EYL #84 American Hustle feat. Jamila Davis

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All right, guys, welcome back, Earn your Lisia. This is This is a different episode for us, but we tell stories. The thing we're unleashes that we do a lot of different stuff. Sometimes we do like blueprints on businesses. Sometimes we highlight a person's journey. Sometimes we tell stories. Shout out to Kenny Burns legendary. Yeah, that's another one. That's the fact. So this story is it's a financial story,

It might be the word. I'm being honest, and I told you this beforehand, but I didn't tell you our guest, uh, my parents, you know, they in their sixties, late sixties, early seventies, and they just figured out how to use YouTube. And once they got on, this young lady that we're gonna talk to in a second was on their YouTube channel and they watched your story and we're blown away. Like they were like, Troy, come downstairs right now, you gotta watch this. And we sat down and watched your

Yeah, for sure. So Jamiller T. Davis. You might have seen her on Love and Hip Hop. You might have seen I think then if you're referring to as a breakfast club interview. She's a published author, she's an entrepreneur. She has a program in school, who was just talking about now where she's going into school teaching financial literacy along with a bunch of other programs. But before that,

Thank you so much.

For having no no problem, no problem. So so yes, let's let's get into it. So people that might not be familiar with your story, they like they said, they might have seen you on TV, or they might not have. You know, I learned about your story recently and I was really intrigued by it. So it's a financial story. Can you start us off at the beginning of where it starts?

Okay, the beginning of where it started for me was really getting dumped at the age of fourteen, right by a sixteen year old drug dealer. So I was like a good girl kind of that went bad. My mom was a school teacher, my father was a transit supervisor, and.

I wanted a boyfriend and I got one right.

So, my first week of going to high school performing artson Manhattan, I met this drug dealer boyfriend who now I grew up late eighties, early nineties, so you already know that was like the beginning of.

The crack cocaine epidemic. Money was hitting.

My dude was making like ten thousand dollars a week at sixteen, so I was living this life and you know, thinking I was a cool kid, and he ended up dumping me for the girl that was sixteen years old who made her own money, and he said that he was choosing her over me because she was an independent

Him what he messed up on.

So it created this drive in me that was like nobody's business. Literally, in high school, I had went to school full time and had a full time job at Hagendos right, And it went from that to following my boyfriend's lifestyle getting into hustling, and then it went from hustling into getting into the credit business, and then I made millions of dollars.

So by the time I turned twenty.

Five years old, I was a real estate investor, making all kinds of boohoos of money and again chasing that thing that was missing aside that never got healed.

As a fourteen year old.

So when you talk about the credit business, what were we doing credit repair?

Yes, and so I'm an early burden it. So like when I say people now, I laugh.

Ninety nine two thousand, I was taking people from four hundred fighter score to eight hundred overnight. But the thing about now is we have information. Then there wasn't really information.

It was the hookup.

So I had someone in the credit bureaus that could actually you know, we paid them.

A couple of dollars and they made it happen.

And that's how I caught my first federal case because you know, we got jammed up by putting people through the credit system that we created.

So how did you get turned onto this? Because it's like all right, like you said, growing up in the late eighties early nineties, the obvious thing to do if you want to, you know, at illegal activities, sell drugs, robbery, stuff like that. At that time, especially white collar crimes for people from the neighborhood of young people like who, like, how did you get like what made you say, like, yeah, the.

Story is gonna make you laugh. First of all, I wanted a Lexis GS three hundred, and there was this lot on Boulevard, like if you had a couple of pay stubbs, and I had a good little bank job. Ironically, I used to work at the bank, so I had a good little bank job at my pay stubs.

I went to the Russians, gave them my pay stubs, and they got me my Lexus GS three.

Hundred, good car car.

Tom, you know only IRV, Gotti and JYZ had j pushing through and the GS three hundred. Everybody like, yo, that's your dual car. Like, nah, this is my car. So it went from that and people was like, well, how did you get it? I want to get one too. So I started helping people get cars, and I learned that I could make more money doing that than working

So you're introducing people to the credit, I'm assuming the derogatories and late payments. We're wiping these out.

Listen, we wipe out.

The system is not even you know, people would die for the system today because it's not like you writing a letter.

It's not like you wishing or praying or waiting.

It's like, hey, yo, take that off, all right, we got that when that one next day you wipe clean. And then what we did as well, we added trade lines on. So like, trade lines is not new, this is all old stuff. So back in ninety nine two thousand, we was adding trade lines onto people's credit. So we would take people with blank credit and then make them have an eight hundred score overnight because we understood the system.

So all right, so at what point do you get into real estate?

So ironically, like I grew up in real estate because my parents, who migrated from North Carolina, they used real estate as a way to overcome party. So my father had several multi family buildings in Brooklyn, and I.

Watched him have his tenants pay off his mortgage.

So seeing that as a young girl, I was always intrigued by it, and I knew that it was the answer. So I went to school. I actually got my real estate broker's license back in nineteen ninety eight, and I started selling houses in.

My neighborhood in Queens, Yes, so all right, so you're selling houses and queens. Is this during the time that you you got the credit thing going, Yes.

So I'm hustling multiple streams of income. Then understand that at the time, but yeah, I was doing that.

Hey, yeah, So the person comes in, they're looking for the home. The credit is bad, Like, yo, don't worry, I can take care of that. We're gonna get you this home tome, that's right.

