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So if the school has a sponsor, the player can't have that same sponsors.
Boom it just people don't say that out loud. That's why I'm here.
So a school like Michigan, I'm assuming.
They have their their Nike schools.
Now, you can't you can't be a quarterback and have a Nike sponsorship. Because Nike is already sponsored.
You can be no, you can be the quarterback and wear Nike for free. You can't get paid, or you can't wear nothing else. If this was if nil was supposed to represent a true market value, that means when you go to a college, you should be able to wear whatever shoes that's paying you, not the shoe that has a contract with the school.
My graduates from my school being forced back drop drop, Mike.
Drop back drop. All right, all right, guys, welcome back EYL Detroit Edition. So this is something.
What about I didn't have a proper introduction.
I'm about to get into it. This is something that is very important to both of us. So before we was fans of anything, we was fans of sport and basketball specifically, so the Fab five for me, I played basketball my whole life, and I used to think I was going to go to the NBA. That was my original plan. So I don't think I even ever said
this publicly. But the only time I really got emotional in sports is I think nineteen ninety two when Young Guys lost to Duke, and I remember I was, I was, I started crying because it was real emotional for me because it was kind of like a fight where you got the good Not to say Duke was bad guys, but it was just like, you know what I'm saying, like you got all your hopes and pride in one
team and the other teams. I hated Duke for years, like twenty years off of that, and it was like with the Fab five reporter with the Fab five represented was bigger than basketball for me. It was just the culture, Like y'all had the uniforms, you had to swag baggy, the black speakers and the ball heads like that was like culture. And that's the first time I ever saw something like that happen. So it was just such a pride that y'all made it that far, and then when y'all lost, it was just.
Thank you, appreciate the support. And the crazy thing about that is, obviously we stand on the shoulders of giants and there are people that I we looked up to as well. So in collegiate basketball, John Thompson and what he was doing with Georgetown just like a legendary figure and he stood for the athlete in the athlete's voice because he understood that a lot of us came from
impoverished backgrounds and single parent homes. And I remember Big John was protesting Prop forty eight and the game would start and before they do the tip, Big John wild walk off, and a lot of people don't realize this, but he was in contact with us, and if that would have gone on like a few more games, there's a great chance that we would have walked off too. And so like that relationship was there, UNLV would tark.
That's another team.
Anderson Hunt went to Detroit Southwestern, that same school I went to it. So when I was in eighth grade going to ninth grade, he was twelfth grade to be a freshman at UNLV, and so we played in the Vegas International. I went to UNLV multiple summers. I remember being there on recruiting trips and meeting at O'Bannon and JR. Ryder because I feel like I was going to UNLV because at that time, you were picking a school that represented your culture or somebody that you know from your
hometown went there to be successful. So I took a visit to Syracuse. Derek Coleman my old g It's my big brother Dunholme, so so y'all. People say where the shorts come from? Anderson Hunt was giving me shorts. Dereck Coleman was giving me shorts. Doug Smith was at Missouri, he was giving me shorts. So in the summer time, that's what it was. So by the time we got to college, were like, we're not wearing them those two small We know y'all got the We know y'all got
the bread, y'all got the budget. And if y'all not gonna pay us, at least let us look the way we wanted to look. But the team we embodied the most, To be honest with y'all, Hurricanes football.
You legendary.
Let me tell you something. The way you felt when we played Duke it is how I felt when they played Notre Dame. And I remember the Saints versus Sinners game and it was crazy to watch how they were able to overcome being judged by the media is still be great at their sport. And so we really just tried to take the baton for what they were doing. And that's what made the Fab five.
Were you the first one to say I'm going to Michigan because I mean, obviously the U and L I'm just thinking about that now, like, if you're on that UNIFL you andl team, you got Greg Anthony and that's a hunt Stacy Ogmy, Larry Johnson, and then.
They left it.
You could have you would have been the very next spetman class, correct, So like, are you the first one to say it?
Now?
I gotta stay home because that would have been That would have been crazy.
So I love Tark Tark as the man and his associate head coach, Tim Gergovich, he coached in the league for a long time, like they were one of the first major programs that would take what were considered troubled black kids. And I talked about this in the five five documentary, and obviously I got a lot of blowback of speaking about how I felt as a young person.
But colleges know who they recruit. They do their homework about you, and they know a player that lives on the cul de sac or that doesn't have heat in the house. They know the difference. And my frustration with schools like Duke, and that's what I said is they didn't recruit players like me, but UNLV did And so I loved Tart and I would have been a part of that next class, except Juwan signed first, and we had a game against the Soviets in nineteen ninety one,
our senior year. Juwan was playing in Chicago, Chris and I were playing in Detroit. This is way before the influx of international players were in the league. This is around the time the Dream Team. I believe it was the same year. So the Soviets came here to play us in downtown Detroit. Juwan came to play on the team, and so we were friends already. We were in McDonald's All American Game. Juwan and committed, Jimmy committed. Ray committed
in the early period. But see Webb and I didn't commit to after the season, and I was, I guess I was on my what Lamar Jackson is on now, Like I'll wait till the end of the season before I decide. I'm wait too, you know. And so I didn't decide until after the state championship. We want to state championship. And so I chose number five because I was the fifth member of the Fab five to sign.
That wasn't my number in high school. I knew we were creating something special, and so that's why I chose to go to Michigan.
It's little things that people don't even realize that it's bringing back so many memories for me. Like when you talk about shorts, shorts were real big in that era. And I'm from New York, so it was like old eyes. Remember that was it was a store in hallm Fact and it was like these shorts used to cost like sixty dollars. That was like wearing like Guccio Louivia tack and it was like we like shorts. I remember Arkansas raised they were too far. Their shorts was like down to the ankle.
They were after us.
They went too far. But it was like little things like that meant a lot. It sounds crazy, like shorts is really something, but like shorts, y'all guys, like it was fashion, Like it wasn't just basketball, it was actually fashion.
It was it was It was fashion, but it was also unapologetic. See the one thing that being the the the descendants of slavery. As black people, we try to express ourselves in ways where we can't be denied. And so I can wear my hair the way I want to wear it. You may not like it. You may not even give me a job because I got an affro, I got braids, I have twists like that happens. The
same thing happens with fashion. There are a lot of people that did not like the fact that we were wearing long shorts because we looked different.
Like who were they? Like what?
Because we were trying to be comfortable, we didn't realize the phenomenon that was gonna have. We were just like, we're not wearing those small shorts. I love Isaiah Thomas, just the o G. He is sponsor of j R.
L A.
But I'm not wearing no small shit. He had him and John stocked and had the smallest shorts of all time. That's like soft porn, like for real, for real, we're not doing that. But the other thing we ain't doing And I see y'all got fresh kicks on. We ain't wearing those those jock shoes y'all giving us. Now we're the Dion's where the bo Jackson's we rocking nose.
Y'all made the basketball sneakers.
They ain't came back four times back with boxes of shoes, but bags of shoes that dropped them on the floor. We're like, we ain't wearing them, don't even don't even where the Jordan's at. And that's how we ended up wearing the Barkleys and then ended up wearing the Hirachis and that became a fab five shoe that's been re released to this day, to this day. So if Nil existed, then, like I don't even have to make this up like some people have to project what might happen. Imagine if
we had. And this is why I always acknowledge standing on the shoulders of giants, because people now that come behind us are smart enough to trademark stuff. Times are different. Now I say college, I ain't know my credit score, you know what I'm saying. Like, times were just different. And so imagine if we would have been able to trademark socks that were black. When we went to the mall, they didn't even have five pairs of black socks in the whole mall.
That's crazy.
So if we got a dollar for every time somebody bought black socks, me and Phield Knight to be neighbors.
All I want in high school we played boways on say in high school team that's all I want is black socks. Correct, But it stems from y'all, Doug. We were in Texas. We went to the mall. They only had three.
I wore dress socks against rice on top of white socks. I had on dress socks.
It's so crazy because even now.
I had so I have to wear my pop's dress.
