Well, hey, how you do it. I'm gonna have a seat. Let's talk a little bit. I have to consider Earth
Lanes very arrogant, especially the scientists of our planet. And I say this because other than the UFO community, which many people claim are crazy individuals and are seeing things, none of our scientists are, you know, except for a handful, are even considering that there's other civilizations that are in our cosmos, in our close to us in any manner whatsoever, and that there's no you know, space, there's no aircraft, there's no spacecraft, there's nothing that is interacting with Earth
Lanes at all. And given them amount of star systems and habitable plants that there are in our neighborhood with likely civilizations, to consider us the only one in our
solar system, it's just crazy. And I'm presenting this thought to you because my guest today is doctor av Loebe, who is returning to the program to discuss his decipherment analysis of what he believes was a crash probe in the Pacific Ocean off the islands of New Guinea approximately the year was approximately twenty ten, and he gets so much gruff for this from his contemporaries from others in this field of astronomy, and it just flabbergasted me, because
you know, it's like no one has any creativity anymore, no one has any consideration of other thoughts. I mean we, I mean, we've been looking for evidence of ets for decades and I think in many cases it's just under our nose in the form of probes. This is what lobes all about. And we've had them on the show a number of times, UAPs which are here currently, and this is another huge question. Are they hiding in volcanoes? Are they under the ocean. There's a whole phenomenon of
UAP's UFOs coming out of the ocean. And then, of course the other side of it is when we had Marion Rednick on the program, he had actually seen and had heard about UAPs coming through various stargates where some through some kind of an energy exchange. The there's an opening, the craft flies through it and it's shot off into another location within a few seconds. But it's too it's too fantastic we've gotten. And I'm not talking about me, because you guys know where I'm at on this stuff.
I'm looking for more openness. I'm looking for more access to this data. I think they They're all over the place. I think that our government not only is covering this up, I think they're scared shitless. I think they are so overwhelmed with these UAPs. And now what do we get in New Jersey, on the and on the Eastern Seaboard. We get very advanced drones. And some people are saying, no, those are Chinese droneses are of American, These are European drones.
No way.
Some of these drones. Drones have extremely sophisticated propulsion systems and they can do all kinds of weird things that look more like a UFO or UAP than they do a drone. But what I'm trying to say is for our scientific community to just summarily dismiss this is a huge mistake, and it's arrogant. It's tremendously arrogant, and it really really bothers me. And so today we're going to talk about not only interstellar probes to Earth. We're gonna
talk about evidence of space junk. And this is another topic that is routinely discussed in any of av Loab's books. If you saw, if you read Extraterrestrial, if you read
his first book, Interstellar. He talks about space junk and how a civilization perhaps a billion years old, broke up or they sent probes out and the probes, their propulsion systems faded and they're just floating probes and stuff like we would consider plastics and things like that, but in the case of an advanced culture would probably be exotic metals or exotic composites of some kind that were resilient
to you know, vacuum, the vacuumust air, vacuumus space. So but you know, I'm just disappointed and those who in the scientific community who branch out people like doctor John Mack, who I knew through the various events that talks he gave in San Francisco. This is a guy who's a classically trained Harvard psychiatrist, doctor John Mack, and he was so fascinated when he encountered a number of patients who claimed to have contact with aliens, and in this case
it was abductions. They were removed from their beds, their homes, in some cases their cars, brought up into a craft and examined. And for a long time, many many years after that book, deduc did people were freaking out that
this is something that was a horrible traumatic experience. Well it is somewhat of a traumatic experience, but what John Mack was able to report in his study is that many of these people had very positive experience and that the offer Wall types of the ets, the aliens, if you want to call them, that, actually were very forward in their presentation and in their greeting and in their meetings with these people and let them know that what
they were doing was benefiting a higher good. And then in some cases they were given some information about where their star system was, how the crafts worked, things like that. And so we don't hear about this unless you are seeking it. It's very rarely in the news. The government
is totally perplexed on what to do about this. And again I started this stream of consciousness by stating that I think the government I'm talking about the United States government and likely European government as well, are overwhelmed with this. They cannot they don't know what to do about it,
and there's no way around it. They are faced with it to the point now where they've been squelching it for so many decades and covering it up that I think at some point It's just, you know, our brothers and sisters from whatever planetary system are just going to say, hey, we are here, this is our craft. We come from planet X and so forth and so on. I mean, that's pretty simplistic, but why not.
Why not?
