Destiny: Alan Waugh, Alchemical Ayahuasca

Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. This is an important week. It is the beginning of the Spring Equinox, which means that the days are not only longer and sunnier, but everything is in a growth spurt, in a connecting to Gaya. The spring Equinox is officially with us. So happy Spring Equinox to you, and that means that you should be bright eye, bushy tail, and ready for action. Whatever that means. Hey, welcome to Destiny. We got a good one this week. I

have been looking for a ayahuasca shaman an awascadero as they're known. Most of them do not speak English very well, and I have talked to a couple of people, and then I ran across a gentleman from England named Alan Francis Waugh, who has written a book Alchemical Ayahuasca. And he is somebody who's worked with Graham Hancock and others quite closely. In fact, he has led shamanic ceremonies with Graham a number of times, and he used to be based

here in northern California. I didn't really know if I haven't used or done an ayahuasca journey that plant medicine. We've talked a great deal about it here on the program, but I wanted to have someone speak not only on journeying with ayahuasca, but I wanted somebody to talk about the mixture, what can be expected when you use ayahuasca, who should use it, who should not use it, because there's some conditions that are not suited for an ayahuasca journey.

And we'll learn about this today. But I mean, we've had recently, we've had Graham Hancock speak on his ayahuasca journeys and his use of it. What I didn't know, and I found this about out from Alan today, is Graham's been using ayahuasca for over twenty years and he started going to Peru in the early two thousands. And it's funny to his wife Santa apparently

also uses ayahuasca. But ayahuasca is a very powerful plant medicine that shifts you out of your conscious awareness and depending on how you intend to use the plant

medicine, journey can bring you into focus on what your goals are. For a lot of people, it's great for health dealing with health issues if you have if you've been given a prognosis of cancer, if you have certain health conditions, this can be in a realignment, not necessarily for a full body healing, but it can put you on a path to healing body, mind, and spirit. And I've heard and I've talked to people who have had deep, deep depression, who have had crisis in their life, tremendous traumas,

either through childhood, a bad relationship, or just in general. They've gone through a trauma and they've gone in a an ayahuasca journey and they've come out much better, much cleaner, much folk, more focused. And this is leading to the whole phenomenon of microdosing these plant medicines. Now I have heard about microdosing ayahuasca. I don't know how in the heck you do that, but I do that. But apparently it's you can under certain conditions.

I have heard of microdosing DMT, cannabis, LSD, and other psychotropic drugs. And here in Northern California it's become a quite a popular way to enhance the creativity to work on depressive states of mind, people who are clinic what they call clinically depressed. And apparently in that case there is some great, great reform. There's also I mean reform from heavy medical medications. But when

it comes to creativity, this is something to look at. Microdosing plant medicines maybe something in that's going to happen in the future, And it's hard to say what the results are because everyone's different. I don't know if Rick Strassman. By the way, Rick Strassman's going to be on the show. He wrote the DMT book almost ten years ago now, and he's actually working on another book on clinical studies of microdosing. But we've had people on this program

speaking on DMT therapy and the benefits of it. So what does the future hold. This is a way to change the brain's chemistry in a more positive manner. Now, controlling the plant medicine's effects is what's really the question. How do we control it if you give somebody, If you give one person a certain dosage of ayahuasca and you give another person the same amount, it's two different reactions. So how do we test for this? We really don't

know. We just don't know. So I mean, this is why Strausman and others who are working with DMT in a clinical setting are really the pioneers on using this more effectively. Now the software. The software whenever you use a psychotropic drug or any type of plant medice that can be like I said, cannabis and I've written extensively about this, LSD, DMT or ayahuasca.

The software, the activating premise, The activating tool is intention, and when you set an intention before going on a journey, you actually open your system, your body, your mind, and your spirit to experiencing an event around that intention. In other words, I want to understand more about my inner

self. Okay, that's the software. You're activating that with ayahuasca, and for the most part, the grandmother, the overseers of the plant medicine are going to tune your journey towards that goal of having more understanding, more healing around that situation. Now, when it comes to chronically ill conditions, this is where the real magic happens, because our brain and our body and our mind set up certain conditions. And some of this can be from previous lifetimes.

In other words, somebody could have chronic illness, could have a form

of cancer. Some of it is passed on from parents, in other words, genetic disposition towards a certain illness, and when you go into a journey, you can realign that and you may not have an immediate withdrawal of a cancer or a rheumatoid arthritis or another degenerative disease, but you can have a realignment of the brain that sets up a healing that sets up a realignment of the cancer as cells, so that it's not your body is not continuing to

produce cancer, it's producing other types of healthier sales. So we have a lot to learn, we have a lot to experience, and on today's program, we're gonna hear from a shaman who has worked with thousands of people on ayahuasca journeys. Before we do that, here's a quick insight from Graham Hancock on what ayahuasca journeying is all about. An Ayawaska journey is complex and difficult

process. First off, the physical effects. Ayahuasca is a beverage. It's a it's it's it's it's a brew, and it's it tastes and it's absolutely disgusting. It is. It is hard to imagine a more horrific and unpleasant taste, and you have to brace yourself physically and mentally before pouring this beverage down your throat. I certainly do. It's very very very hard work. Secondly, within about half an hour to an hour of drinking the brew,

most of us start to feel pretty ill. You're vomiting, you have diarrhea. It's a most physically, a most uncomfortable ordeal that you have to go through before the powerful visionary effects that begin to take place. And those visionary effects typically have two levels, one of them concerned what you might call personal development. You know, in the Amazon, they believe that there is an intelligent spirit that lies behind eawas because they don't think they're dealing with just plants,

and who are we to say they're wrong? That the Shamans believe that an intelligent entity, a spirit being lies behind the aahuasca beverage, and that and that she and they always regard her as a as a female presence, that her business is the planet and the betterment of human beings. Strange idea, huh that that this is? This is what they believe in the Amazon, and they know damnslight more about it than than than we do. Well.

One of the ways this works is that Iahuascar will typically show you your own life in an extremely clear and unconfused way. You know, normally, we protect our own behavior with all sorts of little personal explanations and reasons for why we behave in the way that we do. Iahuascar will show you absolutely, clearly and honestly really why you behaved in the way that you did.

