hello and welcome to season three episode two of Dualistic Unity i am you will be playing the part of andrew today i'll be playing part of ray just to keep it nice and simple and today we are joined by a very special guest liam otherwise known as yam socks on tick tock yam socks on instagram i believe and yam socks on youtube um liam is interesting to say the least he is enthusiastic he is uh well spoken and he likes to explore all the different avenues
that we tend to talk about here on the podcast he discusses math science spirituality philosophy and of course occasionally he shares some epic music so we are very excited to have liam join us here today uh liam before we get started why don't you tell everybody a little bit about your character uh how you came across this path in general and what you're doing now sure so i play a bit of a strange role on this planet i feel like um you know there's a lot of
a lot of unnecessary divisions in the different fields like math and religion and spirituality and philosophy and you know that's it's been i've been put on a certain path it's like all these fields seem like the same field just looked at from different perspectives and i want to make that very clear to the world that you know there is no distinction between psychology or sociology or philosophy in mathematics etc it's all the same field
and uh and it's my passion to build the bridges between those things yeah yeah i find that one of our not that we have any goals with this podcast necessarily but building those bridges is one of our favorite things to do i would say and it's it's enjoyable when we have someone on who can recognize the that there is no division and yet we can have discussions with the idea that there is division and recognize the illusion but the fun of it
exactly still have conversations about it with that recognition sort of in the background so yeah i'm very excited to uh to be chatting with you today great absolutely um so out of curiosity and this is just from 20 years of slogging through it as it were and being here as you've experienced in your own life i've just been here a little longer do you find that in trying to pursue that mission or build that bridge as it were that the problem is lack of data or the
problem is just lack of clarity oh we certainly have enough data that's for sure there's no i think it would be more accurate to say clarity is the issue but it's not really an issue because you know i don't believe in the in problems everything that happens on this planet i think is naturally arising and if it's naturally arising then it's allowed to happen so any perceived divisions between the world is a part of the play part of the leela part of the maya and so i'm i'm
happy to experience it all but i think it is a lack of clarity a lack of understanding i like the way you put that everything kind of serves its own purpose everything is is the pendulum as it were but that that includes this conversation right like there's no problem in being divisive there's no problem in going down those avenues and causing consequence and all that but a natural result is people like us tend to come along and go did you know this is happening and
the conversation starts to build as a result right like we are we are a part of that process even in trying not to see it as a problem i find that really interesting oh it can get quite meta the whole universe loves to reference itself and so we are the universe referencing its problems and referencing the solutions to the problems in which we are both a part of and are living and so i think that is exciting and it's all a part of the play yeah
that's awesome uh something something i've uh heard you mention a few times is the idea of of with beliefs and belief systems that you've sort of come to the recognition that they're all true in a sense so i'm curious with that like i don't know i kind of want to chat about this and go back and forth maybe a little like when you say all is true is it in the paradoxical sense that they're true in the sense that they are something within everything or do you find a distinction between
the truth and that everything just is but concepts are also the truth beca because they are something within everything or do you find a distinction between the recognition that the truth just is and then sometimes concepts can be a little bit distorted do you see like a distinction there or is it all sort of within the realm of being what is i like that word distortion a lot uh i think that word is used quite frequently in the law of one which is a nice little uh
avenue to explore but i'd say yes to all of that first of all but um we can kind of have some things that people say that there's an element of truth but then we can kind of find another way of saying it which seems a little bit more accurate to the matter and so it does kind of feel sometimes although surely there is an element of truth in all words that have ever been spoken there is a sort of hierarchy to them some are closer to to truth than others when you compare
one to the other but i think it's just a real big game of rock paper scissors like yes rock really is better than scissors like no comparison there or there is a comparison like rock always beats scissors uh and scissors always beats paper and paper always beats rock similarly when you compare two uh like beliefs you may find that one is more structured more fundamental speaks to your heart more but as soon as you take two or more into account it's you'll
start getting feedback loops and the hierarchy of beliefs eventually runs into circles and so as a whole when you ask what's the best rock paper scissors hand it's like well there isn't but any two you pick one will be better than the other similarly any two beliefs you pick one will be more accurate but as a whole what's the most accurate belief there isn't one but every being on this planet has beliefs they have gotten from their own real experience thus
any experience that they have has been an authentic reality to them and so any thoughts on the matter their beliefs constructed from their experience must be true to them so every word ever spoken from anyone's experience ever has been a reality at least to one person that was beautifully said i just wanted to say that quickly because it's absolutely true it depends on where we are what the truth looks like and i don't know if you've ever run across power versus force
by hawkins he kind of goes through that um that at different states of our own self-perception that goes with a certain god view it goes with a certain worldview just as a result of the way we must see the world because of how we see ourselves and so it makes sense that our truth would change accordingly right and and to not consider that unfortunately it causes a lot of problems in conversations as a whole but on the other hand you also have to be willing to accept that some
people don't want to leave where they've become comfortable like they've just attached themselves to that worldview and that i think is is the only not not problem but um sticking point it's where we tend to get stuck right it's just it's like but this is where i feel secure this is what i know and so i think it's even more important to have people like you out there just kind of poking holes in the idea of knowing as a whole right because i think i think that is the only real
issue that that our culture tends to to get stuck on is this idea of knowing that that once we've had a thought once we've experienced something and turned that into a thought or a belief that's it we're done put a bow on it wrap it up right we can just move on now whereas it's the the unpacking of it over and over and over again the action or the being that that state of mind that is unpacking that is the truth or at least that allows us to to express or or embody or recognize the truth
well said yes as soon as we put it into a a mental object you know we identify it with and we start living in our constructed reality because it's not only that you live in a house and this house is your comfort zone you haven't the mental object of the house in your mind and your past memories that tie yourself to it i think that's why so many buddhists vow to be a bit nomadic that uh you cannot stay in one place for so long because you'll get attached to it it's just natural
you know you'll start forming memories and these memories are very moving memories are one of the most moving forces on the planet and these are the constructions that we familiarize with ourselves and get stuck in and if we can live so fully in the present without any notion of the past then there would be no memory to be attached to there is only what you are in right now then it's difficult to believe in much right and i'm so before when you were um speaking about belief and
the idea that all beliefs have the potential to be true to that which or he or she who experiences that but what are your thoughts on the idea of belief itself because that is something that we oftentimes on our podcast and just when i go back and forth are constantly questioning is is the idea of belief itself and the idea that we don't actually need to believe in anything outside of myself here and now to exist and have not just exist but have a fulfilling life and so much of
