You're listening to the Dudes and Dads Podcast. A show dedicated to helping men be better dudes and dads by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling. And now here are your hosts, Joel DeMon and Andy Layman. Chester T. Layman, hello. Oops, I just, I'm, I'm, I'm bad at this today. I, I'm, I can't even get us both on video. This is how bad I am today. You are here though. I can see you right across from
me. Hello, there we go. You're looking, you're looking, you're looking wonderful. Hey, so hi Andy. Hi, Joel. Hi. Hey everybody, welcome to the Dudes and Dads Podcast. Glad to have each and every one of you here with us as we, uh, looking forward to a fun conversation. Lots of moving pieces tonight. Uh, Andy is navigating a whole plethora of, uh, technical wizardry. You can say that again. Uh, so we've got, we've got several guests. We're, we're gonna have a good
conversation. Looking forward to all of it. Uh, in studio, uh, if we can put it that way because that's the way I should put it because it's accurate. Uh, we have our friend and Dudes and Dads, Dudes and Dads, Dudes and Dads Podcast alumnist, alumni, alumna, whatever. Not alumna. Not alumna. Alumni. Uh, Greg Neumeier is with us in studio. Hi, Greg. Hello guys. Hi. Uh, I'm trying, I'm really messing it up tonight. And as, and as always,
uh, Andrew is right across the table. He's, he's dialing in the remote employee, remote employees. Remote, remote guests. There we go. Yes. Those guys. And making sure that they are, I'm trying to get them on. If you guys want to talk, if you guys want to talk real quick. Perfect. And yeah, I'll talk. You punch your buttons and we'll see what happens. Uh, so first of all, the conversation tonight and we're super looking forward to this is a recap of our recent trip out to the grand Tetons.
Yes. Get that French inflection. It needs to sound French. Uh, it needs to sound French and slightly suspicious. Um, because, you know, we had, uh, we had a really great, uh, experience out, uh, out west. And the thing, um, and we had talked about, we had had the conversation with Greg prior of talking about kind of the elements of wonder and awe and kind of the experience of going out into the wilderness and doing this all.
Um, with also in the context of this group that we were putting together, six, I'm going to try 16 total of us. There were 17 of us. There was two. So there's myself and a co-guide and then 15 of you. Wonderful. And, uh, what an experience it was. Greg tried, you know, he does his best to give us the essential details of the trip and give us an outline of what we're going to be looking at, but you really can't know. You cannot know until you go. There's definitely meant to be some mystery to it.
Oh boy. Oh boy. So much prizes along the way. And I want to say, yes, indeed, mystery and some things that I wish had remained a mystery, uh, that have been that were, that were uncovered or whatever brought, uh, brought to the
surface. But no, um, and I, I think I just absolutely want to say what a, what a joy the trip was, what a, what a really amazing experience was for me in particular, because I was bringing along Josiah, my 13 year old son, um, and, uh, having, uh, the rest of you all, um, sort of, yeah, come along on your father-son trip. Yeah. Like, right. I just invited all
these people on my father-son trip. No, uh, that we were just welcomed in and, and allowed to be a part of the group that was from Clinton frame, which is really, really, uh, awesome experience, a major blessing. Um, Greg, I'm wondering just to kind of give some context, uh, really what this trip was about some, uh, we did three hikes and ish and, and some excursives, uh, right. And that annexed trips, little walkabouts, uh, boondoggles, whatever, whatever we want to call them.
Um, when you, when you're getting us ready, uh, to take these, when we're going to take these hikes, these, you know, there are, I mean, the idea is that they're sort of building upon each other a little bit. What is the, um, because I would argue, and as I've told everybody, we did a, a beginner's hike, an intermediate hike and one that, and then one that I don't have a category for.
And, and I, there might still be some for, for those of us that, for our friends that are here with us this evening, uh, there might still be some bitterness over, uh, over, over hike number three. Greg, tell us 15 people who joined us there. We, we, we got five of them to join us. The rest of them are dead. That's why
they're not even alive anymore. No. Uh, Greg, talk just as much as there is, talk to us about the strategy of kind of building into the building, into those things and kind of what you're, what you're hoping we experience as we kind of engage in the, the trip. Yeah. Well, so some people were coming in, uh, some people had driven in like yourself. So that's the absolute best way of
acclimation. You're just taking that slow ascent from Indiana and the plains States up into, uh, North, North West, Wyoming, uh, where we were going to be camping just about 7,000 feet. So, uh, those who had flown in and others who had come in kind of on a shorter, you know, driving in the big thing is you just want to make sure that we give ourselves some time for acclimation. I mean, acclimation is a, is a huge component. I think that that translates
into life too. Sometimes we just want to, we just want to jump into the deep end and what we can end up doing is hurting ourselves that way. Uh, so what we did was our first hike in, um, was a nine, about a nine and a half mile out and back and a relatively flat the entire way. I mean, there's just some kind of some up and down, but we don't really go up into any canyons. There's no mountains at all, but it's along the
Lake shore every time. So we've got Lee string Lake Lee Lake, uh, bear paw Lake and trapper Lake that was immediately the grand is kind of down the South range. You got Mount Moran right on top of us the whole way. And you just get this major sense of, Oh my goodness, here I am. Yeah. And so that kind of awakens this sense of I'm hiking somewhere different now, the bear experience on that trail on the way back. That was exciting too. Yes. Uh, sharing the trail with the bear and deciding,
okay, you can have this trail too. Sir, you can, you go right along your way. We will yield, um, our, yeah. So that's kind of that like, Hey, wet your appetite. I want to make sure, I mean, as a guide or as somebody who's kind of leading things, I want to see if you're capable of the distance. Um, cause at that point you really just have altitude and then you have distance there. It's Hey, we're going to do nine miles and we're going to do it at 7,000 feet. And you just
came from roughly 600 feet. I don't know what Indiana is six or 700 feet. We're at like seven, 720 feet right now. Because we're 20 feet up in this building. Right. We're on the second floor. Uh, so for what I want to see is, can you, can you even just at this altitude, can you do this distance? And I mean, I think we had a good time with that hike and it wasn't, I mean, it, it gets a little sweat going. It gets your juices going like, Oh, okay. I now have fresh air to deal
with in my lungs. I'm going to drink water. I'm going to eat healthy. And even that alone was kind of a stretch for some folks. Um, all of a sudden it was like, man, this is a healthy lifestyle here that I didn't know was, uh, something my body is not used to, uh, that our next hike is, um, well, I'm going to ask you so our people who are joining us, are joined with us. If you guys have anything to put on this first hike, feel free to
