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Drop Thanks, drop, Mike, drop drop. All right, guys, welcome back e y L. This is a special episode for us. We are in lovely Los Angeles and yes, so anytime we get a chance to connect with entrepreneurs is always a and a pleasure. But this has backstory to it and we love the backstory. So Mark Cuban shout out to Mark.
Yeah, the first of our billionaire editions.
The first, the first billionaire to come on off platform. And he when he came on ey L, he spoke about a company that he invested in called Twisted Up, and he gave the whole story, he talked about the founder, the well and fast forward a year and some change, we are interviewing the partners of that company, Twisted Up,
Noel and Ace. So not only are they the first company that have been on Shark Tank, that have been on E y L. Yeah, also I believe the first company that we've had they have hair products right.
In the hair industry.
First company.
Yeah, we had Wade who had some products here, but he's a bar is different.
Way the barber. Yeah you know bro, Yeah, man, you know I met him when I was first starting the Brown Brothers in at twenty seventeen. He was just starting the hair units. Man. Yeah, I didn't get one. Just for the record, Yeah, he's dope the way. Shout out to Wait.
But the hair industry is a billion dollar industry, especially for black people, black women, black men, huge, huge industry. Unfortunately, we don't own vast majority of hair products. The hair industry even though we spend so much money on it. So this is going to be a dope, dope conversation. So first and foremost, thank you guys for joining us. Appreciate it having us.
Yeah yeah, but the introduction, man, So let's go. I'm going to say this right now, eyo, Noble Peace Price twenty four, Make it happen.
Put it out there.
You have it, ladies and gentlemen. So let's get into this. I want to talk about Twisted Up. But before that, I want to just go on too back. But I just want to preface it. So twist it up. You guys have like tennis rackets on your shirt. Oh I'm glad you do.
You have the fish in your pocket?
So that all right. So before we get into the backstory, tell me what this is.
What is this? It was something that birthed out of necessity to help me twist my hair right to wear your hair natural. As you know, as a culture outside of braids, cornos locks, there wasn't really anything that we have that come to wearing my hair naturally. And I was using the competitive product of Cross Bunch, and you know, we get a lot of rap that we don't like. Cross punches like I love cross punches, and if you're going to use one, like I would give one a
shout out. Used New Drag because he's the founder, he's the one that started it, the original, and he's been knocked off and it's just sad. I just wanted something that was a little bit better, more hygienics, and that can clean, fits in your pocket. Then you go to a club and they say, take off your hat.
Still look good.
My hair is maden. But I wanted to figure out how to do my hair something.
To go to the club with a sponge.
Don't it, don't do it. Don't gonna patch you down? Like what is that? Bro? So I just wanted something that was sleep, something that can be clean, fits in your pocket, and I didn't have to replace it as much.
So all right, how did you come up with the idea? Because if you're listening order you can't see it. It is a the best way I can describe it. It looks like a tennis racket without without a handle.
Yeah, it's your shrinking man, it's a it's a small tennis racket.
So how what do you Yeah, it looks like it could be like a badminton racket for table tennis.
Yeah. Yeah, I was using a tennis racket for about three years to do my hair. So you were walking around with a tennis racket. I bought three of them. I had one in my car, one in the gym, and one of my girl's house. So no, this is this is actually how we met. So how did you get that?
I love entrepreneurship because it's all about innovation and innovation things that people. You got to have an imagination to be an entrepreneur, right, yeah, so, oh I.
Can't take credit for that. Bro, My cousin. My cousin came in with the tennis racket. Like, bro, it was an after midnight conversation, probably had one too many, you know, something gave me came in. It's like, bro, did you know that you can get your hair twisted with a racket? So can you can you show how do you do this? Yeah?
Bro?
You can you just pick out your hair or just literally just go in a circle and it just makes these twists. Man, Like it just twisted up. How your hair twisted? Right now? Yeah? From an afro to a twist. We got before and after shots. She can go on YouTube. We got a bunch of videos that show about it, and it's just it's just crazy, Like, uh, the story is just man. I mean so like you're like a real right.
I used to teach for Yeah, I used a real tennis racker, so like you're going to stores with the racket, like you're going out at night, Like I'm gonna have a racket in my car, and.
So I had one in my car. So like when when we first met, he was like, Yo, we were playing basketball.
I was giving them buckets. By the way, reference.
He was like, Yo, how do you get your hair this way? And at the time, I was toying with the idea of drinking it. And I was like, bro, like I'm going to tell you this because you're cool, but you can't tell like nobody right because I'm trying to figure this out. He's like, all right, what what is it? You know, we went to the locker room.
You put the like we was doing like some illegal stuff locker room, real.
Quick tennis racker, bro. Because for me, it was a necessity, man, Like I I wanted to wear my hair naturally and I was tired of putting the texturizers in my hair and I just I wanted my hair to be done, and it worked, like in a minute, two minutes, my hair was like done and for a culture without my
hair being short. I've never had that, Like even picking out my hair hurts, right, I've never had a way to just to take off my hair, take off my hat and just so previously for you to get your haird to that you have to do it yourself and twist it. Oh no, I sponge used to sponge the thing with the kids using Yeah, my only thing is that when it's in the gym bag or it's everywhere, like you ever just thought, like since the dawn of time, Like,
have you ever seen like a black sponge? Like the reason why I Crows sponge is black is just because of heides the dirt. And again I'm not talking like messing the company, Like I love the product. Without it, I never would have created it, right, But I just needed a better mouse trap for me. I was replacing
it way too much. I was spending somewhere north of like thirty to forty bucks on my haircut every two weeks, and then I was spending anywhere between ten and fifteen dollars on a sponge every ten days so in a month, I'm spent one hundred bucks on my hair and it's just crazy.
When they do it in the barbershop, I'm not sure if it's the you know, the most.
