Jason Brick: Keeping Our Families Safe – S4E18

On this episode of the Dudes and Dads podcast, we're talking with Jason Brick about all things safety. You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast, a show dedicated to helping men be better dudes and dads by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling. And now here are your hosts, Joel DeMott and Andy Lehman. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Andy, hello. So right before this episode recorded, Joel tried to do a hand crank some coffee in the mic there. Oh, man.

Don't worry. It's going to get better. I want to produce the sound well. And next time I'm going to take everybody through my special coffee making process, but all the sounds, all the all the sounds, all the sounds. We should make a coffee making podcast. Just no smells, no smells, all sounds. We catch that'll be the name of the podcast. No smell, no smell, all sound. Wow. Oh, that's a you got me going. Yes. Oh, Joel, how are you doing? Man, Andy, I'm doing well. Thanks for checking in.

Thanks for asking. Super excited about the conversation that we're going to have here in just a few minutes we did. Andy, you called it a collaboration. Yeah. Yeah. So this episode is going to be collaboration. So our friend Jason Brick runs a podcast called the safest family on the block. And we decided we were going to do, you know, a show for each other. And then I said to him, like sometime this week, I said, Hey, Jason, how about we just do like one collab work smarter, right?

Not hard, you know, instead of recording for four hours a night, we can just record for two bingo. And so he said, that's perfect. So we recorded this episode and the interview that you're going to hear coming up right after this, after we stop talking and shut up, you will hear the interview with Jason that's going to be on his podcast and ours. So yeah. Wow. The power of the power of collaboration, Andy. I mean, that's really what makes this show go around.

You and I collaborating, us collaborating with other people, other people collaborate, so much collaborate. Listen. Oh my gosh. Well, hey, Andy, I'm super excited about this episode and look forward to sharing it with everybody. So and now here is our friend, Jason Brick.

We first off want to say this is going to be a collaboration show. So our guests tonight, our guests, we're, I can't really say guests, because we're on each other's show, but Jason Brick, welcome to our show. And we'll, we'll welcome ourselves to your show. We'll welcome ourselves. And impose ourselves. So I'm really glad to be here. So Jason, tell me a little bit about yourself. You know, what's your podcast? What's it about?

Sure. My podcast is Saisa's Family on the Block and it came from, I spent the first half of my adult life as a martial arts instructor, security consultant, did a little body guard work, a little bouncing work, that kind of thing. And then when my kids were school aged and running at karate school, which is an evening's a weekend's job meant to get to see them enough. I transitioned to journalism for the next half of my life.

Okay. And about three years ago, I combined the two of those into this podcast where I take my journalistic experience and my security expertise and I interview anybody who will talk about any aspect of child and family safety. So one week, it'll be a CIA agent talking about spotting bad guys. The next week, it'll be a suicide counselor about signs and prevention. And the next week, it'll be a nutritionist. Okay. Great. And then a little bit about us. We're the dudes and dads podcast.

We have a weekly or biweekly show that we talk to pretty much whoever too, that we think has a great story. So our topics range from Joel. I mean, we range from a lot of different things, grilling, bro smoking, brisket to pretty much anything. Yeah, pretty much anything. Yeah. So tonight we want to talk a little bit tonight about safety because that's again, what your podcast is about. And so let's start off the topic. What is safety to you as far as your family goes? Well, there's that.

I always forget who it was originally attributed to and it's misattributed about half the time I see it, but a quote about how having a child means being in the rest of your life and your heart running around outside your body. That, you know, as dads, you know that there's you didn't know what being afraid was until you had a kid. It's just a whole new level of fear and safety is keeping our kids alive, keeping them healthy, keeping them happy.

And hopefully with the long game, teaching them the skills they need to keep themselves safe and healthy when they're out on their own and in their own lives, their own kids without becoming paranoid. Definitely. Joel, what would you say it is for you? Well, you know, I think maybe this is the controversial part of the show. I like, I would say always like we want to keep our kids safe. So when I'm thinking about safety, I'm thinking about all the same things. I'm thinking about anymore.

We've had conversations about recently about online safety, digital safety, like what they're, what they're being exposed to in, yeah, in, in the, across the Internet's also, but just in terms of like things we do, Andy and I are both gun owners, you know, and it's like how we, you know, how we keep those things safe and keep and talk to our kids about, you know, about those things that around the house that could hurt them. And so it's, it's like, it's like those sort of things.

And at the same time, I as, I as a counselor and as a coach, like I often find people there is, there's also be unhealthy obsessions with safety because as I, as I always like to say, we're only chasing safety, which is a great title for a post hardcore band back in the year 2000.

So, so there's, there's a, I, for me, it's always this balance of talking about safety because for the longest time and doing youth work and things like that came across a lot of families that are obsessed with safety at the expense of the welfare of their children. So right, we're trying to, we're trying to walk that line well in a healthy way, I'm sure. So maybe that's something we can, we can dive into, but anyway, yep. And I would say for me, you know, same, same type of things.

I'm thinking trying to keep my kids safe as far as what could, not just kids, but family, what could come in to our, our house. Again, like you said, Joel, you know, being a gun owner, it's something that I'm taking seriously as far as like that safety in, in the house, I don't, you know, I've trained all of my kids really well as far as what, how to be safe with a gun. We've taken all of the older three have been through Hunter's Ed. They know, you know, all about safety.

In fact, sometimes they're more safe than I am with that gun. And you know, sometimes I'll go to take it from them and they'll like, wait, you have to say, you know, thank you and you're welcome and things before you grab it out of my hands. And sometimes that's stuff that I forget. So for me, yeah, it's about being, I would say protecting them as well as, you know, when I'm out and about and also teaching them, well, for internet safety, I myself am an IT professional.

And so for me, I'm teaching them, you know, my oldest two boys have just recently got Instagram. The three oldest kids have phones, but the boys have Instagram. So I, you know, went through the fact of, you know, don't put something online that you don't want anyone to see forever because even if you delete it, it may be out there forever, as well as, you know, don't friend people that you don't know in real life.

I mean, make sure to make their profiles, you know, private and so that they have to have, you know, they have to actually friend somebody before they can see it. And so we make that priority as well as even checking in on their phones. You know, we've said, here, these are your phones as far as they're yours, but they're also ours. Like we provide them for you.

