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All right, guys, Welcome back, e y L Hometown Heroes editions right for sure, for sure for sure. So we are in d C right now. Just finished up crazy crazy event we had top go up, got like two hundred people there. It was crazy.
You know.
Somebody said they were like yo, man, this is crazy. Everybody I follow on social media in this room right now, how y'all do this?
Shout out?
Shout out to Shout out to everybody that came to the event. Shout out to our god Sharani for.
Sure, Capital Capital, Capital Event.
Group, Capital Events Group.
Shout out to the boy Trani he is. He's amazing man.
So if you're in d C and you need an event plan or curated, get the contact. Follow him on Instagram. I'm sure we'll put a post up about it. You took care of us man. DC would not be the same without him here.
Thank you for the hospitality, bro, appreciate it. And what's coy? Tom's coy for Sure Networking Power Network and Atlanta You're next January twenty fifth, January twenty sixth.
We're gonna take over the whole city. We're gonna do.
A big, big, big, big big. You can't play around with Atlanta. Yeah, facts the fact.
Every time we say Atlanta, if you know, you know, man, shout out to the great city of Atlanta.
Can't wait to touch the town. We're gonna be releasing details soon. Details might have already been released by this episode comes out, but we're gonna yeah, we're gonna do it really really big. So we have a dope episode played today and it is Yes, hometown Heroes, even though we're in d C. It's not a DC hometown hero, but it's a yeah, it's a Milwaukee, Wisconsin hometown hero that lives in DC and Milwaukee.
So my man Brandon Rule.
It was interesting because like, I think you had the article on we Buy Black and it went viral and then like Troy Troy sent it to me, and then somebody else sent it to me and then but I didn't read it in full transparency because he sends me like seven articles a day. But like by the time the third person read it sent it to me, I read it, I'm like, yo, we should probably interview. He's like yeah, I sent it to you two weeks ago. So I'm like so, and I hit you up like
are you interested in coming? Like yeah, somebody actually just told me about your Yeah.
He was like, Yo, this is.
Like one of the quickest turnarounds. Yeah yeah, Like two weeks ago. I was like, Yo, this guy's dope. A man came from Detroit hit me like yo, just guys hope. I'm like, yeah, I just read about him and then like the next week he was like, Yo, he's gonna come on.
I'm like, oh, this is great.
It was easy one, two three. So Brandon, Brandon's dope. He's thirty one years old and he's a We talked about real estate a lot. Most of the time from our podcast is real Estate Investors, which is dope, wholesaling, buying, flip stuff like that. But he's a developer, right, and
he's young. He's thirty one years old, and he most of his developments are in uh Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and he has forty million dollars of affordable housing currently under his belt as far as development, and then one hundred and eighty million dollars in the pipeline. And yeah, for sure, it just got awarded a huge forty one million dollars.
Forty one million for the first phase for the first fall in the second.
And that's gonna be for a grocery store.
The first thing.
You're gonna do thousand, score thirty thousand square for a grocery store with one hundred.
And fifty apartments in the parking grash. Yeah parks.
Yeah, So this is gonna be a high level conversation.
It's gonna be get in the ways if y'all want to.
Yeah, So, first and foremost, thank you, Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it, appreciate it, appreciate it, appreciate you.
So all right, so before we before we even get into the nitty gritty of what you're doing, how did you get started? It's an interesting story because if people don't know who the legend peoples are, and that's unfortunate that it's it's a really unfortunate situation if you think about it, because it's like everybody knows whose Lebron is right,
everybody knows whose Lil Wayne is right. But this guy has definitely more money a little way, not shut the toms, no, no disrespect, but probably like almost the same amount of money and Lebron maybe more money than Lebron, right, Like he's on his way close to being a billionaire, right, And he's black developer from DC, from DC, and not a lot of people are really familiar with him. So he kind of I bring him up because he kind of he's the start of your real estate journey, right
and you see, at least in DC for sure. So yeah, what's your what's your path in real estate, and what's your path to coming to d C from Milwaukee?
For sure, I'll just start from the beginning for real so from Milwaukee. But I was actually born in Los Angeles, California, So I was born in LA And in nineteen ninety four, I was in the earthquake, the North Is earthquake. At the time, it was the worst natural disaster and financial worst natural disaster financially in American history, so over a billion dollars worth of damages, one of that being my home.
So we lost everything, slept outside for a few days, remember vaguely like being outside of the Walmart and just not having any resources. The highways were broken, everything. So my parents are high school sweethearts from Chicago. My dad was like, I ain't with this, We're going back. So my grandfather was living in Milwaukee at the time. We ended up moving to Milwaukee into his attic as we got back on their feet. A couple months later, rented
the house and then moved forward. So from that point forward, I grew up in Milwaukee. And if anyone knows anything about Milwaukee's actually the worst place for black people in America right now, Google it. It'll pop up in many articles, many reports.
I saw a statistic.
It was like, specifically Madison with six percent of the population is black, but fifty percent of the people incarcerated or black.
Oh yeah, he's crazy easy. Yeah, Madison is ridiculous too. Raight saying is ridiculous too. Milwaukee is actually closer to forty percent black. But we have national problems, but just not national resource. Very similar to a Detroit, very similar to a Baltimore. But no one's really looking there. You don't hear about black folks from Milwaukee.
Black people don't leave. It's just a thing. Average.
I think media income in Milwaukee for a black person is twenty eight thousand dollars.
A black family twenty one thousand dollars family like a family.
Of four, just a family period, a black family, let's say two parent family three to four is not always two parents, but twenty eight thousand dollars is an average for a family in Milwaukee. And that's very much so with me, my friends, my family, everybody. That's my roots, that's who I am, that's where I'm from.
But I needed to break that. So I went to school.
All of my all of my family were influenced by my grandfather who was a very successful street pharmacist.
And yeah, I the language yet that which is important.
It's important that we're gonna file that where we had returning citizens.
Yeah, for sure, that's going to that same the China citizens. Any checked your needout. She actually was the first person I heard returning citizens. But yeah, so he was a street pharmacist and he influenced my entire family. He was an entrepreneur. He was really you know, it was the first millionaire in the family. By the time I came, he got hit with the Rica Law and we didn't have any money again, so I didn't really have that benefit.
