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My graduates from my school being forced bag drop bag drop, Mike, drop bag, drop bag drop.
This is kind of like a school college almost in a sense. Yeah, better than so, you know, we want to give you guys all the tools that you need to be successful in business. And what's been coming up recently we posted on Instagram is, uh, you know, intellectual property cases. Right. So we look at card E B and she trademarked her signature line you want to say the line, I gotta say it, so she trademar she trademarked that. Then we had the Jordan logo, the Jumpman logo.
That was an interesting situation where the original photographer of that photo sued Nike because they pretty much kind of copied his photo some people think they did, yeah, and
he lost the lawsuit on that. And then we also have the Fortnite case right where Fortnite, if anybody is not familiar, is the most popular video game in the world right now, and they do all these different dances and the creators of these dances were never compensated for it, so they sued Fortnite and it's actually still in litigation, but it's pretty complicated. So it's one thing to be a creative and to create, right, It's another thing to actually own what you create and to be able to
make money off of it. So we're going to talk about today is intellectual property, licensing, copyright, trademark, all that stuff. So we thought what better way to go into this conversation but to bring an expert in the field. So we have an attorney to being Franco thank you for coming. Yes, she is a superstar attorney. She has her own law firm. She has the own law firm called the Franco Law Firm. And that's another thing we do with the show too.
We want to bring like the best of the best and professionals and to highlight them and to give We don't want to just talk, we want to actually, you know, bring people that are experts in the field and let them, you know, add into the conversation. So that's what we're doing. And then she's also fresh off tour with dj V.
All Right, I'm gonna take you everywhere and go.
Yeah. So if anybody doesn't know, dj MV is heavy in real estate right now, and he has real estate courses that he offers all throughout the country and he's put together a real estate dream team of mortgage brokers, attorneys, all kinds of different people that are related to the real estate industry. And she is one of the people that are on tour. So you are very lucky to have her give you some free game today. So thank you for coming.
Appreci Thank you so much.
Yes, yes, so we're gonna jump right into it, Troy.
You will so, I mean, obviously you're gonna share your expertise and a lot of us are novices in this field. So pretty much what is the difference between a patent, a copyright, and a trademark.
Let's start there, okay, So pat copyrights, and trademarks are all intellectual property. And what intellectual property is. It's like something that you create with your mind. Right, It's like a creative express and those different areas are areas that you could create you could protect your your creative expression, right.
So a patent is a protection that you get for an invention.
So if you have something that's new, that's innovative, that's going to change the way that people you know, live and work technology, those things are patentable and they're very technical, right, so you actually need to be a patent attorney to practice patent law. But those things are gonna patent are going to protect inventions. Copyrights are going to protect literary works. So certain things that you that you create, but it has to be expressed so it can be an idea.
So intellectual property can't be an idea. You can't protect an idea, so you have to like express it. So if it's a writing a story, you got to write it down. If it's a song, you have to write the lyrics or you could record the music. If it's art, you gotta draw, you know, it has to be drawn or whatever. It has to be spress, so somebody.
Could that's that's for trademarks. That's for copy copyright trademarks.
And trademark is basically is gonna gonna bring somebody back to the source of a good or service, right, So it represents your business, your brand, and it's going to put the public on notice to know like where to go for that particular product or item. So there's two reasons. One, you want to protect your your sort of like your work.
Right, So you create.
Something, you have a business, you put all this sweat equity into it, and you have like goodwill.
You know, as your brand.
Grows, they expect a certain quality, is a certain standard from your brand. So you want that to be protected so you can make money off of it. And then the government, the Copyright and Trademark Office, they want to make sure that somebody gets hurt from your product or.
Your service, that they know who to go to for that right company.
So like the Fortnite when they were trying to do the dance moves, that's a cop copyright issue, right, yes, And it's a copyright issue because I just want everybody to understand because legal jargon can be a little confusing. Yeah, right, and even for like I'm in business and I'm kind of confused by like copyrights and trademarks. So all right, So, well, the dance moves is a copyright because that's something that it's like a physical thing that they made up, right.
So they like they created it, and it's yeah, it's something like physical that they did. It's like a creative expression like choreography, you know, dance moves. And there's going to be an issue even with that when they go to copyright those because from what I understand, all fonds of very Yeah. So he already got denied because they said it's only three moves, like it's not enough to be choreography.
