Wow, I was thinking looking back at Ancient Apocalypse, the Netflix series that featured Graham Hancock highlighting many of his theories, many of his lots of the material from his book. And it's almost been a year and a half now on November of twenty twenty two is when it was released, and we're going to feature the first series is Once There was a Flood, featuring the Doctor
and Danny Hillman. And this was one of my favorites simply because Graham actually flies back out to Java, Indonesia and visits with Doctor Hillmen and they walk around this pyramid. Now, what makes this pyramid a real challenge for a lot of orthodoxy is the fact that he got organic dates see fourteen dates of
over twenty thousand years. In fact, you're going to hear today what some of the estimates are on the final layer, which he didn't get a chance to date the foundation layer, and it's significantly older than twenty thousand years And so what do we do in the face of our current history, which basically says twenty thousand years ago, we were ape like hunters and gatherers and not doing anything close to building pyramids. We were surviving, we were in survival
mode. It completely changes the narrative of our historians. And this is what we're all about here on Earth Ancients, is to look at the history that we've been and to really get a sense of what the foundations are, if they are stable foundations and the materials qualified, or if it's shaky. And we're looking at hypothesis theories and great questions that are not very well answered.
And you know, I have had Danny Hillman on prior to the Ancient Apocalypse series when this ganoon penang pyramidal structure was first discovered, and he shocked the scientific world when he began coming back with very very well organized data and also chambers on the interior of this pyramid, numerous artifacts that were made from geo
polymers. We're going to talk about that today. And why does the scientific world have such a huge problem with this well, and this has been a continual theme here on the program for many, many years, is that science needs to rewrite our history. And as we began finding more evidence of earlier civilizations that are from an earlier epoch, that data needs to be presented in a positive fashion. Quit writing off anything that is before a certain date.
Predynastic people are typically written off. And now we know that many of these highly crafted bulls, plates, vases are from a period where there was high tech involved and they were placed on very sophisticated lays, or they were cut in a manner that we don't understand. There's now some new theories that some of these bulls that Ben ben Kirkwick is working with may have been cut with
lasers. So we just don't know. And you know what's fun and a little frustrating is as technology advances, and we've developed scanning devices, measuring devices and technology that can really tackle the precision levels of some of these artifacts, we're discovering that they are from a time period we just don't understand, and the technology was such that it surpasses our own. And this is what I'm
discovering. And I've talked about this. If your scientists are trained to only fixate on a certain technology, certain time period, and are not encouraged to go to go beyond their own fields of research, timelines or education, then you're stuck. You're a quagmire. And as we get new archaeologists, egyptologists, geologists, and so forth, who are willing and who are encouraged to stretch beyond the timelines that they're given. Then we have the fundamentals, the
foundation for new discoveries, new awareness, new revelations. And so what Graham Hancock has to say isn't that far off? And these sitting professors need to lighten up a little bit and see things as they are rather than as they wish them to be. How do we place a pyramid like Ganon Penang in Indonesia? The Egyptologists who found out about it were very unhappy. I mean,
Zahi Owas was claiming it's not a real pyramid. One of the things that is unique about goanuon Penang is it's a part of a hill that a civilization formed into a pyramid using basalt, columns of stone and other techniques to pack the hill and form it. Now we see this in Bosnia with the Bosnian Pyramids, and there's a great, great deal of question about those pyramids. They don't have the artifacts that Goanoon Penang has. And I'm going to
place a series of photographs for you to see. These artifacts are mind blowing. There's a couple of handheld artifacts that are geopolymer in formation, meaning that they are ground rock and crystal with a powerful glue and then they're placed in what looks like a mold. And these handheld devices are very curious. We don't know how they were used or what their purpose was, so we don't see this at Bosnia. And there's other artifacts that we'll hear about today on
the program. So today's program is g Noon Penang the oldest pyramid on Earth, and my guest is doctor Danny Hillman. We're heading to Indonesia and Java, and we're speaking today with Danny Hillman, not to wad Jaja, who is the key geologist an archaeologist who made this fascinating discovery of a pyramid known
as Ganon Pannag by the locals. This was such an amazing discovery that it was featured on Graham Hancock's Ancient Apocalypse in November of the launched twenty twenty two, and I wanted to have Danny on kind of a fo as kind of a follow up to that interview to see what his and the local reaction was to this program. So Danny, welcome to Earth Ancients, I should say,
welcome back. And what was the reaction by the local community to this groundbreaking Netflix series months after that Nasting Engine Apocalic showing the reaction is really positive in Indonesia and all over the words, until the article in the Nature show up in December, isn't it like one month after the publication and all the positive response from the people from the mass media all over the words. But then the Natural article come up with all the sentiments and you know, all