But I say that to say.
I was the one that wanted to change the trajectory of the entire family. So I went to school, did it a different way. I was always like the chosen one. It's like, okay, cool, you got it. Went out to school, grew up in the Milwaukee public school system, was actually one of the worst in the country as well. Wear that on my sleeve because you know, you can come
from any environment and make it right the fact. So when went on to school, went on the Marque University study economics, mining in sociology, So I think that kind of gave me the background that I needed in real estate economics, understanding capitalism. A lot of people think money is bad when it.
Really is just a tool.
It's a tool to leverage in a way that you do any other tool. Right, So study economics, but also study sociology. How do people fit within this? How does the people from the hood fit within this capitalistic society that we live within.
So that was my foundation.
Then my senior year, junior, senior year, fourth year, I took a program called the ACRE program, which stands for Associates and Commercial real Estate, and that pretty much exposed me to what commercial real estate development was because like many other folks, I hear real estate and like, do you think of a broker, You think of a realtor, But there's so many other things when it comes to
real estate. You like so many professions. So when you think about a development process, a civil engineer, environmental engineer, geotechnical engineer, an architect, a contractor, a developer, a lender, there's so many different avenues that you can get into. So that program exposed me to that, and then it's like, okay, well, developers make a lot of money. I wanted financial freedom and I wanted some flexibility.
So I was like, okay, well.
I think I want to do this, and then that's when I started on my real estate path. While doing that, I got my hands on a book called The People's Principles, which was written by Don Peebles. Don Peebles, billionaire black developer from DC. That's where it started, then moved on to Miami and went to Vegas and now it's based in New York.
And read this book. Really was inspired by.
The really technical things that he said within it. It's like, this is how I became what I became. And I was like, oh, this is great. Okay, well I'm a follow a similar path which is doing my way. So in twenty seventeen, I got my twenty sixteen, I got my first low income housing tax credit. So affordable housing developments in the past were financed through Section eight. So if you think about a Section eight property, Kabrini Greens
in Chicago. You know some of these really large berry farms in DC, really large complexes three four hundred units and really just clusters of poverty. That's how they were financing it. But now they use a tool called Section forty two IRIS Code, which is a tax credit. So we are given a tax credit that we sell to an investor and use that to finance the project.
Can you can you explain that a little bit, because yeah, we Section eight. I think most people know what sectionate is, right, where it's like it's government and they subsidize housing, right, and but section that you don't have to live in the projects, like you can have a house.
So there's two different types.
There's Section eight project based vouchures, so projects got the Section eight assistance, but then they were also like people based boxing, right where you can.
Take that you go into like a house, and they pay the landlord. So what's the new way?
Section forty two is the primary tool for affordable housing. There's still some Section eight, there's still some vouchures, but Section forty two just really high level. If you think about a building, and you think about developing a building, it may cost forty million dollars to develop a building, right.
Tip.
In order to fund that building, you need rents that'll pay you enough to then get a bank to give you a loan, So you need a construction loan, and then you need permanent financing. So in order to get the construction loan, one of the threshold items is, hey, how much is the loan to value of this projected property.
So if your.
Value based on rents being at fifteen hundred dollars a month, it equates to forty million dollars.
You can then build.
Who's doing the assessment of how much each.
One is worth? Each unit? The market kind of determines that.
So drilling deeper into that, let's say fifteen hundred per equates to forty million dollars. Let's say now you're in an area that rents can only be seven hundred and fifty dollars per People still need to live, but we still need additional housing. In order to build that, the government created a tax credit that subsidized developers for the difference.
So if the seven fifty gives me twenty million, I effectively are gonna get I'm gonna get twenty million in a tax credit to then make it balance.
And make it work.
They so they'll pay you the developer.
They pay the project, they say, the project. They pay, not you personally, but they fund the project.
And they allocate a tax credit to the developer to sell on behalf of.
The project, so they pay that the person paid seven hundred and one thousand dollars if it was seventeen hundred and one thousand dollars is being paid.
Through through the tax credit upfront, and in exchange for the tax credit, you have to restrict the rents for a certain amount of time fifteen years, thirty years, et cetera. And the rent is like market based. Yeah, so it's based on the area median income. So that's really like how they determine it. And they have different thresholds. So a thirty percent unit is like very low income, a fifty percent unit and a sixty percent unit is what we.
Will call workforce or affordable housing.
And then you have eighty percent units as well that can be financed through this tax credit. And that's based on So take the one hundred thousand dollars area media income in DC, UH fifty percent unit is fifty thousand dollars. If a person makes fifty thousand dollars in DC, they can qualify for affordable housing under this threshold. You take thirty percent of that income divided bout twelve months. That's how you come out to the rent amount that you can pay okay.
So okay, yeah, so it's a little deep. Sorry, No, that's that's right, up eyol. That's what we do. That's the whole. It's right, A lot of numbers right in line with our content. So you meet you meet Don. People's right, yeah, and how does that go?
Yeah?
So twenty seventeen, I jumped out. He was speaking at a conference in DC, and I was like, I have to meet this guy. So I still by the door, very to nice said, I'm an ambitious guy by nature, a type personality. If I want time, I'm gonna go get it. And I wanted to meet him, so I went introduced myself. I just received that tax credit. That's why I wanted to get a story, just receive the tax credit. I was about to develop my first project. Hey Don, what's up branding? I got my first project in,
I got a couple more of my pipeline. Would love to connect. And he was impressed by what I was doing because my age. I think I was twenty six twenty seven at the time, and his first project I was twenty seven. He was awarded his first project at twenty seven as well. So I was on that path. It's like Okay, yeah, this is the only black billionaire doing what I'm doing.
I need to meet him.