And I think that's gonna that's gonna.
Sort of change the way the law is because like now everything is media, everyone has a camera, everyone's like creating dances, doing all this type of stuff that has to be protected somehow.
So like when black boy Ja he does that move and the kids just recreated that's not really choreography what they're saying.
Yeah, so that that that's going to be an I think that's an issue that's up for discussion.
And then all right, son. So then so then the trademark, like the Jordan logo, that's a trademark, right.
So in that case they sued for copyright because the person who took it was a photographer, so photography, it's a picture that's going to be something that's going to be copyrightable. So they're suing for the photo that that what was it that Nike did the comparable comparable photo but also comes into questions because now they use that as a logo, right, But he lost because they said it's really not substantially Yeah, And it's interesting.
I think they said that the track suit it was.
The backdrop in the picture. The suit and the photos are slightly different. And it's interesting too because people were saying, well, you can't take credit for an image, but you actually can though, because I remember when Cameron had the album I don't know if you're a Cameron fan, but we're Cameron fans. Yeah, an album called SDE a while ago, and the logo was the NBA logo, which is Jerry West but instead of like the basketball, it actually had
like a firearm in his hands. So the NBA wasn't too happy about that, so they shut it down and he couldn't use it. So it's just interesting to see that, you know, somebody can come up with an idea, but if they don't actually do the right legal steps to somebody else can kind of take the idea and now they own it, right.
And that's what's been happening for years.
Like people who are ignorant to this type of protection that it exists, they just create stuff.
And people who know they take it. And you know, just like all of the.
Artists that came like you know in the eighties, nineties, sixties, like they didn't know that they had an actual you know, ass that someone else is making money off.
And that's who we want to really because especially in our community, like we're very creative. We're creative people, but we don't always understand the business side of things and how to monetize it in the legal steps to take. So like you said, I mean, we'll make it and create it and then somebody else will take it and now they actually own it, right. So if somebody wants to actually go about setting it up right, like what's the steps of legally copywriting something or trademarking or if
they don't know the difference. Should they do it via a lawyer, can they do it themselves online? What's your advice?
Okay, So well, one, I have to give a disclaimer, So for anybody who's listening, what I say is.
For information only. I'm not your lawyer unless.
You hire me.
Let's have to say that. But so if they want to, So the thing is, you should always hire a lawyer.
Because just with anything, like if there's somebody who's an expert in the field, you want to kind of rely on that person's expertise for nuances and things like that.
But that being said, you can do it yoursel out.
Like for copyrights, you could go on copyright dot Gov and you kind of they make it really easy for you. So they kind of lay out what are you trying to copyright? Is it you know, music? Is it a book or something?
Is it?
So they give you the options and then you select and they kind of walk you through the application process and you could kind of click on stuff that will give you like explanations like if you're confused as to what they're asking.
So that's that with copyright. With trademark it's a little bit more technical.
So again I do think you should get a lawyer, but their website has tons of videos on how to do it.
It gets overwhelming.
But if you feel like, you know, I want to protect my stuff and I just don't have the money to invest in the attorney, they have videos that you could look at, and it's also sort of like you could you could be walked through the process, but the search is a little more tricky because it's just so much to go through, and their website is not really set up to give you like comprehensive results, like you could type in Starbucks with two S two s's at the end. You know, two s's at the end, and
nothing will come up, you know what I mean. So, but if you put it you know exactly how it's spelled. Of course tons of stuff will come up, but you know. So that's how you can see how it's not that, you know, it's not that easy for someone who is just a lay person to do it, but it's possible, you know what I mean. O.
Speaking speaking of a trademark, we actually behind the scenes were talking about a trademark case that people may be not familiar with, but it involves some like a high profile person Jay Z versus Iconics And for those who don't know what who are Iconics brand is, they're actually the company he sold Rockaway too.
You want to touch on that a little bit.
Yeah, sure, So jay Z sold his Rockaway brand, his clothing brand, to Iconics, right, and they're like a big clothing company.
They own a bunch of different you know, clothing lines.
And so they ended up suing jay Z because he has rock Nation and they're like, well, you sold us this, you know, it adds some value to it, and now you're still using it essentially like you use your Rognation so and that that brand is already associated with you, so it's diminishing our value.