the confrontdiction or the controversy surrounding it. And then it follows up by several or many like international publications that like showing negative opinions about the the results of the research in Grumpada, So then the controversy begins. But hey, yeah, after the Netflix Apocalytics comes the first month, the response is really positive
and we are really happy about that. Did you get direct communication from individual scientists, individual archaeological groups positive and negative or was it more just people who are watching the series? Well, yeah, in Indonesia, lots of my friends expressing their positive response, their positives common around the around our findings and the papers. Because it's published in the respected journal, the publishability, the
archological perspection, so it's it looks really valid. You know, it has been reviewed for like nine months and stuff from the outside. Also there's people expressing their positive response also through emails and stuff. And even after the controversy, after all that, you know, some of the like negative opinions about that, but still there's some people expressing their positive response. How about how about local authorities that you've been dealing with, did they respond it all to
I mean, because it's an international program. Netflix is all over the place, you know, I mean I think I read somewhere that the audience for that series was in like forty million people. Right, Yeah, I don't know how to say that. They are just like pro and contract. Some of people pro some of them contrast, and the government doesn't really take like a definite action, so they just, uh, I just don't do anything. Just okay, it's controversy, just like ten years ago, that they
didn't do anything about that contropracy. So that's what disappoint me because I expect that the government take as serious thought about that, you know, take a serious action about that. They if they think that this partant case is important, which I think is really important for science and also for the nation for the tourism, it will be like a big you know, tourist activities and
all that. But so so I expect that the government take a positive action, like from like a team of experts national and international, uh to find the truth, the facts, right, But that's not happened. They doing nothing? Well? Was it was the Netflix series covered in the local newspapers and on TV like highlighting you and this discovery? Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, lots of mass media. So on the first month, all of the national mass media respond positively, but after that article in Nature in December,
then it's followed by lots of negative opinion national. We should tell the audience that I think it's now eight or nine years that you've been told not to excavate anymore at go noon, penag. Is that correct? How long has it been? Yeah, it's not really. I've been taught not to excap it the signed, but I have not been facilitated to do research in you have not been uh s facilitated, had been funded and so you don't have
the funds to do anymore work. Yeah yeah, tell tell us how you were funded when you began the work, who was paying the bill for your As an example, your carbon dating and your excavation and consolidation of this pyramid yeah. That also is not like a research grant that granted to the team rather than it's a donation uh provided by through and the ARIBS, which is the the President's Special Assistant for actually is for the Disassi mitigation actually, but
it's interested in faciliating our research Indu Palan. So so we have finally the donation for to couple the operational course of the field and also some carbon dates, but it's not much. So like at that time, I have like one hundred samples to be carbon dated because I know it's very important and I need a solid evidence to say the ages of the layers. But at that
time, we only have money just to analyze like twelve samples. So you only have money to analyze samples, yeah, like less than fifteen samples. Yeah, I hope that I could analyze like one hundred samples to be Are you saying that the government, if you had the money, would grant you a permit to continue research? Yeah? Yeah I think. Okay, yeah, I work for the government research institute. I just have to ask my office to do research if I have money, so then I will be allowed
to do that. Okay, sure, I didn't know that. I thought they said, no more, Dan, You're not allowed to do any more research. No, because according to our regulation here or research, anybody to do research by you know, if they have money and permission, and to get the permission, there's procedures like got prosecute to do that. But it's it's not difficult, okay. So you if some wealthy person said I want to give you several million dollars, you could put something together and get the
permit to begin again. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh my god. Well hey you heard it there my friends listening around the world. If you want to help Danny Ah complete his excavations of the oldest known pyramid in the world, you know now where to send your money. I want to ask you, Uh, your research ended almost to the end. You were at the almost at the you were at the second or third final layer, and you did you did dating carbon dating and dated the soil of that bottom layer at about
twenty thousand years. What was your guess if you went to the very bottom, was it another ten thousand years that that would come into play in the total age of the pyramid would be like twenty eight to thirty thousand years. The oldest layer, which required as a Unit three. It sits on top of the natural proclamation, the remnant of the engine volcanics like a volcanic neck. So below that all the layers is natural rock formation that we cannot date.