So we met, had a phone call about a month later, and the biggest takeaway I took from that phone call was he said, work on larger deals. So at that time I did was twelve and a half million. I had another deal that was about fourteen million, and I had another deal that was like seven million. The fourteen million dollar deal was a market rate. It wasn't an
affordable housit development actually never went through. I'll talk on that too, But I needed to raise about one and a half from equity investors in order to finance the project. And you just, you know, go out to folks, get one hundred thousand here, two fifty there, you know, et cetera, et cetera, and he pray much just put it in perspective for me, said, I just raised five hundred million dollars in New York and this is the easiest money
ever raise. Because institutional capital, the demand on that is so it's so much so, it's so much less than the demand on every day individuals and investments. Because you can invest in stocks, you can invest in bonds, you can invest in a different real estate project, you can invest in your kids college fund. Individuals have so many options, but institutional capital needs places to put this money. So he told me to work on larger deals, and I said, about three months later I moved to DC.
That reminds me of three stories, So I'll take it one by one. Well, first off, you know how one of the people that really got don people's into the game, Barry and Barry for sure. You know that legend, DC legend rest in peace. So that's one story. The second story is that that also that what you said reminds me.
I watched the interview with Magic Johnson and called a shout out to both of them, and Magic told Maverick he said, the same amount of time that it takes to do a deal for one million, it takes to do one hundred million, So do one hundred million because.
It's the same energy. It's same energy. It's not like it's not you have to do additional energy. It's the same energy output. It's just you're focusing your energy on the small guy level. You can focus your energy on big, or you can focus your ines on small. The third one was Byron Allen. He was on a breakfast club, and he just said what you said. As far as like what, especially in institutions, a lot of times they have a problem where they have to they have to spend money.
They have to they have to spend money.
They raised it. They have exactly there looking for. They have whole teams devoted to look for opportunities, which means they have whole teams devoted to look to say where can I give money away to different deals? And how can I position this Because I have five hundred million dollars at the sothing.
It was just five hundred so it's real raise your hand please, So, but you have to understand the key to that. You have to understand that language. It's a language of finance. That's the way I look at it. It's no different from English verse Spanish. We all know English, some people know Spanish, some people know finance.
It's just a language.
And if you understand the language, and if you understand what they are saying and what they are looking for, you can make it work.
So how did you I'm interested to notice because you started in the game very young twenty early twenties and twenty three. You know humble beginnings, like your family was in real estate. So how do you get your first deal? How do you learn the language? How do you get your first deal in real estate as a developer? Like how does that? Can you walk me through that process, like your very first deal, Like how does that happen?
So my first deal was actually a four unit investment. It was a real estate investment type. Okay, it was a hud home on the north west side of Milwaukee by Hoole. Yeah, I just sold it about a year and a half ago. I bought that when I was twenty three. So let me rewind. Three and a half percent down it was only eighty five thousand dollars and I sawed for like one sixty So that was like, well played different, you know, it makes sense. So that
was my entry entry point, but rewinding. So once I finished the acre program, I'm like, Okay, this real estate thing is cool. I think I want to figure out how to be a developer. I spent a lot of time trying.
To put the pieces of the puzzles together. So I started going to events.
I went to a ton of conferences, a ton of seminars, gallas, all types of things. I was just searching for people and information and knowledge, and I equated it to like putting together a puzzle.
Right, It's like, if this is the real estate.
Puzzle, how do I find the pieces and then how do I put them together? So I met a guy by the name of Keith Broaden. No. First, I went to an awards bank Will called the Mandy Awards's Community Development Awards in the city of Milwaukee. I'm actually up for I'm a finalist of a real estate awards. O.
So congratulations, thank you. I'm sure you'll win.
Yeah, appreciated this episode put over the finish line. So yeah.
I went to this awards banquet and I met a gentleman by the name of Wayman Winston Waymon Winston was the executive director of Weeda. Weeda is the housing authority that a ministers the longcome housing tax credits. So I was like, yeah, I want to be a developer, et cetera, et cetera. He was like, well, if you want to be a developer, come to this conference. This is the
developers conference. It's going to be all developers. There's gonna be lenders, there's gonna be architects, syndicators, anyone that plays in this arena. In the State of Wisconsin will be here at the conference. Conference is like a couple of hundred dollars. I didn't have. It ended up getting sponsored somehow. I think I like figured out a way to fin my way up there. So you know, I threw on
a suit. I had a little nappy frow at the time, and I just was meeting everyone I could meet, and I ran into this gentleman who I just saw.
A few weeks ago. Keith brought next.
He was working at Great Lakes Capital which is now call sing There their syndication firm. They raised fun and then the minister they pretty much purchased the tax credits on behalf of investors, and he gave me my first pro former. So a performer is essentially an Excel document that pretty much is the business plan for real estate development.
And what that does.
It allows you to understand how much this will cost to build and how it will perform over the next fifteen to thirty years. So he gave me this performer and I had no clue what it was. I wasn't really a finance I was an economics major, but I wasn't a math or finance guy really, So I was just diving in and I tried to figure it out.
So I would like google every term. You know.
Google university is a thing, YouTube university is a thing.
You know.
I was googling every single term trying to understand.
You know what else today eyl university.
That's the thing you need. It's a real thing, okay, but even better you know, by us.
So yeah, I was just googling all of the terms within this document and I just started to work in it.
So I was working at the bank at the time.
I was working at pen and C Bank as a personal banker and making twenty three thousand dollars a year. And I was like, man, I can't this is my life, Like, I'm not about to just be wearing these nice suits, getting up at six in the morning, get home at six pm.
Doing this for the rest of my life. I can't do it.
So I would then get off work and then go back to work from seven to midnight, seven to one, seven to two.
Every single day.
I was in that pro form of working for years, educating, educating myself in that no articles, pub no press, no publication, no payments, every single day I was working. So what then happened was I realized that I was only making about fifteen hundred after taxes per month. And then I came across this four unit that was eighty five thousand dollars in Milwaukee. In Milwaukee, so I put three and
a half percent down. I was running out there. I think the rents were about six hundred apiece, maybe six twenty five, you know, do the math on that twenty four My mortgage was about one thousand, So I was clearing fourteen just off of this when I was only clearing fifteen at the bank. I quit my job the moment I bought the four unit. I couldn't quit before because I needed to show the income to.
About a four yunit. But once I once I closed, I quit. I was out of there.
That then gave me the freedom to dig deeper into this real estate thing. Now you spend in the entire time, all my time, energy and effort was going towards real estate development.
Specifically. I knew investing was cool, but I.
