oh ah hello so is that just all un recording correct that's funny well we're having a conversation anyway all right well on the live on the social media they might have heard it right off the phone hey guys someone caught it looks like a great absolutely we really appreciate you being here all right well in that case let's kick this off again that's right Andrew take two run it here we go hello hello hello and welcome to season six episode 37 of Dualistic Unity I am enjoying this conversation
about paying attention and being involved and allowing things to to play out and not hold yourself back you know from admitting when you're not paying attention no because if that's there and it's like okay there isn't so much of a fight to like maintain because it's like oh I should be paying attention should be paying attention because that then overlays you know the attention you are paying and part of me so badly wants to say the same thing I said after the after the intro but you know it'll
probably come up at some point if if we get there whoever knows what it is because we're paying attention to here and now and what I love hello listener you don't know this but prior to us recording this intro we actually already recorded an intro in about 12 minutes of an episode without realizing that the microphone was not working and what I find fascinating about about that is I checked the microphone settings before we started but I missed that there were
two microphones under Yeti because we were trying to install our new uh our new system for podcasting yesterday and so in this episode about paying attention I didn't pay attention we missed something I missed something and there's the opportunity again well because while you're saying the introduction here I could have been judging myself for missing that thing and then missing everything that you said and thus missing the lesson that I'm going through right now because
that's really where we were going with this yeah is the fact that each and every moment is an opportunity to learn more about yourself but not the conceptual self and not as an action not as an action where you are rigorously taking notes about yourself there's no actual thought about yourself that's necessary whatsoever because you are a continuously growing intelligence that intelligence does not require you to be in there doubting it it is already keeping in mind everything it's ever
experienced which brought us to the topic of attention and depth yes yes absolutely and when we're saying that you are a growing intelligence it's not the you that you want it to be it's certainly not that you are this intellectual wizard who is learning the Mastery of attention it's that we reality this moment is is a growing intelligence that is always bringing up what is relevant and that's usually and I dare say always the only thing that's available in this moment are the things
that are relevant to this moment so you don't ever have to look for missing pieces or something else that will be that final thing that that additional Next Step there's nothing to do because everything that is relevant to the moment that you're in is already there so when you're just paying attention to what's there you're developing that sensitivity and you're making use of everything that's already relevant and available to you in this moment so there's nothing else to look for and
there's nothing else to do but in paying attention which is always an option not a requirement but it's always a choice you can take that in it of itself is just right with potential and opportunity and there everything else kind of figures itself out and then things just happen to make sense instead of making you the idea feel better and that's that point of panic that we talked about early in the episode that was not recorded that was a warmup was that when you allow yourself to Simply
Be the intelligence that you are to continue on understanding that you're always taking in information you are always considering all of that information whether you think you are or not that means that you're not going through the list of thoughts and doubts and fears about what could happen What might happen what did happen and what it means about you all the time so now all of a sudden there's this space there is this space where you find yourself actually just sitting in a chair rather
than sitting in a chair on a trajectory to somewhere you know like rather than sitting in a chair that somehow hates you you know like rather than any you're just sitting in a chair and there's a lovely space there but with that space there is the lacking car of char stick that we have so often used as a motivator and a driver to tackle things to make decisions to even try and convince ourselves that we could get through the next obstacle or challenge we've always relied on that background
thought and that background and that background thought always revolves around the idea of us because there is no carrot and stick except to the idea of you right because if you really break it down to what you need as an organism outside of your idea you food Water Shelter maybe you know clean clean you know but these are things these are actual needs right there's no carrot and stick involved there except well if I don't do that I might die or be cold right so those are
actual physical real things but the rest of what we operate against is like fear of failure fear of rejection fear of being alone fear of judgment all of which revolve around the idea of us so when you no longer believe that idea of you is you then all those carrots all those sticks start disappearing and you end up in a big field with no carrots and sticks and nothing but options and you really have to choose for you and that can seem drying because you're like but but if I
make a choice and I go somewhere and I I'm not thinking about it anything can happen right but everything you've ever been up until that point is going to be with you it's just that you don't know that which is why you keep going into thought trying to think about how much you know and limiting it in the process oh straight up I felt like even just the last couple days like in interactions in even just like getting back to people's text messages like going trying to go
back to like what do I how do I normally respond to this like how do I normally interact with this because but that's all based on habitual sort of responses and it isn't that fresh and new sort of potential thing where it's just being expressed you know it's just you know responding just having sensitivity just taking you know what you get out of the moment and having sensitivity and responding accordingly not putting yourself first because I think that's maybe where it's
been feeling different is like what do I normally say as opposed to just responding in the moment there isn't that like thing that you go through it's just like oh I'm I'm here responding there is infinite potential I could respond in any way shape or form and it's just on me to respond and it's not about anyone else or getting direction from anyone else or even that sense of like you know how you've normally done things but it can feel like you know that like just not putting yourself