And I really had a lot of like rappers and stuff that were my clients. I grew up around the corner from DJ Clue, Me and joh Rul went to school together. So it's like I got and then E money bags peace, Yes, my big homie. So like he put me on the Oconelly Oconnelly put me on the jay Z and Dame and then the story just went on from there. So all of these people have fresh new.

Money, right, so they had cash, but they didn't.

Have credit, so they couldn't really obtain the things that they wanted. So I became to go to with a plug like, Okay, you want to get in this apartment complex.

Okay, we're gonna get approved, no problem. Let me get that bread I got you. You feel me. Then it went from getting.

Them into apartments to like, listen, let's go by these mansions. And I actually got introduced to Alpine, New Jersey. Like and if anybody knows anything about Alpine and south of the river, these are like the states, right, So these are our houses that are mansions.

On two, three, four or five acres.

Of land with swimming pools and tennis courts and all that kind of thing.

Actually, bigs jay z partner introduced me to Alpine.

And when I seen the castles out there, I was like, oh my god, how do I get into this game?

I want to get.

Into these kind of houses. And I figured it out and it was on and popping from there. So I started bringing like way before did he move there? Way before Mary moved there? You know, we was in Ourpine and we started bringing in different celebrities to live in these areas.

Oh, don't do that to the we gave the neighborhood, you know what I mean.

Yeah, I'm just yeah out the bigs man we've we met on a few time. Were gonna get him on any leigure soon enough.

Yeah, So Alpine, New Jersey, all right, So you start to buy houses in Alpine New Jersey. Are you buying it for yourself? Are you helping other people? Like you're like a real estate agent at this point.

Well, I'm still a broker, but I've also investor, so I was kind.

Of like a business manager.

So actually, one of my clients, Akonelli, came to me and he wanted to purchase a property in Creskill, which is the town outside of Alpine. And the house that he wanted to buy, he was able to secure it for one point one million dollars, but when I sent my appraisals out, I realized that it came in for two point two So I'm like, yo, this property got like a million dollars worth of equity.

Right.

What happens is rich people don't want to fix up property. So if something had repairs that need to be done, they don't want that house. They want to move in, everything done, everything the way that they wanted to be.

So I noticed that there.

Was a lot of houses on the market that we could actually obtain that would appraise Because if you know anything about appraisals, it's about really square footage, right, So if you have a house that's the same square footage as a house across the street. You might take two three hundred thousand off the value if you know it has elabrary repairs, but they would be worth the same amount when you're do an appraisal.

So when I noticed that, I'm like, whoa, you know, the bell started going on.

If I get a couple of these, I could flip them to my celebrity clients and make a bunch of money.

And that's how I kind of got in the game.

My partner, he was actually in East Orange and Newark flipping houses back then, killing the game back then, and we kind of joined forces together and I'm like, can we take the same formula that you're doing in the hood and let's bring that over to the rich people's area and we could bang And we did that, and the rich people were like a maze because we was coming in renovating houses that they would have knocked down, and we was able to increase the equity pretty quickly.

By doing it.

So you were buying distressed properties in rich neighborhoods and fixing them up. Same concept that you know, shout out to Caesar and Lord of the slums and envying all of them. That's what things in Patterson, New Jersey. It's very popular, like you said, in poorer neighborhoods on middle class neighborhoods, but you took that same strategy and applied it to wealthy neighborhoods because it always there's always one bad house in a good neighborhood.

You could the thing about real.

Estate, and my father taught me that it just continues to keep going and going and going.

It's just about when people are enlightened. Right.

So for instance, I bought my father helped me purchase my first property in Brooklyn, and I got it for two hundred thousand dollars on Coprad Street in Bushwick, right. And I saw that property maybe two years later for like four hundred and I thought I did something like, yes, you know, I got a home run. Guess what that property is worth today, like one point seven one point eight million if I would have held.

Onto it, right.

So real estate is always evolving. It's just about when you get in the game. And when you get in early, you know, you make out better because it continues to go up.

So it's about when you get in.

So really the market is kind of similar, you know now to what it was back then. In regards to opportunities.

So at the time, right, you're buying the distressed properties in these affluent neighborhoods. How many properties did you accumulate? Like, what's the portfolio looking like?

I had nine multimillion dollar houses that totaled about thirty million dollars.

Big ms.

So all right, because you said that you have.

A strategy, So now look at what my strategy is. And one of I know, Big Business was on here too. He kind of uses the same strategy.

Right.

The strategy is, if you want to increase the value of a neighborhood, you buy everything up in that neighborhood in that price range, so you control the market. Right, So my game plan was going buy everything in that's that's low, so there's nothing low available, so if people want to come into this neighborhood.

They gotta buy hot. Right.

So my plan was working into the Feds knocking on my door because basically we would have controlled the market and you couldn't get in because we own everything that was in that particular balloy.

How many homes did did you have? And no, that was not nine nine you had nine homes in that area.

We brought up all the properties that were in like the two million.

Well, that's what big that's what another thing Big Business said shot out to him when he was on the podcast. He said that, and on his thing is that it only takes one home to set the comp and so but when you buy.

Up the market like you, you're guaranteeing that you did, there is no it's gonna be no other comps that's coming in for lower.

You are the comps, I said, you are the comps.

Yes, you are the comps, because if you only have one comp then a bank could kind of diffuted because you know that they go based on three appraisals. They don't go based on one cop. They do the average of three appraisals, right, like the average of three houses.

Right, so you want to make sure that ain't no three houses.

They're gonna be able to find that that that that's lower.

So all right, So what was the illegal part of this situation?

How I acquired the houses? So I took a shortcut.