our society has gotten starts to cling to this idea that oh you have to believe in something or else you know what's the point of all this so what are your thoughts on just not any specific belief but the notion of belief itself and are there any sort of beliefs that you find yourself holding on to or do you tend to question anything you gravitate towards and and begin clinging to you know the more i think about belief the more i realize i have no idea what it means like
it's such a confounding topic i i feel like the concept of belief itself is ultimately a kind of a moot point and that it is it is is empty of any inherent meaning but we use it in conversation a lot we go i believe that so and so and so and this and that but i feel like what we really mean is is like like either i haven't observed a pattern in my experience where this happens and that's that's i can that pretty much sums up all usages of of the word belief in my own experiences what
i really mean when i say i believe something is i have observed a pattern in my own experience and that's fair sometimes that pattern holds and sometimes that pattern doesn't hold but i can assure to you that the one pattern that has never not held for me is the pattern of recognizing my own self my own existence whatever that means what is the self or what it means to exist and in what no idea but there is some essence of self here to experience and that is a pattern that uh
surely has never broke that was well said i really like that i i think for myself that belief tends to be synonymous with assume right i believe i assume they they tend to go hand in hand it might be on on observation but it's still me settling on end point this is what i i think is as opposed to me going maybe kind of could be right which makes conversations very very difficult i i definitely understand that for sure i liked what you were saying earlier uh regarding
a conscious environment um or at least that's the the phrasing that i use because it's never just the house you live in it's your thoughts about the house it's your thoughts about yourself in the house it's everything to do with the environment as a whole because as we've said on our own merch your awareness of the universe is the universe that you're aware of right it's always you regardless of how you want to look at it so i really enjoyed the way that that you put
that and when you were talking about this cycle this pattern of recognizing yourself that's a hell of a cycle like i really that that is what's driven me for years because i went through half my life having very few of those recognitions and admittedly lots of reasons to say i never could because i just had one of those lives that that was dark for a good portion of it but then as i recognized oh there's something underneath all these thoughts about who i am
right that became the cycle almost like a half-life like every time i'd go through that recognition it would get a little a little easier to get to that recognition now it seems it's not even about that recognition anymore because there's nothing else now for the most part what it seems is just not thinking about myself not recognizing myself it's when i'm lost in myself that that recognition has to come around when i'm lost in the idea or
the belief or the assumption of myself that i find i have to go through that cycle to come back to that moment of aha right but as long as i'm not doing that i'm pretty much constantly in a moment of clarity not an aha moment but an unrolling aha moment that's just constant without ever having like that note of surprise right it's just you're just there it reminds me of the uh did you ever play the game where um when you remember it you lose the game
no so this is uh this is quite an old game it's this like it's not it's barely a game but um it's kind of the social thing you do where you where everyone agrees to play this game and the whole point of the game is to forget that you're playing and um and when you remember that you're playing the game you lose the game and so this can go on for decades you know after like 40 years like you know an old friend will
text you i lost the game you're like oh my gosh i forgot we were playing this game and i feel like it's funny that this game has arisen naturally there's it will be a huge amount your viewers who have played this but there's a there's another game that has been going for time immemorial and it's quite the opposite where you win the game by remembering that you are playing it and the goal is to constantly win the game to never be in a state where you
do not realize that you're playing the game until you've had enough with that game then you want to switch over to the other game where you win by forgetting and then there's a whole third game of remembering that you're playing both games simultaneously and this is the cycle of awareness and i think this is beautiful of awareness of something awareness of nothing to the self and from the self no self and all self oneself many selves depending on how
you're feeling and all of them are permitted right they're all happening now yeah that is when you started going on about the the game of you lose the game when you forget that you're playing the game i started to think about how seems like the game we're playing now is is about remembering that we're playing a game and that's that's all it's it's ever been and with that and the remembering that you're just you know more or less god playing the game of forgetting
that it's playing the game when it comes to your identity as liam do you find yourself getting caught in that often do you see yourself beyond the confines of of that limited identity that most people hold on to the idea of themself are you able to recognize yourself in in everything in every moment that you're experiencing i mean i know for myself i go back and forth all the time with that getting lost in identity and then remembering that i'm
never what i think i am but i'm curious about how that how that is for you and and your relationship i guess with the idea of of liam in that way well the mind certainly fluctuates between its identity between the lower self and the higher self but the higher self has never fluctuated in identity there's the the five aspects of shiva which is a beautiful piece of of hinduism which is a text of on the path of that all guyana yogis will follow the yogis on the
search through enlightenment via wisdom one of the proofs that you're eventually shown is the proof that god and and human soul are equivalent and um part of the proof tells you that that god has five aspects that define all of god's doings because god is a being but does some doings and similarly this consciousness can be described in whole with a model of five aspects that describe the doings of consciousness
and when we compare the five aspects of consciousness in the five aspects of god they become equivalent you find no distinction so there is a logical proof here um but that the proof itself is unimportant the aspect reminded me of this aspect of identity and and and remembering the self uh the the five that's particularly the fourth aspect that both god and consciousness has is is the ability of self-revelation and the first three are are creation
preservation and destruction of the present moment this present moment is constantly being created preserved and destroyed but this present moment constantly reveals itself to itself but it also constantly hides itself from itself and that's the fifth and those are quite interesting that not only is there the power for existence to be created preserved or destroyed is the power for you to hide from yourself and remember yourself and every single aspect of this
existence from the atom to the stars is constantly undergoing quick uh fluctuations and frequencies vibrations between the state of revelation and hiding the dance of the cosmos is precisely that that's awesome and and you know at the same time the entire notion of a big bang or or reality as a whole just coming into being and then vanishing exactly it's all the same goddamn cycle like that's really it but it's funny because we can have these conversations and they're useful to us
and to people who are also having these conversations with themselves i mean that is definitely the the bridge that i found to be the most stable is when people are already on this journey as opposed to you trying to talk to them about this journey while they're not on it and they're only thinking about that'd be a nice journey oh you look like you're having fun and like it's like you're speaking a different language using the same words but they have
a completely different meaning and so what i find interesting is that as you've been on your path i don't know how old you are in human earth years it doesn't really matter but as you've been on your path waking up recognizing yourself doing all that you're running across more and more people people who are doing the same thing and as i said i'm old i've been at this for for 20 years when i first started talking to people about this and i've said this before i'm surprised
if they didn't throw fruit at me it wasn't well received this was right after 9 11. this was not a conversation about you know being one that that was welcome at most neighborhood pubs right so over the years what i've found is that it's less about the conversation though those are fun for me i love the deep dives i like discussions like this i love that but talking to your average person who's going about their life trying to pay their bills figure out where they belong