first is selflessness like and and make that your driver not in the sense of a reason to feel not to feel good about yourself but just because there's space so it's like why not I don't need anything so why not just like do things and it it almost can feel like you're letting go of some like some sense of value in a way oh yeah you absolutely are you're letting go of the idea that your value is something that can be measured conceptual values what's law not inherent that'd be one way to
describe straight up no that's the thing like if you if you're really letting this go you're recognizing that value was never a thing that it is another illusion like control that we actually thought we could have or lose it's just another illusion it's ridiculous when you think about it what is the value of a person like well when right the value of life that little thing like Express throughout their whole life you know like just like uh immeasurable you know because I mean how
many ripples that come from that that then other people can use that other people can use that other people can use I mean how do you even Define value at that point if it's all potential right even a life squandering your quote unquote value could Inspire others yeah and it does so where's the value like there's no way to measure that because it's all potential you can't measure potential and that's the point we keep trying to make ourselves a definite absolute point of value when in fact we
are potential the only thing we can do is express it more or less but that's what we are as potential so how do you think about potential you can't because it's potential it's unknown anything that's in potential is unknown so trying to think about it is just getting in your own way it's like looking backwards trying to have an idea potential it's like oh where have I reached potential and come up with examples of potential and it's like no the potential and the
unknown and the freedom and uncertainty and all of that they all tie together like you don't get one without the other you don't get control and a sense of Freedom you don't get that that sense of like thinking about yourself and I think I've just realized recently how often it's like it's there you know and it's like in consideration in potential of like you know personal wants and desires and whatnot as opposed to looking past that and if if you're not doing that as
much or you see the futility in it and then you try to it's like there's no point in doing that so much it's like you can just be less selfish like be you know focused on more of what's going on and the experience that you're having and just like giving your all with no Direction necessarily but taking in all the considerations and being like okay you know doing this makes sense now working on this makes sense now doing this project makes sense now and like there are things that are there but
there's no guarantee even that that even the thing you choose is like you know the best thing but it's the thing that you're choosing and you're going to learn from that and you're going to learn from that then you're going to learn from that and that's that's life there's no guarantees like there's no one to give you a guarantee but that's I think a lot of where you know that that desire for validation comes from is like someone else giving you a guarantee instead of
just choosing for yourself you know instead of just making that choice that doesn't come with any validation whatsoever there's no sense of certainty there's no guarantees it's just choosing moment to moment your life and being cool with that for you and like being willing to just have fun yourself you know make the most it yourself so but the practice of that is different than just you know talking about it and this is a perfect example we have a question here and I love this
do you guys know who eug Krishna mty is this is not J do Krishna mty this is another person entirely uh he completely destroys the need for searching and seeking what do you trying to get some mental projection and what I love about this is that eug Krishna murd didn't destroy anything all this person's doing is referring to somebody else who is once again pointing out the correct path contradicting exactly what they're trying to get across to us you guys must
be searching for somebody as I refer to another teacher who's really teaching the right way it's coming from someone else got to be someone else like it's there's a big difference between the application which doesn't require you to get anywhere and the cerebral masturbation that so many of us think is the application and it doesn't matter which philosopher you're talking about it doesn't matter which te you're referring to they're not necessary they're not necessary you know
and if they're not necessary then you don't need to refer to them if you're trying to make a point you could have just asked what are you trying to get some mental projection and actually have it been your point um it just doesn't make sense to refer to someone who is not living with my considerations you know I'm I'm going to refer to someone else who lived with entirely different circumstances in perspectives and lessons and all of that but they know exactly what works for everyone else
because philosophy is a one-sized fits all hope you know once one of us gets it that's it those that one set of golden Concepts is what you can always refer to in fact I'm so sorry the Silver Bullet Concepts it's not gold well that's what he means about ending the searching and seeking found he is found the pathway the the way and it's like there is no way even if someone even if you if you do admire the way that someone else shows up that's the way that they're showing up
with their considerations with their choice to pay attention for them not to inspire you not to because if they are trying to inspire you it's not for you they're definitely not doing that for you you know they're doing that for them to confirm that they have found the right way because with control you know what always pairs nicely with control the fear of losing control they go together like two wolves that hunt in a pack together you know they never hunt alone so if you see one expect to see
the other you know and what's great about the space that doesn't look for control is that there isn't space made for that losing of control and so they almost it's almost simultaneous and if you're feeling in Conflict if you're feeling that fear of losing control take a look at what you're trying to control and why and and just noticing the why because usually the answer boils down to at in one way if there was a thesis I'm afraid and I don't know what to do with
