Decoding The Trillionaire Mind (feat. Sam Ovens)

In this episode, we're going to talk about alternative ways to work to achieve twice as much while working half the time, why taking time off boosts your productivity, and how to get your brain to solve problems for you

while you're relaxing. Also, we're joined by Sam Ovens, who's Homozi's business partner. He's the founder of the next big community platform, School.com, that's valued at over $1 billion. And we're diving into why fun is the biggest productivity hack, how to develop your... intuition to make the right decisions how to get clear on your vision and our little side quest for this episode is to make him laugh at inappropriate stuff like the instagram page kids getting hurt or some little

fun Dan Pena clips. We'll see. So put on your seatbelts. Let's get into it. I actually thought about some fascinating alternative ways of working.

Because what if you could work half the time and actually get twice as much done? Wouldn't that be the biggest L if you worked more and you got less done? Like think about the travels and adventures that you miss out on, the vacations, the trips, the memories, all of that, and you actually achieved less. I can't think of a bigger L. And so this viewer...

sent this to me, which is this blog that you can only find with the Wayback Machine. The Wayback Machine, if you don't know, if you're an idiot. like emod i didn't know um it's it's a tool that you can use to go back in time and find screenshots well not screenshots but like captures of uh websites you could even go i think probably facebook youtube and see what they look like in 2009 before covid was invented so did it just go and like screenshot every single

No, I think common websites. I don't know how many, but for example, here you can see there's like all these shots from all these different times. So in May and September.

Anyways, the website is called sabbatical.blog. And the idea of this whole blog is this guy who was writing about it, he started taking seven... week sabbaticals so originally a sabbatical is a period of paid leave granted to a university teacher or other worker for a study or travel traditionally one year for every seven years worked so you work for seven years and then you can go on a sabbatical that you're paid

for a year to study some other field, to take some time off. You still get paid for that whole year? Yeah. Okay. Paid leave. And what this guy did was like, I need something like that because I was burned out and all that. But he was like, I don't have... I can't wait seven years for some time off. So what if I do a little version of it? And so what he does is I work six weeks and take off every seventh week. So basically every two months you take off a whole week.

And that means you take off, yeah, like seven and a half weeks per year and in very frequent intervals. He also pays his employees to take off every seventh week. We don't have unlimited time off. We have mandatory time off. So the key thing that he talks about is you don't schedule it around when the holidays happen anyways.

You don't go, you know what, I think in December when, you know, that's when I put one of my sabbaticals. No, no, no, no. You set it in and you schedule it and then you commit to it. And if you think about it, that's actually way more challenging. and saying i'm gonna i'm gonna work way more like how if i told you take a week off while you are like in the middle of building your thing like isn't that way more challenging

Yeah, because I don't know. I'm a firm believer in momentum. And I think sometimes when you're just in that zone and you have momentum, whatever you do, do not cut off that momentum. So I think.

I mean, and I don't know how he's done it, but like, I think that could be also detrimental to the company. Cause imagine you have a big project coming up and you lose your top player because it's that seventh week. He has, I'm like, all right, let's scrap that. Shut up, sit down and get the shit done. Well, I see that.

But I like this idea of working in sprints, and you've talked about this before as well, and I think this is that. You have these six-week sprints, and then you take the seventh week off. It's just like you have this milestone to look forward to where you're just like, okay, got to get this thing done before taking the seventh week off. Do you have your weekends off too? In the weeks or not? I think in his case, yeah.

Okay, just making sure. I think in his case, yeah. Because imagine it was like six weeks straight without weekends. Nah, nah. That's insane. Doesn't make sense at that point. But this makes me wonder, what other ways are there to work? Right? And here's the thing, you might be thinking, how would this make me more productive?

because like if i work more i should get more done right but there's so much research that suggests that working too much actually kills your productivity one of them being parkinson's law i'm sure you've heard of it right however much time you allocate to a task that's how long it takes

And so there's so many times where you have this big task in front of you and you're like, oh, this is going to take me a week. This is going to take me three hours. And then a really powerful question you can ask yourself is, how could I do this in 20 minutes? And it forces a completely different way of thinking, which is, okay, I actually need to get help from this person. And they'll tell me what to do. They're already an expert. I'm going to pay them. And...

Or I'm not going to pay them. I'm just going to ask them. I just haven't even thought about it before because they're my friend. I can just ask them. Or sometimes it makes you go, you know what? I have these five things I need to do. If I only had 20 minutes, I would only pick this one thing because this other thing doesn't really matter.

Doing this one thing would also take care of the other three. And I actually just need to do this one thing, right? That's Parkinson's law. The other thing is like this linearity bias that we inherently have, right? So we think one unit. In is one unit out. And we all logically know that, but it's not how we're actually operating. It's one thing knowing it, another is actually living by it, right? And so... Actually, some tasks you put one hour in, it's 100 units of output, right?

I think that is one of the most powerful things I think we've said on the podcast that I think a lot of people don't really understand because their brain is programmed to believe things in a specific way. Like, for instance, like... I like how you say there. No, people in general. Yeah, yeah. Well, most people. Us. Take some responsibility is what I'm saying. Jesus Christ. All right. Yes, us.

Put in perspective. It's kind of like... Especially you, Imad. Some people... Tell them how you're messing up. I'm sorry, guys. Sorry for hurting your feelings. I'm looking at the camera. Are you good? Do you guys feel better? Message me in the comments and let me know. I'm sorry for offending you. We good? Can I get back into it? Yeah. It's this concept where people think I need to have seven businesses fail so I can have my eight successful one.

And in doing so, you actually shoot yourself in the foot because one of those businesses could have been great. But in your head, you're like, no, I need to fail. I need to fail. I need to fail. When in reality, maybe your first business can be the thing that blows up. It's kind of like this thing that I saw in actors. where uh back in the old days when i did acting i would see people say oh dude i need to be a featured extra and then i need to be

a regular character in a small film. It has to be this way. And it has to be this. And then finally I get a series regular role. And then once I get a series regular role, then I'll become a regular movie principal character. Then I'll be a blockbuster star. And then Steven Spielberg will like bring me on and like...

i'll finally be a famous actor when in reality some people their first movie was with steven spielberg and they've never shot anything before because they just had the right look they had the right confidence and they just did it right but it's all the difference between them was their belief their belief that they had nothing like limiting them and their head everything was possible yeah and that created you know yeah we make these arbitrary rules in our minds where it has to be this way

Same thing with having a unit of input and then a unit of output, right? We think it has to be this many hours. Also, how many times have you made a plan for the day? Like, hey, I need to get this done today and this and this.

You go and do it. It doesn't take as long as you thought it would. You crushed it, and it's 2 p.m. And you're like, I can't stop working now. I've got to do something. And then you grab the next thing on your mind, and... yes you're doing more but that thing that you're then working on is probably not this big like leverage needle mover right and then you just fill that time with whatever like oh i've got something like oh let me do laundry

But like, okay, but you could have just also just hired someone to do the laundry for you or just not do the laundry. Why do we need to do laundry anyways? You worked eight hours a day. Yeah. But did you really work? Because the reality is out of eight hours a day, you're only working maybe one hour focus. But if you actually took those eight hours and you focus on all eight hours, do you understand how much you would get done?

Yeah, and even that, I think it's not realistic because if you really do deep work, you can really only do like four hours. And this is the next big thing where working more actually makes you less productive is the perceived... Your perceived importance radar goes out of balance, whatever you want to call it, right? So when you're busy, and let's say you fill the rest of the day with more things to do.

everything feels important and urgent. Like, have you ever had that where your calendar is full? You have all these things to do. There's 10 projects that you think, oh, we got to do, we got to improve this. We're going to work on that. We need to hire this new person.

if i asked you what's the number one thing it's just like oh like this but also this but also that it's like everything is important when you're taking time off it's like it's like this snow globe where you shake it and all these like little snow bits float around you kind of like taking time off it's just like

not moving the thing and then the the snow settles and then you can see clearly you're like actually if all we did was focus on this and we just knocked it out of the park the other things don't matter or they just take care of themselves and that thing that i was worried about

It's actually not big of a deal. And that other thing, I can actually do that in 10 minutes. I'm going to do it right now. Just get out of the way. It's just like the clarity, clarity, you know, just like it, it, it just increases massively. And so Rian Doris, a buddy of mine that I recently caught up with, he might be coming up on the podcast next week, otherwise some other time. He is basically the Andrew Huberman of productivity and flow.

And one of the things that he talks about is work compression, is where you force yourself to limit the amount that you work per day. So let's say, for example, you work from 9 to 8 p.m. usually, 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. um you say what if i only work from 9 a.m to 4 p.m so after 4 p.m the moment the clock hits 4 p.m i'm not allowed to do like even send an email even check my calendar like just like no i can't

Or if you want to take it even further, from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. And you're just forced to be so crystal clear and picky about what you work on. And anything you work on, you're like... You only pick the most important challenging tasks that then you also get into a flow state with because they're usually the challenging tasks, right? And I think that's when you get so much more done.

And you work less. And then this is another idea that I recently heard about. Have you heard of Paul Graham? Yeah, Paul Graham. Marcus told you about him? No, I've heard of him.

for a while but he has these really great essays people always talk about the paul graham essays one of them is the um the top idea in your mind and it's basically that you know everyone's who's worked in different problems is probably familiar with the phenomenon of working hard to figure something out.

failing and then suddenly seeing the answer a bit later while doing something else. For example, when you take a shower, when you're, you know, in a commute and you're just like, you're just thinking, you're just chewing, your subconscious mind is chewing on the problem that you've been thinking about.

And he says, I think most people have one top idea in their mind at any given time. That's the idea their thoughts will drift towards when they're allowed to drift freely. And this idea will thus tend to get all the benefits of that type of thinking while others are starved of it. Which means it's a disaster to let the wrong idea become the top one in your mind. Which is why it's so bad to have like five different things that you work on.