in the world as a puppet made of meat because that's the only way they perceive themselves i i find that it's just just just embodying it just being just relaxing not not having to be anything you know having not meditating in their presence but being the state of meditation i guess in their presence and i'm just wondering in your in your life and in your journey personal experiences going out talking to strangers i don't know if you have a job or anything like that but
how do you find communication because you dive deep and you're good at it and i can tell that you really enjoy it but i also know that there are rare places that you can do that publicly how do you find that changes your relationships with people i probably first find no distinction between those who are on the path and those who are not i think the greatest leveling plane when it comes to all beings being on the same path is a quote i heard from
paramahansa when he was speaking to some sage she said if if the spiritual aspirant is measured by the renunciation then the greatest spiritual uh aspirant is he who has renounced spirituality i.e ordinary people they've renounced the greatest thing right he who has renounced god you know the atheist is the greatest renunciant because they've renounced the the infinite um in place i mean there's still the ability to identify there right like there's still
with atheism especially there's still this idea that i'm an atheist right right so i haven't renounced that i'm still and andrew and i've talked about this before that while that's super true the one common religion amongst all of us is this idea that our identity is truth right if there is a common god it's the ego that's good that's nice i like that certainly it would seem that not many of the average joes would prefer to go on such a deep
dive when it comes to anything but you do not need to go deep to find the truth because the truth is just as shallow as it is deep because there are two types of thinkers in the world those who are who are who are vertical and will always uh strive to go deeper into a conversation or equivalently abstractify and generalize higher then there are the lateral thinkers who prefer never to stray too into the depth too much of a topic but switch from topic to topic
and this is actually one of the models they use in diagnosing certain psychological disorders if you're way too much of a of a vertical thinker then you're usually on the autistic spectrum you know it's like i only want to think about trains and how deep does the train rabbit hole go i want to know all the engine parts and differ every part of the caboose and whatnot um similarly too much of a lateral thinker is someone who who bridges gaps between uh
different fields uh on such a level that they're that there shouldn't be connections and you start connecting fields that that are unnecessary and at that point that's usually on the the schizo effective spectrum when you start connecting everything and everything you know you see you see someone uh look at you strange and suddenly the connection between you that and the cia is made it's like the cia are after me or something like that um and usually you'll find that there is a
bit of both lateral thinking and vertical thinking that is expanded upon in the spiritual path where one makes it so that connections are being made between things but you're also going deeper and so it's kind of like whatever type of thinker you were before you are uh shown the other and you are expanded so that you become a planar thinker someone who can traverse both depth and the shallowness and the the broad and width of it all
and so whenever i see someone who is too much a lateral thinker or too much a vertical thinker i show them the opposite to kind of expand that column or that or increase the depth of their waters and it doesn't even matter the topic it doesn't even matter the topic that's awesome and i'm truly looking forward to just sitting down and having a coffee with you at some point i don't know if our listeners are aware of this actually but liam and i actually exist in
the same geographic location he he lives about an hour an hour's drive away from me on the south end of vancouver island and so um i fully intend to go down there and visit him at some point just to get a little a little bit of this face to face for sure um i just wanted to let andrew weigh in on that quickly but i wanted to say quickly that i appreciate you being here today because in my own journey i started out deep diving once i woke up it was that was it it was all about
how deep can i get out of this because i was in hell all the time so the only way out was through and then i came to vancouver island i lived in in the bush out towards tofino for eight months i lived in a shack my wife we just lived off the land oh yeah and then i came back into the world and i ran across somebody a little while later who said you know there's a such thing as being heavenly heavenly minded but no earthly good and it hit it hit i was like oh i don't like that i
should look at that because i don't like that and it was very much that it was that i wasn't looking at the generalities i wasn't looking at you know how this applies to everyday conversations how this is just just as applicable to a residential painter as it is to a mathematician right it's just as applicable sitting in a park as it is sitting in front of a computer working on a theory right but it's it's in embodying it it's not just about talking about it
right it's in how you relax as a person and i'd say that it was at that point that my progress really started to pick up because progress towards nowhere obviously right but uh it was just because all of a sudden i realized that i was still trying to get somewhere i was there was still effort involved instead instead of just allowing myself to be what i already was i was trying to make it metaphysical i was trying to make it special and admittedly that is where a lot of my reactions to
self-entitled spiritual gurus tend to come from is because as soon as you put yourself up there it's like okay there's a reason you're out there there's a reason that you like that and it was one of the hardest lessons for me to learn so it's it's super inspiring talking to you and talking to andrew just to see that you're both at that point far far earlier than i ever was so we're in good shape the intellect always wants there to be a certain sacred
prophecy a certain special archetypal destiny that has always been this great organization infinitely intricate something so specific only a god could construct something like that um but the problem with something like that is when you have such a specific intellectual concept about truth then it cannot be universal and the whole thing about universal truth is that it's applicable everywhere and all pervasively that's why we call it omnipresent because it is able to be applied in
all scenarios and so something so specific cannot be applied in all scenarios it can only be applied in a very specific scenario um so a lot of the times one of the greatest criticisms that people tell me when i'm speaking about anything like this they'll say you're very vague like exactly exactly because if if i'm being vague and i'm being broad and the most broad is that which is everything the
more broad and vague you are the more universal you are and that's why people have such great uh yearnings towards like horoscopes and astrological birth charts that go well and this could be applied to anyone it's like exactly that's what makes it true that's what makes it truth and we get so caught up in specificality that we don't realize how how general everything really is yeah absolutely everything right and and with that with the specificity and you know in the
realm of the the spiritual gurus and i often times see that as one of the most egotistical sort of titles anyone can can give themselves do you come across many of them on tick tock and do you ever feel like i don't know i feel like you kind of want to rock some boats and and maybe stitch a video and be like hold on now maybe you know maybe there's another side to this and maybe this isn't all the truth because i find myself you know i can get a little bit more maybe
i don't want to compare us but like sometimes i can get pretty emotional with things and and sometimes i get frustrated with people like spiritual snake oil salesmen um but i'm curious if you ever come across that and and you want to i don't know rock some boats maybe and and ask some questions and boil up some some conversation with that or do you tend to stay away from that and if so why to either one definitely anytime i see any sort of spirituality behind a paywall
i i've you know immediate red flag there but i'm never like uh i'm never like frustrated or annoyed i love it i it's because it's great because you know my i try to remind myself anytime i see something that i might disagree with the first thing i tell myself is the word yes like like all things are valid and whatever path they're on even it's this weird cheesy pseudo spiritual materialistic path new age guru i'm like you know what they're living a valid path and i'm just
going to sit back with popcorn because sometimes because they do have a lot of deep uh revelations but they also have a very deep constructed identity um it's that famous alan watts quote when thieves are in a building and the police come the thieves run to the the second floor and when the police go to the second floor the thieves run to the third floor etc it's the moment that the ego is being threatened it identifies with the higher power and that's the
