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matters. The Queen of the Crop, Duke loves wrestling and there is no one that does it better than your house. I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick. Ass and I'm all out of bubble. Welcome back to another wonderful edition of the Devon and the Duke Podcast. This is a limited edition series hosted by your main man. Duke loves wrestling and of course the Hall of Famer himself. For the Devon Dudley. How you doing that Devon? I'm good, good, busy, just doing errands.
Bought me some sneakers today and needed them bad. Man, I was having holes in the bottom of my shoes. Devon can't go out like that. So, so, so we got to ask you this man, what's what's your favorite sneaker line that you prefer to wear? Nike, but I bought some Pumas and some nice skecher. What do you call it? Like track shoes? Really good, really nice. Yeah, yeah, I. Prefer Nike?
Yeah, I'm a I'm a Nike guy as well because listen as as despite the fact that I am a very tall 5 foot 6 inches Steve, I'm a very tall guy. Now I wear a size 13 shoe so even in in middle school I was like a size 9 when I was 14 years old. So Nikes have always fit me better than a lot of the other brands. So I always stick with Nike. But it's funny that you mentioned Skechers. Skechers make some excellent walking shoes. Listen, I tried that shoe on, man. I didn't want to take it off.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's like walking on clouds, man. Yeah. Oh, the cloud was so nice. Yeah. Now do you do the the insoles as well? Do you, do you mess around that stuff? Good. Yeah, good. Surgery, you know, I realized how important stuff like that is.
You know, when you're young and everything works in your body, you know, you don't really think about that, even though people tell you about it as time goes on, you just don't think about it. Then when you have surgery like I did and you realize that the shoes that you used to, you know, that you're used to wearing, you know, doesn't really support you the way you thought it did.
And how much it really depended on the level of shoes that you got, how your back took to it, and things like that. Because you just don't realize how much a sneaker or a shoe can really make a difference in the way you walk and how you feel. The stress that you have on your knees. Again, the stress that you have on your back, you really don't realize it. Because again, when you're young and vibrant and you're out there doing your thing, you ain't feeling no pain. You don't know that.
Great point, great point. It's it's funny, I learned that lesson in high school. I was working at a furniture store and eventually I I worked my way up to being a a sleep technician. So not just selling mattresses, but learning about sleep and its effects on the body and things like that and the importance of having the right type of mattress and what that can do to you, you know, depending on all your different aches and pains and pressure points and stuff.
So because of that, I started paying more attention to my shoes and making sure every pair of shoe I get, I always get a pair of insoles and put them in there as well. And then I swapped those out at least twice a year. You know, same, same concept mate. You got to protect your back, got to protect your knees. It matters, especially as we get older. It certainly matters. So that's that's pretty cool.
That's pretty cool. Now listen, man, you, you, you were able to ride out one of the biggest hurricanes that we've had in in modern history, huh? Yeah. I mean, look, we got some heavy wind, but barely any rain. I mean, there were times before the storm got here, I think we got more rain then before the storm got there than we did when the storm. Came that.
That is fascinating too. But you know what you did say based on where you are down there by Cape Canaveral, that you folks haven't really gotten a major storm in at least 30 years. So I guess it it held true for you where you you just don't get hit with that stuff. Yeah, that was one of the reasons why they built the Space Center over here on this side near Cape Canaveral.
Because of the way for the past 30-40 years, the earthquake, the earthquakes, the storms of the Hurricanes have been coming to Florida. For some reason, it veers away from it. And we did get one back in 2003 where we had three back-to-back. I mean literally back-to-back. I'm not talking a month or two months. I'm talking literally within weeks of each other back-to-back where the first one was OK, it was.
And the second one tore up Orlando real bad, Tore up the beach side of near Cocoa Beach, things like that, and even hit a little bit of Cape Canaveral, but nothing really bad and severe over there. And then the third one that came in barely did anything. So from that point on, I just remember, you know, saying to myself, damn, you know, and that was supposed to have been a big hurricane, but it but it did no
damage. I lost since I've been here in Florida, a palm tree and some shingles off the roof and maybe some screaming. But the position of where I am, it's fantastic. And I feel bad for the people in Tampa on the West Coast side. My heart, my heart goes out to
you guys. My prayers and thoughts are with you because living on that side, although it's beautiful, you know, outside of hurricane season, but man, during hurricane season you are going to have to fear for your life in some aspects or fear for the property damage and the stuff that's going on. It's so bad in that aspect, and I hate that because resting on beachside. Beachside is beautiful in Florida, but you're taking a chance just simply because of how the Hurricanes hit.