speak up. Like how did it make you feel the very first time that we went on that very first hike? I felt like, Oh wow, this is pretty simple. You know, I can do this. It's flat. I did get tired faster than back here in a flat in the Anna. Um, but no, I thought this is, this is doable. Um, just great to just to walk along those lakes and look across the lakes and see the wonder of those mountains that just shoot up out of the earth. It's just amazing how that, that style of mountain is. I think
it's, it's really neat. Um, and it's just, it is wonder because you just walk in. It's like literally boom. It juts up out of the earth and it's just so different than what we have back here. And so the whole day I was just kind of observing that and just, Oh wow, this is really wild. Yeah, you're, you're totally right. Marty. That's yeah. The, the style of the range is called a drop fault mountain range. And so it really, it has no foothills. What it has is just a bunch of these glacier, uh,
these glacial melt lakes at the base. And so it is, it's extremely dramatic. It's a very dramatic, uh, kind of landscape to find yourself walking along and to be on Lee Lake, especially in string Lake, which are very calm lakes, unless the wind's really whipping, which is difficult at the base there. Uh, they're often so still you get those reflective kind of experiences with the photos. And I know a bunch of guys got pictures with, you know, like mountains on top of mountains in
these lakes. So I appreciate that you, uh, kind of stopped and took that in a bit. Yeah. Anybody else's thoughts on the first, uh, the first hike? Yeah. The other thing that made that hike nice, uh, was the fact that, like you said, it was kind of easier kind of along the Lake. And so it was pretty heavily traveled, meaning the path was wide enough for folks to
walk side by side, most of the way. And so that was kind of a nice refresher after being in a van for 28 hours, 26 hours, whatever, just kind of, kind of walk side by side with a buddy and just have a lot of conversation. So it was a good intro to the week. All right. So then, then moving on the second hike. Yeah. So then, uh, let's see. So our, our next hike, what we wanted to do was get a little bit more, um, elevation gain, just see what happens if we've got to climb
some Hills a little bit more. And so we did, uh, the Taggart and Bradley loop and we did it in the reverse order. That is usually recommended. We went counterclockwise on that loop so that we saw the incline right away and climb up to Bradley over the first, uh, two and a half miles or so. Um, and, uh, and that, man, that one, uh, we, we, I saw, we found some guys kind of pushing their limits a little bit more there. I was like, Oh, this is what it means. Now we did that in
the direct, uh, exposure. We had the sun right over top of us. And so there was, it was unseasonably warm. I just want everybody to remember and know that like, I, I always think of going to the mountains and it's like, it's going to be a high of 76 and it's going to be dry air and cool. And we had 90 degrees.
It was warm. Um, so, uh, we, we got some elevation gain, saw some more lakes, uh, encountered a lot more bears on that hike than, I mean, I mean, there was more bears on that hike than I think in my previous two or three years, all combined, um, less traffic on that hike again, and it narrows out a little bit. And so you've got some steeper, I think we hit some 30% grade on that hike a few times where it's just like, Oh, we've got to go up and
wind and just mini switchbacks. And then we had some elevation gain and, uh, I was kind of listening for, I was listening for that more than anything, just as far as like, how do you get to the top of the mountain? And I was like, okay, I'm going to go up and wind and I'm going to go up and wind and I'm going to go up and wind and I'm going to go up and wind. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go up and wind and I'm going to go up and wind and I'm going to go up and wind.
And I was like, okay, I'm going to go up and wind and I'm going to go up and wind and I'm going to go up and wind.
And I was like, okay, I'm going to go up and wind and I'm going to go up and I was listening for that more than anything just as far as like how are people's footwear holding up and were they feeling it as far as the the altitude just we only we only gained again 800 or 900 feet on that but That's significant when you've been in the van like I said when you were in Indiana two days ago Right or those of you who flew out because some of them especially for you actually
I'll pick on you for this one Greg or Dave since you guys were part of the group that flew out Let's start with Greg. What what was that second like hike for you? Especially since you had flown out and not had the time to acclimate in the in the car. I Thought it was I was good with it. I had a great time you know I said before I'm not the fastest hiker but
Yeah, I thought it was I thought it was good. I didn't Yeah, I thought I was prepared I mean I thought it was pretty good hike And I actually found the first day harder than second day I don't know why But first day was harder for me than the second day second day was starting to get in a groove. Yeah So yeah, I know for me the first day I was starting to cramp my calves were cramping up and then after I got used to that then the rest of the hikes were fine
You just got used to the camping. Well, no, it didn't Dave how about yourself? How is how was that second hike for you? Well, that was that was the day that we set back. So right Was easy for you I think I would say maybe using Joel's terminology or self self defined there was a couple of us that Joined the wimp club and since Dustin's not here. I can throw him under the bus and Him and I leading that way knowing that
Our L our elder bodies were were suffering a bit. But yeah the first day I Didn't I've anticipated a bit more altitude adjustment Then then I what fell you can you knew you were there you knew you're elevated and you knew you had to work a little more with the oxygen levels, but it was not enough to create headaches and some of those other altitude type of Uncomfortableness so it it you know, and maybe it's the on the beauty and the wonder that is there that
takes your mind away from some of that but you know, I think Greg did a great job of educating us on the front side and you know Preaching the you know hydration and you know the footwear conversation and all that which certainly helped so Yeah, I was really glad that there was actually just to be I mean to be perfectly honest I was really glad that there was you Dave and Dusty and I think was there one other with you
Sebastiano on the overnight. Okay, but that that one particular day, I think Ben And we took it he had to go to town So it was our job to get in town Well, I just I mean the way that we approach the retreat is it needs to be something where you are where you're too truly attentive to the needs of your soul, but as much as attentive to the needs of your body and The opportunity and the and the recognition that not everybody needs to do everything
but to opt in and opt out as you honestly reflect on the need of your on the need of your life the need of your soul and to take a day sometimes to just take a day and go like I just I'm gonna lean into the Opportunity to breathe and rest and be in on being wonder here and I don't need to exert and I don't need to work and stress My body in order to prove anything to myself or anyone else But I can I can do that and I I was very very glad that there was a few of you who decided who?
