EYL #81 Prison, INC. feat. Mysonne

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All right, Gods, welcome back another episode. E y L Yeah virtually virtual edition. So today's a special episode because you know the good thing we're having a business podcast. It allows you to cover almost everything. Everything is a business level of money and finances. Like Wu Tang said,

It's it's a business, it's.

A billion dollars billion, and you know, we wanted to just make sure that, you know, we ate had enough information. And then we wanted to bring somebody on with a with a real life experience.

Author experience.

So it was like just perfect because not only does our guests have a real life experience, but he's on the front lines as far as being a social activist for years. And not only that, one of the best them sees ever ball football.

I mean I remember from the Violated days man, Yeah, I remember I had the post wall Man album.

Yeah, so if you're not familiar my song, my song is our guest today and yeah, my song is is dope from a musical standpoint, huge following on social media and on flex arguably one of the best flex freestyles ever.

I think you got like five of the top ten joints.

That's a fact. So so yeah, it's crazy. Wallow just posted it yesterday. Shout out to Wildstow brother. So yeah, one of the best flex funk flex freestyles ever, but bigger than that. Just like I said, social activists be on the front lines really doing this thing and making a difference in the community. So first and foremost, before we get started, thank you, thank you for joining us, appreciate.

It, thank you for having me. Thank you.

Yeah, I still remember the first line the first time I ever heard you my song Lefty, That's still one of the hardest intros to a rap song I've ever left rifle.

That was different. That was different. So yeah, So Mice, I want to tell people the backstoor they might not know. They might have just seen your freestyles, or they might have seen you, you know, doing the social activist thing, but they might not have known your story of you know, where you got to this point.

And for us, we grew up.

In the nineties, grew up in the early two thousands, and were huge fans of music. So when me and Troy, like when we first started ahead about your name, it was on the underground circuit and then that that Rough Riders Rough Fires was so hot. It's kind of hard for me to explain to people that's younger, like Rough Riders was it they had. It was bigger than music though, because they had the whole motorcycle movement and they had the merch, they had the T shirts and it was

Shut.

Yeah.

So so when they put out their compilation, you had that legendary verse and then your name was just buzzing all over and believe you signed with Violator. But then you know, you was incarcerated for seven years came out. So can you talk about that as far as your journey from being a musician to being incarcerated and then coming home.

And I'm not.

Sure if you if you first started your activism, uh when you first came home, or if it took a while for that or like was that actually started while you were incarcerated. And you know what's crazy funny story because I got like a photographic memory. I memorized everything. I don't even know if you remember this. I think like the first week you was home, because it was like a big thing when you came home too. And the first week you just came home. We saw at two Fish, one Fish.

Oh yeah, yeah.

It was out.

We was out, We was out with some of our friends and he was like, Yo, that's my song right there. Just came home, Like he literally just came home. That's crazy. I just remember that. So, yeah, can you talk about that as far as your journey from music to being incarcerated and then you know, doing what you're doing now.

Yeah, so it's gonna be a long story, So let's sit back for it.

We're ready, ready, But.

Yeah, yeah, I got signed. I mean, I started in the industry in about ninety eight. My then manager, Tone was he was he was He managed Mace and I had a group back in the days. We called ourselves to Cartel and it was three. It was three of us.

Bad Boy. We bought.

He brought us to his office and he was like, y'all sound a lot like the locks. Y'all need to try to try to look more like daylight soul.

Or something.

Two different spectrum, looking.

For more of you know whatever. Anyway, so then we met up with my manager. He had met them first in the barber shop in the Bronx and.

He was from.

Queen's and he happened to be there with one of his friends that owned the barber shop.

I heard my boy's rhyming.

And then he was interested in them because he was I guess he had just finished manager man. He was still doing some things in and out of the industry, but he had just he was managing made for a little while and was still looking, you know, to move around the industry. He had a lot of connections, so he wanted to meet with them and he's like yo, He's like yo you and they was like yo, if you think we doe, you got to hear our other part.

And by that time I had kind of got a little jaded with the industry. We had like three different and you know too.

A Marrow had told us to sound like daylight soul, and it was just like, man, I'm in the street.

I ain't even worried about that. So they like, you always going to meet with this dude.

I'm not doing that, you know what I'm saying for what, I'm tired to keep hearing the same old shit. So I let him talk me into a dude pulls up.

That's the ninety eight.

He pulls up in front of my building with a navigator, black, brand new navigator, so nobody ain't have no no navigating in ninety eight. He got me somebody, he know, he doing something. They posed in front of my building getting a car. He like, I'm just quiet because I'm always the one that never pays, you know, never believes nothing. I'm always skeptical with everybody. So I'm sitting in back. They talking to me quiet. He looking at me like,

You know, I'm just kid.

I'm eighteen years old.

And my man say, I feel all right, but I still just don't know. You don't know if there's some game you wasting our time whatever. So he throws on beats and they spit. So then he like, so do you Rhy'm like yeah, Ron, He's like, so what they I'm like because you know, I'm not in the more right now. So he laughs, he's laughing, like all right, I get it. So then he happens to play a beat that I fuck with, so I spit. So he just looked at me, so all right, and we drove. We drove straight to.

First person.

We drove to I think we drove. That's what free. If you're back in the industry, that's what I'm free. Leskin brother he had afro light Eus. He used to run Jermaine Duprieze organization. So he took me the Freeze office in the city. We went straight in the building, boom upstairs. We're sitting in there. So he's like, yo, Rob, so we spitting the nigga like yo, he dope. He takes me to that's what uptown. Baby came out and

So I mean there, but they're like, oh, let's take the fight.

So by the end of the day we had went to four different record latives. He just got us inside like and they was all like, nah, he's doing his dough, but we like him more, you know what I'm saying.