Hygienic thing to do, right, because it's like, you get a cut, they put the sponge in my head.
My son gets the cut, they put the sponge in his clean the United States, every state has a fine for reusing it. In the state of California, it's a two hundred and fifty dollars five.
So you can't use So if he gets a cut, they have to use a new one for me.
Correct. If they get caught we using it, it's a two hundred and fifty dollars fine in the state of California. Every single state has a fine.
So all right, yeah, because my son doesn't use this one, he just picks his hair out use it before.
No, So bro, I get you one so the house appreciate it. So this is like the new afro pick. It's the modern day afro pick. Afro pick, but it gets you. The curls at the top gets you. That's to look at everybody wants.
That's kind of yeah, that's kind of I think it was like a Nick Young like Swaggy pe when he had it like that.
And then I think Usher his album.
Yeah, yeah, the fade, all the all the ball players have their hair like that. It's like, how big can you have it? Now?
Because I see some dudes ins like it.
Probably want to like they see.
Some of them when they that long. No, you don't really. When it's that long, you don't have to maintain it.
But when you got hair like our size, Like if I have an afro and I go to bed, I'm gonna wake up and it's gonna be half my hair gonna be.
Put this long enough, you'll turn in the dreads.
So starting point, all right, so let's get into this story. So all right, you have the idea.
You you realize that it's not the most efficient thing to have a tennis racket. You have the idea to shrink it into what.
It is now.
So what are the steps because a lot of entrepreneurs have ideas, but getting it off the ground is the hard part. What are the steps that you took to take the idea from your head to a product?
Ready? Ready? Your secret? Google? Okay? Google? And YouTube? That is it? I am not I'm very good with numbers. Anything that I would give myself that I'm like great at. I'm not an engineer, gole. I googled a YouTube like the hell out of it, and what happened was that I was trying to figure out a way how to shrink it. Nothing came up. And right after Shark Tank this before I was on, I was just watching it. This show came on, like how to Invent something and
it was talking about three D printing. I was like, what the heck is three D printing? I go to Google what is three D printing? It talks about you need a cajar. I was like, all right, cool, go to craclists cadars for hire. What is that? What's a cad draw? A cadrew is? A cajar is like a digital image that will give to the printer a three D printer that were allowed to print whatever you're trying to like do. So it's like the blueprint for the
three D printer. So I go to Craigslist and I try to find a cad draw for hire and I interviewed like maybe five or six. I vibe with one. I tell him what I need. He tells me like, YO, give me the dimensions. I give him the dimensions. I go, I wanted to fit in my pocket, in my back pocket. Can't be this big, has to be a little bit smaller. Send it to him, paying his money. He sends me the file. Then I go to google three D print shop near me, and I find a print shop near me.
I go, we print it out, go to a tennis racket store, get it handstrung, and then done. This was made in a three D printer. Original original, the original, original, the original one is this big bulky one. I still have it. It was handstrung. They first like what two thousand, the first like two three thousand cons were hand shrunk. Yeah, so handstrung looks like actual tennis. Actually instead of having the stainless still wire mesh, it was actually like handstrung in a tennis shop.
So like if anybody's ever played tennis, if you haven't, that's like the wiring deck correct strings.
And so you switched to standless steel why because I couldn't scale and it was costing too much. So initially I never wanted to turn twist it up into like a business because I didn't know how big it could be. And I wasn't going to leave like a six figure job to start something that I thought was very niche right. It was for African Americans, African Americans that have hair, that want to wear their hair a certain way, like
how big is this market? And it wasn't until my barber gave me a call and said, yo, I just got fined. If you don't turn it into a business, I'm going to So then January of twenty seventeen, I did a hair show on Long Beach, sold out. Then I went to Browner Brothers, sold out, did Barbican in March, sold out, and then the Connecticut Barbara Expo in April sold out. And after I sold out out four shows, I just turned off the foust and Willis did the
mortgages and made this something. These are the top hair shows in the country by far. For like, if you're trying to do like any type of barbering show, I would say the last three for sure. Definitely Barbican in New York. It's a great platform. I love it, Connecticut Barbara Expo, and Browner Brothers. If you're trying to do anything for the culture.
So the initial barber that you showed you had the was it this prototype or were.
You No, it was it was the actual action. Yeah, I can send you a photo of it, bro, it's or a video of me using it. And they knew, like, this is it, this is gonna be Genie. Yeah. He was like, yo, you you I just got fine. Bro, you gotta you gotta sell this and if you don't sell this, then we're going to have a problem.
So I did it, so you had to you want to go No, I was saying you had kind of breezed over.
But you had a six figure job, you work, you.
Had real estate, real estate, the mortgages. Yet a lot of.
Times people think that, you know what, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur. I'm gon quit my job and.
I'm gonna start this journey. That wasn't your path whatever, it was never my path.
Why did you take that route?
My mother? So god, hey mom, don't hate me. Yeah, you know I'm a West Indian right, So, like, academics are huge, it's very huge, and uh, you either go to school or get out. So when I decided to drop out of college, I did not know what I wanted to do with my life. But I know I didn't want to live out home with my mom because I didn't want to be told with to do that.
Dynamic just didn't work out. I feel like every man gets to a point where they it was like, stop telling me what to do, right, So my fear of going back home drove me. So I was a server. I saved up enough money for me to move out and never go back. And then I had a goal and I was like, yo, before I hit twenty five, I want to have one hundred thousand dollars in my bank account. How can I do that? Work three serving jobs, live off one save the other two. So I did
that more than I wanted a party. I did that more than I wanted to buy Jordan's. I did that more than I wanted to hang out. Like I had no life for two and a half years, and I saved one hundred thousand dollars. So by the time I hit twenty five, I had it in my bank account. And then I ventured off to real estate and that was that was my principal, like I will always have X amount of dollars in my account, but the rest
of the money is for me to experiment. And as I started gaining this confidence that to try new things. I just kept doing it, so I would never fully quit anything. I must have cash flow coming in. So it's the same thing with Twisted Up. Not until I did four shows and sold out, I wasn't gonna just go quit, but I had some money that I can go figure out and test the waters and see how
did I can make this? So all right, when you start the company, how much money did it take just to get the company off the ground, and what was your what was your first initial push as far as marketing, I can tell you this, Without Ace, this is probably gonna have been as big as it is because he worked for me for free for a year. Like let's talk about that.