But the day, the age of the natural rockmation is like millions of years. So that's slayers and the age also it still range from sixteen thousand to twenty seven thousand years old. We don't know the exact date yet. We have to have much more comprehensive dating to not the exact date I would say, but I would say that it is possible date. The actual age could be older. I don't know, but that's what we get. What do you suspect, though, Danny, what do you suspect could be the
true age when you complete the all layers. That's what I said. According to the dating results, the old slayer range from sixteen thousand to twenty seven thousand years old is on the soils better than the soils associated with the structures. So I take the soils in between the rocks, the fragment of rocks
on that structures. That's where the age came from. And that the carbone that we ate we did, it's come from all the bioorganisms that live in when the consumption standing there, and I think particularly after their lab because after the starters lap, the the pyrameter will be occupied by lots of trees, grass and stuff like. Now. Yeah, so that that leave the carbons to be dated, so that age could be later after the consumption has been
left. So that is still a chance that the actual age of the construction is order. And if we see the success you need three, the unit tree is really weather very rare. That uh, the fragment has been has a spirital weathering extrapulations. I mean it's really old. It has been exposed
to the air for thousands of years. Yeah. So and also there's a minimum age to that unit three because the unit three and at one place it's buried by the soil fields, not the weathering soils, but the soil field done by the human And we also did that soils and the age of the soils is ten thousand years old. So that is the minimum age of that old slayer you need three three Unit three is the oldest layer. I think
that's one give controversy to the established paradigm. I think, yeah, because it's older than go me Cepe when you started excavating, you found some very interesting tools stone tools that you Johnstone artifact. Yeah, yeah, the very interesting Yeah, and there's also very important. Yeah. I want you to talk to talk about these artifacts because the first one looks like you can hold on to it and it's it's it's a very cool tool because it's a geopolymer
of some kind, isn't it. Uh. Yeah. The rocks is peculiar. It's not it's not granite, but it's some kind of rocks that has it spotus when you touch it, and it has lots of metals that this tut evenly on the roll, so it's different from the other rocks surrounding it. So I don't know whether that's as a natural rocks or not. But we haven't really examine it, you know, very deeply on the lab yet.
But I don't know. But the ship that it's really peculiar. The length of the Ku johnstone is twenty two centimeters and the length of the sides of that physics is like seven sentiments. It's very regular, so it's like twenty two seven. It's like pi numbers and stuff. And my friend is a professor of physics said that the the shape of that stone artifacts expressing like
a very advanced mathematical football something like that. Yeah. So, and what one of the things that people have to understand that that artifact is found on top of that Unit three, that buried by the ten thousand years soil the infield. How deep was it found about three meters three meters on the side, So you were then the grab samples and you found it. So that Kujohan stone, the artifact lying down on the top of the Unit three, buried by three meters soils. So I mean as carpetate the soils, we
see that Kujiang stone artifacts. And it's also interesting because that Kujong stone lying down there together with many quarts mean quarts crystals, yeah, grains, Yeah, yeah, like many of them. I don't know for what, but it's it's unfortunate though that the many of that green quartz crystal has been gone. But I still have like two or three of the quartz crystal with me. So, uh, talk a bit about this artifact. Uh, does it resonate when you hit it? Does it have any strange properties? Does
it? I mean, I don't know if you scanned it to see what the composition is it's very odd looking. Yeah. No, as I said, we haven't really study that in much details in the lab, the crystal structures, the minerals, the composition, exact composition. Yeah, but yeah, it's very peculiar. And the rocks is composed by the bassouti and site which also has u special properties it has. It contained lots of it could be my irons, but it's not all of them. Some of them.