So he was that's what he's like. Yo.

We everybody listened, but most of the people liked you. So you know, that's when I started believing him. He ain't really just no dude, that's bullshit and that's coming, you know, trying to play no games.

And from there I had I went to we had. What happened was I had a big battle.

With Sean in front of Justice.

Justine heard about that.

That was that was like.

But prior to that, I had went to UN's office. Who was that's when entertainment you know Cam Cam, the cam there, Charlie Baltimore and who I think it was just Cam and Charlie. So I walked into under office and just start rhyming, almost we signing him, don't don't let nobody else him. I did a song that day in the studio. Digga, who is producing most of Cam tracks, was in the studio with me. We did this song that was so five that it was probably like it's

Sean is outside just Romen.

Randomly, randomly, they just to be on Tuesday nights with industry nights, so randomly you'll pull up the Justice and Niggas the South.

Side rom ninety eight. That that that was. That was the time. That was the NI album, That's what.

And I remember when he when he first.

Played super Dog super Dog No No.

Not super Dog the show we.

Had pun King TV TV.

He pulled up there and played that song and I was like, yo, let me just get on.

This please, Oh my gosh, this like.

How did this happen? Anyway? So we outside did they freestyling?

My lawyer at the time, Matt Middleton, was listening to the he listening to the Ryan's like, yo, he comes inside.

We inside justine eating he come like yo, the outside rhym and shining.

Numbers out there. And I know, Seana the dude, I just got the million dollar deal. You know, I got a hundred ROMs in the clip. I'm already mad. You know what I'm saying. I got a chip on my shoulder, like I'm dead than this nigga.

He's fake biggie.

You know.

That was the thing.

That was the thing at that time. I was like, how y'all gonna start to doing so like that.

Side the nigga whatever. So I'm alright, I go outside. So my man, my Man's.

Like ahead go ahead.

And then and then Norman was like, yo, you want to spit because Normany had never heard me. Rob to this time like he ain't never heard me. So I'm all right, I'll throw something in there. Ron Norman listened to me like, oh, this is fire the Sean Ron. He's okay, let.

Me get out of this. He backs up. I go again. Yeah, proud Clue is there. It's everybody's coming.

It's we got one of the biggest circles in the park, a lot of justice that probably ever happened.

So we going. It was to the point where I noo. It was like enough enough enough.

Man, you you got to slow down, killer, you're trying to kill this man.

So it went back.

It got back to puff that y'all he ate your artists, and yo, he killed Shine in front of the things. So I had this big bidding war. You know what I'm saying. We had a bidding war. Jamaine Dupre flew me up to his house. I sat down with pretty much every label from there. Chris Lighty was like, Yo, what we're gonna do. Chriss from the Pronx inst in peace.

Know what I'm saying. So it was it was it was an issue for me.

Mean, we and him almost had We almost got into a fight over we was in the hand things.

His man's was, man, it really was one of his man's. It wasn't him.

His man's Like, fuck that nigga, he showing you fake love. So we almost got into a big beef. The whole teams were all twenty D you know what, we just haven't have somebody in the middle. I think it was Wolf. Wolf pretty much squashed that. God bless it that he had us sit gate, had us do a sit down, and we became best friends after that. So I got signed. I signed with Chris Lady. I was originally going to sign the Rough Fighters, but I just I had an ego,

You know what I'm saying.

When they got he got the Rough Fighters, I want to have the problem Children because that was my organization and I was the problem child and I had like five of my dudes.

I called them a problem Georgia. So I'm like, we can have our own stuff.

I don't want to sign underneath, and they was like, nah, you can do this, but I'm like, nah, everybody already know that the Rough Riders. It's symbolic with DMX in the lots, like I don't care what you say.

DMX had already sold five million records.

Like there's no way that you come in there and you're gonna be the main priority of BAX. So you know, Chris was like, you're gonna be the priority over here. I'm telling you, we're gonna do this. You know, we got Foxy, but you're the only guy over here. So it's not no like no competition. And it was cor Mega, matthats Foxy and Cormega. He's like everybody like they got their own. Lady, you're gonna do your own thing. We're

I'm going back and forth with it. You know.

We went to trial and ended up blowing travel. You know, it was my first my first fella in or whatever. But I ended up getting sentenced to seven to fourteen years.

So you know now that that was crazy.

How how are you?

I was twenty years old, twenty.

Twenty years old, just about to just got this record deal, just about to do all.

Of this stuff, and I end up going trial for seven and fourteen. So I'm sitting there like this, this can't be true. I was just at the Super Bowl.

I was just in the Bahamas recording my album with Havoc and Prodigy, and you know when we in the studio I got I was supposed to be doing vibor things remixed the date after I got locked up. Like it was just the weirdest turn of events that I've probably ever seen in my life. So, you know, just doing my bid I just had to find some level of solace and understanding, Like, you know, I got to find a purpose in this, Like I can't sit here and let this destroy me, I can't. You know, I

And when I got picked out of a lot, that one guy picked me.

Up a street seeing I looked like somebody, And so that's that in itself was even worse. It was something that you.

Did, and you you have a sudden you did.

You like, this is what it comes with it when you sitting in jail losing a million dollar record deal and you sitting in prison for some shit you didn't do.

You know, it's a lot.

But you know, I just told myself every day that every data I don't learn something, I don't grow as a man, the system wins.

You know what I'm saying. I can't sit here and be down. I can't like I'm going home.

Eventually, I got at least seven years to do here, so I got to figure out what I'm gonna do. So I worked out, I read, I exercised, I wrote rhymes.

I had books and rhymes.

You know, I studied, you know, when I started realizing that the prison was a business, Like you said, it was an industrial system where we.

Were the product.