And so they had.
A lawsuit, you know, and they were going back and forth and they actually ended up in arbitration.
Arbitration. Yeah, so the arbitration.
The arbitration process is like the really crazy part of the story because during that process he finds out that hey, there's no diversity in the arbitrators and he like files a suit for that and he wins yes, and yeah.
So he so so, okay, arbitration process is sort of like an outside of court process.
I was going to say, because people that might not know what arbitration.
Is Yeah, So in most contracts, especially like when it comes to business, there's going to be an arbitration clause. So they don't want to have to go to court like the normal avenue go to court and have a judge a side. They just they rather go to like basically like a boardroom and have someone who's an arbitrator sit and listen to everybody who's like specializes in that
area or whatever. So the parties get to choose who that arbitrated is going to be, Like they get a list, they get to vet and agree on who that person is going to be or maybe a few people they'll choose. And so what jay Z said is that, wait, there's nobody of color on this list.
There was like I think there.
Were like two people of a hundred, yeah, something like that, and so he was like, no, I'm not doing this.
So he basically said I'm not going to.
Go forward with the arbitration, went to court, and actually before the judge made of decision, the company was like, you know what, We're going to make sure that we do right and go out and get more you know, African American and other people of color to be able to.
Make indirectly providing opportunities for people of.
Absolutely like he changed the game, like he does.
So many levels.
Every time we like Jane to the rescue again, we've kept our streak of talking about We've been consistent mandatory. Yeah all right, Well, one other thing before we go to the next segment, can you just briefly talk about licensing and with that entails.
So when you own these different types of intellectual property, patent, copyright, trademarks, the way that most people kind of really make money from them is that they license them to other people to use them. So as you build your brand, your brand kind of has clout, you know, like for instance.
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Who was it Jeff Bezos just brought the Washington Washington. Yeah, so we know newspapers are dying, right, so you can get news everywhere now.
So, but that name has a certain amount of status.
So like if something's in the Washington Post, you believe it, right, So that's what people. You know, once their brand creates value or has a value to it, you could license that to other people because like say if they put out a story on now on the Washington Post, say it was a license and they licensed the name to him. He puts out a story, people gonna believe it. So
that's why people want to license established brands. And so you can do it in terms of allowing them just to use it for a certain purpose or in a certain area, or to do you know, in connection with something specific. So you could do it broad or narrow, and you could get royalties from it, or you could just charge your fee for it.
And that's going to be through like a contract.
Okay, all right, Well, so now you have one oh one of intellectual property. So the next segment, we are going to go into my favorite part of the show, which is Storytime. All right, boys and girls, So we are back for another edition of story Time. So usually Storytime is the last segment of the show if you're a loyal follower. But the good thing about having your own show is that you can do whatever you want.
So we decide to push it up. So we're going to follow up with the explanation of trademarking and we're going to tell you guys a story. So we're going to go into storytime.
All right.
So this is a very interesting story, right, So it involves the Beatles in Apple. Right.
Two things you may.
Know a a thirty year court case between the Beatles in Apple right, crazy, So the Beatles, right and seventies minutes seventies nineteen seventy eight. Well, I think before that they started a company called Apple Corp. Right. Apple Corp Was a holding company. It had a couple different uses, but the main thing was like, they're in house record label. Right. I don't know why they decided to name Apple, but that was the name Apple Corp.
That's interesting.
So in nineteen seventy seven, George Harrison. You know what George Harrison is?
The Beatle of course.
Well, nobody really knows him. He's the Beatle that you never heard of, right, most people never heard of him. So he hit his ironic because nobody's heard of him, and he heard of a company that nobody's heard of that just started out in nineteen seventy seven around that time, called Apple Inc. So he says, okay, this is pretty interesting.
It's a company called Apple. Right. So he goes to Apple Corp. The Beatles Company, and he tells them about a company called Apple Inc. Right, So the Beatles Apple Corp. Suits Apple Inc. Because they're using the trademark name Apple. They already trademarked the name Apple, can't use it. So in nineteen eighty one they settled a lawsuit for eighty thousand dollars. Right. An interesting thing is that part of the settlement is that Apple Corp. The Beatles Company agreed
to never go into the computer business. Apple Inc. Steve Jobs Company agreed to never go into the music business.