Remember we've had a number of guests on this program who have been talking about what the Department of Defense, what NASA has done over the years, and that is to ask priests, rabbis, and others in the religious sector what their opinion would be if there was a first contact, if there was a revelation that there are aliens that are here, that they want to get to know us better and they want to welcome us to their collective. Why ask priests? Why ask people from a dying organization
known as the church? Why don't you talk to somebody who is in social media, somebody who is in the face of the of the of the millions of people you know, do a survey, Ask ask Facebook, ask Instagram, ask Yahoo. What do you think? How would you react, what would your opinion be, what would you how would you feel? Anyhow, we are going to explore this question of extraterrestrial interstellar probes orbiting Earth now crashing through our atmosphere,
burning up and being collected. And we'll hear details from doctor Lobe today on that and also the question of first contact. So today's program is evidence for interstellar probes to Earth, and my guest is doctor av Lobe. Hey, spring is just around the corner where there. It's going to be getting better and better as we continue on into the year, and this means it's time to think
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but let me just give you a reminder. He is the author of Extraterrestrial, a fascinating book that we discussed a few years ago. He followed that up with a wonderful second book, which was called Interstellar, and we're gonna learn a little bit about that. Also, the Omaha maua fragment or object that was cited off of our our planet. We discussed a great deal about that and what we were going to talk about today is also a fascinating but I want to first before I do that, bring
alv in. Alvi, great to see you again. Welcome back to Earth, Ancients.
Thanks for having me. In fact, I just signed a contract with MIT Press. I'm working on my next book which will be about the expedition that we will discuss to retrieve the materials from the crash site of the first interstellar meteor.
Wonderful, wonderful. Okay, let let's get right into it. This meteor hit the ocean in twenty fourteen in the Pacific Ocean, in the New Guinea region of the ocean. So when we left off, you were looking for the fans to do a analysis. You're going to dredge the bottom, give us the highlights. Let's get into it. What happened.
Well, first thing is I had a zoom call with chars Hoskinson and he said you have the money and that was one and a half million dollars needed to do the expeditions.
Well then a half million dollars to do the dredging.
Yeah, because we had to spend two weeks on site. The location was identified by US government CENSORCES. The fireball that released about one percent of the Hiroshima atomic bomb energy when an object roughly half a meter in size collided with Earth at a very high speed. And the reason that it was interesting for US is because the velocity of this object was so large relative to the Sun that it was not bound by gravity to the Solar System. It came from outside the Solar System, and
therefore it's the first recognized interstellar meteor. It appeared in a catalog that NASA compiles of meteors that the US government sensors on satellites identify because the US is trying to monitor any launch of ballistic missiles from the heat
that they generate. But every now and then there is an object that produces an explosion, and in fact, every year there is an object the size of a person that collides with Earth and results in an atomic explosion in our atmosphere, basically as much energy as released by
the Hiroshima bomb, and we don't talk about it. It doesn't appear in the news because those explosions usually happen high at a very high altitude, and they don't damage anything on the ground, and you know, most of the time they occur above the oceans, twenty one percent of
the surface of the Earth is not. But in this case the object was exploded only twenty kilometers above the ocean surface, and that meant that it was unusually tough, tougher than all other meteors reported in the NASA catalog, hundreds of them, and moreover, even outside the Solar System. It was moving at sixty kilometers per second, faster than ninety five percent of the stars in the vicinity of the Sun. And so I was wondering whether it's a
voyager like meteor or you know. On January second this year, twenty twenty five, an amateur astronomer recognized a point of light coming close to Earth and classified it as a near Earth object, an asteroid. And as soon as that was reported, a few scientists realize, actually, this object has the orbital parameters of the Tesla Roads, the car that Elon Musk launched in twenty eighteen as a dummy payload on the Falcon Heavy. So it was not an asteroid.
It was actually a technological object the car, and maybe this meteor from a decade ago was also technological, maybe some space trash. So I wanted to check that. So I announced our intention to go on an expedition, and then came the funding and we had an exceptional team on a ship called the Silver Star that we stopped.
You one second, a can you explain why we should care about what you defined as an interstellar object versus just a meteor that we must be bombarded constantly by meteors? This is interstellar, which is a whole different definition. Give us a little background.
On that, right, So, never before was an object colliding with Earth identified as coming from outside the Solar System, because I mean, we are bombarded by rocks from the main asteroid belt. You know, there is a region of the Solar System where there are plenty of rocks leftover from the formation of the time of the Solar System, but also as a result of collisions among various proto planets.
And then we see that in fact, with the web telescope very recently, rocks all the way down to ten meters were identified just from the heat that they emit with the web telescope that is extremely sensitive, and so we see this reservoir of rocks in our backyard. It's just like when you own a home, you have a backyard. Sometimes if you're not in a city and you can find rocks there, so we have that as part of
the Solar System. These are familiar objects and they are triggering every now and then a meteor appearance in our sky when they collide with Earth as the Earth moves around the Sun. So these are regular occurrences. What was specially about this one is the object was moving so fast relative to the Sun that it cannot be bound to the Solar System. It must have arrived from outside because gravity is not strong enough for the Sun to
trap it. And so that was the first time we noticed a meteor reported with such a high speed, and I wanted to check whether it's potentially technological in origin. Just imagine voyager leaving the Solar System and eventually colliding with another planet. It would appear as a meteor. So we went there and we used the sled with magnets
on both sides. We placed it on the ocean floor, which is about a mile deep at that location, and then we went back and forth twenty six times across the region of about seven miles where the explosion took place.