And so we have an opportunity to take, we have the opportunity to grab that at any time and look at it and see what you're looking at and who your friends with her too. So that's kind of a nutshell as far as safety for me. Do you guys do one of those formal phone agreements with your kids? No, we have not. Oh, yes, tell us more. Oh, okay. So this, I got this idea from a woman named Kat Poe, one of the smartest people working in internet safety today.

And I applied it with my youngest, I oldest, I've got a 22 year old and a 12 year old. Okay. So, you know, I've got the rough draft and finished copy. But, um, so, and I only heard about this idea and trying to get the youngest one who just got his first phone. And it's a formal written document, like, which is a contract with about the defines, okay, well, here's the phone you're going to get. Mom and dad are going to pay for it. Dad's going to pay for it. Whoever's going to pay for it.

And then there's a section of your commitments as the parents. Things like we will respect your privacy within these boundaries. If you text us the code where we're going to come get you and save the day and we're not going to lecture you until the next morning. You know, all of those, right?

And then a section of the kids responsibilities and commitments about things like yeah, won't use it in the bathroom, won't use it in the bedroom, won't give personal contact information out to people, whatever your policy is on sexting and nudes, kids get older, of course, that policy changes. And then a section of, okay, what's going to happen if one of you breaks the rules? Sure. Right. And it's important to have those rules for the kid as well as the rules for the parents.

You know, one of mine is, um, I have a bad habit of texting while driving. And so when we sign it up, I put, okay, I won't text and drive. And if he catches me, he gets to pick the music for the rest of the trip. And that's just right there in the contract. So, and so it can be like harder, but it's A, it kind of teaches your kid a little bit about contracts and contract law. And B, it's written down, you know, it's all written down, very clear.

And then for me, one of the real powers of it is when they screw up, because our kids always will screw up. We get to sit down and it's the contract. Like, well, this is what it says, my hands are tied, your hands are tied. So what are we going to do? Right. You signed this contract and I signed it. Yeah. So how are we going to make this less miserable for you? Cause it ain't going to not happen. And we're finding that that's, yeah, it was a really good idea.

And we'll see, you know, we'll know in six months or a year how well I act. Sure. Joel, how about, how about for you, you guys have talked a little bit. None of your kids currently have phones, correct? Yes. We're, and as I said, we're, we're holding out as long as possible. Uh, we had our last, with her last guest on, you know, like, hey, you know, the question was asked how long we're going to go. And it's like, as long as absolutely possible without them having it.

And, um, you know, and, and we're in a situation right now where the, you know, my eldest will be 13 here next, uh, well, yeah, next year, November. So, um, we're kind of like, uh, we're in this place where we've done just fine with, we've just, we've done fine without those things. Um, but the day is coming. Uh, I like the, I like the contract under understanding and laying out.

I think, and we've said it so many times here on this show, so many of the things, many of the conversations that we need to have with our kids, it's a matter of just have the conversation, make sure it's done, make sure the expectations are clearly laid out. Cause it is cruel and unusual punishment to hold anybody, anybody of our kids or otherwise, uh, accountable to expectations that we're not clearly laid out. And, uh, so the contract idea is fantastic.

I always like, like you said, make the, uh, make the contract the bad guy. Um, yeah, put that, put that out there in, in front of them. Um, and, uh, you know, I, there's just, um, I really want to, and all of this. And I know Andy, I think you're in the same boat here.

I, we, I don't, I'm not looking to have a guilt or shame come into the, uh, the equation here when we're talking about these things, but rather, um, rightly pacing and with our kids and knowing, cause it's always like, I want kids to know, I want our kids to know that there are things out there that can harm them. There are, there are people that out there that do seek ill. Um, that, that is, that is a reality.

And yet, um, there's not a boogeyman behind every bush and, you know, and they don't, they don't have to live in fear. Uh, but nevertheless, uh, to be, to be cautious and things like that. So yeah, I think we're, we're at the early, uh, we're at the early stages. We've got a lot of, a lot of controls on things. Uh, everything is kind of, cause our kids are still very much within the nest kind of deal. Um, but the more, the more with more freedom, uh, comes more responsibility.

So yeah, that's actually why we ended up getting our youngest, his phone at this time where he's got a parkour class. It's a half a mile from the house and he's wanted to start walking there with a friend. And that was like his first kind of real big regular out of the house. I'm surprised. I'm going to show up somewhere that I won't hear immediately if you didn't show up kind of thing. So, Hey, here's your, here's your little, um, here's your tracker that you can also use to text your friends.

You know, but that kind of striking that balance of allowing that freedom while having that extra, that guard rail on there as well. Definitely. Let's talk a little bit about safety in, in the house. How do we keep our house safe? Um, Jason, let's start with you here. Uh, what, what do you guys do for safety in your own house? So a lot of training, you know, martial arts junkie.

And so as a big deal, one thing for example, we do is our fire extinguishers are the $20 home depot fire extinguishers at the high end, uh, professional ones can be recharging. So every year, just before the 4th of July, we go build a campfire in the backyard and blow out all of the old fire extinguishers. Everybody family uses them. And then we replace them with a new set.

So, you know, all of our kids have been, and you know, we've never seen a four year old with his goggles and, uh, gloves on, putting out a campfire with fire extinguisher. That's the happiest of human being on the planet. Right. And, and so we do a lot of those things. When, uh, when they were younger, we talked about things. I had a mentor in the martial arts who was very big on home safety. They did some games to send home with his students, his young students. So we played a lot of those.

One was had a little, a little big, uh, red dot sticker and give them to your toddler to run around and put them on the things in the house that they think might be a hazard and then talk about that. So why did you think this might be a hazard? Sometimes it's completely sensible. Sometimes it's completely nonsensical. And then later on you play an iteration where the parent does it and catches the one they miss.

And so using games and what if scenarios is talking about things, playing in ways that prepared them without making it scary. Gotcha. Joel, how about yourself? Yeah, I think about, uh, I think probably it's the, uh, it's the meetup spots, like if, like, okay, if there's a fight, if there's a fire, like how are we, how are we exiting the house and where, and what do we, where are we going to meet? What are we going to do? We've talked, we've talked about that.