Blackrown might not already go in and out of prison, and they just keep bringing the same ones and then and they selling us the same fairy tales, you know, they making you believe that it's some type of badge of mindy to go to prison for our communities, and were going in and out, and the dudes is coming home telling.

Us how cool it is and how gangs today is because they was locked up and they was in the yard.

And sure they was coming to visit me, and all of this bullshit that you find out when you're in there. It's a bunch of dudes that just dying to get home. Some dudes you probably would never even talk to in the street. Now you surrounded by these dudes. So I realized that, and I'm like, yeah, we've been lied to for years, you know what, especially in our communities.

So when I came home, my mind frame was different.

I didn't immediately get into activism, but I was definitely way more conscious, you know what I'm saying. So my focus was different. My whole path was different. So when I did seven years later, when I did make my carole board and got out, you know, I still pursued my music, but you know it took time because you after seven years, you don't you out of touch, you don't know what's going on now, you know people you don't got you know, I'm trying.

To can you talk about that?

Like how because I don't think people the vast majority of the populace has never been to jail, right, so it's kind of hard for people to understand with somebody that, especially for a long period of time, like seven years. I remember, I think it was Mano and he was saying when he first came out of jail, he forgot how to cross the street. Like it's like you become institutionalizing. It's how hard is it to adapt back into society when you've been away for seven years?

It is very hard because there is different There's so many different transitions that you have to go through.

You have to go through your.

Own you have to you have to adapt back into society.

You have to get out of the society that you was in. You have to.

You have to evolve your thinking because you used to things being one way you know what I'm saying. You used to think first, You used to do things being away that they were in the street before you got back. Then you're used to the surroundings that you just left. So there's so many different elements that you have to unpack and unroll from. So first, you're quiet because when you're in prison you can't, you're not allowed. You're not

People like what man all right? Like everything good with them? I'm like, nah, I'm good, he good and good and they're like, yo, you are right.

I'm like, yeah, what what do you mean what I'm saying like you look like.

Like people are scared of talk.

I'm like ah, and I didn't understand what they were talking about. But I didn't make myself approachable because I was a lot more serious. And then, especially dealing in this industry, you know how faith this shit is. Everybody'll shake your hands and tell you they love you and they're gonna call you tomorrow, and that's not gonna happen. They're gonna do this with you and it's not gonna happen.

When you deal with men, it don't really go like that. So when you.

Start having those conversations and you seeing these industry dudes and they tell you how much they love you, Yo, we're gonna do this, and then they don't.

When you come in prison, it's like, yo, why you ain't do that.

Everybody is used to that outside. So when you approaching the dude left he said he's gonna do something. Don't get nervous now.

Now they're like, yo, we don't want to be around this dude. He bugged out, you know what I'm saying.

That's why when you look when men came home, he was doing a lot of stuff. It was a lot about because he wasn't used to being on that time. Will you play with me? You understand I'm saying, like you're gonna do.

Something to me. You can't say you're gonna do something for me and don't do it. You can't give me a hug and look me in my eyes say I got you.

And then I called you don't see your phone or you see me and we have the same conversation three times and nothing happened.

So that's a process.

So I was getting enemies from not playing because I'm taking you literally.

Like DJ like, yo, I love you, I'm gonna do this.

I play your record. I'm coming to the DJ. You giving the record. They playing it for two seconds, turning it off like you're like you doing like why he didn't play the song? He talking about you like Noah, you gotta do it now. But you're playing some song for some niggas that live down south. You never see it before in the New York club and you breaking the song.

You're playing it four or five times, but you're playing my.

Second for my record for three seconds. So I was having this is issues. I'm turning off niggas microphone tucking like you know what I'm saying. So this was a process for me. The acclamation, just realizing that you got to become and you got to do things different the way and you got to be a lot more diplomatic.

Your word is everything. So that's how I came home, and that's not how it is here. You know what I'm saying.

People will tell you anything, and if you do not adapt to that reality, then you will find yourself outside of the bubble.

So what you got to do is learn how to play the game.

You don't expect anything from and you realize happy you you doing what you gotta do, whatever they do is a plus. You don't expect anything from. So that that was a real process of adjustment for me.

Let's let's talk about mass incarcerations. So for people that are not familiar with some of the numbers we looked at. So there's there's private prisons. America I think is the only country that has private prisons. One out of five prisoners in America are in private at prisons. It's a two billion dollar industry. And the whole thing is really

It's oh, it's a whole system.

And they provide.

Free label.

Yeah, yeah, the free the freelan really quick. The free labor thing was especially and we'll get into the pandemic. But I work in the school and I'll never forget uh when it just started maybe like early March.

Uh, they brought the.

Hand sanitizers into our school and at the same time they brought it in. I remember sending shinty article like yo, they got the prisoners making the hand sanitizer.

I'm like, now, I can't use that.

This goes against everything I stand for, Like you could have actually employed people to make these things and gave them a job. But Rett, you're gonna let prisoners eight cents an hour.

And the thing about it is those same prisoners that make that inside the prison can't go home and work in a factory where they do that.

They won't even hire them, right, you can see what I'm saying.

So it's like they it's prisons in there doing working for the phone on AT and T. They answering eighteen T calls, but can't come home and work at AT and T.

They're doing construction and building. They on core craft.

It's the biggest thing inside the prison. They make all the clothing, all of the soap, all everything. But you can't come home and work if you for core craft. And you got to feeling it, so it doesn't like it's really it's really slavery.

And so from being inside, from like firsthand experience, because I think that they said the average prison across America gets paid like sixty eight cents an hour or something like that, or eighty six cents an hour. You don't have an option because I want to explain this for people, because, like I said, the vast majority of people have they've never been incarcerated. So I think it's because a lot of times people don't have compassion a last you know,

You have to work, right, right, you.