Yeah, I mean, we didn't know it was gonna be this big.
It was just one of them things where you know, like you got a best friend and you got somebody that got an idea, and every time he's just like, hey, you know, I.
Got this coming up, or I got a video, or at.
One time we had no units. We was in a warehouse till I am. We had to sneak in the warehouse and work in the warehouse till like two am, four am.
Like eight pm to two am shifts just to make enough units just so we have enough for the shows.
So you guys know each other since like childhood or.
Twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen, sixteen, twenty fifteen, Yeah, somewhere around there.
So when I met him at the gym, that was when like was was just getting started.
When he was giving them buckets.
Yeah. Yeah, we want to change this narrative right now. All right, So but like north of a hunch k one hundred k, north of hundre k.
North of one hundred k, So all right, so you start with six figures from your own personal savings. Yeah, and that's to actually manufacture it in bulk.
By the moves. The patent was expensive, say mark was expensive. Yeah, all right, So what's the process of getting something pattern? So when you when you apply for a patent, you first obviously need a lawyer, and then you need to know what lane you want to go down. There's a design patent and then there's a utility patent, and both of them have two different functionalities. So a design patent
just protects your design. A utility patent there's an actual use, right, so it can be written vague and anything that falls into that description regardless of what it looks like, it's still is going to infringe on the utility of your patent a design. If I had a design patent and this will circle and you came out with a square, you're not infringing. You change the whole design. I have
a patent on what the what it looks like. So based on the education that was told to me by a lawyer, I decided to go down the utility patent because I wanted to make sure that no matter what it looks like, that I am protected. And then once you go down that path, then you have to do filing, and it just it takes a while. It takes I mean close to two years to get a utility patent published. So you got to have patience and you got to have a good lawyer because it's it's a lot of
back and forth with the examiner. So you're going to get maybe after I say, like eight months or a year, you get an examiner assigned to you, and then this is like back and forth between your lawyer and the examiner telling you, oh, this is too vague, or this can't be done, or so forth. And I got a lot of back and forth because my patent actually written
was a tennis racket fell underneath it? But my lawyer was arguing saying that there's never been any proof that a tennis racket can be used to twist your hair. No one has ever used it, so you could still be able to push this. So we had to change some lingo just to get it granted. But when it did, I was protected.
Yeah, I mean even from the parent standpoint, I'm looking at it like what qualifies as a tennis recket?
It needs needs a handle.
Correct, right, But also a tennis record is for the play sports that correct, and it's it's a proof of concept. So the examiner was saying, well, a tennis racket exists, so therefore you can use it to twist your hair. But a tennis record was never intended to twist your hair. Utility for it was never to use to twist your hair. So you take my comb and now all of a sudden you use it for a strainer or a cheese
grater or whatever you want to use it for. You know what I mean, Like, you're not infringing on my patent because my patent is for hair. It's a completely different utility.
Very specific, correct.
So like now you're protective.
Somebody tries to make this design.
Any any any shape that encloses a woven material that is usage twist hair, you are infringing on my patent.
We come from New York.
Oh yeah, I know.
You got a great story about the city of New York. We got a lot of salons, a lot lot. Can you tell us about your trip to New York?
You know, I love I love New York. But again, to any entrepreneur, you can probably relate to this. Uh it's your baby. This is my first thing that I've ever created from scratch, and to see it get knocked off, it started to affect me. And as a man, I couldn't just I couldn't look at myself in the mirror, and I was having a conversation with face and uh, what's the name of that movie taken? Taken? Yeah, I will find you. Yeah that speech when it's darted and
I will kill you. You know, there's a certain skills that you know when you wanna find you and like you don't want to, so like I went on, I went on a mission. Man, I went to New York. Was the first stop. Shout out to every single person from the bottom of my heart that DM the page told us like, hey, you know, here's knockoffs here, here's knockoffs hair. And when I landed in New York, I just didn't know that. You guys just have a just
so many beauty supply stores in one area. I thought I would be driving a lot, right, So when I got a location, I would go to that location and I'm like, Yo, there's like thirty other beauty supply let me just let me just walk into these and see if this store has it. Chances are maybe another ten percent here has it. And I would just walk in and walk out and try to find it, calmly, have a conversation with the owners, let them know, hey, I'm not after you. I'm just trying to figure out where
this is coming from. I had to collect the evidence, and once I ended up collecting the evidence, I ended up, you know, soon four main distributors for a non disclosed amount that we won. So you're pulling up on people, Yeah, I put I put up on I don't even know how many.
Shout out to the people out here in Cali too, because there was some knockoffs down in my area too, and people going to the store and Hey, you know this store is coming, so you gave you the papers and.
Yeah, was over one hundred stories in New York City. No, just in New York, New Jersey, in North and South Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Texas, Michigan, California. I went to over one hundred stores in three weeks.
And you're handing out ceasing desist letters.
Ceasing ceasing assist letters, confiscating the knockoffs. Letting them know what they're doing is violating a US trademark law as well as a US utility patent law. Feel free to contact your lawyers. I am going to be starting a class action. I don't want you to be involved. Just let me know where you got it from. So you got a class action lawsuit. I wanted to start one that was that was my thing. I wanted to start like, yo, you're selling something that is you're infringing on the United
States trademark and patent. I wanted to start a class action, but I don't want to involve you guys. So to make this easier so you don't get sued, I would just delist you guys. Just let me know where you got it from.