Um, we've also just talked about not playing with fire and our, uh, Andy and I joke. So Andy and I both have, we have both have Boy Scouts and you know, they're, they're, uh, they're, they're taught, uh, how, how to handle fire, how to make fires in a safe way and what's, what's not in that there are actual consequences if they fail to, you know, fail to abide by certain, uh, certain guidelines and all that.

So I've actually, it's been a little bit comforting to me and, and my son's going to hear this show. He's the one, he, he has always most naturally been interested in starting things on fire. And so I just take a little bit of solace knowing that other men who are, uh, are trustworthy, uh, including Andy, uh, have overseen some of his education and those, and those things.

Uh, but, uh, yeah, you know, it's like, uh, I think as with anything, um, is there just so many of them having the conversations and thinking through, I mean, just thinking through really the high probability, the high probability stuff that's going to, that's going to happen. Um, we, you know, we obviously, we have, uh, gosh, we have, uh, like carbon monoxide detectors in the house, right? Whatever. And you know, we've even, but see ours go off. They go off when the batteries get low, right?

And whatever. And, and I will say we've had kids probably freak out a few times, like, cause they go off inevitably in the middle of the night, inevitably in the middle of the night. And it's like, and we're always like, is there, are we, no, no, it's a low battery. Okay. All right. Well, that's, that's great. Sorry to, sorry to scare all of you. So yeah, I think just go into the house. I have a nephew who, when he was six, learned how to perfectly mimic the little perp that the, oh yeah.

Yeah. And would mess with his mom day. Oh man. Yeah. Make the noise when she was out of the room. We come in, he'd be quiet. Yeah. Hey, I don't know what you're, I don't know what you're hearing. That's weird. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. I think for us, for us, uh, it's a lot of the like, like physical safety too. You know, we've met, we live out in the country. Uh, so there's not a lot of people coming up and down our road.

And so our kids are, I don't know that we actually ever train them to do this, but they're very suspicious of cars going up and down our road because there's not a lot to come up and down our road for. Right. I mean, you know all the cars, cars that are supposed to be on your road by and large. Right.

And so for us, we, you know, we've, they've, they're trained, like if they're playing outside, like it was almost, to not good, uh, to a point that, uh, that we had, um, our daughter would always run back in the house when there was someone even pulling up the driveway. So I think we might, Jason, are you still there? Oh, you are still there. Okay. Your video is not. Oh, maybe I can hear you kind of, there we go. There's your, your back. All right. Um, so yeah.

So yeah, so it was almost to the, to like a detriment where our, our daughter would, um, like if someone even like pulled into the driveway, like run into the house. I mean, it was safe. I'm glad she did that. It was our younger daughter too. Um, but even if we were like expecting somebody, she'd like run into the house and tell us, which is good. I mean, we've, you know, we've, we appreciate that she does that, but.

Yeah. I will say it makes me feel special over there because I was, I came over to your house to pick my chainsaw up and, uh, she just came out and greeted me warmly. Uh, I guess I'm right. I'm beyond stranger danger, uh, territory, which is good. So yeah. And then I'd say to you, we've also like, that's actually a really, and that's, that's a really good illustration of one of the, you know, one of the situational awareness, tactical things about, um, descriptive events, right?

For baseline is people not driving on the street, on the driveway or on the road outside. And of course, you know, when you're taking it, paying attention tactically, what you're looking for is changes. So anything that's different from the norm, that's when you kind of, you know, your spider sense tingles, you start mere catting around or you go get your dad. She's doing the right thing. Yeah, she is. And she's still, yeah, she's still good at it.

I mean, obviously now, you know, she knew Joel and knew he wasn't coming over to harm her. For a chainsaw massacre. But, uh, we also, we also have, you know, make sure, um, my son, one of my sons is here in the studio with us tonight and he's very, very methodical on every night. Like he'll check the door just to make sure that they're locked. Um, even, even if I've already done it and he knows that I've already done it, he'll go in there and just to make sure that they're locked.

Um, so we, we've always, we always do that. I'm, you know, for myself, I'm, I'm always locking the door as I go out, even if I'm going to be, you know, even like on the way over here tonight, even though my wife is home, like I locked the door. Uh, I make sure that's locked when I leave, uh, just because I want them to be safe. Um, you know, I know that she can, she can handle herself too, but I know that there's no reason that we need to put herself in danger if someone were to try to walk in.

And so, you know, I'm, I'm always constantly locking the doors. Well, you put your seatbelt on every time, even though you're not likely to get in a wreck, even though you're a good driver, you lock the door when you leave, even if the person at home is also able to handle themselves. It's just, it's just good sense. Yeah. So Jason, this is your show too. Uh, so anything you want to talk about, uh, tonight, this is a good list, guys, this is the first time we've done a collaboration show.

So I don't want to hog the whole, whole show. Yeah. So I'd love to hear about, you know, what's, what is worrying you guys or the other dads that you're talking to? What's, what's, what's bothering folks? What are some, you know, either things that you worry about, you don't have a good solve for, or there's those myths of safety that are out there that are, you know, just wrong and actively harmful. And what are some that you hear over and over again that are bothering you?

Um, since we're recording this just before Halloween, you know, the myth of people tampering with Halloween candy is one that just gets my hackles up every year. You know, you know how many times the, as stranger has poisoned a child's Halloween candy and hurt them in a significant way since 1950? Probably not very many. Zero. Zero. No time. Yeah. Yeah. There was a stepdad who wanted more time with his wife who poisoned his stepkids back in like the 70s.

And then there was that a Tylenol poisoning thing in the 80s. But that was a guy murdering his wife and setting it up to murder a couple of a couple of local people as well to make it look like a serial killer who got his wife. So a stranger tampering with your candy, let alone giving your child drugs, which are expensive. Right. Yeah. It's goofy, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, where were all these guys distributing kids drugs when I was in time?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, something I'm, I guess, worrying about is just like overall their safety. Like when, you know, our kids are just getting to the point now where they're, you know, my oldest is 16 and I have three other kids, you know, all the way down to six. And so my oldest three are just starting to, the oldest are two boys and then the two girls. And so the oldest three are just starting to get to the point where they are starting to do more outside the home.