Recognized that that was the opportunity in front of you and took advantage of that. That's just that truly was meaningful to me Yeah, and I think if there's anybody else listening that would say boy I would like to to get on that that list or go hang out with Greg and Adam and do something like this in the future the thing that was attractive was exactly that was that hey there there is not a Expectation of any type we we anticipate participation
But that definition of participation does not mean 110 miles every day at 110 percent Hiking there was there was lots of value and those those three of us Dustin and Ben and I we had some really awesome awesome conversation That day it was very much appreciated so You're seeing your spot on and that was Greg laid that out to us in the beginning and that was very very attractive to me
So so after that that hike what was our was our next thing there mr. New Meyer so that evening I believe that evening was actually When we went out to visit old Pat then oh, yes So yeah without spoiling the without spoiling the grandeur of old Pat for everybody who's not aware there is a There's a there's a tree in the in Grand Teton National Park That's kind of been lost to history because of moving a road and different things, but used to be an iconic stopping point
For visitors, and we still make a trek out there
I find it almost an angry will pilgrimage for myself to go and visit old Pat. That's referred to as the old patriarch tree But I think that evening was when we all and every single one of us that was I think that was myself and then this the the 15 of you so there's 16 of us that actually made it out to old Pat and So that was our evening kind of little walk about excursus if you will wasn't a full hike we have to bushwhack but the destination is much more the
Point than the journey on that one yeah, and in that again with without Devulging all the all the sacred goodness of that experience I think you know something I would just say because again having
Both myself and Josiah out there. You know that was an opportunity and I would just I would say this to In it was an opportunity for I think a really a significant reflection You know and I would just say I would say this to to Dave and it was something that Dave shared and even directed toward Josiah that Included him in that conversation, and I mean it's something that Josiah is going to remember for the for the rest of his life That made us really really significant
Impact and so I get again. I think you know much to Greg's credit like he has he has Not and not and just being like not in a manipulative sort of way But in a very intentional sort of way like staging these experiences out and and and right timing the conversation Around what we're what we're experiencing
Where I think you know after a good hike. I don't know you're you're more open And it's you're tired But you're you're more open to just sort of like breathe it all in and just mmm slow yourself down and to reflect and to have
And to have good content just have good conversation. Yeah, I think for me again with that without spoiling old Pat So I mean that's hard to not do but it was it was nice to have a conversation or it was nice to have a hike that was that was easier, but had just as much purpose as The other hikes you know for the other hikes we got to see the grandeur of the mountains and the lakes and all the beauty in that the mountains provide
But this is nice because it wasn't necessarily in the mountains, but it was a nice hike and then just the Pretty nice I don't know the the the way that you talked about the tree and Then just the time of reflection Because we were able to reflect and we were like silent and that for me was was great Cuz it was a time to just no one was talking. There was no one talking. We were just sitting there with with God and us and
Whatever he was speaking to us. And so that was yeah, that was a good a good time. I Find that place is just that particular scene is is very meaningful to me I love introducing others to it and inviting you to have a you know, maybe your own moment there. I I'll Openly say the first time that I made it to that spot I mean, I made it there with tears in my eyes just going like this is I
Don't know what's going on right here. I don't know what's happening here, but it was just like this like collision of visual tangible expression of something Mystic almost that I don't that that I've read about and seen in Scripture and seen a value for but here's this tangible expression of it that has just kind of become an icon of
Sorts of what we've talked about out there. So I hope that that was meaningful to other people as well. And You know if part of the man up experience anyone who wants to do these retreats in the future will will go and visit old Pat and We'll talk about it. Yeah. Yeah, so So after that experience then as we're getting as we're well, we're not really getting ready the next hike
Who had anything to say? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, hey ever Greg or Jonathan or Marty who yeah, even Jason Jason His name yeah, I Really enjoyed the the hike out to old Pat because it was it was it was short
But it was meaningful just to see something in this kind of country. That's that old I thought was just really fascinating if you ever travel overseas There's a lot more age in those countries and we don't have that as much here and just just to hear the Story of the tree the age of the tree it was a very meaningful short time that that we had there and without Getting anybody in trouble
It did produce the the most enjoyable rock that somebody brought home on that. We're not gonna mention any names, right?
We won't we won't mention your name. I mean Yeah, and the way that That Greg set up the that hike to for anyone planning on going on this trip He didn't take the direct route to see this tree we We went about it in such a way that you get a different perspective on it and the takeaway from that Everybody was free to take away their own meaning from this experience my meeting Or my takeaway was different from everybody else's and and so it was a neat experience that it was the shared
shared experience the shared height Out out into this open area But yet it was also very individualized it was probably one of the moments on this trip That was the most individual for me as well me being able to take away something
That was just for me. Like Andy said we have there's a moment of silence there where I could be reflective on just my own Heart situation whatever was going on Yeah, so so we were originally going to we were originally going to hike up and over right there was gonna be an overnight hike that we were gonna originally like up and over and The mountain and then camp to a new campsite you had the option to do that and those who wanted to do that could could do that
But then with the previous week you there was some smoke and you said me as I experienced hiker can't even do that So I'm not taking you guys up there Which I? Appreciated that I mean I would have loved to do it
I appreciate I felt like when Greg was explaining that all to us. There was this collective sense of relief And by the way false relief, I just want to be clear we were we were relieved We were not gonna have to go through that experience and little did we know home that we were not off the hook, right?
But yes, but so yes we ended up by my video went away So yes, we ended up hiking and we There's our video Again technology, so we ended up not doing that but we all drove to the second campsite yeah, and then from there we went ahead and Those who wanted to do the overnight hike could could do that and so we set out on a journey and And yeah, what happened Greg tell me what happened
So what we did was we broke camp like you're supposed to we broke camp we packed up everything that what was it Saturday morning I think it was Yeah, Saturday morning, and we had a nice lovely just a lovely drive. It's a great down and around the mountain
So rather than take the pass we took the scenic route. So you saw the Palisades Reservoir you saw the the lake you've got to drive through some of the most incredible mountain back roads Just some of the most yeah, beautiful beautiful roads that Idaho and Wyoming have to offer collectively in that Caribou Targhee National Forest coming in and out of everything We made it to so Yeah, so rather than spend all of our time Exclusively in the National Park boundaries what I really
Enjoy doing is getting outside of the park and getting into what the designated wilderness area So we we we were in a National Forest campground Which is the Teton Canyon campgrounds beautiful campground back in Teton Canyon one of the oldest one of the oldest campgrounds in the in the area, I mean there are pictures of 130 140 years ago of people with their covered wagons camping in those same spots that we were and
taking the same hikes up the canyon and so the Teton Creek comes down the canyon during the June June July that Creek is Rushing it is a massive massive river that can be actually pretty formidable to cross So we went up Teton Canyon and the first two and a half miles are easy going. I mean what was it 250 maybe? 350 Elevation gain Jason might know and then you got to come to this fork in the road and do you want to take wilderness or?
