EYL #31 Higher Learning

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All right, guys, welcome, I'm back Episode thirty one.

Ey L thirty one Episode thirty.

One in the earlier age of podcasts. So today's a special special episode for us for a few different reasons. It's the first episode that we've had two guests. We're breaking new boundaries and we're going to talk about a lot of things that we haven't talked about yet. But before we go into the episode, August twenty second, we are coming to Houston, Texas to do our Meet and Greet networking event. You know, we've we've done in three

And I think there's like a misconception, like people think like we're going to be having a seminar.

Not a seminar.

It's for people to meet and greet with each other.

Because even when we leave that city that we're in, like the relationships that you've developed at that meet and greet will still be there.

The meet and greet is a vibe within itself. It's a whole vibe. It's not a seminar. It's it's a way, as I said, the interact, but it's it's dope because people come and then they interact with us, and then we bring some of our guests with us. We're definitely gonna bring some guests with us and they talk to them and then they get some advice, and then they network with each other like a episode. It's like a party with productive tendencies, you know what I mean. There's

Right now is the time where, yeah, college is back in session again. Yeah for sure, the fall semester has begun.

Yeah for sure, for sure time, that's a fact. So they both work at Jersey City University. Lenny is a business professor and Jeff is a director of student leadership. Jeff used to be a professor as well. But they're not like your typical professors or like college administrators.

Like the type of professors. I wish.

It's a little different. So they put a different swag on it. And you know, they they've did pretty major. They've been all over. They've been featured on CBS, Fox, Boston, Globe, Ebony, Black, Enterprise, Hot onety seven, They've done ten X talk, So you know, they have an interesting outlook on education. They take a different approach on education. We're gonna talk about education and a few other different topics. But first and foremost, thank you guys for joining us.

Welcome fellas, appreciate it, Thank y'all.

Man, appreciate y'all.

Yeahah for sure. So we jump right into it. So you guys are college professors, right, and you know, college is something that is very it's a hot topic, and it's it's something that triggers a lot of emotions in people, especially nowadays. It's like anytime we put a post on Instagram about college, we get a thousand comments and people saying like it's a scam, no waste your money, and other people saying all kinds of stuff. Right, So I'm just gonna jump I'll just jump right into it. Is

I mean I think that college, I mean it's not needed. It's that means something that you can do, It's something that's possible. I think it should be an option, right. I don't think it should be forced upon that people have to go to college. I know, I will say there's other ways of being successful and going to certain fields that college is not needed as much as it was.

Five years ago.

But some things you do need, like if you want to be a lawyer or a doctor, or you're in a stem fields like college can be very productive. But then there's some other majors where honestly you can you can learn on YouTube, or you can learn by reading books, or you can learn by just doing so. I don't think it has to be a necessary thing to go to college, but I do think it should still be an option.

Yeah.

I think also one of the biggest things about college are the networks and the relationships that are made.

So it's very far and.

Few in between that you get to sit in a room with a doctor, a future lawyer, a future dentist, a future teacher and have conversations that are not about your fields of study.

And because we all know that.

Once we get into our you know, our real lives after college, it starts to become a little bit closer in the bubble where you're just dealing with people who are who have similar interests. So college, for that particular space, there's not many other places that create that type of environment, and academically there are some fields that do.

Still need it.

But you know, I think that these institutions, a lot of them are just not created for the benefit of the students. I mean, there are a number of colleges and universities that are doing that work, but I think there are a lot that are scamming people, and I think there are a lot that are not doing the work.

It used to be looked at as a badge into middle class life, but if you had to have that piece of paper, if you wanted to get a good job, get a house, Like that's going away with Like what anyone was just saying is like some things we're just going to learn on the fly.

Like we say this all the time.

We have no training in broadcasting, but we're doing a podcast, right, Like we're learning these things as we go. And I think, like, yes, there are options that you can do outside of going to school, but if they're our careers like lawyers and doctors, like you said, then yeah, it's mandatory.

Man, I'm a college guy.

Right, Like we had to do it an education, But like I said before, like I feel like we could. I could have done it out of high school had given the proper training rather than seven years of dedication to that career.

You know what I mean.

I think what college does is we live in a society where image is very important, right, So what college does is that it gives you a badge to say, Okay, I have a certain level of success already built in because I've completed my degree, so now I can at least speak to you on an intelligent level when I can be taken seriously, which not is not always the case, right, because there's plenty of people that graduated from what Kanye s people with Kanye said, people graduate from college will

So this is for parents and people got in students for college. So before I was a professor, I used to work in a mission. So the most important part when talking to parents or talking to students is when you're choosing a school, especially when it comes to majors. Your major should be a top five major within that school. What I mean by that is top five with enrollment and also they have placement for companies that deal exactly

What's going to be in demand.

Not what I always say, this mentality of not five minutes from now, start taking five years from now right. So when you're making that decision, what does a communications degree look.

Like five years from now? Right? What does that feel looks like, look like? Is even going to be around photography?