And then we recovered magnetic particles that were very different from the background sand, and then looked like molten droplets potentially from a meteor, eight hundred and fifty of them, and I brought the materials back to the laboratory of my colleague at Harvard University is stein Jacobson, and we also analyzed them at the Brooker Corporation in Berlin with
an X ray fluorescence analyzer. But at any event, in stein Jacobson's lab, we studied the composition, the chemical composition of those spherals, and we found that eighty percent of them belonged to materials from the solar system that was seen before, but then twenty percent looked different. And then out of those half have a chemical composition that does not resemble solar system materials. And those are the ones that we flagged as potentially from outside the solar system.
They had a very high abundance of beryllium, lanthanum, uranium,
and then we call them Belao spherals or fragments. And what we are planning to do next I just met with stein Jacobson in his research assistant Eugenia Young, and I received funding for us to continue to work for the next twelve months where we will look at the isotopes that make those unusual fragments and try to figure out their age, for example, because if we can date them, then we can tell conclusively whether they came from the Solar System or outside of the Solar System, because any
material from another star would have a different age. And the way to tell the age is by using isotopes that decay after some time, and from that you can use them as clocks. So that's what we are planning to do in the coming months. But in addition to that, we want to find bigger fragments, bigger pieces of the original object by having a second expedition, and that will cost six and a half million dollars because now we will need to put a robot, a remotely operated vehicle
on the ocean floor with a video feed. You know, previously we did it blindly. We collected materials without seeing what we are collecting. But now we want the robot to actually pick up pieces in the region that look interesting. And so at the moment I'm seeking funding for this, we need to make a down payment. We have a ship that is ready for us to use in August twenty twenty five, but we need to put a down payment of a million dollars and I'm waiting for a thunder.
Any person that comes forward to fund this could come with us to the expedition site and see what we find. We can give that person priority being first to see what we are finding.
Oh, they can come along on the ship. Yes, oh wonderful. Do you have any of course, it's hard to tell the original dimension of this. I'm just going to call it a probe or a meteor. But as you're I mean, what do you suspect is this another amount mala?
No, it's a smaller object or moa was a different object that came within a sixth of the Earth's sun separation. It didn't collide with Earth. It was just passing by, and it was much bigger. It was one hundred meters in size and looked very strange because the amount of sunlight that was reflected from it changed by a factor of ten as it was stumbling, and so the most likely shape that it had was that of a pancake,
a flat object, a disc. So that was a different object, also interstellar, because it was moving faster than needed to escape from the Sun's gravity. This object, based on the amount of light that it generated in the explosion, we can say that it was at least half a meter in size, much smaller than but at least half a meter. We know that half a meter of it evaporated probably during the explosion, but whether it had a bigger core
or not, we don't know. For that, we need to go to the site and look at the wreckage there. And you know, if these kind of sizes are the
kind of spacecraft that we launched in the past. If you think about Voyager one, Verger two, Pioneer ten, Pioneer eleven, New Horizons, you know, these are spacecraft making their way out of the Solar System, and they were roughling in this boardpark of size you know of older meters and therefore you know, on the other hand, if you think about that was bigger than even Starship, the biggest rocket that we are planning to use. Uh And so what
was is still unresolved. I tend to think that it may have been, for example, an empty trash bag object like a very thin film that maybe was torn apart from a bigger structure. Maybe it's a broken piece of some megastructure like a Dyson sphere that will break up if if the star that that it surrounds evolves and eventually breaks it apart. So to me could have been space trash from another civilization. But you know their trash
is out, sure it will tell us something important. So actually it's very difficult to observe anymore any longer because it's already very far away. But the Ruben observed there will be a new observatory in Chile called the Rubin Observatory that will employ a camera with three point two gigapixels this year, and we'll start to survey the southern sky every four nights, and it could find and more and more like object every few months given its sensitivity.
So I very much look forward to finding family members often more and more. You see. The point is mainstream scientists can deny that Tomomo was weird. They keep saying, oh, it's a rock of a type that we've never seen before, or they say maybe it's a dark comet, you know, a comet that we can't see the commentary tale off. So it was propelled just by cometary tale that is invisible.
But once we have good enough data about another object like and we can look at it with the web telescope, you know, once we have a lot of data, it should be impossible to imagine things that don't exist. If it looks different than a rock, we will know it. And that's what I want to find out with the Rubin observatory data that will come soon.
Why though your colleagues have such a problem with the possibilities of these being a et probe? Why is it? I mean, this is getting out ahead avy and we're not even talking about UAPs, which we actually see. We're talking about these perhaps probes that, according to you, could be a billion years old.
Right, Well, it's because the significance of finding something like that would be great. And when I came up with this suggestion about a lot of attention from the public, from the media, and you know in academia, the strongest force is jealousy. So when people see a lot of attention, they try to step on it, suppress it, say bad things about whoever talks about it. It's basically out of jealousy.