that fear and so I will control what I think is is the source of that fear usually not seeing that the source of that fear is me because I was afraid I gave myself the reason to be afraid because if you put two people usually two people in the same situation they're not going to be afraid of the same things in that situation so that means fear is very customizable and if it's customizable let's take a look at who's customizing it and that's usually you we have another question and I think
this is uh appropriate given the conversation so I'm going to pass it over to Andrew for this one do you think there's a difference between selfishness or being self-interested uh I I find myself putting others first and sometimes lose myself in the process but is that also selfish I think it depends on whether you're H it's I think it's a hard line to draw immediately when you're doing things for or to help someone else I guess it kind of is if you're still deriving or
trying to derive some sense of value from you know putting others first as if that's like the right thing to do instead of being sensitive to the moment that you're having so like the selfishness selflessness Direction there can be some there can be Direction there for sure but I think there does come a point where it can become enabling also like I think that's something to just watch out for when it comes to helping others is how much you're enabling them to continue to feel like they need
something outside of themselves you know because if you're driving some sense of value from feeling like you're giving that to someone then that's not really fair to them like that's hindering their own ability to grow and so there is a uh there is a balance and I think it's it's another one of those momentto moment things but that sense of losing yourself in the process of being selfless it's it's like what exactly are you losing there your sense of what you want to do
for yourself and then I think it comes down to looking at like how much you need and like what those wants are because you don't have to want anything outside like in the moment that you're experiencing like even in your life assuming that there's something beyond the experience that you're having that's G to make you more or make you better you know so that's a good answer you said something there and it made me think of something that's equally important because you said you you want to make
sure you're not deriving value from making them feel better from in encouraging you know their their selfishness right you you equally want to make make sure you don't derive value from the opposite that you don't derive value from teaching them a lesson from being a source of insight for them like you definitely don't want to there's no value to be derived I guess is the point that's really it and if there's no value to be derived then it really just comes down to what makes
sense and that will always come down to the quality of your attention on every moment because that dictates the layers that you see behind that moment but the more you can just let go of the idea of any right thing whether it's encouraging them to just Express who they are right now as divisive as it might be or not or encouraging them to question that divisiveness either way depending on the situation depending on how they're feeling how you're feeling the time of
day the environment the noise level in the back the kind of [ __ ] music that's playing what kind of breakfast they had all of that all of that changes with the conversation is there is no right path there is no right path Sometimes the best thing you can do for somebody when they are beating themselves up is just to go I'm sorry you're having a bad day Sometimes the best thing you can do is just go you're doing this to yourself there's no way to tell there's no way to tell there is no
right answer the only answer that is ever going to be the right one is the one that you make it's just the choices that you make that is the right one how right is not a measure you can't question that but how how deep that's the question I like to ask how much depth does my choice have in this moment as opposed to how right is it and that depth is dependent on how much attention I paying to this moment so this goes back to this question do you think there's a
difference between selfishness or being self-interested I find myself putting others first and sometimes lose myself in the process and I would say [ __ ] I would call that as [ __ ] because nobody ever puts others first you're never putting others first all you're doing is not putting yourself first that's really it you're just not because it's for you like I put others first why well for them [ __ ] you put others first because you don't like feeling like a selfish
Bast so that's still for you yeah that's still for you at the end of the day right but if you forget that that's when you start to lose yourself if you forget that you are deliberately not putting yourself first for your own choice then eventually it starts becoming just people pleasing which is really just another way for me to say me pleasing exactly I'm just pleasing ex I'm using people as a means to that end and and then it comes back to this question like
you know well you know is that is that also selfish like am I doing the right thing it's like you are still thinking about yourself your question kind of answers itself absolutely so is is there a difference between selflessness or and being self-interested or selfishness and being self-interested self-interested is really you're still looking at the idea of yourself unless you're looking at the reality of yourself the reality of yourself is you here now it's not something that has a
value it's not something that can be measured it's not something that that you know can be right or wrong it's not better or worse there's none of that you're just here right now okay that type of self-interest In This Moment is called enthusiasm yeah right it's enthusiasm in what you're doing at this present moment everything else everything else is self-involvement in terms of it being the concept the idea but this is why these words suck this is why the messenger is always a traitor is
because as soon as you mentioned self depending on who you're talking to they're going to go oh the idea of me or oh am me and that's the problem the very same word is interpreted in infinite different ways across the Spectrum according to that person's commitment that that person's level of investment in that idea of themselves and so the conversation doesn't go anywhere you know the conversation doesn't communicate anything your presence does though the level of attention that you
are here and now does because then again it comes down to your inflection your tone the way that you're standing the way that you're making eye content or the way that you're not you know all of that stuff goes into each and every moment of interaction goes into each and every moment of relationship and that has has more sway Than Words ever will right because you're actually putting the attention into here and now where there's potential yeah and we have Concepts that point to that when we say