Exactly even now to this day. This summer I was in Philly. I went to Mitchell on Net store and I got the whole uniform. I got Chris Webb's jersey and I got the shorts. So that's twenty five years later correct, and it's still and I wore. I was in Dykement. I wore it to the game. They were like, Yo, where you get that jersey from?
Like it's like and by the way, shout to Jim Jones, that's my brother. I ain't get up there to represent that dykeman. Shout to Dave East who just that's my brother who represents the Pacer jersey. Just shouted out Jaalen and Jacobe recently, like those those my guys. And it's crazy for me, as somebody that's almost fifty to see what you just said. That's crazy, like like Jalen is a common name, that is a fact you and not it's a common name.
I say it. I feel like I didn't really hit to be people who name not said before nins and I had never heard anybody named Jalen before you, and now that both kind of you hear anybody named Jayleen.
And it's turned into sex. Correct, Jalen's turned into a uniit sex name.
And here's what I've said this to Shaq and to Denzel, who I love dearly, got both of their numbers in my phone. But they're like the greatest at what they've accomplished. Like there isn't a larger than life former athlete than Shack literally and physically. In Denzel, he's the gold at what he does. So people are gonna name their kids after them. But the one thing I noticed, they're all
black boys or girl. They're all black men. Like the name Jalen is a unisex name, different racists, different shades, different creeds, boys and girls. And that literally started because of the popularity that we had as the Fab Five.
It was on the list of my daughter's names. My mom's name starts with the J, and so Jalen was on the name.
Yeah, that literally started because of the Fab Five. And so what we've been able to accomplish, there's the score of the game, and it's the game of life. I was in school three years. Like Tom Izzo could be at Michigan thirty years. I mean Tom Mizzem could be in Michigan State thirty years and he is a great coach. But win one championship in that thirty years and we'd be like, it's champion. I only get three years. I don't get thirty. And so what happens beyond the score
of the game. There are a lot of teams that win championships, there are a lot of people that win accolades. But the thing that we won that can't be purchased is the culture. And so I appreciate having hip hop the inner city urban areas support us. Then so now when we became mainstream, I remember people was trying to hide us. It was like rap music. It's like, don't look at them, like we don't ball heads, black shoes, black side, we uh uh, get that out of here.
And it was like when I saw what Muhammad Ali. Muhammad Ali's my favorite athlete of all time, and it broke my heart to see how he was ostracized from society. And then when he had really bad turets, I felt like, Oh, we're gonna embrace him now, let him hold the torch In Atlanta, I was like, what, it's late nineties, Like
he's been alleged thirty years. It was ostracized by society, and so I'm just happy that we're each living and breathing now and get a chance to see the progression of what we've accomplished and now how it's played out in society.
You talked about John Thompson Prop forty eight. Can you talk about that and how did that even come about? That he reached out to you guys and explain what Prop forty eight is.
So when we were in high school, there was a Prop forty eight and a Prop forty two. Young people now take SAT They take ACT Achievements tests to determine where they are based on those test results. But there was also a secondary test that athletes were required to take. It was called the Prop forty eight test. And by the way, why we gotta take an extra test? You know what I'm saying, Try and play ball, like, why
do I gotta take an extra test? That extra test was Prop forty eight, And so like SAT ACT or many state assessed tests, it wasn't something that we were introduced to or even taught in our schools, and it wasn't something that we necessarily had the resources to go
out to get the support to actually navigate. So there were so many great athletes who were eligible in high school, signed letters of intent or we're in we're en route to sign letters of intent, but couldn't enroll in play unless you pass this test that was called the Prop forty eight. And John Thompson I appreciate so very much. He understood that it was culturally unsound how it was being administered. So he did what you hope most coaches would do, what most coaches didn't do, by the way,
during the NIL. So let me just throw this out there. If coaches wanted players to get the nil, why ain't nobody stand on the table and nobody say nothing? Because they was getting paid, still getting paid, getting their shoe money, getting their appearance money, getting their radio money, getting their TV money, getting their camp money, getting their money from
the school. Nobody stood on the table like John Thompson did for Prop forty eight, and he said, this is so unfair that I know the Big Ten, I know the Big East is popping, I know we just got the big shoe deal. I know everybody watching, but when these games start, I'm gonna walk off in protest. And
as he did it, the snowball got bigger. And I don't maybe it was a gentleman named Greg Hardin, I believe, who was like an administer administrator at Michigan who kind of pulled my coat in particular to it, but he was like a bridge to Coach Thompson, like Coach Thompson, Hey, Coach Thompson, on my name, that's love. And we were talking about what happens if the rule doesn't change what you're willing to do. I'm want to go walk off too, wanted to do it was like uh snoop, what you
want to do? What you're want to do?
You know what I mean?
Right right right, That's what it was. And so we was like we ready, we're gonna follow you, big fellow, and no different than when we rocked the Black Sox when people didn't see it coming. We were ready to fall in line behind Big John around a prop forty eight.
So but I mean John Thompson obviously resident peace legendary coach at Georgetown, But you didn't go to Georgetown so I wanted the role that as this is happened in the Coach that you had Steve Fisher, who obviously gave y'all freedom to be with you are, what was that like.
Coach Coach Frieder took a lot of disrespect by white America because a lot of people called him a Negro lover. And this was at a time when in the Big Ten you have personalities like Bobby Knight, Vienna and Gene Katie were on paper, it looks like they're disciplined in them, they keeping them in check, and it's like, hey, Fish, why are you letting Jane the rose where it's back jersey backwards? Like why is Chris Webber talking trash after
a dunk? Put them negroes in check? And when they felt like he didn't discipline us in front of them, they got mad at him. It's something that happened in the Fab five doc that goes over a lot of people's head. We were getting off the bus and we were in Europe and we had on just like a jogging suit right now. I literally had on like a button up joging suit like I have on right now, and he was like Jalen tucked that jacket in. He forced me to tuck my jacket into my pants. You
see what I mean. But he just didn't do it outwardly and wasn't as demonstrative or as mean as other coaches at the time, so people tried to take it as we were running over him, but we wasn't. That was it was so far from the truth, and he supported us. People didn't like that. We were in his office one time and I was just having a bad day, you know, I was frowning, and he's like, Jayden, what's wrong? Like my mother lights got cut off, That's what's wrong.
Like I need to get my pailgram money, like I need an advance, I need to do something. And at the time I was I used to shoot dice all of the time. That was one of my hustles. I used to, you know, play a lot of cards in my mind, like I gotta go hustle more to help my mom and to help my situation. Because if you're poor at home in Detroit and now you got an apartment in in Arbor, that's two separate places that need
the bills getet paid. Where we couldn't pay the bills at the first spot and he was understanding of that. He appreciated my honesty. He appreciated our relationship enough to whereas I I'm not from where you from, but I get where you coming from. And that's what Steve Fisher did for the five five overall. He uh, he could have started us from the beginning. And he'll tell you this story, well he's mentioned this story is that he had to get the courage to start us off because
everybody was mad at him. And his father always told him about just play the best players, like don't forget the white media, forget whoever that like accuses you of, you know, being a Negro lover, so to speak. But his father died during the season and we was about to play Notre Dame right after his father died, and we walked in the locker room for the first time we seen all of our names on the board.
Was like, like we starting.
It was on national TV. It was on NBC, and we was like, he was like this shit, better work because everybody watching this. Better work. And we score every point. We won the game, and that was a thank you to Fisher in particular.
So let's talk about this. So you in il name image likeness You've referenced before that you didn't have money to eat at certain times, but you saw your jersey being sold while you was in college and how that, how that, you know, affected you psychologically. So this is a big deal because for a long time people have benefited from college athletics, from college athletes, and it hasn't
been the athlete. And if they took money, then it was under the table and they got villainized and they got stripped of awards that they won and made it they was like criminals stuff like that. So now players can actually profit from their likeness. Some coaches, like Nick Saban, disagrees with some of the things that's happened. Some coaches are for it. What's your thoughts on in IL?
The number one word is greed that I have. I'm really disappointed in how the NIL distribution has actually played out.
Earns what's going on? As you gear a fall.