I found a mortgage broker, which now people are realizing that's the best way to purchase because when you get a mortgage broker, they're gonna know about all the banks and all the programs that you qualify for, so you won't just be applying a miss right. So I had a seasoned mortgage broker who had contacts inside a Lehman Brothers bank, right, So they were getting things pushed through. So at the time Lehman didn't care. Leman just wanted

Your paper on the market.

So before you close a deal, they already sold and got you know, ten times whatever the number.

Is, by more more mortgage mortgage backed securities, mortgage backed securities.

Yeah, right, So they pushed through everything and they would tell us what the fix, Oh, you messed up on this W two, this should be this number. You messed up on these bank statements. So we was giving them inflated paperwork.

So that was my crime.

My crime was I have real people, real credit scores, but I was giving them inflated papers.

Stated stated like stated, but stated income was was was was legal stated, but you was just kind of fudging the numbers a little bit more to.

Stated income program.

So I purchased these properties in two thousand and two, two thousand and three.

Stated wasn't that popular?

Stated became popular around two thousand and three and two thousand and four.

So there, Yeah, you're creating the numbers, but they're coaching you along the way, like, yo, listen, this is what you should have right right, coaching me.

Like we got red flags all over the place, phone numbers not working. They like, yo, change the phone number, fix this, do that.

That is why I had a.

Problem just sitting back taking it because I'm like, yo, y'all was down with everything that, you know. The whole point was saying, like, Yo, you gotta pay your mortgage payment. Store, nobody wants to collect the foreclosure. They like, look, as long as you pay the mortgage payments and do what you gotta do, we good.

And that was pretty much the agreement.

So so you get you get Joe Schmoe rapper who has money to pay the mortgage but doesn't have good credit, might not report a lot of income, so can't really qualify for this two million dollar home. You fudge the paperwork to make it look official. You get them in. That's what you did, right pretty much, It's not that bad.

I mean I seen a lot worse. I mean, shout out to our boy. He called it the wild wild West. So a lot of things were happening like that. I'm and and he says, I mean the stories he's told. A lot worse things have happened. I'm trying to figure out why.

The bottom line, I'm y'all say this right, because it took me a long time to be able to accept the fact that I got a twelve and a half year sentence, right because we ain't talk about that right for a bank fraud, and the white male mortgage broker who I just told you about and the lawyer who used their licenses to push all the fraud through. Both of those two individuals got two year sentences each. So I got six and a half greater time sentence than they got.

So it was hard to swallow.

Like y'all, I ain't really do much and nothing and look at what they got. But then I had to realize I took a short cut.

I cheated, right. So because I cheated and I built this.

Great, big, beautiful castle full of sand, right when the storm came, it was able to ruin my castle, right, So it had to make me change my mindset to realize shortcuts.

Really most of the time of the long wrong route.

So today like I operate differently. I'm not willing because I know if we you jammed up, I'll jam up as black and brown folks is completely different than they jam up. So it really makes sense to take your time and build your house on part.

Let me ask you this. Let's get back to this Lehman Brothers situation, because this is something that's very interesting to me people that's not familiar. Lehman Brothers was one of the largest investment banks on Wall Street, was around four hundred years billion dollar bank, and it went belly up during a financial crisis. They made movies about this. It was a real big thing. Lemon Brothers was a real,

It was my mortgage broker.

So again you know your mortgage broker is gonna be connected. My guy was in the game for over fifteen years, right, so you know they go from one company to another company, they know all the executives.

Right.

So my connect, the connect I had, was very high up, and he was dealing with high up executives.

So for instance, it was easier for me to close.

On three and four million dollar loans then it was for me to get a Honda accord.

Okay, when I was in the car.

Game, it was literally we produced the paperwork and two three days later we closing off four or five million dollar houses like this, no questions asked, Right, So people think it's like really difficult to get more.

I feel like it's easier to get more than less.

So the mortgage broker was the connect to Lean.

He was the connect. This was his peoples.

It's interesting, so at what point does this start to go back? I sew another interview when you said, like you had a lot of like exotic cars and like was that a red flag? Like when when they see rappers moving in the neighborhood and everybody else that lives in the neighborhood is a doctor or you know, a CEO of a company and they you know, at what point did that become like, Okay, what's going on here? I need to call one hundred crime stoppers.

Like the neighbors.

Actually were kind of infatuated by us, like we were cool, you know, So to think about me is I already been ritching my mom. I just needed a couple of dollars to go with my mind set. You feel me, need a bag?

I was taking it straight to the top. So we had the match in Bentley's.

You know, we had like my partner had all burgundy cars. I had all white cars. At the time, this free well spinning Rims was out. We had s free Wells on everything. You know, I had the shades on. I was going through the neighborhood. Just couldn't tell me nothing.

You just for me. I made it you feel me, And that was like.

I guess, the ghetto fabulous way of showing people you arrived. But I did it for a couple of reasons. Now I'm also a business woman.

Right.

So at the end of the day, I know our people are attracted to flashy things. Right, So if I pull up and I'm talking that big talking, I'm trying to get a big sell.

But my you know what I'm saying, my costume and I'm gonna call it the costume. Right. Yeah, if to pull up costume meaning to.

Watch you, you got on you know what I mean, the car you riding in and you're getting tight, they're not trying.

To talk to you.

So I have was flashy purposely because that flash attracted the ball players, it attracted the rapters, it attracted the celebrities, and people wanted to know who I was and they wanted to talk to me. And by me having those conversations, once I got through the door, I would pull them all in.

And that was all she did.

