89. Gold vs. Bitcoin – Which Safe Haven Asset Wins?

So Jay, This is the way a good host works. They write an intro for things and then they actually practice it. What they're going to say and go through it a few times. So if someone goes in and deletes full segments of what they were practicing, it's going to make it worse because they're going to remember what they practiced. And then I'm going to be like, I had something written here and someone just deleted it.

I'm trying to avoid what you did last week where basically you just did my entire segment for me before I could say anything. Wait, so you're saying in 20 seconds, I'm able to do what you take 12 minutes to do? Maybe you should take some cues from me then. And cut what you say down a little bit and be a little bit more succinct. Welcome to Drunk Real Estate. Grab a drink. I enjoy the show. Hey there. Welcome to episode 89 of Drunk Real Estate. I am Kyle Wilson, Ashley Wilson's husband.

And tonight we have a very special show with a very special guest. AJ is off wheeling and dealing. I forget what he was doing, but we we were able to get a guest host for this episode that I am particularly very excited about. Fun little fact about 16 or 17 years ago, I was playing pro hockey and I decided that I want to take my money, invest it in real estate. And back then, podcasts weren't nearly as exciting or popular as they are now.

Now, I know this might be unbelievable to some of our younger listeners, but actually, radio was more popular than podcasts at one point. So I stumbled across this show called The Real Estate Guys. And I loved it. Listen to it every week. And I think interesting topics that weren't just like, you know, your cookie cutter topics with typical interviews. They had this monthly segment Ask the Guys. It was always the best. It was awesome.

And, since then, real estate guys, they're more than a radio show. They're kind of this whole full blown education company helping investors in all aspects. And we're so lucky to have one of the guys with us. Robert Helms, how's it going? Robert? Hey, great to have you, be on the show and have a chance to talk to you guys. I love what you do, and I'm thrilled to be invited. I love the radio voice, too. Like we're just shooting this shit before this. And you, just a little monotone, you get.

You get in your element and you're like, yeah, that's it as well. And it's, well, it's awesome to have you. I'm sure you heard it was called Drunk Real Estate. Did you bring a drink to drink? Drink with us? I would be remiss if I had not brought an IPA. I'm a beer guy. This is a hard one to find. It's called Head Full of Dynamite from Fremont Brewing in Seattle, Washington. And my good buddy Randy Hobbs just brought it to me. As we were getting ready to see the Eagles play the other night.

So I'm going to enjoy a hazy IPA. And it's a big one because I hear this is a long show. I've heard Robert's one of the the cheapest guys to get, information out of, because you just got to find him at a bar and buy him a beer and and that's all it really takes. Pretty much. So, so welcome all. Do the same with you, Kyle. We just don't get good information. That's that's true. You need to buy me 2 or 3, because in that. Otherwise, I'm a little grumpy. Mauricio. What's up buddy?

Dude, I'm excited. I'm. I'm pumped to have, You know, Robert is one of my early, early mentors. I've known Robert for 20 years now. And, you know, when when you hear my story of leaving the firm and going to work in house, Robert was the first guy to give me a job out of, out of the law firm. So, a lot of great memories with Robert. Maybe. Most importantly, Robert is responsible for making introductions that led me to meeting my wife, Heidi.

Oh, I think it has really changed the trajectory of my life and the very few people of that directory. So, Robert, super pumped that you're here. Looking forward to it. I, I'm switching it up a little bit because as you guys know, we're in a little bit of a fitness challenge. And so I've kind of stepped away from wine, especially Costco wine. And I'm splurging a little with the McCallum's today.

I'm doing a little McCallum's, you know, let's just see how high the number goes over the next few months. It will probably start at 12, go to 18, and then maybe when I win the bet, I'll we'll bust out some McCallum 25 or something. In Vegas. I mean, I say I'll have that drink with you. Awesome. How's it going, Jack? I'm doing well. I'm really excited about this show, so I didn't know Robert. I knew of Robert forever, but I didn't get to meet him until.

I think it was about a year and a half ago, and I took his. He has a sales training class. The real estate guys have a sales training class, and I took it. And if they can help me become a better sales guy, you know, it's a good class. So, I have to thank you. I don't think I thanked you after that class, Robert, but thank you for that. And then we got to hang out last year at, at, limitless. Thank you. That's where we covered. We went to the same college. Yeah. That's great. That's right.

So we always went to college. I went. I. Went. I sure hope you did. Oh, you guys visited a college back in the day? I got. Well, it was a pub near a college. Exactly, exactly. We went to college between. Between the bars. What do you drink? And Jack? I'm double fisting tonight, so because of the weight loss challenge, I'm trying to get in at least 3 or 4 cups of of green tea a day. Good for the, the calorie burning. Keep them tabagisme up.

And then, of course, go kind of go with a little bit of wine. So I picked, a French, la petite lait Papeete by H.J. Fabbri, a malbec. Sure. I've no idea what it is. It was in my wine fridge, so I figured, let's go French tonight. You got that? Well, you you got that from Costco, I assume I did not, or you got it from somebody that you have no idea who gave it to you or or not or.