I agree. Because you can only go so deep with your idle time. Let's say I'm in a court case right now. And then I also have some issues with my taxes. And then I have this one business and a second business. And I'm going through a divorce. Like anytime I'm taking a shower, I'm going for a walk. I'm going to think about one of these things, but only at the surface. Whereas if I'm focused on just one thing that I'm going so deep in.

I keep chewing on that problem. Okay, how do I make this podcast better? How do we make the show better? How do we make this, you know, how do we make this better? And there's a level of ideas that are so deep beneath the surface where you have to keep digging that you would never reach. And I think to go back to the taking time off, taking time off allows you to have more of these types of thinking where your subconscious makes calculations and computes things.

that are necessary to solve the biggest problems that you have. And when you're always busy, you tend to only tackle the things that you know how to do rather than the big scary things that... are really challenging problems that will take a while, you know, and that you don't know the answers to. But it's so easy to go, you know what, I know we should hire this key person that's so difficult to find and I don't know how I'll find them.

but i know how to send an email to my newsletter and also post another piece of content and also do this and that and let me just do that you know yeah no i agree and there was a study done that said that you can only work extremely hard and focused for three hours and then after you have to take a break and uh so when i actually wrote my second book um for dating i literally wrote it in six days

And the way I broke it down is I would work for three hours and then I'd watch a Netflix episode. And I can only watch that Netflix episode once I've done three hours of work beforehand. That's how I would reward myself. Or I would go for a walk. So for me, I trained my brain as like, you can only get these rewards or eat if...

You did this. And if I didn't do it, I wouldn't be able to eat. You can only breathe air if you... Exactly. If you write another sentence. One sentence is one sip of air. Sure. And you just...

but it worked it worked really well because it's like you started training you retrained your brain to be like all right i need to be disciplined this is my deadline this would have to get done um so it's kind of going to what he was saying what you were saying previously where it's like by one but the reality is it's like i can't even do anything unless

this was done so i'd have three chunks every day so i'd write for nine hours and then i yeah that's insane that's a lot yeah but the brakes made it good taking any stipulants there were you taking any no you found in the forest i couldn't afford to send us at the time Oh. Dude, I was like, that was like when I was building. You were on the poverty. Dude, I was living, my apartment rent was $500. I was living in the hood and I was just writing.

literally writing right that was the beginning of my like when i was like starting to like make somewhat decent money i would have had i think a thousand twelve hundred dollars in my bank account great that was your rocky montage yeah so i just had no choice but to make it work

Sick. That's the best place to be in. Yeah, dude. That's why you can focus. And again, like work compression is kind of that, right? It's just like, nope, you have to make it in this time. Yep. What are you going to do? Oh, well, I'm going to work more. I don't know. You have to do that. Yeah.

There's this other essay that kind of ties into this idea, the maker's schedule and the manager's schedule. Basically, the idea is there's two different types of... schedules or workers where one is a manager and they have like one hour intervals they have all these meetings and they're just like meeting with people and connecting and then there's the makers and if you if you put like one meeting in their schedule for the day

it ruins their productivity, sometimes for the whole day, because they're on a maker schedule. They just need big chunks of time where they can be uninterrupted and just focused. Yeah, I think this idea kind of ties into that too, right? Where you can be really intentional about the six hour, six weeks, take the seventh week off, right? And that makes me wonder like...

Where else am I structuring my time in a way where I'm just like, oh, this is how it's supposed to be. Of course, I need to have a meeting like every once in a while. And like, you know, of course, I need to produce this podcast weekly because it comes out weekly. right but like have you heard of dan sullivan he's like an entrepreneur coach he talks about three different types of days that the guy who wrote uh start with who yeah who not how who not how yeah

The Gain and the Gap, and then things like that, like really interesting books and new ways of thinking about productivity, creating things, and entrepreneurship. And he talks about three types of days, focus days, buffer days, free days. Focus days is where you basically have a maker day. You have a maker schedule. Nothing's on your calendar and you just work on writing a book, recording the podcast or scripting it or preparing the topics, right? Like the deep work, the high leverage tasks.

um then you have buffer days those are specific days where you have meetings you do maintenance admin and then there's three days zero work on three days not even thinking about work not even having a conversation not even an email and um This guy, he takes 155 free days per year. And he gets more done than before he did this routine. 150 days, that's almost half the year he takes off.

And yeah, like an example would be Monday, you have a buffer day, right? That's when you have your meetings. That's when you meet with clients, whatever your business is, right? Or that's when you meet with your team, whatever career you're in. Tuesday is focus. Then Wednesday is buffer again. Thursday is focus. And then Friday to Sunday, just take the time off. But yeah, it is challenging. And here's the tricky thing. I can...

I logically understand. Yes, I think this would make things better. I'm currently in a phase where I'm like, no, I need to grind because we're at the beginning of the show. Got to make this thing grow. Like it does take a level of hustle because it's not like we have tons of money coming in and I can just hire people to just like, oh, high leverage. You know, I kind of need to get into the weeds. I'm in a sprint right now. But it's very difficult for me to implement this.

If you told me, hey, take a week off in the next six weeks, I'm like, there's no way. A whole week? Do you think it would help you out, though? Here's the thing. I'm going to... I'm going to commit, and I'm challenging you listeners to commit. Take a long weekend, three-day weekend. I'm going to do it this month, end of this month. I'm going to Boston this weekend.

Man, I have a bunch to catch up on. And I've got momentum right now. Can't do it three-day weekend. It's already Friday. Yeah, what are you talking about? It's four o'clock Friday. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, John. What do you think? Wow. He almost let it go, John, too. John, really?

You had nothing to say this whole entire time. And then the one thing. I'm over here. I'm over here praising you, giving you your flowers. Just let him see the transactional nature of this man. It's just like he didn't give you praise for praise sake. It was a.

deposit that he's now wow he's expecting i couldn't even cash it in that's the worst part appreciate the glazing for the guests that's i mean i'll keep doing that dude it's very nice i love that word glazing it's such a gen z word my friend's like yo why are you glazing and i'm like what the

What does that mean? You need to hang out with older people. Yeah. One of the things I thought about too, like alternative ways to work. Again, we have certain assumptions. This is how things are supposed to be. But...

What if we recorded three podcasts in one week? And then the other week is we just prepare. We go into a brainstorming creative room. Like John and I, we have this really... fun meetings where we're just like wouldn't it be fun to do this and what about that you know and the juices are flowing instead of like doing this like doing these sprints right

Okay, this week we're prepping this month's podcast. Then we're going to book all the guests. Then we record it all in one week. Then post-production editors, we put him on crack. Just one week of meth. Why not?

He edits all of them in a week and then boom, we have a month worth of content and I can travel because I only need to be in Austin for one week to record them all. So it just gets my... juices flowing i'm like yeah this guy can take a sabbatical every seven weeks i listen i think it's very doable also like having multiple podcasts a week and i've told you this i mean i'm like i'm not the permanent co-host but like if you ever

We can make it work. If I have time and you let me know in advance, dude, we can bang out three podcasts a week interviews. Yeah. And I think with our network, we have enough people. And, you know, with John, he can like give us all the people we need. Yeah. Two things on that. First off, our editor is a very disciplined young man. And I think that if he only did crack one week, every seven weeks, he would not get addicted. So I think that that's a safe experiment.

uh secondly that's how tim ferris uh he does his content like he'll only i think he does it on a shorter scale like he'll do monday uh and or friday if he's doing like youtube videos uh but or he'll only do like every other monday or something like that so on a smaller scale that works but that's what i've been curious about like can you run a podcast kind of like a like a tv show like you have

seasons like we're in pre-production for 10 episodes and then we're filming them all and doing it that way yeah do you know tim ferris uh he's my uncle yeah i mean you guys look alike to go bald um no i saw him randomly at the proper I didn't realize he lives in Austin. Oh, yeah. I've seen him multiple times in Austin. I've never approached him. Because you know why? Because I didn't have anything good to say. Okay. Wow. Never mind. Well, but here's the thing.

Tim Ferriss is somebody who actually said this himself, is it's better to make no impression than to make a bad impression. And so I'm like, could I make a good impression right now? No, I'm sweaty.

I'm walking down the street. I don't have anything good to say to him that he hasn't heard before. And he probably gets approached a lot. So I'm just like, I'm just going to leave him be. I mean, I saw him on a date with... two hot girls and i was like me too good job me too but that was oh that was years ago no i signed literally productivity master a couple months ago and i was like i was gonna be like yo good job and i was gonna walk away

That's literally what I was getting, but I didn't do it. I didn't do it. My friend, my, one of my friends saw him and he was like, Hey man, I love your work. And I was like, yeah, it was not happening. We're just kept on walking. See, he already did that. It's a really efficient way to date. Two girls at a time. I was more impressed with the girls he had.

I was like, good job. You know what would have supported him more? If you went up to the girls and you're like, good job, fist bump the girls. That would have been, well, you know what? What kind of glaze is that, John? That would have been some good wingmanning. That's next level glazing. Honestly, that's a great idea. If I ever see somebody famous and they're with a girl, you did a good job with this one.

You should just pretend to accomplish things that you've not accomplished. Like you go up to the girls, you're like, this man, Tim, he's the reason I'm a trillionaire. Yeah, he's the reason why I hate Leon. I was doing something horrible, but it wouldn't have made the cut. So I was going to be like, yeah, we're waiting for Sam Ovens to hop on. He's today's guest. He is the founder of School, the leading trillion dollar community platform.