Our kids are all homeschooled up until this last year. Last year they were, it was their first year in public school. And so for me, I would say stuff that I worry about are things, you know, like them going out more and staying out later. And I'm, you know, I'm trying to not have irrational fears on that because obviously things are going to happen and I can't necessarily protect them at all times. You know, it's my job and I can teach them how to be safe in situations.

But since this is just something they're starting to get into a little more, it's like, okay, I got to let the reins off a little bit as a day out of all, still trying to keep, like teach them how to handle situations well. And that's a really tricky thing to balance, I think, for everybody.

Yeah. And there's that idea that, you know, we could keep our kids bubble wrapped, you know, for as long as possible and then send them out of the world, but that doesn't teach them how to handle stuff on their own. Right.

Or it sounds like you guys have had those conversations about, well, what would you do if, and you've had your conversations, when you've had to discipline them in ways where they trust you as their safe place, so that if things get totally out of hand, they're going to come to you asking for help and not try to hide it from you because they know you're going to tantam. Right. And that's one of the things that we've done to with the kids and their cell phones, the oldest three have cell phones.

And we've said, again, at any time, you can text us, you know, like Jason, like you said earlier, like, no matter what the situation is, no matter where you're at, you can always call us and well, if you need out of the situation, we'll come get you, no matter what. And so, yeah, that's one of the things we kind of drill through their, their head. Yeah. It's been interesting here recently. So, yeah, and I won't, I won't, I won't name which kid.

I don't want to, I'm not, it's not an embarrassing thing, but it's the thing that you kind of, you're like, hmm, that's interesting. So I opened up my, I opened up my laptop the other day and there's a Wikipedia search for Jeffrey Dahmer on it. And I was like, hmm, that's interesting. That wasn't me. Yeah, that was not me. And then, and I'm going to forget the guy's name. The other guy, this killed his family back in 2018 out in Colorado. Everything happens out in Colorado.

I don't know what the deal is. It's like either middle Florida or Colorado, but. It's Colorado because they love guns and they love wheat. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so this, this guy, it was like he had like a mistress or whatever and he had a wife and two kids and she was expecting their third child and he like, he like, he, he killed all of them. And it was this whole elaborate, it became this whole thing. And he ended up getting like multiple life sentences as, as he should have.

But so I see like, like one of my kids is like looking these things up, like doing research on this. And I'm, you know, I have young children and that, you know, honestly, I mean, it catches you a little bit off, a little bit off guard. And it's like, okay, how do we have a conversation about why are, where did the interest in this come from? And first of all, how did you even hear about, how did you even hear about this?

I mean, in recent years and right now, like Netflix is heavy, heavy, heavy on the serial killers. Like that's been, they've been, been all in. And as someone who works in mental health a lot and I have like a general interest in like criminal psychology and things like that. Kind of like as a hobby, cause it's just a matter of like, how do people's minds work, right? Like I get that I'm interested in that.

Even though it leads to, I mean, some really dark and terrible places and really horrible things. So it was a conversation that we had and it was like, hey man, I'm wondering just what, what, what drove you to all this, like what made you interested in it. And basically what it comes down to is it's what those two individuals right now, cause I think there's actually two Netflix, uh, well there's a series right now, Dom or the series. And then there's been an adjoining, uh, documentary.

And then there was another documentary on this other, this other individual that armed his family. And it's what the kids are talking about in school. Like this is, this is the conversation that they're having, uh, on a regular basis about these, about these people. I mean, let's be honest to your, your kids, your oldest is, he's only 13. Well, he'd be 13. So I have a seventh grader, sixth grader and a third grader.

Yeah. And the oldest and then, and then Molly, who's still, uh, she's a first grade in innocent and well, you know, again, youngest child, she can do no wrong. So I don't know. But yeah, it's, you know, but those are, I guess those, like those sort of fears, it's like, okay, what, what, what is in flute? Like why again, out of all the things that we could lift up and pay attention to, why is it the kid? Why is it the mass murderers?

Why is it the, you know, and, and we're amongst kids that are, you know, 11, 12 years old. And, uh, you know, so I do, I think there's probably a pretty, a pretty significant concern on my end about like, hmm, why, why all the attention conversation around this. And there's a lot of other really notable characters in history that have, you know, contributed great things to our society and not mass murder or cannibalism. So, uh, you know, just throwing it out there.

We got some other options, maybe look into those things. And, and leading by examples, often the, you know, the way to, a way to do that, you know, but making sure that, you know, we, when we, I was growing up, we had garbage pail kids, right? Oh yeah. You know, kids are always going to be interested in the gross and the violent and the profane. It's just harder growing up.

And so besides the whole murder podcast thing, that has been a thing for about 10 years now, um, I'm married to a woman who's a huge fan of that. Um, but, uh, besides that, I think that there's always that fascination. And so like you're talking about making sure the conversation's not judgmental. And I liked how you kind of described it. Hey buddy, can I ask, I'm curious more than anything else here. Yeah. Right.

You know, um, although it is disturbing to think about like a middle schooler and that that's the talk around from school. Yeah. Yeah. Although what was it? Any reasons why it came out, right? But it was talking about suicide. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And those are, I mean, again, those, you know, that those are going to be conversations eventually.

I, my biggest concern is all just on their mental emotional development, meeting up with the topics at hand and them having, them having space and understanding to process those things. Uh, versus it's like, yeah, I'm not, I don't trust their peers to be the guiding, the guiding force of that conversation. No, not at all. And I think it's, it's important as parents too. So we stay on top of it and we know what the things are popular. We know what people are talking about.

So that way, you know, Joel, obviously you kind of had the framework of going, okay, Netflix has this series going on. So you knew that whoever, whichever your kids were that we're searching it probably weren't looking because they wanted to be a serial killer. Right. But you, you also were able to kind of just stay ahead of the curve and go, okay, this is something that I'm talking about. So you know how you can address that.

And it doesn't necessarily take you as off guard as it would if you were not, you just had your head in the sand. Yeah, right. And, and we had, uh, it also led to another conversation around like, uh, uh, like, Hey, do you know what those, uh, those Netflix specials, do you know what they're rated? Do you know, and like trying to help him understand cause it's like, Hey, do you know the shows that you guys watch that we allow you guys to watch? Do you know what the ratings are?