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But I want to set the table with this acknowledgment. The sports that are predominantly black are the ones that once you get into them, the goal is for you to feed the system and help the system make as much money as possible before you profit. Basketball and football, predominantly black sports, are the main ones with restrictions after high school. For a while it had dress code, had salary cap, couldn't small weed, had a length of contracts like in baseball you can sign a ten year deal,
and hockey you can sign a nine year deal. Canan basketball and tennis and golf. In NASCAR, you can turn pro after high school. Canan basketball and football. They're going to force us and this is a residue of slavery, That's what it is. They're going to force you to feed and pay the system as long as possible when you graduate from high school. There's so many players that shown you can go to the league and be successful.
Kobe kg Jo, Darryl Dawkins, Spencer Haywood, the originator, Ron James, so team at So there's evidence, concrete evidence that Hall of Fame players can go from high school to the pros's twenty twenty two. Now, that's bang why they want you to feed the system. Same with the NFL. So what happens with the NIL is right now. JEEP is a sponsor of JRLA Puma is a sponsor, MGM is a sponsor. If I went to Michigan right now, they wouldn't let me have them a sponsors because it conflicts
with what they already have. So now you're just getting like the residue.
Explain that. Explain it. So if the school has a sponsor, the player can't have that same sponsor.
Boom it just people don't say that out loud. That's why I'm here.
So a school like Michigan, I'm assuming.
They have their their Nike schools.
Now you can't you can't be a quarterback and have a Nike sponsorship because Nikes already sponsored you.
Can be No, you could be the quarterback and we're Nike for free. You can't get paid or you can't wear nothing else. So let's see if this is a If this was if nil was supposed to represent a true market value, that means when you go to a college, you should be able to wear whatever shoes that's paying you, not the shoe that has a contract with the school.
Right so the Nike school, you can't have an ADIDA athlete or even like if it's school like Michigan, hypothetically for it, it's huge in Michigan, right, they're not doing anything with Chrysler.
No. So say the school has a deal with a network, and I have a deal with a network, they're gonna try to make me get rid of my deal before I signed. There's some fine print in your letter of intent that basically acknowledges whatever things that happen with the school, whatever sponsors happen with the school, whatever sponsors happen with the program, you're required to support that. So that's why you're not seeing major collegiate athletes getting paid off of nil,
because the schools ain't giving up their relationship. So the example we just used, say Michigan has a deal with Nike, and Nike's gonna pay them fifty million dollars a year or whatever, and you're trying to get the number one player in the car. You're trying to get Bronnie James to come there. Hypothetically, he ain't choosing no school for no money. I'm just using him as an example, and say the deal is fifty million dollars. Nike don't care
if you give Brownie five. They don't care, but they gonna give you forty five, and you gonna give him five. The deal is still fifty. That's the difference. The school ain't gonna cut into their bread to make sure you get paid.
So that's what's going on the that makes my life.
That's why nobody getting paid.
That's why nobody has like a Nike sponsorship. You only see no players with like Nike deals.
You have not seen players get real deals.
It's like random.
So the quarterback, the quarterback at Alabama that had like he's not.
Even the highest, but he's seven hundred and forty four thousand. But arch arch Man, it's like random company. So it'll be like a phone company that's that's local or something, heating and cooling exactly arch Man, he's getting three point four million.
Say that name allowed exactly what we know that. I was gonna say his name?
Okay, who's he getting three point four million from?
They just announced it.
He's a text the youngest brother.
He's the nephew of paying man.
My nephew. Yeah, he's a quarterback in Texas.
He's going to be correct and say that name again, that last name for so both names.
His name is Archie Man, right.
Both exactly exactly. So they can send some emails and some texts, right, to make sure that he's gonna get taken care. That's one person.
So you're not a fan of the nil.
I'm a fan of it existing. I'm know it's not going to have the impact that it should because we institute. We had a shoe, there was a fab five shoe called the Hirachi that truly exists. That's a living, breathing thing. There's licensing for shorts, there's licensing for socks. Like if we would have been able to profit off of that, in particular players like Ray and Jimmy who didn't have
long NBA careers, they would be millionaires off of that residuals. Correct, And so now you graduate the idea and again it's a it's it's almost a Jedi mind trick to somebody that lived the game and know the game. So the rest of the world celebrated and ill yes, Rah, you don't see nobody getting nothing.
And it's crazy too because it's like I used to play D one for a couple of years. So when the game was out, what was it, two K to.
The basketball game March Madness, I don't remember being on.
That used to I never played video game, but he used to play. He used to play with my character, so I thought it was.
What a real brother does.
I almost well with this team. But even though he's rated seventies all of the shots and.
There, I was a bad rating. But I just thought it was cool just to have a character in a video game. I wasn't. I'm in college, you know what I'm saying. I'm like, this is dope that I'm actually in a video game. And then when I believe it was ed O bandon right, they sued and then they want and then I actually got a check. I think I got a checked like three four thousand dollars later on, but long story short, I was part of a class
action lawsuit. So then you start to realize later on, like then they was actually making a lot of money from your likeness. Correct, you know what I'm saying. You don't realize that when you're in it.
And you know what did they do there?
Adopt the game?
There's no one boom because we ain't gonna pay you no more?
Is it?
Yeah?
They stopped the game.
There's no more game.
There's no more Marchmadaws football, and there's no more may stop the game.
It ain't like we're gonna keep the game and pay the players. It's like, we're gonna get rid of the game so we don't have to play the players. And like you, I remember being on that game, being naive, playing with myself and Da Da And imagine you got four thousand dollars, probably a decade or so after you left school. Just just just just think about those residuals. Just think about that. If they gave you four thousand dollars, that means they made forty million minimum.
Yeah.
Let alone whoever the cover team was, because they didn't use to use the picture. It would be like whoever was the championship team? I remember when when mellowing them one and it was just like damn, they just got.
His picture a d like that right in the body style. You know what I'm saying, got his breaks, got everything, but don't have his like we know who that is. And so again I think the n i L, the institution of the n i L, is a band aid. The true execution that's gonna be game changing is when the schools and the coaches, as you mentioned Nick Saban, are willing to share their sponsors that are locked in with the school. Because you can't come in with a competitor.
If you got Nike, I can't wear Puma. If you got Forward, I can't rock Jeep, so I can't get the big bag.
And that's funneling a lot of Adida's kids to Adida schools, a lot of Nike kids to Nike schools.
Correct because and then what happens is that starts to funnel down a high school that's high school level. And why a lot of times does that shoe company sponsor that team because who's playing on it. I remember, I'll never forget playing against Jamal Mashburn and the Gauchos and them.
I was like, it was.
Like they was they was they was booted. I was like, yo, they fresh. That's because of the players that have come through the program, and so we're going to invest in that program. Is that program still exist?
Yeah, that's what it's not. It's not the same level as it was before.
It's been a little drove spell for New York correct professionals.
That's like Saint Cecilia and Detroit the same thing when players were playing and it had the the the cachet, then we had the sponsors. When it doesn't necessarily have the same pro prospects and the same cachet. It's not existing anymore. Where did Mellow go to high school?
St? Anthony's?
He went?
He went he was.
No, he went to he went to the prep school.
I'm sorry not saying so.
I bring this up for a reason. Old Kill is one of the greatest schools to producing players of all time. My brother Stephen Jackson, Mellow, all of these guys. The one thing about like being an athlete and being in this sports, like we admire everybody. So I remember, like admyroing Baltimore when they had Reggie Wingate and Reggie Williams and Sam Cassell and on Muggsy Bowls, like we watched programs from other places, and I remember idolizing what ol
Kill was doing. Like I was like, that's dope. It's a school that brings people from all over the world in theory becomes one of the greatest basketball teams in the country while still nurturing young men. I was like, that's dope. But when all of those top flight players leave, so the the sponsors and Okill probably don't even exist anymore.
They're still playing the same level. I mean, they top ten nationally every they deserve to be because that's that program is dope.
But a program like rights doesn't exist anymore.
Right, shut the whole schoo down.
And what that is is solely the sponsors and school, solely the sponsor saying, y'all got who on the team.
Not gonna work?
And then all of a sudden they're not there no more, thank you, let's pivot, let's find the next school.