It's almost like a new social media platform, but for learning and connecting around your passion. Oh, he's already, he's getting into the lobby now. He can sniff it. He can, he can. Knew what we're talking about. It is a billion dollar company now. He used to be the guy that you'd see in Facebook ads.

wearing a blue suit in his New York apartment to join his program to start a consulting business, consulting.com. And he's somebody that I actually learned a ton from. Like he's one of the few people where I really respect his thinking. what he's talking about actually oftentimes has led me to a new path. How are you doing, Sam? I'm good. Awesome. Where are you calling from? You're in the school office in LA? Yeah. Great.

I love the mug. Thank you. How have you been? Pretty good, yeah. Why did you say yes to the podcast? Why did you say, because I remember last time you were on, that was like a year ago, and you were like, yeah, I don't do podcasts. And you also said, I'm probably not going to do podcasts after this. And I reached out to you and you're like, yeah, sure. And I was like, oh, really? Well, I usually say yes to some.

And then I don't for a long time again. And then I say yes again because after there's been a break, like it's been almost a year, generally there's something to talk about, right? Right.

yeah so it's kind of interesting again but after i've if i do a couple and i and i notice that i'm like repeating myself a lot i'm like just get bored of it great perfect i like that that's a great i would have preferred the answer just like hey it's because everybody sucks and i just love it you leon but um that's what that's what he's hoping for and you did it perfectly sam so thank you

so this is my co-host imat you can just ignore him it's fine um but uh yeah you i was just about to say you are somebody who um brought me onto a new path when I sold my first business and then I got into YouTube and stuff like that. And one of the big things, one of the big shifts that I took was, if it's not fun, don't do it.

Of course, unless it's absolutely necessary, like taxes. And sometimes there's just some things you got to do, but that seems to be one of the themes that you focus on as well, right? And I was curious about that, like what that looks like in school, in your company. And I also saw you going through this right here, this image right here.

in the school news channel. And you were talking about, yeah, this was in the early days of school and your technical co-founder, Daniel, and a lot of the engineers that you have, they come from the gaming world, right? From Riot Games. And early on, you were working on something tedious and your co-founder asked, how can we make this fun? So what does it actually look like in school and how you apply it in your life? Like what are some real life examples where you've...

I guess, gamified things. Sure. so it doesn't always mean gamifying by the way but like i can give you an i can give you a perfect example which is the school news channel which is new right like because i i think i've made it kind of clear to people that I didn't like making videos on YouTube, like talking head videos. Right. And so I knew I was never going to do that again. Right. But maybe I shouldn't.

We saw some signs that we should be doing some more communication with our customers. We should be interfacing with them a bit more, sharing what we're doing and all of that. And a YouTube... video was good at doing that but i didn't like the old format of you know talking head so then i thought well is there a way to do youtube that is fun that doesn't suck so i was like

okay, well, what do I consume? And sure enough, it's not talking head at all. I don't consume any of that at all. And so it makes a lot of sense why I don't like making it either. and what i do consume a lot of is podcasts like longer form interesting conversations one they're not edited and they're always more than one person right so they're natural kind of conversations that kind of go all over the place

And I thought, okay, well, if we do it, we have to do that format, I think. And I also know that doing it with someone is more fun. Generally, if you do it with a friend, it's always more fun, right? like going to the gym or whatever um so i decided to do it with kirby and that way i'm talking to him instead of talking to an imaginary audience right like there's a person there

then I don't like cameras, I'm shy and I just get freaked out by them. So what I do like doing though is working on my computer. i sit in front of my computer every day and i'm quite comfortable doing that so i was like the computer has to be the centerpiece of this channel which is unique too because no one just puts a computer in the like

exactly where the guest should be or something, right? So we did that. And then I made the computer setup identical to my normal desk setup so that even the keyboard and mouse is the same. So I just feel very natural. And then the other thing is we talk about school, which is what I like to talk about. So I'm doing it with a friend. It's podcast, kind of long form style.

I'm looking at my computer and talking about school. It's actually what I do naturally every day. So we're just, I don't even feel like I'm making content. if that makes sense. And so now I would say it's actually fun to make. And the other thing is, is we've got a guy who does the camera switching live. So the moment it's done, it's edited. Because the other thing that I hate is editing.

And so there is no editing process here. And then it's like consistent format. I don't have to come up with new ideas. It's just like every week, Tuesday, same time, never really more than 30 minutes. So I think you get the point. Basically what I'm, you know, if you just said, oh, we need to make YouTube videos, my initial reaction would be like, oh, like, no, I've done that. I'm not doing that again. But there's a way to do it, actually. That is fun.

Does that make sense? Yeah. You've made it simple for yourself. It's like something you're already doing. Just put a camera, call it a day, and now kill two birds with one stone. Yeah, you have to look at why it isn't fun. Yeah.

and it you have to break it down because generally you like label it at a higher level you're like no video bad but it's more than that you have to kind of like dissect it a bit and it's like no i don't like talking to a camera i don't like this yeah i've never actually thought about like that why it isn't fun i've never heard anybody talk about it like from that perspective that's so interesting because you're like reverse engineering of like all right the things i dislike about it and if i can

get rid of the things i dislike then i can actually make it a more pleasurable experience it's interesting yeah this makes me think of um a friend of mine i i was like man i need to i need to bring on this new person on my team but i hate hiring

This is a bad thing to hate, by the way, as an entrepreneur. You hate hiring. You avoid it. You're going to have a bad time. I'm telling you from experience. And he was like, why do you hate it? And I'm like, it just feels like you never know when you find the person.

And there's so much uncertainty and there seems to be no clear path because it seems to just randomly happen. Like you get to try a bunch of stuff and it just feels like you're looking for a needle in a haystack. And my friend said... oh, I love hiring. I'm like, why do you love hiring? Because he was like, and he was like, because it's like digging for gold.

Because you never know when you find it, but when you find them, it's like you found a chunk of gold. And even just the way we thought about it, for me, it was a needle in a haystack. For him, it was digging for gold. Of course he liked it because he was just hunting for that one person that's going to change the business. And I think that alone, like how you think about things makes a big difference. Did it make hiring fun? I delegated it to him. I was like, great. How about you do it then?

You're asking all the right questions. There's only one way to make hiring fun. What is it? Have a recruiter that's really good. Yeah. And. It's still not that fun, honestly. I was waiting for the punchline. I built up this whole thing. I was just like, there is hope. You can still make things like it still sucks.

But you've done, we talked about it last time on the podcast too. You've done hundreds of interviews to find your technical co-founder, right? Like I think you said, when we were hanging out in Temecula, you said it was... the most difficult one of the most difficult things you've ever done if not the most difficult thing is just like interview after interview and then but finding that person was that big thing that uh changed everything 100 yeah um

One of the things you talked about too is that you spend a lot of time prioritizing, right? Like there's so many customer requests coming in, so many features and things that you could work on. You have this big spreadsheet of these are all the things that we could do.

But which one do we do first? So how do you prioritize things? How do you go through it right now? I know it's a messy process. They're not like a clean, clear answer where it's like, oh, I do this. But what are some of the things that you walk through in your mind to... to make decisions yes so i write down the things right like there's just a bunch of things you write them down and then you put a number on them and

then once you think you've got it again this is made so much easier if you have someone to talk to about it so i tend to get the the things up on the screen and then i show someone like kirby or i might just get on zoom with a customer like a customer i've got a good relationship with and i'm like what do you think is most important and i ask a bunch of other people it really helps you shortcut it like

I swear most people kill themselves sitting down with problems and not just using other people. Feedback. It really helps, honestly. And then that can often help. And then after I get a few different perspectives, one of my favorite perspectives to get is my wife's. So usually I get like my team's perspective, the customer's perspective, a few different customers.

then my wife and then i kind of let it marinate a bit and and it it kind of just pops out generally i think that's yeah that's yeah that's not the go-to thing right but it goes back to like who not how and maybe you've heard of that concept like instead of asking myself how do i solve this problem is who do i need to talk to who do i need to hire or who has already solved that problem that can shortcut it for me it's not intuitive because want to go and just like, oh, let me fix it. But.

Well, it's also feedback. And I think the biggest thing is getting as much feedback as possible. And we were just talking about that on the last podcast and we were just talking about the endpoints where it's like a lot of successful entrepreneurs use that tool more than.

not successful entrepreneurs and a lot of people are too afraid to like ask for that kind of support but also they're afraid to put their ego out there and have it shut down when in reality the best entrepreneurs are like hey please

poke holes in this idea and tell me how i can make it even better yeah yeah it's um it's i definitely didn't use it a lot earlier on but when you make something so big like school that depends on other people you really live and die based on like how you listen to the feedback

and it's impossible to get right on their first go so it makes you very good at that process and i think i've taken that and applied it to everything i do now so like for example we made a video recently it hasn't been published yet but Before I would just make a video, wouldn't even really show it to anyone and then just publish it, right? But now I made the video and we went around internally with people inside the office until we kind of got it to a point where we were happy.

And then we went out and gave it to like, I don't know, 20 customers. And we're like, what do you think? I swear like 60% of them viscerally hated it. Wow. What video was it? What kind of video was it? Well, it's not out yet. And you won't see the version they hated. But I was like, oh, that's funny. Your initial reaction is like, oh, fuck these guys, man. They don't understand. Like, this is art.

this is art putting your heart out there so was it a video uh for people who use school on like how to grow their community oh okay i'll give you some context it was just like a a one minute vsl for this ghoulers community we just wanted to kind of make a little hype video of what it what's inside right um and

Then, you know, I showed it to my wife and she's always like a good litmus test because I kind of liked it. The people at the office kind of liked it, but the 60% of the customers didn't like it. So I was okay. It's gonna be interesting to show my wife tonight. I show her it and then she just looks at me and she's like silent. I'm like, fuck. I was not expecting that.