Okay. And they're able to name that. And it's like, you know, those Netflix ones are rated and he's like, well, uh, you know, not, not PG and I'm like bingo. So what does that maybe say about, about what? Yeah. About the appropriateness of the con. You know, I'm just, I'm just trying to help him make, you know, make the, make the connections. Cause again, we're making these decisions for them now, but they are going to have to make them for themselves eventually.

So, you know, give some parameters and hopefully it's helpful. Yeah. I used to with my oldest, my youngest hasn't, he's for some reason, hasn't really gotten very curious about the tough stuff yet. My oldest was very curious from very early and I was telling him, okay, but this is a class of mega conversation. I will answer you with 100% honesty. You cannot unhear the answer to that. Yeah. Yeah. So do you, are you sure you want to move forward with this question or can we address it later?

Yeah. Half the time he'd ask and I'd tell him as, you know, as honestly as I could. And then sometimes he'd go, oh man. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, but you address it as openly as honestly as you can. And I share your concerns that because of the internet and because of the ubiquity of content, I think our kids are being exposed to really disturbing things way earlier than they need to. Agreed. And I don't, I don't think we can put that genie back in the bottle.

So I think we just need to be prepared to deal with the ramifications. Yeah, definitely. Let's talk a little bit about, you know, safety in public, in public places, you know, we've talked about at home, we've talked about, let's talk, let's talk about safety in public. Jason, I'll let you start. How do you keep your family safe while you're in public? So we've, we've, we have systems in place, right? I got the advice of a couple of very high-end bodyguards.

When I say a decent bodyguard work, this was like driving a guy who owned a couple of restaurants on dates because he wanted the girl to think he was important enough to have a bodyguard kind of stuff, right? But I have some mentors and friends who are high, high-functioning people in that, in that area. And they gave me some very good advice about kind of applying squad tactics to your family at appropriate ages.

Okay. For example, there's a concept from a guy named Tom Pateri called security blanket. When you're with your partner and your kids, one adult or if you're with your teens, like the oldest kid is blanket and then the adult is secure. And the other one is security. Blanket is responsible for the safety of everything within the family. You're making sure the shoes are tied. You're making sure everybody's crossing the street together.

You're checking to make sure if anybody's hungry or needs to go to the bathroom. And then security is responsible for everything outside the family. So you're checking traffic. You're making sure that those two young men over there are walking their own way and not suspiciously near you. You're paying attention to the map or the GPS or whatever. And just, uh, it's an example of how to kind of formally communicate with and divvy up the security and safety responsibilities of the family. Gotcha.

Joel, how about yourself? Yeah, that's a good question. Um, try to think of the things that we, we try to pay. We try to pay attention to when we're out, when we're out and about, um, I can, I mean, I'll go ahead and start. I don't know that I do the greatest job all the time, but I try to pay attention to what's going on around our family to, um, Eli, it's here with us tonight.

We'll probably say no. Uh, there was, there was one time we were walking downtown Philadelphia and we were like, there's a homeless guy that was talking to somebody else and I kind of was making a quick beeline around him cause I was like, I don't want to have this conversation. Yes. And he like stepped out in front of Eli and Eli was like, uh, and later was like, thanks dad, you left me here. Oh, yeah. Uh, so, um, yeah.

So that was one of the things that I don't maybe necessarily do the best at, but, um, you like, what did you say here? Oh, I just said that that guy grabbed onto my arm. I'm like, I don't want to. So, so yeah. Oh no. Uh, so yes, that, that was one of the things I think that I do for, for safety out, you know, I'm always like you said, Jason, I'm looking for things that are abnormal to, to kind of try and avoid those.

And now when they are abnormal, I don't necessarily handle them the right way, but I do try to look for those type of things out, um, and make, and kind of avoid, avoid those.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess on my end, I would say, you know, we're always looking for, um, well, I really, if we tell her, we've told our kids, we've told our kids this and this week that we've said over late, like, Hey, uh, it is way harder for someone to, uh, harm you guys if you were all together versus you being split, you split up or at distance or whatever from each other. And, and I have to tell my, I have to, and again, my eldest, Aaron will hear this. Uh, he, he, how, how should I say this?

He does not naturally gravitate toward being aware of others around him. And so we've had just to overtly say like, Aaron, you cannot walk away from your brother and sister when we're, when we're, like when we're, when we're out, like if mom and dad are like focusing on dealing with something here, you can't just like be like, okay, guys, I'm going to do my, I'm going to do my own thing.

Like you, you are the, you are, you are have some responsibilities, which I think is like you said, um, it's starting to impart those, especially on, you know, I've, again, you know, uh, Aaron is getting to the point here when he turns 13, I have some things specifically that he and I will do to kind of this kind of to usher him into his early manhood and to like kind of put a, a flag in the sand a little bit to say, okay, and now we're going to have these

kind of conversations about your responsibility to the family, um, uh, which will come with, which will come with, uh, there'll be benefits to this. There will be, you know, there'll be things, but part of it is, is going to be like, I need you to think of yourself as a little bit more of a protector of especially your youngest, like your youngest sister and things like that and just be, yeah, it just be more aware. That's the big thing.

I think when we're out in public, it's like, guys, like you, the fly information and it's needed to stay in formation and, and, and not get, uh, not get, not get separate, which, uh, is always a fun, is always a fun thing. I think to Mike, my older two, you know, the boys do a pretty good job at taking care of their, you know, their sisters too. Like if there's some things awry in, when we're out, especially like they're going to take care of, they're going to look after

them. They're going to make sure that, that they're taking care of. So that's, you know, what Eli was thinking, wouldn't it be fun if we went like, if I, if we did, like we planned like a surprise, like a surprise, like a surprise ambush and just see how you guys reacted and just take you out into public and we like your dad and I just like, we, uh, we just, we just put people in place just to try to like, like snag, like snag Hattie on the run. That'd be, that'd be,

that'd be a good time. It'd be terrifying and probably traumatic, but we could really learn some things. Man, let's not, you do fire drills. So why not? Sure. Right. Yeah. We're doing kidnapping drill today, kids. Be on the lookout. Don't be alarmed. Maybe that's not a good idea. You know, bad decisions lead to good stories. Yeah. That's true. That's true. You know what? If I was a real friend, Andy,

here's what I would do. I wouldn't even tell you. I would just follow you guys and then try to kidnap one of your children and we just, we would have a learning experience. Oh, that'd be terrible. Ely thinks it's a great idea. He's dying over here. That's great. Good. All right. So Jason, when you're teaching, when you're teaching safety to, to people or you're talking about safety, what are some of the things that we may have not talked about tonight that we need to be aware of?