Is that's something that you really have to go to school for when you can potentially learn that, you know? So that's that's kind of the key when picking your majors is making sure that the school provides the resources but can also place you at the job, but it also is in demand.

But in the next few years.

I couldn't agree more man Like a lot of times, especially in our community, when our kids think about college, the first thing they think about is the athletics, right, Like I want to go to do or I want.

To go in North Carolina, I want to go to Yukon right.

And when you get there, if you're not there on athletics, it's like, well, I want to study communications. Well that's not one of those majors that is one of the best things at that school.

So like you should be looking past just like yo, I'm alumni and I.

Go to that school for the sports, right if it means, it doesn't mean as much when you come out of Yukon with a communication de gree.

I have a communication degree.

You know what I'm saying.

But I want to go back to what you said.

I don't go back to what you said because you said that it doesn't matter, And in my head, I'm like, yeah, it doesn't matter if you're on an athletic scholarship. If it matters to a guy like me who was like, I'm studying physical therapy and I don't want to be a physical therapist, right and I've paid thirty thousand dollars for four years, It's like this matters a lot, right,

Like and what's gonna happen.

We talk about this all the time, and Jeff in particular use this analogy of you know, and everything else you buy something, you challenge to make sure that the service that they're providing is correct, right. And I feel like people are not challenging some of these schools when

Or you're gonna say I ordered steak.

And many times students are paying all this money for a school and then not providing the services that they're promise and they're not challenging the school right or asking questions before. And I don't know, maybe it's because again you're not physically handling that money over and you think, I, oh, I'll just get a job and I paid off later, But I think it should really treat it like everything else you purchase.

That that's a problem especially in our community, man, like we don't know how to advocate for the things we want. Like I've seen it over and over with parents not being able to advocate for the kids. But then the kids grow up and they don't know how to advocate. So if they all being mistreated a school and the things are not people about it, it's like.

Who do I ask? How do you challenge the system? Because I mean that's like going up against that system. How do you challenge?

So I don't want to say, like challenge the system. It's simple things.

So if there's like a college fair at your school, like every school, typically at high school, they bring in college representatives, you know, instead of asking questions, like students get these questions from guidance counselors and some people. I don't know where they get these questions from, like what's the percentage of student success at your school? Like that's not the question you'ld be asking you, she'd be asking

Like whatever?

How does how? What are the tools at your school to get me there? But also is this major a popular major at your school? Can I talk to somebody at the institution the career center and find out how many people you placed at a.

Job in the last three to four years at some point?

And you know, like those type of questions need to be asked, and unfortunately we don't. We don't provide those resources, them tools enough, And that's why we create a platform that we create. That's part of the things that we deal with to let students know, like you do have a voice number one and number two to ask those type of questions before spending all of this money.

CF I wanted to ask you a question. We spoke of CAM about the hitting curriculum.

Yeah, so the idea, so it kind of goes into the aspect that the students don't know who to ask, so that there is that problem I don't know where to go, and the institutions are not doing the job properly. A lot of institutions are not doing the job properly and creating a space for students to under understand things like acronyms that students don't know. So I don't know what FASSA might stand for, and that's talking about financial aid. If you don't know what that means, then you're out

Sounds, so you don't know what these things are.

So I think it's just essential for And this is where I think the big problem is is that there are institutions that are about creating careers for.

People who want to be educators.

So they want to go up the ladder and become vice presidents and become deans and become provosts and presidents of institutions without caring about the students. So then they create these platforms and they create these spaces where the students cannot succeed.

So I'm not I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

There are academic institutions that are out there primarily just to build careers and primarily just to make money. The proper institutions that are doing the work are the ones that say we are going to make sure that you know who to speak to and with the hidden curriculums that just this means that there are things that are

So to really touch on the comments that we were just saying.

One of the things that I can tell all people who are sending any of their students to college or are going back to school themselves, is that you have to really find particular individuals on your campus. I can't stress the I can't stress it enough that you have to get involved, and I means you have to find somebody who's already doing the work, and make sure you

Now we were talking off camera too, and it's difficult because I think my experience is a little jaded because I was I played basketball, so when I went to school, I got I was on athletic scholarship. So if anybody's not familiar athletes, it's different, especially at a Division one school. So when I got to campus, you know, we had our own study hall just for the athletes. We had

First you sign up with Trill or not Trill, but you know to fully equip yourself. It takes a lot. And this is where we have to really invest. We were just talking about that off camera too, about how much money you place on a college degree, whether you're going there for free or you're paying full tuition. There's no I mean, outside of a house, there's no larger

But then even before that, you.

Want to know how is the house, how you know, how is it built, what was What do I have to do to fix this space?

What do I have to do to.

Make sure that my family if I want to start a family, goes in here. It can't just be let me just show up, pull up and figure out the rest investment? Right, And so what people have to do is is really start to invest in a child and a student's education before they even get in there and find the programs because colleges and universities some of them will do it, but a lot of them will not.

There's a DJ at that time, you know, and you're.