And then I was pissed off and I was like, let's watch a movie. But then when I woke up in the morning... and went back to it in the morning i was like oh they're right like i know something's wrong with this so then i tried something very different but same kind of video but something very different the vibe was like way off i think

um and the thing i was trying to do i thought was funny wasn't obvious to people so they just thought it was serious which anyway um then we redid it and then we went back and then people loved it like like like 95 of the people that hate hated it loved it and then my wife liked it again and i was like okay perfect like so just getting that feedback

before you go public with something. What really sucks is when you go public with something for real and 60% of people hate it. Real question, which one did you like more? The first one or the second one?

honestly um honestly the second one okay fair enough so you know i can be a bit too like um artistic sometimes right and this isn't just my like art you know there's there's a there's other people that care about this too right so yeah some you can't be too artistic sometimes with with things and that's why i don't like making videos because there's like no constraints honestly i really love software because of the extreme constraints on it

but like a video can go in a million different directions and i basically want to make like lord of the rings every time um which is impossible and so i just like Yeah, it drives me crazy, honestly. One of the tools that you talked about for decision-making that you use, I guess, in some situations where it makes sense.

is the yes, no, pick a wheel, which I think is actually, it seems like a joke, but I think it actually makes sense. So can you tell us about that? Sure.

you know there's like a lot of the time if you can't decide which like some things are quite trivial but you still need to make a decision right which thing should i do first this thing or that thing if you're like if you if you can't really figure it out then we'll spin it and then just do that one first because otherwise you would have you might have sat there and wasted all of this energy like trying to think about it right um

or like claire came to me who's like our office manager the other day she was like should i buy another one of these signs it's like this illuminated school sign thing and i asked her what for and i was like what do you think And she was like, oh, I don't know. And I was like, maybe we don't need it. Like trying to err on the side of minimalism. And then she was like, oh no. And I could tell she kind of wanted it.

And then I asked someone else, I was like, I asked Kirby, I was like, what do you think? He was like, and I was like, fuck this, get the wheel out, spun it, it said yes, and I was like, buy it. Love it. great i think it was like a four grand sign so you know it's like a four grand decision but there like three or four people were going to be involved in this thing it's just just move on you know sometimes you need something to just like i'll give you another example um like

you know trying to decide on what you should get from like uber eats with your girlfriend or wife or whatever you guys done this yeah so the process your wife's like oh let's get let's get some takeaway or uber eats whatever and i'm like okay what do you want i don't know then she's like what do you want i don't know then like should we get this and she's like no my oh like but when you think about it really and this can go on for quite some time right

but really when you think about it you probably only go to like four places right there's probably only four places that are good that you like so why don't you just put why don't you just spin a wheel all four places dude there was a there was a meme there was a video that where the guy found the perfect answer for that you guys should try it out it's actually great you go to your wife or partner or whatever and you say i have a surprise for you today guess where i'm taking you

And then she'll start naming things. And they'll be like, oh my god, guess what we're going to do after? And she'll just keep naming these things. And you're like, you're just so good.

You just know me so well. Now I can't even surprise you. Then you take her exactly where she told you she wanted to go. Because that's where her first feeling of like, oh, I really want to get tacos today. I really want to get Japanese. You're like, thank God. Now I don't have to worry about this stuff. I feel like you need to get a...

decisive girlfriend or wife for that first. Mine would be like, I don't know. But I think the hack that I found is just absolute delusional certainty. When she asks, what should we get? It's like... Definitely this. This is the best. And you just hype it up. You don't even know what you're talking about, but it rubs off. And they're like, because they're really just looking for certainty. But what if that's not what you want?

that's see i always put that second yeah and then i have regret later but i save time find the answer come on relax like it's not about us right now all right we're trying to figure out what we want to eat all right we'll be here all day I think this is one of the things you talked about that was really interesting is maybe a good heuristics for making these decisions, too. You said that oftentimes people that have communities, oftentimes younger people, they come to you and they go, you know.

I think I should do this community because it's this big opportunity and I know I could do it really well and it's not untapped. But I also, you know, there's this other thing that like, ah, I think I would really like this. And you just ask them,

well, which one do you want to do? And then they defend the, oh, but I should do this, I should do that. And then the moment they surrender to being like, I actually just want to do this other thing. There's no sure, there's just like, you know, which one would you like more? um and then there's like this relief and i've had that in my career as well when i you know when i went into content creation and being creative and having fun with the content um i think it's a good heuristic to just go

which one would be more fun? Like screw the like ROI, the opportunity, the money, but like what's more energizing? What's more fun? Sam, I have a quick question.

How did your growth and way of thinking shift from going from having like a massive consulting business to now going into tech? Because those are two different worlds. Well, I mean, almost everything is... different as it could be so like it's you know going from making content as an individual creator to making a platform is it's there's almost

nothing that translates to the world something very important does which is an understanding of the user right so like that is the advantage because you're kind of building it for yourself

But the disadvantage, which is ginormous, is that you haven't built a platform before. Yeah, which is why most platforms aren't built. Well, almost no platforms are built by... people that make content right because it's not content at all yeah i love that and that's why that's why it took you so long to find that right person because it's like how can i take my brain and

have them or present the idea to them and have them create the vision. Obviously you need somebody kind of out of the space and coming from a different kind of way of thinking to help you build it. Yeah, it was, it's kind of a good. The beautiful thing about solving a really hard problem is that you're forced to do things. So like, there is no way I'm going to build it myself. It's impossible.

right because we're trying to build something that's quite difficult to make it's essentially like a social network right which is there's not a whole bunch of those there's not a whole bunch of people that can make them like it's impossible for me to get to that level of skill and proficiency to make it right because the people that like the my co-founder had been coding like 15 hours a day for 20 years and he's like a genius too

so like it's not just the input right so that just forced me i was like i there's no way to succeed at this unless i find this person so it's just very simple i was like you get this person or you don't do it It's funny because I think most people would have started to look for that person.

And then after months of looking for them and not finding anyone, they would have gone, what is something else that I can do to at least feel like I'm making progress? Like I heard this quote recently, we're kept from our goals, not by obstacles, but by a clear path to a lesser goal.

And it's so easy to just go, I don't really know how or when I'm going to get there. There must be something else I can do that at least makes me feel like I can... check off a box. Like what kept you going to just go, you know what, even if it takes me a year, if it takes me years, I'm going to keep looking for that person. Well, I was like, am I going to do it or not?

And the only way I'm going to do it is if I find this person and I still think I want to do it. So I need to find this person. And I was like, if I don't, I basically quit. So. that kept me going and it just really did feel like this was what i was supposed to do like a very deep feeling like that so that definitely kept me going um Yeah. Did you give yourself a time limit? No. However long it took, basically. Yeah. So then for like the listeners listening to this, how long is long enough?

Like if it took you 10 years, you know. To find a person? Would you have still committed to this goal because deep down you knew it was going to work for 10 years? 10 years. You know. i don't think so because there's so much stuff changes in 10 years that the opportunity might have like moved right um but yeah i think that that's where time dimensions with goals like they can be useful i set goals for myself right and they're always quite ambitious but

I almost never hit them in the time frame. But that doesn't mean I failed. It was just something to aim for. Because sometimes the most important thing is actually getting there. not like lowering your standards and getting there sooner. Right. So like, yeah, I could have just found a co-founder, but if they weren't good and we, then we would have made something that sucked and then we would fail anyway. So like, what's the point?

When you talk to him, did you have a gut feeling instantly where you're like, oh, this is the guy? Or was it like, oh, they added to the list of potential, and then over time it was like, yep, I think he's checking the boxes. Or was it like a...

just a gut feeling um i would say intuition and feeling wise it was like yes but logic wise it wouldn't i was i think that's what i was doing wrong before that i was approaching everything like with too much logic trying to find the person um and that had led me down the wrong path but it turned out to be the right signal here yeah so it felt right but it my mind was like it shouldn't be that easy or something

yeah interesting we were talking about this earlier before before you hopped on sam like um we have certain expectations in our minds of what something should look like and even when it's right in front of our faces we're like oh no it shouldn't be this easy i need to put in more hours, do more of this, right? That's interesting. I think even Jeff Bezos, he talked about that where he makes some of the biggest decisions just based off of intuition and gut feeling.

And it's like, yeah, like it makes sense that we should do this, but I just have a feeling we should do that. And it's like, why do you think that is? That those decisions oftentimes end up being the right ones. That's a pretty deep question. So... Well, I think you can't really... use data to to get yourself there when you're innovating right like it's not all facts you have to take leaps of faith you have to have a vision

which can sometimes seem like delusional. And you have to have something deep inside of you, which is, it almost feels like that's what you're supposed to do or it makes sense to you, but you don't even really know why.

and i think there's something very deep there about like and and i i've noticed the people that make the best music art movies businesses all of them they all use this thing right it's it's probably the most important thing actually um yeah and i think you can tune it too but i think all of the best founders and artists and innovators have had this thing yeah and i think everyone's got it actually you just can

If you ignore it and you don't develop it, you can kind of lose it. Yeah, I think the way to get in touch with it is to remove inputs and also just kind of get out of your own way. Like removing the logic and just being like, what do I feel? Like one of the things that I heard when it comes to tapping into your intuition is that when I ask myself, should I do this?

And my brain comes up with a bunch of reasons. Yeah, it's because of this, because of that. It's oftentimes a decision made from the brain, from a certain brain region that we actively think with. Whereas the intuition part... When I'm asking myself, should I do this? It's pretty quiet, but there's a feeling that just tells me yes. And my theory around intuition is that...

It's a different type of intelligence that we tap into that is subconscious, where our subconscious brain is calculating all these things, all these random inputs that we're not even aware of, and it just...

computes it and then brings it up as a feeling. It's just like, don't trust this person, you know, or go this route or try this new thing. And we are so active with our... with our active minds that we're just like no but what about this i should do that but like the inner knowing i think it just takes like quieting down to encourage to listen to it

Yeah, the alchemist actually talks, if you guys have read the alchemist, the alchemist talks about that, where he says, and it's kind of going back to what you said, Sam, where the heart tries to speak to you. And the longer you go without listening to the heart, the quieter it gets. And then it gets to a point where it just stops.

speaking to you and you're just like all right cool i'm done i've done my part and that feeling you're talking about is like the way i look at is when i'm making it when i'm taking uh making like decisions off intuition When I think of something, if I feel like pain or I feel like tenseness in my body, my body's telling me, ah.