the essence of of many spiritual gurus especially on in the west is is they have genuinely uh noticed and observed that there is some notion of a higher power but then they've identified with that and then they've seen that it's it's the most profitable thing there is um but i do not uh call them out for it because i know that they do have truth in their words and i'll and i'll listen for that and i have the discernment to know which of their words
is spoken from the heart or from the ego and i'm just there for what's from the heart and i'll take those and move on and smile and that is a totally fair response and i think at one point in my life i would have agreed with you for sure um out of curiosity liam do you have kids do i have kids any maybe uh more metaphorical fair enough not physical okay so one of the things that has admittedly changed how i react or how i respond to those who would put themselves above um
is my daughter watching her grow up and watching as she developed a sense that there are people who would take advantage of her she didn't know that for a longest time because it didn't never occur to her that that could be the case because she never felt inclined to do that because she grew up in a life where she didn't have a lot of pain or hardship or anything like that so there was no no defense mechanism that developed as a result but because of that she got blindsided by every
manipulative friend that she ever made right and it's because of that more than anything that i tend to speak up when it comes to spiritual gurus or teachers and it's not because the message is bad often the message is great often the insights are fantastic it's it's that it's coming from someone above it's that it's coming from somebody who would convince you that they are above because of their insight because of what they're sharing that that subconscious
message that once you're wise enough you can be me that's that subtle poison that i find should be addressed more than anything more than the insights themselves because an insight can be super powerful but if it's coming from somebody who has you looking up to them it's immediately cut the efficacy in half right so that's i think why i tend to speak up not not out of righteousness not of anything else it's kind of like when i leave a comment on a
spiritual creator's uh post on tick tock i'm not leaving it for them i'm leaving it for anybody who might happen to run across that post i'm leaving it for anybody who might be tempted to get sucked into this without giving it a second thought and then realize oh this person gave it a second thought maybe i can too right and i think that's the only reason not so much to to cause a beef though admittedly you know the friction that erupts from these conversations
can also be quite educational and fun but i think that as we said in the last episode it's through that that discomfort of criticism and scrutiny that we grow together i ask what is it you fear about these worlds that your daughter is being um manipulated by not so much fear i would say that just awareness that there are so many paths that we have already taken as a result of falling into that mentality there are so many um habits
and addictions that the ego has already been showing for hundreds and thousands of years that it's important to be aware of them so that way we don't have to necessarily repeat them out of ignorance i think that that's the only thing it's not it's not fear so much as sharing the paths that i've been on and saying you know just so you know there's some snakes down that way or just you know that one gets a little rocky you know you don't have to go that way but you can but you
don't have to if you don't want to but i know for a lot of my life like i was raised roman catholic and when i was young i felt god it was in everything and as i got older it became more and more conceptual and more and more people said no i can tell you all about god just come to me and it never dawned on me that perhaps the real source of that would be me the existence right my my ability to discern my ability to question my ability to be aware from
moment to moment not just my blind faith and those who would say trust me right and and so yeah i would say it's not necessarily fear so much as just there are so many other options that we tend to not be aware of simply because we've been caught in habitual loops let us hope this discernment is hereditary then you know if it's funny because i consider myself to be a slow learner to a large degree and i say that with a little bit of tongue-in-cheek i'm being a little bit
funny about that but at the same token i was very smart as a kid as we all were because we were in the moment we were present we were actually there and so we were running at 100 and then we got caught up in all these ideas of ourself and so she is catching on to these conversations not not to the deep dive extent that we often go into but she's starting to wonder about things that i never did at 15 years old never had conversations like this with 15 years at 15 years old because
the environment wasn't there either right and so if there's anything there to be inspired by it's how common this conversation is becoming not just for her but because of people like you because of people like andrew because of the people like the rest of our our community on dualistic unity and you have a discord server yourself you actually have a community growing as well do you not this is true i do and it is quite bizarre that there is a certain a certain pawn game
that's being played and perhaps has been for a long time um in constructing a very peculiar generation which is subtly aware of uh of a lot of psychological phenomena one of the greatest um it's very peculiar it's always time old saying that every generation is smarter than the last but the last is smart or is more wise than than the beginning because you convert intelligence into wisdom and you know it's the question do you want a young
doctor or an old doctor well the young doctor's got all the new medical terminology and stuff but the old doctors got the experience they've converted intelligence into wisdom but something very peculiar is happening people around my age and younger is that there's this strange archetypal parental child role that's being swapped and so many of people my age and younger are becoming the therapists for their parents which is
which is very strange never before has that like ever happened it's almost as if that the uh that the you know the the baby boomers and gen x or somewhere in between there the children they raised they were never good enough parents for and so this strange sort of synesthesia between parent-child relationships this new generation of children is becoming the arc fulfilling the archetypal role of certain parenting that the last two generations
ago couldn't perform for our parents and certain aspects are of course like you know the the child is not going to go out and get a job although some people are with tick tock um but not often or not for many many years could you speak about um meditation and even the concept of anything like like a chakra or a singing bowl or a mantra or deconstructing religion with such level of authenticity with child you could you could not
have had that uh except for maybe rural india not here for not not here ever not ever in the west so this is a peculiar change occurring and it should be observed yeah that is a that's a fascinating observation i haven't really thought of it in that way although i have sort of recognized and experienced it just talking to people in my own life and and family members and you know siblings and parents and and all of that and so bringing it back to raise reasoning for questioning and
rocking boats as we oftentimes say i think it's a little bit related to that point of that sort of idea that the younger generation maybe is smarter with the newer ideas and they're very enthusiastic and rambunctious in a lot of ways and the older generation is a little bit wiser but with wisdom comes being set in your ways in a sense and so i think when we come across spiritual gurus they oftentimes feel like they're a combination of both and they get sort of stuck
in their ways like they figure things out and then all of a sudden they think they have it all figured out and so they're just like i'm up here come follow me this is the way as opposed to being a way so i think just continuing the process of questioning and sometimes that involves criticism to continue those conversations and i don't want to say any of it is wrong but almost just deter us from getting too locked into
a state of mind or a frame of mind and so when i come across someone who is saying like this is the truth this thing is happening just follow me believe this blah blah blah it's just it's not that i am coming at them as a person or an identity but more so the message they are conveying and just saying like oh well you know what if it's not the only way what if there are other aspects of this and so i think it's not even the settling that's ever as important as the
continued process of questioning and so i think that's a lot of the reason why i do it and i like really enjoy the way you put it about you know the younger versus older generation and sort of shifts that we're seeing that are happening right now and in our generations currently that was interesting how we were talking about that i'm just going to throw this back to liam in a second but it's very much like the process of us individually getting over an addiction