Walking in the stores handling the season and desist letters, hoping that everything goes well.
No, we got cops called on me.
Cops called that's what I'm thinking. How I mean, you're in New York, so like you're taking things off the shells. Like, now y'all can't sell this same more. This obviously probably wasn't always a smooth process.
No, man, we got we got cops called on me, uh maybe like ten twelve times, and it was and the cops said, you know, you can either do it or you know you can face the law. And when the cops came, they still gave me the product because you're breaking the law. Like I'm not trying to be a bad person, like you did not know that you will breaking the law. You now know. I can't normally leave here and let you still sell it because you're going to be breaking the law. You now are aware.
So give me the product, sign this letter you won't be sued, and let me know where you got it from.
And so you find that that part out right, You find out who's manufacturing, who's the trip and it now there's a lawsuit going towards them.
Yes, so that's the beauty part. And I want everyone to really understand this. A lot of people say that I pending does not protect you, and that's only like half truth because it does. So if I send you a letter and I say, hey, my product is pending, and you continue to sell, you're not breaking any laws because it's not granted. But you have been informed that I have a pride for a patent and it's pending.
If it does get published, I can come after you for damages when that letter was sent to you while I was in the pending process, because you were informed that there was an application and you may be breaking the law that gets granted. You chose to roll the dice. So the beauty thing about it is that again you have a great lawyer. The distributors that were bringing it into the states, they all got ceased to assist letters long before I did the tour, long before my patent
was granted. So because I had evidence and it was dated, all of them had to pay. Where do you distribute said it into the states? Where are they coming from? Just so how well, yeah, so, how how the beauty supply chain works. It's like lead distributors, distributors and beauty supply stories. Right, So there's a big guy that we sells to, like these distributors that sells to, like the
beauty supply stories. So all the knockofs were coming from obviously Asia, you know, China and somewhere in Korea, and they would just ship it out here.
So you received damages.
Yes, yes, yes, And a lot of people just think entrepreneurship is like it's my life and it's there's a lot of work, but that's part of it too. And it's like, you know, you have to be able to understand the law. Yeah, you have to have a good lawyer. You have to you know, right, lawyer? Can I get my lawyer? A shout up? Yeah, what's that? John? John D. Tran Patent Law Group, John D. Tran shout out to you man. I love you very much, thank you for
all you do. Was he based out of Irvine, California? Okay? Yeah me my law group r H E m A. He's going to be a lot of business. So but not And that's it.
That's another like revenue stream too, Like I'm saying you can potentially can play running on that. So it's like find entrepreneurs it's not just a matter of just loving your product and selling your product and market it.
You got to protect it and be willing to fight protect it. You got to be educated. You got it. That's all part of business as well. It's a lot that goes into business. Yeah, that's It's a lot. So we when do we start? What's the big moment?
Obviously we got the shark tingm but you guys will make the money for Yeah, so how do we start making money? We go in the barbershops saying you got to test the sell. Do we get a store, frond? What are we doing?
How are we getting into people's hands?
Oh? Man, again, I don't know. I just I just got to give shout outs to people because I can't I can't take full credit for this. Right. I'm listening to uh Gary Gary Vee, and I'm trying to figure out my first year we did one hundred and fifteen thousand and sells, but we didn't make much in the price point on the actual with taxes and shipping is twenty four ninety five straight to your house and you never have to replace it. Come to a thirty day
manufacturer warranty. And you know that was all day bro. Never got to replace it one time by all day all day.
Those are the sists.
But I was trying to figure out, like yo, I did a lot of traveling. I went to the East Coast a lot, and we did a lot of hair shows. And I was like, Yo, this is a lot of work for a little bit of money. Like I gotta, I gotta make a pivot. And I'm listening to Gary Vee and he says a thing that like, yo, if you are an entrepreneur and you're not doing Facebook or Instagram marketing, you are creating career suicide. And I was like, all right, let me, let me google and YouTube how
to do this? And I googled on YouTube how to do this? And my first my trial run was like one month, and then my first at back my first two months. We did three hundred thousand dollars in two months. Wow, just doing Facebook and Facebook, Instagram ass bro just it blew it, blew the ceiling out of the water. And then China shut down. Everything was made in the United States except the wire mesh. It was coming from China.
And then China had a pollution and I couldn't get product for like two months, and I decided, you know, I want to go on Shark Tank. I want to see if I can actually get a deal and get
the mentorship, and I got rejected. I once went back, the second time, got rejected, went back the third time, got rejected, and then the fourth time when I showed up, I didn't even have to pitch because the person that was interviewing me, her coworker, used my cone and he knew exactly what it was, and he was like, you're going through so what's the process to get on Shark Tank? And there's so much that that we can't say, we're
not allowed to talk about it. You signed a lot of like the nbas of the process, but I would tell you this. I think there's like fifty thousand people that apply and maybe like eight hundred get callbacks, and then out of that maybe like three hundred gets to actually pitch, and it's not called the deal show. I thought this just like fully bs, Like like I thought epould have got a deal, got the air, but like, no, that's not the case, bro, Earners, what's up?
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They have to air some people that don't get deals, right, So you're not guaranteed to air just because you have a deal. So even if you get a deal, you still might not get on television, correct, Which again I thought it was just total bs coming kyo. How how are you going to have these these people that are worth millions of dollars, invests hundreds and thousands of dollars
in the company, and they don't get the publicity. But you have Shark Tank, which is a TV show, and then you have the business side, which is two completely different things.
So boy, so going on Shark Tank, you can't talk about the offer because that's public right, correct?
So what was that? Anybody that didn't watch your episode? It was two hundred and twenty five thousand for fifteen percent two.