Correct, basically correct? So speaking of schools, all right, we're in your school right now. Congratulations person for me, thank you.
This is impressive.
We gotta take a short tour before we came here, but it's very impressive. The school that you've built Jalen Rose Academy Leadership Jalen Rose Leadership Academy, and it's ninth through twelfth grade in Detroit, Michigan. And it's a free charter school. Is that correct?
Correct?
Okay, So talk about that. What made you want to get into the business of education? And how long had the school been in existence?
So that we're entering our twelfth school year. And the one thing that people underestimate about athletes, and I joke with my entertainment friends all of the time of this, it's athletes are required to be educated because you gotta stay eligible. And therefore, because you play sports, in theory, you're required to be a role model. Very early as an athlete, people come up to you taking pictures on your autograph, on your likeness, wanna, you know, spend time
with you. And so, as somebody that was a former athlete, I was trying to think, how can I give back to the community in a meaningful way because I already had the Jayalen Rose Charitable Fund that influenced forty plus young people with scholarship dollars to college. But I felt like that just wasn't enough. It you c you can't achieve your goals necessarily anymore in America that you dreamed of right out of high school. But if you think about this, anybody that can hear my voice that is
graduated from high school. When you leave high school, your high school don't do nothing for you anymore. They invite you to the ten year reunion. You get successful, they'll ask you to donate, but they don't support you. And so one of the things I wanted to do is I feel like the eight most important years of a young person's life are the ford that they're in high school or the Ford that they could be in college. Now you ask any adult where the dreams went awry?
Is doing those puberty eight years You start making your own decisions, You start being exposed to drugs and sex and drinking and social media just j you get exposed to life, and you need a level of nurturing after high school. So it's important for me to champion a nine through sixteen model that when you graduate from high school, it's not just school. Throw you're hat in the air
and see you in ten years. It's secondary education. So we're gonna support you community college, university, se trade school, military police, had me. Whatever you decide to do, we're gonna be there and continue to help nurture you. And so the nine through sixteen thing is one of the things I'm most proud of. The Other thing is that we go for eleven months in the United States of America. You get our school in June, you go back in September.
The people that we owe billions of dollars to, or trillions of dollars to, like a China, for example, they require their young people to go to school six and there's sometimes seven days a week. So we can't truly compete in the global economy. So how can I take these young people who are not reading or doing math at the ninth grade level, but still put them in position to compete for the same career, the same job,
the same collegiate classroom as their suburban counterparts. And so that's why I wanted to champion a nine through sixteen model. If I had a blank check, I would ultimately see I would I would hope that the United States would adopt a model of a K through sixteen to where you're nurturing a young person the entire way through. And that's in the classroom, that's in trades, that's for jobs, that's for social and emotional support, that's when you're dealing
with depression, you're dealing with anxiety. We got the counselors here like it's a lifestyle, and that's what I wanted to create here, but I didn't have the bandwidth to do that just being one person. Look at the beginning pictures of when we started the school, ain't no sponsor standing behind me, not one, Like it's literally me and Dave Bing, who was the mirror at the time, cutting the ribbon. And so over the years we started to
make our outcomes happen. Sponsors and supporters started to come on board. So for me, it was an opportunity to start a school. I always was passionate about education, being a member of the Fab five and being the McDonald's all the maor people. Hey, headline is how many points I scored, how many games we want? But people underestimated the fact that I was an honor roll student in high school. I was on the dean's list at Michigan. Like,
education was always important to me. So for me, it was just an opportunity to help as many young people be educated by a quality school in their community and put them in position to chase their goals.
So what was the process?
Like I noticed is eleven year journey with twelve year journey.
Now we'll have to go into the new school year a work doing the inner workings of education.
Like we've all been.
Students and I was, you know, a teacher, and when you go on the other side, you realize, wait, this is there's a lot of stuff that you don't know. So getting the funding, figure out curriculum, making sure that the act graduation rates, attendance rates, correct truancy, all these things like, what was like that learning curfew, Like.
It's a it's a it's refreshing for me to see how young people come in because I was this young person too at eighth grade. You don't know if you want to be fly, you don't know if you want to be smart, you don't know if you want to sit in front of the class, you know, if you want to be cool, Like you're still trying to figure it out. And the number one thing that I realized that these young people needed was physical support and energy
and time and money. And so the quality of your education in the United States of America is defined by your zip code. There's reason why people with means move to a district where there's good schools. And so there's levels to this. There's the private school parent, there's the suburban public school parent, there's the inner city private school parent, and then there's the public school. So what ends up happening is you get residue from all of that and
now you have school. And so there are high performance schools like in Detroit. If you say, hey, what's the most high performing schools in Detroit the last thirty years, everybody gonna say cast Cast Technical, right, and it has been, but why is it only one? It's only one? King started to come along, Renaissance popped up there for a while. But what they do, and this ain't no shots or shade, is just a reality. They test you in before ninth
grade and they'll test you out before tenth grade. And so what we do, being open enrollment, tuition free public charter, is we're gonna take you as you are, and we're gonna nurture you over this eight year period to put you in a position to take care of yourself, educate yourself, and be in a position to take care of those you love. And so there have been a lot of challenges in trying to fundraise and trying to expand the facility. There's been a lot of frustration by me that I
need to stay encouraged. There's so many times I think, like man Michigan been fundraising for since the eighteen hundreds, the people just turn around to give them a hundred million dollars like it ain't nothing like can you give them ninety eight and give us two? You know what I'm saying. But then what I learned is some people and they not judging how you give. Like I had to learn to not judge people who don't give back to the community, who don't give their time, who do
give for prestige. And I had to realize, we don't have a stadium one hundred and twenty five thousand fans that's going to bring you to half, to bring you to midfield and give you a standing ovation. Or we don't have like the shiny building that you could put your name on and then when your college plays on TV, they're like, yo, that's just such and such and such and such building. And so this is the actual charity
that makes it to the hood. And even though I got to knock on doors, you know, a thousand times to probably get one donor, that's been the biggest hurdle in the biggest challenge to try to make sure they have the access they need to carry out the goals.
So who is it funded by the state or is it funded by private.
See here's this is like the nil so a private So a charter school gets zero state funding for its facility. Right, what's the most important thing in your life? Your house and your car. So we ain't getting no money for our facility. That means we need an HVAC system right now. It costs one point five million dollars, y'all doing this interview in this room because this is the new wing that we expanded six or seven years ago. We ain't doing it in the old wing because they no air conditioned.
We ain't doing it in the old wing because we got an elementary school gym that I can jump up and pull the rim down now because I didn't realize it was hanging. I just got here today. And so that to me has been like not only the biggest challenge, but like that's gonna be the biggest game changer also, like I'm gonna turn these limits into lemonade. And the donors that we have and the sponsors that we have,
I'm extremely grateful for them. But when I'm able to expand this facility where we don't have rotating teachers, I want to create a holistic space for meditation, prayer, counseling, have a gym where our team can play, where we can host high school tournaments and district regionals and stuff
like that. We can host colleges maybe when they come playing practice, pro teams when they come playing practice, Like that's really the next phase of what we're trying to do, but it is extremely challenging raising money for inner city young people.
I know you said you weren't disappointed in people not giving back on the surface, right, But Isaiah is one of the people who gave back, and it's a few other sponsors. But obviously as a celebrity, it feels like this should be like something that people should get behind. Well, I mean this has obviously been a valuable lesson. So how do you, I mean, how do you differentiate? Like I thought he was cool, you should support my vision. People don't. Now It's like, well, how do I view you now?
Would you just saying right there, Paim like I stop liking people because I feel like if the person if you've ever heard the word Detroit, if you've ever been in Michigan, if you've ever gone to college here, if you've ever came to Detroit Metropolitan Airport, I told you about the school or you heard about the school. So if you see our donor wall, if you see our golf outing and you're like, wait a minute, I just saw.
Joe Ernest, what's up.