Sitting here thinking like, man, I don't even know what registraw is. And I remember, like as a college student, I was like, is it register? And they're like, no, it's registrar And I'm like, why what does that even mean?

Right when you're registering for class?

Correct, when you're registering for class.

So there are these simple little things that that students aren't prepared for. And so for me, I just think that you have to invest in the same way that you would invest in a house, the same way that you wouldn't buy a car without making every possible detail before it.

You have to do the same.

And I think the key is invest past financials because a lot of people always talk about college and investing and it's only the financial piece when we're saying about the investment, saying due to research as well and understand where college is going, what colleges are doing a different degrees, because it can be really beneficial for you.

And it's also very important. I think what Jeff said as far as to find people on campus that know the deal and because that's that helped me out a lot. As far as like when I first got there, I had somebody shout out to my mansion. Well, he's from the Bronx and he was a junior when I was a freshman. He was on the team and he was seasoned.

Have program they do and then the other thing before even talked about what you want. The mentors just don't get too caught up on titles as well. Right, looking for somebody with a leadership title to be a mentor. There's just people on campus that literally run the campus but don't have any fancy title.

There could be a person that works.

In a book store, right everybody, and they've been there for twenty years, so they know exactly what books to get, they know exactly where to go, there's.

The person who's cleaning up the student union building.

They're know, hey, listen, you know you need to join this club, or hey, you know you need to talk to Jeff, because Jeff knows who everybody is. And so that's where, you know, we always talk about the difference of what a mentor means. So we tell people, number one, you need a digital mentor. And the digital mentor is somebody that is online, that has an online presence at that institution or otherwise that you know, you can just

Traditional sense of leadership.

But then here's this person that's also maybe a little bit younger than I am that I can give them information and then they give me back some information.

And then like your boy that you said at your school, be what we call a peer mentor right right, somebody that's in that same age range, same age bracket doing this, you know, the same things that you're doing, and that's a fellow peer of yours that can really help you out.

I'm boring, yeah for sure. All right. So now we're going to go into the next seven. We're gonna talk about the financials, and we're also going to talk about chill and natural so yeah, yes, I love that part. All right. So now we're going to talk about the number one thing when it comes to school is how to pay for it? Right, money, money.

As we said, man, it's the it's the biggest financial decision that they're going to make. And they have, especially high school sudents, they got about three years and that's you're making that decision at eighteen. Like a lot of people won't get approved to get a loan for a house, they probably won't. They may not get approved to get a loan for a card, but they will get approved.

Student loan is real and something like I said once again, I was fortunate not to have to a loan because I had a scholarship, but I have brothers and sister and they both have to I think they're both still paying on it. I'm still playing myself. They're both older than me. But student loans is real. Financial ladi is definitely real. All that is real.

So you can't escape it. No, no, no filing for bankrupcy on doing a loan.

Oh they're gonna want their money, thank you, so so, But like, what's what's what's some hacks that parents because a lot of parents listen to our podcasts and you know, might have children in college or children getting ready to go to college. What's some hacks that that and even children or young adults can use to minimize the cost of college.

One of the big hacks for high school students is taking college courses while you're in high school. Now, some high schools and some districts provide that, and they're called like articulation agreements, another fancy words, another fancy higher edward, but their call articulation or dual agreements or partnerships where a lot of community colleges now and some four year

So that's something to.

We look at in your in your area, your region, your district, especially within the community colleges, your kids can take some of those level one hundred courses at a lower rate.

How do you how do you get going on campus to do that? You can go on campus, so you can call.

What you can do is you can call most colleges have what they call like a pre college program, pre summer program, summer academies, and look inside of some of those programs, those summer camps and maybe don't send your kid to maybe a sports camp in the town. You send them to a business academy camp at like let's say at Pace University, and then they can potentially get credits for class while they're at that camp. So that's

Yeah, that's a good word.

I know.

I think another thing too is to just be honest about going to community colleges.

So community colleges.

Are way less expensive than they are than for your institutions are. And so if your student is not fully prepared because they just don't know.

I mean, at eighteen, you just may not know.

And at eighteen, thought I was going to be a high school basketball coach, teaching English classes in my old high school, and that's what I thought I was going to do. And I went into college thinking that that was the plan. And I realized that I didn't want to do that at all about two years into the game, and so I had I don't know if community college was particularly for me, but I'm paying. I paid for those two years, and I paid a lot of money

I mean, Harvard is giving.

Away full scholarships to students who excel at a community college, as are so many other excellent institutions, So you know, I think that's one that's another way to minimize some

And then for those people, I mean, we both did it. We both donated and created our own scholarships. I created one out of community college, created one out of high school. And for those people that are watching that don't know how to give back money, you can call the foundations and advancement and alumni offices at these colleges and do a two hundred and fifty dollars scholarship or a five

That's not true. Every school is different.

So for example, in New Jersey where I live, there's two things that I want to kind of put out there.

There's two things in New Jersey.