They want the attention to themselves. They don't want anyone to pay attention to what someone else is talking about. That's the first order reason for why there is a lot of pushback. It's basically jealousy for that attention. But the other thing is that you know, it's risky to talk about something new. It's much safer to talk about
things that everyone talked about in the past. So you would rather, as an expert, quote unquote, you would rather say that anything in the sky must be a rock rather than an extraterrestor technological gudget, because you're taking a risk if you were to consider that. But I should say that even the telescope that discovered the mmoire, you know, a few years later, it found another object that was pushed by reflecting sunlight, and that ended up being a
rocket booster from nineteen sixty six. It's called twenty twenty s oh and so it found a technological object that NASA produced, and originally it thought maybe it is a comet or a dark comet. So I think we should take it with a grain of salt. And what happens in the mainstream is that experts always want to argue that there is nothing new, that everything we see represents the past knowledge, because that's the way they maintain their
stature in the field. Imagine if there is space trash from other civilizations out there, and what they called dark comets will end up being technological artifacts. Obviously, it will be embarrassing for them, so they will try to resist it as much as possible. And you know this is not new because yes day, actually we had a very interesting event celebration of art and science in my office
at Harvard. One of the most accomplished sculptors in the United States, his name is Greg Wyatt, created a sculpture of Galileo Galilei looking at the four moons of Jupiter. That's what convinced Galileo that the Earth is not at the center of the universe because the moons are orbiting Jupiter, not the Earth. And so he just made a sculpture,
Greg Wyatt, and he brought it to my office. He donated it to me, and we had a beautiful event in which we also had a historian of science talk about the life and research of Galileo Galilei and her name is Hannah Marcus and she's a professor in his of science and she described how much, how many difficulties Galileo had proposing this. And you know, in nineteen ninety two the Vatican admitted that Galileo was right. That was two decades after we reached the moon, and it's a
bit late. In nineteen ninety two, you know, more than three hundred and fifty years after the death of Gallel to admit that he was right. So, you know, you can see it across the history of science many times over and over again, the ideas that turned out to be right were resisted very strongly by the mainstream at the time, simply because they represented new knowledge. But the good news about physics is that it relies on evidence, on data. It's a learning experience, and we should be
humble to pay attention to anomalist. You know, we should not dismiss them the way the experts quote and quote are doing. We should look at anomalists because it's an opportunity to learn something new. That's all I'm saying. But in answer to your question, you know, it's it's a very common occurrence in the history of science for those proposed new ideas to get rebuffed and and and then even get personal attacks. You know, at least I'm not
in house arrest, you know. The way, Galilo, We're going to.
Take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, doctor Avy Lowe, community US from Harvard University and the Astronomy department will be right back.
A culticate. Dame well love moment any skills. I'm making things so oh in my mind because I analyze their body language. I hear have change in their tongue. Maybe they hate me, so blame me.
Astrophysicist doctor Avy Loeb is my guest today. He is coming to us from Harvard University in the United States, and he is discussing the analysis of this probe that landed in the ocean in I guess twenty fourteen, and most importantly, what was the chemical makeup of this foreign object? Well, I wanted to mention that because when we first talked, you said that you refuse use to sign a non disclosure agreement. I think it was with the Department of Defense.
This is many, many years ago when you started your work, and I would think that as a scientist, if you find exotic metals from this fragment, that would be something that would people would be rejoicing, you know.
Right, Well, I should say that I also initiated the Galileo project. I'm leading a Galileo project at Harvard University. We built an observatory that looks at the unidentified anomalous phenomena, basically monitoring the entire sky in the infrared, optical, radio,
and audio. And we already published a report about half a million objects in the first five months of the operation of this This is the commissioning data, and then we are using machine learning software artificial intelligence to analyze the data and look for any objects that are not familiar, that are different than drones, balloons, airplanes, you know things we know about satellites, and now we are I received funding to build the two additional observatories, one in Pennsylvania
and the second one in Nevada, So altogether, by summer twenty twenty five, we'll have three observatories operating and we will get data on millions of objects in the sky. And even if one in a million happens to be extraterrestrial, you know, that would be big news. Now, of course it's possible. The US government has already some data and the materials the world testimony is in front of the US Congress about it. I would actually love to know
about it because it will save me time. But my point is that you know, the sky is not classified, the oceans are not classified, and the astronomers have been looking at the sky for many centuries. So since Galileo using telescopes and so we don't need to rely on government regarding what lies outside the Solar system. You know, their day job is national security. My day job is to figure out whether we are alone or not, whether
there is a partner out there. And you know, we already know something that previous generations of scientists did not know,
like Carl Sagan didn't know that. We know that at least a few percent of the stars in the Milky Way galaxy have a planet the mass of the Earth within the same separation as Earth is from the Sun. And that means that there are tens of billions of systems like the Earth and the Sun within the Milky Way Galaxy alone, and these systems, you know, if you just if you maintain a humble approach and say that we are not special or unique, and things like us
could have existed, you know, billions of years ago, just because most of the stars are older than the Sun. You know, we know that most of the stars are billions of years other than the Sun, So there could have been things like us billions of years ago. And guess what the voyager spacecraft in a billionaeres will be on the other side of the Milky Way galaxy, So there was plenty of time for voyager like spacecraft, for space trash to come to our backyard from the other
side of the Milky Way, and they would accumulate. You know, these objects would accumulate just like plastics in the ocean over billions of ears, because they're bound by gravity to the Milky Way galaxy.