that you know at least 70% of all communication is non-verbal when you can feel the tension in the room when you can feel someone's anxiety when when someone is not saying a single word and yet you feel the experience that they're having we have Concepts that point to this and yet we just dismiss it like oh that's yeah I can feel the tension but that doesn't really mean what is it buying it means we're not really connected we're not really in sync with each other I'm still
my individual self and and then you settle there you settle on that point because it seems to be convenient but the price feels like it's going up and up and I'm just you know not seeing how worthwhile it is to pay for that price to take things individually which I love that that was um that phrasing came up yesterday you because usually say you you're taking things personally but I love that it was brought up you're taking things individually you in particular the individual concept of you
is how you're filtering all of this moment and all of the potential and all of your attention through the individual of uh perspective of how it's affecting you the concept and it's just it's it's felt more than said and even when people are saying the right words you can feel where that's coming from whether that's just a really good show with with uh curated script that sold really well or whether someone is is feeling what they're saying more than saying what they're
feeling well it we have another question here can we ever really care for someone else or are we only caring based on how we care for ourselves pushing that question further as I find this question fascinating because I would say that if you are asking about a specific person then yeah that's really based on how you can care for yourself like because you wouldn't have that preference if it wasn't also about how you care for yourself and what I mean here is that like a lot of times you'll have
parents for example who instead of thinking what's best for the kid they think what's best for them as a kid right what would they have wanted and so their relationship with their kid really becomes a relationship with their childhood and what they didn't get and how they're going to give that usually to the next kid absolutely and so that is based on on a specific person right like there a relationship with an individual same can be true for friends where you're looking for friends that
validate you you know relationships where you're looking for relationships that that kind of soothe all your insecurities make you feel less unstable you make you feel more wanted you know that kind of thing so those relationships are almost always based on how you care for yourself because if it wasn't about how you care for yourself then it wouldn't be about an individual person it would be about everyone see that's that's kind of the question you know can you really care
for someone else only if you're truly caring for everyone right because we are all that we are all those those human beings we are all those children that you were we are all the same blank slate we are all the same innocent [ __ ] creatures like if you're not acknowledging that across the [ __ ] board then it is still about you it's still about you because we're all of this all of us are going through the exact same [ __ ] human experience and until we relate on that level then
we're just trying to selfit we're really just looking for something that makes me feel better makes me feel valuable makes me feel less alone that's really it and you can't care about everyone until you let go of that and if you don't let go of that then it's just all coping mechanisms like it's coping mechanisms for this abil like an excuse to think about yourself almost like oh I think about myself a lot I have these assumptions about myself I'm going to live my life based on these assumptions
and then build a life around those assumptions and ways to respond to those assumptions like oh I'm not pretty enough gotta do certain things to be prettier focus on that I'm not you know I don't I'm not light enough so I gotta lose weight to do this and it's like that's then becomes our days I don't have you know enough a big enough house I need a bigger house so I'm going to keep working to get that thing and it's like these assumptions about our value that's so individual that perspective of
our value and yet it it that assumption that you have like isn't isn't where you're at and so to have to do something Beyond it's like it can feel like it gives you structure to do something Beyond being where you're at and being informed by the experiences that you're having and paying attention and and being enthusiastic about the experience but if you think there's something that you know you got to do to become more or to maintain of fear of becoming less
like that's going to then be where the focus goes and then that's going to dictate your experience and everything's going to be surrounding that which all has to do with you and you don't see people you know you don't hear people as easily as opposed to you know letting go of that sense of that that wall of control really like that space between you and them that is you your sense of certainty your sense control and just being willing to look past that for a second you know for your a moment for
the moment that you're in it's like that then other options open up like other things open up and then you see a little bit more of the potential opportunities and like what makes sense in the moment but as long as you're staring at yourself or focused on yourself like it's all going to be things about you and things to maintain you and trying yeah it's it's just what's right there it's like staring through a window but staring at the window right instead of
staring past the window fck I love that and it's like you don't have to learn how to see better it's like as soon as something is out of the way you inherently in like inevitably you just see when there's nothing in the way so you don't have to learn how to see better you don't have to reason why you haven't seen it's just I'm trying to see and why is it so hard to see damn okay let's take a look around something might be in the way my wager Maybe you know and just being able even to
consider that that there might be something in the way and that's why it's so hard to see versus I'm not seeing well enough because I'm not good enough to see I really enjoyed the imagery that you just created you're looking at the window instead of looking through the window and that's very much what we're doing with our thoughts about ourselves because we can look through our thoughts to reality where all of our thoughts are informing the depth of all the things