Wanted to figure out how to be a developer because the fees associated with it are great. You know, just to break it down, for real developer doesn't get a forty million dollar payment or anything like that. But you on the market right side, you may see three to six percent of the total costs. So if you're working on a one hundred million dollar deal, do the math. On the affordable side, you get about ten to fifteen percent tennis to see really on the total project costs.
So you so so so if you do a forty million dollar deal, you get ten percent.
That's four million dollars correct.
Yeah, yes, to ten to fifteen percent depending on what.
He took a ladder.
Somewhere, don't load somewhere around, respected respect it. So so so to that point it was like, okay, let me figure out how to do this development thing. I worked in his model. Boom boom, boom bom. I saw the numbers. So I'm like, oh, that making some real life money in this thing. So figured it out, so I start working. I met with him again, showed him and it was terrible. He helped me met a consultant that does development consultant and she was actually CPA as well, Charlena Brown basedide
of Atlanta. She helped me hone my skills when it came to my performer, my model. So what we did was just I was I would try to work in it. I would send it to her, she would edit it, send it back, and eventually I got good. It's like okay, yeah, I know how to do a project. So then I started looking for a project. So are you doing this on a platform? What's the Excel? Microsoft ex sale? That was on my computer? You could one hundred out a computer from best Buy, download ex sale and you working.
That's it. That's it. You don't need any anything else.
So I'm just teaching myself all the language, teaching myself how to do things.
So I started swinging at projects and I was missing. But it was one.
It was a city on RFP request for a proposal, very similar to the one that I just wanted Madison.
That one.
I ended up pitching it to a developer and I'm like, yo, let's co develop this project. Here's my model for it. Would you guys be willing to split the developer fee and the ownership?
The model is?
What's what's the model is another name for the pro former?
My bad, what's the performer?
The performer is the business plan for real estate development in the Excel.
In my mind, I'm taking developer, performer.
And model are They're the same thing? So I'm using them interchangeably. So it's like it's like the blueprint. It's the blueprint, the financial blueprint, financial blueprint for real estate development.
How does developer do the physical blueprint as well? Or that's going to be somebody down the line with.
We outsourced some Some development shops can have an architectural person on hand, but I outsource it.
So all right, So you you study, you learn, you learn how to make a financial blueprint for a project like this is my vision, this is financially how it makes sense. You don't have any experience. So you go to another established developer. They've done it all, they've done it already, and you say, I already have the blueprint, let's work together, and this week is split.
Yeah.
So so now I'm creating value. That's the key to get any partnership. You have to create value for the other person. It's not about what you want, is what they want and how can you give it for them?
Right?
So it's like, okay, I mean, I'm gonna give you all a real number. So I think that project was let's say ten million dollars. It was a ten million dollars deal. You know, nine was twelve percent So we was at one point two and I'm like, all right, well, can we go.
Fifty to fifty on it? All right, let's have let's take a risk, let's let's apply for it.
See if we get it. If so, let's trigger it out. If not, cool, keep it pushing. So I pitched it, and at that point I knew it's like, wait a minute, I just created six hundred thousand dollars just from my mind.
With a developer that does this for real, so I cannot do it.
I was probably like twenty four, twenty five maybe, so that was the first time I actually knew.
Shortly thereafter I actually took a job. It was very intentional.
So a twenty four you got the six hundred Nah.
That never went through work, that never worked out, but they agreed to it. But they agreed to it, and that's all I needed to know that I can do possible. It was possible at that point. I'm here, I'm a developer.
Now you can't.
Ain't nobody taking this from me. So I ended up getting a job surely there after. I didn't get that money was running low. Yeah, I had the you know, four unit things like that. That was fine, but I got a job working at a cd OFFI a real job, A real job, Okay, yeah, real job. What's a cd A CD of FI is a community development financial institution.
Oh yeah, we we just learned about that. Yeah.
Sorry about I'm I'm a slow learner.
Yeah, I think I heard.
There was a young lady.
There was a young lady here was talking just about the CDFIs, right, so bright.
Yeah, shout out to the bright woman. Uh so, yeah, I worked. I ended up getting a job. It was actually half time for two CDFIs. I was the only person in the country to do this. But I worked for Forward Community Investments. They were a mission based community lender that provided loans to small businesses and then in Community Reinvestment Fund. They were a national nonprofit that did the same thing in a different way. So one was a state based focused on Wisconsin. The other one was national,
also targeting Milwaukee. So I worked at home. I worked remotely, so I was really more of a contractor for real. I worked remotely from home for both of these comes companies, really going out doing technical assistance with businesses and understanding what the gaps were that why aren't we giving this money out? Like I had access to one of them was from fifty thousand to five million dollars in lending. That was my lending capacity personally, I can like give that out to businesses.
So I was like, oh, this is great.
It was very much so aligned with my vision and my mission, and I was able to sit in on the credit committees of these different companies. So when it came to like applying for loans and applying for some of these things, I knew exactly what they were looking for because I was sitting in there.
So I worked there for two years.
Who what type of clientele or clients to what you're seeing?
Primarily business? For Community Grein Investment CRF, it was business clients. So I was looking at bars, I was looking at pubs, I was looking at cleaning companies, I was looking at It was a full gamut. And then for community investments it was more so real estate base for real So.
You was on the inside the of the institution and you you knew what they were looking for to lend money. You used that when you left to get them to lend you money because you alreadyknew what they were looking for.
It didn't really work out that way. That was the idea.
But now I know how all of the groups worked the same, So yeah, I used that same tactic to get all of the rest of it.
What were they looking for, like, what made you attractive? Not you, I'm just saying, we'll make somebody attractive to somebody.
Honestly, it's a huge gap. So I thought that I would be given out a ton of money. But and I had access to the capitol, but I couldn't give it out what they were looking for. It was a disconnect. It's like our people are here and their money is here. And I felt like it was my duty to kind of like bridge that gap. But that gap so they were looking for honestly, pretty traditional.
Things, you know.
It's like reserves, some serve some you know may or may not do a startup, so you might have to have some income. Collateral is the biggest thing in our community. That was that's the biggest guy. We don't have collateral. If you think about history, a lot of businesses were funded because people owned real estate. Right you were able to get business loans because you can put your house up. Millennials, we I'm a millennium, you know, so that is a challenge.