And you better you better stock up on those, because the price of wine is going to like, double or triple or quadruple over the next year. I was literally about to say I picked the French one because I know, we're threatening them with tariffs. These could go up in price pretty soon. So, yeah, California wine should be fine, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to enjoy the French wine while I can. Actually. Fun fact, a guy I think, I don't know if you know Marie from Josh.

He, he owns a winery and a vineyard in new Jersey, and they actually have a license to, to do champagne. That's Josh Allen from Renault. Josh Macallan? Yep. Right. He's the only one in the U.S who can who can do champagne. So if all of a sudden they're putting 200% tariffs on, French champagne, Josh is just going to be laughing all the way to the bank. That's going to be check. Out check out Renault Rhino Winery, just outside of Atlantic City, new Jersey.

The last place you would expect them to be making champagne just outside of Atlantic City. And why is Josh not sponsoring the show? I'm not quite. We'll get. Him. We'll get him on this. But actually, because they'll be good timing to get him on this podcast, say, like, how much are you going to make in the champagne deal? I, I should have invested more in his. Yeah. Do you need any investors, any more investors? All right. Cool. We're ready to get into this. Gentlemen, what are you drinking?

Oh, that's I forgot. Yeah. Thanks, Jay. You always remember. You're not drinking, that you're not drinking that tasteless, colorless. Oh, I knew you were going to give me shit on that. So. And I thought it was a special episode, so I bought out a decent bottle of. I'm going with the Angel's Envy. Oh, nice. The bourbon. It's a special one, too. It's it's I got it. I got as a gift. It's all engraved and everything. Barrel select one. So it's a special one. So there we go. We're all.

We're all doing our duty tonight. Ashley. Ashley, actually let you splurge on that one? Well. She's actually nice. That was a gift. That's, You know, I'm still holding out. I'm trying to get the Blanton's, but I can't find it for for cheap here. And I refuse to spend $150 on a bottle of Blanton's. So, one of these days, I'm going to come and I'm going to be all excited. I got got my Blanton's for under 100 bucks. Anyway, let's get into this. It's that time of month again. So you guessed it.

We're due for another economic update. Stock market's in freefall. You'd think with that, all the data would be calling for a recession. But February actually saw a bit of a bounce back from the scary numbers in January. Remember our last episode in January talking about recession calls? We had all these doom and gloom. With that being said, consumer sentiment is hitting new lows and job numbers are concerning.

So, Jay, are we still on track for this April recession that you've basically locked in for us, or can we kick that can down the road a little bit? Well, let's be clear. I called an April recession two days before the stock market started to drop. So I'm not going to. Get a J. This is the third episode that you've said that. Hey, you brought it up. I'm just reminding. You are you backtracking from this prediction that, the Friday, the last Friday, it. Was right. April 4th. Oh. Right before.

That's right. Yeah. Is that are you backtracking from that or now? Nope. I think that'll be a pretty bad day in the market. And I think April could be a pretty bad month. But let's talk about it. And, Kyle, I was hoping to bury the lead a little bit, but you, you kind of. You kind of cut it off. So let me start with the day before. Before you start, though. I mean, Kyle, do you have a timer? Because, you know, I'm a little concerned on this episode. We do have a lot to cover here.

I'm not I'm. Not. A. Ted talk commentator. So let me start with the fact that I don't want to conflate the stock market with the economy. I know a lot of people think the stock market's dropping, therefore we must be heading into a recession or vice versa. The two are I'm not going to say they're unrelated. But just because we have a couple of weeks of a market correction doesn't necessarily mean we're in a recession or even we're heading towards a recession.

You can have a couple of bad weeks in the stock market without it, meaning that there are major issues in the economy. That said, I think we may be heading into a recession, but for reasons completely separate from the fact that the stock market happens to be dropping right now. And so we have it's March, we got a bunch of the February market data, economic data that came in. Inflation was down after a spike in January. So that was good. Jobs numbers are about the same.

A lot of people are concerned that with all the layoffs in the federal government, that we're going to see a spike in jobless claims and a spike in unemployment. Haven't seen it yet, not say it's not going to happen. It probably will, but we haven't seen it yet. We gotta we got to wait a couple months for the job revisions. Then we'll freak out. Yeah, and we'll see them, retail sales numbers. They rallied back.

We had a really bad January where we dropped almost a percentage point in January on retail sales. So we were up a little bit on retail sales in February, so that was good. So a lot of mixed data, not great data, but not horrible data. So there's a lot of reason to believe that that things are actually not so bad.

But there are some reasons to think that the March numbers and which come out in April and then the following months may not be as rosy as we saw in February, which again, February is pretty average. So there are a couple of reasons. Number one, let's start with with consumer and business and investor sentiment. There are a lot of organizations out there that measure confidence. They measure the confidence of you and me.