that could be perceived about the moment that we're in but we don't look through them and allow them to inform us on the Fly we stare right at one that scares us right that's pretty much it we're staring at the scary basement window guys and so that's it we're just like oh I I don't I don't like that and we stare right at it instead of through it to what it's informing right but it's scary because we're still holding on to the idea of myself or ourselves like the
idea that somebody doesn't like like me is only scary if I need them to right like that really helps to remember and if I don't need them to then the idea that somebody doesn't like me is something I can learn from I can look at that and go H am I doing something there or is that person just judging for no reason you know and just honestly look at it but if I'm afraid to do that because it tears me down I'll never do that I'll never do that I'll never use these thoughts these
perceptions these possible things you know that's all they are possible perceptions possible you know ways to look at what's happening from different perspectives different points of view different states of mind that's all your brain is ever seeing you know it's just possibilities in terms of what is this moment right what is this moment because the brain's trying to pin it down so it can only look at all of the facets like it would on a diamond it's just looking
at all of them but no individual facet is the diamond right and that's the point the whole thing all the facets inform the beauty of the diamond all of the perspectives of this moment inform the beauty of this moment all of them but we cherry pick according to the ones we like and the ones we don't and the only reason we like or don't them don't like them is because of the idea of ourselves that we are trying to protect because it gives us a sense of value but it's only value
that can only ever be taken away or built up it's not actual value because if it was it would stick you could do one thing and that would be it you'd be valuable forever one switch absolutely according to everyone too assume that oh it must be the case if I have this perception myself it must be the case for everyone else and it's like it's a bunch of different perceptions out there and so the one that you're staring at is just blinding it can be comforting but it's comforting like you know the
blanket that you put over your face without you know being willing to see beyond that or take the blanket off it's like yeah there's all of these things happening when you take that blanket off and then you can actually be informed by all of those things but if you're afraid of letting go or not feeling like you know you have some guarantees or some certainty it's going to feel more comfortable to try and keep staring at your sense of certainty you know your sense of what things mean
about you versus not versus just being willing to you know be informed by things and like if that sense of you know taking the blanket off is frightening it's like the things that you see will be frightening like it's your response so often to that experience of just like uncertainty because then it's like whoa anything anything and that's usually when you know certain fears can pop up but then it's like if you're not afraid then there's just a ton of crazy cool
potentials you know and opportunities to do things that you can choose without any idea of you know where it's going to go or what it's going to mean but you know you can choose them and a lot of them are informed based on you know just the response that you're having or the assumptions that you're making or the you know stories you're telling yourself what priority are you making and that usually is reflected impeccably in the moments that you're in so it's like I'm
not really loving the Ripple that I'm writing it's like okay well what's the priority of this moment is it me the individual that I'm prioritizing is that am I am I staring at the window pane is that the priority or is everything else this priority and usually what we do choose is the structure because the structure implies a guaranteed result and then we choose that structure over and over and we're just hoping for that result and yet it never comes and we
keep investing in the structure instead of try you know trying sensitivity and faith and trusting ourselves to not need the structure right so the example that comes to mind is driving to work I would drive to work on the same path every single day and I would assume that that was my structure that was the structure of my Monday through Friday and it must always be the same and then I got pulled over relied on the structure did not get the expected result right and it was
because I was paying so much to the structure and having no sensitivity to what was happening because I had a guaranteed result because I had a structure that I was relying on and that was the choice and then I got the ticket and I was like okay well you know what were we prioritizing the image of me at work I didn't want to disrupt the image of a good employee and so I was rushing to get to work because I wanted to maintain that image my priority in that moment wasn't reality it wasn't that
moment it was maintaining this image that I thought I had carried it at work there we go just by noticing that we have yet to get another speeding ticket for driving T work you know pretty much you know and that was just one example of how I used a structure to forego sensitivity and how that Ripple I had to ride I didn't like it and then I got to see where that Ripple came from what I was prioritizing it wasn't actually my experience it was just the image and the price to maintain that
image was too damn high so I stopped wanting to pay it oh yeah I I went through the same similar thing structures with uh with food and nutrition stuff for sure like big time like having some calorie goal at the end of the day and like whether I was hungry at the end of the day whether I was full at the end of the day like I was hitting that number it had nothing to do with how I was feeling it had nothing to do with my sensitivity to the moment it was just you know that's what I'm doing
because my priority was how I looked you know was I trying to build muscle cut blah blah blah blah blah all those things that yeah exactly as opposed to being just sensitive to my body and I would you know weigh myself every single day make sure that it was like you know had a response not take it too seriously but still like every day you weren't paying attention to I felt like you told me about like a nerve in like your arm that you weren't paying like a tendon
down my chest into my arm that was like just always bothering me and it was like just blew right through that that doesn't matter yeah good exactly so and that's the priority and like my stomach would feel like garbage at night a lot of times and and then when I stopped doing all that it's like oh wow there's actually you know sensitivity to all these things to your arm was like thank you yeah yeah that was that was a big part too it's like oh there's actually you know