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And all that money going down the drain. I mean, unfortunately some folks don't even have insurance to cover against this. You can't even get, you can't even buy nice things and make your house look happy if you live on beachside because during hurricane season, it's going to be destroyed. The insurance goes through the roof.
You know which I mean, you buy beachside property, you got to expect that your insurance is going to be high just because of the insurance companies are not going to take any chances of every time a hurricane comes. They got to shut out all that money because guess what? The insurance company lose as well. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's the, they're not built to be giving money away.
They're there to make money. So, you know, but you know, that's, that's actually a very good question, though. As a, as a pro wrestler, I mean, is that something that you have to disclose to the and if I'm asking a question that that's taboo, then please correct me, but is that, is that something you have to disclose to these insurance company on a personal level? What do you mean disclose what?
That's that's your profession, pro wrestler, because obviously for anyone who knows what the what the business is, just like being an NFL player or something like that, you guys are walking away with a lot of damage to your body. So do you find it difficult to get insurance because of the profession? Well, health insurance, yes, but not so much to the point where it's difficult. It's just that the premium that you're going to pay is going to be through the roof a lot of times.
But again, it all depends on what insurance you get. As far as home insurance, no, that has nothing to do with anything in terms of that. The only thing that can affect you in terms of your home insurance is where you are located that that that affects it there. But as far as health wise, that can be detrimental, especially if you're not with a corporation. Like for instance, me paying for health insurance on my own when I was active in wrestling, the insurance was through the roof.
It was like almost $1000 a month, you know, and it was, it was crazy. Sometimes it was even higher than that, depending on if what insurance you got to remember you want good insurance for your family. So you're going to be paying out your ass. You know, So when Vince is paying you all that money, he's paying you all that money because all the stuff that you got to pay outside of freaking the way you want to live. But once I became a producer for the company, you know, we had
benefits and all of that. It was great. The insurance was 50 times lower, you know, because of the health plan that the WWE was able to provide for you. So I think anytime you have a company that you work for as big as the WWE goes, you're going to get great insurance. If they're supplying that for you, it's when you're on your own and you're a 1099 and they find out what you're doing for a living is what's going to hurt you.
You know that's this is this is extremely in informative, especially for these folks who are just starting off and even for folks who are at the the middle point of their career where they realize they're not getting any younger. In your opinion, Devon, what's the point when you should Start learning how to do something other than wrestle with if you
want to stay in the industry? At at what point should people in their career, should they Start learning how to be a producer or, or or learning how to be a a commentator or, or something else so that they can have that extra skill in their pocket just in case their career is over as a wrestler? Here's what I think. I think it's your start. The minute you get into business, the minute you start
working for a company, listen. Just because you make it to where you are, like for instance the WWE, just 'cause you make it to the WWE or AEW or TNA doesn't mean you stop learning. Yes, you learn your craft and learn how to make your N ring and promos and all that 10 times better than when you came from, but you also have to put in perspective what happens when my career is over? What am I going to do?
2 things behind that, number one, talking to Aunt Anderson at that time, this is back in 2002. Aunt Anderson had a degree, I forgot what he said it was in, but he had gotten it way before he got into the business because he promised his family that he would do that, you know, to have something to fall back on. Now, he had been in the business for over 30 years at this point,
but you know, done what he done. And now when it was time for him to retire, the degree that he had gotten was pretty much no good because you got to understand he did that almost 30 years, almost 40 years before he got into the wrestling business. So whatever whatever he majored in, time hurt him. And I say that because everything that he learned back then is different. Like for instance, I was going, I was going to college for communication and broadcasting.
There was no way back in the early 90s that what I would have, what I got back then could stand up to now because technology changes all the time. You'd have to go back to school to do that. And I remember Aunt Anderson telling me he goes, Devon, I'm too old to be, you know, sitting in the classroom trying to relearn all of that. My mind frame is not there anymore to do that. You know, I'm almost 50 something years old at the time. He told me he was like, and I don't, I just can't.