Sometimes you may have been mean or harsh to another person and past that offers absolutely the right thing to do under the circumstances, Iowaska will show you it was the wrong thing to do. It will show you that anger and ego and arrogance and pride in your own personality are not serving you and are not

helpful. And it will keep teaching you these lessons again and again and again, showing you starkly and honestly how you are until you start fixing your behavior and improve the way that you function in the world and work hard to become a less toxic and more positive person. Iahuask has done this for me, and it's done it for countless other people who I know. It's a mystery,

but there it is. It puts you through that psychological process where you actually start examining your own life and asking questions about the way you behave. By the way, if if you want to hear more about Graham's plant medicine journey. He has a book called Visionary that has all the details of his work and his experience on plant medicines. So today's program is al Chemical Ayahuasca take the Journey from Depression to the Sweet Spot, and my guest is Ayahuasca

and Shaman Alan Francis Waugh. We've discussed the ceremonial elixers out there, DMT. We've had doctor Strassman with us, We've had Graham Hancock speaking a great deal about ayahuasca and DMT, but we haven't had what is considered a expert or a shaman on the program. And today we are really fortunate to have an author who is also a shaman who works exclusively with ayahuasca. And it's funny because when we had Graham on the program earlier in the year, one

of my questions was what is the importance of using ayahuasca? And he went into a very long and specific, detailed explanation of not only its benefits, but also what he felt was the use of ayahuasca for an evolutionary journey, not only in getting in touch with your own higher level and other levels of reality, but also how it perhaps evolves us and refines our existence. My guest today is Alan Francis Will. He has written a fascinating book called al

Chemical Ayahuasca, Take the Journey from Depression to the Sweet Spot. And not only does Graham endorse this book, but after reading it, not only is it a personal journey of Alan's youth and through present day activities, but it's

a great introduction to the use of ayahuasca. And this is really really critical because there are a lot of people out there who are discussing and using ayahuasca, and actually there's people who are what they call shamans who use ayahuasca in group setting and they don't necessarily do a good job of it, and this is a problem. So Alan, welcome to Destiny. Great to have you on the program. Yeah, thank you, Cliff, I appreciate you calling

me up to appear on your show. Talk a little bit about Graham. How long ago did you meet with him in sanpa and when did you start working with him on journeying with ayahuasca. Yeah. I met Graham originally about ten years ago, and the way I met him was because I was leading

ceremonies in California, primarily California and Peru. And I have a mutual friend of Graham's son who lives in Los Angeles, and we found out that Graham was coming to LA and my friend, so, would you be willing to lead a ceremony guy Graham and his family, like a family ceremonial evening? And they asked Graham if that's what he wanted, and he said yes,

And so I went down there. My friend has a house in Beverly Hills, and yeah, I showed up, met Graham and I knew what knew of him, of course, you know, being very famous and a brilliant writer. And so I went down there and we did the ceremony, and you know we've been in such ever since. Yeah, amazing. Now you've been trained to prepare your own elixir. I'm just gonna call it. But are there different strains that you can conceive or are they all one formulation and

you just use what you get? Yeah? In my case, I have prepared it. I have sources in Peru and Brazil that I would buy it from, because to get the raw ingredients for I was going, it's very difficult. You know, you need a lot of it to produce a small amount of ayahuascar, so it's very difficult, very expensive to get it shipped from through and it's all you know, because it's a plant material, it at raises red flags. So I would get the mid the ay oscar scent

from relocal sources. And yeah, ayahuascar does come in a variety of different forms, as there are different types of ayauscar, primarily four different types. But it's also the ad mixture, so ayasca generally comes most famously comes with the ayahuascar vine, So it's a vine that creeps around a tree, and it's a plant that contains d MT. Right, and the most famously and most commonly used plant is Chakruna psychatry O verridis, But there's also a variety

of different admixtures. Chaliponga is another one that's used. So the effects of it will be different. And having said that the effects of the same eyeuasca will be different from night to night, the effects of the eyeuascar are different according to who made it, at what time they picked the eyeuasca cut the eye oscar, at what time they picked the leaf, more specifically the leaf, because the chemistry of the leth will change throughout the course of the day.

So typically it's picked the female leaf is picked before you know, just around sunrise, and then that's not done. The effects will be different. And also you know how it's made, the reverence that it's made. I recently, in the last sort of three years, actually get We've been getting my medicine from Brazil through the Santa Dimie Church in Brazil, and it's the sweetest medicine I've ever had, and they pray over it for three days.

The men and the women are praying and singing and playing music for three whole days over that medicine, and you can really tell it's the most beautiful brew I think I've ever experienced. You know, now you're in Ecuador. Does it grow on Ecuador or do you have to get the plant in the medicine in Brazil. No, it grows in the Amazon, so that we have the Amazon here in Ecuador. So it's interestingly enough, I still use the

Brazilian medicine here because it is so beautiful. Unfortunately, I just ordered a bunch and it didn't make it. It was destroyed by customs, So I'm going to have to do my own sort of journey into Brazil to get it. You know, there's there's a variety of different types of medicine here depending on the tribe that's making it. They have their own processes in making it and distilling. But one of the fascinating things about ayahuasca your listeners might be

interested to hear, is how did it come about? You know, so there's a view that it's been around for you know, least ten thousand years is and it's two very definitely distinct plants. One is ayahuascar the vine which ayahuscar translates with the wine of the soul in Quechua, and chakruna, which is the most commonly used what's known as an admixture. But you know,

they're very distinct to each other. How did somebody choose these two plants from you know, the corner copia of one hundred thousand plants that are in the Amazon jungle macerate the vine. You know, you can press the leaves, add them to a big pot of boiling water and boil it for eight hours, stirring and preying over it, wait for it to cool, and then drink it. So that's the mystery of it, and tribes we're doing that

throughout the Amazon jungle without contact with each other. So that's a fascinating aspect of it. It's it's pretty obvious that the plant themselves told the shamans that lived in those environments. You know. Graham feels that there's a some kind of a consciousness that is the ayahuasca. I think it's kind of an entity, is what he suggests it is. What do you say about that? Would do you say that there is a consciousness that is developed or is it

just there? And this brew intensifies it. The Brew allows you to access that consciousness. So there is a conscioussciousness. There's there is a shamanism or animism. More broadly, it has a belief that everything is alive, everything has consciousness. So you know, the ancient challenge would say yes, it has consciousness because it's it's something. You know, the rocks have consciousness,

the clouds have consciousness. To access the consciousness and the vibratory state that ayahuascar will will share with you, you know, combined with the other plants, can can only really be at access through drinking it. I mean you can, you can you can feel it. You can hold a piece of oyosco bind and at some level engage with it, but you're not going to have the profound experiences that you will once you've drunk it in the ceremony. And

again the ceremony is a bit important part of drinking ayahuascar. To drink it just you know, like at burning Man, which a lot of people have started doing, is a very different experience of doing it in a in a sort of very highly you know, train with a highly trained person who really knows how to maneuver that landscape. And so my terms of consciousness, Hihoscar is my greatest teacher. You know, I have had many human teachers of

shamanism. In the ninety five, I think I started learning Ayauascar has given me my deep training that I used to help other people to receive the benefits of ayahuasca without drinking it. So I offer healing work you incorporating a lot of the wisdom and the deep teachings of healing so that other people don't need to drink ayahuasca. So I've learned all that from a lot of that from Ayahuascar. It's herself. I think about that a little bit later that the

according to you, you don't really needed to use ayahuasca. There's techniques that you can what would you say, access the higher levels of consciousness that are that are part of that journey or how would you describe what you've discovered. Yeah, well, there's a beautiful quote that in a way it was life changing for me that was attributed to Einstein, Albert Einstein, which says, you probably know it. You can't solve a problem with the same level of

consciousiness that created it in the first place. So one of the things that is that people seek how Eyewa's goer. Now you know, this has become very common. I think I've read recently two million people in the world have now drunk eye what's going to including the indigenous, So it's spread fore and wide. Why do people need to drink eywascar because there's some way in the life that they haven't been able to transcend or transform issues that they have.