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Bron, don't w a Detroy hat o ay from the d I just saw her talking about what updot What happens is I had to step back and be like yo, some people ain't willing to donate their time and their money when there isn't Press Stiege involved. And that was a hard dog. I'm trying to tell you that was a hard step because if I showed you my phone and the people that I texts that either ignore me or don't donate and claim to put on for the city. This ain't like the first year I've been doing this,
you know what I'm saying. I been doing this twelve years. So at some point you've got to fall through.
It, you know what I'm saying.
Graduation call. I picked up the phone. Big Sean, he there, Ti Grizzley, he there, Godfather inside the Baby, he there, Platinum Equity Pistols they there, Calvin Johnson, Megatron, he there. So I learned to then celebrate and embrace the people who do support, not clown expose or be mad at the people who don't. And that's hard. That's that's that's that's so challenging because usually the person that's the founder of the school ain't alive or it's named after somebody else.
Like I'm a living, breathing human being interacting with everybody. So it's like, like, I know though, like and so that that was challenging. But as people start talking about charity and giving back, I noticed many public figures don't have a foundation. A lot of people grow up somewhere and they don't have their driver's license still where they grew up. I do. I can flip it to Florida right now and save money on my taxes. I ain't doing it.
Yeah, talk about that though, right, Like obviously you went to school here in this in the state of Michigan. He played for at this right, drafted by the Nuggets YEP ninety.
Four, played for the Bulls. I did, played for Indiana, I did Toronto, was.
Yeah, yes, indeed, y'all pay good and did Phoenix Knicks and.
I was Gonnay with the Knicks during all that time.
You still lived there, Yes, so why it's so important to be I mean, this is your neighbor.
I ain't never leaving. I can walk to the house I grew up in right now. And my grandmother, who I lost a year or so ago, she was one hundred and three and she lived all of those years in the city, and she made sure, along with my mother who I lost last February, they made sure that you're gonna put on for the city, You're gonna give back to the city, and real Detroit is stay in
the city. I could take y'all, we could jump in the car right now and go drive and I could just pull up on people and be like, YO, would you rather live in Detroit or La Detroit? I ain't never leaving.
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You want to live, you want to live in? You want to go live in Hawaii? Or Detroit? Detroit? I ain't never leaving? What did I say in a fab five Dot who want to go to Europe. It ain't Detroit. That's what I said. This was thirty years ago. You see what I mean. This was thirty years ago. And the reason why we feel so passionate about it is not only what it's done for us, but we know
it needs help. We know it scarred. We know that if you leave a time that had one point five million people that now has six hundred thousand people, you're going to continue to diminish our hometown. So it's important for people who have the opportunity to migrate to still consider making Detroitor Michigan their home to do that reinvestment. So that's why it was important to me to never believe.
Let's talk about fundraising from a business standpoint, because the business show and that's a business within itself. So what lessons did you learn as far as fundraising and what is some techniques that you know you use to improve your your fundraising over the over the course of time.
The first thing I learned is that people don't donate for pity. They donate for things that they feel like make them happy. It's like it's like like you see those commercials all of the time that they used to have where they show kids with flyers flying around their faces and stuff like that to try to make it create an imagery of Oh, you got to reach in your pockets and help them right now. Well, that, in theory,
is the reason why that stopped. You notice that campaign doesn't run anymore because people give, like I mentioned, for prestige and validity. Majority of our sponsors have never been here. The thing that I realize that they're investing in me, in my vision, and they feel like like the parents feel, y'all come here one day during dismissal or if y'all come here one day when the young scholars are coming to school, y'all are hit of parents dropping them off
to you, Jalen, we know you got them. It's the same thing with fundraising. I'm donating to you because I know that you're so committed in this. I've seen you spend your time, your energy, your money. So I'm in theory donating to you because I know you're going to
do the right thing for them. And the other thing I learned is that a lot of times trying to ask people to donate for something can be challenging if they're not from Detroit they don't live in Detroit and they don't have kids to go to school in Detroit. So in other words, you have a school that's ninety nine percent black, but a donor wall of businesses and companies and people that are probably ninety five percent white.
So that dynamic is one that you navigate and you're really grateful to those that support and now my goal is just to put some more zeros on them donations.
Yeah, So even that, like the fundraising process, people, I'm sure there's people are like, what do you need to raise funds for?
Right, Like you're the same reason why Michigan need to raise money.
So like Michigan been raising money since the eighteen hundreds.
And so like they can see the tangible things like, oh, we built this new wing, so like can you talk.
About they feel like we got enough?
Exactly.
That's because they feel like y'all got y'all got heat, right right, y'all got a building.
So that's why I'm trying to say that this a coss associated with actually running a school, Like there's a lot that goes into it. Can you talk about that? Because obviously you said the HVAC that's a real issue.
Correct, And in Detroit. Because here's the thing. A property like this, if we were in Chicago or New York, we could take over a facility to be worth one point eight million dollars ten years ago in the same building, but now be worth three million. Well, in Detroit, that's say one point eight billion dollar building. Now it's worth one point three appreciation. Man, you see what I'm saying. So that dynamic affects everything that you do. It affects
the enrollment is just not as many people. It affects the teachers, the talent pool just isn't as plentiful, And it affects the donors because it's not as many people that live here or care about what's happening here. So what happens is that becomes a trickle down effect for
everything that we're trying to get accomplished. And the idioticy of some people makes them think, oh, they see me like I ain't a billionaire, you know what I'm saying, Like you heard Chris Rock, Like Shaq Rich the person that writes shack check is wealthy, you see what I mean. But what happens is sometimes people see us, oh, y'all got enough good, we got running water, you good. You
know what I mean, We gave you enough. And that's where I have to come in and make sure that our fist fight as much as possible for all of the support that our scholars are gonna need to chase their goals. You never have enough money, never have enough money. And I love y'all shirt's assets of aliabilities because one of the biggest misnomers about successful people is that we can both walk past the same thousand dollars pile they
gonna fight you for it. See a lot of time, the mentality is the broke person thinks the rich person ain't gonna fight them for that thousand dollars. But the reason why they rich is but because they keep stacking those thousands of dollars. Like now, we don't value change. So many times in the day I swear to you, I walk past pick up this quarter, it's good luck, it's good luck. And then before you know, I looked down the email like, oh, uesp don't want to do
what cool? In my mind? That creates a domino for opportunity for good luck. And so that's what I'm hoping to get accomplished it.
Speaking of ESPN, so we recently chopped it up with AB shot out to him no doubt, and he said something that was actually pretty profound where he said that most athletes they struggle when they're done playing because the opportunities is very short for them.
Right.
It's like, unless you're a sports broadcaster, which very few people can be a sports broadcaster, there's not a lot of opportunities. And he was like, not a lot of people stay relevant their relevance he dies. He was like, he's able to stay relevant. It's a whole different conversation, but long story short, Yeah, you've you've been able to be a sports broadcaster, but not a lot of people
have been able to be sports broadcasters. So talk about that, the transition from being an athlete to no longer playing, your transition to being a broadcaster, how that's worked, and a lot of your peers that have not been able to transition as smoothly as you have.
AB's my guy and he went to Central Michigan, and I've been following him and supported him and had love for him for a long time. And the one thing about being an athlete is it becomes of what have you done for me lately? Career? If you're a singer, or you're a financial advisor. You could do shows or manage money in theory forever. You can do that to your thirties and forties, your fifties, your sixties. I was just playing golf. Well, I guess I missed the ball
five times. I do a't considered playing golf, but I was out there at an event with Jack Nicholas. Like he's in his eighties, he can still play golf. As a basketball player or as a football player, at some time, there's going to be a shelflight to what you do. So there has to be a plan of appreciating your position,
like Rick Ross said, applying your promotion. And I started working on my set career when I got traded from the Pacers because radio TV finn was my major in college and in Indiana, we were going to the playoffs. We had one of the best records in the league and dah da da dah. But when I got traded to the Bulls, it was February. They had nine wins, Like, we ain't going to playoffs. It's my team right right, I'm like, we ain't going to the playoffs. I literally
reached out, I had did one oh six apart. I did b T mad Sports. I reached out to contact I had there and I pitched the idea to let them have me cover the finals for them that year. I was like, I got a spot in LA. I think the Lakers are gonna make They just won championship, like I think they had Shaq and Kobe. It was killing. I was like, I think the Lakers gonna be in. The Lakers are in for sure, y'all should let me cover it. All y'all gotta do is send the camera.