When you consider, and I think you said twenty percent of the fragments you picked up from the ocean were unusual, is it your belief that some of these are composites, exotic metals that may have been used for the body of a probe of some kind.
Well, so we found the chemical composition, but it's challenging to say exactly what the origin was. Just imagine taking a laptop and throwing it to a fireplace. You will get more than droplets of unusual composition, but you can't really tell that it was technological in origin until you find bigger pieces. And that's what we aim to do
in the next expedition. That's exactly the reason. In order to figure out the nature of the object, we need bigger pieces that were not melted altogether, there is something left from the original object. So that's what we want to find in the next expedition, and for that we need some seed funding right now.
It needs some serious funding, So those of you listening will present some details at the end of this interview to see what we can help can do to help Auv and his research. You mentioned artificial intelligence. Are you able to or one of your students able to actually program the intelligence to look and diagnose and perhaps retrieve data that you can't find.
Yeah, that's exactly what we are doing because we have a very large data set and it would take a human a lot of time to go through it. So we are training the artificial the AI systems to look for objects that are familiar and label those that are unidentified, and this would be extremely important. Now. One of the frontiers in AI right now is using data from different modalities, different probes. So for example, the human brain is using data from vision and from audio and you and combines
it to get a sense of what we see. And that is one of the frontiers right now in AI, combining data from different sensors, different modalities, and we have an acoustic detector audio, we have infred. We have optical and radio, so we hope to develop the tools that would allow us to use all of them together, and that's something we are doing now right now, with the team that works on AI. I should also mention that Elon Musk commented that, you know, the humanity needs to
go to Mars because we are probably alone. And after the elections, Peter Till suggested he said on a podcast, nobody should bet against Elon mask nobody should bet against Elon, and the following day I placed the bet against Elon. I put it in a an essay on medium dot com where I said, look, the tens of billions of stars with an earthlike planet next to them, just in the Milky Way galaxy alone, and you know a trillion galaxies in the observable universe and many more beyond the
cosmic horizon. I'm willing to bet that something like us existed billions of years ago in the Milky Way galaxy. And I'm willing to put one percent of my net
worth forward. If Elon is willing to put one percent of his net worth into a pool of money, that will be four billion dollars, taking his par much less from my path but we can use that money to search for any technological debris that came from another civilization within the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. In fact, a week ago I published submitted a paper that describes what kind of a space telescope can find such interstellar objects as they come close to the Sun. Because the
Sun is a lamp post that illuminates the darkness of space, and when an object comes close to the Sun, we can see it very clearly. So I designed the parameters of a space telescope. It just needs to have less than a meter in size a mirror. And if we were to have this bet with Elin within a decade, that should be able to report whether there are any technological artifacts among all the objects that come into the
Solar System to our vicinity. And you know, if we don't find anything, this amount of money, or four billion dollars, is actually less than was invested in the search for dark matter. And we haven't found the nature of dark matters so yet. And I say that the public cares much more about whether we are a loan then what is the nature of dark metal. So it makes a lot of sense to put a similar amount of money in the search for technological debris, space trash, or even
functioning devices. And so I very much hope that this bet will get to the attention of Elon and that he will take me on it because I know exactly what needs to be done if we have the money. Yeah, I love that, And I'm also willing to put another percent of my net worth to his account if we don't find anything.
Oh my god, I love that challenge, Abby. I think it's fantastic. When we talked last, you had mentioned that one of yours you asked one of your students to go to the d D charts and find He found this twenty fourteen medior. Will the artificial intelligence, if you program it in such a way, be able to look at those charts and find other interstellar probes that have perhaps come into the atmosphere.
Yeah, so that's exactly what the postoc of mine is now doing. A postoc within the Galileo project that I'm leading, develops AI models to identify interstellar objects from the data that will come to our attention from any telescope, any including the Rubin Observatory. So he actually is using AI to improve the efficiency of finding such objects. Exactly to your point.
Okay, that's excellent. I have to ask this, and you've already brought it up. We when we have so many of these UAP sidings un identified area of an hour of sightings, do you even consider or get involved or does the Galileo Project even have a division that is like, okay, this is very anomalous. We need to look a little closer here.
Yeah. So I'm getting reports from people every day. But in addition to that, for example, there was there were the reports about the New Jersey drones and about some other interesting sites. And we are basically looking at the information that we receive and deciding whether to send a set of instruments to detect whatever is being claimed if
it looks sufficiently intriguing. As you know, the White House suggested that the New Jersey drones were human made and in fact fully understood, and so there was nothing unusual about those drones. It didn't come from an adversarial nation, according to an announcement that came from President Trump. But I mean, and you know, these drones were also behaving like drones. There were not anomalous in the flight characteristics, so that was not surprising. But there are reports all
the time about unidentified anomalous phenomenon. If we have an opportunity to look for them, we will do that.
Okay, so you could adjust your telescopes to actually look at something that's perhaps orbiting the planet.
Well, we have those observatories, the one that we have right now operating at Harvard University, but then two others that we will set in Pennsylvania and Nevada. There might be a fourth one in Indiana and communication with people that are willing to fund it. But these are stationary observatories.