We're going to to stay in your lank lane.
They could both use Apple, but they have to stay in their lank Okay. So it's going pretty good for a couple of years, and then nineteen eighty six Apple comes out with musical instrument Digital Interface. Right, Yes, I was good.
That was good.
So that you want to talk about that, I.
Can briefly touch it. So that's just a sound chip in the canter. So this is before you gotta think within eighties now, So like this is like computers. They're not even in color. It's just like the green typing. So he's putting a sound chip in the computer. They're looking at it like, wait, sound, that could be music.
It could be music because the music it's about to say.
Something I was gonna say. I think.
It also allowed them to the computers to communicate with music.
Leang, yes, yes, yes, yes it did, so it allowed it. It's kind of like the beginning stages of putting music on a computer. So he said, hey, you're not so fast. You promised you promised not to do is Oh you brought your promise. So now they suit him again, right, nineteen eighty six they sued him, so in nineteen ninety one they settled for twenty six million dollars. Right, but they did something that was very petty at the time. So they they're nineteen ninety one Macintosh Alert. The name
is Sumo and it's pronounced so soon. So it's like a kind of like you know, and it predicts what's going to happen in the future, right, like saying like so.
So that was part of the sampling of sound on the operating system. So like they had a new operating system. Now you can sample sound again that sounds like music, We're gonna have to sue.
Yeah.
No.
So then this is where the big cakes comes in, right, two thousand and three the launch of iTunes. So they just said, okay, we're not even gonna play around anymore. We're going in the music business right soon. Too much money out here not to be get. We're not going to be stopped by the Beatles, right, so they go into full fledged with iTunes. So of course Apple Corp. The beetle company, right.
But they suit them this time because of the logo. So like their logo is an actual green apple, and the iTunes logo was an Apple that had like a little piece bitten out of it. So it was like, wait, that looks like our.
Logo partially the logo but also the music is well yeah yeah. So but that case lasted to two thousand and seven and Apple actually won that case. Right. So now Apple Inc. Owns the trade marks to Apple, right, but they licensed out a certain you know, they licensed out trademarks back to Apple Corp. Nobody really knows the terms of the deal, but it's said that they settled for five hundred million dollars. So Apple Inc. Paid Apple Corp. Five hundred million dollars and they finally were done with
it after thirty years. And it's ironic because now the Beatles when So when Steve Jobs, he used he was a big Beatles fan, right, huge, and he was disappointed that they couldn't get the Beatles on iTunes because of this thirty year case. Right So now when I think it was his two thousand and seven speech.
It's Keno address in two thousand and seven. He intros it by coming into the Beatles music, so the crowd is like, oh wait, we're about to get Beatles' music. He has Paul McCartney playing February two thousand and they settle and they released Beatles' music, but as solo artists, so Jeorge Harrison's solo music, John Lennon, Paul McCartney.
I don't think Ringo had it out. Did Ringle have al? I don't know. He might, I don't know.
So their solo catalogs were released, and then three years later, in twenty ten, I believe November twenty ten, the Beatles catalog comes to Eyes Tunes, which is like a big moment because that catalog is ridiculous.
You know, Michael Jackson owned the Beatles catalog.
ATV.
It's another conversation. So why are we telling your story because it's interested in a and also it is highlights the power of trademarks. Right, So the Beatles made almost six hundred million dollars they made between the three cases, they made five hundred and twenty nine million, right, kind of by accident because they just randomly picked the name Apple, I pretty sure, right, And they didn't really have any intentions of Apple Corp. To like be a multi billion
dollar company. They was like the house thing, right.
I'm not sure what music came out on Apple Records.
I don't think any music came out.
I think they just ended up owning all the Beatles' music. And like you said, they had other businesses underneath their like tax shelters exactly.
Yeah, So just from having the luck of the draw and picking and picking a good name. But more importantly than picking a good name, they trademarked the name, right, because they could have picked the name and then trade like so how many businesses and companies And we're going back to the fortnite thing where we have good ideas,
but that one step changes the dynamic five hundred million dollars. Right, So people say a lot of times it's like, well it's expensive to trademark, or I don't have the money. Well you either spend five hundred dollars to trademark or five hundred million.