This might not be the right thing. And I just look for that, especially when I'm going to make a decision. I'm like, how does my body feel right now? Am I like happy about this? Am I excited? Or do I feel like some doubt, some uncertainty? And I think that really could be a good navigator as well that I've seen works for me really well.

What are some big decisions that you're currently chewing on? Are there any when it comes to school? Like any like, go this way, go that way. Should we focus on this or that or food? hmm well there yeah there has been some but we haven't like shipped them yet so i don't know if i should say them um But there is, there's definitely been some big things which I've been contemplating for like eight, nine months, honestly. And I've been working towards for like eight, nine months.

that will be coming out in the next like two or three weeks so great let's take a driven exclusive we have the insider information We don't know what it is, but it's something. All right. Something big. That's what we're going to pitch it as. Something big is coming. So I know you had some opinions about AI last time we talked.

You're not an AI expert. You're not somebody who is up to date with the latest things, I'm assuming. What are your thoughts now, if you have any? So I still think the general hype of it and everything is like way overdone. But I'm not like anti-AI. what we actually use it a lot for things in our company school um the main thing we use it for is like platform moderation so detecting like you know spammers scammers fraud like bots right all kinds of things that are bad actors essentially and

learning their patterns and taking action against them. And so we use it. a lot and oh another thing is on school if you go to like school.com you know how these categories communities are in categories we've got like 10 categories so we use it to categorize communities um so it like reads the description and everything of the community and it puts them in a category uh so we use it but it's like i'm more of the person which is like

and there's some people that are like ai is going to change everything and if you're not using it for everything you're a idiot and that's to me that's just so stupid i'm more like what can we use it for like actually And it's like, okay, the categorization might have been two or three people's jobs. The moderation, oh my God, we're able to moderate a platform with 15 million users with one person.

Because there's the AI. And fraud, again, our platform processes a huge amount of money. And we have one fraud person. yeah it's more like specific but me personally like what in my day i don't really use it a whole lot

Although my wife told me, oh, you should read this book on parenting. And I asked ChatGPT, I was like, give me a summary. So... you know i even and i do actually the thing i use it the most for is making funny photos of like my friends and team members um i'm like this dude put this face on this like goose or something right like and and it can actually write pretty funny shit if you like say write a rap lyric write like a rap song about this um it so it

i i use it for some things but it's not like i'm not going to be one of those people that's and i'm sure you guys know the kinds of people i'm talking about right that are making everyone panic on the internet yeah The AI doomers. Yeah, I think it's like this sexy topic that, you know, of course, a lot of people get clicks on it. And it's just, it's again, just attention hijacking. And the people who are making content, they incentivized to...

Have a hot take because that's what goes viral either massively against it or massively for it And the people who are in AI in AI startups, of course, they say this is going to be the big thing Right. Like everyone is incentivized to talk about that. It's the same thing with like crypto or NFTs. If any of you remember what that was all about.

like we don't hear anything about nfts now but there's still hope it used to be like this oh this is gonna change everything you're gonna own everything there's gonna be it's just um the people who own nfts of course they wanted everyone to think this is gonna be the next thing because that's how they make more money um

Yeah, no, that makes sense. I think AI is far from taking over everything. And we've had AI for so long. If you think about it, it was just really shitty. Like there was a lot of websites that had a chatbot. that you would type in a word and they would be able to help you with, oh, closing your account. That's technically also AI. It was just really shitty.

dude my friend called me yesterday i went to an event a marketing event and my friend literally called me she had one conversation with somebody and she's like Drop it all. All right. That's it. Six months. AI is going to take all sales jobs. It's going to take everything. They're not going to need salespeople anymore. The company you're doing right now, switch it. Forget about getting people. Get AI. I'm sitting here. I'm like, I'm just trying to go to bed.

I'm like, I didn't want to think about this. Just leave me alone. Like, I don't care. I really just let me, let me be happy with what I have going on. I had an idea. Just let me smile and just leave me alone. But it's the same thing you guys are talking about. It's like everybody just get like one conversation and they're just like, that's it.

I have all the information. I think everyone has one moment like that. Did you have one moment like that where you're like, oh shit, I think this is gonna... Did you have it? Maybe was it late at night when you were tired and your brain wasn't functioning right? Anything, Sam? Are you talking to me? Yeah, is there any time where you had that? What, with AI? Yeah. Thinking it's going to just replace everything? Yeah, like just one bad night. Yeah, just make us feel better.

Because it can't be only us right now. No, never. Wow. Should have just lied to us, Sam. Different breed. No, because I mean, like, you just have to try it. it's it's it's impressive but it's far from taking over everything and i don't even know if it can right like it's The most impressive version of it, I'd say, is Tesla Autopilot. That thing's actually pretty good, and I use it. That's pretty impressive, that one.

But as far as taking over everything, like, I don't think so. Like, we still use humans for customer support, and... As far as coding goes, I know AI is a long way away from taking over that, because the best software engineers don't even use it for coding. It's more of the junior vibe coders that use it.

And so if you talk to people that are deep in the industry, they have a different take on it. The people that are super hyped about it aren't technical. They're hypers. You know what I mean? The marketers.

yeah that's a good that's a good way to put it that's actually very good yeah like we actually use it like low level like embeddings and low level like ai from from um open ai like the lower level stuff not just chat gpt but their embeddings api and things so like we use it properly and we we kind of know what it can do and it's impressive and it's useful but

we approach it like rationally right instead of just thinking it's going to take over everything of course and the photos you can't forget about the photos that's the important part as well i love the photo thing like

it got a lot better recently because i asked it to do one like a year ago or something and it sucked but you know usually i'd have to photoshop someone's face onto something funny now i can just quickly do it yeah it's so funny the older generations like i'm thinking about you know our parents

There's literally videos on YouTube of clearly AI-generated videos of Trump saying something wild. Or Elon Musk has a channel where he's like, oh, like and subscribe. And the comments are full of people. Wow, thank you for this great content, Elon. They don't even know it's AI. And it clearly has like six fingers on each hand. People like that, that is like, oh, that's concerning. But it's also, it's also funny.

What? So you guys are freaking out that AI is going to take over everything? No, we're not freaking out. We're just hoping you're going to... Support us in this journey and not have us be the only ones. I'm bad at doing that. Like, I generally just say what I think instead. Listen, we love your honesty. Listen, it hurt us, but we love it. We appreciate the honesty.

So there are some guests that we have on where we're like, hey, we have a crazy idea for them. Sometimes it's a trillion dollar business idea and we just share it with them. All we ask is 1%. In equity, if they take the idea, that's only 10 billion if you make a trillion.

For you, we actually have something prepared that is, I think, going to be a big brand level up because we're always noticing patterns on this podcast. We're always noticing what's the next level up. And for you, Sam, there's something that we noticed. with a lot of billionaires. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. So billionaire rebrands, if you look at, for example, Mark Zuckerberg, right?

He used to look like this on the left, spying on you, no eyebrows. He had the lizard look. He pivoted to Gen Z broccoli hair, wearing glasses. Now he looks like a human being that's about to wrap at any point. 100%. Right? He's done everything he could to rebrand himself. Which version do you guys prefer? I'm really curious. Listen, I like the jujitsu version. Really?

It's funny. I like full lizard. That was more authentic, I swear. Yes, 100%. Here's the thing. I don't think anyone's buying the one on the right. But I'm not going to take your feedback here. I'm not going to destroy the idea that I came up with. So the right is way better. Next example. Do you know this guy, Brian Johnson? This is what he used to...

He used to look like this. He was normal. He was mortal. Had a job, he looks like, or, you know, some company. He looked like a normal fella. Today, brand pivot clearly to, again, Gen Z. He's wearing necklace. He's wearing these cool shirts. He's got cool style. He looks, you know, zaddy. Younger than your unborn child. He meets the Kardashians. He talks about his erections.

your rebrand is completely different. And I think that's where the gap is. Back in the day, Sam Evans, you see his ads behind your eyelids. He's a dapper young hustler living in New York. Looks like he's auditioning for Wolf of Wall Street. And now you rebranded completely to Father, Inner Peace, Serenity, Chill. Jesus. You are zagging while every other billionaire person zags.

so what would it look like if you rebranded again and you get the broccoli haircut chains you adopt the slang i think that's what's next nft art museum Maybe own an esports team. And you got to pick a category. Longevity. What is it? Jiu-jitsu. Is it the AI revolution? And hey, Sam, we're just here to support you. All right. What do you think? um i honestly don't know like i don't even think about it as rebranding i just kind of let it unfold and didn't care because

And the one thing that enabled that to happen was that I wasn't making content or like trying to build a personal brand. So yeah. Honestly, it feels like this is all logic speaking right now, but your intuition is really telling you this is the new you. This is the real you. So we've already contacted your team, your executive assistant. You have a haircut.

You're going to get this hairstyle. The wardrobe is ready. So we're looking forward to seeing the rebrand. You're going to get new ice. I don't even have an assistant, by the way. Who did we talk to? Kirby. That's what it was. okay um so yeah i mean whatever comes from that rebrand we'll take we'll take a cut yeah one percent one percent we're not asking for a lot yeah but i think jokes aside

I think a lot of people do this where they think about what does the market need? Who should I be? What would be a good brand? And they think about, oh, these words, I combine these. When in reality, the best thing you can do is just be like, who am I? And then literally just be that. Because I think, yeah, like the Mark Zuckerberg thing, you're right. Like the previous one is fully authentic. Him just going full lizard. That's him.