Let's say you have twelve credits in the two point zero you can transfer into most four year state schools in New Jersey. Excise me two point five into most state schools in New Jersey. New Jersey also has another program, and most states do have programs like this called NJ Stars where a student maybe didn't do particularly well in their SATs, but they're in the top twenty percent of the top ten percent of their class. And if you're in the top ten percent of your class, you go

Yeah, you might be.

Your top twenty percent might be different from another high school, so you might not get as much money as far as scholarships, So take advantage of the scholarships that you do have, maybe at that community college, and then go on and then potentially transfer and get scholarships as well.

So it's just transferred scholarships to as you're.

Talking, I'm listening because we do this this project with the kids who are going into college. Like even saying associate's degree, they like have no idea. So that's traditionally fifty six credits, right, and then obviously a bachelor is when you finish traditionally one hundred and twenty credits of school.

That might take for four or five years, hopefully because it's going to close you bright and you don't.

But and on top of that, you know, after a certain amount of credits, after I think one hundred and sixty, I want to say, you run out of financial aid. Yeah, it's important, continue to go to school. They'll let you go to school, they don't care. But your financial weight can you can exhaust your financial weight?

That's important.

And I was going to say, like, in addition to that, like a lot, there's a misconception with community college, like you said, like after those two years you transfer to a four year school, Like when you graduate and you go into your career, nobody's looking at like, yo, what junior you transfer from community college? And then New York State has now like in the past two years they started the Excelsi your program. So State School is also a good thing. Right, if it's a.

Least, it's less than if you went to a private school.

Right.

So, if you go to state school and you live in New York and you know your parents make under a certain amount of money, you can have I think room and board for free, and tuition's blower not well, So that's another option. If community college is like, it's not something you want to do, go to your local state school if you live in New York, and then I think the only recommend the requirement is that you have to work in the state four years after you or however long.

Yeah, a lot of schools are doing.

You know, if your parents make seventy thousand hours, your household income is seventy thousand and knowledge you go to school for free. That's something that's happened in New Jersey where all the community colleges will be free start in September. These are again, these are the type of programs that you should know. But most importantly, you just brought up a really good point. Public understand what a public college is and a private college. Right, nine times out of ten,

That's important.

Yeah, because I actually did a podcast before and somebody asked me that question, and I was saying that nobody kids like, especially if you plan on getting a degree outside of the other first degree. So like you if you know you're going to get a four year degree and you go into a two year school, or if you know you're going to get a master's degree, right, they only care about the last degree that you have, truth and that school that you went to. So like

That's my story in itself.

Right, I stayed home, I went to school locally, right, But what I did during that time was I was able to get experience. Whereas somebody who comes out of school and is looking for experience, I already have four years on you.

So sometimes when.

You go to a career or job, it's like, yeah, you have this, but do you have the experience? Like I'm doing that as I'm going to school and obviously I don't have to pay for room and board or anything like that.

So it helped in that way.

Yeah, and also look at another point by experience. Also look at the career centers within the college. I know, in my junior year, my job, my internship was also kind of as credits, so it could be considered like a co op program. So your class can actually eliminate I mean, your job can actually eliminate you taking a certain class because the work that you're doing, the experience

So, Jeff, if you have an interesting story about J Cole.

Yeah, so you know, this is the thing about college. So this kind of goes into this conversation about how to find money and how to be more successful in it. So I went to Saint John's University and I went to school with J. Cole, and you know, I was president of our Black student union which was called Harayah, and at that time we were the largest organization. They had a massive budget, over one hundred thousand dollars. And what we were able to do was I became president

And that's the thing. School's really expensive.

But I'm going to find out how do I become a resident assistant. And a resident assistant is when you're in charge of a residence floor and you're in charge of a dorm floor, they pay for your housing that I did not pay for housing for three years of my college career. And when you get into those spaces, I was an orientation leader, which were the people who introduced the people when they came to college. I got paid for that. So that's where you find the money.

You said something interesting, you said that Jay Cole, being the president of the Black student Union, he was in a unique position because he booked concerts. So then that opened up for them.

Yeah, I was. It was fascinating.

I mean I remember, you know when I was wrapping back in the day, that was the same thing. I'm like, I put on my little resume. Yeah, I opened up for Kanye, I opened up for quality, I opened up for comment And he did the same thing every time we had a major artist. He was one of the performers that opened up for it. And then that just again creates more leverage, creates more opportunities. You get practiced. And he didn't pay a dime. He didn't pay anything.

They're taking the money from you.

They're never gonna they're never gonna say, hey, you know what, it's okay.

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Have to pay today. So I'm gonna say listen, I want They're never gonna say that, right.

I want the studio, I want the gym, I want I'm taking everything.

That this school could possibly give me.

And he was like a straight a student someone.

Yeah, I mean he was a good student from what I heard.

I mean I was in in the classes with him, right, but he was I mean, And that's the thing is that I can't stress. And I'll say this over and over again. You have to succeed in that space. So do everything you possibly can to leverage every opportunity that they have.