That is a shift in the marketplace that I don't think has been identified yet. So we all of our people are like, yo, we don't.
Have any money. We don't have any money, We don't have any money.
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It's such an access to capital gap, which there is, but on the other side they're streaming, Oh, we have so much money and we can't deploy it. That's what happens every single time you talk to anyone in that industry, and that's what they're going to tell you.
All right, all right that So now we're going to go into the next seven. We're going to talk about like your journey into developing, like how you find a deal like all of.
The one O one on on the on the whole, Yeah, on the whole, on the whole deal.
Okay, do that next, Yeah, let's break it down then all right, all right, so now we now we're going to ask a few questions that I think people will be interested in as far as you know. One thing with ey Ls, we like we talk about different topics that nobody really knows. Is like, don't really have an education all this stuff. So as a real estate developer, right, so you you do the financial blueprint, but now you
actually have to develop it. But development costs a lot of money to scale these projects, right, so how like, how does that part of it work as far as the construction aspect of it and actually developed it?
Because in my mind I'm thinking of development.
Yeah, you're making the financial blueprint, but I'm like, you're not even seeing a physical output before you start or do you know, like what you want this space to look like going in?
Yeah? You create? You created it.
So the developer is the one that creates the vision in his mind. Very similar to a director of a movie. Right, Okay, Like they don't they don't. They're not the actor, they're not the they're not the scriptwriter oftentimes, but they bring it all to fruition and this is the way that it needs to go. So a developer, let's rewind a little bit real estate development is a business process that takes land and you put real estate on it.
So very simple. There go a little deeper.
So I'm a commercial real estate developer, so I'm pretty much doing that at just a larger scale. And there's different sections of it, right, So I guess let's say break it down into three phases. There's a pre development phase where you do the design and you get the financials in order and you talk through some of those things.
The second phase of the construction phase, to your point, that's when you go and you're actually building the project and you're managing the budget to make sure that this is on time and on budget, because if the cost of your development is more than what you anticipated, then when the recession hit, that's kind of what happened, Like you saw buildings that were halfway developed and people stepped away because there was not enough money to continue to
the project, complete the project. And then the last phase is operation. It's a pre development, construction, and operation. A developer pretty much runs that entire phase from beginning to end. So let's break them down. Predevelopment phase you have I typically start off with zoning and entitlement. It's like Okay, I have a piece of land here. How large is Let's say it's an acre of land. Okay, based on this acre, what is it zone?
For? What can I do here?
My base is typically multifamily, so it's like, okay, how many units can I put on here? Let's say you know an acre is forty three thousand square feet Depending on where you are, they based zoning off of Florida area ratio, So this thing called far. So let's say it's two times far, so you can put if it's an FAR two, you can put a eight six thousand
square foot building on this parcel. And then you reverse engineer how many units you can fit there, so eighty two thousand square feet depending on the unit side, if they're one in two bedrooms, you.
May be able to get ninety units. If they're you know, three.
Four bedrooms, you may be able to get sixty units. And then based on the program, you create a vision around what is attainable for the site. So I start with the zoning and it's like okay, yeah, what can I do? And then based on the zoning, I create a financial model and dig a little deeper. And then that's when I reach out to consultants to do some of the other work. It's like, hey, architects, I want to put seventy units right here?
Can I do that? What does that look like? You know? Can I do underground parking here? Can I?
Can I have surface parking? How many stars can I fit? And that kind of changes the iteration of that financial model that I was working on. Okay, let me change itself a little.
How long does that first that preprocess.
Take for you? No time for real at this point. A couple of hours hours, A couple of hours.
Wow.
So that's and then the third second, third one is the actual development right construction.
Second one is construction. So we're not even in construction yet.
So that's that's early, early, initial, just pre and then what you do is like okay, I think I'm onto something. And then you go get the site under control, so you reach out to the land own er. Is it available? Is it private? Is it public? Is it If it's public land? Sometime they have RFPs and that's what I was awarded with the forty one million. I was awarded that land to now develop.
It by the state or the city.
That was city owned, but sometimes it's state owned. Sometimes it's city, sometime it's county.
It varies.
So that was public, that's a public private partnership in that way. But sometimes it's private. So when it's private land, that's when you it's a little more difficult. Ah. Yeah, it's a little more difficult because people value their land the way that they value their land. It's no different from a property. If you own a home, you may feel like your home is worth five hundred thousand dollars. The appraisal may say your home is worth two hundred
or one hundred. So when you go to that individual and say, hey, this is my plan for this site, y'all have to have some level of common ground to make sure that this works because if they want five times your number, it's not feasible you move on that vision can't come to fruition because this is not a roadblock. And then once once you then okay, yeah, I think this will work around this price, I'll give you X for it.
You want X fo it? Okay. What's the timing in DC?
I mean typically you gotta have a thirty day close, sixty day close, like a quick no contingencies, no nothing. In Wisconsin, I could you know sometime do a year and a half without having to close on the financing. And by close, I mean actually pay for the land. You pay for the land typically when your financial at construction start. So when you close on all your finances,
I got every all my ducks in the row. It all comes to the table at the same time, and it goes out to the various parties, one of those parties being the land owner. They could walk away. I now purchase it. I now can start construction, which is now phase two.
So when you're in that phase and you try to get the land, what's the bidding process?
Right? So you wore rewarded, awarded, all warded to land, what kind of explained.
What that means.
But what's the process of bidding for it?
Yep too. So on the private side, no process. It's just one to one. Can I buy this from you? Or no?
And I've been told no because of my age and my color before, to be honest. But on the public side, they typically put out a list of priorities that they want. The most recent one, my eighty nine unit, was a public public partnership and they just wanted to redevelopment of a blighted site. It was half a mile away from where I was raised, and I wanted to develop it, so I put eighty nine units before the bahausand in my hood, that's what I did, and they agree with
my plan. It wasn't very competitive and that was that. But there are other ones like the one in Madison, and I just won. It was very, very competitive. They had multiple rounds of RFPs. What's the RFP again, request for a proposal. So that's when the city says, hey, these these are our priorities for this site.