I'll get the access. I'll do all of that. Lakers made it. They played New Jersey nets at the time, and I did everything interview, Shaq interview, Dezel interview, Jack interview, everybody, cut and spiced it. They played it on TV. Soon they played it on TV. I recorded it and I pitched it the best damn sports show. And they hired me so while I was in the league. Like we see Draymond Green, my little brother doing it right now, but imagine it took like twenty five years for another
player to do it while they were playing. I already did that. You see what I mean. They hired me while I was in the league, and so from two thousand and two or three to two thousand and seven, BT, Mass Sports, NFL Network, MTV Movie Awards, Top Rank Boxing. Like, I was doing all of these gigs while I was still a twenty point scorer in the league. So when I retired in two thousand and seven, I'm trying to figure where I was gonna go next with my mother
time media career. I ended up choosing ESPN because it's twenty four seven, three sixty five sports, and that's where I ultimately landed. This was my twentieth consecutive year covering the finals on TV, and so like being a part of the multi media space and trying to keep myself relevant. It's a score of the game and it's a game of life. And the one thing athletes have to learn is it's only like ten people that the rest of the world really cares what they accomplished, you know what
I mean? And in America, to be honest with you, society tries to make us feel like it's only ten successful Black people like you. Ain't you ain't you ain't what is you done? You ain't nobody? You're a loser, like a loser, what I mean? Hold up, mother, you know what I'm saying, how black cart down to the dentists, Like, How'm a champion in my life?
Yeah?
But what ends up happening is it's like, if you're not Michael Jordan, you're not jay Z. The society makes us think it's only ten successful black people, and the relevancy you talked about, that's only it's not relevancy. Actually it's visibility because just because I'm not on TV all of the time, I don't mean I ain't somewhere breaking bread doing what I want to do. Hav an entrepreneur pursuits. Look at a junior Bridgeman, Yeah, yeah, like he's been
an elite businessman forever as a former NBA player. What I'm Denny Johnson, Jamal Mashburg, same thing, Jamal Mashburn. Correct. And so what ends up happening is those stories don't get acknowledged, but they're happening. And the reason why they don't get acknowledged is because those dudes ain't pumping chess. It's all talking about.
They just like collecting the money, you know what I'm saying, Like like dice game, it just collected the money, right, And so that to me is actually been an amazing thing for me to still work in multimedia.
After playing or wild playing, because it then drives the opportunity for me to fundraise for j LA, the opportunity to keep a visibility that now gives me an opportunity to change things in my community. That's really the thing that I appreciate about the opportunities I've been giving.
Yeah, so from the business standpoint, let's start early.
You said when you were in college you didn't know what your credit score was, so they probably the education wasn't there. But obviously throughout your career you've developed it. And so you've had two careers, right, You've had the professional one as an athlete. Now you have a professional one as an analyst and a producer too. Who's the fab five thirty to thirty was done by you?
So what's that like?
Because we spoke to Jamel Hill about negotiating contracts. I know it's one thing for the sports, but from this side, this is this is this is a new thing.
Are you hands on?
Is you keep the same agent when you're going through this process or how does this work? I'll fire you in a minute.
I had a couple of agents as a player and I've had a couple of agents as a media personality, and one of the scariest things about being talent, as we're called is that some of the most important conversations about your career happened but you're not on the phone, y j. Just think about the dynamics of that. You hire an agent, they're talking to the network, they're talking to the team, but you ain't on the phone, and so you don't know what they saying about you or
if they even representing your best interest. So what ends up happening is what I learned to do is I have an amazing team of people that work for me. I'm i am not who I am without my team. I got the best team, but I need to know what's being said cause it's too important. So yeah, yes, I'll still have personal relationships with the people I'm negotiating with.
I'm still talking to them, I'm still communicating with people that work on my behalf because it is a different game, it is a different space, and also the media hates when you don't conform. Like Lamar Jackson right now, he negotiated his contract with the Ravens. At some point when you hear him talk at some point when people are talking about his contract, they're gonna say Olamar doesn't have
an agent. I remember he was coming out for the draft and they were like, well, it's hard to get in contact with No, he's not his mama's representing him. You want to contact anybody, you could call a MoMA. He ain't hard to find. What it is is he's not traditionally paying the system to get him paid. He's bypassing it. I'm gonna be on the phone to talk about my money in my career and they don't like that. They hate that. And that's why you going into a
season as a four MVP without a deal. Deshaun Watson how many games he won for the Browns.
Zero can't play the first twelve most money ever for a quarterback.
And it deals back to a bit. So this year gets one of the cellar.
They're going to take care of him because he's talented, is the point. Lamar has already shown us that. But since he's not feeding the system, it's a little tougher for him to get his bread. And so that's what I learned, is that even if you're unorthodox and you're not necessarily just like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, okay, okay, okay, then it could be a little more turbulent. But you need to stand on the table about your life, your business because we only have one.
How do you feel? So we spoke to Jamil Hell she was talking about women.
I love Jamil about Yeah she's from Detroit.
Yes, she was talking about the difference between.
Now she represents the city. I loved Jamil. Yeah, she she put on for the city.
So she was talking about the difference between women and men in sports. And her husband who went to my high school. Yeah, good DUDEO met him in La too. Yeah, she's talking about the differen between women and men's pay. But I just thought of something just in this moment. Actually, you see Tony Romo. He's excellent. He's actually excellent in he gets paid over there, but he gets paid a lot of money. I think who else Tom Brady got offered the deal before he even.
He's still playing Troy Aikman.
Uh, these contracts that they get in is crazy football. They're like baseball numbers.
McAfee.
Yeah, I haven't. I've never heard of her. I might be wrong, but I haven't heard of any black sports analysts or black players having that same type of even steven A when they was like how much he got paid and it wasn't really that much compared to other people in that space. What is your thoughts on that, because that's something that nobody's really like. I said, I never even thought about that until this very moment. I've never heard anybody bring that up. But I don't know,
seems a little off to me. Most of the sports are dominated by black athletes.
And for steven A, who's been able to establish himself as one of the best at what he or we does, he's not quote unquote considered a former athlete because he quote unquote didn't play in the pros. And so I've said this, I would make more money in this game based on my experience and based on my education. If I wasn't a former player, I would make more money. And what has happened in sports. If you have the word quarterback attached to your name in football, it could
be Pop Warner quarterback. You could get top dollar.
For your job.
Basketball players, you ain't seen it. When it's time for that multimedia space to get paid in football, it's oh, it's so much money in the game of course they're gonna pay Jane or John Duck. It's money in basketball too. And another thing you don't see, and this is something that I hope to be a part of, is us now being our own multimedia conglomerate where we actually own the content, where we're creating the shows, where we're now
the infrastructure. You're still working with the system within the system, but that still hasn't happened. And especially for people that look like me and you and those top dollar game changing tracks, you ain't seen it for a former basketball player.
No, I'm trying to even think of a black football player. No, definitely not football, but what and you but you just said, why.
The only former black football players I see working in the media or who Michael Vick.
Ray lewis the quarterback quarterback backs? Yeah, Michael Vick.
They got RGI three at ESPN Archie three.
He just got into it absolutely, And so they're starting to trickle in now. But what has happened is to his point, like the market has already been set. And so for me as a form, I'm the only basketball player still to this day, and I stand on the shoulders of my brother John Sally, who brought me in former Bad Boy og when he was a member of the Best Damn Sports Show. And I remember Jason Williams of the Nets.
Jason Williams, okay, that Jameson.
Before he had his issue. He was also working with NBC. And those were two people when I was in the late nineties thinking like, dangn that's dope. They in the league and they working in the media. So I kind of asked them for advice and what I should do and stuff like that. But still to this day, when I started doing Numbers Never Lie with Michael Smith and
Hugh Douglas. That was in like twenty eleven. That was the first time since The Best Damn Sports Show that a former basketball player was featured on the Monday through Friday show. That's still the case to this day, like on Deontay Water to this day, to this day. And I'm not talking about like an NBA show. Of course you're gonna have some basketball players on an NBA show. I'm talking about like a variety show like Jayda and Jakobe is a variety show. You look at the show.