National Forest trail number 27, or do you want to take National Forest trail number 28 now? I I will just I'm just gonna remind you I was there to take Road 27 we were gonna go good old lucky beautiful Mile more mild ish 27 27 was the one I had taken before But the sign who are we who are we right to deviate?
from Greg's known Known route who are we the sign did did issue, so we don't have all of these Individuals with us today, but the sign threw down a challenge of sorts the sign indicate gave it threw down a gauntlet And it just said devil's staircase right which was yeah It was a challenge like you said yeah, and there was a collective Do we really want to and then there was I thought it was very actually I thought it was very inspiring to me
Personally like as someone who was like I I would rather do route 27 here like that'll be great But there was this collective rallying of no we want to do like we want to suffer like we I'm not sure that that's actually what we we said You heard that's the way I heard it and so we then opted for route 28 and went and veered then south to go towards the devil's staircase and Three and a half miles later We had experienced all that it had to offer Go up another
2500 feet so yes, so I want to hear from each of you that were on devil's staircase I want to start with Greg. I want to start with Greg As you are climbing devil's staircase What is going and I'll ask each of you this what what is going through your mind What are the words what what is the conversation that is internal to you as you are? Heading up that that elevation I
Was uh I had I was having a complete high. I was total loving every minute of it I I wanted to take that route and I wanted to see See what it had in store for me, and so what was going through my mind was a couple things one Don't quit mm-hmm and Just keep going one step at a time like I've said before I'm not that I'm not a fast hiker I'm not that's not who I am, but I'm a plugger and
That's it my style real well, and I just kept going I just kept going and I felt like I was getting stronger as the day As we went up and I just I was on that was one of the highlights of the trip for me that hike along with old Pat so I Was just with sheer awe and wondering that moment being in that spot Being able to push myself that way so I was having a great time I loved it why we made that decision The other thing that was going through my mind is and I shared this little pad
There's a course that is near and dear to me And it's the course of I will call upon the Lord and and I sing that often on the trail I probably sang that course more often on that trail because when when you're faced with adversity when you're faced with challenges am I gonna call upon the Lord and so while I was facing this physical challenge in front of me I Called upon Lord and and so that was just a it was a high for me And I don't use that pun lightly that we were on a mountain
But I was I was drinking it all in I had a great time. That's awesome Marty Marty what was going through your your brain? Well most of what Greg said, but probably first of all it was like what the hell am I doing? It was steep yeah, and It was kicking my butt and I like to be challenged. I like to be in better shape when I'm challenged, but um But yeah, I was standing there. I think we were going. I'm not sure who was
Leading, but we made it like 300 feet. I think J. And I stood there, and I'm like Wow, this is amazing It was amazing just in the in the view it was amazing in the just the challenge and how Literally how hard it was I mean these first few days that we talked about hiking You know we we were walking we were walking without packs and so it was like oh This is this piece of cake and now we throw 15 20 pounds on our back, and now we're walking on a 60 degree 65 degree incline and and you're just
there's just a lot of different feelings and aspects and and Pains and and highs too, but um yeah, no it was It was enjoyable. It's kind of stuff that I like to do. I wish my body could do a bit more but um Yeah, I would I would agree with a lot of what Greg said on that yeah, Jason Jason. How about you man? Well, I'm thinking you know let's just get this over with at the beginning Let's just go ahead and tackle all the elevation gain within a few miles
And then just be done, and I heard the word a few times a mistake. I never really thought it was a mistake I thought it was actually a happy little accident It was grueling it was it was challenging actually had to take some time to just be aware of your body while you're doing it and You know just that awareness of where am I at rather than just getting busy and trying to go fast and hard yeah
So yeah, that's right same thing for me. You know I think it was it was My experience of it was this so there was two different groups Or three different kind of we kind of all strung out because we all have different abilities Those of you those of you who show off a lot and we're way ahead of us Like a quarter mile ahead of us and and I remember look I I just got to the top I think I was with Ian and we both just made it to the top of Devil's staircase
And I hear Greg Greg Neumeier shouting you're on the wrong path, and I'm like oh, no Are you kidding me like no? We're not like I'm at the top. I'm not coming back down there because this is ridiculous I'm not going back down there, and so I'm trying to shout and scream to the people in front of us I have a whistle and I'm like whistling and trying to get their attention and say hey like you guys are on the wrong path too and they started coming back and then I Was like I again
I'm still in my mind refusing to walk back down because I'm like I'm not walking back down this thing to have you Greg decided we're coming back up and so I stayed there and the next thing I know you guys start coming to us and What ensued was I mean I do really think that God had us in the right spot like I mean yes it was tough and it added to our total length of the the trip or of the that nightly trip or whatever but The campsite and well just the experience before that even was amazing
And then I remember we were all kind of getting thirsty because we were running out of water And then we found this tiny little stream that we were all like praising Jesus that we found this dream and we were bent down and filtering a water out of it and stuff and then We walk on and continue on from there And you just are in this beautiful field of like flowers and and things and then we decided to make camp and like that That view is something I can't even explain
Yeah, people and I think you said even Craig like this is a more beautiful view than the original site I was playing it take absolutely was yeah And I mean when we opted to go south on on route 28 and head on the devil staircase there's another there was a fork that was about a third of a mile up that path that would have continued the same kind of trajectory and Steepness if you will the pitch the gain But we missed that fork and so we ended up going a much wider and
You know, we ended up going much wider around so it did add some overall length to our hike