So one of the big ones is, um, how bad an idea, strange or danger turned out to be and why we should not teach it under any circumstances. Are you guys hip to this? No. Oh, I'm, I'm intrigued because we always joke about stranger danger. It's like a, it's like a joke, but we don't really know where that comes from. So, you know, I, it came out of the eighties around the same time as just say no, and was another well intentioned, completely ineffectual

thing. And what they found out was, uh, so first of all, don't talk to strangers is bad advice because the adults don't follow that advice ever because we're talking to strangers confidently every time we buy something at the supermarket, right? We're not modeling it. Another thing is that because of the way strangers were described in classrooms and by parents at the time this came out, uh, there was this disconnect to about what a stranger was.

There was a study where they had kids drop pictures of strangers and they often had horns and fangs. And another study where they would give a kid, give kids, you know, don't talk to strangers, don't go with strangers for education. And then during recess, have strangers approach them and lead them off of the playground with like 95% success rates. And when the kids were asked later, why did you go with that stranger?

The answer was usually something along the lines of, well, he wasn't a stranger. He was nice. Oh. Yeah. And then on top of that, if our, if our child needs help, they have to talk to a stranger because if there's an adult they know around, they don't need help. They're getting help. Right. So don't talk to strangers if you can get separated from you at the fair or they take a left at the mall or what have you, or they get lost in the woods or whatnot. That leaves them with very few resources

to participate in their own rescue. Sure. And so, so the better thing to talk to our kids about is, okay, if you can't find us, what's the best safest stranger to approach? That's good. Right. And that starts, and that starts with the stranger you approach will be safer than the stranger who approaches you. Right. Just, just from the, the laws of motivation. And then the second one is go find an adult with children.

You know, for the little kids, when I was teaching my, run my karate school, that would be if you can't find your family, find someone else's family. And that might be a mom with their kids, a dad with their kids, a couple with kids, might be an older sibling with younger siblings, might be a nanny with their kids and uncle taking the kids out on a date. But whatever that constellation is, that is statistically very safe

for a child to approach for help. And also the adults in that group will probably be highly motivated to help unite a child with their adult. Right. I mean, if a kid came up to you and you're with your kids and like crying, I can't find my daddy. You know, it's record scratch that plan for the day is over now. The plan for the day is now helping this guy. Yeah. Right. Because as a parent, you know, yeah, as a parent, you know that fear and so you're like ready to go.

You have a high empathetic response, very, very high empathetic response. It does make me think of a scenario. We were at a, we were at a football game, a junior football league game a few weeks ago. And there's a little girl who's like standing off by herself just, just crying. You know, it's at that scene, like just crying. She's lost her mom in the field of parents that are, you know, that are watching the game.

And, you know, but I thought to myself, like, now another mom saw, you know another mom's radar went off, saw the little girl when, when it approached her and they found, they found mom after just a minute of searching. But, you know, there was that experience with that little girl of she just, I mean, she just froze. Yeah. And, and didn't like, didn't feel that she could approach anybody.

Her only response, which is terrible is to stand. It was like to stand in the middle of a walkway, just crying, you know. Well, honestly, we had that same experience this year at a, at a football game too. Like we had, there was a girl crying and like frantically, like she found somebody else to go, you know, talk to or someone else saw that and he came up and then we ended up meeting my wife going and trying to find other people. Like she's, the girl was old enough to know that

like who her grandma was or her grandma's first name. And so like, my wife is starting to put two and two together as far as, okay, I think I know who this lady is that her grandma is. And so we were trying to, we went up to the, you know, announcement booth and we're trying to talk to him and figure it out. But yeah, Jason, at your point, like finding somebody who has like a family is a great thing because they're highly motivated. Like as soon as I saw that girl crying, I was like,

Oh no, that could be my daughter. Yeah. And so for me, I immediately sprung into action. Yeah. That's, that's from a book called Protecting the Gift. That's the follow up to Gavin de Becker's gift. And it is, it is the best advice about how to talk to our kids about strangers. And then what we can do is to get a little older. We're near a restaurant, for example, to sit down and say, Hey, if I wasn't here, if you walked into this restaurant looking for me and had to ask one

of the people here for help, who would you ask? And then talk about it. Right. And as I get older, okay, which of these people will you not ask? And then talk about that. And those are some ways to kind of to get your kids involved in seeing to their own safety of looking at the world in a way that not only identifies a trouble spot, but also, you know, you're sitting down there and read Robin with your kids and say, Okay, who, who here is

going to would be helpful to you? They'll look around and 90% of the people in the room would be safe to approach and a good idea to approach. And they get to see that too. You're like, Mr. Rogers, they look for the helpers. That's good. Good. Joel, any, anything, any questions we're going to talk about? I'm trying to, I think we've, man, you've, you've talked about all the, all the things. I'm trying to think about what, like, what is the, what is the scariest?

What is the scariest situation that your kids can really, can really find themselves in? I'm just trying to think of like, if we've had any instances of real, of some sort of level of danger or, or, or peril where, oh, well, like, like even like water, like water safety. This is like, that was another thing. So, so we live out here by Lake Michigan is not too far away from us.

Lake Michigan is the deadliest of all of the Great Lakes, primarily just because the most people are in Lake Michigan and we've got some good, oh gosh, it was the rip, it's the rip, the riptide and things that all, that will happen occasionally. And isn't it, it's straight up hypothermia water too. It's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. It will be a good portion of the year.

You're, if you fall out of a boat in like the deeper water, you're near, you're, even if it's like warm weather or whatever, you could be, you could be in trouble. But, you know, it was one of the, it's one of those things where, now there was a whole other situation where we knew going, going out into the water or whatever, that periodically this can, this can happen.