we have to keep questioning the behavior we have to keep looking at it ourselves and going where's this coming from what's the outcome what's the payoff why am i so invested in this right and so we're talking about having conversations with other people quote unquote other people but we're really just talking about more process within our awareness more process within our mind and so it's the same process of addiction right we are being accountable for our other thoughts
we are challenging those other thoughts we're looking at them and going uh i think there's something more to this because they're our thoughts right it would be different if we were attacking other people it would be different if you were going after the speaker themselves vilifying them as a person rather than the subject rather than the concepts or or the the snake oil that's being presented as truth right i think that that process of us
discussing things and going through criticism and just feeling uncomfortable about it um is the same process that we go through individually i think that as liam was saying earlier everything's a matter of perspective right like we think that we are evolving as a species but it really is just the same one thing it's the same one person just going through a process there will always be aversion to every aspect of life but we need not be the champion who battles
all that which we perceive as adverse if you choose to opt out of a certain antagonization then someone else will fill your role always it's a little less stressful when we stop i've always said that you can denote three stages of life childhood teenager hood and adulthood and i describe them as follows you are a child for as long as you do not question and you are a teenager for as long as you question but you are an adult when you question why you're questioning
because as a kid you just absorb knowledge you know no questions asked parent knows all the answers to everything you ask them a question uh and it's and you don't even really necessarily question it's just like you're absorbing information denatured you begin to question authority you go okay who who gets the who says this this teacher gets to tell me how it is or even my own parents you start to realize they're they're you know they're human too and they're
not perfect but at some point and actually a lot of people never get to this point in their life um but they never question why they're questioning why is it that i question authority why is it that i question uh who gets why my parent says this or why my teacher said this or why or why why am i so adverse to what the government does you know and it's important to think about and at that point i claim you are an adult when you can question why you're questioning
then you have grown to a level where it's no longer about an aversion to an authority it's about acceptance to whatever place and path that you're put on and if you are put in a position where there is discipline and you are questioning that then it was never a matter of if or if not the the discipliner was authentic it was a matter of whether or not you could submit yourself to the wills of the universe and i think that is an important stepping stone in our journey
and it's a tough point what are your thoughts on zen out of curiosity zen is is beautiful um zen takes an insane amount of discipline of course because you know no other position in life do you just sit down and stare at a wall you know that's that's the whole meditation nothing that grasps the intellect they don't they don't put the uh the carrot on a string in front of it they don't tell you like ah yes meditate on the chakras here are the 112 different pathways
to salvation etc zen goes none of that just sit no enlightenment no such thing just sit there's no point it's for nothing there is no point in sitting but i want you to sit do it for nothing and that's beautiful i felt the same way absolutely i was sharing andrew in season one one of my favorite zen stories as a student sitting in a classroom his instructor's at the front he just stands up takes his fan folds it up smacks the table and walks out
uh brilliant liam i'm i have another question for you with uh i heard you talking a little bit about your parents and the role they've played and and it seems like you've sort of in i don't know how to even put it your awakening or recognition or interest in these topics do you think that they have played a major role if so what do you think that was and and when did you begin coming to these recognitions i heard you tell one story about when you were three years
old and you heard your heart beating on a i think it was on a pillow or something and you recognized that one day it would stop beating and i was like holy [ __ ] this dude's recognizing this at three years old like that's that's pretty wild but it was it was fascinating so i'm curious your relationship with with your parents and i guess even outside of that too with with conversing about this like we're having a conversation right now do you find a lot
of people in your life that you're you come across that you have these conversations with is it with your family are there friends that you're close with that that like to get deep at times or uh have you had a i don't know less do you come across them less often um one of my favorite quotes is that god often plants his sages in places you don't expect and the the like the main message of that in the books that i read wasn't necessarily because
you know because oh well it's weird to find someone here but the but the message of that uh quote was that uh that people who are divinely situated or spiritual aspirants tend to be like pretty evenly spread out across the globe um and so there's this very rarely is there ever like uh like an accumulation a dense point of people so usually for most spiritual aspirants they will not find many fellow spiritual aspirants in such close quarters and
and that's not to say that there's just a minority of them it's just they're so evenly dispersed about the planet so in my day-to-day life i do not have many that i can speak on such matters and you know have them follow but uh i still try it anyway just for the hell of it there's a certain sort of um pseudo-masochism involved where if you are talking about anything say baseball and you just interject with like something you know some strange cohen
about a rotating ball in wind and they're like ha ha and you know it kind of throws a little bit of your friendship at risk it's like this guy this guy's weird man like he's just he's just like i'm planting seeds it's what i'm doing and i love doing that even if uh at risk of of losing that friendship just uh and that's the masochism involved as i i do not mind what they think i am happy to just do little comments here and there but by and large
no i do not get to speak about these things to my parents i do a little bit i kind of force them to sometimes they come out sometimes uh they begin to start a question on it but it does not necessarily feel like at this stage of their life at least they are ready to undertake because they're householders you know they they have to provide for my sister who's who's going to a middle school and so you cannot have nomadic parents following zazen
and have a child going to middle school or at least very difficult to do that here in the west and so because of that they cannot take upon the role of such a such a seeker at this time in my life that's totally fair i have a question for you because as you're talking about your relationship with friends and of course just throwing things in there tossing seeds because because it's fun because you can without necessarily worrying about whether or not that friend's going to be
there tomorrow or whether or not they're going to approve um that's basically the template for my life so so i just wanted to ask you do you think that that willingness to not attach to friends to let them go to just be yourself regardless stems from the fact that you do see yourself as the whole do you think that it's not necessarily even about them so much as about you i've always kind of been my own best friend like um my mother's wish for me and i think grade one was she just all
she didn't care what grades i got how well i did she wanted me to have one friend and a grade two similar story she wanted me to have two friends and grade three she wanted me to have many friends etc um whether or not that happened or not i don't know but i've never really cared because um i've always just been so happy to be by myself to go in the backyard and just play with sticks and stuff like that like i never felt like i was i was missing anything and
for eight years of my life i was an only child before my sister came in those eight years um you know my parents would always say like you've always wanted like a sibling and maybe that's true some aspect of me loves having a sister but but i i was but i was content as well and i've never gone home after a day and gone oh man i really wish i could see a friend right now because i had my greatest friend here my greatest friend has always been here the one that can never leave
me and you know uh you can call it the self but it's also the universe the universe has always been with me i'm walking alone in a park i never feel alone you cannot feel alone when you are when there's nothing to be separate from every leaf is your friend and i've always like you know you could say that like sure haha every leaf is your friend but like no seriously like you know like i i dapped them up i give them little high fives when i'm walking and uh and uh it's it's great