But happy accident is completely acceptable. I definitely wouldn't call it a mistake It was just I mean something that kind of I kind of kept in mind for most of our I mean for the we're doing these things is that flexibility begets opportunity like You're not gonna you're not gonna stumble into something amazing surprising Without being flexible if you if you stay rigid to your plan if you stay rigid to your map And it has to be this way we have to go like this
Then you always know what to expect and you maintain a fault kind of a false sense of control then and if you just go Realize like you know Okay, so we paused I think Joel and Josiah and I and somebody else standing there with Jonathan I think were you standing there with us too, or you were just a little bit up the trail With Ben maybe yeah, we were halfway between you guys and Andy and the rest of the pack was trying to play a game of really bad game for telephone
But I just we just paused right there and it was one of those like okay I'm gonna be still for just a minute and just try to lean in and Ask the Lord honestly as well. I did was just pray it was just like Okay, are we do we maintain this path or do I need to call people back like and it's not okay wrestling through the Don't want inconvenience people, but I also don't want to like if we go the wrong direction we could end up in trouble here because we're I don't know where we're going then and
Just leaning in and I felt like this. I just felt like an overwhelming piece of just keep going And we were so we kept going and it was interesting and interesting enough There was there was a there was a guy coming down Yeah That's their case that we that we ran into and and Greg just voiced to him because he had come from that route just voiced him kind of the dilemma and In his his thing was if you're at this point
You might as well you might as well if you've done this so far you might you might as well keep keep on going because otherwise You're you're probably adding just additional. Yeah. Yeah, just additional length to your trip that you know trouble than it's worth Yeah, yeah, the payoff is gonna be better. The pay is gonna be better. And so yeah, that was But I completely agree with Andy that is my favorite wilderness campsite I've ever I've encountered and I mean
There's a few of us around Alaska Bay a few of us are getting a tattoo because of it. Oh, yeah Oh I'm in I am in my wife is gonna hear this episode and I'm gonna have to explain to her but nevertheless So for us this trip I had a 13 year old boy doing this with me and Josiah Number one, yeah, she's not good. I don't want to embarrass him But it's just Josiah Josiah had had to use the latrine the non-existent latrine
Well, I was a bush. Yeah, well on devil staircase, which I guess If you I mean going going doing your business out in the wilderness There's you know, it's it's gonna be a particular challenge or whatever to it But you know you get used to it But doing it on the side of a mountain where you're like one minute one miss if you don't secure yourself Properly you could you could tip over I just don't like it's so funny like giving your son like hey
Hey, bud, just like make sure that you make sure you got good footing Make sure you're planted kid wasn't that dude was a trooper, but you know He when we got to the top of devil staircase I mean we we were have I was having the conversation with him as we kind of kept on going there were a few periods of time where he he was physically really like really struggling and And there was this kind of there's just kind of sphere that was starting to take over him of like
Cuz he because he did not know it was hard to articulate when our campsite was gonna be how much more No, we didn't really know right because we needed a certain certain
Circumstances for what we needed for our campsite to be like it. We needed to find this find this spot It's kind of like well, I could be a little ways so I can't tell him Hey, dude, just 30 more minutes and we're gonna we're gonna be there if I would have said that that would have been a lie but Having a conversation with him of hey We're gonna go 20 feet at a time or 50 feet at a time And if you need to if you need to stop after doing that, we'll do that
But we're just gonna we're gonna keep on going going back is not an option which he knew and understood logically, but he's like, you know and and
That kid he he got up. He did it. We got to the camp. We got to the campsite I've never been more relieved in my in my life is like as a as a parent to arrive somewhere with my kid And but that night we're laying we're laying in the tent and and guys you all experienced this and it's really hard to explain the way the wind through that That basin and you would hear it hear the wind off and along that like I can't really before explain kind of haunting
a little bit like you'd hear the wind off in long distance and it would just like kind of the wind would almost echo through the canyon and then would get to you and then would swirl around and like head off in Another direction and I just I mean I like that was like Holy Spirit wind man That was like, you know, no, I have no idea where it comes from where it goes It was you know, it was really really amazing because we're laying there at night just I was like so dad
But how much farther do we have to hike up? Tomorrow and I was like well and I had I had at least some context of what we had to do I was like We're gonna get we just gotta go this much farther up About was about 500 feet 500 feet couple we had a couple had a couple miles to this about three quarters of a mile It's a 300 feet three quarters of mile 500 feet and then it will be all down way down. Yeah, he's like, oh, okay I think he fall asleep woke up an hour later dad remind me again. How much?
How much farther do we have to go? How much farther do we have to go?
This is another 500 feet up and it'll be all the way down and and But but that was I mean that was an anchor maybe an anchor memory for us That's something that we something hard that we did that it's only he and I that did it And that and that he had he had all of you guys You know those around that hike You know cheering him on for that and just and speaking just words of that's where I really felt like there was that that was The communal aspect of that just the encouragement cheering him on
when he when he got there and For you know, I would say for a kid who just does not give himself enough credit for doing doing the stuff that he does I that was you know, I just kept on saying like you should like have some pride that you were it is okay for you to be like, yeah, I Accomplished this and just give yourself permission. It's it's not like it's not like you're you know
Not being humble to say that was a good thing that I did that. I'm glad I'm glad that you did So I don't say this you both were carrying
Serious packs. Yeah You had some ultralight guys here you had I think Jonathan just had a like a bedroll tied to a backpack and a water container and and Greg was just like I mean you you and you get you and Josiah were carrying some serious packs and And really I would do the hammock camping next time I'll just I'll say that that that that is now attractive to me in a new way So I want to I want to touch base here a little bit
So we also have Dave who didn't go on this hike stayed back with Sebastiano and Dustin and Adam And can you talk to me a little bit? So obviously you you didn't do this hike, but what was the time like for you?