Some people are doing it just for the experience and for a badge of honor because they're friends of all doing it. Most people that receive deep healing are doing it with a uh, you know, graceful intention to have some transformation, transcendent, transcendent experience that will give them opportunities to change something in their life they haven't been not to be able to up to this point. And because it's not it's not for the fainthearted, you know, you really have

to be prepared for this experience mentally and emotionally. And so the spirit of the plant, it's it's a mystery how it works, but the spirit of the plant will help you to He'll help you to transform and transcend, you know, energetic conditions that are cause you used to stay in a sort of more repressed version of yourself. And so Aauoscar has shown me how I can help people to do that, because you've probably heard that with the Ayahuascar,

there's a big purging process involved in great detail. Yeah. Yeah, So a lot of people are put off by the thought of doing that, but it's actually you know a big part of the process. What's happening in as you purge, is that you're releasing physical poisons. You're releasing mental emotional poisons and toxins. It's also antibacterial, so parasitic and anti paralyitical, so you release a lot of that stuff, a lot of it, some of it is physical, some of it is mental, some of it is spiritual,

so you have your purge and all this stuff out. You can't do that without the likes of ayahuasca, except you can do it now because she has shown me how to help people to do that. I do the sucking. I suck out those densities that otherwise you would have to purge with ayahuascar. So she showed me how to do that. So that's that's how people can receive the benefits of ayahuascar without necessarily even having to drink her. We're going

to talk about that towards the end. Let me just mention that you have Chris calm as a somebody who's endorsing the book. Has anyone looked at ayahuasca from the purging what that means? What's being purged to it's I mean scientifically tested. I think a Grossman did DMT in a great deal of strassman excuse me, uh, to a great deal. But has anyone done, to your knowledge, any great studies in ayahuascar yet? Uh, they are doing

great studies on ayahuascar. Yeah, they're they're actually the Santadmi in Brazil that they sort of have done a lot of data collecting through psychologists and botanists to really understand what's happening. There's there's a big church movement in the hotel, so that they've been looking at it, and more recently Western scholars and scientists have been looking at it so that they're doing you know, like ekg's and things like that to see what actually happens to the brain on Ayahuascar. You

know, my my own personal relationship to Ayauscar is very non scientific. You know, I don't really care about data. I I you know a lot in the facts. It's really hard to explain what what the full process is. You know, the post is a big part of it, as I mentioned, And when you've actually gone through this process of purging, it's very much coordinated to things that you know, you're you're seeing your or you're experiencing in your body, and you know you reject it in the form of vomit,

diarrhea, tears, laughter, crying, yawning. There's there's many different ways that you do post. The most commonly known ways are through the upper orifice and the orifice and it's always allays. I always do so ingratitude and thank you grandmother. Now no, now, now I can choose my moment when I purge, really, I don't want to, especially if I'm leading ceremony. I tend not to purge in ceremony. I tend to wait until after the ceremony is over. So I said, say not not not the

grandmother, thank you, thank you. So it's a very you know, close connection. You know, if you drink a lot, she's she becomes a really valued friend and counselor your subtitle, Take the Journey from Depression to the sweet Spot is a look at your life as a young person into your adulthood. Let's talk about that. You open the book discussing a life of

depression, self hate, and just not being a very happy person. These challenges are self destructive to a great deal, but you seem to have an awareness, and I want you to talk a little bit about this as a young person, that you don't have to stay in this problem. You can move beyond it. Talk a little bit about that. Yeah, okay, Well, you know, the book starts when I'm twenty eight years old,

and it was the day that i wanted to kill myself. I was chronically depressed and I saw no, you know, no future joy for me in my life. Up to that based on the last previous twelve years of my life. And so there's two factors that why I chose to move out of that or was able to move out of that depressive state. I knew at some point I was able to move out of it. The first thing that

really changed my relationship to my own awareness personal awareness. Growing up in a very sort of Christian family, taught by nuns in grade school and monks in high school. I was very much blinkered by the Christian sort of indoctrination, and so I wasn't even allowed to question reality outside of Christian or of belief systems, and that was part of the reason for my depression. Actually,

you know that that's another is moved about that in the book. But so what I started doing is I started taking ALSD when I was about seventeen, and I me and my friends would do it really just a sort of as a party drug, you know, we just go around friend's houses and take LST sort of a lot of the weekends of the year. And I started realizing very quickly, well, there's a whole different reality out there was another the reality that I had been taught by the Christian monks, and the priests

excuse me. And so that was one thing. I started to becoming a critical thinker as a result of that, and I had a more expanded view of who God was. And it didn't actually help me to lose my depressive states, but in some ways it actually took me deeper into depression. I became much more insular and introverted. I couldn't in a ways decide see for me, was really difficult to maneuver, and I became quite a loner. And so I decided to stop taking the age of about twenty one, I

started taking Steve. I started pretty soon after that. I have what I thought was flashbacks or meditation experiences where I was just started at will. I could enter this portal with my mind where I could journey to other realities and out into the cosmos and fly past planets and things like that, And so I thought it was part of growing up. I didn't talk. There's somebody

that didn't talk about what was going on with me. I had learned to do that in my family, to not really talk about my feelings, et cetera. I didn't talk about it. I just thought I was meditating. I thought it's just cool, you know, so I do it. I'm just meding if i'd go and I realized, you know, I found out later that that was shamanic journey. So that's kind of why I started on the path of shamanism as a result of those elicited experiences. But the other

thing is that day when I was twenty eight years old. I write about this in the book I was done though, I had enough of this life. And then a voice spoke out of nowhere and said to me, do you want to live or do you want to die? And I was like, who's that? I was just sitting on the floor in my apartment on my own, sort of with waves of depression flowing through me, and I've

always said do you want to live or do you want to die? And I was like, well, I want to die obviously, and he said again, I'll ask you again, do you want to live or do you want to die? And at that point, not as did he use the words, he actually showed me how to connect with a place deep with inside myself, my heart. And so I started to look at it from a place of much more expanded state, other than this fixed view that life was hopeless, and I would never be anything other than worthless. Well, I

connected to my heart and he showed me how to do that. And it's from that place of gentleness and more expanded relationship to myself. I said, I want to live. I want to live, But how do I do that? Yeah? And I'm curious because, yeah, this, this voice in your head, who you eventually learned was Amantain is a mont A Montony yea today. Okay, Yeah, he's very prominent in the in the book. And I have to say this, and I've been in this metaphysical field