I got Immortals behind Me, got the Ali Summing, I got Harriet Tubman, I got Nipsey like that's a variety show. Still to this day, the only basketball player featured on the Monday through Friday show. So these are things in the industry that I hope to change, that I want to see change and I welcome and so I hope that that's happening. But it's already been established almost how it's going to be, So it's hard to cut through.
Look at if you look at the faces of the announcers the Playboy, if you look at the look at the faces of the hosts in basketball and football. You look at the faces of the announcers in basketball and football. You look at the faces of the people that break news in basketball and football. Even though those sports are majority black, we're verly we're underrepresented in the areas I just described.
And as you're saying, I'm thinking of the names that I'm hearing these lyrics from.
It's either the Chefter or it's Wojo for basketball.
And everybody's number everything, even like Mike Breen or you got Jim Nansen football. I'm just thinking of the names as you're saying it. But I mean, you're in media, right, so you do have Jailing and Jacob and then you have jailing.
Versus everybody, so you have the media. Yep, is it?
Is it the expansion gonna happen to because obviously that thirty for third that you did, I mean you were producing that, So there's plenty of other stories that can be told.
Do you vision yourself and your team.
Telling more stories and having more of a you know, like a handle and trying to shape narrative and change this?
Yes? Yes? And the thing that has changed from only having linear opportunities on television to now having these digital opportunities that before everybody was only in the rush to be on TV. But now you realize based on the digital space as we now do this show, like, there's so many successful properties that aren't on linear television because they're being now funded digitally and you can put them out socially and you can put the clips out and then you can now create a career in theory without
being on TV. See when I started doing this, you couldn't have a career without being on TV because social media didn't exist, right, And I hope that we're starting to see more diversity in a couple of the spaces that I mentioned. But I've been saying this for twenty years. To be honest with you.
I also just thought about something in this moment with media. Sports is the only feel where players are critiqued every single day, Like if you think about it, there's not daily shows that it's like critiquing actors. Shows as critique and musicians like you got the breakfast though, but they're not like every single day their job is into break down every part that Drake has.
Correct outside of politics, right.
Politics, But every single day there's sports critique, and sometimes it goes a little too far, like Skip, he goes too far sometimes, I think, in my opinion, he goes too far away too much. Yeah, definitely.
So I had to tell him about itself too.
Yeah, yeah, what you tell that?
I know that he averaged.
In high school.
That's a classic clip. I really that was. I was on my care risk one and the teacher he taught us that he kept a disc record for everybody in the top ten in case somebody he ready for a body shot. He ready for a jab, and I was. I was ready for the same thing. I was ready for a face shot, a jab. I was ready for a knockout punch, you know what I'm saying. And that and that's what it has to be. And so also as we talk about like the athletes and media also
acknowledge this, who are the experts? If I have experienced at something whatever it is, and you don't, and we have the same information in the same knowledge base, that makes me the expert. That's why if you notice when you're watching certain when you're watching it don't even matter digital, linear, and it don't even matter what you're watching. The person that's getting paid the most is asking the person with the expertise.
The question, yeah, the commentator, get gain, tell us what you saw, get gain?
And then this athlete sometimes becomes disposable or turnkey because we're gonna get somebody else that just got out of the league. This is the expert, right, but we now need that person to be paid as such. That's a despair that that's a discrepancy that's happened in multimedia for a very long time that it's obvious to see.
So do you think that what's the responsibility for journalists too, because they walk a lot of dead lines in sports, Like what do you think the responsibility is between doing a job, critiquing somebody, giving your opinion and going too far.
Going too far as when you're calling Chris Bosh Spice.
M hm, that's too far Spice. Like from the Spice girls heard that? Who said that?
You mentioned the name right right, So that's going too far to me. And it's a real distinction. If you're from the hood, you're gonna appreciate this. When you call me out my name is when you go too far, we'll.
Talking about Lebron's son.
And like I told him, every time you talk about Ronnie, I'm gonna talk about you because he don't deserve that. Like I'm a son of a former athlete that I didn't know. Like him and his father have a terrific relationship. Lebron has been very open with allowing the public into
his life. We know who his wife is, we know his kids is, we know where he lived, we know like him, Chris Paul Steph Curry, like certain athletes do an amazing job of being a dad, a husband, a brother, a son and all of that in front of everybody. Like that's impressive to me. And what crosses the line is when you calling me out my name. You can say I was over twelve. You can say that you don't like my game, you can say that I'm don't deserve to be an All Star, whatever you want to say.
But when you start creating nicknames to call me, that's too far.
That's like the west Brook. Then he says west Brook. Yeah, you're talking about the Hall of Famer.
Yes, because you don't have to disrespect me. It's nothing when you when you call me a name, all you're trying to do is disrespect me. Yeah, you know what I mean, and get some And here's a peanut gallery thing. Also, you're trying to get some key keys. You're trying to get so you're trying to create a name to get them to laugh at me. So now what if I come for your job?
Well, it's a president that's been said. Remember Romeome, you got smack put hands on camera.
I remember that.
That was the legendary moment that was he asked him to stop and he said he said it like three more times.
Yeah.
That was crazy.
Yeah, And so to me, that's that's that's the line of going too far when you're calling me out my name. And now with social it's even more intense because even if I'm cool with it and I'm like, it ain't no big deal. My brother, not my family, ain't my kids not. So now I still gotta come for you, bro.
I even I didn't like. I didn't like the way that steven A. I didn't like the way that he took the Kyrie thing because I felt like, all right, if you don't agree with him getting a shot, which was inconsistent because he actually had what's McCauley as his NFL player the year, Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get the shot either, so there was an inconsistency in that. But the way that it was almost like he had something personal against him, like I mean like that to me and we met Kyrie,
He's actually a really cool dude. So I thought that that's something that is dangerous too, because it's like you got a lot of extreme people and like when you're fueling a fire and you never know, somebody might take that and run with it, like you know what I mean. And I felt like that's something that's not responsible to kind of put out there, like it crosses the line between being a sports and list and being a personal vendetta.
But it also fuses, like you said, like somebody who's not in the right mindset, like what happened with Chris Paul at the playoff game. They feel comfortable touching his mom, that's an issue. Or like when somebody's saying West Brick in front of his family and they just came to watch it. Get me right, Like, you don't know what that one take that you had to try to get labs to try to get raised has now done on a personal level to somebody's family.
And you're calling me a name more importantly, so other people will too, right, So you're giving me a tag now, and as somebody who's so very grateful that his name has become a common name, nobody knows that better than me. A name is a symbol like that. That's not a shotgun decision. When you're gonna name your kid after somebody, that's a nine month everybody get to chime in on the name of the baby, parents get to chime in, siblings, grandparents, grid,
that's not a shotgun. That's not a one night stand decision, you know what I mean. And so when you're calling me Box Spice, you're saying it so everybody else will too. That's my true problem with it. You're trying to get me a tag. So now I gotta defend myself because if I don't, then now everybody's gonna think that's cool. It's almost like social media. At some point you gotta just block.
People, yeah, or you can't defend yourself right right right, because if you do, now you know this person has an opportunity every day to say it, and you're not gonna get the opportunity to say because you got to focus on the craft.
I'm not judging people that do. I just joined Instagram maybe three years ago. At first I wasn't gonna join. I'm sure my age matures. You know what I'm saying. It ain't both that. You know what I'm saying. I'm like, all right, everybody, you gotta joint. You gotta joint, you gotta joint. And the one thing I noticed, and I never do this, and again there are other people that do this, But if I post something, I ain't about to argue with the people in the comments. I posted it.
I said it, and I'm gonna stand on it. I ain't about to now get in the comments and be arguing with everybody about what I just said. I'm just not gonna do that. And that's the same thing that we have here is if you're calling me a name, you're disrespecting me, so be ready for me to pour receipts on you. And normally in these cases, and we're talking about one point four, he didn't handle it well when I pull his receipts. He didn't handle it well.