If you hit the rock, it's sounding, it's like the musical stone, you know, thinking thing interesting. Not all of them, just some of them has that property that is the most unique artifact that you found. But I'm curious. I think I've seen a couple of other smaller pieces that look like many of them. For me, yea, many of the articles that looks like Kujang also is not the only one. We also have that have the same shape but bigger, larger like the size that Kujan stone is like
the side, but the others is like that size. There are many artifacts actually they haven't talk about that much in our paper. Yeah. Where are they stored, Danny? Are they stored in a in a garage somewhere or well? Many of them is being put them back on the trends under Stavasians. Some of them has been I think it's on the on the local gardens of the local people who maintain society, and many of them has been gone. Yeah, they're probably stolen. Yeah yeah, and they some local people
also salad. You know. Oh really, Oh that's too bad. Talk about the room that you imaged when you were scanning the pyramid. I can't remember if it's above the third level, between the first and second or whatever, but I remember when you were describing it, you not only imaged it, but there was some strange sound that was being emitted from it. You're talking about the chamber chamber? Is it the chamber? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I don't think I have talked about the sound that's coming to the
chamber yet, because we happen to really dig into the chamber. We know there are large chambers because it's from the drilling and be real, one of the spots the water circulation that we use for the drilling has it's not come back again, so it just lost many of them, like thirty two thousand liters that's gone to the ground and it's still flashing down. So I have to we have to stop the drilling because we don't want to flood the sides,
so there are a lot of chambers. And then from our geophysical survey from the Earth associated tomography end up from the seismics tomography and given another ground penetential runner as well, we could delineate the chambers below the tarras one the tras two like in the center of the sides at depth like twenty two thirty meters depth, and the location of the chambers is between unit two and you need three. Unit three is the massive end side and Unit two is comprised
a stack of stones, including the Colonna rockstone. So we have convinced that it is not the natural hole on the end side because it's not just on the end side, but also on the rock layers that comprise many fragment rocks. And the shape also is like rectangular, so yeah, sometimes like rectangular, and it has also like the walls that we see on the sessmic tomography scanning. Yeah, and what really intrigued me the chambers is not just one
layer. They are void a large avoid between twenty two like thirty meters depth, but then the other larger chamber larger for its below that between like forty to sixty meters depth. Oh my god, that's wid a much larger. But we have to explore them more because like right now we only have that image from several a few a few of our super alliance, so it hasn't really comprehensive super like that the several chamber. Yeah, but I'm very convincent
other lard chamber. So there's two levels of the chambers indan and below that chambers are a big reserve one which some of the water came out to the front of the pyramids as the water spring the local people. That thing. It's like a second water. The water is really good, it's very natural. So that water has come it's it's it's came out from that large reservoir under the ban. Oh, there's a natural reservoir that you discoverage. I
think it's a big recpterir under the mouth underd Yeah. The water, Uh, the water come up. So when we real like an eighteen meter the water from down it's like come out to the really equipment, so that uh, the water pressure at the water reservoir called thefer a kifer has some pressure. Irefer yeah, has a pressure high pressure to push water up Yeah.
Do you do you suppose that these rooms are relieving chambers, uh for the stability of the pyramid, or do you suspect that they may have been designed uh for activities of some kind. I think it has been designed by activity. I would say that why has maintained by our ancestors like three ways,
right, because that means three generations. Maybe a first generation constructed it, and the second generation come after many years, and then they construct the pyramids, and then they live also, and the third generations come and reconstruct the youngest layer, which means they think that has very important. So I would suspect that what they consider a very important thing is on the chamber m especially
the deeper chamber. That the deepest chamber is if you look into the mountain and the mount mound, that large chamber is like in the center of the of the hill. Very interesting. We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves and we'll be right back with my guest today, doctor Danny Hillman, coming to us from Java, Indonesia. We'll be right back. M h h. My guest today is doctor Danny Hillman
from Java, Indonesia. He is the principal investigator who excavated a pyramid known as go Noon Penang and discovered it is over twenty thousand years old and was created by an unknown civilization way before the time period that we believe sophisticated societies existed. But you never found an entrance way into any of these inter chambers, did you know, like stone interrance way. So the thing is, you could imagine that this is a three layer, right, but such one
layels you need to be you need to you need to one. So now you're on top of you need to one. So when we do survey in two thousand from two dozen, two fourteen, especially in the two dozen fourteen, we are trying to find the access by the digging excavation, so we you know, we we're hoping that we find the entrance, like the door, but we haven't found that yet. Uh. One of my friends like, have an idea, why don't we just really you know, like to
the here. But I refuse it because that we will destroyed, it could destroy the side. Yeah. And also I don't know whether if we uh you know, if we dig into the you need to whether you need to toss an entrance we don't know yet. We just have to conduct like a full excavation of that pill, uh to know the entrance. That's what we
hope. So that's also the problem because if we do just a regular study, a regular research in Gunbada, which will not be easy because according to our procedure here in Indonesia archaeological excavation, we could escape if you could dig one trend. But then after they we finished that, we have to close it again. Oh no, I think another which is it's not good.