And it was like, it was a conversation about, so I think this, I think this scenario applies to other things where there's a particular tactic that you, there's some awarenesses of knowing when it's happening. Number one, tactics that you use if you find yourself caught in one and what, what you should do and what you should not do. The biggest thing is you don't, you don't fight like in the rip current thing, you run, you, you swim hard parallel with the shore as opposed to trying to just swim

directly back to the shore. That's how, that's why people die is basically they, that cause they're, they're so exhausted, they end up, they end up drowning.

And I think, you know, so we've, we've been, we were in a situation where we were in very, very shallow water at the beach one, you know, with like things we're finding all of a sudden, like I'm, like I'm, like I'm only up to, I don't know, probably just my little bit below my waist and all of a sudden I'm getting, like when the, when the water's going back out, like it's, it's pulling me hard. And that's what I really just looked at all my children

right then there who are all getting the water. I said, just went out and we were, and we were, and we were, and we were done right then and there and how, how quickly it happened. But I thought to myself, if one of them had been in that situation, like I was aware of it cause I was like looking for it and paying attention to it. If one of them had been in a situation like that, would they have gone to the,

would they have gone to the training? Cause so much of what you're talking about really is, is having the conversation ahead of time, being proactive where their response is not panic,

but rather, you know, there's a training to it. They go, they go to a course of action just like any, I mean, just like any military person does, just like any person that's in a particular, you know, I've been in, I've watched pilots when, when things go wrong in an airplane or whatever, they go, they go to their training like immediately, like they, like a machine, you know, and there's a, I think a point of that where it's kind of trying to figure out what your kid is ready for in that,

in that line of, hey, in this situation, these are potential real potential dangers that things have actually happened. I'm not making this stuff up. So if this happens, just like you said in the restaurant scenario and all of that, hey, what would you do? How would you, how would you handle that? Well, and I think, you know, what I've heard throughout this whole conversation tonight is training, questioning, repeating.

Like there, you know, that's the, that's the goal here. Cause, you know, you're going to train them how to do something. You're going to ask them how to do it. I know maybe not, you know, set up my kidnapping, like Joel said, but, you know, it was a, okay, first of all, first of all, some people are like, Joel's really twisted that he came up with us all on his own.

I'm just saying, I'm just saying, but, but that's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing, you know, training them, repeating them, you know, repeating it to them as well as, you know, going through mock situations and then, you know, retraining them again and again and again. Cause I think, you know, it's been proven over and over and over again that, you know, when there's a situation going on,

like you, you know, you're there going to fight or flight. And I think that that, like, if you're not trained in that, you're going to panic and not know what to do. And then that's when, you know, you're going to be getting in trouble. Cause you don't, you don't know what to do if you have not done that, repeating, repeating, repeating. And like, like you said, Jason, you know, being at a restaurant and say, okay, if I wasn't here and you couldn't find me, who do you trust?

Like, you know, kind of quizzing them on that over and over and over again. So that way, when they're in that situation, they know immediately, okay, you know, dad and I have worked through this situation before. This is who I go to and they do. You don't, you don't rise to the occasion. You fall to your level of training. That's, that's key. There are extraordinary stories of people rising to the occasion, but they're extraordinary stories.

They're not what I'm going to count on for my kids participating in their own rescue. Yep. And that's, I think that's the thing. Maybe for our listeners, you know, just as a consideration for your family, what are, what are the conversations you need to have about real potential dangers, whether that natural disaster, fire, getting separated in public, you know, home security, things like that.

Or if there's, you know, if there are particular dangers on, maybe on your property, maybe there are some very specific things that are specific to where you live. Maybe go through that list and then have a conversation appropriate to the level of, you know, where your kids are at age wise. I think that's probably one of the big, the big takeaways I think here for this conversation is just, is just to think about that.

So many of the things that we talk about, Andy and I talk about, as I'm sure it is with you, is just slowing down for a second and kind of considering, considering the things that we would normally overlook in our daily lives and just paying attention to that and having a conversation about it. Cause that can be, make all the difference, I think. Yeah. Well, I think this has been a great, this has been a great conversation. Jason, do you have anything else you'd like to put in here?

You know, I think we've talked with a lot of stuff. Well, just the last one, the last one, one of the most important pieces of advice that prized me a little bit. But once I thought about it and went, oh, duh, is one of the best things we can do for the safety of our kids is volunteer at their schools. Go coach the chess team, go cut out art supplies in the back of the classroom. And if possible, don't just volunteer in their classroom.

That way you get to know the layout of the school, you get to know the people of the school. They know your face, they become more likely to interest you on your child's behalf. It's easier if you need to go and talk to a principal because maybe your child had to stop a bully. I know a lot of schools, the person who stops a bully in theory gets in as much trouble as the child, as the bully.

Unless you're the guy who coaches the wrestling team and the chess team and comes to all the PTA meetings and takes the principal aside and says, dude, really? And there's so many advantages to just taking the time, making the time to volunteer in some way at your school. It's not nearly as much fun as getting on the mat or going to the range, but it is much more concrete good work towards the safety of your kids and the other kids in your community.

Yeah, definitely. Well, thanks for joining us tonight. We're going to do two things before we let you go. We're going to do the pop quiz, but I would like to also tell our listeners where you can find your podcast at and then we'll tell you. Save His Family on the Block. Save His Family on the Block is on YouTube. Just go there and you can find, we're in our ninth season right now. Yeah, our ninth season.

And you can find everybody from parenting coaches to mental health specialists to special forces guys. One of my more interesting ones was the guy who spent his early career in Marine Force Recon and then the second half of his adult career as an administrator and teacher in public schools. He has a unique viewpoint on school safety. I bet. Interesting. It's been a lot of fun. I've been very, very, very surprised and pleased by the quality of people who have wanted to come on the show.

Great. That's awesome. And for us, you can find us at dudesanddadspodcast.com or YouTube or any other place that podcasts are at. The Spotify is the Amples, the places where, yeah, you stream your stuff. Check it out. We're there. We're there. All right. So before we let you go, though, we're going to do the dudes and dads pop quiz.

It's time for dudes and dads pop quiz. All right. Thank you, Aaron. All right. So this is the time where we just randomly ask questions. We'll ask questions. If you ask questions to us, it doesn't necessarily have to do with safety and just to get to know you better. So, Joel, you want to kick it off? I am. Okay, Jason. Here we go. What are you most excited about right now? What I'm most excited about right now is that I just, I'm shipping the first batch of books from, in fact, kill me.