muscles here that are tight as [ __ ] and it was even weird to like be able to straighten my arm you know like I didn't like that feel I liked when it was like you know just another sense of anyway yeah that was the uh food stuff another sense of you know trying to control trying to control things having a guarantee like oh if I get to this point then more people are going to like me no I was going to like myself I just feel less insecure but how I'm living yeah that's right
I'll be more valuable I'll be better that's it you know that's really the big addiction that we have to kick when it comes to just being ourselves is the idea that we have to do something to be something that we have to do more to be more like that's an actual possibility instead of just an inevitability isn't that funny like you are gonna keep doing welcome to life you know and as you do you're gonna pay attention to greater or lesser degree and that is going to
change you to a greater or lesser degree you can't stop that no you can just limit it you can really just put the breaks on it if you want to but you cannot stop it you can just fight it tooth and nail now this is a good question I wanted to address this what would you say thought is the response the labeling the indivi the individualizing of me M and mental imagery and then comparing these labels with one another limiting Infinity with finiteness and you know I
I've thought about this a lot which is kind of a funny response in itself but how did we think before we knew language how did we think before we learned Concepts because it's not that we didn't babies are born they do learn how to move themselves around they do figure out how to communicate for food before they ever learn the word for food you know like they're making noises they are they are using their intelligence and then we teach them Concepts over top
and then their their intelligence uses those Concepts but before the concepts were taught to them how did we think pattern recognition is my first thought and you know because babies recognize their mother's voices through the womb so they're they're memorizing sounds and then they're memorizing faces when they see a new face they like get scrunched up so they're they're like um like f total I forget what it is um but they're memorizing the phase they're memorizing the sounds and they're
looking for patterns before they have Concepts now I like this because then as we start to recognize patterns we start start to learn Concepts you know that's my friend Jamie that's my mom you know things like that so now we've learned Concepts over top of this and our intelligence is still working but now it's working with the concepts but before the concepts was still working the intelligence was still comparing it was still processing patterns yeah it just didn't have the
label for those patterns and then as we get older we start to actually confuse the label for the reality right so if you know that that that's not the case and this is what we've been saying this entire time that space where you're not thinking about yourself that is thought that is thought it's real form before you start superimposing a language onto it but why do we use use Concepts why do we use words to communicate with others right so don't you find it funny that we talk to
ourselves we talk to an idea of ourselves which is why we use words in our head when we're thinking to ourselves internal dialogue is between you and you and some fictional you that's right the whole point so and if it wasn't for that would you be using language this is why when people are like you know well I you know sure maybe prayer is talking to myself but what's wrong with that is like like why do you need to talk to yourself yeah sounds like a big old distraction and I'm not
saying don't talk to yourself but at the end of the day why outside of working through something that ultimately you probably don't need to work through right well I've got to tell myself what I want I don't know right that's exactly it this is my wish list here's my Amanda's wish list Amanda you you now that you know you take care of that but the question is is that what would you do with your day if you weren't narrating your value throughout it if you weren't going through the day
thinking about yourself in terms of what everything you do means about you and how you're perceived and your value and all that how much more insight and how much more awareness of each and every moment would you have how much more momentum you'd be bouncing from choice to choice you wouldn't be dragging but that's the point because none of it means anything about you you just so therefore it's always just about where you are it's always just about the puzzle that presents itself the not that
you are now a part of unraveling and that's all it is because that's what your intelligence does it allows itself to lend some organizing Force but not if you're in there telling it what to organize then it doesn't know how to organize what it's supposed to be doing which is itself life you're saying no no no that's not you you're this little thing over here pay attention to that but it's like but put all this [ __ ] in the background you're like nah has nothing to do with it pay attention to
that that's very much it it's like why do I have all this anxiety why am I so afraid why why do I feel like I don't have value why it's because you're focused on this little idea of you and those are all the repercussions those are all the insights that are like kind of just clamoring at the door begging for you to look at them and go can you stop making us you know can you please stop [ __ ] creating us out of your need to avoid [ __ ] but that's it you know and that's that's all they're
trying to tell us that's all of these these thoughts and these consequences and this ongoing need to get somewhere it's just telling us that we're still obsessed with this idea of being more and that's okay because you don't want to get rid of that idea of being more if it means it's going to make you more right you have to accept these things just notice them notice that you are insecure notice that you want to feel like you're in control notice that you're a little competitive notice that
that you know maybe you interrupt people notice that you don't express yourself as often but that's it just notice it just notice it stop making a story out of it you know it's like Jill noticed that she doesn't talk enough chapter four now Jill has to do this to talk more it's like or Jill 100 words per minute got to read these seven books and go through these courses and learn all these things instead of just noticing it and in noticing it you can reassess your
life isn't that funny it's like well I'm really I'm not really talking a lot today do I care no and like do I maybe I'd want to talk a little bit more because I didn't I did have some stuff in my mind I didn't feel like I could express that's all you need next time you're going to talk a little more because you have reassessed and decided that's valuable but it's that your priority changes over time your priorities change over time and that changes your your decisions it