I refuse to do it. So my thing is, you know, even though you have that degree, you got to keep it active because again, times change. What you thought you had the knowledge of whatever craft you were going to do, you have to keep up with it. Mine was communication and broadcasting. I did it in high school and I was going to college for it. But again, things change,
technology changes. That board that you see in front of you is not the same board you watched or you practice with in college back in in 91 or 89. It just, it's not the same. There's so many new things that have gone on with it. Let me give you a prime example. Look at DJs, you know, you take a term, you take two turntables, you put them there and you start scratching and doing all of that and you make the music from there. Now all of a sudden they don't
do that anymore. Everything is digital. So now you have to relearn everything all over again. And it's hard, you know, for a person that doesn't have that attention span to do that anymore. So that was one thing that was always taught to me, especially by Arnold Anderson, that, you know, even though you have a craft and this and that, blah, blah, blah, you have to keep it up. You have to keep it going because as time goes on, things change and you have to keep up
with the times. And that's how that works. So again, as a producer for WWEI wasn't ready for that. You know, I'm I'm guilty of saying I didn't do that, so I didn't practice what I preached, but I had to learn along the way. Was it hard? Absolutely. Did I make mistakes? Absolutely. Did I have Vince McMahon and John Laurenitis and other, you know, people, Kevin Dunn in my
ass? You know, and then what I mean by that is, and for all you dirt sheet riders, don't fucking take that seriously getting on me, you know, for messing up or saying things wrong. And it's not blah, blah, blah. But again, I had to learn the right way of doing things. If I would have probably taken the knowledge of learning back
then. Because I remember, I remember, you know, Laurenitis wanted all the producers to pretty much, you know, if they have the time to go in there with Kevin Dunn and watch how he produces things. And I never took advantage of that, which I regret now. Not saying that I would have went into that field, but I regret not doing that, not going in there when I had nothing to do or my matches were done early. To go in there and watch Kevin at work and watch how that whole
operation works. I was only on headset calling it to Kevin, you know, making sure that Vince was happy. I never took that step beyond. You have to do that again, 'cause when the entering talent is done, and even if the producing part is done for you, what are you going to do next? You have to keep going. You have to keep striving to see what the next chapter in your life is going to be, whether you stay in that realm of business or you don't.
Sage advice. I love that and and you just clued me in on something that Devon, this show helps scratch that communications itch that you have. Absolutely. Listen, before I started doing, I remember when I first started with WWE and I started doing interviews, I was nervous as hell. I know I messed up a lot of times, but I keep telling like my students, I say the more repetition you do, the better
you're going to become. So don't just be, if you're scared of something, embrace it. Go after it 10 times more. You're going to mess up, but you have to keep doing it to where you don't and you have to feel comfortable with it. So the interviews that I've done, man, I once I started going, went realizing that I said to myself, you know what, I
want more and more. I would call the office and I would say, hey, listen, if you ever want me to do these interviews, please call me. I will do them. I don't care how many. I'll do six in a row and I will get home, man. Thank you, Devon. A lot of guys aren't happy doing that. I said no. I said I am. I want to do it. I want to get better. And that helped me to be able to do interviews.
Or even things like when you're doing a Comic Con on a parent somewhere and they want you to do a 32nd promo, it helps you to do that as well because it makes you feel comfortable on the on the radio or even on your phone on your audio giving the promo or what have you. They want to promote where you're going to be. So it helps out tremendously. So the more I did it, the better I became.
And it was one of those things where I loved it, you know, and now it's like when everybody goes, hey, you know, I'm going to do this interview. I'm going to do this interview with you. If there's anything you don't want to talk about, please let me know now. I was like, no, I ain't going to let you know. I was like, I know how to get out of it. I'm not worried about it, and it won't make me look like a fool
either. So whatever you decide that you want to say, and if I don't like it, I'll know how to get out of it. That's good stuff. That's good. Let's let's keep this train going for a second here because I'm, I'm really, really curious. And we have a lot of wrestlers who listen to the show. Obviously they're on the road. They got to do something in
between towns and what have you. And, and they just love the education that they receive listening to you and, and some of the conversations that we have on here. So, so here's a good one for you. Let me set it up when I was a kid working at that furniture store still in high school, you know, I, I was making maybe 100 bucks a week, let's say right when I got promoted to becoming a sleep technician, which was actually a Commission sales job.