So we have to if we would like to do like a full study in Gnupada, we have to uh go to the we call it a consumption phase of the pyramid, which allows us to do like a full excavation without have to close it again. Oh interesting, Yeah yeah, yeah, you're the president doesn't want you to disturb the integrity of the pyramids, so he's asked you to cover up what you what you're excavating. That's a challenge. Uh. In your ground penetrating radar, are you seeing tunnel systems in the pyramids
at all? Or is it just rooms tunnels? Tunnels? So they're showing up on one, two, and three layers. Uh, Well, there are there are many tunnels below the teals is, connecting the chambers on the central of the pyramids to the chambers on the southern part of the pyramids. Uh, it's so in the especially in the racist sesmic tomography be must we do lots of seesmic tomography? No, I mean racisty tomography who at that
time? Yeah, but I would say that to define put them more about the details of the chambers and the tunnels, we have to do much more soup face. Yeah more. Have you registered any frequencies toleric energy, toleric fields that are bubbling up from the base. In other words, does this pyramids sit on a toleric lay line of some kind? Yeah, you're talking
about the frequency. Yeah, yeah, I'm not an expert on that, but many of my friends has a expertise in like the meditation, spiritual exercise and stuff, and many people feel that that frequency, you know there is also so lately there are some group doing research on that frequency and they they they have some instruments to record that frequency and they found has a very very low frequency. They said, that's very strange. Uh. They said that
the usual natural frequency is like from five words to whatever. Several times of words, but in is like below five words something like that. So there's some strange frequency in. But what I what you can feel many people can feel if we come up to go to the top, we feel peace, some kind of piece feeling, you know, very cool and you know it's really relaxing environment. So I would say that maybe come up from the frequency.
I love to hear that you're getting a positive frequency. I think we need to let people know that you have not been idle in your continual research. Talk about this. Three additional pyramids that you have uncovered in your research. Now how number one how did you find them? Was it lightar or just general surveys, survey charts? And number two, how do you know their pyramids? Yeah? So yes, that's interesting. So in the past
two years I found other pyramids in Indonesia that first in Lake Toba. Lake is very famous for the supervolcano Candra that has been erupted seventy four thousand years ago. In central Sumatra, there are pyra means just like that's into one of the healed. You know, if you don't really looking at that carefully, you don't really searching for anything peculiar, you will think that it's just a natural formation something like that, because it's also covered by lots of vegetation.
Yeah. But then I saw that on the where like I have an information from my friend who come there, and he said that there's some interesting about that place. We found a stack of rock like the fans like like in Gurupada, megalitic structures on the on the flat level because in the valley. Yeah, and he said that that rock is still falling up to the you know up there. So I come there and I check it out and it's turned out it's a pyramid success like one hundred and twenty meters high.
Wow. So yeah, and then after you know that and you see that from a distance, it's just I figured, really obvious, and at that moment we just couldn't believe why for you know, for many years people miss it, you know, people like didn't see it. It's just like he didn't know, just hidden in the air magically. You know. It's funny though, if you come there and talk to the local people. Local people
also doesn't really realize that. And some of them realize, okay, I know that's that is a cemetery because they use that terraces on the pyramid for the cemetery modern cemetery, but on the lower park. And then some people said that, oh yeah, I know that raps that is the from our ancestors who built it. But when I when we asked, okay when or I don't know, haart of the years by the south and I don't know it's been there. So there is there is a there is a history by
the local people. They understand it to be by earlier people. That's right. And it's interesting though because the people a couple of Toba basically doesn't want to tell that secret, doesn't want to tell public about their ancestors. So talk about is three sided. Right, Oh yeah, that's I found that recently. In Flores actually people know that Comodo Island the is an island, okay, the Kommo craters from the messogoic is the ASA periods. The Commodo
Island is next to the Florest Island. That the big island, the Commodo Islands a small island and the best part of the Florest and that pyramid seed
and the center of the on the florist on the Florest island. And I came there because I have an earth bake study active thoughts that I found out acted for the water dram lots of water bram that need the seismic hazard epalations, and that pyramid sits only like a couple of kilometers up from that dam, and I also have a lighter data on that area, and so I know there's something peculiar on the landscape of that pyramid. It's not it doesn't