Spending it with just those those other gentlemen Yeah, so Another opportunity to have some intimate conversation and I think but I I know Dustin would echo this as well as Sebastiano that You know Adam we really didn't did not know prior to like and that gave us an opportunity to interact with him
Hear his story. I want to I was just telling Greg shank this today. I said I in several of us would love to go to weeping water, Nebraska, yeah and See him see his church and see what he does his story the ministry that he is doing in that community is amazing and Part of what We were we were doing is is listening to his story and and providing some Support hopefully some guidance and rejuvenation for him in that process And we also chose to say hey, we're gonna go ride the ski hill lift
mountain lifts And get up to 10,000 feet look over the top of that mountain with a fantastic view and could see Where you guys were ending up so we took again the wimp way To the top and said we got to 10,000 feet just like you did For a small fee So that was that was beautiful beautiful views and still gave us a little bit of perspective of where you guys were going and still felt included in that process awesome and Adam was able to
Kind of give us the lay of the land and point out to where things were and that was very helpful So we had a very very enjoyable 24 hours Together and having some really phenomenal conversations and And hearing each other's story, so it was it was fun and an Adam is such evidence evident to me I'm sure it was especially evident to you guys the the dude is such a servant leader like oh Like I was you know you just you meet those you meet those sort of people you're like
Whatever it is whatever whatever it is you're doing with your life like I want I want more of like You are you are teaching just in just in his presence teaching me more about God I like I legitimately I can think of no no higher compliment to him than to say that I was a Man of a man of few words, but of deep words and clearly I I just was immensely grateful for him And all that he brought so that yeah, that's I'm so glad I'm kind of jealous quite honestly
You got you guys got that that time. That's that's really really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah
I'm sure though that I know that I know that that was meaningful to him. I know that that was extremely valuable time for him to spend that with with you and Destin and Sebastiano just having a and I mean this in the most complimentary way to spend some time with elders and have your Have your ears have your your hearts in alignment with his and just to give him support and encouragement I really I know that that was worth more than Worth more than gold in his world
He's a really important person in my life And I'm very glad that he was that you guys were all able to Meet him and be introduced to to his ministry and and know that there's more of that more of that to come I'll just I will say it's in another small world. So in the water treatment industry It's that I became acquainted with some folks in in Omaha and I thought no way does he know them He knows them like the back of his hand
They are in the weeping water area. He's played coached some of their kids. Yep, and it was like no way Oh, that's it. That was and so that you know, this this small world we live in is really really cool and got a way of connecting us which was fun too and speaking of elders, it wasn't lost on me that Everybody on that mountain overnight was younger than me. And so while that in some ways was a little intimidating, you know You know it it challenged me and it spurred me on to know that
We're all gonna get up this mountain no matter what our age is. So That was pretty cool. Yeah, and to your credit Greg. I had not made that connection until you just Just said that your ability once I never Brand new thought to me as well. You were in the front pack. I think
Devil's staircase. So I yeah, you were you're way in front of us Lisa. These are hustler So aside from Josiah then I don't know so I don't know the whole gamut of you know, the whole Group of the people Jonathan were you the youngest outside of Josiah then who? Headed up headed up well, so Owen was
Owens 20 right I think okay. All right So yeah, I had forgotten about Owen, but I know Jonathan had some significant, you know He I I know I've gotten some reflections from different people on their new experience And I know Jonathan had some thoughts on the devil staircase and the the mountain meek campsite as well that those I don't know if you'd like to share anything here Before yeah, I think I think actually yeah besides
Josiah and Owen I was probably next in line for for youngest there. I think I just edged Jonathan Morris there as next Yeah, devil staircase was its own challenge, but I think someone else said on here you just keep plugging along You know, you've kind of got these doubts in your head, you know, can I do this? Can I do this and Before you know, you're at the top. It's it's kind of amazing how Without realizing it your body just does what it needs to do and and it gets to the top and then
And then yeah the campsite and the trek to the campsite. Oh my goodness and that That field of wildfires that we walked and that was probably Easy a half a mile almost a mile long and I might be exaggerating where you're just walking along. You've got this giant cliff face to the right of you and to the left of you is the open canyon and you're in the middle of this field of just nothing but
Flowers all of them in bloom. I I don't know how lucky we got down in season, but all these fires were in bloom And you got every color under the Sun there And and it was hot there was there were bugs there, but what struck me in that moment walking that Probably last mile up to the campsite was just the enormity of the silence that was there There was no sound of cars no sound of generators no sound of Anything else out there?
It was you and the sound of your footsteps walking in that field and and your elevated pulse Quiet cursing of the people who decided hey, we should do this trail and Jonathan You just made me think this Greg did I hear the the numerical variety of wildflowers in in that region?
Was someone's I someone said a number I thought I heard but it's it's like staggering like the number of different plants like flowers peaches Are there I don't know if you I don't believe it, but I don't know the I don't know the specifics of theirs I'm not even so and we definitely hit a very narrow probably a two-week window to hit all to see that many in bloom all at once yellows purples pinks reds
All right, yeah, yeah all the what oh my gosh whites orange. Yeah. Yeah, it was blue. I mean it was everything Yeah, it was amazing No, I was with Jonathan there in that just like when you got to the top when you were out of the canyon
And it's like okay. We're just gonna walk until we find a good campsite now But I did notice that I didn't I didn't feel a sense of urgency to find a campsite I just wanted to walk slowly through all of those flowers Yeah, I just wanted to take that a little slower to have a 13 year old boy with him going How much farther I don't know just go ask Greg Yeah, I think it was it was cool too because as we as we found that that campsite I know that like Ian and I were ahead and we kept saying oh
There's a bunch of trees to be the thing we had to take into consideration was the fact that we had eight hammockers with us and so we had to find trees for these hammockers and We'd find a bunch of trees And we get there and then they were either two dents and and also had a bunch of undergrowth And so yeah, then we finally found one and yeah, it was just the most beautiful campsite ever Yeah
the I mean one of the things that we had to take into consideration for that trail was I'm not sure where we're gonna make Camp we're just gonna have to Collectively recognize we have hit a limit for the day and this will be good
But you still need factors in in play you needed water. You have to have water nearby There's gotta be and you want it to be living water You won't you don't want it to be a lake you want it to be living water nearby so we have living water nearby we need a flat we need some flat ground for our tent campers and we need trees for our hammockers and We just kind of kept passing patch after patch after patch of trees and going like man
There's got to be one up here somewhere until we got far enough ahead and it's like well We're just gonna keep walking until we get it and the one that we found Really just couldn't I couldn't have asked for anything better really couldn't have it's still I mean it will Absolutely be one of my favorite places that we've ever overnighted
I could have I could have spent a couple days there saying yeah, they're been very happy. Yep. Yep, very very cool so when we wake up the next day and We're gonna head our head on our way down and it and Greg remind me what is like what is the official name of this loop that way is there like the apart from the number 28 27 well devil's staircase was technically from that point on the Y where 27 and 28 diverge to Where it terminates at the Teton Crest Trail, which was the highest point
Okay, that whole stretch of trail that probably four miles is the devil staircase. Okay. Yep Gotcha, and then so as we're then heading our way down it there's a point at which you feel like you From that valley that you're in
You enter another world you do the Alaska Basin. Yeah, which is which is just between the rock formations and Some of the small glaciers that we're walking by there as we're entering into that That phase and the lakes and the river and the river and the rivers and then just yeah the rock formations But what an 11 mile? descent I think was 10 from from where we hit our highest point of
9860 was 10 miles from there back to camp. Yeah, which I will say I really felt that that trail at the very end should have been a couple miles shorter than what I remember I remember it being a couple miles shorter Jonathan you were in my group I just I remember like each bend when we would go around I'm like, certainly I'm gonna see that end of trail sign It's gotta be there
Nothing was more disheartening than getting down into that one section of the valley and and we see a sign and we can go great It's a sign and it says campsite
7.7 miles. Yes Thanks so much But but again another I mean a beautiful hike down I it's interesting down hiking down at that grade and pretty pretty good a Steady grade levels out at some point some as you're going through the forest and things that's a level but for that distance you're using a different set of my own yes down and Your toes are getting jammed into the front of your shoes of steel
Yeah, all of that. And so there's a different like and I've just said the last mile and a half of the trail out I I lost all feeling in my feet I just didn't I did they it was like they were They were there in as much as I knew I had to move them to keep going forward But like that's that's how I felt and then and then you know, and then we were done So it was it was it was fine So I think Marty Jason and Greg were all in the first group to come out of the canyon
Is that right? Was it the three of you and all together with then Ben with Ben?