And he's kind of maxed out the charisma training and whatever coaches he hired and stylists. But, like, nobody's really buying it. So, like, why... Why does he do like what went on in the boardroom or in the company where they were like, yes, this is the right move. Let's. I mean, do you think it made it like, do you think him making that transformation made Facebook better?

No, it didn't make him more trustworthy. I mean, I don't know. What do you think, Sam? Well, I think what's interesting is that it got worse during that transformation. Okay, why? Same thing happened with Bezos too, right? Yes. That's the pattern. So when you're focused and not thinking about it, you, you know, his main creation before was that, but I've heard that.

And this is from people, because we've got people on our team that used to work at Facebook, right? And they said Zuck is in his fuck it phase. Okay. Same thing with Elon Musk, it seems like. They're all in their fucking face. I think it makes sense because I saw an interview with Zuckerberg a while ago too, and the guy who introduced him said like, oh, you've built the largest...

thing on the internet ever you've achieved this and you're like basically you've done everything and hyped them all up and then after the intro he was like yeah where to from here as if to say there's only one way to go from which is down yeah i guess so like you may as well just like fuck it like

Where can you go from there? And you're just waiting until you're not there anymore, right? So Sam, is that the next step for you, the fuck it phase? Or are you there? What's happening? I'm definitely... I mean, Facebook's got like, what, two or three billion users or something? And Zuckerberg's like, yeah. So, I mean, I'm far from there. I'm in, like, building phase. Got it. So we'll have another interview when you're at the fuck it phase, and then it'll be a whole different rebrand.

yeah i don't even know if this is a phase that everyone goes through but i mean that's just what i've noticed from from seeing some of these things and it's not like i've looked into them at all it's just It's interesting because I did follow Bezos's journey and I've read his books and followed Amazon and then to see him just go wild is kind of interesting. It seems like a pattern. It seems like a stage of evolution, right? It's just like.

But I think it's also important to look at what phase am I in right now and what's the right advice to filter from, right? So because I could talk to certain people that are like, oh, you just need to... grind and hustle and i'm like i've already i already developed the discipline now it's more about actually just going with the flow and following my intuition right like how how do you currently i guess

take input and decide what apply to yourself like how do you keep the input pure in terms of developing myself or like doing what i do I guess both. I guess they go hand in hand. It's very different for me because I am not really a part of school at all. I'm not the face of school or anything. I honestly never really even think about myself ever. And I find that very helpful. And so what I'm focusing on is the product and the users.

and my team so i'm like we want to have the best team they should be happy and our users should love the platform they should be happy i need to listen to my team need to listen to my users and our product should be the best and then i'm like how can I move those things forward? And I can talk to my team. I can talk to my users. I can use the other products, right? I can use my own one and I can, I'm just trying to make those things better.

you know i've noticed about like the conversation right now we're having is like you're very hyper focused and it's like you have like one goal and you're just not tailoring across you're like this is the goal this is what i'm gonna do i'm gonna focus on this and i'm gonna get it done

So you try not to get distracted by all the different things. You're just kind of like the big vision. So what's the big mission? What's the vision for you? Like if you could say in like one sentence for school, for yourself, like what's the big vision?

To help a billion people find community. Beautiful. I love that. How long did it take you to get there, to that clarity of vision? Was that a... iterative process that just developed itself over time yeah it definitely takes time it's like not like it just pops out um and i don't even think it got that clear until we were at least three years in maybe more

right? So in the beginning, it's just, I like this market. I like online entrepreneurs who are independent and who make money doing what they love, right? Hanging out with other weirdos like them. like i love that space so i wanted to do something in that space i also love software and i wanted to build a platform which is like the ultimate form of software if you're trying to build the gnarliest piece of software as a platform and so i was like i want to build a platform for this market right

And I want to work with the best software engineers and I want to have the best product. And then I think if we do this right, it could get to the scale of a billion users. And there's only a handful of products that have ever done that.

like google gmail instagram facebook youtube you know the big ones maps there's only a handful or something of them and so it's like if you if you're going to build something on the internet that's the peak of the peak right and i i quite like making things on the internet and i wanted to do something challenging so i was like okay let's let's have a go And so that, that was kind of it at the start, but then, you know, we're building a community platform and it's just like.

it doesn't sound as good if you say like to build a thing that a million a billion people use right yeah so we made it more about like finding community um and so it it takes time to develop like it takes years actually and i think this is one thing that content gets you isn't good at training you because With content, you have to produce so much and say so much. And you always need to keep just tuning out more stuff, right? Whereas for me to find a nice little sentence.

took like four years or something right yeah and it doesn't even make the for the best content if i put that out on twitter it probably just flopped so yeah No, but it's because I think we were because I used to work with closers that I owe a while back and we were one of the early adopters of school and it made life so much easier.

like genuinely like and i'm just saying this because you're here it's the reality is it's just so simple that anybody could use it and we have like old people coming in using this platform i'd have to sit there and explain like the other competitors where i'm like you're gonna do what it is it's literally up top

You look at the calendar, you look at this, you look at this, and you can find everything you wanted. What's going on here? I mean, to us with these, with Imad, Imad, how do you say your name? Imad. Yeah, I mean, close enough. That works. You guys are doing like a... and um like a multi-person podcast now well leon's a serious one i'm the funny one so he needed the personality and that's why he brought me on board and not jamie's not on the podcast he's the he's the producer

Got it. Okay. He's our technical support and he pulls up stuff. Leon says that if I talk while the guest is on, it's going to embarrass him, and I'm not allowed to do that. Jamie, stop. This is perfect. Good job now, Jamie. That's what I wanted to hear. Sam's very important, and I don't want to embarrass Leon in front of him, so sorry. No, you know how Joe Rogan has Jamie? I got it. We just copy pasted the whole, just like, I'm shaving my head tonight too.

any pattern i see i just do it and then it just i just become ultra successful that's how it always works um that's what we have for school news too basically is someone who's got the you know the live camera switching thing Yeah, exactly. Are you switching the cameras, Jamie? Make sure you do that. Yeah, I'm logged into Riverside, which is doing it automatically, and I'm diligently monitoring it. It seems like you're like full hippie now.

Me? This is not very rigid at all. Yeah. I'm so happy you said it, Sam. I'll give you the background. I'll give you the background because, Sam, we were at a mastermind. It was a very small group. We were like 15 people.

a few hours outside of los angeles and sam was there chris williamson charlie from chris one command and i talked to sam about what should i do next i was just pivoting out of my youtube channel that was a pain and uh one of the things you said to me was just like you just need to loosen up like just like just just so rigid right and so um yes that has been uh it has been a big journey for me

Like just there's a lot of things that I know. Here's the thing. I did start an interview channel where it was just a guest. I started a new channel. Didn't tell anyone about it. The fourth episode got like 5 million views. I got 100,000 subscribers from that one episode because I know how to package things. I know how to make it successful. And I was like, fuck, I don't want that. And then I started a new channel again and I left that channel behind as well.

But it's like one of the worst things is becoming successful with something you know you don't want to do. Right. And so talking about becoming less rigid.

What makes you laugh, Sam? Like what's the kind of humor that when somebody sends you a meme or a video or shows you something that makes you laugh? well a lot of the time it's like insider things i guess like you know we've got different people on our team so if you troll them in a particular way and you know them it's funny you know like that kind of stuff i like

That's always really funny to me. Okay. But I found that show Silicon Valley, like really funny. So good. What is it? Silicon Valley. It's a great show. Tell me about it. That's the kind of humor I like. It's very.

how would you describe that kind of like dry and it's dry but it's like it's like four four nerds that basically have a great idea that they do it better than everybody else and then they sort of they build a company off it and they're just like messing up in the worst possible ways and they're just

And I like that. Like, I love that kind of thing where it's trolling a particular stereotype or something. It's like the roommate that let them live with him and then he wants 10% of the company because he's housing them, but he's practically useless.

oh he's just the company just talks that's it he's just like a voice but yeah it's like you all right you know what well we didn't have to do all that you just gotta watch it you might it's either your thing or not but i found that very funny yeah it's a good show okay we're not really prepared then because here's the thing we prepared a little bit something for you sam you are i think

widely, worldwide, globally regarded as the most focused, most disciplined man in America. You invented monk-like discipline. And we have a side quest for this episode is to make you break focus, to make you laugh. And we're going to do a try not to laugh challenge. You're not allowed to laugh. You're not even allowed to smirk. You smirk, you lose. You're not allowed to have any joy. And if we win...

You share with us what feature you're shipping next that you can't reveal yet. You're taking us on on this bat. Are you taking this bet, Sam? After the billionaire rebrands, I'd feel pretty confident if I was him, not going to lie. Are you taking this bet? Are you taking this challenge, Sam? Are you accepting it? I'm just thinking of the timelines, like when this is going to release. Oh, he's already playing not to lose. Okay. My downside right now. How logical he is. He's so logical.

We need some music. Share with us something. Anything. It can be equity in school. I'll take that. No, no, no. It's got to be something. It's got to be stakes. Listen, from somebody that's using the product, that's a very big piece of information. Hey, we're about to get some equity in school here. You're right. My bad. Okay. So we prepared some videos.

Try not to laugh. Try not to smirk. Try to not have any joy. And the winner gets a new feature. So this is a big thing. The new gurus that replaced you, since you're not doing consulting.com anymore, they're on a different level. This is Royce Dupont. I don't know if you've heard of him before, but insane sales coach. Let's have a look. How many cars did you sell this month? 35. Oh, 35. Not bad. How many are you going to sell next month? How about this?

how about you sell 50 cars or i kill your entire family would you sell 50 yeah yeah right if you find a way your family's on the line about 60. 60 cars or I murder your family with my bare hands. Yeah, of course. 70. Yeah. 200 cars in a month or I slaughter your entire family. That's a lot of cars. They'd be dead, Jake. I'm gonna figure it out. Okay, 1,000.