for over thirty years. For this voice to come through not only saved you in many ways, but talk about where he came from. Is he considered a guide? Is he your higher self? He's very prominent in your life, and I imagine he still is. Yeah, he is. You know, in fact, a couple of years ago he told me to buy bitcoin. But yeah, he Uh. That's the thing. When when I heard that voice that first time, It's a voice I've never heard before, and I did believe, I did believe in angels, and I was like,

well, it's an angel, it's my guardian angel. And so I listened to him, and you know, that time, I said to myself, I don't know who this voice is. Is it an angel? Is it is it? Is it my higher self? Is it coming from within me? And I just you know, I said, it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter who he is, as long as I know that he's here to

help me. And I know that he's a he is a I mean, he could be an angel, but he's he is a. It comes from outside of my own conscious awareness, and I believe that he's my connection to the divine realms. And he only shows up really other than the Bitcoin thing, when when I really need him to guide me on on a big sort of a big thing, like I'm Dan in Ecuador living in Ecuador now because of him and U so I say this in the book. Actually I don't

get bobbed down by the details. You know. I know he's a guiding force and he's always there to to help me in a positive way. He's never said or done anything that I doubted was not for my highest good. Yeah, it's it's wonderful because he is the one that said you want to live or you want to die? And then I want you to start. I want you to talk about your journey to India, because out of the blue, he's basically saying, get the hell out of England and discover another

community. Talk about your time in India and how that kind of expanded your awareness. Yeah, I, well, so I Manson, I said, well, how do I how do I live? You know, I'm so unhappy, he said, I'm going to tell you. He said, well, and the first thing you said was you've got to leave England. You've got to leave your home environment. This place is too oppressive for you.

And because I was a critical thinker and I developed you know, awareness, I developed awareness of the way that the British society was controlled from the you know, the upper class, and it's very oppressive. And I knew that if I stayed under that oppressive sort of baggage for my culture, I would I probably wouldn't be able to change. Well, he knew that, so he told me get out of England and you're going to go on a journey for eighteen months. And I just went, yes, okay, you know,

just completely trusting it is. This is not me, what's going on? I just said yes, And I'm willing to give up my somewhat safe environment, you know, I was sort of physically safe. I just wasn't didn't feel safe inside of myself. But I just said yes to what, you know, to that I knew I had to do it. And three months later I was on the road and I knew that I was going to start in India. He didn't say where to go, he just said, you're going to leave England. I knew. But I knew instinctively that I

was starting in India. And I'd already sort of started, you know, getting interested in Buddhism. And I knew that, oh, there's a place where spirituality depens. I need to start there. And I so I did. I embarked on an eighteen month journey, he said, eighteen months. I went for eighteen months to the week before I returned to England. So India, Yeah, what can you say about India. It's a small gas

board of you know, belief systems and cultures and languages. And I just so happened, coincidentally, right, happened to land in India at the time of the cumber Mela in Hardware, which is the largest spiritual festival in the in the world. It goes on for a couple of months and they reckon. About one hundred and fifty million people show up during that period, and one hundred and fifty million Indians is equivalent to about five hundred million Americans.

You know, they sort of can squeeze into, you know, a smaller space. But so I went there and it's like, wow, what a thing to I didn't know about it. So I arrived in India and somebody said, oh, you're going to the Cumbermela is, Oh, what's that? What? What the thing to show up for? That? It was, you know, the timing couldn't have been better cut it. And so it's the largest spiritual festival in the world. So and people from all over

over India and spiritual sekerts from all over the world are there. So they all came to me. I didn't even need to travel around Inja to have I want to ask you, Alan, I want to ask you you were guided to go to Anya this high spiritual a period. Yeah, did you connect with any of these, uh, these guru sieges or the tens of thousands of spiritual seekers who were there. Did you go to any of the ceremonies. You don't really describe that in the book. Yeah, I don't

so much. Yeah, I would interact with I didn't get I didn't go to an astron aim or like a month longer treat or anything like that. That was so far out of my you know, but I would communicate with There's a lot of sadous. Sadoos are the holy men. A lot of the time there they're naked. Even then they smoke chillims which are filled with hashi So I got as somebody who did smoke hashi's at that point. I would sit with them, you know, and communicate with them a lot and

spoken you know, faltering English, or they'd be people they're translating. So I'd hang out with these people, and it's like so far removed from anything I'd ever experienced in my life. Sitting by the banks of the Ganges with

millions of people walking by it, It's only opened my mind. So I did engage with people and talk awesome about their lives where they gave up, you know, just some normal life and decided to embark on their life as Sadu's traveling traveling around injur on foot, typically you know, with nothing, no no material could whatsoever. You know, They've often naked, so from From that eighteen month journey, you came back to England and then you took

off again. You began going to Tibet, in Peru, South America. Talk a little bit about this traveling journey. It's almost like you were on a spiritual, a spiritual journey, right. Well, actually, so I

was eighteen months in in Asia and I actually that trip I did. I did go to t Better as well, which is probably the most powerful country spiritually that I embarked, and probably the most life changing experience was my time into About And then I came back to England and what was in what was fascinating for me, and I had all these incredible adventures and this is something I hadn't realized when I was living in England, but when I got back

it was really hit me in the face. People don't ask questions, you know. So I had these incredible experiences and nobody asked me about it, and you know, and that in that period I also give an up drinking alcohol and eating meat. So you know, in England, if you don't go to a pub, you really don't get to meet people, you know. And because I wouldn't, I didn't eat meat. I had to pick too, was where I ate in England, and so I sort of had to find new friends. You know, the friends that I had, you

know, I sort of a way historic friends. They just were so different and I was so so different from them, shall I say? I had to find friends that I could actually feel more comfortable with. And it was pretty clear to me that I had to keep traveling, and so I decided

to go to South America to explore that land. And that's really the country that I, or say the I went to Peru a couple of times in that trip, and it's the country that I traveled to most in when I following that experience in South America, I ended up living in San Francisco for twenty five years, surprisingly and you know, the US for about thirty two years before moving down here. But I still, you know, perub was

very important country to me, even though I moved to Ecuador. But then you took another turn and you became a hospice worker at the Zen Hospice Project here in San Francisco during the a's epidemic. What a very difficult time to be working. And I remember I had a number of friends pass away from

from a's or as related illnesses. So talk about why why would you do that, Alan, Why would you commit yourself to be a hospice worker one of the most I mean, I'm sure there's satisfaction, but that's to start off, must have been shocking. It's devastating. So I arrived in San Francisco kind of like at the beginning of the the age crisis or the way it was speaking. And uh, my first boss was gay, and you know, I was in construction work. He was gay and always friends.