Hundred a quarter million for fifteen percent of your company. And that was damon John and Mark Cuban.
That was the offer. That's not what I got. Yeah, you give So what ended up being negotiated was two hundred and twenty five thousand for twenty five percent, twelve and a half to Damon, twelve and a half to Mark. Oh you you wanted fifteen they wanted. Yeah, I value my company just over a million. They gave me in just I think nine hundred and something thousand valuation. But I wanted the mentorship. And again I'm very big on culture. To get Damon, to get Mark, I couldn't.
Yeah, you like went into it with that those two in mind.
That's all I wanted because I knew Robert was going to go with it because he wouldn't understand the product. I knew Laurie may like it, but she wants things for the masses. And regardless, no bad beef. But like I believe you got to be able to have a conversation. I don't feel like me and mister wonderfer where ever get along. So yeah, I'm just being honest.
I want to come to you for a second because we spoke to in a while. He was doing real estate. He's making six figures, but you worked for free. So I'm interested in seeing what you were doing during this time while you're not making any money from twitterelve to say, you know what, I believe in my friend, I'm gonna do this.
I don't care what it takes.
Like.
Like like job wise, what I was doing, Yeah, oh man, I was doing. I was doing and everything kind of just depends on the month or the year. But I was coaching basketball. I model on the side too. I was refing basketball and football, and then I was working at the Boys and Girls Club, So I was kind of just you know, bouncing all over the place really and then the free part. You know, I never even really asked for no money. He just kept he said, hey, man,
you know we after Shark Tank. You're gonna get a pay raise, but you know I want I mean, when you when you have a like an entrepreneurship, if you can have like somebody by your side that can, you know, do the dirty work and get you know, anything that you need, you need that it's kind of like a basketball team that start player that's gonna just get down and dirty and not care about the lights and not care about the fame. And that's kind of how it happened.
And then we just ended up here like I look up like four years later, I'm like wow, Like we.
Went on Shark Tank.
Like it don't even feel it, don't even feel like it because I'm just here just for the for the you know, partnership, and just because that's my bro.
So everybody has a part to play.
It's like Ben Wallace like, you know, yeah, made it to the Hall of Fame, rebounds like you know what I mean, defense Dennis rob Dennis Robin. You know, everybody's not a scorer, everybody's not gonna be a superstar player. But you need people to do different things to win a championship.
Plus, when your mind is right, when you're doing it for the sake of.
You know, you you you really love your product, or you believe in someone else's product that they're rocking with, like the sky.
Is the limit.
But if you're doing it in the sense of we're gonna make X amount of money, or we're gonna go on this TV show or we're going to do this podcast, then you're probably in entrepreneurship for the wrong reasons.
Facts.
So going back to this Shark ten conversation, all right, you get the deal, a quarter million, twenty five percent of your company, All right, Now what happens the next day, like when you actually start working with the guys.
So this is why I feel like I think Mark really vised with me because when I got it right, well we got the deal. It's stuff to do the diligence right. So they go through your I don't know if anyone's ever been audited, but like I don't advise it like it's a it's a headache. They comb through like your financials to make sure what you said, what you represented was true. Oh, they can do the deal and still not do the deal correct. They have to
do their due diligence. So it's just a handshake. So then they go and they take your your twelve month trailing you know ebit, of your p and os, your cash flow statements, and they come through it and they make sure that what you said was accurate before they give you that money. So after we shook hands and got the deal, the money didn't hit my account for like maybe six or seven months later. But when it hit my account, I like tear it up because it's
it's real, right. I tear it up for like about a day, and then the next day I sent him an email and I was like, yo, like I have an obligation to pay this back to you, Like it's not I haven't made it yet. There's no like whatever y'all need to do, Like the mentorship starts now and we have the conversation. Daymy and I have the conversation. We talked about the strategy. We figured out what we were going to do, how are we going to execute,
and where we're going to spend the money. How much money is being allocated to marketing, which is very huge, like cost of acquisition is. I don't care what product you're selling. It could be a very good product or it can be a horrible product. There's a lot of people that have great products that make no money. There's a lot of people that have horrible products that make a gripload of money. And it's marketing. It's how are you going to get customers onto your your product, how
people are going to see you? And if you have the best product in the world and no eyes, you're not selling nothing. So what was your marketing strategy? Uh, you got to figure out how to have that conversation with our with our customers. Right. So my demographic depending where I'm selling, right, if it's barbers, if it's beauty supply stores, or if it's to the culture, I have to figure out what makes them click and buy, and for the culture, it was providing something that was funny
but also educational. And when I did that, my best performing ad your eight is me dressing up in a lab coat Yeah yeah, and explaining the difference between a sponge and a haircomb, right, and it does way better than any influencer. It does way better than any celebrity shout out, and it just works better. So that's me listening to my audience. They want to understand the difference. They wanted to be educated on the on the process,
and then they wanted to be funny. And once I figured out that little snippet, I just kept pumping the ass. That was like that and it just sky's wass a limit find information.
So after the first year that you've now got the investment, how did did sales take off?
Like he had no life? Yeah? Man, that was.
Working.
Yeah, we were working.
Man.
We couldn't keep up with demand. So Ace and myself and one of my other boys would be in the manufacturer after the manufacturer ran our units and after hours to run more units because we just needed to keep
up with Man, it was it was insane. We went from three hundred and thirty thousand to like one point two in a year, like a three hundred x growth, and the next year double that, and it just keeps on growing and growing and growing, and I'm just very grateful to have this experience in the mentorship.
What was the process of finding a manufacturer, I know that was early on, but what was the process?
Well? On YouTube, man, there's a university again. Yeah, man, there's a there's a there's a website that I found on Google called thomasinet dot com and it's a manufacturer craigslist. It's pretty much just operates like Craigslist, but it's for manufacturers, and you plug in the material, you plug in your zip code, and it spits out in a thirty forty mile radius, how many manufacturers are around you. And it turns out where I lived, I live in a manufactured hub.