10,000. 10,000 cars or I execute your triplets. How'd you go, man? Right there. That's my basement. They can't hear you. You have one month. Clock's ticking, cowboy. See, guys, success is a mindset. Guy went from selling 35 cars in a month to 10,000. It's all here, right? Jamie, did we record any... Was there any noise from Sam? Was there any laughter?

I didn't hear any laughter. Okay, I didn't find it funny at all. Imad, you didn't laugh. You didn't... We just cut away from Imad. Doesn't count. So, okay, we're still even. Okay, let's see what we have next. Is it like a trolling account or something? Oh, we're going to have him on next episode. Royce DuPont. That guy. He's... Yes, it's a trolling account. Let's see. What else do we have? I love how serious he is. Yes. Oh, are you aware of RFK? I'll tell you something that was fucking funny.

okay what is it it's this like video of uh dan pina doing a um he's doing some kind of like live event like in person and it's and that what's funny about it is that it's it's not sarcastic it's fully serious Do you want to hear some funny things? So we have a segment in the podcast called Guru of the Week. We had him on twice, not on the podcast, but we featured him and we've talked to his team to get him on.

So we're in the works of that, of getting him on? I wanted to make a video, like a clip of this guy, and label it like the baddest dude in info. Because this dude is the baddest. Like he brought a gun to this conference and he like stuck it in his mouth and he was like shouting at everyone. And like he said that his testosterone was 1500.

i emailed him he was being and then he but people had paid like 25 grand for this fucking experience yeah i was like who's paying 25 grand to get insulted like that one of my friends did it twenty thousand dollars to go and get it help him and first of all like how like like 1500 testosterone that sounds unsafe yeah that is extremely unsafe yeah do you want to play one of the clips uh john jamie absolutely

met anybody like me and you probably never will because you're a cunt what is the vagina cream i give you this vagina cream so you can rub it on your snaps because you're all cunt all right i think we got him don't you understand that look at that dude in the audience everyone's just staring at him like am i learning something sam that could have been you that could have been your brand

I emailed him to get him on the show and his assistant sent me 59 questions to answer about, about our show. And the very last one was, are you aware that Dan Pena uses. language that's not family friendly. And I replied, we were hoping he'd call Leon a cunt on the show. We use it in the trailer. stopped responding so i don't think that's going anywhere oh god i'll follow up in a week we'll get this guy is the funniest dude in info because he is deadly serious

Look at the background too. He has pictures of him skydiving. He's the godfather. The godfather. Go to the right. On the screen, he's skydiving. It's kind of adorable. I don't know. The funny thing to me is that there's people there in suits. Well, you have to. You have to wear a suit. You can't walk in there without... That's a rule. A rule is you have to go in with a suit. Who had the stilts?

Oh, that was after the first day. There's always one person that needs skills in the second day. Is he breaking someone's legs? But it's just, what fascinates me is that, like, some people like this. Like some people like being abused, basically, which is like pretty messed up.

Yes, it is. I think my theory is that it's guys who didn't grow up with a strong father figure, so they don't know what it looks like. And they just needed someone to have a backbone. And now they go to this extreme version. And it's like, if you look at the speeches, he literally speaks to universities. I don't know what universities hire him, but he's literally just like. Loose checking to bring Dan Pena into your university.

and he literally just berates them but i think it's oftentimes people who are yeah they think that's what it takes right it's like i need to just be more disciplined and be more hot like hardcore yeah and missing that hardcore man good god When you see an old, there's actually old clips of him in the 1980s where he has a seminar and he talks normally. So my theory is he's just done enough iterations to know what really...

What really changes people's lives? Fuck it. No, I think his testosterone really is at 1,500. Sam, this is what we talked about. This is the fuck it. He's at his fuck it. i feel like he thinks he's done what he could and he's like fuck it no i think that's the testosterone man like i swear probably bezos and zach did it too and it just like makes you different oh Everyone's doing that. Don't you even get Facebook ads these days? Like about testosterone?

yeah like it's like everywhere these days like it's like taking vitamin c or something vitamin t yeah just inject that's a little bit yeah i think there's also a massive cultural shifts for guys in their early 20s to take steroids like it's become so normalized where um body image um insecurities and mental health issues the men's are catching up to women's

where they're all think they have to be animals and they do turn into animals, but they become infertile, which is kind of backwards because you do it because you want to be more attracted to the opposite sex, but then you can't do anything with that. Yeah, exactly. So there's one more funny thing I want to show you. Like we already cracked you. So I think we already won. But I'm curious if this is your kind of humor because this is something that you shouldn't laugh at.

This is, have you heard of the Instagram page, kids getting hurt? No. Sorry, my throat is a little itchy. That's why I just made that noise. Jamie, can you pull that up? Yeah. There's one specific one. This is humor that you can't laugh at. I think you're a dad now too. This sounds...

This is what you got yourself into. And this is a whole page of parents just sending in videos. This here, one of the best categories of kids getting hurt is the glass mirror maze. You know where you go through the maze? Did not work on him. Yeah, nobody laughs. This is not funny. We're all very disciplined and focused. Great. We've passed the test. I want to know how you even found such a thing. Because he's a monster. Listen.

He's going to blame me because I found most of these, but the kids getting hurt was all Leon's idea. I just want to clarify that. Sam, as you can see, this is not your typical podcast. So we can understand if you want to go back into break after this and never get on another podcast again.

He's going to the podcast detox for a year after this again. At least hoping to smirk or smile. He's like, yeah, cool. I guess that was kind of funny-ish. Dan Pena made him laugh. What, the kids one or the... the previous one nope nope the joke that i just made but anyways never mind oh okay so none of this is none of this is funny to you well dan pena i find pretty funny but that's only because he's being serious and dudes are paying money

to go and experience this to me that's like stand-up comedy like that's fucking hilarious but to actually think that that's like some good business advice Maybe it is, but just to receive it in that form is just, that's hilarious to me. We were joking about that. Should Danpena have a community on school, do you think?

I don't know. He can do it where he wants. My friend said that basically the first... day he's just ripping into people and then like the next like three days he talks about mergers and acquisitions and how to like they learn some things about how to buy businesses and how to get money that's the only time but like the first two days is just him

ripping and making them into men imagine you sign up for it thinking you're going to learn about immersion acquisition and the first day he's just berating you and you're just like but Dan how do you buy a company yeah with his vagina with his vagina cream That's how it starts. M&A, masochism and abuse. Branding. Yeah, but I think, so it's called QLA, Quantum Leap Academy. And we should go. We should all go, Sam. Sam would go. It would be funny. Cool.

I think that's, that's, do we win the challenge? Do we, what do you say, Sam? Do we, did we make you laugh? Are you giving up a secret or?

Well, I mean, we're probably going to make in the next few weeks the biggest change we've made to the platform since we started the platform. I'm going to make a hypothesis. Rebrand. I'm going dark. Rename. You got to rename school into something else. What do you think, Imad? What do you think it's going to be? I'll be honest with you. I don't know. I'm just happy with the new updates he's doing. Great.

Are you still using Skull? Yeah, it's my favorite platform. Where's your community, Leon? Do you not care about your community? Yeah, I realized I hate these people. I hate them. I don't want anything to do with them. No, I realized starting a podcast, like anytime I'm starting something new, I get humbled. I'm like, wow, this takes way more effort than I thought. How do I keep...

making this mistake that I think I'm so great at what I do that I can just like, Oh, I already know this stuff. Um, I I'm having my ass handed to me every time I'm doing something that I'm like slightly shifting. Right. I think everyone has this experience to a certain degree. And, um,

doing a community was something new for me and then also starting a podcast. And so I was like, I need to choose one. And so I definitely want to have a community, but right now it's just about, okay, making this show great, making it better. distributing it better. And then from there, once the team is built and the machine is running, then launching a community of some sort or whatever else comes next, whatever else is on the priority list next. But yeah.

huge fan of school and what you guys are building. And, um, yeah, I would, I would bet any money I had on, on you if I had any money, which I don't. Um, but yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. And spending this time with us. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you for humoring us. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks for being patient and allowing us to be like this with you here. Cool. Good. Thank you.

See you later. I have a good one. Bye Sam. Great meeting you. We made it. We did. We made him laugh. I think he's not going to do a podcast for two years now. 100%. 100%. How do you think that went, Jamie? The face at the end of that was like in movies I've watched where an alcoholic takes a drink after 10 years. He's like, fuck, I did a podcast.

Why'd I do a podcast? This is why I don't do them. We brought it back to zero. How many days has it been without a podcast? It's always your podcast. It was at that last time. Now it's at this time. Yours is relapse drug of choice. I think you also didn't explain to him the podcast, which I think made it even funnier. No, you don't. You don't. Which made it even funnier. Throw him into the cold water. And he was like, wait. And it's crazy because he's very analytical.

So every time you'd make a joke, you'd really think about it. And I'm like, just be, just let it, let it happen. Let it, just let it happen. I'm like the rebrand, he took seriously. And I was like. No, no, no, no. This is the joking segment. Don't take it seriously, Sam. Don't take it seriously. But I knew that going in. And here's the thing. I think he knows that it's a joke, but he just like... So...

I've also heard from people that know him really well that you never know if he really likes you. And even if he really likes you, it oftentimes feels like he doesn't. That's wild. And so what I'm gathering is... He doesn't like us. He loved it. He loved it. no I think he had a fun time because you could see he genuinely had laughs especially when we got the damn Pena and like yeah so here's the thing all jokes aside I learned a ton from Sam especially around passion yeah especially around

What do you enjoy? What would be fun? Because like, here's what happened to me in the last few years. So I think a lot of people can relate to this. In my 20s, I was super obsessed with just optimizing everything, becoming successful. I didn't have any sugar. I would work as many hours as possible. And anytime I was socializing or I had fun, it came with a sense of guilt that like, I'm not making progress. I'm not achieving my goals. And so...