Have you have programs, So when your program comes, you have to choose vocationals.

What you have to like take some type of skill.

Then they probably have programs that's mandatory programs based on your crime. They have drug programs you have to go to, or violence programs or turn it into violence programs you have to go to. And then you have a regular job that you have to do. And and like he said, the average prisoner doesn't. I don't know about maybe maybe it went up to sixty cents hour, because I when I was there, the job was like seven and eight cents hour. At the end week, we make about fifty

The whole week, you know what I'm saying.

So, and that was working the regular seven hours seven eight hours a day's shift.

And you get about no more than three to four dollars a week. That was a conversary ship.

So you know, when you when you're in it, you don't have you like you said, you don't have a you don't have a choice over the world, and you can't even survive those That amount of money is not even enough to buy toilet trees. You know, if they don't supply you they supply you with soap, but they don't supply you with deodorant, you know, they don't supply you with certain with baby or you and things of that nature to lotion yourself. So that's not even enough

So it's it's it's definitely slave slave industry inside.

Of prison, and it's a big business.

I think the first time it probably was on Kanye's album, and maybe I was ignorant to it, but when he said the line the CCA teamed up with the DEA, I had to stop him, like yo, the CCA, and then actually doing some research the Correction Corporation of America. They're building these private prisons, and when you build a prison, you have to have prisoners, obviously, so they're making millions of the dollars building these prisons and then finding inmates.

But what they're doing at.

The same time is they have to incriminate people. Right, So it's like, Yo, the thing that used to not be legal, now it is. And that's happened over time. We've seen that happen with Mexicans in the eighteen hundreds and the Chinese and during the gold Rush, Like we're going to criminalize what they do and people are not aware of it. Right, So when you're talking about this generation, I'm just like, Yeah, they don't get it because they can't see the big picture.

America is built on capitalism. Capitalism only came to survive. If there's a lower class, there has to be a bottom. They don't really have to be a middle class, but the bottom has to be someone. So this is why, that's why why supremacy is such a big thing when we talk about it for black people and people don't understand it or you could do anything, No, it's not

They need crime like, so.

When after this pandemic, there's going to be a flood of flush in crime because you know why, because people are dealing with trauma, they're dealing with fear, people are gonna be dealing with financial issues. They cut all of the summer programs. The kids are not getting no summer youth.

There's nothing but crime.

You're trying to you're probably gonna rob somebody because now you can't even enjoy the sports. The kids don't even go get to go enjoy the sports. You frustrated, you didn't graduate, You missed your graduation. You was probably going to one of the top basketball players. You're supposed to go to D one school.

You didn't even get to.

Play your last year. You don't even know if you're going back to us. Like, there's so much things that's going to breed crime in our communities right now. You know, So this is this right here is a time like when you if you if you start studying stops. The prison industry is what they invested in right now, prison pharmaceuticals because they can try to force us into back.

Like, all of these things are things that's gonna happen. You know.

The stimulus product pack was to keep people silent because when the stimulus is over and then when you go back, they said, we got the highest this is the highest unemployment ever. They got over forty million people who've apply for unemployment who lost their jobs. So that's going to what that's going to look like in the next couple of months. When they start to reopen society and people are moving, it's gonna breed crime.

There's gonna be some people that.

Have nothing, some of them some of those jobs that they used to have won't be there right and a lot of people, a lot of people get confused. It's like, oh, that can't happen here. But I'm like, yo, somebody can't eat where they live, they come into your neighborhood.

That's a fact.

You know what I'm saying.

Poverty is crime. That's the bottom line. Anywhere that you look with people live in poverty, there's crime.

You know, it's not black people, it's not spending people it's the conditions that people. If you cannot change the conditions, you can't change the problems. When people say, yo, they shouldn't commit committed the crimes, well, the conditions were set there for them to commit the crime. If you you know that, some people have the ability to live with with mega, to live with nothing.

Some people okay with that.

When you look outside and you see other people having things as a young boy, and you're being teased for not having things, and you try to figure out how how to get it, and the only vision of success you ever seen was a drug dealer. The only people you ever seen have money with a drug dealer. And the stick of kids that pulled up, they had the girl you want. They had to call you want, they.

Had to respect you want.

It's not as easy as you just don't commit the crime. And you just keep going to school with barely enough lunch money and holds in your jeans, and you keep telling me, no, you can't buy the new video game I want. You can't know, we can't get these new shoes, and the cable keep getting.

Cut off, and some days to come in there's nothing refrigerator.

It's easy to say you should they shouldn't commit the crime when you don't understand those realities, you know what I'm saying, So you have to you have to change those realities for you to change the mind state of the individual. Nobody wants to commit crime. I never I never want. I did everything possible now to commit a crime. But it was a time where I felt like I was I was a man, and I was around people, and I don't even feel comfortable because I didn't have

And you're coming home and it's just you and your little sister in.

The house, and you got to figure out how to eat. That's a different conversation. So when people say you just don't commit the crime and don't understand the realities that come with that, it's an insult, you know, it's inso to somebody who has a good heart, who considers themselves a good person.

If you look at.

Most of our people, who look at jay Z, you look at fifty when they got the opportunities, they didn't have to commit crimes, you know, but they they got where they got because if it wasn't for those crimes they committed, you wouldn't even know them. They probably would have been in the streets someone You understand I'm saying. So it's a double assed ward and we want to do better. We got to understand the circumstances in our community.

Let me ask you this because just I'm interested to know this. You had mentioned the calls in is like at and T at one of those companies. How does that work? Somebody's locked up like they're literally answering. They're like customer service.

Customers, earners, what's up?

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So that's what jobs.

Because one of my friends he literally he came home two days ago and he told me he was working for I think it was att of the Rise and wanted them.