and i've had many friends come and go many best friends come and go and and sometimes there is a bit of heartbreak of course as part of the human experience but i've never been like mortified by it because as i said i've always had like the greatest friend there the universe and every being is simply a part of that great friend you know i'm sure many people have considered this and this is a very rarely articulated point
is that we kind of have archetypal friends and when some one friend leaves that another friend fills their place which is kind of like them and we dream about them and sometimes we get those the specific people that fill that role confused uh and say you have some friend named ryan but but when you were a child you had a friend a lot like ryan but that was i don't know nathan and in your dreams you often get confused between nathan and ryan because they're
kind of the same person uh but just at different parts in your life different places of the world and that's kind of how i felt with with specific people in my life it's like oh uh nathan's no longer my friend that's fine because the nathan ryan archetypal friend will always be fulfilled and someone else will feel that you know so that that's what i have to say that's fantastic i'm going to pass this back to andrew here quickly i just wanted to say that
that view is actually why i i view death the way that i do right like when we lose somebody we're not losing that that person we're losing the expression of that person we're losing that embodiment of that person but the person that was there is the person that's everywhere right like we're not losing them it's just that perception that they were that specific character right so i i just really appreciated how you put that it definitely helps and i know for myself
having a decade of like deep dark depression that was the insight that changed my whole life that yeah i was alone in that i was one and that it was unity right it's not loneliness at that point it changes tone entirely and so i'll pass this back to andrew now beautiful yeah i was going to say the idea of loneliness because i'll get asked about that and you know comments or dms and say like i feel so lonely like how do you get over it and it's like
well there's a lot of depth to that and you can go pretty deep because the idea of loneliness is a very very identity based feeling it's because you feel like you are this that is separate from everything so as you let go of that idea of yourself as something separate as something that isn't god as something that isn't existence itself or you know just the earth wandering around as you are able to let go of that there isn't the feeling of loneliness almost doesn't even apply
anymore and i found that because i i do have different groupings of friends from you know wherever in different parts of my life and but i've never really like i've always been okay being by myself as well and i i really appreciate the time i have to myself and even you know even thinking of something like taking psychedelics or something like mushroom trips uh which i did want to ask you about as well if uh your experience with anything like that but with
those um i've done both i've done them with one friend i've done them with a couple friends i've done them by myself and they're all drastically different none is better or worse than the other but i've always you're able to go a little bit i don't know deeper when you're by yourself and i've found that even just being by myself allows me to i don't know have have different sorts of recognitions and and there's like different
aspects of both types of relationships and but i think as you you know let go of that idea of yourself more and more as being something that's separate loneliness doesn't even really apply because you do see yourself in everything and it's like is is that mind of yours is it inside of your head or is it outside of your head or is it both and and that's that's the paradox but yeah loneliness is a funny one because it is
as much as we feel like we're alone it's like the most one of the most egotistical sort of feelings because we're defining ourself and then very much perceiving that division but going back um to the idea of psychedelics i'm curious do you have any experience with psychedelics and of course so how much and and what types of psychedelics have you delved into there is a deep connection between the concept of loneliness or the lack thereof and the feelings you get on psychedelics like you know
that aspect of of blending into the couch you know you are the couch you are the room or whatever situation you're in your mind sort of melts into it on uh on say shrooms which i've experienced or or less so acid as it's a more of a more of a sensory experience than a headspace um i feel like the sort of state of minds that can be achieved in psychedelics can be appreciated while sober too like and running back to that concept of loneliness we tend to only identify
with the fact that we're alone if we believe that there's something separate and we tend to only think that what is separate is that in which our awareness does not contain life for exa for example i have no sense of feeling in my desk in front of me i have no awareness pervading my desk that's i am not desk but the more you start to think about okay where does the awareness stop where does the body stop where does my sensation stop and this is the kind
of boundaries that are broken on psychedelics for example if you pick any object and hold it you can flick your hand you'll feel it but if you flick the object you're holding you'll also feel it so the lines become a little blurred here i have sensation in hand i can feel the same vibrations in the object that i'm holding but um but still there is a mental distinction but the distinction is broken on psychedelics shattered even eviscerated decimated
sometimes quite violently and some at some point or another we realize that the boundaries of our senses are quite arbitrary and that there really is no stopping point of our senses our awareness container pervades this whole room by mere vision alone by mere auditory experience alone these sounds pervade all of it all vibrations in the universe are connected to each other what you sense i sense through a chain of events all information is shared between
everything all of the time across the entirety of the cosmos and at that point the body is no longer the uh the physical body your body cannot said to be that you are the astral body the network of of pure information being shared within this conscious experience of all the objects within it and perhaps psychedelics is a bit of a shortcut to that certain antioxidants um you want to speed run uh spirituality you take you take a drug but the problem with that is most are simply amplifiers
of awareness they take what's already in it and intensify the experience they add nothing new there's nothing new that your experience is just more of what you're experiencing the problem with that is if you have any shred of subconscious trauma it'll amplify that too and you'll have a bad trip or you'll you might even lead yourself to psychosis and that's one of the biggest dangers is that drugs can amplify residual mental illnesses because they amplify anything and everything
but there is a good side of that too which is that it may break that part of you which uh you you may be forced to detach yourself from that part of you and stop from identifying with it you know you might have two hours the most insane trip about this feeling of of dying and you have no point but to let go of that concept of death itself at that point it becomes useful but if you don't get to that point then we call it psychosis if you're stuck in that in that loop
yeah that's interesting for sure absolutely i think it's interesting that psychedelics tend to um they remove the walls that we've built up over time to try and uh be a governor about our experience as unity right the more we think about ourselves the less we feel right the more you're thinking that your hand is separate the less that you're aware of the thing that you're holding in your hand right and so when we do psychedelics that certainty that idea
of herself just gets kind of torn away it's like here you are exactly as you started and if you rely on all of that in terms of being your buffer for uh stability or a false sense of security and my wife is in her masters of counseling this is something we talk about all the time that a large degree a large portion of the mental health issues in our society are directly related to our commitment to our iss to the idea of ourselves being separate it's exacerbated
by that commitment to that idea of ourself being the truth and so when psychedelics come into play the idea of yourself disappears you find that yourself sitting there going i know i think something normally i don't know what that thing is and from there you either panic or you don't right but the people who have learned to overly rely on that idea of themselves they panic because they've been taught not having an idea of yourself is a bad thing that it is
something to be concerned about and immediately that changes the trip all of a sudden they feel like they've lost something that was important right whereas if you don't reinforce that and they get to that point and they go i'm not thinking about myself and all my problems are gone what just happened right it's a totally different reaction but i've watched people go both ways in that state and it's always based on how much they think the idea of themselves gives them value