Because usually if you're a junior playing JV, that's almost like a.
Bully, right right, So, but but now if people say that to him, right, he'll be mad.
Still at me.
Because I put it out there. And that's how the athlete feels when you do that to them.
Yeah, those are your own medicine.
Yeah, that's the fact that is.
Well, before we leave, just one one question I got to ask you. I don't like to just do top five, it is kan generic, but I want to ask you this, who is the top three college teams? Because you want a legendary team. You want you want a legendary team, top three college teams, and that could be for just talent, a loan or impact or whatever however you want to I've.
Never been asked this.
We've had this, we had this conversation.
So okay, okay, so my top three can excuse themselves.
No, no, he got it.
Well, the Fab five is in there. That's one, of course, U N l V.
What's your l J Stacey og Man championship year? The year any year? Okay they now they lost to do but that they had two years they won and they lost.
The year they lost the Duke I was in Anderson I was. It was in southwest Detroit and Anderson Hunt's basement with full U and l V gear on and like you and the five five lost. Tears came down my eyes. I never knew that I'd be playing against Duke the next year in the finals. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. Fab five running rebels. I mean, I love DC Syracuse teams.
Okay, so let me.
Sherman, Douglas, Stevie Towmson.
You want to throw a couple more, you want to do five? Just around it, all right, let's do five?
All right? All right? Okay?
Because Georgetown, which one.
I was gonna go to one before Patrick Patrick, Edgie williams wing Gate that squad.
Yeah, so that's like the eighty fourteen ye and.
I mean that Carolina squad with Jordan's Worthy, you know, so.
All yes, go all right?
Got it?
So all right, that's that's the sort. What I said was for what impacted me personally was you guys, of course U n l V. Of course North Carolina. But the different North Carolina team when they had Vince Carter agreed Jamison.
Yeah, but see they're younger than me. Yeah, they're younger.
That's why everything is.
Yeah, how impacted.
Remember at Coda Shaman Williams Knocktart so.
Are you ready for this? Mac Tar played with Tim Duncan. At wake Forest he played with Rashie, and North Carolina played with us, and that's what I got. Yeah, it was he was so Larry Brown was my coach with the Pacers. One year in pre season we actice at Carolina. I went to campus the first time I seen Rashie, Vince Carter, Stackhouse rocking Michigan gear on campus at Carolina, and they was like, Dean Smith, love you dog. They took me to Carolina's I guess it was the athletic facility.
It was a picture of me hanging up shooting the ball over Bobby Hurley. It was it was like Dean love you. I was like, well, he ain't love me, not let me win that champions you know what I mean? But I love them too, like like squads after me, like players at Like when I say after me was like after I was in college. Bubble Chuck for sure.
So that was my name. So like for me, it's moments in time. And I got that same feeling that I had when y'all got was playing, when Allen Iverson's playing. But it wasn't just Ai. It was Victor Page, also Pages.
Lefty Strong, you love him. It was love Y again.
I love also Della Harrington, Chunky Piston.
They had like four NBA players on that.
But the conversation, Carolina was to the conversation we had was who was the most you said, I said the ninety Kentucky You said, Duke. They never said I would never say that's not true, all right, So if I did say dude, you know that the conversation was.
The most talented basketball team. And so we talk of talent.
There's no more there's no team that has more NBA players than the ninety six Kentucky team.
That's a fact.
There's not even that's wall Boogie, that's Blessed Mercer ninety. They beat Otil and they Ailson was at Ohio State, heard his knee and trans Kucky. That's what they had, Antoine Walker and Colder and no no, no, Antoine Walker, Tony delk Walt to McCarty, uh Ron Mercer. That's five NBA first round players. Squad first round you.
Had, like guys off the bench. I think it's.
Got How do you measure that impact in the league though.
Now that said talent, that said talent, that's different.
What about the Kentucky team with wall Boogie.
But they didn't win Bladtae, they didn't win.
They did, they didn't win.
And then the net so that the Duke one was yo, that ninety eight Duke team that lost to Yukon are not just super Corey mcghetty, Melton brand trains your LinkedIn like that that team.
Where you you talent, you gotta measure them about what they did in the NBA also on them.
That's so then you name it better than the Kentucky one. I mean they got eight NBA players. That's tough to do.
Bro, that is crazy.
That's tough to do.
That is crazy.
That's tough.
Yeah, they didn't have the same cultural impact.
Now I didn't have a culture impact now they I mean Patino was a coach, he probably has more impact on the game than those guys.
But you know, Sideat was also who.
No doubts, just saw him at the posts when the Celtics was playing.
He was the best one on the team Korea.
Watch career watch for sure, but Derrick Anderson, had he not get hurt, probably was At.
I mean equally as talented. My mercer didn't really pan out like we thought.
But yeah, there was a crazy talented team and that that really set the stage to Cale doing the one and done thing. They beat you mass that's at the stage I know said that's new row, new role on Marcus.
I used to padilla, Yeah, head guard.
I usually that's when you used to I used to like literally vhu like vhs at all the games. Like the last time I did that and it hurt my heart was the ninety seven Championship.
I'm a Kentucky fan.
That's why you said Jamal Masher, I'm like, oh, yeah, I love him and Travis for it. That's when I start like, oh these monks so y'all. You could see like obviously that but the impact was big, but they lost to my bibby in Arizona.
One. I can't I can't do this no more. It's too emotional.
But I'm glad you pulled my coat to that Kentucky team having hey pros. I slept on that. That's true. That's what I do.
You know, I have a career in sports at some point.
This is what we know.
We do the sports thing all day every day.
Yeah, I did have the five jersey with the bulls. And my daughter's middle name.
Is Rose Lessons.
But we'll talk about that. So it was gonna be jailing, no joy, it was gonna be jailing. But her name is Jordan. But you can see why.
You, Michael Jordan, get the edge every now and slightly.
Oh nah, appreciate you, brother, Thank you.
I appreciate y'all. And the number one thing I appreciate. First off, I'm a fan of y'all show, and there's nothing like that in the marketplace. We need more intelligent, responsible brothers that have the pulse of our culture, but also how the respect of our people. So I thank y'all. And then the other thing, I want to thank all y'all for actually coming here. See Detroit is one of those places like you gotta get on the airplane. You see what I mean. It ain't a part of yall
normal route. You see what I say, y'all have to look at the schedule, like when we're going to Detroit, sous. But you see what I'm saying.
I think I like about Detroit shouting. My god can shout out to chill, you know, but Detroit real solid dudes, Like I feel like it's like old school. It's like the old school, like you know what I'm saying, Like heavy integrity, like and they just good dudes, you know what I'm saying. Like everybody that I met from Detroit is real, like just real cool, real play, like real solid.
Yes, you know what I mean. Like when y'all come back, depending on what day it is, I love to take you guys out and show y'all around a little bit for sure, done and done. Let me know when y'all gonna come back. I know we're here on the Daylight Tip and we're talking about j R l A educate the community, but.
We got too, so we do events all over, like we did a big event in Atlanta that you definitely have to do a done.
Let me know done.
Anything that you want to tell of people before before we rap? How can they donate to the school actually.
So the JR lad Trade dot com for more information about the school. We're open enrollment with tuition free with public charter in in our twelfth year of operation. Right now, I have a capital campaign where I'm raising ten million dollars to expand our facility so that we can have a state of the our collegiate gym, so we don't have to have rotating teachers. We can have a couple of more classrooms. Trying to create a holistic space for meditating, praying, yoga, stretching,
and counseling. And so this school is a community hub. When the pandemic happens, we open it up as a voting site. We feed families, We presented an opportunity for people to get vaccinated. So this is a labor of love for the community. So I'm grateful that you guys can't.
We're definitely gonna put the link in the description and we're gonna donate as well, because you know it's inspiring to see what you're doing. Thanks, So keep up the great work, brothers.
I appreciate you. Man.
Love there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, that's a rapper.
Daln Rose y'all.
My graduates from my school being force back drop drop Mike drop back drop.
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