He was pick on the call and say hello, are you who would you like to speak to it?

He would direct the call in certain lines that he pressed and he would ford them to you know, that can give them certain home.

But he was the first line of calls that they called.

That's interesting because it's like, yeah, it's it's really you know, it's like you don't have a choice to do it because if you don't do it, what happens?

You get punished.

Right, it's in fraction, Right, he's an infraction.

You could lose your time then they can if you have parole or whatever, they can.

But that's part of the cycle, right, like that, and that's what keeps you there, right, So I commit this infraction now my time is longer now they make more money because I'm staying, you know what I'm saying.

It's all part of the same.

Circle, you know.

And I'm one of these people where you know, I hate conspiracy theory because I'm just the person that I like to deal with fact, right, But a lot of this stuff is kind of it's not a conspiracy. It's common sense where it's like, Okay, if I if I'm the CEO of a fortune five hundred company right now, the easiest option is to outsource it to like India what they do, but you still got to pay them something,

Some sense a day, right an hour?

Right cents an hour? I mean on the bottom company's bottom line. Why would it not? Why would I not do that? So being that that's a work population, you it's really no incentive not to have people in jails, if anything, is in the sense of to keep the jails full because you have a free.

People here.

Two million people that's that's locked up, that's that's working for free. And this is why it's not makes common sense that we have twenty five percent of the world's prison population only five percent of the.

World total population.

It's a big business.

It's a business when it all comes down to money.

At the end of the day, all comes down to money. And unfortunately, we came here as labor. That's what that's how black people brought to this country. So we maintained that, you know, and until we understand that reality and we stop, we stop punishing each other and stop figuring out how to build with each other, because everybody looks down on somebody else based on their circumstances or you don't got this, you you should have never did this, and not understanding

You know, they immediately.

When something happen as they move together because it represents they culture. When you look at the Jews, they have one culture, so it happens they all move together and one and it gives it gives them a sense of power. Even when you look at the Hispanic community, the Minigans in Puerto Ricans, they have a culture they form together. We the only people that might hang with the Puerto Ricans. We might be over here, we might be everywhere else. But I don't gotta do it just because you're black.

They're gonna feed them. You good black person. Come, They're gonna look at you like you got to head.

Feed you.

Unless you unless you they knew you from somewhere.

But the ain't no just black people gonna say, oh, this is a black dude, I'm gonna.

Make you good. It just don't work like that. So it shows the divide. We just don't move.

Being on the inside. Did people like did some of your comrades while you was locked up start to realize that the financial play behind it? Like what they starting to see like this, Like I'm out in the streets doing all of this, but this is actually a bigger play here, and now I'm working for free, for Lord and Taylor, all of these companies. Like did they Did they ever realize that inside? Did you ever have those kind of conversations with people inside?

It's the most the most brilliant people I ever met.

Was in prison. I met genius man and they never coming home.

Men who got convicted for stealing a dollar out of white women's purse, supposedly on robbery, doing thirty and forty years, you know, at seventeen and been getting hit at the board three and.

Four times like this, This is the reality that.

We come from, you know, the crimes that that people that our brothers are spending. If you if you heard the reality of what these crimes. I went to jail, I did seven and fourteen years, no record. I was going to John Jay College nothing for supposedly robin ten dollars from a cab driver with a gun that nobody ever found, nobody was ever hurt.

And he sends me this seven to.

Fourteen years and a problem in my life with record, deal all these things. People sending me letters like, oh, we'll do this for him, We'll make sure he's good. And they say, now we got to send him in jail for sef to ruin your life. You understand, said, this is the reality that our people come from. They don't have those realities in different communities.

You know.

I know, the white dude was convicted of raping some girl behind you know, and they're throwing in a dumpster, and they said, we're not putting him in jail because it's gonna mess up his college.

He's going to college, you know what I'm saying.

So this is this, this one, this is this is what we deal with.

This is a reality when we deal me.

So of course, this dude, when you get in there and you start to really look and say, damn, it's only us coming in these doors, and it's only us staying. You know, they to the minimum facilities where they're doing two and three years, don't matter what the crime, they're getting billions, they doing white collar crimes, getting a hundred million dollars and they going home for two and three years. You really tell you about her situation. She ended up doing ten years years.

People who put her on did one in two years.

You know, the people who made way more money than her ended up doing two years and one year or getting probation.

So and the only difference was the skin color, you know what I'm saying. So this is the reality that we deal with when you when we sit there. Of course we realize if you, if you have any level.

Of intellect, you realize as a play that this is a money then you know they giving they getting about fifty thousand a year for each inmate in there, and they don't provide nothing for you but a bed that just keeps going in and pay three pair of state greens everything else, and they give you a fucking a state mail every day that probably they probably spending about one thousand dollars a week on the whole prison.

Right they make it thirty.

And fifty thousand on each individual in that prison.

And it also helps the economy of the local town because these towns are like in the middle of nowhere, and the prison the prisoners, yeah, they counted as population. So like when they do the census, they get and so they taken out of their community.

They can't vote.

There's more people in the other community. And then they have like a thing where it's like, cause one of my cousins was was incarcerated in a federal penitentiary in Connecticut, and I want to visit them, and I think I had jeans on, so I didn't know that you couldn't wear a geen so you had to buy sweat. So I drove two hours to get there. I'm not going to not go. So they like, don't worry about it. There's a Marshals down the street, and they like that's convenient.

It's crazy.

Most person, it ain't gonna take you back because they're like, I ain't going back, and let me give me a kid of jeans, real quick, little.

Sweats, and I'm good.

There's gonna be a five hour ride back home. Now, I'm good.

And that's what we deal with. Man. It's like the whole town, the whole all them towns upstate. You know a lot of these towns.

I never wore killing all these that's the whole industry is prison.