He's like, I've got three friends left way and I did. And he became my landlord and in his house at of gay gay guys living there. So they became my friends, you know, my community. And even though I'm not gay myself, you know, I really loved them, you know, and we're really close. And I wanted to give back to San Francisco. I wanted to give back to my gay friends for welcoming me in and

and just accepting me as a straight man and respecting me for that. And so I started off actually delivering meals with Project Open Hand that you probably know. And so they that started during the Age Crisis and in the mid eighties, and they delivered meals. It started off delivering meals to people with age that were home bound, and then they expanded to anybody that was homebound deliver

meals. An amazing organization. And then I realized at some point I wanted to have more you know, interpersonal relationship because with project open hand, sometimes times I just leave the food on the doorstep and you know, ring the bell, engage with the people I was living to. Another part of it is that I mentioned about Tibet. When I was in Tibet, I became really interested in Buddhism, and the central teaching of Buddhism is the practices of

wisdom and compassion. If you want to be happy from the Tibetan standpoint, all you have to do is practice wisdom and compassion and you'll learn the path to happiness. And so I was practicing Buddhist and I knew that I needed to be more compassionate and I wanted to and part of my practice, my spiritual practice, was you know, to help people in the compassionate way.

And so I couldn't think of anything better than working at the Zen Hospice to you know, to help with my own personal practice of compassion but also to help the community that had sort kind of taken me in so kindly. We're going to come back today. I work with them for twenty years. Wow. We're going to come back to that theme a little bit later when you're

starting to work with ayahuasca. We're going to take a short period to allow our sponsors to identify themselves and we will return quickly with my guest today, Alan Francis wis coming to us from Ecuador and his new book, al Chemical Ayahuasca. We will be right back. My guest this week is Alan Francis.

While he is a Ayahuascan shaman, he has written a new book called al Chemical Ayahuasca, based on his life, his evolving consciousness, and the use of plant medicines to heal not only himself but thousands of others who have taken Ayahuascan journeys. In his retreats, you write that in the early two thousands you were introduced to ayahuasca in Peru. Did you I think you were with your girlfriend and you were I guess seeking it out. Talk a little

bit about your first introduction to it and that experience. Okay, yeah, me and my actually shoes, my wife me and my wife, first wife, we wanted to We love to travel, so we traveled a lot, and we wanted to spend time living somewhere. Because Peru was so close to my heart. I've been in many times, I wanted to suggested we went

there. So we went there for six months to do volunteer work and to get you know, learn the language and to understand the people, to explore the shamanic hubs audience in shamanism at that point, so into you know, explore the shamanic world. I'd also just prior to going to Peru, developed tenaitis in my left ear was very loud, ringing and deafness, and I was freaking me out. So I thought, well, while I'm in Peru,

I'm going to seek out a sharman. I hadn't actually done any research about iowa'sco I'd heard about its starting to get a gain popularity, and I was, you know, studying shamanism in the Bay areas fan Fisco Bay with Michael Hahna, who was kind of the grandfather of the modern shamanism movement, who just happened to live, you know, just across the Golden Gay Bridge for me, and so I started to hear about ayahuasca and I thought, well, I'm in Peru, you know, I've got to try. So

I I was very carefu about finding somebody you can. You know, there's a lot of people out there that are putting themselves out there as eye was sca aros, the same way as they are in you know, the United States and elsewhere. But you really got feeling out because you don't want to trust that type of experience of somebody that you don't feel safe with. So I found so unfortunately, I found somebody through a friend and I started started

on that journey. And the first time I drank ahiahuasca, I didn't know what I was opening up. You know, I was going to actually be the path of a big part of my life from from that point on. And so, you know, it's a very powerful teaching, as it is for a lot of people who drink hihosca. They changed their lives in a drastic way. You actually also were connected and sought out other Aluascar darrows in not only in Peru, but in other parts of the of South America.

And these in the some of the top names or many of them are passed on Why did you feel the need to visit with them? Did you have a sense that at some point you wanted to be a shaman of the of the Sacred Plant. Yeah, So that first journey down to Peru, I came back from that having had the most incredible experiences of my life. I couldn't you can't really describe. But the tonight wasn't healed, but something else happened. And I talk about this in the book where my first night back

at the hospice, some of you just died. I was sitting by his bed and I saw his I saw smoke leaving what looked like smoke or sort of like a gray amorphous cloud, and he's coming out of his ears and his mouth and his nose. And I was like, you know, well, what's going on here? And I remember saying the words something's different, isn't it, and that I'm unto name my spirit. Guy said, yes it is. You're a healer. This is your path for the rest of

your life. And those words fundamentally and radically changed my life. You're a healer. This is your path for the rest of your life. So imagine the beautiful thing about him. He says things exactly the way that you need to hear it. But he'll only say it when you're ready to hear it. And I knew that I was ready to hear that because I just said, yes, that's right. And I came from home from the hospice shift, and I told my wife what had happened, and she suggested I go

back to Peru. But I knew with his words very percent member. He speaks very precisely, and I knew that you are a healer. So I was a healer, that I was a healer, and so I started to call people up, friends up, do you want to come around I do healing work? And I started doing healing work without just by laying my hands on and you know, using a rattle and stuff like that that I learned in my shamanic training, and people had these most profound experiences. So I

knew I needed to deep in it. So I went to back to pre prough and over the years studied with many different sort of high level practitioners. Because I that's my style. I tend to sort of choose things that are the best, the best of the best in all the trainings that I've had, and one of the things that can really help the western the westerner.

And so I now I've developed sort of what I call a fusion of techniques, which includes some some includes high Oscar, some include shamanism, some includes you know, mind body techniques, et cetera. But I Oscar's being the guiding force throughout all of those years. And so I saw people that I was recommended to that I usually check this guy out, and you know, I'm very adventurous. So I go sort of like the down river for a couple of days to you know, find some some village you know where,

Oh hello, do you know where don the CEO is? And and uh, you know, and they're always welcoming. Now there was you know, they're away. That's what they're you know, they Arewaskaias, and so they would take me under their wing. Yeah. So you have a lot of really really great experience, and as you say, you developed your own style.

Would you say that when you are in this altered state of consciousness, you have been get any reference to past lives coming together to make you this healer, make you this shaman that you can discuss because this is something that I don't really hear a great deal about from awascaderos who are noted is the fact that they were incarnated in body in this time period to do this work. Yeah, yes, very much. So I know that I was,

I have been a heater through many lifetimes. I know that at some point I lived in Peru, and I also know at some point I lived in Tibet, and so I've sort in a ways that's why I've been so attracted to Tibetan Buddhism and Ayahuascar Shamanism. There was something that I outside of myself that kind of drew me to those areas. Why I chose Indura and Tibet, and why I've been so drawn to Peru, and you know the healing

techniques down there. So yeah, there's something outside of myself. I can't necessarily, I don't necessarily identify their lives, but I know that I have been connected to that. But on ayahuasca, what you do is you you look back on your life. It shows it's sort of in a way illuminate certain circumstances of your life that have brought you to this place where you're looking for healing. And so as it brings it to the surface, it allows

it to be healed. But there's also this stream of consciousness that is that you know is going way back in time that it's brought into that you know, say, purging opportunity. You're not just when you're pershing. You know that you're pershing from not from the depths if your soul, which also incorporates previous lifetimes, you don't necessarily identify the previous lifetime. So although you can, that can be your experience, but you know that something bigger than you

is happening. And that's what ayahuasca can can provide for you in such a powerful way and why it's become so popular. I want to get into some stories of people being healed in the specific illnesses. But before we do that, let's talk about a section of your book where you are talking about working with ayahuasca in the sitting. Talk about the I call um the four.