They are fixed in their location. However, we developed some set of cameras and sensors that we can deploy on a truck or bring with us us in a suitcase, and those are the ones that those mobile ones are the ones that we can carry to places that are of great interest.
Amazing, you know, it's funny. I think of what you're doing, which is analyzing fragments from these meteors. Do you have a protocol to actually look at like impact craters to see if they're they could have fragments or even the meteors that we have that we know are metals. Are you going, I mean that's crazy. Of course you need a whole team or whole legion of researchers to support you. But is that a consideration.
Well, that's a very interesting point. But the thing is right now, we use the speed of the object to figure out whether it came from outside the Solar system. So if we just have a crater, we can't truly tell at what speed the object came because the size of the crater is dictated by the amount of energy carried by the object, and the energy depends on its
mass and its speed. And since we have no knowledge the independent knowledge of the mass of the object, you just know how much energy came in without knowing what was the speed. And because there is this the generesy, you can trade speed for more mass or vice versa. And so if we just have craters or meteorites that
are recovered, we can't really tell where they came from. However, if we examined, for example, interstellar meteors, where we had velocity information because the US government, for example, monitored them before they hit the air, so we know their speed or after they hit their in those cases, we know their interstellar and we analyze the materials from them that would allow us to find the fingerprints of interstellar meteors.
So once we know what interstellar meteors look like in terms of their structure composition, then we can go back to all these collections of meteorites and see which meteorites resemble those that we know are interstellar.
You see, it sounds like a future project.
That's a future product. But before getting there, we need to look at the ones that we have velocity information about, and like the meteor from twenty fourteen that we went after. So that's why this work is important, because if we find the fingerprints of interstellar we will then look for those fingerprints among the meteorites for which we don't know the velocity.
The speed is your theory that it's simply space junk that you're looking for, or are you going out and a little bit of a lemon saying, we are also looking for potential alien probes who are seeking out somezation.
Well with the observatories that we have, we're looking for objects that are flying in the atmosphere. These are these need to be functional devices. They cannot be just the brick colliding with Earth because otherwise they will burn up as meteors. Okay, and so in the context of interstellar meteors, like the expedition that we took. The assumption is that, you know, if it is technological, it's not functioning. It's
not functional anymore. It just collided with Earth. And if you think about the probs that we launched, like a voyager, they will not be functional. Once voyager exits from the Solar System, it will be in ten thousand years. The equipment will not be working. So it will collide with a planet like the Earth the way that a rock does, except it will be of very different material strength than
a rock. It would look like a rock of a type that might call have never seen before, you know, just like if the Tesla roads the cover to collide with Earth in twenty million years, which is quite possible, actually, it would look like a rock that was never seen before. And so for those interstellar meteors, that's the approach. But if they don't collide with Earth, you know, then we need to study their composition in a different way.
I got you. We're gonna take another short break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, doctor Avy Lobe, discussing space probes and other foreign objects. We'll be right back with you. The question our guest today is posing, are there probes that are visiting our planet, our neighboring planets from outside of our galaxy? And what does this mean for us? Is this something we should be paying attention to? All Right?
So you go out, you got your six million dollars, You're going out again in August. You you dredge the water, you pull up a machine. How does that change our evolution? How do we I think it profoundly changes our understanding if you qualify what you have as a machine. But I'm curious to know what your feelings are about the vulging a machine an alien origin to Earth lanes.
Yeah, so let's think of the Tesla Roads the car as an example. Calculations show that it may collide with Earth in twenty millionaears. Okay, so suppose it were to collide with Earth, it would appear as a meteor, There will be a fire borer, and then whatever remains in the core of that car may sink down to the ocean floor. Now, my colleagues would argue there is nothing unusual about it because it's bound to the Solar System. It's probably a rock it looked a bit strange, but
it's just another asteroid. But if there would be in twenty millionaires a curious scientist that would say, no, I want to check it out because it showed material strength. It actually exploded very low in the atmosphere, and it showed material strength that is much tougher and all rocks. Then what that person would find is, perhaps, you know, the core of the car lying on the ocean floor. Okay,
so that that is a very clear signature. You can easily say this is a technological object When people ask me, how would I know? It's very easy. You know, if you find a big piece in the wreckage of that meteorite, you know that, then you can tell whether it was a rock or a technological gadget. And the question is if it's a gudget and it has buttons on it, you know, should we press a button?
I love it, but let's stretch our minds a little bit more. Abby. I believe that when we know we are not the only ones in our cosmos, we automatically have to look at our human lives much differently. But how do you feel about that?