Oh, here we go. This book right here. This book right here. There I was when nothing happened. Awesome. It's like violence professionals, the cops, soldiers, spies, bouncers, martial arts experts, each to share a story about a time that they avoided violence through de-escalation, situational awareness, avoiding injury through rapid flight. And it's come out really well and the people who participated blow my mind and it's getting good reviews on Amazon.

I'm just really jazzed about the whole thing. I actually am heading out on the second leg of the book for later this week. Nice. And we'll make sure we get, we'll get that on the show notes for sure, Jason. Yes, definitely. For sure. Definitely. Yeah. All right. My first question is, if you could send a message to the entire world, what would you say in 30 seconds? In 30 seconds? I'd say, come listen to more podcasts with smart people. Awesome. Talking about important things. That's good.

There's a lot of information out there, guys. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, Jason, who is your favorite hero of fiction? Favorite hero of fiction is Horatio Hornblower. Oh. I don't know. Do you guys, do you either of you ever read his tall ship, Sarah Sea Cap, written in the 19th century, I want to say. And his thing is that he always pulls it out. He always succeeds. But his internal dialogue the entire time is how morbidly afraid he is of screwing it up. Interesting.

He'll be striding the decks, firing things, giving orders and thinking in the back of his head, if I lose this battle, I'm going to lose my commission. I'm going to be on shore on half pay and my wife's going to have to be in a poor house and just catastrophizing. Wow. That's wrong. And so then he does the right thing. And I think a lot of parents can identify with that. Yeah. All right, Joel. How am I screwing this up so badly? You're up. I just did it. Oh. Oh, no, you're right.

Wow. I'm off tonight. What do you, when you die, what would you want to be remembered for? Just from having left the place better than I found it, in some particular way, especially just through my kids, my family. My family does not have a tree. We have a thicket. My oldest son is was adopted. His, his mom became medically incapable of caring for her for him. And she was the foster daughter of my mom's best friend. Oh, my youngest son was homegrown through a previous marriage.

And now we have kind of a bonus son who's the half brother of the oldest son whose parents died in a car wreck. And now he's come up here to go to college. And that's just a small microcosm of how brambly. I dig, I dig your story, Jason. I love it, man. That's beautiful. Yeah. I just, just those guys, I hope, you know, I hope they're out there in the world doing good. Yeah. Jason, which living person do you most admire? My grandmother. If that counts. Yeah, absolutely.

She, she turned 100 this year. She was a pharmacist in 30s and the 40s. Got divorced because it was the right thing to do back in a time when divorced women were not well thought of, raised, raised my mom and her kids. She lives across the street from me now in a retirement home and loves to play cards against humanity. You know, she's just full of, full of piss and vinegar. And if I can, if I can carry on her legacy, have as well, she carried on her peoples. I feel like I've done an okay job.

That's awesome. Great. And then my last question is when you think about success, what comes to mind and why? Fulfilling my responsibilities and because that's, that's what brings me the most joy. Looking at the people that rely on me and knowing that they're, they're safe and okay and going to go off and take care of themselves. Great. Do you have any questions for us? Absolutely. Okay. What was the last time you were in a mosh pit? Oh, okay. Here we go. Let's see.

This would have been September 1999. Whoa. You can give it a month. Yeah. It was, it was an mxpx show. Oh, that's it. And, uh, let me see. I was in the, the dirtiest club that I've ever been in, in, uh, in Toledo, Ohio. Holy smoke. We walked out of the club after it was all done. We took our shirts off and just threw them in the trash. That's how, that's how bad it was. True punk rock. I don't know if this one was my last time, but it was probably my most memorable time.

I was at this concert and it was so hot and so sweaty and they're like sweat was condensing on the air conditioner and falling. It was disgusting. But, but I got taken out by security because they said that I punched somebody, which I didn't do. I, how are they going to tell? I had a headband on, but you know, bandana, but like, I did not punch anybody. And he's a lover. He's not a fighter. They should, they should know that.

Yeah. And actually funny fact, uh, that same concert, the nearly end, someone had pulled the fire alarm at the, in the building. So like, you could, like they exited everybody out and there's a recording of it and you can hear at the very end of the recording, like on the live album for this, this concert. That's fantastic. You can hear it. So the fire alarm is going off. There's exits here and here and here. It was great. Yes. All right. And favorite books. Oh. Oh my gosh.

Um, oh, you know what my favorite? Honestly, recently, my favorite book has been, and I read this just a little while, well, it's a little while ago now is, uh, green lights, Matthew McConaughey. Uh, all right, all right, all right. I, I dug, I dug that book. I really did. I thoroughly enjoyed it at multiple levels. So I'm, that's the one I'm going to, I'm going to say right now. So, so for me, it would be any book about the Enneagram. I'm a big Enneagram person.

I love the personality types of the Enneagram. So I've, I've dug, you know, reading about others, reading about myself, but, and then my son, Eli has a, wants to answer this question too. So my favorite book series is the Wing Feather Saga. It's a fantasy fictional book. It's really great. The Wing Feather Saga. Yeah. All right, check it out. All right. Very cool. I would recommend that to my boy. He's wrapping up, um, Rick Riordan's entire body of work. Uh-huh.

So he's, he's going to be looking for some more fantasy. Wing Saga. Wing like, uh, dragon. Yeah. Wing Feather. Wing Feather Saga. Wing Feather. Yeah. Okay. Epic. I will check that out. Cool. Well, thank you gentlemen. Yeah.

This was really fun. Thank you. And then I'll tell you one for the ages, uh, so many things to think about. Hope it was helpful to everybody. And, uh, as always guys, you can, uh, catch us over at dudesanddadspodcast.com. And show notes, all the good stuff. All, all of those good things. And if you would like to send us feedback, it's just at 574-213-8702 is our voicemail number. It's again, it's a voicemail number. You're not going to interrupt Joel or I sleep. Nope. Thank you.

Thank you for that. And that's podcast at gmail.com with all of your helpful emails and, uh, the non-helpful ones too. We love them. We love them. Thanks so much. As always guys, you can, uh, like us, share us all that, appreciate everything. And so yeah, until next time, we wish you grace and peace.