Now instead of being a kid making minimum wage, I'm making Commission and I'm selling 2, three $4000 mattresses. So when you go from making 100 bucks a week to making let's say $2000 a week on average as a kid, you're rich, you know what I mean? But one of the, one of the old timers said to me, they said, listen, when I got my first big check, they said, listen, take that money and put it away and act as if you never got it. Just keep putting it away.
You don't have to pay any bills. You're a kid, you're used to only making, you know, 100 bucks a week and that was good enough for you. So keep it that way. Trust me, over time you're going to be happy that you developed that skill. And it was so true, you know, cuz we also had profit sharing and four O 1K. When I became old enough to engage in that, I was, you know, they were taking money out of the check and putting it towards
that. When I finally left and now I'm in college, I was able to pull that money out and buy my first car and then get my first apartment by myself. So being able to save early benefited me long term in that regard as a wrestler, especially starting off, when you go from that point where you're only making a couple of bucks to when you finally get that first big check, how easy or how difficult
was it for you to save? You got to understand during the Attitude Era, the money was just coming in. There were times where I would take the the paychecks and just stack them up and see how far I could snack them up. Before I could actually put him in the bank. That's how good the times were then. So I can only imagine what these kids are doing now in terms of financially. I've, I've heard rumblings of what the lowest paid guy on the roster might get.
And I think it's tremendous. You know, I'm not one of those, so to speak, quote UN quote old timers that gets bitter because of the money that is being produced now that wasn't being produced back then. We made great money back then. It wasn't hard for me to put money aside. Did I do a lot good? Did I do the right thing with a lot of it? No, I didn't. You know, I had fun or what have you. Plus, you had family members holding out their hands, you know, and feeling sorry for them.
And that's why I always tell my students, I said, listen, if you make it and you're making money, cut off. Don't do not bring these yay OS into your life. Trust me when I say it, the ones that you love the most are the ones that's going to stab you in the back when it comes to money. I'm telling you. That's deep. That's deep. I, I hope you wrestles are listening to that because that's, that's important.
We have some folks who are on the cusp of making it big, and it's funny, I've spoken to a couple of them this week and they've said, man, we really love the show. We listen to it, you know, every week and what have you. This is great advice for you. You know, be careful with the folks with their hands out. Look at it like this, when you were down and out, when you would call and ask to borrow
money, did they call you back? No, you say, hey, listen, my rent is due on Friday and I don't know how I'm going to make it. I'm short like $100. Can you please spot me until I get paid again? There's always when you're going to pay me back and blah, blah, blah, you know, and like, well, call me on Friday. You know, I'll call you on Friday. Did you get that phone call? No, you didn't. You don't owe them anything. That is your family.
They're supposed to love you unconditionally, but they don't. They expect you to do for them before they do for you. So the bottom line is, if Johnny needs braces, what would have happened if you weren't in a position you were in to be able to help Johnny get those braces? What would they have done? Where would they have gone? Don't feel bad and sorry because God forbid knock on something. If you lose everything tomorrow, will they be there for you? They say they will, but will
they really test the waters? Tell them no. Tell them you don't have it, but you're on TV. You're making all that money. That's where you that's where you're gonna fucked up. You shouldn't have said that because now I know where your head's at because I'm on TV and I'm making money. You think I should have it to help you? And the answer is no, I shouldn't. I? I put something on my Instagram that Ice Cube put up and I'm going to try to remember what was said.
You know you're going to get mad at me for not giving you money. I'm sorry. I got bills too. I got kids and mouths. I had to feed. So why am I going to feed your mouth and your kids and your home? But I have my own home to feed. And do you know, at the end of the day, this gravy train is going to stop for me. I'm not going to be able to make the money that I'm making now. So what's going to happen when
that money's gone? You're going to talk about me 'cause I didn't give you the money and didn't take care of you and this and that, but you'll talk about me even more as being the MC Hammer of the wrestling business, losing everything than anything. Well said. Well said. Again, sage advice for all of you wrestlers, whether you're up and coming, aspiring or you're in it, you know, just please you.