Never knew this, Santayana, Tustin. There's like forty different manufacturers out there. So I was literally like a drive and a skit to talk through these manufacturers. And I just interviewed about ten to fifteen of them, vibe with one and be figured out. They took the wheels, they figured out what they were going to do and for me, My biggest thing is communication that I don't I mean, price points important, but it's not the all ends. Like
I have to be able to talk. I have to be able to like when when things go sideways, that guy got to be able to get you on the phone and we need to have a conversation. I need to know why you didn't meet that deadline and I need you to have an open and honest conversation with that. So as far as the mentorship, you know, what is it riceless? What is it like?
Because you know, obviously it's very rare to have a billionaire as a mentor a business partner. So what is some of the key Jim's jewels that you've taken away from working with Mark?
And what does that mentorship look like? I mean, there's no secret sauce. He will always say, just work ethic right, which I've always had. But watching how he moves and no matter how much money he has, Mark stays humble, like the fact that he still gets on the phone or on an email and has conversations with me outside out of twisted up about other venues. Now that I have money to where to park it, what to do? Like what are you looking into like it's it's crazy.
And the thing that I take away most from him time is money like time, Like he has all these companies, but yet he has like these people that you talk to that represent him to help solve these problems. And if you need him, he's always a phone call or
email away. But like, when you start to grow, you want to start to have your money start working for you, right, and when you are a billionaire, like you have so many businesses, right, you have so many revenues of income, like you want to make sure that you power other people, correct, do different things to keep your time free, correct, like thanks, Like there's there's no way that I could still do real estate and mortgages, but I didn't have my boy
as because Twisted Up would take up way too much of my time sending two or three hundred orders a day, Like how am I supposed to do that? And then still argue with an underwriter? So is it just you too?
Is there a bigger team?
So as far as that on every day operations, it's me him and then my CPA, and that is it, bro, that's it the Big three, the Big three, And it's an online business. Bro, you run like a two million dollar operation, and it's crazy because everything is automated. Fulfilment center is automated right the whole soe he takes care of that, right the orders that go out, he takes care of Instagram, He runs the Instagram page. You keep producting in the warehouse or it just goes from both.
So how we have it steppt out. I mean not to just break down the business, but there's a wholesale side, there's a retail distribution side, and then there's directed consumer side. Directed consumer side is all automated, so all handled by some type of f ffilment center depending on what location you're ordering from. Whole seal is a little bit more personal, is automated in the house, so he handles the bruntwork
of that. I handle the orders, I handle the cells, and then he packs it and ships it.
So scaling what is some for you moving forward and scaling and kind of you know, taking into the next level.
Again. I was just say, getting the word out right and understanding the customer and figuring out where the brand needs to go. It's really sad, right, not to get too deep in the subject, but like it's twenty twenty one right, I believe too. What was it two years ago? Three years ago? The guy that got.
Uh yeah, that was that was two years ago.
Yeah, like two years ago. A guy that was wrestling for a championship couldn't wrestle because he had to cut off his dreads. And then yeah, and then there's a there's a girl, a couple of African American womens that lost their jobs because they refused to cut off the braids. And South Africa too, they had a girl there.
For a while, I was like actually like doing research and like you know, posting on a page to like spread awareness because I feel like that's our kind of like niche like we you know, we're for the culture.
So yeah, and it's sad that like it wasn't until like twenty eighteen, like maybe a handful of states passed a hair discrimination lifeeah yeah.
But yeah, but like I said, even in black countries Jamaica, there was okay with a kid got kicked out in school because he had dreadlocks. South Africa, a girl had an afro and she got kicked out of school having an afro. So it's not even just in white countries, it's in black countries as.
Well, and what I found out as I started traveling to the East Coast, especially with the women that choose to cut their hair and wear it short and wear the short and natural, there's a journey behind that, Like they they start to have like this self love discovery, like and it's it kind of brings you like emotional right, Like it's it's they find who they are, they accept who they are, they love who they are, and they're not going to change it for nobody, And all of
a sudden, they have this new found confidence and the same thing with guys. And that's why I'm saying, like, what you guys are doing, like this is why I just look like what Eyola is doing. There's you're hosting a show where you have people that look like us. I have twisted hair, my hair is natural, and I'm
out here making money. I'm a CEO, and you having people that like it's changed in the narrative of what braves conroles African Americans, what that looks like, what that means for us to make money?
Like it it's empowerment as well, because it's like like you said, people, it's a way to keep people marginalized and to it's kind of like another form of oppression to supremacy, where it's like, in order to be beautiful, you have to have straight, straight hair. In order to be professional, you have to have a low hit. Troy, I'm holding on for their life, Troy.
Yeah, dictate the man, stop it fall.
Long time it was that the Michael Jordan man.
You know what I'm saying, growing hands, grow up there, you know.
Get the hoop airing.
But yeah, for a long time, it's like for men, you have to have a fade, you have to have a low haircut, you know, in order to be quote unquote a professional. And when you say about it, it's like, why can't you be a professional with his natural hair with an afro, with twists, with dreadlocks, with braids, Like what makes that unprofessional?
Correct? And you're you're dealing with a society where outside of this culture, right, they can wear their hair however they choose to. I have one style, low right until this hairstyle came out low right, and again I just started traveling to the East Coast. As a culture, our style gets appropriated, right, the way we talk our music all that. But the one thing that you can't appropriate the one thing that you can't mimic is our hair. It's our hair is unique to us. They've tried it.
See have you seen Have you seen the video? I've seen a few videos, the one in the waves. No, no, no, no, the Asian dude. Yeah, well he got he got the waves. He got the waves.