It's probably more than four prerequisite, So I'm just going to use that word diet, intention, finding the right shaman, and number four, which was I thought was really good, Have no expectation. I'll I gave you a lot to chew on. Alan. Let's start with preparing for the ceremony. Yeah, preparing for the ceremony, well, I mean it goes, it goes, but way before, way before the actual ceremony starts. The fact that you go on the internet you think, I want to find an eye

what's good retreat in you know, the jungle in Peru or Ecuador. That the healing started at that point, you know, because you have made a decision in your life to change your life. That's massive, to do something that's scary, that's unknown, that's not part of your cultural reference, that's massive. And so the healing starts as you should when you sit turn the

computer on to do that. But there's also the preparation before ceremony, and that is I just have to say, when you find a place in you know, say Peru, which is very common, you know, you have to use due diligence. You know, you look at the references and find you know, find out from people that have been there how they felt about it. You know, because just this it's on the internet, doesn't mean it s necesarily going to be the best place for you. But then there's

the dietary thing. Now that the diet is sort of in a way controversial because some cultures they use specific diets and some don't. Each individual retreat center has their own specific diet in Peru, and some of the experts I've had some some for example, when I first started drinking Iowa Osca, the Maestro Pedro, he didn't say anything about diet. The whole time that I went with him, he didn't say anything. So it is sort of controversial what

exactly is a specific diet. There's a general overview that it should be things that don't sort of stimulate your body, like salt and oils and certain foods like pork and things like that, taboo and alcohol and coffee. Part of the diet is also not to put anything in your body that overstimulates sort of like your kidneys, such as horror films or death metal music and things like that. So things you know that don't overstimulate your body very very simple for

the body to absorb. And also not putting things like listening to the news or you know, things that are putting fear base of manipulative belief systems into your sort of consciousness. So that's all part of it. My own sort of relationship to diet is that you're doing as much for anything else as an offering of reciprocity to ayahuasca. In other words, I'm serious about this. I'm I am giving up all these things that I get stimulated by, and

I'm sort of, you know, bringing bringing things down to basics. Partly because you want to pay your body, but partly it is an offering to oscar is a reciprocal offering. And also because ayahuascar or the spirit, well they don't have it doesn't have sensors, doesn't have ego. So what you're taking out of your diet things that stimulate the same answers. So you're what you're doing is you're really aligning yourself as best you can with the experience of

the spirit not having senses. And so it's that sort of beautiful, prayerful way of creating sacred space within yourself before you actually embark on the ayahuasca experience. Whether it actually benefits your experience or not, it's debatable whether your experience will be stronger with those things or without them. It's debatable. As I said, when I strength ayahuasca, I didn't know anything about diet or just

living life as normal and very powerful ceremonies that changed my life. But it's a good practice because you're you're preparing yourself for what is potentially a life changing experience, so you might as well change your life before you drink. So I don't want to as as a leader alan as an owascadero yourself. I mean, are you saying, don't eat meat for a week, don't drink any booze for a week prior to the ceremony? What are you personally? Yeah? Again, I tend. I tend to my time frame. So

here's another thing. In the jungle, it's a lot easier to follow the diet because they don't have access to a lot of the things that we have in the West. So it's a lot easier to follow the diet. You're you know, you're, I say, on a retreat and they're giving you the food that you need to eat. In the West, we have access to a lot more and it's a lot harder to fulfill the diet. So I want people to feel like they're failing or I failed. It's all going

to be a miserable failure the thing. So I tend to sort of like rain it in to to be much more doable. So I tend to take three days before three days after the things that that includes like orgasm. The things that need to be longer for medical reasons are SSR rise and you know, certain anti psychotic medicines and things like that needs to be for a month because it's still in your system and you know, there's there is some proof

that there's a contra indicative possibility if you mix those pharmaceuticals with eyahuasca. It's not guaranteed that anything bad would happen to you, but it might happen, and so it's always done, as you know, a precautionary measure, and that the one that people are most strict about is is the SSRIs. To not have the SSRIs for a month prior to drinking oscar. You really have to contact the retreat center as to what they what they recommend or you know,

I'm taking this medication. Is that like for example, for anti thyroid medication, I tend to be okay with that. I tend to be okay with with the insulin and things like that, and also like the inhalers for asthma. You know, so certain things that I found to be okay. But there's also a lot of information on the internet about that. But it's always best to verify that with whoever you're going to drink eyewascar with and a lot. In Peru, it's it's quite well set up that I'm more familiar

with doing ceremony. They usually have like a protocol that you have to follow. Okay, fascinating. Let's talk about some of your clients, and you can also give examples from other ceremonies you've been in. If somebody comes in has a health issue, pain, arthritis, and on the high end of

the scale, cancer, what do you think ayahuasca does for that. Obviously, if someone comes down to a ceremony and they're talking to the shaman and saying, I would like to have some relief from this condition, one of the big things I would think is going to the shaman's going to say is Okay, you have to intentionally prepare for this. You have to intend to get relief. What are the benefits of using ayahuaska? Yeah, Well,

the intention is important because it kind of drives drives the energy. I just talk about intention a little bit. That you know, when you do a ceremony or come to me for a healing session, it's always important to have an intention because intention in a way sort of like directs the energy. And it also is like a funnel of energy. It sends the energy in a much more concentrated way towards it towards your own process. And so it's good

to have a strong, strong intention, but a narrow intention. I mean like, oh, I just want to feel better. Really, isn't isn't good enough? You know what? What's preventing you from feeling better? Focus on let's focus on that. I want to release my self hatred. How about that? That's much more focus, but self hatred that there's there's many layers about why you experienced self hatred. Like when I was depressed, I had self hatred. There were many layers of why I had self hatred,

including my culture and the religion I was indoctrinated. With no offense to Christians. You know, I love it now, but at the time I didn't. And so that's what I work. And I might see asked questions from people have a session with me, but I ASO, you just set your intention there. Sometimes the maestro or the maestro I also go ask you more, but often they don't, you know, because sometimes there's like groups of fifty people, you know, they don't have time you're going with an intention.