seem to be a geological formation. So so I checked that out and it turned out to be a pyramid that has three sides, has a three sides, so it's a I think we called it the triangular pyramids or the tetrahedral pyramids. Yeah pyramids, yeah, yeah, because all of the pyramids in the world has the four sides, right, like these are pyramids, but this pyramid has three faces. The height of the pyramid is like one hundred to one hundred and twenty meters. What are the characteristics, Danny of that
pyramid tetra Heaton Drian pyramid that make you feel that it's it's artificial? Uh? Yeah, I angeologists and I'm experts in avoiding the landscape. So that area that pyramid is in the below the Big pulcano, it's still active in the volcano, and it's rights that the eruption of that volcano create the thick layers of the brickshire volcanic crops around the wood. And the landscape of the
area is very rock. What's rock is like roggien rouggien terrain stuff. But that pyramid is just like come out on that rock terrain and the topography is really smooth, really smooth and really you know, it's really regular. It's like a pyramid and stuff like that. So it's uh, from the landscape, you should know that the rocks that from the hill should be different from the surrounding yeah, okay, from the texture, from the relief of the
topography. And second, the no erosion, like a very small erosion on that hill, it tells you that should be younger, like significantly younger than the surrounding topography. Its running topography, the volcanic deposit it's ages like one hundred thousand years old. Yeah, but this hill it looks like very young. It's looks like a thousand, like ten twenty thousand, I guess or something like that. So the geological hypothesis is this, it should not be
comprised. You know, it is different from the surrounding rocks. That means the only possible geological phenomena if the rock is like the cylinder rocks that just stuck up there surrounding by the younger rocks, it's like all like the intrusive rocks, you know, the the massive intrusive rocks. So that's the geological hypothesis. Whether this is the the basement rocks comprised of the sediment of rocks,
or is the intrusive rocks comprised by a massive ignorance rock. H Yeah, So when we check the location, it's not the sediment of rock, it's not the massive geological rock. It's comprised by the terrasis comprised by balls, rocks, fragment rocks that you know. So is it the same as is it the same as Gonoon Penang where they are building layer and then they're building a second layer, and then they're fortifying that with the first layer.
It's not. Yeah, in in in some well in some cases is similar. Also is standing out surrounding by a testuary volcanic rocks. It looks young and looks very smooth like these pyramids, but the shape of the pyramid in Florence is different. Ah, and the rock classes is possibly similar to also but on on the you know, the the preserved rock glasses on the on top of the mountain, but the side of the mountain that has been buried by soils. But yeah, what the details we got now yet because we
have really do the surveys property. What what do you suspect when you see I mean you're you're finding additional pyramids? Uh? What do you suspect? Uh? Is the reason for this culture to build pyramids? Do you think it's just two reach the heavens and sanctify the gods? Or do you think that it had more of a a utility function in it if you were to guess or is it hard to say? Had to say it could it could be uti function, but it could also act as like temples. Temples.
Yeah amazing. Yeah, I mean I can see you're like, you're you're kind of like wishing you had the money to go and you know, start digging at some of those other sites. Yeah. I hope we can do that soon. Do you think there's an opportunity for you to go to these other places? Yeah? Yeah, okay, we just did some fun to do that. Fantastic. I want to conclude with unfortunately a little bit of
a negative in Graham Hancock's website. You you submitted a paper to the Archaeological Perspective column and received a negative reaction and also your paper was retracted and rejected. Why was it rejected number one? And what was the reason for them to not allow the paper in this appeer reviewed publication. Yeah, so the people has been reviewed for like nine months and there are lots of proficient to
the paper, so it has no problem. We have a lot of good discussion when we in the process of submitting the paper until it's accepted by the Junes and published. So why it's been retracted, It's just mentioned on the retraction notice. People can read it. So the reason for the retraction because
there are some people who are anonymous. We don't know who they are, whether an expert or not, we don't know because anonymous as people third partistical that has it's a concern, raise a concern that our paper has a major errors. The stating what the major errors, and then it's been evaluated by the general editors. They said they evaluated the concerns and they also communicate with
us whether we agree or not. Of course we disagree, and we ask them to give like a scientific evidence of that concern of their They thought, why it's a major error, but they could they don't. They didn't give us any like proper scientific explanation or evidence. It just said under the attraction, notice that our paper has a major error because our carbon dating radio carbon dating is from the soil samples that has no relationship with anthropogenic activities or artifacts.