At what point did you start to feel the walls closed in or did it happen like all of a sudden it was like, damn, you got this. It was like they just knocked at your door and it's like, oh shit, this is over.

There were no warnings, right, Nobody told me, like, nobody prepared me for this part of the game.

Right, because in my head. I finally arrived.

So now I'm associating with the ball players and their wives. I became a little bit boogie.

I changed, you know, my little tone, you know, moving a long life. My kids are enrolled and all the schools. I'm not thinking that the f boys is coming to the door.

You feel me, So one day they and I'll never forget it. It was April the third, two thousand and three. There was a fraud alert issue. So this FBI agent had a fraud alert issue throughout the financial service industry that blasted out that the following people are underneath federal investigation. If you get any loans from these people, you see them, do any business, contact my office immediately.

That was the end of my whole life as I knew it.

In real estate, and you were on the list. You were on that list. You were on that list.

Somebody So wait, somebody called in.

No, the FBI, So they was kid, They were just on. They were just on to you the whole time.

No, they really.

Wasn't on to us. The mortgage broker and this is the stuff that really makes me sick. So the mortgage broker that got the two years he was doing all kinds of frivolous stuff that I didn't know about.

Right, So he was being.

Investigated for some other frauds that he was doing. So when they stumbled upon him, right and I guess they caught us on the wyat taps and started seeing a lifestyle, it attracted. It kind of merged our worlds don't want to investigate us, but here goes to deal.

When we first got.

Under investigation, they thought I was a drug dealer.

They didn't know what I was doing.

They just seen the cars all the crazy and they felt like it was something wrong.

So they was fishing at first.

The investigation started with them just trying to see exactly what I was into, who I was dealing with, Because now remind you, I went from the street hustlers, So I started with helping street hustlers get cars. So all of the names that ring bells in the street, I was the person that they went to to get their cars. I went from street hustlers to celebrities to ballplayers, so I had those realm of people around me at any given time.

So when they seeing me, they like, is she a drug dealer? Is she you know? Is she really with a ball? Like who is she. So I think that they saw me, they saw my lifestyle.

I had maybox, I had drivers, I had houses on the hill, and I was.

Mind you, twenty five years old.

So they looking at me and they know it's something that is not right, but they didn't know exactly what was going on.

And as they did their investigation.

And let me be caring, guys, anytime you're under federal investigation, I don't really care if you're not doing anything wrong, they're gonna find something.

Whether it be one wrong check on the tax box.

Like when they look and they keep digging and digging and fishing, if there's anything wrong, they're gonna find.

Yeah.

So like they freezing the accounts everything, what's happening during that time?

So at that was first and then I woke up maybe two weeks later and all my money was frozen. So it was just, you know, I thought I would be able to get past this, even with the FBI fraud alert. I hired an attorney, gave him one hundred thousand dollars retainer. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna put my bread on you and you're gonna leave me alone. But that's not the case. Like once you get these f boys. It's not like the state, Like these dudes come with an insatiable appetite.

You feel me so like.

Despite the money that I threw after kind of like trying to get it all fixed, and despite the fact. Now let's talk about the fact I had twenty eight million dollars worth of loans that needed to be fixed, right like, meaning that had to be paid off. I got the money to the US Attorney's office twice, and the FED shut it down because what happens in the FEDS is if there's no loss, there's no time, right So you can only do time when it comes to

So you said that you got the money to them twice, What does that mean?

That means I had other investors, So let's talk about it. I purchased these properties in two thousand and two, before the biggest real estate booster in recent history or boom in recent history, for seventeen million. I put another three million dollars in the properties to renovate them, so I was in them for twenty million. Now mind you, I got you know, short sales. I got people that were divorced off fire sale homes, right, so really negotiated them right.

A couple of years.

Right, So I had investors, right because my investigation didn't start happening in two two thousand and three. So I had investors at that time who were willing to purchase the properties from me and still make a profit, right, And that would have cleared the debt. And guess what I would have been scott free. I would have never did a day in prison because no laws, no lass.

Who like investors like in the music business, investors.

Like I got savvy in real estate, right, so you know, I started finding hard money lenders.

People who were you know, real investors.

So like when you start moving in them realms and you start having access to those type of properties and things, you start meeting a different kind of people. So I started meeting investment bankers with private investment groups I brought in.

I had hard money lenders.

I had all kinds of folks who were willing to, you know, basically bail me out.

And crazy wouldn't let it happen.

The craziest part about the story, this is like a legendary story, is like I didn't know what a hard money lend it was till last year. And you've been doing this for fifteen twenty years already. That's crazy.

So s all right. So you have these properties you brought for seventeen million, put three twenty, but then it just sticky rockets because the real estate market goes crazy. Then the twenty million dollars the properties turns like thirty eight million in property value. So the investors was gonna come with twenty something million to pay off the loans that you have outstanding on the properties. But they're gonna pay twenty five million, let's say, for almost forty million

Let me tell you what. Let's talk about it, talk about it.

Let's talk about Chris Christie. So let's before you even say that. So Chris Christy, for people that might not know who he is, Chris Christie was the former governor of New Jersey. He also ran for president and he was also thought he was going to be the vice president. I think he thought he was going to be Donald Trump's vice president. No, no, no, district.

Yeah, first secretary of state or something.

What's what's the top lawyer in the country call the defense attorney. No, it's the top it's the top lawyer. Anyway, he thought he was going to get that position. But Chris Christie, he's the very high ranking Republican for a long period of time. But before all of that, he was a prosecutor in the state of New Jersey. So all right, so talk about all right.