There's nothing else Orleans. It's nothing. I went is in the jail.

Orleans and Benford Hills is right across the street, and everybody, all of the seons is like cousins.

Family. He was either family or he was married to his sister.

It was one town where all everybody in the town worked in the prison.

After you release.

Did you have to go through the probation process, because I know that's something that Meek talked about a lot and he's trying, you know, they're trying to do the reform project.

Can you talk about that a little bit.

Well, I didn't have to do probation.

I had to do parole, which is pretty much it's similar, but it's different, you know, as far as parole. When you on parole, you have a certain amount of time on parole excuse me, that you have to complete without being violated. So I came home. I did seven years in prison. I have a seven to fourteen means I either do seven or the maximum I could do is fourteen. So after I was released on my parole, that means

So that seven years could be like two to two and then one yeoh, you can just be doing.

Good, nothing booming.

We're gonna violate you three years or we're gonna max out on your Whatever they want to do for probation is different because they can continue keep starting your probation over probation period means that we're gonna suspend your sentence for five years, but you can't get into any trouble within that five years, and if you do, we get start it.

All the way over again.

And trouble can be any anything, any form. That's why the Meek Mill thing was, it was he's a celebrity, he's a you know, one of the top rappers.

So that really highlighted.

But there's millions of stories like that for even word, even a Nipsey Hustle situation. Rest in peace. But remember the guy that was just there and he got arrested. Let him out be because it was so ridiculous, But he literally got shot and he got arrested. He got

But you to say that it is to not understand that that's what this country is built. We built on slavery. They just figured out a new way to call it. Like we came here, came here as work, as slaves. We came here as slaves, and we.

Did all of the labor. You know, we were to come out of it.

So they figured out when it ended, slavery just figured out how do we continue to justify it. I put it in my phone as the French up. They don't call you slaves no more. They call you prim you know what I'm saying. So now it's in the it's in the constitution. Slavery is illegal or less when you get arrested. So that means now they've legalize slavery. So in order for the country to continue to it's built on capitalism.

So capitalism has to flourish.

The reason why capitalism flourishes is because there has to be a group of people that can just continue to feed the upper edge of them in jail.

Is the way the lower class are gonna do crimes.

They're gonna die, they're gonna they're gonna spend all their money. And and that is how the other people stay rich. They figure out ways to continue to profit. They're not gonna spend their money, so they figure out ways to profit off of you.

So for them, for you to say they gonna.

Write in the Constitution if they can't make money the way that they make money, it ain't that gonna make sense to them. That's why they That's why when when you hear that's why they try to get rid over. But that's why they Immediately Barama was trying to end all. Obama was trying to end all what you call. He was trying to end the prisons. He was trying to end private prisons. And when he when he they immediately stopped at you know, see what I'm saying. He was trying

You know, what I'm saying. So even so.

When they do this prison reform, it's a strategy prison reform, Right, Okay, we're gonna say, we're gonna let we're gonna let the non violent prisoners out. We're gonna let people who got drugs, We're gonna let them out warm. We're gonna make sure that everybody who commits something that we call violence just never comes home.

And we're gonna create.

Situations to where violence is inevitable, you know, saying so we're gonna create. Now, we got a pandemic with we know the communities in our communities is gonna be broken. They're gonna be hit the hardest. It's gonna be a couple of dudes they got it and others who don't. So after this pandemic, it's gonna be a hot summer. It's no activities, no clubs to go to. There's no parties, there's no sports. You just outside in the heat all day. Kids, is gonna get it.

The crime, the crime raid is gonna Scott Scott wide.

In New York City. They you know, they're getting rid of Rock and Island. They're putting a prison on East Borough. That's the proposal.

It's crazy.

It's crazy because I never hear about new schools being built in these boroughs.

But that is a headline. Man. I mean, I know you do work in the schools. What's your thoughts.

They don't build schools, you know what I'm saying. Most of these schools is the school to prison plapeliners. Most of these schools look like prisons. You know, I've been in prison. Most of these schools are pretty much models for for you preparing our kids from prison.

That's crazy. You said that.

I had It's crazy and he's don't remember the story. When I was in the Bronx, I was teaching. I had Shoty come speak for career day and soon he went through the metal detector and say, Yo.

What the hell is this Like?

Literally, it looked like the forty seven precinct, like the blue paint, the bars, the metal detectors, security walking around everywhere. I was like, Yo, damn, this is real, Like people. I don't think people really understand that that school to prison pipeline suspending kids, not providing them with adequate education, so they're more likely to not even go to school, so they're back on the streets and what's gonna happen.

They gonna feed the beasts.

Man, that's the reality.

That's what is important that they see people like you and meet in these schools because we.

Are able to identify with that reality.

We are able to identify with the fact that you're young, you're energetic, you don't really see the need in school. You fidgety, you want to see girls, you want money, and we able to redirect that. We able to make these classrooms comfortable and fun enough to where the average.

Person don't want to come.

I'm gonna go there because oh, he gonna be there, and that's my cool teacher. Let me go to make sure I bought this class you.

Know, see what I'm saying.

We saw create institutions that reflect what our culture is. We don't learn the same way everybody else. We don't want to sit at the desk and look at chalkboarding right now. We want to be moving around, We want

You know what I'm saying, you would see higher levels of people going.

To school and the school instead they create some ship that they know that we a it's not for us.

It's tough because, like I said, man, education is important, but a lot of people, especially in our community, don't aspire to be in education. They don't aspire to be teachers. It's not enough money, you know what I'm saying. Like we grow up, it's like y'all want I want to be this, I want to be a rapper. I want to Nobody aspires to be in education when everybody that you talk to has started there, you know what I mean.

Only they may see you and say like, wait, I could be that. I mean that is super important.

You can see it to be.