Why were they even dis us that? I mean, it's like this, but they don't discuss it. Why they think so? Oh, so they're just throwing rocks at you, right, So it's a sense of I would say, it's not so it is going to be any chance that that that they will allow the paper to be published? Ah? Or do you think they're just holding it up because it causes too much controversy? Well, but the good thing is they under reflection they say that we don't agree with
their opinion. And if the our paper is attracted by one publisher, that means we could publish it again in another publisher if you want, we have we could just publish it another journals, like rewrite the papers and submitted again. Our plan is we will define the paper into like two or three papers, because we think that our papers is just too pig you know, the
content is just too heavy. Have having lots of aspect that people we are not easy to understand from archaeology, geology, the OPEC face Mike tomography, Grandpa is rather so our people is really has a lot on it. So it's very dense. It's very dense we have. We would like to divide them into a few paths so people will easy to understand and submit it again to add the Journal's that's what our plan. Do you still feel that the
archaeological community is shocked by your discovery? And I think, I mean, do you still have a sense that they just can't seem to get over themselves and accept your dating of twenty thousand years for the pyramid? The retraction of the pit of the our paper to us, that proves that our paper really strengthening their establishment. They think it's a big thing, so they have to retract them. Yeah, so that's a big deal for them. So they
afraid of our paper. If not, they would would not retack our paper. So when in the redaction, in the before the retaction, I also suggest the publisher not to retact the people the paper, but you know, facilitate the scientific discuss through the post publication critics. So it could be discussed like openly in the cientific community. But they are not allow us to you know, they're not they're doing that. Then a cloud that the scientific discuss
to be open to you can't you can't debate. Yeah, so I think they debated like publicly that one month. Will you do you since there's a fear of acceptance. I mean, you've got tons of data that show good solid evidence from your core samples to your C fourteen dating. Yeah, you're surveying. It just seems like I mean, people like Zahi Hawas are like, it's not a pyramid because it's not like Egyptian pyramids. Well that's so
backwards in his thinking. Is it just that you're up against old thinking and and what you're dealing with is a pyramidal uh community that designed a different kind of a pyramid, and it's just too much for the orthodoxy to to accept. Yeah, it's a big things. If it's that it's opened to the public and we continue to study at the bill open you know, many many
things, many forbidden things, yeah. So, but people not many people understand that the to solve the controversy is not difficult because what we say, uh that the unit to one you need two layers. It's exposed until now, so people could see that on the surface. So that's actually the big mistake of the uh, the previous archaeology. But to do because they think, uh, you know, exposed in the top of the the megarthic site. They think that some of them, some of the sculumuna rocks of them
is a natural rock formation. But in fact they're all man made layers and it's it's obvious and that the rock Tassa is on top ofang hill. So if like a team of geologists and archaeologists come together to the site and discuss together, I would say that the controversy will will be. Let me just finish with that thought that you just made. Have you had groups of scientists with you at Ganon Pa Dag and walk through the facility and then show them
the paperwork and the research that you got from your surveys. Yes, yes, especially like ten years ago. Yeah, we come up to gun Padang with lots of scientists, geologists and what was there conclusion? Most of them has no argue about that. I mean they agree with a lot of the shay. You know, that's including the the Director General for the Archaeology who come with me to them, with the Ministry of the Cultures also to come to Gunpadan, and then we discussed it and there's oh yeah, they's agree
it's a Maine made suste. It's very obvious, you know, on the side. But after that it's gone, you know, there's still obvious resistance, and I think there's the old guard h wants to adhere to the current history that there were just hundreds and gatherers after six thousand BC or something, which is kind of sad. Danny, It's been a real pleasure speaking with
you as well. What do you think it would make a difference if you did a survey and you were excavating and you found something that says this place is from Limoria or move uh, which would be a pretty big deal. But do you hope that you one day uncover an artifact that has perhaps writing or is in a certain configuration that would define the builders of that place as
a sophisticated race of people. Yes, I'm hoping so, Like I hope that someday I could go into the temples, I would say, I'm you know, I'm very convinced that you will find something on the tender that tell us the past. We have we have, you know, not just but I have lots of other evidence also in anitia like that three other pyramids, and I haven't told you that. I also has an evidence of the sunken harbor like sixty meters under the water, like five kilometers harbor, A harbor,
a harbor like like name it all. Now, the harbor, the harbor for the ship to come is like a square harbor with the flat and the square deep water. But in the water that harbor is like sixty meters below the sea surface. It means that the harbor is very old. It should be older than ten thousand years old. Oh my god. And where is it located? Is it close to Gonoon and not from few You're finding more amazing sites. I I don't know. You're shocking me just to talk
about that. It's fantastic. Hey, much success, continued success. I really hope that someone can help fund you so that you can continue at hes at Goon penag to open one of those or one of those chambers one of those spaces and really see what's in there. Yeah, fantastic, I hope so, I hope. So, Danny, always a pleasure and uh, blessings to you and your family. I want to thank you for joining me.