Day when I got the twelve and a half years and they got the two, he said justice has been served in America. That Chris Christie.

Yeah, so all right, So Chris Christie, so how does he come into play in this whole saga?

So he's my us attorney.

And what I didn't know, Man, I got caught in the the.

Good Boy's Club battle.

So the attorney that I'm giving one hundred thousand dollars too, Right, nobody's explaining to me, like all of these people as friends, right, So these are they in the good Boy's Club?

Your lawyer and the district lawyer, My lawyer.

The people I'm hiring to defend me, they down with the mix. Usually it's supposed to work out for you because they can negotiate.

A good deal.

But in my instance, when they saw the equity and the properties, they.

Turned against me. So now watched it. I told you what the properties will work.

I told you I paid seventeen put in three, so I was in them for twenty right. And I told you because of the rise they were worth at least thirty five, could have been tipping more right, could have been closer to the forty end. Guess what they allowed The US Attorney's Office allowed Lehman Brothers attorneys to do to sell the properties to a subsidiary of themselves to take them back forcibly so they're not in foreclosure.

The properties never went through foreclosure.

Right the help of the US Attorney, they got the properties back, sold the properties to a subsidiary of themselves for one dollar right, and then offered them for a twelve million dollar discount.

Right, So basically all nine properties for a dollar.

Yep.

They ended up getting the properties for like thirteen million dollars or something like that.

Wow, And then within day they sold.

Them to all their friends and made millions of dollars. Why didn't jail time for the difference?

So, because I was going to ask you about refying if you could rEFInd So what happens? All right? So if you have a property, you own the house, and they say that you got it illegally, Like, how does that work? They could just take it away it just take it.

Well.

Now, one of the twists to this that I definitely need to say that I did that was illegal was we had what you call ernerds.

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Right, So, a straw.

Buyer is a person who's not really going to be have a vested interest in the property, but you paid them for their credit and you paid them for the credentials to get the property. Right, So the FED is put the pressure on those individuals right to sign the property back over to the bank that's how they got it done without a foreclosure.

Oh so to they say, you throw some money to the straw buyers and like, listen, we're gonna take this wen they're gonna wresh you or like you're on the jail if okay, okay, pressure, Like listen, you.

Know you're gonna go to jail for a very long time. And if you don't sign this paper, Oh where do I sign? Take it? I justo please. It was one of those kind of things.

So they got the properties back that way, and then they wouldn't allow us to bring our investors in, they wouldn't allow themselves to be whole. They sold them to their friends and within days. So it's a crime within the crime. So this is a lot of times people don't see this. It's even when they sees money and things from drug dealers before it ever gets to an auction block that the general people are ever going to see.

And that's what happened to me. I was their porn.

That's like the I read the book, and I saw the movie about Rick Ross Free Freeway, Ricky Ross, what's the name of the movie. I can't forget. I can forget everything right now. But it was this guy that he was a whistleblower. He was the original whistleblower on the whole situation. And he's told about the government and the contrast in Nicaragua and how they was funding the

And that's why they had to bury me, right because I was too outspoken. Had I just let them take it and make their money. I really feel like I probably would have been good. It would have been like, listen, you know, I was the person that was adamant about paying it back, adamant about getting the deal closed, because I realized what kind of time exposure I had.

Right So, because they seen me.

So active, they like, yo, we got to sit her down and shut her up because she's going to be a pop. So the whole point was, let's make sure she gets this twelve and a half year sentus. And I feel like my judge was also involved in some of that because they all the godson.

Of the godfathers, like.

Everybody's connected in this multiple family that I didn't know. And I didn't discover that until I went to prison and started actually doing.

Backfinding, and I'm like, y'all, this is scary.

That's just like y'all y'all homies, and I don't really know y'all homies. But then I'm trying to fight against y'all y'all really in the back room, gonna be like, listen, this.

Is what we're gonna do.

It's usually a made up mind before you even stepped in the courtroom. Because deals happened on the golf course or at you know, at the baby's birthday party.

That's a fact.

Attorney general, that's the name. That's what I was thinking about. That that's the highest you said that, that's the highest lawyer in the country. That's what Chris Christy was trying to become the attorney general.

So he got caught up in the scandal. He was going to be vice president and they had the Bridgegate scandal, and so he's like, yeah, we gotta put you to the side a little bit, and they were trying to give him that job.

Yeah, so you said, the judge told you, why didn't you stick to Newark or East Orange somebody that?

Yeah, he said, why did you know? He congratulated me, told me how smart I was and wonderful. So I'm thinking he about to like give me a nice light sentence to let me go. He said, however, why didn't you stick to buying properties in East Orange and Newark?

In areas where basically where you belong? You know, so made it clear that I didn't belong.

You know, in the good white boys club, like you entered into a society that you didn't belong. So, unfortunately, you're gonna have to pay the price, and the price was a twelve and a.

Half year sentence.

Yeah, that's amazing now he said that, I mean not amazing.

He was thinking, that's what I'm saying. It's all documented.

It's like, what does that have to do with anything? Like does it make it better if you would have done it in East Orange or Newark as opposed to where you did it at Like it's still it would be a crime no matter way you do it. So I don't understand, like the logic behind you should have done it in those neighborhoods. So you get twelve twelve years in jail, Well, twelve years sentence, nine years in jail, you said you that was like more time than anybody

The article about me, because they're like, yo, how did you get Like nobody understood it just didn't.

Make any sense.