We own in site. We don't want to own the site.
Cities often don't want to own sites because they want to benefit from the tax revenue from it. It's not in their best interest to pay the upkeep. It's a lot of risk associated with owning land, so cities often try to partner and sell and you do things like that. So that this priority specifically, they wanted a grocery store. The site right next door is a pick and Save Roundings was just acquired by Kroger and they're shutting that Picking Saved down. So now this area is about to
be a food desert. So the city was like, okay, in order for us to preserve some level of grocery in this area, we need to put out an RFP. So that was their number one priority or a grocery store. Second was affordable housing and some level of housing and density. So I put together the best plan to bring that grocery store in the quickest amount of time.
So, all right, they need a grocery store. They are identified. They need a grocery store. While they just youach out to the grocery stores directly, why then they developer?
They did.
Grocery stores often don't develop their own land either, they least, you know, so a developer developer. A developer manages that process. Businesses don't typically manage that process. You know, if you think about Apple, Apple isn't going to like build their own headquarters. They're going to hire some consultants or a developer to build it for them. So that's an RFP
can be in that way too. So that said, it's of interest for them to align themselves with a developer who has the capacity to do this because it's not something that just easily can be done, got it.
They can't just do it.
So phase two, the construction phase, can talk about that. Yeah, construction, So each each phase is a little less risky. So pre development phase is a ton of risk. I rewind a little bit, then I'll go into it. It's a ton of risk because you're paying a ton of consultants to do work. You're doing environmental assessments phase one, in the phase two ten that could be ten thousand dollars between the two. Environmental ass that when they checking the
dirt to see and all that. Well, yeah, so environmental that's one where they're seeing if it's contaminated. Has it been uh, you know, was this a gas station historically?
Is this up to code?
Because you don't want those soils to rise and people get sick and die and all that stuff. So you pay for environmental consultants. You pay for civil consultants which put together the design of the building and make sure this is secure. Okay, architects design it, but the civil engineers are saying this will be sturdy for X amount of time, we won't have settlement, et cetera. And then you hire geotechnical consultants to test the soil and to see is the soil okay, you know, stuff like that.
So the soil is more so like for settlement, civil is self for structure and longevity and things like that. So all of those people you've got to hire prior to getting to construction. Who's that the developer is so yeah great, quest walk is uh yeah, but you can you can get once you have a plan together, you can get loans.
In theory.
They can get loans. We can't get loans. Really, they can get loans. So I partner with the people that can get the loans and try to I'll go into that in a second. But you pay for all of these consultants, even architects. All the architectural designs are pretty renderings and all that slice. Yeah, you know, that's a couple hundred thousand easy.
So before you get to construction, are any of these RFPs or like, dude, does it ever come into play with the was it MWB minority women business? Is it? Because are they like do they have to have a certain amount of developments that are developed by minority developers?
Is that case?
Minority developers is not a thing.
It's not a thing.
It's not a minority contractors is a thing. Minority developers is not a thing. So I have to in my development counterparts. Yeah, that as I'm an anomaly for real. So I have to hire minority women veter and my colleagues have to do the same. My counterparts do same. We have to hire them the construction workers. Make sure that all of the people that are part of this team may be twenty.
Of the total.
The money that is allocated to the budget has to go towards these groups. But there's no structure for me, as a developer and being black, to benefit from that.
Why not that's where the most money is.
Has it ever been proposed or no, I've never heard of it. I'm sure it has. Historic black developers aren't a thing, not a lot of them. No, it's not a thing because historically banks. We all know about red lining. We all know about that. There's a book called The Color of Law. Talk about this before, but for people that don't know, color a law documented the government's effect
on communities and the intentionality of segregation. So what they did was if a white developer even was developing something that allowed a black person to live in it, HUD would not ensure it, so the bank would not give along. So that was for a white developer. So imagine a black developer trying to develop something for black people. It
wasn't possible. So the Marrion Berrys of the world, and just like H. J. Russell in Atlanta, the mayor of Atlanta, the mayor of d C reached out and used their political connections to bring these two people up H J. Russell in Atlanta down peoples in d C in order to create an economic engine in our community that allow for growth in a way that does not exist. So again that that's just not a thing at all, and hopefully it can become a thing. But there's not enough
black developers. I mean, I'm at conferences all the time. I go to real estate meet ups and everything like that. But oftentimes it's like most folks are investors because it's all we know. Most of the developers I know aren't. They don't look like me. Sout out to keV Kevin noule bro mind. He's killing it in Milwaukee right now, absolutely killing it. He's a black developer that is doing his thing. A couple of folks out here in DC as well. Dr McKinney, I really respect Don Peeble's son
is actually doing development out of DC as well. So there's some black developers like bubbling up.
But yeah, it's just not.
How important is political political collections connections.
Depends on where you are. I was saying Wisconsin not as much. Wisconsin is a very objective state. If you are doing if you are checking these boxes, you can move forward in a place. Like other places, it's not that objective. It's a little more subjective. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I think we were talking about the construction part real quick. So you start off trying to pre development risk. You pay for all of these consultants a couple hundred thousand,
and then at the closing table. Benefit of getting to the closing table is that all that risk is wiped away, so it's all a part of development budget. Although you're paying for it before it happens. You get refunded once all your money comes in, So the three hundred thousand that you had out, the million dollars that you had out, all comes back right there. So that's a great day.
And then what happens in a construction phase. You have to mitigate that risk because you know people may not come to work, or the cost of something may be more expensive, or the design wasn't you have to change the design up and things like that, So you have to look out for all of those things before you get under construction, because when that construction budget gets blown up, it's a real thing and the first thing that goes at that point is your developer fee.
We have to pay for that.
So we got to mitigate that risk because you can get a project done and not make nothing to that point.
My first project, sixty.
Unit fortyblehusand development twelve points six million dollars. I made thirty thousand dollars on Wow, three and a half years worth of work. I made thirty thousand dollars.
That was it.
What kind of insurance do you have to have to be protected.
During construction just as a development I'm like anything you said, like, you're on the hook, right, So I guess you don't want to have to always come out of your pocket if something happens to risky tech.
So there's no insurance.