So that's interesting because you know that's that's culture, hip hop culture and music. And one of the things that you guys do is that you blend culture with education. And you have a company called Trill and not Trill, right, So that's an interesting name. Trill and not trial put off the Texas, put off the Texas a right, but a trill and not Trill For people that might not be familiar, what do is trill mean?

So for us.

I mean, like you said, you know, we got it from from listening to you GK. And the idea of trill in essence is true and real coming together right, So can you be truthful? Can you be honest? But can you keep it authentic? And for us, that's what we do. We're educators who are making sure that we keep it real every single time that we speak to somebody, and we're authentically us also at the same time.

And Trill or Not Trill started out as a blog we threw.

I used to throw a hashtag on my Facebook pages back in the day saying is this trill or is this not trill? Then I said, if I wrote a blog, would y'all read my blog? And you know how people do, Yeah.

We're gonna read it.

Read it right, I got you.

That's it. So the blog picked up.

And what happened was I hit up Lenny randomly because we were meeting about something else, and I said, yo, I got this blog and is starting to cook a little bit.

Do you want to you want to maybe write about it?

And Lenny, with the business background, said, you know, I think this could be larger than a blog, and I think that we might be able to turn this into a business model and a business idea to transform education. And we put all of our minds together and we said, this is what we are. We are going to be

The needs of Now you know, we're not using the same thing from last semester. Every semester is different. Every generation is different. There's the Millennials, the Generation Z. So we able to you know, continue to be current and make sure that we're reaching every student dope.

And I think that that's important too, because you know, a lot of times we have these narratives of what a professional looks like, right right, Like, so I taught a financial literacy class.

Let's talk about it.

I've been teaching financial literacy Troy. Troy has a program every summer for six weeks for kids like sophomores and freshmen, and I teach a financial literacy classes part of his program. I went doing it for like six years. And I come in just off the street, like I'm dressed that day. That's how I come in. Some days I'm dressing the suit. Some days I have flip flops and shorts on. So one day particularly, I have flip flops and shorts on.

Right, And that's the thing I was like, judge him on his character, Like what he's wearing is not important.

What is delivering is important. I had a gentleman tell me right.

I was doing a parent orientation and I had some AM MAX on and he was like, you're really going to do a presentation for parents in AMX and I said yeah, and he was like, well, this isn't really professional. I said yeah, I'm changing the narrative of what professional is. And he was like, what do you mean. I said, yeah, the guy wearing M max is now hiring your daughter

Right, what we're delivering more important than what we have on you know what I mean?

Well, that's why that's why schools get left. And I always talk about it every time.

You know.

I remember my dad used to say, listen, if y'all aren't downstairs by eight fifteen for the ride, I'm leaving, right, And that was the test that said I I'm never going to get left again, and I don't ever want to be left. And that's what's happening to these institutions. And that's why it's important for people like all of us that are sitting at this table to be in the educator space because you know, we have a new book that's coming out quick plug in the fall.

Call.

You know what I mean. We wear kicks to work, and.

That means that's just sowing y'all that we can pull up to any institution at any space.

Y'all see their feet right now. But listen, they came here today.

You want to see I'm here.

Go to class like this too. It's important though it really isn't. And it's like because I used to see my college professors come dressed having it when they wear boat shoes and ye, but it's like from a different culture, so it's never quite yep. But when we wear what we feel comfortable in our culture, now, it's like, what's going on here? No, it's what it is.

We're gonna be honest with us. It changed the game, you know, us wearing kicks with our suits. You know, students were legit out of college with two weeks ago and these two black kids was walking out and two African American students walking out chilling on campus and they literally stopped us.

It was like, yo, y'all, y'are fresh man.

I don't know, I.

Don't know what y'all hear from y'all, y'all basketball, what ch'are doing here?

And it's funny, those same kids ended up in our presentation right, and they volunteered and they came up to us after they emailed us, and it was like, listen, we would love to just build with you guys and learn from you, and we can learn from them too, So you know, I really believe. Yeah, you know, probably

You can't deny it. So it's been truly success.

It's been a successful thing for us to wear these kicks because it puts us in spaces in conversations that typically maybe been a little awkward at first, or the students like it was awkward, but now it's it's you on them kicks a fly. Then it's like, oh, so how's that business course going? Oh it's not going to come come see me, or how's your financialad going? You know, come come see me. I'll make sure we'll get that fixed.

I'd say, it's all the time, like you, that's the unwritten language, right. A kid when he sees those sneakers automatically he relates to you. A lot of times in education, they don't have people that they can see that it relates. I can wear Jordan's and I don't have to say anything to a kid for my culture. He knows that, like, oh, he wears the same things as me, so like I

Like wait, he listens to the same music. Right, We're good.

It's like what we always say, you know, putting the medicine in the apple sauce. Right, honestly, it's it's also just it is not just wearing sneakers too. I don't want people to think like, oh, no, I'm gonna pull up in some off. Don't don't do that. It's about culture in general. Like you know, people complain about, oh,

Man, that's the thing.