So we talked about the economics of prison, but that's only half of the conversation because even when you come out, there's a whole economic play behind that. Right, it's like being in a halfway house and they get paid per bed and then it's like you got to give a portion of your paycheck back to the state. And I know you had a program helping people out with their credit,

That process is if you don't if you're not in the know, you don't have around you that can educate you. You know, especially right now, we understand that if you don't have credits, you don't have nothing.

You know.

So a lot of these dudes coming home and into more money, and they got cash getting them with cash, you can't get an apartment, you can't do anything, you know, So that transition is is different. Especially it depends on when you how long have you been in prison. This dude's just coming home now and been in jail twenty twenty five years, you know, so they trying to figure out, like what do we do next?

How we do this? In that process is slow, it's it's different.

You know.

I was blessed enough to have people to put me to see, hell, we're gonna get your cell phone, and you gotta do this, you know, because when I when I left there, I barely had a cell phone. I had one of the first cell phones and in the two way, so it.

Wasn't it was. It was way different.

So when I came home and it was you know, cell phone, and we had to get an Instagram and I had to get what was it my Space? I came home with my Space. I was blessed enough to have people that.

Put you any thing.

So it's it's a lot to readjust yourself to in prison, and a lot of times people don't, and they become institutionalized because it's easier to live in prison because they can do things for you.

You get three miles. All you gotta do is we state greens.

You know, if you're a person who don't have no family, no nothing, they don't have no support system, then it's easier. Or even if it's not easier, you you don't mind going to prison. You're like, I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna throw a brick. I'm robbing this. Either'm gonna get a million. If not, then I'm just gonna come back here. I know I'm good here, I'm gonna get three meals and I'm just gonna be chilling.

And you know how to I know the CEO's here.

My name is heavy into jail like some people have, that's become their life and they institutionalize and they can't survive outside because it's not it's moving too fast, or they don't know how to adjust, they don't have nobody to help them adjust, and they realize that, you know.

So that's what they call people being institutionalized.

You see a lot of dudes that come out you probably know them, that they'd be out.

For a week or two and you be like, damn this, they're going back to jail again.

Yeah, it's like and it's like what he did, like howie And you don't get it, but he he got in his mind that he can't survive out here, you know what I'm saying, rather than say that he just gonna do something that's so outlanded and then go to jail, you know.

And and and that's what it creates.

So you know, I wanted to have this conversation to raise awareness, but we never want to leave anything on a damp or note.

So what is there?

Because the whole point of what you're doing as far as activist is to create change, right So now it's like the first part I think for people to be inspired to make change is to actually be aware of what's going on, because a lot of people just are are ignorant to that fact. And not ignorant in a bad way. They just don't know, right, and and that's really a good thing. It's like, you know, you shouldn't know what jail is like hopefully you don't. You never

There's so many different avenues. I want to shout out my brother Jay Jordan. He lives in California and he started a program called Tim Done.

We know Jay Jordan.

We spoke to him and watch watch Yeah yeah, yeah, we spoke to him.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying, Jays he's out there doing the Times Done. Like the last time I was with Nipsey, we did a concert with Times Done.

That Jay had put together.

You know, it was probably like four or five months before Nipsey passed away. And so anyway, he's doing the times in concert I mean Time Done initiative where basically, after you serve your time, after.

A certain amount of time, you.

Get to get your your your record a sponge, you know, completely exponge.

Because what happens just the stigma of being a felon. You know you can it's over. It says over three thousand jobs that you can't have.

It's like a letter yea, you know the things jobs. You can't be a barber, you can't be a dog walker, you can't be a babies, like certain certain things you just can't be at all if you if you if you have a you know, a felony. So he's working to get those. I think they're pat They're about to pass it in California, and like initiatives like that, we have to support those type of initiatives.

We got to look at those, bring them over here. We also have to we have to as.

Individuals stop stigmatizing each other. You know what I'm saying, because it's easy, you know, like even when I'm watching this a ma Aubrey case, right, And it's it's people that where we come from. It's like that trying to justify this man being killed. Like I've heard people like, well he shooted did this? Or or he walked into this abandoned house. Oh that's what so you telling me me walking into a house where they do a construction justifies you killing me like that that makes sense to you?

Thought he was trespassing, Give him a ticket for trespassing.

But what is this man the right to approach him with a gun and and and shoot him?

And they said he wasn't he wouldn't comply. We who are you to.

A random person driving down the street with a shotgun pointed at me?

And I'm st to comply to you?

Like this is the mindset and us as if some of us have adopted it. We're dealing with, you know, we're dealing with Stockholm syndrome, in which we start to identify and love the people.

Who oppressident.

We had to stop that, like we we can't get bored or credits the ship that don't make sense like you can't when we when we saying yo, it's a million people in prison, and in prison is probably the biggest population that can be effected from the coronavirus, and they can die easier to anybody because she's like a Petri dish.

You know, understand that. And people I don't care they did a crime.

You don't know what nobody did that's in prison and they're not saying to death. Why would you be okay with just sacrificing those people lives, their fathers, they husbands, they brothers to people like, we have to start humanizing people who get incarcerated, because some people get in cans ready to come home and they do brilliant things. Some people don't even belong in prison. Every day we find out that somebody's conviction is overturned.

So we have to take.

That stigma and that that false narrative that everybody that's inside of prison is just trash.

And the reality is that the vast majority of people have has done something that at some point, big or small, you've done something in your life where if a cop was there and if write circumstances, you could have potentially been in jail.

And I was gonna say, this is a living testament, Like we've had a number of guests ONALSIA that have been incarcerated and have come out to do amazing things, you know what I mean. So that's that's what the importance of this is. Like what we said earlier is like, Yo, we got to see it and we got to keep highlighting stories like that.