No, it's not a thing now, it's just a risky tech. So that deal was twelve and a half million. My original development partner. So this is my first project, this one I got in twenty sixteen. My original development partners were fully integrated firms, so they did they did development, construction, and property management.
They did it all.
So I'm like, okay, bet let me partner with these guys, let me learn from their different entities. It's all one stop, and then we're gonna do it.
Moving forward.
Once we got the award, their board wasn't as comfortable with the original terms we agree to. So now you know based on so you have to make guarantees. You make financial guarantees for construction. I guarantee that this will be built, even though on my own die, and you have to spread the risk across a development profile and share that with partners. If they're making all the guarantees, they're taking all the money. So that's why we get
boxed out too. Black folks typically don't have the capital to say, yeah, we can't make guarantee.
Yeah I have.
But yeah, I'm like you said that because I have a friend who a client, well, who's a developer in New York.
He's black.
He always tells me about these personal guarantees that he has to put up of like all this money and properties. Like whenever time they're doing a deal, and it's like him and his partner, they gotta do these personal lines of guarantees and all that stuff.
Personal guarantee, personal guarantee.
And if you don't have the bare minimum for the projects that I'm working on, you need a million dollars of liquidity like cash and five million dollars in networks to start the conversation. That's going to eliminate a lot of us. That's why you don't see black developers. That's the primary reason why you don't see black developers because you can't get a game, and then when you start
to you get raped. It's like, okay, well you got to idea, you got a concept I want, you can get teen and then we just get used as brokers to find sites and so they can make more money. But I wasn't on that.
I'm not on that.
So I get the majority of my fees at this point, at least fifty one percent. I'm gonna get standing on it.
On that.
That's not so you say, I'm partnerships. So so you partner with a lot of people, Yeah, I have to so for a young cat or you're not even young cat, anybody just in general, because like you said, it's a lot of barriers to get in. Is that the best way to go about it is to kind of find somebody already that's successful and kind of work with them.
Yeah, I mean I get reached out to you all the time. I definitely I want to support everybody, but realistically I just can't.
It's capacity think.
So that said, I think the best way is to create value. You have to create value. If you're not creating value, then you're just there if you want to with me, just like if I want to work with them, is it worth my time to work with you?
Not?
If you bring anything to bring it, I can do it on my own.
I tell people that all the time, you gotta it gotta be mutual, and it can't because that's more of a charity thing, right, It's like you through so much chat as.
The time and a place for that.
Yeah, you know, mentorship, charity. It's not a business partnership. Business partnership has it doesn't have to be equal, but you have to bring something, got to bring some value.
Yeah.
So if you can create value in real estate the way that I did it, I created the financial model, I created the vision, and I got the land in the contract. That's what that was my control. So if I pitched it to anybody, they can't just go get this land. I already got it so now it's like I have leverage. So if you, as a developer want to or aspiring developer want to take that strategy, go get some land on the contract, put a financial plan.
That makes sense. I talked about language earlier. Showed me the language. This is the language that we speak right here. When you start speaking that language, we can partner with no problem.
The last part that that property management piece. Do you have your own or you still partner with somebody.
Most of my development partners out of their own shops. I don't have my own.
It only makes sense when you have some of the units. You gotta scale. It's a scale thing. So when I get to, you know, a couple of thousand units, I probably start one.
But right now now, all right, So in the last second, we're gonna talk about scaling.
We're always gonna talk about a few other businesses that you got in the in the d m V, since we're in the d m V, so multiple streams of income for sure. All right, So in the last seme we're gonna talk about a few things. But first, what's talk about scaling Because obviously you've you've come a long way, but you're still young. So what's your what's your what's your vision, what's your plan, what's your what's your goals as far as scaling and moving forward into this new decade.
Yeah, that's real.
I mean, at the end of the day, I'm an entrepreneur, so I think my profession is a real estate developer, but I'm really an entrepreneur. So scaling, I'm open to different concepts. One being uh said, I wasn't gonna say, but working on the real estate crowdfunding platform.
I think that'll be my next big endeavor. That's probably lost early next year, So that's that's a goal, and that's a tech platform.
So I plan to leverage tech to crowdfund money in real estate and then pour it back in our community in a way that doesn't currently exist. There's an access to capital challenge, and this is the way that I'm gonna fix it.
Right.
So it's like that gap that you were saying that was there, Yeah, you would now season it dope.
Yeah, So that's to go.
That's part of it. Scaling specifically for real enterprises. My development company, we keep doing affordable housing primarily.
That's my thing.
I think it's a we need we need it everywhere and it'll always be a thing. So if I could do one or two deals in Wisconsin here, I think that's cool for now, and then working on some stuff in DC.
Working on a.
Platform, I guess not a platform, but it's an affordable housing initiative with a professor at the Georgetown Law called gay Bridge. So what we're doing is trying to identify five sites for us to develop in DC, Baltimore, and Philly. So for me, I think next year I'm going to be targeting, you know, four to five sites.
In those areas.
I have one in DC right now that I'm working on in Southwest DC one hundred and forty units or so, probably close to eighty million dollar development about twenty five thousand square feet.
Are you bringing anybody with you as far as like a mentor or apprentice along the journey so they can.
See what this is like?
Yes or no, I'm mentored a ton of Milwaukee has probably the most black developers in the country.
Wow, it's crazy. So I got some I got a OG.
And then I got some young homies that are coming up to But in DC, I'm actually launching a platform or launching keeps saying platform launching an educational type of deal for a development program, development training program, and I'm actually gonna do it in partnership, probably with Georgetown, so that all launch next year as well. So I'm called that reinvest And you you have a you have a bar lounge in DC? Yeah, I saw on a on a bar lounge in DC?
What's that?
What's what's the deal with that?