The intentions also hopefully helpful if you're having a really hard time, come back to the intention. In a sense, it helps both to calm you down and it also helps to drive the energy down to where you need it and out of your head. So that's really important. And so what was the other part of the question. Sorry, well, I mean, can you give some examples of people who have had healings both psychological and physical, or if you can remember or having an example of a spiritual healing. I'd

like to hear that as well. Yeah, yeah, I mean my own healings are polity ones are most familiar. You're pretty amazing just by yourself, You're right. Yeah. So but the thing is, let's talk about cancer. So there's two things that you can work with on cancer. One is the physical condition. One is the mental, emotional spiritual conditions. That is the cause of the originating cancer cells germinating and reproducing. So they're going to

work on the physical They're going to help you with that. So there's two types of Iowa scaros. There's one that I was scaros that that's what they do, they work with I was they say that I Oscar can hear eighty percent of all conditions, and then there's the hit Listas betailistas are like herbalists.

They use Ayeauascar to identify the plants they need to give you for that condition, and so they believe that approximately I can help to heal twenty percent of conditions and that the other herbs that Iosco identifies for you that you need will cure the other eighty percent. So there's two different ways of going in with it. But ultimately, all plants are spirits. All plants have consciousness, so they're mixing THEA lists, are mixing the different spiritual energies, and

also the chemistry of the biology of the plants is helping. The eyeball scare is going to be working more with the mental, emotional, spiritual component that is behind the condition. You know this. You hear about IOSCA sorry cancer having a personality, So people with the personality type that's more likely to get cancer, and that is hopelessness and helplessness. You have a sense of helplessness

and hopelessness. I actually listened to a podcast from yours the other day with the home who was saying that the cancer personality is somebody who is more likely just to agree with everything you know to I can't say no, and that there will be there will be the rescuer to help you, and you believe everything they're told that that's the cancer personality he's identified. The one I've identified is somebody that has a sense of hopelessness and helplessness and so they develop cancer.

So the the iao oscar will focus on whatever, whether it's somebody who's who can't say no, or whether it's somebody that feels helpless and hopeless, the hio oscar will go to the root cause of what's causing the cancer. The you know, not feeling worthy to be loved. It's so common, I'm not I'm not worthy to be loved. So at some point in your life you develop cancer for two reasons. One because you would you're going to learn more in the spiritual plane. Or two you need the cancer to learn

how to to feel worthy to be loved. And during your cancer for you to actually embark on this process of curing your cancer, what you have to go through mentally, emotionally, psychologic, psychologically, you have to develop deep self love and self reverence to go through that to survive. So you're learning how to love yourself, and that is the primary love that you need to experience to feel worthy to be loved, is the love you have with yourself.

So that's a beautiful way that you grow that people grow from from cancer. It's like, well, now I love myself. I can do so much more than I've realized I could. I can live my life in a completely different way to somebody like I was when I was twenty eight and prior to that, who just felt he needed to hide himself away and not be seen, you know. And so it's fat I like your analogy of cleaning

the mind. That is the I don't know if you want to say a tractor, but one of the major major causations for a cancer setting into someone and and to get an eighty percent clearing of that, then I guess it allows the body to begin healing. See that right right there, that that would be a great area to study to see what people how people heal. Sure, And that's what that's what I work on primarily, that part of

it. And as I tell some people, is you know, the when the depth of healing is stronger than the cause of ill health, you embark on a path of healing. When the depth of healing is stronger than the cause of ill health, you embark on a part of healing. That's what that's what I help people do to to allow their body to enter that state that is stronger than the cause of ill health. Then they heal, and people heal very quickly. That's the thing with Sharmanism. It's been around for

one hundred thousand years because it works. You know, the back our ancestors that were being you know, struggling to survive with all these you know, saber tooth tigers, chasing tigers chasing around them and you know, killing their kids. They didn't have time to sit around in and ice you. They had to heal really quickly. And Sharman's and develop form that need to heal

quickly. So you know, I OSCAR will help you to heal quickly, possibly if you do what's required to integrate the process or the benefits of yah OSCAR in my session, I tend to want to see people three times, but the path of healing tends to become stronger than course health in the in

the first session. And with cancer, if you start to heal somebody with cancer, you tend to it tends to cancer will read generate less uh cancer cells over time, so that but you know, so you may not recover immediately, but you will recover in the long term, hopefully as the cancer

cells regenerate in a healthy state. Interesting. One of the things that Graham Hancock talks about is that he was needed a creative push and he had never written fiction before, and through an ayahuasca journey, he was told and actually given the data. He actually downloaded data to write a series of nonfiction books, and he was very surprised at that. Can you talk a little bit

about how one would go about doing that? I guess you would intend to have a creative input, But you actually talk about the Akashak records the Akashak field in your book a little bit. Do you think that's what is happening with that kind of a request, is that you're going up and you are tapping into this universal database. Yeah, you know, I believe that there was a unified field of consciousness and that everything has already been written and it's

accessible in that field. Graham Graham being a very prolific experience writer, that's his focus. So he's he's he's more likely to focus on that than somebody that's never written, so he's more like he's to receive that information, but that that information every there's a view that everything that will ever be written has already been written. And I know that when I was writing my book, I was putting information out. You know, I didn't have a journal that

I was putting that information from. I was just getting it from memory, memory, memory, memories coming back, and you know, like how I could best serve people with this book as somebody who's never written a book before. It was kind of like presented to me from that field, you know, And because I had the interest, that's what we're focused was a lot of people, you know, that are into UFOs are more likely to have

extraterrestrial type experiences. People that are into much more sort, let's say Christianity, are much more likely to have transcendent experiences related to Christianity and meet angels and Jesus and things like that. So a lot of it depends how you go into the ceremony. You know, you can have your head completely blown open like a lot of people that go in to ceremony. The atheists, I don't believe in superior power, will experience a superior power and have their

life forever changed. I liken it to you know, ND experiences like the near death experiences a lot of people. Once they die, they enter in a way that unified field of consciousness and they connect with the more divine you know, experience of reality. Their life is forever change. Then they stopped believing in God and in a state until they had the experience that they would never believe, you know, their mind wouldn't allow them to believe anything other

than what they you know, they believed. So yeah, I think a lot of it is to do with how you going to the ceremony and what your belief systems are. The book is al chemical ayahuasca. My guest today has been Alan Francis wis Uh. You just brought up an interesting point, Alan, You said, people who are interested in UFOs or ets have some form of contact. Is that something that you've experienced yourself? Or have you been in a ceremony where somebody has an experience of speaking with an et?