I ended up building a business that I hated, that I sold, made a lot of money. That was great. And I was like, man, I don't want to do this again. I want to find something that I really enjoy. And I went through this.

This process where you find your passion by asking friends and family for feedback, right? Just what do you think I'm really good at? What do you think is my unique power and, you know, things that I'm... that i'm really good at that other people struggle uh to do right and and and how do you see me just to get any kind of feedback and i realized

All my friends, they would tell me, yeah, you're like really disciplined and obsessed and intense and no BS. And my sister, the person who's known me my entire life, what she said was, You're really funny. You're really entertaining. And I'm like, what is this? What is the gap here? Because these people that only knew me for the past few years described me completely opposite to my sister who's known me my entire life. And then when I left when I was 18, you know, hasn't spent much.

time with me um so that kind of gave me this push like maybe i should start a youtube channel because i really enjoyed it it was really fun i never saw it as like a real thing but it's like entertaining it's fun i'm like maybe i could do that right and so i i did that But I ruined that passion for me. I did YouTube, but I ruined it for myself because I turned it into a job. Like this thing that I actually enjoyed from the beginning, it...

It became about like, how do I make this successful? How do I add this intensity that I've learned over the last few years to it? And it turned it into, yeah, into just the next thing where I'm like, I should do this because this works instead of like, what do I actually want to make? You know, this mindset that I've learned. And so, yeah, that's kind of like what I realized is like I brought this old mindset that I've learned in my 20s into my passion and ruined it.

I could have the most fun job in the world, I would still find a way to, yeah, to kind of ruin it, you know? And it's kind of sad. I think a lot of people go through that. And for me, it's just about like, how do I get back this joy that I had as a kid? Because I was known as the class clown that... that was joking around, that was having fun. And how do I not only achieve big goals that I set, but also do it in a way where I'm like, that was so fun. I did what I really wanted to do.

You see this actually with the most successful people in history, like Steve Jobs or Michael Jordan. They're known for loving what they do. And in theory, I loved YouTube. But the way I went about it was that I optimized things that would work rather than things that I actually enjoy this. Yeah. And like, this is kind of like the, this podcast is the...

This podcast is the product of this, this new approach where it's like, I know what I could do to make this successful, but I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I enjoy this. I know I could have guests on that I know bring views. I know I could package them a certain way. I know I could do in-person interviews and it would do better. But then when that's successful, I have to keep doing that.

And then in the next three to five years, I'm going to be like, I don't want to do this anymore. Start from scratch again. So it's like choosing what's more fun, what's more energizing over results. Well, he even said you're rigid. He's like, oh, it's interesting you're not so rigid anymore. And it's interesting because I feel like this, in my opinion, is the most chill you've been. Doing this podcast where now, I feel like, even from the first...

episodes to now dude you've definitely shifted because i've also been with you so it's like i've seen like there's more humor there's more like just letting go and just like okay whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen i can just i can full testament see it yeah from the outside looking in

And it's difficult because one thing, I'm not used to it and I'm unlearning a lot of things, but also this type of podcast doesn't exist yet. There's all sorts of podcasts that are in self-improvement in that specific niche.

that are all about just we're interviewing experts and that's it but i don't want to do that i could do that i know i'd be successful at it i've already started a new channel like the new channel i started the fourth episode got five million views 100 000 subscribers almost or 90 000 i should say And I'm like, no, I don't want that. Scratch the whole thing, start over again. Because, yeah, I know I wouldn't love this long term. And it's difficult, especially because results are slower that way.

But it's like the slow growth that's going to sustain itself over the long term. 100%. And... Also, when you get comments on my old channel, I put out a video again on the Leon Hendricks channel. I saw, dude. A lot of people are very positive, right? But when I was starting to do the podcast and stuff like that, people were like, oh my God, this is a new low. Like even on the recent video.

oh like it's so so sad to see so sad he's hit a new low it's like i'm i'm getting all on the outside in terms of results nowhere near the views things are not moving it seems like negative comments but like what's inside me is just like i want to do this yeah and it's like i think you have to go through a few years like a year or two of like this just like being humbled and being tested like do you really want this do you really want this um

Yeah, and that's what I'm doing right now. But I've never felt so aligned with what I'm doing right now that I've ever have before. I'm having so much fun with it. And I think this is going to be my most successful project yet. No, I mean... yeah dude it looks like you're having a lot more fun it looks like and everything's falling into place yeah also i mean you have me with you so everything i help touch turns to gold

So you're welcome. That's really, that's really the main part about all of this. Yeah, I feel so much better now. Yeah, cool. Just want to make it clear. Yeah. I didn't have to say that much in this whole process. I just had to say one thing and that just solidified it. Great. So you're welcome. And Leon, I'm sorry that my comments on your...

youtube video hurt your feelings it's my bad we have another one we have another comedian wow you guys but in all seriousness like when you were making videos on that channel though like at that time like that was your like your customer base your audience and you like obviously if 90 of them hated something you put out maybe you wouldn't do it again or you'd change it up so now this is obviously going to be for a different kind of audience but like

how do you how do you connect that because there's kind of that old thing of like don't ever read the comments but then there's also take all customer feedback very seriously the customer's always right so like how are you managing

that when you hear your old audience say things like that. I love that question. Also, I've noticed whenever somebody says, I love that question, it's not because they love the question, it's because they love the answer they're about to give. So I have a good answer for this.

I don't believe that comments under like a YouTube video from my old channel is actually my audience best feedback. Because there's only a very specific subset of people that actually comment on YouTube videos. I've never met someone in real life. that has an anonymous youtube account that consistently comments under things and i've also found that the most loyal viewers and listeners don't comment

They just quietly lurk. They're consuming it. And the best feedback I've gotten always is just talking to people that have listened to it. Just like, let's hop on a call. And I've done this multiple times. And I ask friends and I ask people who listen to it. You get such different feedback. Like if you look at some of my videos, I get torn to shreds in some of the videos and people are like, oh, this is so terrible. And it's like, yeah, this person has only watched this one video of mine.

They don't actually know who I am, but they just popped in for this one video, commented this thing, left, never thought about me again. Meanwhile, the people that watch consistently, they don't comment. And when I talk to them, they're... surprised that i even got a comment like that it's just like who said that that's that's what the you know yeah um so yeah i think there's like different quality of feedback you can get and the best quality feedback is

people who watch consistently and listen consistently and then who are also the type of person that you want to reach because you might talk to someone you're like you're not actually the target audience that I want to reach and if you want me to talk about how to stop procrastinating and i'm like there's other things that you should watch like if you're procrastinating like this is like step number one i don't know get to work i don't know how to help you

I don't know. So yeah, I think if I have to summarize the purpose of this podcast and this project right now, like Sam talked about helping a billion people. find community and initially it was just like hey let's build a cool platform here i think the most common regret isn't that people don't achieve their goals i think it's that they did but they didn't enjoy the journey

I think that's way more common that somebody looks back and like, oh, I've achieved all the things and I wish I would have spent more time with people I love and I made more memories. That's powerful. And I just want to be... one of the catalysts with this podcast to achieve your highest goals while having the most fun. Like how can we learn and share and achieve things and also have fun and be goofy and make memories?

chris lee said success without fulfillment is the biggest failure tony robbins his name is tony robbins you mispronounced it a little bit i thought chris lee said that i don't know chris lee is but tony robbins says that all the time he's the guy for the leadership thing he was one running our thing

Gotcha. So he took it from him. Good to know. Great. Yeah, it is. It is a hundred percent. One of the fun things that I think would be cool for this podcast, by the way, curious to hear your thoughts on it. And also you guys in the comments. or DM me on Instagram is having a bucket list for this podcast. That would be sick. Like here's some fun things. Like one of the things I have always dreamed of is getting someone from the driven podcast audience or the community.

married two people that are listening to the podcast they're looking you know like almost like having like a bachelor or bachelorette series once our audience is big enough i actually want to have feel okay this is our best bachelor right here this is our best applications Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, that would be sick. And we can collaborate with a different podcast and be like, who's the best one in your audience? We got Brian here. That's a great idea.

We'll get the misses from the Call Her Daddy podcast and we'll present them. I don't know if that's a bad audience for our kind of audience. It depends on what our bachelor is like. does he what kind of girl is he you know is he watching nelk or is he watching us that's a real question yes nelk should team up with the call yeah yeah that'd be that's perfect call me daddy and nelk or we have like different tiers right we have like

you know, like the, the Bible girls or we have the, and then we have the like, let's become a dating podcast. It's just a season, but I think it'd be fun. I think it'd be hilarious. I think one podcast we should do underwater. Don't know how, but we'll just do it. Jesus. I don't feel about that, but you know, maybe sure. The first podcast in the world underwater. That'd be pretty shit. We'll fly out. That'll be little. We'll just fly out somewhere and we'll just shoot. That'd be pretty sick.

Another thing I wrote down, getting a pedicure with David Goggins. Hilarious. Doing a podcast like that. Hilarious. His toes are probably nasty, dude. That's why. It'll be a long podcast. It'll be a Joe Rogan twice over. It's like this, these, these. It's three hours per feet. Per foot. I love it. And I think we should actually launch one of our idiotic trillion dollar business ideas.

Have a Kickstarter. That's going to be on the bucket list. There's a trillion dollar business idea that actually launched. Can that be the next week that we just talk about the bucket list? Like we actually make it this week and we're like, this is the new bucket list for all our viewers.

We could. Yeah. And I also want to hear your submissions. What do you think would be a great bucket list items for a podcast that is all about achieving trillion dollar business ideas and having fun along the way? Cool. Thanks for listening. See you in the next episode. Love y'all. Peace.