It's called the K's Bird open that, Like I said, I think I mentioned it earlier, like I used to fund bars and pubs and things like that, so I knew the finance of it. So I'm like, Oh, came across an opportunity a friend of mine, best friend in Milwaukee. He's a developer too, but he owns a spot in Milwaukee, so he was looking at opening one in DC. Got introduced to a broker. Broker reached out. I walked a
site for him. It was first and Adams marking im like I ain't really feeling this, you shouldn't do it. I told him he shouldn't do it because he wanted to do it at first. Then identify the side in DuPont Circle, predominantly white area in DC, and I was like, oh, this would beat dope, Like it was a cool opportunity. So told him about it. Yo, I think I want to do this. You down, He had some things going on in Milwaukee that it needs to straighten out. He
was like, YO, just take it around with it. So I said, bet went out created an equity pool because I practiced what I preached, Like, I literally am all about black wealth. That's that's who I am. I know I'm gonna be straight on the development side. I'm not worried about my finances. But if I can create opportunities for ownership for my people, I think I'm living in my purpose. So created an equity pool, brought in a bunch of owners.
Equity pool just a bunch of people that just pulled their money together.
Yeah.
So I actually I did fifty percent finance and a fifty percent like sweat equity. So if you wanted to come in and like be the chef or you know, come in and run the bar, come in and run events, I allowed.
I kind of created on opportunity for that too.
So if you didn't have money, work work your way.
Yeah, pretty much. So that was you know, I have capacity constraints. I'm a full time developer. I run a whole enterprise. I just couldn't do it on my.
Own anyway, but I thought that this would be the best way.
So one hundred percent of black owned, operated, staff, and finance all by us. It's been it's been a very good learning experience. You know, it comes, it's been a roller coaster ride. But the name of the restaurant, where'd you get from one A space? I'm a sure a black woman. So honestly, bus Boys and Poets is a prominent place in DC. So like, all that name is dope and it's a nod to Langston Hughes. So I was like, h right, I'm like who inspired me? My
Angelou was that person. So I was like, okay, you know, how can I think through your name? So I ended up landing on the cage Bird. Twenty sixteen, I saw My Angelou's documentary and Still Our Rise. It was a great documentary, and it was the first time I always knew that I was living black history. It was the first time I was able to like identify it in somebody else, like yo, I saw this whole process. She was a woman, she was molested, she was silent, she
didn't started speaking. She became a poet.
She was.
She was everything under the son you could think of, you know, good things, bad things, et cetera. Do the research, you can find it. But she was a true and actual person. So I want to create a space that people could live and be Black history within the.
So for sure, for sure.
And I think it's fitting because d C has so much rich history, rich Black history, rich every history. I mean, this is the capital of America. But we can't talk about America without the contributions of African Americans.
We can't talk about Washington see without the contributions of Black Americas.
And that's why they the museum. I haven't got a chance to go to the museum. Have you going there yet?
Yeah, I've been a few times, being there one day for sure.
A fact. That's a fact. That's a fact.
I'm standing on it.
That's a fact. That's a fact.
Man. So yeah, congratulations.
Man.
It is very inspiring, especially.
A lot of times, like we doing the conversation, we might have forgot that you're only thirty one years old.
I'm saying not that I'm far from Troy's for I'm not far.
I'm not that far able, that's not all that.
But but nah Man.
Congratulations, and it's great to see you know, to see people because a lot of times we highlight things that are negative, we got to highlight positive.
Yeah.
I'm not the type. I don't look for attention. That's not really my thing, Like actually don't care for it. People probably don't believe that, but uh, it was some in me that said it would be a the service to my community for not giving the knowledge that I have.
So I had to like accept it.
No, it's the greatest gift that you can give. It's inspiration. And like I said, I was telling you off camera, you never know who's listening. And like the kid that was like, oh, I could be a real estate developer, not just an investor and not just.
Like and now exactly you know it exists.
I could be a civil engineer.
Like oh, that's so much.
It's so much money in real estate in a sense. Yeah, And it's like it's like how you how you looked at Dawn. People's like there might be somebody looking at you just like that. But what I'm saying so it's like, but that's how that's how life is so crazy and you don't even realize it. And it's like you inspiring somebody, and it's like, now they might inspire somebody off of what you exactly exactly.
But it shouts out to y'all for having a platform to do.
So you know what I'm saying this is this is much important for us, for our community and to be able to dig into these numbers in a way that doesn't exist.
You're not going to be able to google. The fact some of these numbers that.
I said today, I break down the restaurant business too, if y'all want me to, Part two, Part two, part.
So you can't go goot the stuff. So appreciate y'all, Na, thank you man.
So how can people contact you any initiatives that you want to make them aware of?
Social media and all that stuff?
B Underscore? Are you ellie? That's my Instagram handle b Rule. Everybody called me that I was branded. There's a ton of brand that's growing up. Sports name y'all. Yeah, I got that, a lot real enterprises. The name of development company Cage Bird is restaurant bar DuPont and I got it. I got a new thing called reinvest coming out soon.
So just a dope, dope Troy house Keeping item.
Yeah, yeah, shout out everybody on patreon dot com every time we come on and seeing that we get new members. So I just want to give a quick shout out and recognition to see Manual Ralphael, ariel Mark and Gregory shout out to y'all for joining us on Patreon, UH tier four and five members. You know that you have access to e y L University out online school and it's growing.
Man.
We have a lot of webinars up there, a lot of uh great content we have from tax taxes to what else.
Did we have on there?
Everything mobile, mobile notary.
We had Sabine talking about trademarking, multiple students and income, how to start a podcast, two three k loan class everything everything you can think of, and every week is three three classes added to the curriculum.
So it's growing.
It's a growing university and the merchan is out too. So as you can see, has that e y L University hood gear.
Man, I got you, you got you, got you.
I'm still rocking assets of a liability because that's all you know. I'll go to sloping right. Having more assets to pay for liabilities is a way to financial freedom. So keep supporting that and keep tuning in man, the podcast is growing, our streams income have grown.
We come up with new ideas and new lessons.
Man.
This was like a history lesson and a business lesson and one man.
Yeah for sure, b Rule, thank you.
I appreciate it.
On motivation purposes only the stream chaser this Bill Man for sure, for sure Atlanta, don't forget Atlanta.
January twenty fifth.
January twenty sixth, we released information on that soon when we come into town for sure, and who knows, Brandon might.
Pop up, might put upful love.
The book tip of this week.
Is thinking gro Rich a black choice but Dennis kim Bro.
Thank you guys for rocking with us. We'll see you next week.
Peace, Peace, perfect