Even see your cone rolls, keep your scarecrows.
Yeah, it's crazy.
I wake up in the morning, I'm gonna go put my hair on.
Like Derek had the braids. It just became always so exotic, you know, But that was just braids. Like you know what I'm saying. It was like whenever somebody of a different ethnicissity does that, now it just becomes such an amazing look.
But for us, it's a necessity. It's how we wake up and go kiud without that. The coaching knows we have like an hour before maintenance. Sleek cute right now.
You mentioned the East coast. What do you mean by that? You said you're traveling on the East coast, vib on the West coast.
I mean back when the when I was using the tennis track and then using like the comb to twist my hair like this hairstyle wasn't really like up and coming on the West Coast. Okay, so when I started the company for Fledge in twenty seventeen, like on the East Coast, this was huge. The style was big.
But you'll see it like when they are in the comments when people would talk like, oh on the East Coast, like we've been doing that way before.
Way before. The West coast coast. Get catch things late sometimes, you know.
I have my hair like that once upon it I think it was high school Mike maybe.
But it was weird because when you had an afro, like you just had it again before the twisted upcomb. If you had an hour thro you would just pick it out. It wouldn't be messy because your mom won't let you have it messy. Your mam would say, hey, I need you to pick your hair out.
But now is that also switched right between the older generation and the younger generation when the older generation still thinks that this is like a nappy messy look is unprofessional, and the newer generation is saying no, like it's it's professional. This is this is who we are. It's just how my hair looks.
Yeah, it's it's a broader conversation that we definitely have to have because it's like even when Chris Rock did that documentary Good Hair, Oh yeah, and you know it's like I said, it's billions of dollars that's spent.
But then the psychological is what to look like psychological.
Aspect of it is and people destroying themselves, putting chemicals in their hair and all kinds of stuff where you don't even know that the long term effects of what you're doing to yourself just to look a certain.
Way facts and black women have it the hardest. Man. Yeah, they have it the hardest. And it's it's sad. And I have a niece and it's just to like see here, reach for like the other doll with straight hair versus the doll that has the afro. Like it's it's like okay, like why and it's just you just look at the television really just try to sit down and like program this and you turn on television. All the girls that are on television got straight hair. Yeah? Are you do
market just to women? Also? I do. It's another market that I'm getting into. It's I want to do it right. That's my thing. Like I don't want to disrespect them. I want to do it right. I don't want to be the guy, the black guy that's speaking for women, right. I want to make sure that whoever I get to sponsor that side of the company, they do understand the journey. They do understand the self empowerment, the movement that they're doing, and like God bless them man.
Like it's I'm thinking now, because like we've been to curl Fest. Out to the team over that curl Fest. I think this would be great. A lot of women have natural hair, short hair, they want to have the curls at the top.
My sister in law has that haircut. So I'm just like, this would be great.
Yes, And now I even did a movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah she did. Yeah, she did Napoli. Ever after she did in the movie, she cut her hair off and grew it back.
They call it like the big chop.
Yeah, the big chop.
Do you have plans in taking this international or do you already have an international?
Yeah? So we got we got some oh oh yeah, all right. Shout out to the jumpers man. Man.
So the similar way kind of how I jump with no weel how he was doing this thing and I'm helping him out, like we would get tons of supporters on like I geology jumpers.
That's your community, that's what you call. I just anyone that has a vision and you jump, no question, know whatever. Like you, I'm gonna ride.
With you, like I know, like ride or die.
Like That's why I call my entrepreneur spirit. Like I have an idea, there's no like questioning if it's going to work out, if it's not. What if this happens? What if that? I just just jumped do it?
So a guy he actually is in New York, Leon, shout out Leon. He was just supporting us. He was like taking pictures of the comb. He would, you know, just just vouch for us, Say hey, I need some combs. You know, he's taking into his barbershop. And you know, like a year he went by and me and Leon have a relationship, and I'm telling Noel, hey, you need to look at this guy Leon. Like this dude, he's
taking pictures for us and stuff. So not only was I employed, Noel ended up employing Leon as like our professional photographer to do you know, product shots and stuff like that. And then he took he took the comb to Guyana and what and he's from there and he got his own comb. So it's just like this, but it's green and on the cover it has his own
face on it. But he took the comb there and started talking about entrepreneurship there, started putting into the barbershops there, and I thought that was like a real thing, because you know they say, like Gez, I put on for my city, like he really peeping on for his country. So the fact that he jumped and was able to get a sally from this and able to you know, go back home and teach people about entrepreneurship, I think
they have it. And there's just one store. They just built the store and like he was a partnership of that store.
I forgot the name of the store.
Yeah, but he was a partnership of that store getting built and the combs are being sold out of that store.
Bro. Yes, we're in Canada, we're in Guyana, and we're a little bit in Europe, not as big. I did a hair shout there by myself, and the market's massive. Where was the hair shot at In the United Kingdom, it's called like Afo Beauty or something like that. In the UK. That was another story for another time. And but I flew out there by myself and.
Going places by yourself.
Man.
I mean, like I said, I'm a jumper bro. Like, at the end of the day, what's worse than not trying is regret.
That's the drawing quote. I except not trying, I can accept failure. I can't except not trying.
I cannot look back at fifteen and be like, Yo, I wish I would have done ABC. Like I can accept losing everything. I can accept failing. Like what you just said. What hurts me the worst. It's like, did you try your hardest? It's like a game. I can I'm okay losing the NBA Championship if I played it because I tried. I tried my best. There's nothing I can do. But like if you like yo, man, I wish I would have practiced harder, maybe I would have won. How many times you get these opportunities?
Right?
So going forward, do you have plans on expanding the team and hiring more people.