You're hearing from a guy who has been there and done that many times over, and he's here to continue to share this wisdom with you for sure. You know something, something interesting happened since the last time we did a show together here. AEW and NXT went head to NXT destroyed AEW Dynamite in the television ratings. It wasn't even close. I mean NXT. Did 870. What's that? You said who destroyed who? NXT destroyed Dynamite. Really. Destroyed them, wasn't even
close. NXT did 874,000 viewers meanwhile Dynamite which my God they did 329,000 viewers. So over 500,000 more people watched NXT. When they had the choice of watching NXT or Dynamite, they chose WWE over AEW. In fact all of the AEW shows combined for the week still did not equal NX TS rating.
That's how bad it is. So I want to get your thoughts on that Devon, because this is this is AE W's flagship show Dynamite. The fact that they got destroyed like that in the ratings, over 500,000 more people watched NXT instead. What are your thoughts? On that, well, it just goes back to what we talked about before. Who's running the show? Who is writing the storylines? Who is producing that show? Who's in charge? Listen, people can get mad at me all you want.
See, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. I'm washed up and this and that. But I've been in this business for 33 years, going on 34. Some of you weren't even born yet. And I say that because some of these people will. These are the people that had wasn't even born yet when I was in these organizations making money and seeing how things work. So yet they're gonna badmouth me, tell them I'm washed up and
this and that. But what I do know is that being around some of the greatest minds in this business, like a Vince McMahon, like a Paul Heyman, you know, listening to them, gravitating to what they were saying, even Pat Patterson, who was one of the greatest bookers in WWE's history and the wrestling business history, responsible for one guy that I know that he owes his whole success, success too, and that's The Rock. Rocky didn't make a move without Pat Patterson. Not one move.
Even when he worked with the Dudleys, you know, we would go over stuff and he'd be like, all right, let me clear it with Pat 1st. And Pat wasn't even our agent. So, you know, it all depends on who's running the show, who's looking. Tony, I'm not saying anything bad about you. I don't have a dislike for you. I actually like you as a person. I really do. But I just think that you're in over your head with some of the stuff. I think you need help.
If you bring into somebody like a Shane McMahon or somebody that's been around the business that knows it, then yes, you can't let the inmates run the asylum. You can't do that if they've never had success on their own in a wrestling company booking, then it should not be booking Get somebody that you know that can help you, that can help with the storylines, that can help put you where you need to be. You are the second largest company in the world right now.
The talent that you have is freaking incredible. I'm, you know, I, I don't really watch a EW, but some of the things I see on social media, I'm amazed. And if you didn't tell me what you just told me, I would have never thought in a million years that NXT would have beat ATW like that. Because from what I see on social media, maybe because I'm just seeing clips and things like that, you know, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, you know, I'm not seeing the whole thing. There's something wrong.
There's something wrong when a developmental company like NXT who takes nobodies and make them into somebody that can beat a company like AEW, there's something wrong within and if you don't fix it, you're not going to be around too long. I don't care what station you got on or what, what have you, you got to fix it. You got to fix it from within. Again, AEW, Fantastic group of talent. Love watching them when I do see them.
But if you don't get the right storylines and things like that going for yourself, it's not going to work. And if that was the case, Duke, from what you just told me, that's that's proof in the pudding right there. You have to have somebody that knows what they're doing. Tony, please, before this company winds up being like another WCW, We don't want that. Nobody wants that.
I'm asking you, for the love of God, to wake up and see what's going on. Again, wise words from the Hall of Famer himself, Mr. Devon Dudley. I love it. And Tony, your, your people have already let us know and I keep saying it on the air. I know you listen to the show. It's a it's a hate listen, but it's a listen. And we appreciate your listening. Tony. We're not trying to beat you up, man. Just you know, in in all honesty, though, no manager can
do it on their own. The the easiest way to fail is to believe that you can do it all by yourself. You need help, bro, and you need real help, people with experience who know what they're doing, not the yes men who are just going to make you feel like you're so brilliant because you're really not. You're not experienced enough to be brilliant at this thing. Get some help, man. But before we go here, Devon, real quick, Rodney Mack just celebrated her birthday last week.
Here's a guy who is in ECW, you know, with his lady Jazz. And they both went on to the WWE. To this day, they're still in the business doing work with the N.W.A. What are your thoughts on the birthday boy, Rodney Mack? How old is he? Oh man, you want me to put the man's age out there like that? Sorry, Rod. Yes, I did. You, you really want me to say good? I'm sure he's proud of it. 5454 years old. He was born October 12th, 1970, fifty four years old.