Oh? Yeah, I I think it's really urgent for us to find alien intelligence. Right now, we are focused on artificial intelligence as the next big thing because it might actually become much more capable than the human brain, you know, within the next decade. But AI is not just artificial intelligence. It could be alien intelligence. And in that case, it could also be much more advanced and than us than
the human brain. And so we have an opportunity to realize that there is something smarter than us, you know, and that would be a big revelation for humanity because it will give us a sense of humility. Right now, we think of ourselves at the top of the food chain. We eat animals that are lower in the food chain in restaurants, and we don't have any evidence for something smarter than us. But AI will bring it here, and if it comes from another star, I think it will
serve the same purpose as you know, the Messiah. In religious texts, the idea is that there might be peace and prosperity brought to earth by a messianic future. And the way I see it is that we would realize that there is a smarter kid on our block because they were able to arrive to our doorstep before we arrived to their doorstep, and that will change everything, because it may inspire us to think more broadly rather than
engaging conflicts on this earth. You know, we're spending two point four trillion dollars every year on military budgets worldwide, and we could have invested the same amount of money instead of trying to kill other people or prevent other people from killing us, we could have invested it in exploring space. And so I hope it will bring us to our senses. We would realize we are all, you know, in the same boat, the earth, and we should cooperate
rather than fight each other. And you know, realizing there is someone else, a neighbor out there, will change everything. You know, when my daughters were young, they thought that they are at the center of the universe because we paid a lot of attention to them. They haven't met other people at the beginning, but then when they look through the window, they would see other houses on the street.
But if you are to us them, they would insist that there is probably nothing worth as as much attention as they deserve because they got all the attention at home. That's exactly the status that my colleagues astrobiologists are at. They think that it's an extraordinary claim to imagine something like humans, you know, something as smart as we are out there, even though we know of many houses in
our cosmic street that look just like ours. And I, you know, I realized that when my daughters went on the first day to the kindergarten, they had a psychological shock, but it was important for them to mature by realizing there are many other kids like them, and some of them are smarter. They learned from that experience. So we are still in the early phase where we haven't matured yet. We think it's you know, it's an extraordinary claim that
requires extraordinary evidence. I say, no, you know, there must have been things like us many billions of years ago, and that's the most likely assumption. And in fact, it's an ordinary claim to imagine something like us. It's presumptuous. It's arrogant to think otherwise, and we just need to find ordinary evidence for this ordinary claim. But the problem right now is there is no funding from federal agencies to look for extraterrestrial intelligence. And I think it's just inappropriate.
I think this is a subject that public cares about, the taxpayers care about. It's a matter of common sense to imagine something like us elsewhere, you know, within the Milky Way galaxy.
So let's just.
Search for any artifacts that they may have sent in the vicinity of Earth. And it doesn't need just to be in the form of UAP unidentified anormalous phenomena. That it could be also in the form of space trash that is flying around every now and then the Earth collides with one of them.
That's amazing. Do you believe that. Are we still using radio telescopes?
Yes?
Okay. Do you think that we could find somebody to really dial in the AI to find an ety civilization with?
Yeah, So this is the traditional method looking for radio signals that has been you know, used over the past almost seventy years. We haven't found signals that indicate an artificial origin because you know, it's just like waiting for a phone call at home. Nobody may call you when you're waiting if you're waiting for a short time. I mean, we've been searching for less than a century and maybe a signal was sent a million years ago, it's now a million light years away, we would not detect it.
So yes, to answer your question, AI can be very helpful and in fact, it's being used right now to analyze radio signals from the best radio telescopes on Earth. But so far we haven't found any signal. I'm not surprised. I think it makes much more sense to look for packages in our mailbox or in our backyard. You know, ani bott that was thrown by a neighbor that may have arrived, or an empty trash bag from a neighbor. You know, these kinds of things may be out there.
We haven't such for those things, and we should do it.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like you're a fan of the Frank Drake hypothesis of sending out and seeing if somebody or picking up a signal from a distant planet.
Well, it's just that we've tried that. And you know Albert Einstein said, if you keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result, then you're probably not smart.
As we conclude ALVI, and it's always fun speaking with you. In the perfect world that you are in would be an ideal scenario for you in recovery.
So it depends what we find. I mean, if it's at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, we can bring it up examine it. That would be amazing if we were to find a piece of a technological gadget that is not human made. However, you know, even if we see something at a distance, just as a result of it coming close to the Sun, and then you know, if it comes within the orbit of Mercury, for example, such an object will heat up to more than six hundred degrees and we would see it glowing, and in
fact it may get evaporated. So we can analyze the material that comes off it from a distance. We can do it remotely. That's my idea about the space telescope, and so we can actually study objects that come close to the Sun get very hot and emit a lot of radiation. They also reflect a lot of radiation from the lamp post sun. The Sun is very useful as a lamp post, and we haven't used it for that purpose so yet in terms of finding interstellar objects that
come close to it. And I'm suggesting let's look for the keys under the lamp post.
Exactly would you have to have permission if you found a technological object in one of your dredges? Would you seek permission before release in it to the public.
Well, first I want to understand what it is before doing anything. You know, in principle, the way science operated in the past is that if you go to a site of a meteor and you find the remnants of the meteor and if it doesn't lie within the territorial boundaries of a nation, then in principle, you can bring it to a laboratory and study it. That's what happened
with meteorites before. This is a very very unusual scenario where the meteoritis may not be a rock, but if it happens outside the territorial boundaries of countries, then it's available for signs to examine. If it's within the jurisdiction of a country, then you need to get permission to take it out of there.