changes the thoughts that you invest in yeah right but that's how that happens is by going through things and then reassessing yeah right based on what you're going through it's like you know I think control is going to work for me out out out out you know maybe I'll uh I'll reassess this time you know this is this time we we'll make it work this time the control will will pay out and it's it's just uh what are you you're always you're always paying attention to something so it's
like what is it is it going to be your guarantees or just what's happening and not getting not being in conflict with what's happening you know so you're walking down the street you see someone juggling a bunch of stuff you're on your way to doing something they drop something in that moment you can decide pick it up like nothing happens and move about your day not pick it up and keep going like nothing and move about your day but picking it up doesn't mean that
you're a better more considerate person and the same way that not picking up doesn't mean that you're an [ __ ] yeah so it's just like CH something and and and the moment continues oh yeah what I love about specifically I love the fact that let's say that you're in that situation and you've got two different people one makes one choice one makes the other choice more likely the person who's going to stop to pick that up is somebody who has dropped something themselves right right and nobody was
there to help them or somebody was there to help them they went through that experience and like that sucked now they walk by they see that happen empathy yes because they can remember themselves being in that situation because you are bringing everything you've ever went through into every moment yeah your brain is always recontextualizing and that is changing your priority you know it's not something you need to do just keep going and paying attention you know
before you know it what you're really paying attention to is empathy what you're really paying attention to because that's what you're learning to do with yourself right is to empathize with yourself to accept yourself to be so hard on yourself you're not hard so hard on yourself you're it's it makes less sense to be hard on other people not that you won't do it again not that you can justify your intellectualize why you did it and and where you were and how you're so
different now it's just it just makes less sense to judge people when you're judging yourself less you see less value in the judging in and of itself and that has nothing to do with anyone else they can go they can go together a lot of times like all of it you know and so you don't have to do so many things to try and double down on like having that sense of a guarantee you know that sense of control that sense of certainty and this is the point right now where I
got to admit that I kind of spaced a little bit there for a sec and missed a couple things and I'm ad that if it helps I did about 25 minutes ago very very nice yeah because that ability like just the ability to continuously pay attention without like the background sort of like getting ready getting prepared getting ready getting prepared like having something ready it's like you can just trust yourself and hear and just pay like just listen without overlaying some sense of like thing on
top of it you don't have to do that at all and like you can listen and then talk and that spot where it's like you're used to thoughts fluttering around as things are going on as opposed to like not so much like it being just what you're hearing it's not like this two things happening like the thoughts that then you can pull from it's just having the space and then just expressing but there can be that sense of like oh well these are you know my thoughts and like my thoughts are like
I'm just expressing but that's authenticity like that's expression that's where sensitivity is and it can almost feel like you know there isn't as much ability to be sensitive or empathetic even but that's if you know you feel that space and then you run towards thinking about yourself or try to think about yourself you know an attempt to think about yourself like even this morning I was like how do I think about myself again you know like how do I come up with and and it's like
it's not necessary it's always been fluctuating but it's just that sense of it informs your you know personal sense of like well I want to do this now instead of being informed by things instead of being sensitive instead of being empathetic and so you can't do both if you're focused on yourself you're staring at the window it's really really hard to be empathetic to be sympathetic to be sensitive to the experience that you're having and you keep staring at so of course those
things aren't going to be there if you're trying to Define yourself and measure yourself and focus on yourself and then if you can look past it it's like there's a lot of other options there there are other things to do absolutely well I just want to admit I'm really glad there's the two of you there because you guys balance out when I check out and I'm like yeah that's right you paid attention or you paid attention to something he said I'm like that's right I did pay attention I technically
but it's like but that is but that is what's always happening is that attention is feeling like it's being paid and and not and there's space for everything and so it's not taking it seriously when you are paying attention like that's right I'm a quality attention payer I do it all the time my my my my success rate is 90% of the time I am paying 100% of attention you know and in the same way that it means nothing about you when you're are not being like Oh my God I'm a piece of [ __ ]
I wasn't paying attention they'll never want to be friends with me again and we do these extremes and it reminds me of being like a teenager and and it was like everything was life or death oh no I didn't remember Jessica's birthday she'll never talk to me again you know we put so much pressure on our and it's like deep breath take a take a deep breath things are not as drastic as we feel and and there is going to be examples and experiences that are going to be all over the Spectrum and it's
just not judging any point where you just get to dance through the moments and we um during our uh patreon call yesterday a beautiful analogy was created about you know uh being the beach you are the beach in this analogy and and life and potential is a river and people are flowing down that River and sometimes we spend our time in the river trying to convince people to come to the beach but when you are on the beach is where I wanted to take that analogy it's almost like relevant