You know that kid kid just won three million dollars for playing Fortnite, right, And instead of saying, man, I can't believe a kid won three million dollars for Fortnite, you need to start thinking, how do I include Fortnite in my curriculum? What conversations do I need to be having as an educator, or as a financial literacy person, or as an I cannot as an economist, or as a graphic designer, or as a storyteller that says, look at this, look what happened here. Now let's show how

Man, my kid's gonna start playing Fortnite too. That's just not do to health.

Without his brain breaking news, spending more time and crazy.

Did you say that? Because even my son, like he was telling me like he wanted to be a YouTuber and I'm like, let's do it. And then like peoples like that's not something real. I'm like, I will tell the kid that made twenty two million dollars year, right, that's what's real money is actually, So it's like, oh, yeah, well, you know what is this doing. It's doing the same thing everybody else is doing.

And when that kid with that YouTuber when he turns sixteen, am I going to be the one that says, hey, you should go to college and study marketing.

I'm like, you know, now, I think he's figured it out.

He should be he should be teaching the class, right.

All right, So in the next segment, we're going to talk about public speaking, and then we're going to talk about some other things as far as get yourself off the ground falls business is concerned, all right. So we're going to talk about public speaking. That's something that's very big.

Yeah, so I'm I'm working at missions. Of course, I'm not an expert when it comes to financially. But I know enough when it comes to finding out loopholes such as that as I'm gonna.

Call it a loophole where parents.

I even seen read an article the dad somebody parents are getting divorces right legally separating so it looks like they have one parent in the house, which is crazy. I'm not telling you to do that, but that's somebody back there like, yeah, but.

We're not about to break up this.

Let's got a kid going.

They're gonna be a doctor. It's gonna benefit. But anyway, so you know pretty much what people do is you can also say your child is paying rent. Your child depends on how you classify yourself or how you do your taxes is the most important part when it comes to faster So you can do do different loopholes as far as you know, being a person that lives in the house and you pay rent. The same thing that happened in Illinois. I'm not saying is good or bad.

When she lost her job, of course she didn't have as much money.

You can go to financial Weight and ask for a hardship form, right, and you can fill out and explain and find it's up to financialate to make that decision and find you money. So again I'm o here to police it and say it's good or bad. But that stuff is true.

Yes, yeah, I remember I got financially it was like twelve dollars.

Twelve dollars I went through more people. What were going to do with this? I couldn't buy a pack of pencils. You know what I'm saying, Like create hours, that's true middle.

Class get screwed when it comes to that stuff because they make too much, but they don't really make enough realistically, because even in New York, you make one hundred thousand dollars, that's not that's not real money.

Like you know what I mean, who's a fifty five thousand a year.

Yeah, you're struggling, like one hundred thousand. You struggling.

I told you, I mean I used to.

I tell the kids every time, like every day, like, I'm not sure there's not a middle class because whatever somebody from the local sales economic status has, it will be subsidized so that we're on the same playing field, right, So like a kid that their parents don't make as much, like they're gonna get a full scholarship as I'm going to get told I was financial aid, right, So we're gonna be in the same boat. Matter of fact, you might be in a better position if you take advantage of this.

I think that's an interesting conversation because I had this conversation with somebody who my friend, he's a doctor and he lives in and he looked in Wall Street at the time, and we was talking about like what's middle class for New York City for Manhattan. All right, I asked, everybody, wish your number New York City, Manhattan, und middle class, middle class.

I'm gonna say two hundred, two fifty, two.

Fifty, I said.

I said as a couple, I said three fifty as a couple, a couple, and I said to fifty. As an individual, you make anything less than two fifty, and mad you struggling, struggling, struggling. But so the thing about it is like, so when you thought out your financial aid form, they're doing it the same as somebody in Idaho two fifty in Idaho. You you even in Atlanta, you make two fifty in Atlanta, you you get a dope house like you can like you know, you're living good.

You're not financially you're making two fifty. No, not forget the twelve house, you get zero. Don't even follow now on the flip side.

I will say if you do get if you get free or reduce lunch at your school, you should be taking advantage of finding out all the grants that are out there, pell grant, TAG grant and other grants and programs at these And every institution is different, so don't go by what you see as like a blanket answer or just one answer, one generic answer.

Every school is different.

You should rely reach out not only to the admissions office, but to that financial aid office and find out you know, hey, my child, as you know, free of reduce lunch. Sometimes schools offer scholarships to the high school and also even more important college board. If you have free or reduce lunch, you get to take the SAT and the ACT for free twice.

That's key.

So if you go to guidance, they have to give you that form to fill out or the paper whatever it is, but they give it.

To you and you can go to school.

I mean you can take the SAT twice and the ACT twice for free.

Now, so you said two key words that those are those terms grants and scholarships.

That's money you do not have to pay back.

Like people need to know that you do not have to pay that money back that it's granted to you, and sometimes it's for the duration of the time you're live, or sometimes it might just be for one year or the semester.

So like I always look for so many of.

Them, so many out there, so you know that's that's key.