Listen, I'm 52 and I'm retired because of the fact that all the crap I did over the years, my back said F it, you're done. You've met your bump card. That's it. Every once in a while I get in there with Bubba and do a little thing here and there. But the old Devon I don't think will ever be able to come back again because I'm not willing to hurt my body like that. But Rodney Mack and Jazz Man, I'm, I'm so happy and I'm so happy for them because they're
still going. People that's been in the business for as long as like those two have. You know, 9 out of 10 times people can't walk because of all the stuff that they've done, But they've taken care of their bodies. They've, they're able to go on there and do that. And God bless Rodney Mack for being 54 years old and still going out there and doing what
he's doing. Look, guys like Sting, Rodney and anybody else who's in that realm and who's the guy in NXT that's I'm not an XTTNA, that's playing the Frankenstein gimmick. That's playing the Frankenstein Gimme. Oh, you're you're talking about Carl Oulette. What do they call him? PCO. PCOI was trying to think of the name. I couldn't remember. But I mean, just watching him, you know, I used to watch him when I was a teenager. Yeah.
Yeah, you know, with the Quebecers, I mean, come on, he's still going, still going tremendous shape. I mean, for him, for his body to have taken a beating, especially during that time. Remember, he was there during the Bretton Shawn era and even somewhat during the Hogan and Andre era. So, you know, apparently his bump card hasn't run out. And if that's the case, God bless him. Keep doing what you're doing, bro. I mean, because apparently it's working. He's still active, He's still
going. And I've seen him take some bumps. I'm like, good God, not me anymore. No, no, no, no. I mean, that hurts. I'm looking at you and it hurts, but I remember shaking his hand and, and just giving him a hug. I was like, listen, don't take this the wrong way. I'm hugging you. But I'm just, I'm just happy that you're still doing what you're doing, my man. I mean, I've, I watched you as a teenager, you know, in high school, from 9th grade to senior, whatever.
And for you to still be able to go the way you do that is tremendous. So with Rodney back turning 54, bro, congratulations on turning 54 and congratulations on still being able to do what you do best and do what you love and continue success and many more bumps on your bump card. Well said. Well said, Devon. How can folks listening keep up with you? Well, I'm on Instagram on Testify, Devon, that's one.
I'm on Instagram as well at DDA, my wrestling school that's on Devon Dudley Academy, but you can type in DA as well. I'm on there as well. And if you are ready to become a professional wrestler or want to try your fielding, your craft and you think you got what it takes, come on down to the school. We're right in Winter Park, FL.
We are three minutes away from the Performance Center and you know, go to my school, get pumped out of there and go straight to the PC. I'm not saying that it's a guarantee, but from what we can teach you at DDA, you have you have the necessary tools that will get you the way you need to be. So come on down, give us a call. You can also check me out on Twitter at Testify.
Devon. Don't really go on there as much but I'm starting to relive my Twitter again and not making mistakes in terms of liking things I shouldn't be liking. But no in eindsight loving all of that. So if you want to contact me, please contact me. You can inbox me, DM me, whatever they call these kids call it nowadays. I'll respond. Can't say I'm gonna hit everybody up, but I will respond. And what about the Devon Dudley
Word of the Week? Oh man, I was supposed to, I was supposed to have one ready for you guys. And I said I've been thinking about one all week, and I had one. And I mean, let me see. Let me see. Let me think. I, I know I wrote it down. So give me a second. Let me see what I got. Oh, I got it. It was one I just found today. I'm gonna put on Twitter. Parents, please teach your kids that answering what to an adult is rude. That's my quote for today.
You know, and I say that out of respect because my kids are not allowed to when I call their names, you know? Terrence Terrell, Matthew Preston, Talia Amaya and DJ If I call you, it's not what it's yes. And if you didn't hear me, it's excuse me teaching kids now. The proper way of respect and way you talk to adults needs to be addressed. So if you don't teach them now, you're going to regret it when you get later. Testify. Yes, my brother.
Take it away, Tony Shivani. Mr. Tony Shivani desperately out of time on Duke Love Wrestling.