I think Eric, you know Owen were first first to Eric and Owen were first and then we were the next group Yeah and then I think I was third group and I think that was amazing too to come out and As you come out of the parking lot and because our campsite there Where Dave and the rest of the group was positioned like it was cool Cuz we turned the corner and they stood up and like clap Yeah clap for us and it was just an amazing feeling of going, you know, there's someone cheering you on
Yeah, like even though like obviously they weren't with us along the side
Like they knew how hard this was for us and it was cool to see them and their support. Yep When when we were coming through so they so the search party came out for the last of us Just I don't know how far not I mean not terribly far up the trail but they came up the trail and as we were coming in and and Adam came and He just look came up to me and he goes he goes give me your pack and I go Is this you asking or you telling telling me?
He goes I've been where you've been before and I'm taking I'm taking I'm taking your back which was which was great but I think you get into the end of that we we had an Excite our group before had an exciting bear encounter just you know up, you know a few miles out from the end of the trail We were walking along and you know I started seeing like bear scat on the trail like like every 15 feet or whatever and I was just like we are going to
See it like there's going to be one and boy. Oh boy You're I mean it is it's part of the challenge of your tuck you're tired and but you're trying to stay aware of your surroundings stay aware of your surroundings and all of a sudden 25 feet in front of me this huckleberry bush just starts shaking
I'm in front. I did one of that. It's almost like a cartoon sort of thing of like stop Like everybody kind of crashes into each other you know, we're all just like along everybody just kind of like bumps into each other and yeah, and this and this Bear just looked out probably and probably a female. I was a little bit smaller, but
Not that I care because it's a bear. It's on the trail And it's you know and just took a couple steps toward us and we just started making our big bear our big our big bear Noises and then walks up the hill a little bit and just sits right down and kind of watches us as we like Jonathan I just thought like again unconcerned by our present are unconcerned by our presence there whatsoever. I thought but
It could have cared less. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what was so funny about that that moment is, you know, we were all Yeah, yeah, you were in front Joel and then you know We stopped we see the bear and then there's this Moment where few seconds pass by as the four of us and this group realized none of us had any bears But you know who did Jonathan Greg who was just up the trail a little bit farther best guide ever No problem no problem. No, it was
Just again a reminder. Look the the the hike wasn't over until the hike was over right? like there's there is this definitely the sense of remaining appropriately vigilant and aware and I'm through through the end and And and that's why you are never so glad is when it when it's done it's really done yeah, and I wouldn't put my feet in a river that was maybe 50 degrees if I if we were lucky and
And it was Andy had laid in the snow that had formed that river the day before. Yeah Yeah, that's So I got to hike with I got to hike with Greg for a little while because he was with Ian and Andy and I and we we had a nice leisurely nap on a on a big flat white rock. That was
That was wonderful and how nice for you. It was nice that we had to try to figure out how do we I mean It's interesting going along the trail when you realize that the group has kind of split up and you know Okay Do we at what point do we stop and wait and I think that was that was an interesting kind of Moment for us because we wanted to find water right but we also wanted to rest ourselves But not rest long enough to get stiff. Mm-hmm. And that was probably about halfway
I mean, we were probably only about halfway right there. I would say maybe five miles down So, I don't know if Greg had any Reflections on that moment because there's a nice picture that Andy got of us all Yeah, I mean it was kind of an interesting, you know dilemma, you know, I I was out of water I was
Drank way more water than I normally drink hiking. I had three liters gone in a heartbeat And I'm normally not the person that likes stopping Partially because of my age I get stiff really quick, but it felt really good to lay on that rock And just kind of chill a little bit and get some rest. But then yeah, the dilemma is like, okay I'm out of water Do we hike back to someone has a filter do we just keep sitting here do we press forward and just kind of working through? all that but
At the same time not getting too stressed out because it felt pretty good. Just sitting on that rock
Mm-hmm and just chilling and looking at the sky. So that was that was pretty awesome Yeah, I think at that point even Marty was still behind maybe was in the group behind us So when we all gathered up together that was I think the last time that the entire group was all Together on that trail when we got around maybe a quarter mile down and we had the cascade there was a cascade and the stream in there and Filled up on water had some trail mix and then I think fell in
Somebody couple people. I think a couple people maybe fell into the water there But I think that was the last time that everyone was together was probably right at that halfway point and there was a refueling of Okay, so we had some got out some food Everybody recharged on water and then it was kind of now we're gonna now it was kind of right then it was think it was a decision
internally maybe un unspoken but an internal decision of and now we're gonna push for the camp like we're pushing for the campground now like it's We have we have we're putting into another gear right now and we're now pushing for the campground. Yep and and then we broke camp and Like once we spent the night at the campground, yeah, and then we we broke camp the next day and Those who flew flew those who drove drove Back home and I took and I by the way full disclosure. I took the pass
Back through cuz I sort of we I was yeah, I was like I was like I'm curious to this this and boy. Oh boy We were just as like we were following a guy It was a it was carrying an air and put an airstream down down that or whatever and I was like just uh I want you to keep it on the rear axle because I think it might light on fire You could smell it you could smell it and but that was I mean that was an interesting experience in of itself but yeah, there's
And and I managed to record a fake history over Pierce hole why is everything a hole out there? I mean, it's it's You could say Valley Pierce Valley sounds lovely piers hole Questionable anyway, so we come to the end of our trip. I want to hear from each of you Just one final thought on on the trip itself. So let's start with Dave
Though I still have to come back to kind of the the spiritual highlight the st. Pat I was old Pat And I want to throw you know throw drag shank the compliment of following the Holy Spirit's leading and you know a group of men out in the middle of Teton Valley, yeah Stinging yeah praises to God that clearly was Was an awesome moment and for those that know my situation That was a that that was the that was a healing healing moment good
That that meant a ton and not knowing not knowing what to expect out of this trip Not just yeah going why eyes wide open That that was that was the ticket and I thank each of you guys there each of you here and all the others that aren't aren't with us to to making that a special holy moment and in from the music to the prayers to the comments to the conversation and and for Greg for leading us to there and and for your your inspiration and guidance