Yeah, you know, people do experience communication with uh strange strange creatures and humans or humanoids or you know, unusual visual experiences of vibratory symmetry or something that that reminds them or takes into to the belief that they're communicating with people not just from otherwise but other other dimensional realities. I having lived in Mount Schester for seven years, I've seen a lot of UFO activity is very real

there. You do see that. And I have a belief in in, you know, the fact that we're in a universe that is full of life, and whether it's in the three dimensional way that we perceive it or whether it's in under the multi dimensional states. I tend to engage more in those other states of consciousness in my experiences. So I'm engaging with you know, animals or anthropomorphic shapes part animal, part human that you know, give me

teas or actually do healing work on me. So I do that. So yeah, I mean I've heard the whole sort of range of experiences with people with extraterrestrials, with the grays, the reptilians, and angels, benevolent and

both benevolent and malevolent entities or energies. As we conclude, would you say that, I mean, you talked about a lot of your workers with healing, because that's what you are, and you've acknowledge that you're a healer, so you're probably going to get clients that are looking for mental, spiritual, and physical healing. But if someone is interested in perhaps bringing through a new device, a new book, a new movie, or something like that,

is ayahuasca a good tool for that type of creativity? Yeah. A lot of people have written books, have created films as a result of not just

diyroscobs to the cyber and you know, other entheogenic or psychedelic plants. Yeah, there's you know, there was a there's a view that uh, I know Steve Jobs, he would get he would have a room full of his designers all on on LSD and they'd come up with the best designs because because your your mind couldn't create or can even perceive of the technology that he wanted people to start creating in his company, And so he'd give them LSD and

then they'd figure out how to create what they had perceived is true. No, that's the truth. That's the truth. Yeah, that's the truth. Give his engineers no, no, no, this is the truth. This is the truth. And and like how do people come up with the iPod? You know, all those tunes inside that little box that's probably from as a result of LSD, but it's well known that he would he himself and his primary engineers would take LSD to you know, be able to perceive of

something so advanced they couldn't think it. They had to think with a more advance of level of consciousness, which was so Yeah, Ioscar will help you to do that as well. Definitely amazing, Alan, It's been a pleasure ye give. Your book has been out. You can get it on Amazon. But your your website is alchemicaliahuasca dot com. Correct? Correct? What can people find out your website? They can find a bit more about the

book. They can also find out how to contact me. I do have other websites, but that's the best one to contact me with via info at Alchemic alchemicaliahuasca dot com and then on that website there's a link tree to other offerings that we have in different landing pages, so they can find that. My wife, Diana, she usually has a co a pre consultation call. When people contact us, She'll usually call them up to find out what it

is that they need. We also so we operate primarily in Ecuador. We have a retreat center brand new boutique retreat center where we offer in person classes on reiki, Sharmanism and also Ayahuascar ceremonies and San Pedro ceremonies, which is sacred cactus. But we also have a satellite in Manchester where we work with other healers. If people can't make the trip down here, we can help pair them up with different healers up there. Not anybody that does Iowa.

We can't refer people to the Iyaoascar in the United States because it's still legal illegal sorry, in most areas, so we can't recommend that. That's one of the reasons we move down here so that we could do it provide a safer space rather than doing it under the radar. Have you been trained to

do your own ayahuasco formulations? Yeah, I've been trained. Again, as I said before, I tend to buy it because it's just the raw ingredients too difficult to get you can guess you get it from Hawaii now, but you need so much of it that it works out too expensive to have it shipped, and also it may not make it through customs. So and even ayahuasca is really hard to get through the United States customs nowadays. Another reason why I'm moved to Ecuador as well, so it's more accessible. You'll get

the you'll get the liquid formula all ready to go. I did in the US. I did that here here I can make it myself because I have access to the ingred raw ingredients. Amazing. Hey, well, wonderful, great speaking with you, Alan, And for those of you listen listening, it's got a lot of great details. So now you have Alan's contact information in Ecuador. If you're interested in more information, go to the source. So hey, success on this new book. D Thank you so much.

Thank you, Cliff, I really appreciate it. Thanks for all the questions. If you want to know more about ayahuasca, Graham's book Visionary is good. This new book, al Chemical Ayahuasca goes through some of the process. And then Rick Straussman, doctor Straussman, who we've had on the show very a number of times as a DMT book which is excellent and describes ayahuasca journeying. I think it's a fascinating process. I think it is far superior than

taking drugs from the medical established, the pharmaceutical establishment. Most of these drugs for depression are horrific and our country I'm talking about the United States is given so many drugs and suggested to take so many different drugs that is just terrible on the body, really different, really challenge in the body. So anyhow, I hope you enjoyed that and got something out of the program. Hey, I want to mention that we do a number of tours every year,

and we have one that we've added. We haven't been in Mexico for a few years now. We've been going to Egypt quite regularly, but we because of COVID, we weren't in Mexico in November November eighth through the twelfth, we're doing our Ancient Mayan cities of the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico. And this is a great tour because this small area is home to some of the most

brilliant cities ancient cities. We're talking about, of course the most famous Chichi Nitza, but there's a lot of smaller cities that are not as well known that I've known about for years, and that includes ushmol Ek, Balam Miapan and many many others that will be visiting in this short one week tour. For more information in the full light itinerary go to Earth Ancients dot com Forward slash Tours, and I got to mention this, this tour allows us to

actually climb pyramids. Many other places that we go to do not allow pyramid access or even the temple access. This part of Mexico is great because they want people to participate, to connect with these pyramids, with these temples, and I gotta tell you, this is my all time favorite place to visit with pyramids, to engage them, and we'll do a number of meditative ceremonies around these to get a sense of what was there and also help you open

to creativity, to healing, to greater awareness of your surroundings. Again, this is the Ancient Maya Cities Tour November eighth through the seventeenth, twenty twenty four. For more info and the full lightenerary, go to Earth Ancients dot com Forward slash Tours look for that banner, Click it and you'll see all the details and all the information. By the way, we're also gonna be in Turkey. If you're interested in that tour, I think we're about ninety

percent full. Go to Earth Ancients dot com Forward slash Tour look for the Turkey Tour banner that sounds kind of funny and check it out and the itinerary is there. If you have any questions on any of our tours, send me an email at Earth Ancients for you at gmail dot com and I'll get back to you. We are working on a number of fabulous tours in twenty twenty five, including a tour at Easter Island and guess who's going to be

leading that, Doctor Edwin Barnhardt will be joining us there. And we're also got a fabulous tour that is confirmed. Can't really talk about it, but I'm just gonna say it's gonna be in Guatemala, and Guatemala's having a lot of problems lately. This is going to be the tour and tical and the surrounding cities. That's going to be in November of twenty twenty five, So

there's a ton of tours. Doctor ed Barnhardt, who we've had on numerous times, just led a great tour in November of Polanke and the neighboring ruins there. Fabulous, fabulous tour and it's great to go with somebody who's either excavated it, knows about it through other archaeologists and also has a bent towards our point of view here on Earth, Ancients and Destiny, so all of our tours are on Earth Ancients dot Com forward slash Tours. All right,

that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest today, Alan Francis Wall and his new book al Chemical Ayahuasca. As always, the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster, and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock all right, take care of you well and we will talk to you next time. I mo