But now let's talk about the part of what does make sense. Right, So it wasn't about what they was trying to do to me. It was really about what God was trying to do to me. Right, So for me, I told you I was that fourteen year little old girl who gave her soul to this boy never healed.

Was using all these material things.

To hide my insecurities, my self esteem issues, and really just was phased with things that don't really count.

So it wasn't until the judge bang.

The gavit that I realized if it was my very last day on this earth, my maker wouldn't say job well done.

I was helping all kinds of people, but not really doing the work that I was creating to do.

So I really feel like prison for me was the place that transformed me. It changed my mindset, and it got my mental right. It helped me to see what's worth it and what's not a lot of people will work all they life to get all these things and to do all this stuff to die the next day.

That's not worth it.

You know, if you're gonna die, you want to have memories, you want to have family support, you want to be around loved ones. And truthfully, all those people who I thought loved me and who I would have gave my life for left me behind. And when I saw that, I'm like, Yo, this is not what I want to do. I need to make a shift and I need to live life on purpose. What's the thing that I do effortlessly that God created me to do. What's that thing

My children and my children's children. And I started tapping into that mindset which ultimately changed my life and shifted me for what I'm living in now.

So you learn a life that you could write a book on. You started off literally with the street hostlers, e money bags and the likes you. Then you was rappers. Then he was in Jersey with Bentley's and Mansion as a bad boy video kid Lehman brother and he was part of the whole lemon of this situation. Then Chris Christie,

This is a movie, like how my life.

Is set up? Like you can't make it up. But Lauren was sentenced to ninety days for tax evasion and when she came in, I was like high up in the jail.

I was the prison clerk, So I had the kind of like the highest position you could have as an emmy, you know, in regards to movement, because for me, it was about power. How am I gonna live good? To live good, you're gonna have.

To have power. So let me get this power real good quick so I could live good.

So the lady that ran the prison at the time, she did the intake of Lauren, and she put Lauren with me. So Lauren came to me like recommended by how like yo mother got you, she gonna take care of you.

And that's what I did.

So I made sure she was good, and we just developed this really tight bond and you know, till this day, you know, that's still my girl.

So that's one of my favorite artists of all time. But you also, you know, you and increase your entrepreneurs spirit inside of prison, right. So a lot of people when they go there, they say that they got to get their mindset right and get their mindset and a lot of them do. But you took the time to start writing. Did you have an aspiration to write before then?

Or I didn't even know I could write?

So it was like in that place, I started writing and my mother hired me an editor and then I started publishing books from behind bars. So I created the Voices of Consequences and Enrichment series for incarcerated women, and that's a self help series to help incarcerated women heal, recognize their potential, and recapture their dreams. So I did that as a prisoner, and literally my books was in prisons across the world.

While you're in prison, I said, So I would get fan mail from other prisoners like, yo, your book changed my life, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

And that gave me hope. That's one of the greatest gifts my mother could have gave me, because I realized, you know what, if I can have that kind of impact inside of prison, baby, when I get out, let me tell you what I'm gonna do.

So that was my mindset.

So that kind of you know, boosted my confidence, and I started writing. I started a nonprofit organization from bahind bars. I got several degrees, I got my associates, my bachelor's, my masters, and I started working on my PhD.

From behind bars, and I started empowering other women. So I created a movement.

You know, that's a I mean, we got people right Now that's to figure out how to publish a book. How did you manage to do that in prison?

Reading? Right?

So Damnpointer that that's a if you're looking at self published, that's the best guy.

I got the damn Pointers a guide to self publishing. I read it from front cover to back cover, took out.

My highlight, I highlighted all the parts, and then I kind of instructed my mother on what to do. I'm like, all right, Mom, this.

Is what we gotta do.

We gotta get an ISBN number, now, we gotta get the copy right Like, I followed the book.

From step by step and I end up publishing my first book like that.

Yeah, shout out to ask Cash. I don't know if you ever heard of him, but he's dope too. He came on our podcast and he got a really dope course to teach people how to publish as well. So one thing about the criminal justice system, because we've had a lot of people on our podcasts that have been incarcerated. Wall Street Trapper, he's a real big guy on stock market. He's huge on the internet right now. Caesar, which is dj mv's partner, my son, thanks for facilitating that for us.

To say this right because now it's a difference the Feds back in the days, like in the seventies and eighties, you know, Davids tenants, since that shit does not exist.

So I just want to be clear that you know you got the camp.

Now, when I first got locked up, I wasn't eligible to go to the camp, and that was because of the money amount in my case, my restitution and because of the.

Length of the sentence I had.

Right So generally when you got like five years or less, they'll let you go to a camp. So I was in the sci with killers right when I first got to prison, and I had to work my way down. There's a point system that you could work your way down to a camp.

Now, a camp is.

A better situation because it's more freedom, but you still are a woman being incarcerated.

We don't got tennants.

We gotta eat what they give us, you know, unless you got the hook up and you gotta figure.

Like it's a whole another you know.

So I just want to make sure because people think of Arange just the new black and camp. We have, you know, enjoyable moments and you know, I can tell you about some times I had and I had a good time.

But I want to be clear before somebody want to.

Do, oh yeah, no, don't, don't. It's not it's not it's it's not it's not a it's not a camp. But but but but because even Caesar, even Caesar, he said that's how he got turned onto real estate. He met a guy in jail who was a white collar criminal who was a huge. He was huge, and he was in there for a white collar crime. And long story short, he's taught him real estate in jail and

I met senators, state senators.