In in the words to yeah to give us give us those moments. So that one that was a highlight Alright moving on to Jonathan Yeah final thoughts For anybody that has the opportunity to take this trip Go for it. I was kind of invited last minute. I want to say You know that the trip had already been decided on and I was invited to come along and Throughout the first whole part of the trip. I was kind of wondering why in the world me, you know
You know what? Why me? Why was I invited? Why am I here and Slowly as that trip went on, you know, I I discovered my own reason for being there And for anybody else who's kind of questioning. Well, it's not for me. It's not it's not something I would want to do you know, I had those questions going into this thing and Coming out of that trip. I am so glad I won The opportunity for for growth for healing and and for discovering your own reason you find that along the way
You don't have to go there with a predetermined. I'm going to accomplish this You figure it out Marty what about yourself? Well, I would kind of agree with
John Jonathan on some of those things. Um, you don't have to have a reason why right away but for me it was just I I'll be Honest, I didn't want to go Because I didn't want to have to have that challenge because I know that I would do it because I have to do it In a serious in a weird weird weird way, but I wanted to go because being in a group of men is a very
Healing it's a very it's what we need to do as men. We need to do more of that and Sometimes we just get caught in life and we're kind of stuck and we don't do enough of though the man things and so so Greg I was I was very thankful for you for Leading us as a as a group of men and and letting the men kind of work their way on their own personal level There was no real big push to you have to accomplish
X Y & Z and so it was just great to have conversation on the trail with so many of these guys and And it's it's worth it's a worthwhile trip. Whoever has the opportunity to do it grab on to it Greg Chang You know trying to find a high among highs is Is very difficult, you know, we've talked about old Pat
We talked about the Alaska basin. We talked about devil's care staircase. We talked about the camaraderie with the with the guys it's just so hard to Pick the pinnacle moment among pinnacle moments and yet I am still so drawn to The first day's devotion book on Thursday morning and You know Psalms 1 21 1 through 8 I will look up to the mountains does my strength come from the mountains?
no, my strength comes comes from God who made heaven and earth and mountains and You know Greg put together a great trip we got a great devotional book and I worked through all those but I still couldn't get past day one and As we tried to find strength in and of ourselves to make this physical challenge I was continually reminded and broke down on the trail many times To say no my strength doesn't come from these mountains and I will call upon the Lord and though
Probably the highlight was just starting right out bang that verse Greg just had a great way to provide verses that were Just geared towards me. It felt like me and to us as men that we feel like we need to provide our own strength
We need to have the answers. We need to have control. We're supposed to lead our families are supposed to do all these things And it's not of our own strength and so day one's Devotion I couldn't hardly get past it I didn't need the rest of the booklet because I was still stuck trying to process day one and You know, I still remember that one of the challenges for day one Devotion was to draw a map of your journey of life
I still don't know how to start drawing the pencil still in my hand and how do you even bring that into words? So I'll just stop here and just say the pinnacle moment of pinnacle moments I'm gonna come back to that scripture verse from day one and learning the lesson that my strength doesn't come from me and Sometimes you have to go to the Tetons to find that out Jason we're what about you for me unplugging slowing down and Just taking time to share and other men's stories and to share my story
Which is great It's a recharge and a reset for my soul that God needed to give to me. So that was great that part Joel All great moments I will say there's The first morning we woke up and we're at our kids campsite and we're In the morning the the pink light of the sunrise hits the range And we had a clear a relatively relatively clear morning that morning So it had been some haze and things like that and I'm I'm standing up on the hill that's kind of over our up
above our campsite a little bit and just and just watching this and And You know a good gift God
Josiah walks up that hill and then you gonna again know my son. It's not it's not par for the course I'm I'm standing there having a moment with with the Lord and the kid walks up and just puts his arms around me and doesn't say word puts his arms around me and we just and we just see the mountains there together and I Will just treasure that forever that like that is it Just as good as it gets for for me and it's kind of That feels like that set the theme for our for our
Togetherness in the midst of this journey with all the with all of you guys and doing it with you It really set the theme and the precedent for me and kind of what we experience of like like oh
God's giving us this opportunity. We're connecting in the unique way in the midst of it because I'll be honest with you There's a little bit of stress guys Like when you're like, I don't want this I don't want to put more pressure on this trip than is it is due to make it do certain things or have it whatever And just in God just showed up just absolutely showed up but it was exactly the right thing at the right time and
really really grateful and we had we had a couple days in the car together too on the way back to process some more things and and all that and Mostly just I just wanted to sleep in the back of the car
Don't blame them. But yeah that definitely for me. Yeah. Mmm for me it was the Waking up getting out of my hammock and sitting wherever I was at so whether it be right with a lake or you know in the Mountains were on the overnight trip or in the campground Sitting and doing my devotions with God amongst that That beauty like there's nothing like like you kind of said Joel I have a great picture of it on my phone of the the pink light just hitting hitting the mountains
And yeah for me that was that was it. So Greg, what about you?
That's hard, that's that's hard I mean for me I mean maybe the lat I mean honestly I think the The last day Monday, you know would have been two weeks ago tomorrow like for me It was it was a great adventure like the adventure was not being there and and doing the trails I mean we did multiple trails that I had not done before many trails that I have done many times before it was the The the great adventure for me was do I have what it takes to do this with you guys?
Like okay, I've done this with multiple, you know smaller groups six men eight men nine men eleven men but 17 That was for me that was the big adventure the big challenge was Can is this has has what I have envisioned did I oversell anything did I know did I did I did I cast a vision That is within the step of the spirit and getting to the last day and seeing the smiles and seeing the satisfaction seeing Hearing the stories
For me that was the that was the moment of of deep fulfillment was oh wow these guys really got it like they I Think these guys all actually got it That was that was extremely meaningful for me Yeah awesome well We definitely want to say to all of our guests Greg brother Greg. Thank you so much and Dave Greg Jonathan Marty Jason and all of our other co-journers want to say thank you guys so much for a great experience
Hey, dudes and dads podcast listeners. You want to head over to dudes and dads calm We got show notes and previous episodes merchandise merchandise get yourself some swag Dudes and dads podcast at gmail.com you want to shoot us an email would love to hear from you future show ideas or some helpful feedback that's always great to like and subscribe on the socials, that's good and Until next time guys we wish you grace and peace