Yeah? Like I said, for the brand, I wanted to embody the journey, what the women are going through. I want the twisted up to similar to how Damon built his brand for us by us right, this is a product that allows our culture to twist their hair naturally that was made by one of their own. And the more of us that where our hair this way, and the more of us that embrace just the natural look, you are changing the narrative of how you see the culture.
You can have braves or chronos and be a doctor, be a lawyer, be an entrepreneur, be a successful CEO. And doesn't mean that you're a gangster, doesn't mean that you're a hulem, doesn't mean that you come from the streets. Like this is how I hear, is where naturally and this is who we are, which is why I love your podcasts man, your story or which you guys are doing like your narrative. You're hosting a place where our culture comes on and they see people that look like us,
all ages making money. Like there's no excuse, Man, there is done. You can't use the excuse that I'm black and I can't be successful anymore. I know some have it harder than most. I understand that. But the Internet's the great equalizer and I'm a firm believer in that. Like, if you have access to the Internet, you can change your life. Well, you need his wife, find a dream
is a fact, and you got a living proof of it. Brot, you guys are hosting a new story and with a new young person or an older person changing the life on the internet. Avery, single day, Avery, single day, Wall Street Trap came out of jail, look at him. Came out of prison. Yeah, came out of prison.
Yo, that's a common I mean, it goes to show you that it doesn't matter where you start, it's about what you do with your time and how you finished.
You can't you can't change the cars that were doe to you, but you can definitely figure out how you go to play.
Them, how you can have the best hand what you're deal with.
Facts, and it's about a community and that's what you guys are building. And it's really dope, man. Like, I'm again, I'm very humble to be on the show like you guys are.
You know, this officially makes you alumni.
Bro. Whatever, let it be, bro, I don't even want to give me like a small little life up. Man. It's it's very powerful. I'm not kidding. I hope you guys in the universe I'm putting out that. I hope you guys really win the noble peace price for the culture.
Bro.
Like appreciate you guys are changing it. Appreciate it.
It's just the beginning to like sometimes people catch on the things later, you know, social media, sometimes one post will blow up and or somebody will blow up. But like you could blow up and have money or have followers. But if what you're doing ain't really genuine impact, it's gonna stop real quick.
I'm telling you. If I have kids, they're gonna learn about y'all. And if no one's riding your biography world, get that done. I'm being dead bro, like for real.
Wells traveling.
For real. Man, appreciate that's greatly appreciate it, Humbler.
Thank you, thank you guys for coming in. Man, I really appreciate it. Man, what what would you like to tell the people? How can they follow you? Social media?
Website already above, Yeah, man at Twisted Up t W I S t I t U P. It's our Instagram, Twisted Up Combs on Facebook. You can find the comb on Amazon or our website Twisted upcomb dot com. And for anyone that is an entrepreneur that wants to grab anything from this conversation, don't overthink it, just jump. I'm a perfect example, man. I didn't know anything about stocks. I jumped made some money in it because of you guys, So thank you very much. Watch market one day, Yeah, man,
it's uh, it's dope. And at the end of the day, like you can't be overwhelmed with what if when a you're going to get yours astill to get paid for a year now he's rent card, cell phone is paid for by the company. Like, it's stay down until you come up.
Yeah. That's one thing we always talk about is a effort is worth more than currency.
You put.
You put that effort and everything else will follow.
But trademark that man, I see how you know, bro, I'm seeing how you're not in your head broa that bro, it's effort's worth way more than currency. Man. You can take a million dollars now and not have the education. But you ever see a thirty for thirty. That's why people go broke. They don't know what to do with it. Honestly, ask yourself that question. You want a million bucks right now, tomorrow you got it, what would you do with it? Go back to your habits, you spend it. Yeah, not
gonna change, nothing's gonna change. And then in two years you're gonna ask for another million. You don't know what to do? You do what you know?
We just had that conversation.
Facts, it's it's uh yeah, I was just stealing it because you're gonna steal my quote. You know, facts, Man, got anything to tell them? Man, any advice? Nah?
Man, just just keep it sounds cliche, but just just keep grinding. Man, Just just keep hustling.
And if you feel like it's cliche, then living proof is the guys right in front of us, yourself, and it's the other people out there.
That's all.
We all in the same boat. We all in the same struggle. But just keep your head up, just keep grinding.
Appreciate y'all, gentlemen.
Man Troy, I'll do it for Noel since he didn't say congratulations on your engagement.
Oh, thank you very much. Man. Yeah, I'm gonna look at man. Yeah, thought before you get mad. We got a two and a half year engagement because she's in school, so I'm just like you, I want to celebrate it too.
So this is ours I'm gonna apologize for.
He was a little nervous, so you might have forgot about you. That's an engagement ring. Yeah, congrats, Yeah, I'm being dead bro, Like, that's the first time I've ever seen that. I'm telling I did not think I was going to get married man, Like, I honestly did not think that I was ever going to get married. By my family, my friends can attest to this. Man like I'm happy, Like I'm a better executor when I'm single,
Like I'm happy. And then you think you happy and you find someone bro that like keeps the peace and like it's what you need, Like I'm still in that like happyly ever after a fairy fairy phase. Man, Shout out to uh Mike, my fiance, Grace. I love you so much, thank you so much for all that you do. Man, I appreciate you wholeheartedly.
Yeah, Grace, I make sure it's a big moment, the biggest show. He almost forgot you. Yeah, shout everybody on.
Edit edit that out.
Man.
Shout out to everybody on fishy on dot com that is our proud to pay program. Shout out to all the earners there, and shout to all the earners in e y L University. Over ten thousand of y'all just taking information and applying and executing at a very high level. So shout out to y'all. Shout to everybody that's been supporting the merch. Shout out to the entire merch team. Y'all are killing it. Yeah man, Love is love.
Yes, thank you rock And what's we see next week? Peace? Peace. My graduates from my school being forced back drop drop Mike drotdrops.
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