So everybody that's.

Been in that situation or cans had somebody that is near that situation. It's like, Yo, no, it's not over, but there's plenty of opportunities out here for us.

Yeah.

I taught a financial literacy class in jail. Shout out to Tony Earl, My god. He you know, Tony's a good dude. He had a jail a program in Rockland County and I taught. And that was my first time teaching financial literacy and jail teaching in school and stuff like that, and I was pleasantly surprised. It was one of the best experiences I had. Like they was all asking me questions, like they was like really paying attention.

They was really stupid.

A lot of them really knew a lot in regardless stocks and cryptocurrency, like they were doing it like you know what I'm saying, So I say, I have to say it's like, don't look down on somebody just because they're incarcerated, because everybody has an opportunity to change their life. You don't know what they're incarcerated for, and regardless of anything, is like, the whole point of being a human is to be a better person tomorrow than you were today,

Everybody does. It's just it's impossible not to so mice, man.

Appreciate I appreciate you taking your time out to kick it with us. Like I said, you know something that we wanted to do for a while. So I'm glad that. I'm glad we had an opportunity to talk about this.

I'm glad to have it. Man, this is a dope conversation, good energy. Man. Hopefully somebody hear this and take heed to this.

Man. Understand that we're all human, man, you know, we all go to ups and downs. You make mistakes, sometimes you make the wrong term. Some of us are blessed enough. You know that our mistakes didn't turn out to be tragic. They didn't land us in prison, you know, so we should be we should be blessed for that and try to pay it forward, you know, because understanding that we could at some point, we probably could have ended up on the opposite. So, you know, don't look down on

Yeah.

Prayers up to everybody that that's incarcerated, family, friends, brothers and sisters that are fighting coronavirus inside of prison. That's a real situation that I don't think people really understand. Right, we were on the outside like complain like, Yo, we can't go and we can't leave a house. But we're talking about a place where it's overcrowded already. There's no way to social distances. It's a real situation. So prayers up to everybody that is fighting that and facing that right now.

I was watching CNBC yesterday and they said they were saying, like some of the prisons, like the population, how muchy people have crazy marrying Marrying Indiana and that's like a real well known prison. I think it's like underground. Eighty five percent of the prison population has Corona.

In Texas, same thing, they tested twenty four hundred inmates, seventy five percent tested positive.

It's that's that's crazy crazy.

And obviously there's underlying health issues with people that are incarcerated and a lot of people probably gonna die health issues.

Yeah, the fact that it is not come for oxygen, right, I don't understanding.

If you look, you look at the numbers from the coronavirus and you're looking with most of the people, the mortality rate is highest in places where people are inside looking own folks homes and things like that, where people are trapped inside oka when you look at a prison, that's it's nothing else. You inhaling the same ears. Somebody's breathing all day. It's not like no frushating windows.

Nowhere, same shower, shame toilet, like public space. It's like eighty five percent of the population and that person has corona Like that Really surprised.

I'm like, wow, that's how do you how do you stop one hundred percent from getting it? And it doesn't just stop with the prisoners, because you have CEOs that are in the prison that go home to their families that now bring it, you know what I'm saying.

So it's like a real situation.

I don'tly think people are fully grasping the magnitude of.

Out Yeah, it's an issue.

But anything you want to make the public aware of, any initiatives you got going on, any music too.

We ain't get a chance to talk about music, but I know you still you still spar still.

We didn't get a heare to talk about that, But any projects that you're working on, anything you want to make the public.

Well, my project been out for a couple of months. I did so now for sales. Probably my favorite mixtape that I did in a long time. So I would advise you to go download. I just wrote this new children's book, I Know My Rights. It's important, especially based on what we were talking about now it's talking about the Bill Rights. I broke down the first ten amendments of the Bill of Rights, and you know too for children from like age eight unto high schools. It's really

What we were with the book is so dope.

Where can we purchase You could purchase it on Amazon and had so many different like the animation on it is like fire Right, the whole animation of it, and it's just like like I took pictures of my kids.

This is like one of my sons. They took they like drew sons.

Like on the cover, this is the little this is my son, this is my son, and this is my son. So like you know what I'm saying, I try to make it real do for people. Talks about the right to vote, the right to religion, Wow, you know what I'm saying.

So I'm gonna get I'm gonna get that for myself right now or Amazon definitely, Yeah, I'm gonna get that for myself. I was just thinking summer reading. We gotta have something for him and dude, So I'm not gonna be playing.

It's gonna be this is different Troy Household items.

Shout to everybody on Patreon dot com. We got a few new members.

Shout to Shyanne she's a tear four member, and Mark and Baked Beans and Rice. So we're looking forward to heaven. Yeah, we're looking forward to having those conversations. We appreciate your support and everybody. If you looking to join Patreon, Patreon dot com, Backslash and your leisure, we have, like we said, five different tiers. You can join anyone and they all come with different incentives. To four and five, we'll get you access to.

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Uy L University is one of the fastest growing online universities in the world, so feel free to join that.

And uh.

One of those other incentives.

Is that you have access to our private real estate Facebook group man, and that has just been killing it.

Man.

A lot of learnings going on in there.

We have a movie club, a book club, we have webinars. It's incredible, man, So everybody that's been joining that, we appreciate it. And everybody's supporting the Merchi. On uner leisure dot com. We got to access of a liability shot. You got the you got the tracksuit on Man. The tracksuit was was kind of crazy. I actually have to give my my red one away. It was it was that hot. So shout out to everybody that's supporting the Memerchi and continue support it.

Man.

Yeah for sure.

So we're gonna send you some stuff get you Yeah for sure.

Yeah.

Make sure you like and subscribe on YouTube. That's important. Comment all of that, and thank you guys for rocking with us.

We'll see you next week.

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