I was also locked up with Teresa Judyce from the Housewives of New Jersey. So any of how jail pitchures, you see, I'm in all of them because I helped her stage them. So like I mean me, you know, like you're gonna meet some incredible people. And I think what it did was it sharpened my networking skills. Right,

Many different backgrounds.

So living in close confinements with people from all kinds of different nationalities and creeds, you begin to not be so prejudiced or think that your mindset is right because now you engage with people who teach you because you were geting to love them. You might need not like them at first, but after you spent seven eight years I stayed in one prison, you like yo, they become your family, so you beulcome open minded to different things, which opens you up to new opportunities.

Seeah, speaking of family, right, and now that we just spoke about it, it's the first time I'm thinking of it. Right. You're the first woman that we have had on your mother as well, what was the impact on your family outside of jail and how instrumental were they and you getting through this process?

They were everything.

So, like, my kids were nine and eleven when I left, and I didn't return to my kids were eighteen and twenty one. I missed every graduation, every graduation, right, So I finally last year just.

Got to go to my son's college graduation.

I was the first graduation I got to go to as a mom, right because I missed all of those crucial years of my kid's life. So it just showed me, like I wanted to get this money to because my kids had minks and pry To shoes and Gucci this and all this, Like I'm thinking that these things is what the kids want, but really the kids just wanted me, right, So I hurt the hell out of them by being

So a lot of times when people come out of jail, if anybody's ever known anybody that's going to jail, especially for a long period of time, it's hard for them to readapt into the world. A lot of times they go back to jail, and even if they don't go back to jail, it's just like they they're never really the same person. They become intitutionalized, and it's hard for them. It's just a lot changes when you're in jail for

Absolutely?

So my conversations with Lauren Hill was key, like she changed my mindset. Like you know, when you meet somebody that you look up to or that you believe in and they tell you you got it, it really increases your faith to believe. And she suggested, she's like, listen, you around all these stories. Start taking some of these women's stories and do something with them. And when she told me that, I went ahead and I produced The

And then we started.

Staging prison pictures, right, so we would get our makeup done. I had done and our pictures went Bible. So I know you didn't seen some of our pictures because our pictures were Bible and we was on Baller Alert and the Shade Room and everybody like, yo, who these girls that looked so pretty in prison? And we did that purposely and strategically to show people that, you know, like what they think is in prison isn't really in prison.

So if I say I failed, then I failed. But if I say I succeed and look for the good in a bad situation, I can find it. And that's my mindset now and even during this pandemic.

I had to adapt back to that like finding the good in every situation, purposely looking forward and not stopping that search.

Until you find.

Yeah. One of the most admirable things I think what you're doing, and I applaud you for it, is going back and going into schools and telling your story and providing education to children. And I know you have a program you want you want to talk about what you've been doing in schools.

Yes, So basically, now I told you guys, I was like the prison clerk, right, So the recreation clerk was the person who developed curriculum to help keep women programming and out of trouble and just to have a good morale, like to keep the spirits up while incarcerated. Never did I dream in a million years that that skill set would prepare me to establish a multimillion dollar educational consulting firm.

And basically what I do now is I develop programs for schools, for cities, for communities, and I teach them ways through my curriculum how to engage high risk individuals or at risk individuals, and I show people what's possible. And what we do is pair them up with celebrities and other influences. So kind of like what Lauren did for me.

Right, I was in my situation and I didn't know I could, if I could come out or not.

She gave me hope. So I use people that other people.

Look up to to implement the curriculums that I create. And we, you know, we inspire so many people to push past their fears, push past their pain, and make it onto on time.

So let me ask you this as far as because obviously you have a brilliant mind, and you knew a lot about real estate. You had to know a lot about real estate, and I'm sure you learned a lot are you Are you still involved in real estate now? Are you able to be an investor? I don't think you can. They can stop you from being an investor. I'm pretty sure Caesar is an investor. Shot out to Season. I don't mean to keep I don't keep making I

He made it.

So that it that it's against it's a violation for me to operate in the realm of real estate. Right, So that was another purposeful band. So, by the way, I got a twelve and a half million, not a restitution, Right, I got a twelve and a half year sentence, a twelve and a half year restitution, and then I got a ban to be banned from real estate.

Right. I think that that was the thing, Like, Okay, if.

We take this away from her, she won't know how to generate that money again. But the thing about me is you put me wherever, and you showed me the system. I'm gonna figure it out. So I just was able to adapt to other things. So right now, currently, while I'm on federal probation they call it because we don't have parole in the federal system, I'm not able to operate in the practice of real estate. However, I know a lot about it, and one day I'll be able to operate in the realm.

Put me anyway on God's green earth from a triple my word.

So that the twelve million restitution, you have to pay twelve million dollars back? Yes, So how does that work?

It just it just has to work like so for me, Like I put not too much emphasis on it, because I got one hundred.

Million dollar plan five years a hundred million. I'm gonna figure it out.

Like to me, like, I can't let that barrier block me, because if you think about it, that was really.

A life sentence that you issue on somebody.

So not only do I gotta do the time I got this judgment, that's a federal judgment, lean over my hand right until I pay it all because it doesn't disappear. Bankruptcy doesn't take it away. Time doesn't take it away. So with that said, I had to position my mindset to take it away. Okay, twelve and a half that's life, that's that's short points. I'm gonna get to it, you know, And I gotta get back out here and do what

But if not, I guess I have to pay that.

The federal government just collects down with.

The monthly monthly day. I have a set order.

They take money from me, and according to my income, my earnable income wages, they are able to come in at any point and take whatever they can.

It's like child support kind of a portion of area.

Baby daddy to have or the federal government.