it's so true and this is what the buddha noticed that you can causally depend every single uh state of suffering from one source and that's ignorance of your true identity and once that is known all other things come into place and it's such a good model you can pick any any any suffering you could you will find that okay here it goes like this if the suffering is about anger then that anger always stems from fear and that's that's pretty easy it's like okay
um uh you're angry you're angry at uh you're the team that's uh against your favorite um basketball team why are you angry well you you fear that your favorite team is going to lose that's why you're angry at them so that all anger always stems from fear but fear always stems from attachments you fear that your team is going to lose because you're attached to them winning and furthermore that attachment is always caused by ignorance of true identity and that your identity is not
dependent on any of your attachments your identity does not depend on what what your favorite team does and once you understand that that that people aren't going to think of you differently because your favorite team lost or that you are not going to think of yourself any differently then there is no longer an attachment and thus there is no longer a fear unless there is no anger and i love that model because it works every time as far as my pattern of experience goes
yeah i've found that you know along the lines of the idea of of knowing yourself or figuring out what you want in life or what your meaning or your the purpose why you're here and all those things are like aren't i feel like our entire society is sort of caught up in that that loop in a lot of ways in trying to figure out what the point of all this is and you know the act of trying to figure it out could be an argument that that is the point
if if you're doing it now right so even with you know trying to figure out consciousness or understand consciousness um i've i've heard you say in the past that looking for consciousness or trying to figure out consciousness is like looking for a magnifying glass through a magnifying glass and it's it's so funny to me that so many people run around almost like chickens with their heads cut off trying to figure out what the point of all this
is while they're it like right god has confused itself into thinking that it's not god like it's it's fascinating to see but how pervasive it's become in our society that mentality like that's you know knowing yourself is the most important thing so have you ever gotten caught up in that and was there a point where you recognized oh i i am myself and if i'm trying to figure out or know myself that implies that you know there's the knower the one that's trying to know and the
one that's being known so maybe you know there isn't two of me but there's only one was there a point when you recognize that or was it it's more of a just process do you remember like a have you had any stark experiences where you're like holy [ __ ] like it makes more sense now oh that's a good question of course life is riddled with subtle revelations that build up over time or rather the revelations themselves or the deconstruction of what you have known the
whole time and the more i think about it the more it feels like i've kind of always known i've only believed that there was a certain time where it changed but that too is a concept and i don't know if i can pinpoint a time when something like that like really occurred to me except for now i can tell you that now it's really occurring to me um but yeah there's uh um alan watts would always say you don't know what you want because you're it
uh you don't know you don't know what you're missing because there's nothing to miss you know or eckhart tolle would say um how funny is it that we can come to a place in our life where we say i can't live with myself anymore and who is this i and who is this myself that it cannot live with is there one of me or two of me why is one talking to the other so we are constantly looking for the objective awareness that is awareness the object of consciousness that is consciousness
we're trying to find something that expresses it perfectly adequately 100 but you're looking at it precisely the totality of your experience right now is it that's it but it's nothing in particular because it changes from one moment to another and for some reason we have this idea that for something to the true identity of something is not changing it shouldn't change because if it changes well then its identity clearly isn't permanent and we're looking for the permanent sense of self
but the buddhists will tell you there is none what have you ever seen that's permanent nothing right and this is the struggle we're constantly looking for some a permanent sense of self when it is that which sees all but cannot be seen that which hears all but cannot be heard fire cannot burn it water cannot wet it it is not this abode of flesh and bones which sleeps decays and dies it is the immortal consciousness the lord of the earthly skies that was most sad i just want
to appreciate how that was worded for sure um i do have a question for you in fact uh we were talking about abandoning the idea of separation or rather recognizing that however convincing it might be it's just an idea it's just a perception that's really all it is have you ever had experience with anything in regards to say energy healing or reiki or martial arts where you would experience that
the physicality of your consciousness expanding outside of your body and andrew and i were talking in early in season one about if you look at a rock well that rock's not aware it's like well you're looking at the rock so the rock's aware yeah right because there's no separation it's a part of your awareness the some some essence of it is comprised of your awareness i'm part of it too that's right exactly can't leave me out of the equation i am awareness
and we tend to miss that we tend to look at who am i rather than what am i which is existence i'm existence it starts and ends with me as far as i'm concerned right like that's the whole point and that's the most honest thing that we can say and oddly enough somebody who defines himself would go that's egotistical right you said you're everything you said you're god it's like right and this is where they become self-centered yeah exactly
exactly we have different ideas yeah isn't the self-centered to your experience right but again it's you're speaking two different languages so back to my question have you ever had experience with reiki or or with extending your awareness of your own energy outside of the bounds that you would normally associate with your body with reiki not directly however i have noticed many things for example um i really like giving my friends like massages
whenever i can or tactile experiences like uh like i'll be like hey can i just like like draw on your back um it doesn't really matter what i draw just like you know and then i get carried away and then you know that's kind of why i have this uh this wartenburg wheel you know it's just very very interesting to you know isolate and focus your awareness upon certain parts of the body and i love exploring this and i have many friends who explore this tooth and it's so fascinating um
reiki and tai chi are quite similar with you know the the body movements and whatnot and a huge part of that is to calm the mind because slow rhythmic circles and swirls and geodesic geodesic spirals of your hands truthfully there's nothing going on in the hands what's going on is the your attention and your awareness is using the hand as a guidepost and that is creating the swirls of patterns in your own consciousness
and that is what calms you because it's your consciousness which is which is moving with the tai chi with the reiki and uh even more phys and and that's through visual but any of the senses uh you can create the same phenomena you close your eyes and just feel someone draw circles around your back and that will have the same effect because it does not matter the object of the experience it's the fact that you as the subject are following
this movement and this motion and that in itself is where the expansion comes from i believe absolutely and i'm going to let andrew weigh in on this quickly but as somebody who's done qigong and tai chi and wing chun and a great deal of martial arts and reiki and all that you nailed it right because the entire practice is getting yourself out of the way like in tai chi you'll find that the movements are the most natural movements when you're relaxed right it's just a flow that you
find yourself getting into outside of learning the initial structure which is you just telling your mind like stop trying to do what you're what you're used to doing right as you relax into it as you get deeper into your breath as you get farther and farther away out of your identity you find that these these motions are actually super natural like they're very very fluid and almost like the body wants to move that way same with the breathing yeah absolutely i found that