So if you found you were dredging off a New Guinea island and you found a piece of a technological object, you need to get permission from them to take it back to the United States.
Well, no, the site that we're talking about of the meteor from twenty fourteen was outside the territorial waters of Papua New Guinea. But at any event, we are if we go there again. We are collaborating with University at Papua New Guinea and as a result, it's called the Unit TECH and so it will be done in cooperation with the local authorities, with the university, and we will do it in partnership with members of that university.
Yeah, that sounds that sounds like a collaborative type of discovery, which is wonderful. Doctor av Low. Always a pleasure to have you on the program. Give us a sense, tell us where they can people can read more about you, give us your website and if you're starting to go fund me for this next exploration, and where people can donate.
So I would recommend checking avilob at medium dot com. I put essays every day or two about the latest updates about interesting news in space science, astrophysics, the search for intelligent life AI. But and then we have also the Galileo Project website where we have a button saying donate to us. But if we are talking about a significant contribution, for example, towards the expedition, the person can
contact me directly. And then there will be a Netflix film coming out within a year, Oh my god, that will feature the expedition that were with me over there and will include the footage in fact, they were with me yesterday and it should be quite exciting to watch. And of course there are papers that came out from the expedition from the Gallel project that one can find on the Galileo Project website. So there is a lot of materials out there about the work we're doing. And
I'm very excited about this year. I think we may be up to something.
I hope that your wish is granted and you find the technological object in your next sweep thank you.
By the way, there would be. And there is already a TED talk that then I gave in twenty twenty four. It was ranked and number five in popularity among old TED talks. So if anyone wants to see a summary eighteen minute summary of what we found so far, check it out.
And by the way, I saw that it's a very excellent tech talk. It was July of last year. It's called My Search for Proof Aliens Exist, and it's very well done at a full crowd, and it was a standing ovation, So obviously people were inspired as much as we all are. A fantastic much success on this new venture. Let's have you back on the program after perhaps early next year, late this year, and by the way, when's the new book coming out?
Are you still working out Within a year it should be delivered to the press, and so I assume in twenty twenty six it will come out. I'm not sure exactly which month, but we should be finished with it by the end of twenty twenty five.
Wow, you have so much energy. It's it's wonderful, all right.
So in life I realize it's always good to be optimistic, because life is sometimes self fulfilling prophecy. So if you're optimistic, good things will happen.
Yeah, you know, I like it because you're very transparent about what you're doing. I think there's so much that is hidden. If the government does have evidence of extraterrestual craft, will never know about it because they're paranoid. They're you know, they don't want people to know about that. So and I really appreciate your openness in your work of the So thank you very much.
You know, the Vatican try to suppress what Galileo saw, but eventually it admitted that Galileo was right. So I have hope that if the evidence is out there, we will all know about it eventually.
Fantastic, great talking with you is always and we look forward to speaking with you again.
Thanks for having me.
So it's good to have av on the show. I go much further than he does. He's, you know, although he's very outspoken. What happens if we determined that these fragments are extraterrestrial? You know, I mean that's a form of first contact. I think he's wanting to find fragments. I have this feeling that you know, I did a for instance, he does his next dredging operation and he finds a part of an engine, or a part of a panel, a mechanical device of some kind. How do
you explain that? Now, he did not sign an NDA with ADD or NASA, so he can spit say whatever he wants. But would they freak out about that? I think would bring up a lot of questions. In my heart of hearts, I hope he does find fragments of a device, of a probe, of some exotic technology that can't be explained. I mean, I'm tired of this, this space agency cover up. We've had it for decades. They're
just afraid. And you know, the more I thought about it, a really good sign that they're covering things up is the requesting the theologians to respond to the first contact question. That's a big indicator right there that they know that they have a problem. And so you don't go to an antiquated service, a out of touch group of people in the religious sector to get detailed and highly sensitive reactions, deeply visceral responses. You're not going to get them. Those
people are shut down. You got to go somewhere else. So that's to me as an indicator that they are covering up likely you know, ships devices contact. And then the worst case scenario is that they have already been in contact for decades and that there's some kind of agreement that they show up occasionally, do some research, take some people on board, and do some analysis, and there you go. That would be That would be utter insanity.
If that is the truth, If they are if our government is actually in the know to the point where they're actually allowing in exchange for whatever abductions and minerals and things like that, I don't know. I mean, I want to guess, But if that's true, heads should roll in the same manner that I feel that these trillion dollar rovers on Mars, I jokingly say that they're bumping into staircases, that are bumping into columns, are bumping into temples.
And if it turns out that these administrators have known about this for you know, a long time, then heads should roll, they should take all those guys down, and because that's just crazy, you know, that's just restricting our evolution. So who knows, who knows finn to think about though, it really is. So I hope you enjoyed that. Hey, if you're enjoying Earth Ancient's Destiny or Earth Ancient Special
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Can't miss it. All right, that's it for this program, and when I think my guest today, doctor Avy Lowe, discussing his latest research. As always, the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock all right, take care and be well and we will talk to you next time.
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