information washes up onto your Shore like a message in a bottle and so you don't have to look in the ocean you don't have to swim in the river looking for relevant information everything that is going to everything that makes sense usually just washes up to your Shore and then you're like all right I was thinking about building a Hut all of a sudden there's a memory of building a treehouse in childhood that's great you know and it's just it's just there and then it just makes sense and
you're like okay do we do we still feel like building the Hut I think we do we'll give that a world and you just move forward despite not knowing if you're are going to make a great one if anyone's going to visit are you going to share it is it going to be warm enough it's like all these things have nothing to do with the choice in that moment because all those questions that you're usually asking are about the the theirs but there has nothing really to do with here and so it's but it's so
tempting because all those thoughts are like hey pay attention to me I'm panicking over here and you can but you can also just treat those thoughts like the drunk bar the drunk friend at the bar they're there you're not going to leave the bar but you don't have to give them so much listen attention and you could just and you and just by saying like yeah that's there you almost effortlessly pay attention to something else you don't have to decide I'm never going to listen to that friend again I'm
never going to pick up those bottles it's just by deciding to pay attention to something else it automatically takes away attention from what you were spending it on yeah and I think that's the point I'd like to wrap up this episode on because I think it's really tempting to think of it as I was paying attention versus I was isn't paying attention which is an impossibility because you are at the end of the day the experience of attention it's just that your attention
is on something rather than active and general and what I mean is it's the difference between standing in a field where you can see the whole field and you have to pay attention to all of it versus sticking your head in a box if you stick your head in a box you are still paying 100% of your attention to what you can can see and experience it's just the Box yeah whereas if you take the box away now your attention can take in a much larger environment and that's
what I'm saying it's not that you're not paying attention what are you paying attention to and if you find yourself paying attention to the fiction of you are you paying attention to the fact that you're paying attention to the fiction of you are you paying attention to the fact that you stuck your head in a box because if you notice it you'll take your head out and that's when you're attention goes back to being wider and more generalized and actively engaged with
reality as a whole but it's just that just pay attention it's never that you're not paying attention It's just sometimes you're paying attention to a fiction that you're still invested in pay attention the consequences are indicating something about that the frustration the disappointment the ongoing need to get somewhere all of that consequence you're experiencing Here and Now is the result of your attention on the box that's it just notice your head's in a
box it starts to make sense real quick that you should take the box off and that's it that's when your priorities change it's really not complicated it's just a result of keep going keep paying attention cut yourself a little slack here and there and remember the difference between the idea of you and the experience of you but that said this has been a hell of an episode I'm going to pass it over to my two partners friend friends co-hosts and other versions of me to
wrap this episode up but I just wanted to say very quickly to everyone thank you so much for joining us today uh even if you did experience that first 12 minutes of Silent episode that did not get released it was a good one I promise you we did get get back into a lot of that stuff afterwards uh also our Port alurn uh IND Port alburnie Retreat tickets are now available publicly on the website if you would like to come to our Port Al Bernie Retreat between November and 10th go to dualistic
unity.com click in the events navigation bar and you will see the retreat in Port alurn for November you can find all the information there we would love for you to join us yeah looking forward to that there's going to be lots of things going on that week we got uh some whale washing we got Dennis on the guitar we got a chef in process we might also see a few members of fidelium possibly yes but yeah I last thing I'll say in regards to the paying attention is just
I guess things can seem like there certain ways when you are focused on yourself and are focused on some sense of even you know a familiar idea of yourself and then how that fits into you know certain experiences certain situations and like as you go through your life that idea is going to continue to shift but it's like this morphing thing that isn't necessarily helpful if you're having more faith in yourself it's like the lack of faith in yourself creates this need to think
about yourself it's like that's what I'm going to do instead of just having faith in yourself but as you trust yourself more and more it's like it doesn't it really doesn't make any sense to put the Box on like you see the Box as blinding as cutting you off as you know dictating your experience somehow and so yeah it's uh it's not necessary and you can just be informed you know and keep paying attention and keep choosing Things based on sensitivity you know based on empathy
based on looking past yourself and you know get up in the morning and it's like all right here's some things I can do I'm I'm okay doing great myself let's do some do some other cool stuff with life there's no Direction but uh there is certainly the potential to have influence and enjoy absolutely and I just wanted to bring it back to something else that's happening right now which is the people's podcast Awards which is happening right now and one cool thing
that I think is cool is that you could help us out take us a couple minutes and if you enjoy this conversation vote for us in the people's podcast Awards and uh we'll see you around for the next chat thank you for joining us everyone that's right that's podcast awards.com uh you can go takes two or three minutes to register and we are currently in six categories including Health Leisure religion and spirituality best male hosted podcast society and the People's
Choice Awards so if you can vote for us we'd very much appreciate it we have a question here do you have any plans to travel to Germany soon we were actually just in the Netherlands in November but if you would like to know what our upcoming plans will be we're going to release them on patreon in August we highly recommend you join us there because we do group chats five days a week but that's it for today everyone thanks so much for joining us we'll talk to you soon by