with the in my own experience because i don't have a ton of experience with reiki or martial arts or anything like that but it's been interesting and as i've sort of gone about removing more labels and ideas and sort of gone through the process of unlearning all the things that i thought to be the truth of what i am and what other people are it's been funny in conversations when i talk to people about our ideas of ourself how much of a concept that it is
and i was actually talking to my mom yesterday about the idea of death and she was getting she can be very emotional i get a lot of that from from her and and she was talking about the idea of death and how she's very afraid of it and all these things and i said well what is really dying she's like the essence of me this body and i was explaining to her how you know our cells are sort of like rejuvenating all the time so we really aren't our bodies so much and it's more so
the idea and it's only because you define yourself as what you think you are and it's fascinating how much of those fears if not all of our fears are rooted in how we define ourselves with which isn't actually a physical thing at all it's very much a conceptual idea that we get caught up in and so as you're able to let go of the idea of yourself there isn't as much stress or tension or fixation on those fears because it almost doesn't even rationally make
any sense anymore unless you're defining yourself as something that's limited and and with the energy side of it even like i think it's been proven that our sort of like energy expands out beyond the limitations of our skin as well and it's it's just fascinating how much of our limitations of what we experience are based on the concept that we identify with and and all of our fears and worries almost go along with that so as we're able to practice sort of these
energy related practices it's like it's like when you can feel sort of outside of the body or recognize that you are not confined to this body it can strip away a lot of the conceptual fear and worry as well and and liam in in your experience have you found that to be the case like when it comes to something like fear and worry as you have you know recognized more and more or come closer to the recognition of
of the truth whatever that may be have you found that there has been less fear and worry in your day-to-day life what's interesting is when we tell ourselves we're not the mind or the body we're lying when we tell ourselves i'm not the mind it's the mind telling itself i'm not the mind but for the one who's listening and the mind has this conception that it has this idea of some sense of self and it's true that's true the mind does have a sense of self the mind is the mind
so when we have a discussion with people who are not uh acutely aware of an identity beyond mind and they say no i think i am the mind it's like damn straight you are because the one who just said that and reacted was the mind so when listening to this know that the one who's being spoken to is not the mind but the one beyond the mind and what's really interesting then is that this whole concept of self-realization was just
the mind letting go of its own identity so that the listener or the watcher that pervades it can have a more direct experience with the world and so it's this ultimate sense of of of liberation because ultimately it's the mind liberating itself from itself because when you tell yourself you're not the mind the mind is lying to itself but it's lying to itself so that the listener cannot identify because the listener the watcher this awareness
blindly loves everything in its experience everything it gives power creation preservation destruction to everything within its experience including the mind the mind tells itself i'm a goat the awareness goes yes i am i am a goat so at some point even though the mind cannot grasp it the mind realizes there's an awareness here and it goes oh my gosh i'm so sorry this whole time i've been talking to myself without realizing that there was an awareness here
listening to me and listening so fully that it identifies with what i am saying and i've been calling myself the mind this whole time because i am the mind but i'm so sorry i've said that so many times that you start to believe that you're the mind but you're so much more you're what gives the mind it uh it's power it's and what not and so this is in my opinion the entirety the story of the entire uh abrahamic faith the story of god and uh the devil the story of consciousness and the ego
the story of that sense of i am and that sense of self that sense of uh of constructed identity and mind and that's why uh lucifer is the fallen angel it's the one that speaks on behalf of god the one that does the doings it's the mind the mind is the one who speaks the mind is the one who does all the thinking god never thinks consciousness that awareness never thinks but it imprisons god eventually becomes god's worst enemy and imprisons him uh
because lucifer or the mind does not understand it cannot understand but it was and always has been god's best friend and we'll always remember that and thus at the end the mind is the one that frees that awareness by remembering the placement of the mind and the awareness or the heart whatever you want to call it nice beautifully said i i enjoyed listening to you speak a lot which is why i listen to your
tic talk account so frequently and i just want to mention to everybody who's listening to this right now that if you haven't as yet gone and subscribed to liam's account on tick tock and instagram and youtube definitely go and do that i want you to return quickly to what you were saying about listening because when i was taking kung fu that was something that my sifu would say to me quite frequently listen i wasn't talking about my ears it was just talking about the removal
of a direction of an intention just being there with sensitivity and so i found that to be incredibly useful but i think i think you've got a point there that it while god is what is the devil is kind of how god experiences that right it's how you get to be under the belief that we're separate right we've often said that that's why the devil said i'd rather reign in hell than serve in heaven right it's like i'd rather think i'm in control and cause my own misery right than just let go
and be part of the flow which i always am anyway it's just my perception of it right so on that note we're gonna have to come up to the end of this episode here very shortly i just want to thank you and everybody who's joined us for this episode for joining us today uh liam i know that you mentioned that there aren't a lot of people that you talk to about this deep dive stuff outside of your social media and of course your endeavors online i would just like to take
this opportunity right now to welcome you to the dualistic unity community um we've had a number of people say when are you going to have them online and so we're glad that you were finally able to join us i'm going to try and convince you to possibly uh come to some of our free group zoom chats over the next several months and perhaps i'm going to try and convince you to come and join us in november for our dualistic unity retreat because i know you're on the island with me
so it'd be pretty easy for you to do but we'll talk about that in the future um before i go any further here i just want to uh give you an opportunity to tell everybody where they can reach you what projects you're currently working on and if there's anything else you'd like to share um above all i would like people to go and go to a forest or a river or a beach and just you know all of this absorption of of so-called knowledge theory really must be paired with
practice and that practice is so important because then you actualize it um and i think most people who are podcast listeners uh you need not look for for me just go and go and explore a forest go and just breathe that's your only responsibility but if you must brush up on theory then you can find me on tick tock at yam socks y-a-m-s-o-x and uh and my website is also yamsocks.ca excellently said and of course you're absolutely right they should go out to the forest or down
by the beach or just take a walk but of course regardless of what you're doing you are still participating in nature even if you're listening to liam because as we've discussed he is a tree and he is the ocean and so regardless you're doing yourself a solid just by being i'm also steve buscemi yeah see and who doesn't want to be steve buscemi let's be honest so uh andrew is there anything you'd like to wrap up here with the episode just a big thank you to liam really really
enjoyed this conversation honestly i love i love your content and i'm very grateful to have had you on here and your ability to you know converse with us and and just take our questions and respond with very eloquent and articulate pieces that could probably be put into poems or something but i'm honored to be here lovely so lovely podcast thank you guys thank you we appreciate that and yeah thank you very much and i look forward to uh keeping in touch in the future
and on that note i'm just going to share quickly the uh the insight that i wrote down as we were discussing that the only way to accurately express the vastness of reality is reality itself and so i wanted to thank both of you for being here and expressing what reality is and the listener for listening being reality and helping us come together i very much appreciate it and of course we will see you next week for episode three and if you can join us on the
group chats this wednesday and next wednesday we'd love to see you there thanks so much bye everyone you