And also let me tell you another trick that school's doing and I want people to know since we on this financial piece, is don't compare scholarship amountain numbers to a particular school because every tuition is different. So for example, the school I work at, New Jersey City University, let's just say I'm just still a number out to make it easy. Let's say it's twenty thousand hours a year to go to the school for four years, so it's.

Eighty thousand hours.

Let's say you get a full scholarship.

That's eighty thousand hours as an award right over the over the four years. Another school MutS say, competing school Seaton Hall is forty thousand hours a year, right, so forty times for us is one hundred and sixty right, so one hundred and sixty thousand. The school Seaton Hall might say we're gonna give you a scholarship for ninety five thousand dollars, right, and just she was giving a

Now when they receive that money, right, and this happened to a gentleman, I know, like the money is made out to the student right now that check?

How does that work? Do they have to Does money directly go to the school?

Mostly directly goes so it depends.

When it's a college merit based scholarship at the college, it goes directly to the school. But let's say you get a local scholarship or a state scholarship. So for example, my last two years of college, I did not have to pay tuition because I had the internship and I got free tuition. Now in addition that I was still applying to other scholarships. I had like over ten different local scholarships. I literally took the check, went to bursar

Got it all right? That's that's the good information. Can we talk about public speaking because that's something that is very big right now and a lot of people want to get into the public speaking, spake, motivational speakers, all kinds of different speakers. But that's something that you guys do. So yeah, can you talk about that?

We can? So I have a very we both do.

We both I know exactly where you're going.

I have a special feeling about public speakers because you know, I always go back to this Tupac quote from Hit Him up.

At the end where goes on his rent.

He says, you know, when I first started out, I told you all this was just about Biggie and then everybody had to open their mouths with the mother f an opinion. And when he said that, it just really articulates the world that we live in today, where everyone has.

Everyone you know what I'm saying, Everyone has an opinion. Now, there's nothing wrong with having your opinion. I support it.

Talk good talk, but we have so many platforms for people who are not doing the work. And that's the problem that I have with public speaking. So we're gonna I'm here to help. I'm here to have this conversation. But it's it's an important precursor to say. Just because you have some quotes on your Instagram page and you are retweeting Gary Vee or Eric Thomas, right, you know,

Well, you know, one of my my main resources is earn your leisure. Then why don't I just go get early? You know? So with public speaking, that's the first thing.

You know, if you're one of those people, God blessed, I'm you know, I don't support it. But if you're an individual that's really going to be providing content, see these individuals who need it, because there are young people and and and older people who need the help and you have to be able to to support that. So in our in our space, I think one of the first things is to recognize what is it that you

So that's number one.

Number two is your audience so I'm not a financial expert, so I'm not going So when somebody says, hey, Jeff, can you come talk to us about leadership and financial literacy, I'm gonna say.

No, don't be a jack of all trades.

Don't do that.

So make sure that you're very specific in the content that you're delivering. That's what actually separates you from everyone else. Sure there are a bunch of leadership speakers, Sure there are a bunch of people talking about financial literacy. Sure there's a bunch of people talking about mental health. That's fine. Your job is to figure out how do I separate myself from that particular core group. And you're not going to be able to do that if you're talking about

It over and over and over and over again.

There's a lot of us who thought that, you know, just because we're funny in the group chat doesn't mean that we can be stand up comedians. And you learn that quick when you're a public speaker. My first ever gig was at NYT and they said, we need you for an hour and thirty minutes and I said, I've been, you know, leading workshops in my class, and I've been talking to my people's I pulled up at NYT and at thirty minutes into this speech, I was done.

I'm keep it rolling.

And you find yourself in there thinking like, man, all right, maybe I could just spit a quick sixteen Maybe I can just draw on the board.

We're going to take a fifteen break.

So you have to really have that content because you got to be able to do that. And so I remember that saying I just wasn't prepared, but you got to do that. You got to take that first l to say, all right, this is what I can do, dude, to get better.

This is what I have to learn.

How to stand, how my posture works, how my speaking intonations go.

All of those things are are really important.

Yeah, I think also learn the power of leverage.

So a lot of people going to public speaking or want to speak at colleges, for example, and they're charging this crazy amount with no background. Right, So being willing to say I'm going to do it for free just to be at certain locations or get things on your resume is very important as a public speaker. But I also want to even say, there's so many public speakers, and I'm happy to see that it's grown. But I

You know what I mean.

I'm sorry, you know, you know I have a very hard line on some of these things that enough is enough.

We got to start doing some work.

And I don't know how many times I've been to Hey, the seven most effective people to learn about leadership in your community while you're wearing natural hair.

And also I don't need that. I don't need all these panels, and.

It turns to like passive shade.

And people, I'm the best person at this, and then everyone walks out the room with no content. And there are these young people that need our help. And there's a lot of us who are at working at NBC's that are working at pfizers that are working at large banks and intitutions, are entrepreneurs that need to say, as we go in there and perfect our speaking, can we help these students and build for the future. So you know,

You to return if you can't do anything when you get there.