Yeah, that's that's an expensive change. So I mean that's how do you sold all right, as far as criminal justice reformed, right, because it's like we spoke with my saunt who did seven years, seven seven years for ten dollars. I think they he said that they didn't commit but even I mean even without not committing the crime, and think it was like robbing a cab driver of ten dollars. That's what he was accused though, robbing a cab drive of ten dollars. You, like I said, I mean, you know,

That So someone argue that you help people, right, I saw on one article they were calling you the black robberhood.

I mean I did help a lot of people. Truth is I've helped a lot of my people become homeowners. I educated them on credit, and to be honest with you, I'm gonna get back into that.

MG the mortgage guy, he and I did a live yeah recently, he actually empowered some students and I realized I have a gift to be able to help my people, and I got to figure out how to do that because it's necessary, you know.

So how do we fix this crime? Because that's another thing we didn't talk about as well. You're you're an app, you're and activists, So how do we fix this criminal justice system that's broken? It's a double standard, and obviously, like cases like yours, my son is obvious that it's not the same punishment for the same crime depending on people's skin color. So what's the what's what's what's some of the things we can do?

Media and people might laugh at that, like what do you mean? Like you just kind of look at the recent cases. Right when people start seeing outrageous stuff and we start making it go viral, people lift up their mouths and start speaking out.

And when you speak out, things happen.

And that's why I'm an activist today because I know that you gotta use your voice.

A closed mouth does not get fat.

I feel like the more people keep seeing the injustices, the more we're gonna fight, the more we're gonna demand that the laws, you know, be changed. And it won't happen tomorrow morning, but eventually, every day it gets better, it gets better. It gets better, it gets better. And when we join forces and we galvanize, then people get to know, don't play with us, because we can mess with people in different ways and it doesn't have to necessarily just be like people think, Oh, I gotta kill

Yeah, and I think you know. One of the takeaways that I get from your story and a bunch of other stories. Is like, you know, a lot of people, you know sometimes are our best talent is in jail because you know they might not have had the same opportunities resource somebody else might have, like you know, you know, maybe you know, and everything happens for a reason in life and you can never you know, blame anybody or anything.

Yeah, but the climbing up the stays gonna take a little bit longer. Yeah, it's worth it.

It's worth it in the longer you're gonna keep it.

So now, like I just came home, I just got a condo, right, but literally the condo I moved back in the community that I bought a condo in when I was twenty one. You know, I'm doubled at age now, right, so I'm starting.

Over whereas I could have did things the right way. It's just crazy, you know. So for some people, they look at me and they're like, oh my god, you're doing so well, and.

I'm looking at my stuff like, oh baby, bom, this is this is you know, I'm grateful, but yeah, this.

Is not new for me, you know.

But had I done things the right way, no one would have been able to take away what I worked for.

So that's important. That's why I tell people, take your time and get it right.

Now.

It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure. I'm glad we got a chance to have this conversation.

I'm gonna be excited about this one.

To anything that you want to make the public aware of, any initiatives any I know your book, your book.

Yeah, we got something dropping very shortly.

That's our book took Yeah, talk about that, let's do it.

I literally wrote this book about nine years ago when I was in federal prison trying to figure it out, when my mom was all messed up and I thought I was gonna die and I didn't know how I was avived a decade, you know, in federal prison, and this particular book was the road map that.

God literally literally gave me to change my mindset.

How could I take these disgusting limits that they gave me, you know, and turn them into sweet lemonade.

So I outline the points in my books.

It's the twelve points, the turning a setback into a major comeback. So you know, you gotta check it out. It's coming out on June thirteenth. I'm gonna have a big virtual book signing. You know, we gotta do everything virtual now. I'm gonna have incredible phenomenal speakers coming to talking and power people and it's just good fuel, good food for the salt, inspiration.

What your social media handles and are you coming back on love and hip hop? Is that gonna happen On, So yeah, it needs my partner.

So I get on Love and Hip Hop by Happenstance because they follow her real life and together we're in the schools, we're together on you know, doing activism. So I kind of get into that because I'm just there and it just is I'm a part of her storyline because I'm a part of her life. So yeah, that I'm most likely wherever she's at, you're gonna pretty much see me, you know. And then, like I said, there's a new show coming out on VH one and I'm gonna be featured on, so stay tuned.

I'm not privileged to, you know, release all the.

Details right now, but that's coming up, and it's just so much going on. But you know, even our activism, check that out. Forget the shows.

Yeah, you're join us on the front line. You know, we've been there.

We was there for MDC when they turned the lights and the heat on, we came. We rallied around the jail and guess what, we got the lights in the heat back on. So that's what we do. We moves and we shake its. We fight for our people because we love our people. Staying with us follow me. You can follow me on social media.

My Instagram and Twitter handle is at Jamilla T. Davis. That's JA M I l A. T.

Davis and I'm on I'm on Facebook at author Jamiller T.

Davis. You know, check me out and follow me, guys, and follow the movement and join it.

Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Troy housekeeping it one.

Shout out to everybody on patreon dot com. You know that as our proud to paid program. We have five different tiers. You get a lot of things with those tiars. You get ad free episodes, you get discounts to the merchant, you get access to eyl University Online Educational School, which is the number one business school in the world. We

Yeah, for sure, and don't forget to like subscribe. What do you listen on YouTube app whever? We appreciate you guys, Thank you for rocking with us. We'll see you next week.

Go get her book. Don't play around, don't play yourself, don't wait, don't hesitate, Go get it.

I see exact pace.

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