Recorder could do that.
You could have gotten if you did trademarket, right.
I think like that's what we saw. Fifty did that.
When he started to get the strap campaign, it was like wait, oh, people really like this trade monkey, this is.
Mine, Yeah, somebody want to use it.
Going back to Cameron, he's notorious for that. He trademarks everything. Remember when him and Jim Jones.
Had to you know what that that that's a sad story.
Well they made it, they rectified it.
Yeah, it was over burg Gang.
He trademark Bergen just in case, Yes, just in case. So if anybody's a Diplomat fan, you know.
What, anybody from the early two thousands.
So it was like something that they were just saying. It was like it wasn't like an official thing because they would dipset Diplomat. Then the burg Gang was like just something that they just came up with, right. But then Jim Jones actually had a crew, like a offset of Dipset that he was calling Burgang right then. I think he had like bird Gang records and oh he's going full Fletcher disc and Cameron without actually notifying him
trademarks the name. So Jesus, he's no longer allowed to use burg Gang unless he pays Cameron.
That's what friends are for, exactly when you see something.
It's also rumored that he trademarked jelly Fan.
That's yeah, yeah, yeah, recently recently.
I'm not sure if that's true or not.
Shout out the jelly Fan. He just actually transferre from Minnesota when going I don't know yet.
He just left. He did two years at Minnesota and now he's.
Transferring Isaiah Washington. If anybody is not a basketball fan New York City street ball legend, not even a street ball legend, not just a legend basketball basketball legend. Who he he He had a crew called Jellyfan, huge.
Trademark by his the move man that layup that open finger roll layup.
Yeah. Well, people might not be basketball fans, but I heard that kim On because the interesting thing about that, so the kid was in high school right and he created a huge buzz for himself in high school, like all throughout the city. Then it went national now with social media, went all over the world where you got kids saying jelly fam and it's like a finger roll and it's like it just went viral. So then Nike
started printing up shirts. But the jelly fan sure, and of course, of course he's not getting paid for he's in high school.
I think Nike spot might be a sponsor for the Saint Raymonds so like they felt like we had a connection.
He played for Saint Raymonds.
Yeah, but he came up with the idea. So it's all going back to Apple, right, whereas we can relate this on small left, like that's a perfect example jelly fan. Right. I don't know the rules if he could actually trademarket it not since he's in high school and it's rules against the basketball places. But long story short, Nike did that and they made money off of it, right, right, So and if.
He didn't protect it, then he can't really do that until police against Now it's too late. Now it was too late.
Well if he can, if they didn't protect it, he could still protect it and then they would still have to pay him for using it. If they're still continuing to make money off of it, right, But if you don't protect it, then you have no way of really, so what registration does.
It allows you to basically sue and be able to recover.
So like with the fortnite ks, how they had to pull out of the case because they didn't properate anything, and so it's like, okay, the government's like are the federal court is like, well, if you didn't copyright it, then you can't police against it, so you need to go do that, and so.
They pulled out.
But if they do, if they are successful with their copyright, then they will be able to sue them.
For you see, like celebrities are doing that, like when they have children. Now it's like the.
First thing they do is I'm copyrighting that name, I think. But they lost that because there was an event planning company called Blue Ivy.
Though they're still fighting it doesn't does an event plan or she she has a company named Blue Ivy, and so you know, Beyonce's a beast with her game. She has she has her own company that just has her trademarks and that's the best way to do it.
Well, yeah, well there you have it. The power of trademarks. You have to understand the law of people is one thing. To play the game is another thing. To play the game smart and efficiently. You don't have to be the smartest player to win. But you have to know who work with the contact and you have to know opportunities when you see it. And I'm sure these guys that made these dances up before they never knew. They just don't know their neighbor, especially Carlton Things. I don't know,
that's shame on him. But the Millie Rock and this is they're just doing it in their community, like they're not thinking this is going to go viral to the world. But you never know.
They have you down, you know.
Now you have to know.
So my graduates from my school being forced back drop bag drop, Mike, drop back drop drop.
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wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed, and listeners of this show will get a seventy five dollars sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed dot com slash pod katz thirteen. Just go to Indeed dot com slash pod katz thirteen right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need