Thank you, thank you, Bety. Nice talking to you. I think that Danny's telling us that where he is digging, where this pyramid is located, known as Goon Penang, is a potential and that surrounding area is a potential game changer in more ways than we realize. This new harbor that he mentions is fascinating older than ten thousand years old. That's where a lot
of the future really is going to change things. And then we start diving under the ocean along the coastal areas, we're going to see lots of civilizations. We see one in Duarca, which is off the coast of India, but I mean that was dated to twelve thousand years But we need to get
research off of like the coast of United States East and West coast. I know in Mexico they've done satellite imagery of the Caribbean area and I feature this in my book, where you have a snota Sanota you have a white road known as a sakbe that travels from say Coba into an area around to to Loom, so they're connecting, and then it goes into the water, and because the water is only a few feet deep, you can follow it with satellite imagery out to about a quarter of a mile and then it disappears.
And there's a great deal of speculation that there's a number of major Mayan cities that are off the coast. In fact, it's a couple of my contacts that our elders believe that there's a very prominent city off the Caribbean coast in this area that I was just mentioning. You see, soakby is running into the water all through the Yucatan, in through different parts of Mexico, and in Guatemala. There's actually ruins of a city that's about half a mile off
the coast. What this means is that the water levels rose to such a degree that they covered the cities. And if we have a city that's a couple hundred feet under the water, that means that that ruin that city is thousands and thousands of years old because the waters rose over ten thousand years ago. So that's a ball, that's a game changer. That is a game
changer. And because the funding for underwater excavation, archaeological excavation is so expensive and you have to have teams of trained divers slash archaeologists, it's just I mean, it's gonna have to have We're gonna have to develop cheap submarines or something like this. So fantastic, real great to have Danny on the program and really wonderful exploration and I'm sure we're gonna hear much more from him in the near future. Hey, I want to mention that we have two upcoming
end of the year tours. One is in August. It's the granted Turkey Tour August fourteenth to the twenty fourth, and that is almost full. We got a few spots left. And the final tour of the year is the Sacred Temples of Yucatan, Mexico, November eighth through the seventeenth. That's just starting to fill. But I'll tell you that's a real reasonable tour price wise, and they're all reasonable. We make sure of that. This one is in Yucatan, which is very easy to get to from the United States or
Canada. We're based in Mereada. We have a great, great We have a really good itinerary of may insights that have new excavations, new ruins, and we have made sure that we can at least climb half of the sites that we go to. That's ushmol Ek Baalam, Mayapan and a couple of the smaller ones like lab Or SiO. We'll be able to climb on those pyramids that is not typical for most sites. And I got to tell you it's great fun to climb these pyramids because they're sitting on lay lines, which
means that you're absorbing the energy. For the full itinerary on both Turkey in August or Mexico in November. Go to earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours and see the itinerary and register. If you have any questions about our tours, send me an email send it to earth Ancients for you at gmail dot com and I'll get right back to you. I got to mention this right now. I did let the cat out of the bag. For twenty twenty five, we have an Easter Island tour in the spring of that year with
doctor Edwin Barnhardt. We'll be in Turkey again and then we are doing Day of the Day in October with doctor Ed Barnhard and that is at t call. It's in Guatemala. It's a Petan tour and those pyramids are active and we're gonna be enjoying that early in the morning, but on the day of the day, so we'll be celebrating along with the locals. Again. For more information, go to Earthancients dot com forward slash Tours. Okay, that's
it for this program. I want to think my guest today, doctor Danny Hillman, coming to us from Indonesia, and as always, the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys are rock all right, take care, be well and we will talk to you next time. Sixty