But but what is all right? Fair enough? You should have good purpose and you should be educated. Assuming you are, now, what's the steps to actually got cool?

So I had to get that off.

Hale lot.

But I think one of the I always tell the story I started posted on my Instagram out the day I started out in the boys and girls club. Right, it was a boys and girls club. My friend of mine is Ron Brangman. Shout out to him, told me and never forget. He was like, I know you want to become, you know, a speaker, you want to get involved. Said I'm gonna give you two things. I'm gonna give you this space, but I'm also going to tell you

Can you talk about the names of the blogs. I thought they were brilliant. We talked about it.

Also.

Some of the blogs that we created in the beginning were like Beyonce Beyonce and Social Change Model, Kevin Durant and Retention.

I know you don't want to justin Bieber.

Yeah, what we did what Drake can teach you about conflict management and we also did Nicki Minaj and non verbal communication and so you know, you add all those things and just give some other quick tips about public speaking is so content, So video content is key. So people need to know that you're actually speaking. So people would rather see you speak than here you speak or

And that's how you can leverage it.

So sometimes you can go to a school or an institution and say listen, I'll do it for free, but can you allow me to get video content. Number two is whatever you speak, make sure you get a mailing list, so you want people to always know that you're speaking as many times as possible and let them know, hey, this is what I'm doing, so people will always remember. So that mailing list is really key and one of the big leverages that's going to allow you to move

To do a workshop?

Did that?

After I did a couple of workshops, I said, can I do a keynote? They said, let's test you out, testing me out. Nailed the keynote, got the keynote speech right fast forward. Lenny and I Triller not Trill. We run the conference like literally in a five year span. I started out as somebody who's getting rejected to now we curate the entire conference and bring in speakers. It's called NCSL. It's the National Conference on Student Leadership. It's

And then I want to add two more tips to that. Another one is one is for social media. Don't get caught up on how many followers you have, get caught up again on the niche. Make sure your niche market is following you. So we don't have a large I mean, we have a decent amount of followers, but we have a bunch of decisions makers at college campuses that can bring us in or help us run a conference. And then the last piece is writing books, right, so we

So let me actual you to Let's say they email you and they want you. You know, they say, okay, we want you to come in. Somebody at a student at a student union organization says we want to bring you in. What do you say, Like, do you say, okay, I want to come, but this is my rate to come.

So the first thing you do, first thing we do, we send you a pre program survey. And I'm be honest, we didn't do this in the beginning, and that's when it got a little tricky. But on the pre program survey it says budget, what is your budget period? So then we now because we have a team now, before it was just Jeff and Notch was a little different. Now we can kind of figure out how can we based on that budget, what can we really provide for you?

I don't. I don't step foot out the house without knowing what the budget is.

Going to be.

So do you know, just ereck any other field, just ask them and be transparent. And then I always say, whatever their budget is, there's probably it's probably a little bit higher than that, right, So then you start to you start to ask for other other little things.

Within that information. All right, Okay, well, thank you guys for coming on. We appreciate you.

Yeah, man, this is great.

Can you tell the people how to contact you? Your handles, your your your website, all information.

Yeah, So personal handle is at professor dot wims. You can find Traill and out trail anywhere. Just put at troll and our trail and our website is Trail natril dot com.

Yeah, and I'm at mister Jeff Desk m R j E F F D E S S on all platforms and then again at trial or natrill. We've got a lot of really cool content coming out this fall, a lot of new team members, a lot of new works.

So yeah, man.

And if you also work for a company and you know we always talk about doing this work and you have the connections or you know, you can help students get jobs and internships. We know some amazing students across the country. Feel free to reach out to us and will help you. Even come in and speak to our students as well.

Two hundred schools right at the.

Two hundred, I mean we're at I think that maybe.

More now we're closer to two hundred in US. Virgin Allan's in Canada.

Troy, Yeah, man, So we're just gonna call out Patreon dot com. That's how Proud to pay program and it's been going amazing. I gotta give a huge shout out to Danida. Dania's from Houston and we had a call and she was super excited about us coming. She wants to lay out of itenterary for us. So shout out to Danida and everybody in Houston. And I want to give another one to Amaya, who actually hit us up on Instagram when she saw a post about our program.

She put me on the game. Shout out to her.

But yeah, Patreon dot com Backslasher and Realisia. We have five different tiers. Feel free to join any tear. Our merch is out on elisia dot com.

Our website is that a construction under construction, under constructions just being.

Really it's still up, so feel free to buy the merch and support that.

And yeah, man, yeah, Patreon is is a community first and foremost, and it's a it's a way to interact with me and Troy and a lot of time people want like you know, mentorship or they want to have like real so you can actually have like FaceTime conversations with us. And it also allows you early access to the podcast. More importantly, like I said, it's really a community.

That means that the alumni now welcome to the alumnu.

And yeah, Houston won. One last thing is Houston, Texas. We are coming on the twenty second, so don't think it to o rs VP and yeah, we'll see you guys soon.

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