They measure confidence of small business owners, of investors, big business owners, analysts, all of all sentiment and confidence across the board. And what we've seen is that these confidence numbers seem to be heading down the toilet. And so why does this matter? Well, we've talked about this before. Confidence and sentiment is a leading indicator. So when business owners or investors or regular people start to lose faith in the economy, they start to spend differently.

They start to invest differently. And those spending and investing changes actually lead to the economy changing. And so we get the snowball effect of we act differently, so the economy acts differently, which causes us to act differently even more, which causes the economy to act differently even more. So here's a little bit of the sentiment data that we're seeing out there. Consumer sentiment. So regular people, you and me, how are we feeling about the economy?

University of Michigan does a monthly consumer sentiment survey down 11% in February, down 22% since December. This isn't isolated. It's not just Democrats who are mad that Trump was elected. It's not just poor people or rich people. It's actually across all age groups, all political affiliations, all wealth spectrum, education, geographic location. Yeah. So here's the here's the consumer sentiment numbers for March. So so pretty bad.

J j do they isolate the specific reason is there like the top three reasons. Why is it is it the economy? Is it the terrorists. Is it the Trump's in office. Like is there a reason for this? There is. And for this for this if I recall, it's inflation. And in fact that's going to be a common theme throughout a lot of these sentiment and confidence numbers. And I'm getting ready to throw out a lot of concern about inflation.

Concern about inflation is being generated 1st January numbers were pretty high. December numbers were a little bit high. So we saw this kind of this this ramp that people were concerned about. Now keep in mind February numbers were pretty good. But a lot of the survey data was collected before February numbers came out. So hopefully, some of this will be mitigated in March when when people see the February numbers weren't so bad with inflation, maybe people will be a little bit less concerned.

But that was that was the big thing for for the consumer sentiment number, from University of Michigan. On the business side of things, we have population. And as the eggs as the eggs discussion need to be included here, the price of eggs going up. So price of eggs are dropping, the price of eggs are dropping. Yeah. Down about everyone's everyone's putting chicken coops in their backyard. So we're all set now. So the funny thing is price of eggs are dropping. A lot of it is on the demand side.

So people are eating a lot fewer eggs. But there's also, supply, supply is starting to open up a little bit. So hey Jay, those things are not dis related. When you say that when egg prices are up, people's behavior is the environment to buy less eggs. It's the same thing as sentiment, right? The opposite of the wealth effect. When we're feeding wealthy, well, we're acting wealthy. When we're feeling nervous, we're acting nervous. Exactly, exactly.

And that's why sentiment is, is generally a leading indicator and is often a good indication of where the economy's heading. Let's talk about business owners. Let me, let me just like let's not move on on that yet. Yeah. Because I, I'm the consumer. We're just talking about consumer sentiment. Right. We're not talking about like expert sentiment. Sentiment or like I guess I don't know if you guys watch the news at all.

I try and watch less and less now, but right now the news is like the most negative it's ever been, like, it's all all they're saying on the news is basically talking about tariffs are having this effect. And inflation's doing this effect. And it basically all news is negative. So is when you say consumer like you know tail wagging the dog kind of thing.

Like could this just be one of those things where since so much has happened in such a little amount of time, is this just people just being so uncertain that they're like, oh, like, I'm a little nervous. I don't know what's going to happen. And therefore, like, the sentiment drops. Yeah, 100%. And in fact, we do measure uncertainty in several of these, in several of these surveys. And uncertainty is one of those things that we've seen through the roof. And I'll talk about that.

And one of the surveys coming up, specifically, I just looked while Kyle was talking. I just looked at the, consumer sentiment like what was driving it? Inflation is driving it. The year ahead. Inflation expectations for consumers from the University of Michigan, survey was went from 4.3% last month. So meaning people thought the inflation rate over the next year is going to be about 4.3% last month to 4.9% this month, which is a significant increase.

Nowhere near that 9% that we saw a couple years ago. But anytime you're in the fours near 5% to or not there, but concerns about us being in the fours near 5%, that's a pretty big inflation rate in the consumers really think we're near 5% on inflation and we're heading in that direction. It's going to change the way they spend money. And it's already we've been talking about this for a while.

But it's just it's just tough on especially on the middle class right where they're already having a hard time keeping up. And, you know, any little price change, I mean, even I'm glad the edge is going down, but anything in the supermarket goes up 10% or 5% that makes a huge difference on the margins for most, for most Americans. And I think it's just I think it's almost like a cumulative effect where it's been going on for so long.

It's like at some point, you know, they're just getting more and more concerned, or maybe they're dipping into their savings, maybe their savings are evaporating, or they're just seeing the writing on the wall. But this is a concern that I've been talking about for for almost years now, because there just isn't there isn't that third spouse. You know, we talked about it before.

Where in you know, back in the 50s and 60s when inflation happened, the second spouse had to jump into the workforce to to make ends meet. There isn't a third spouse around. So now if two spouses are working and can't cover the daily expenses, where is the money going to come from? Maybe those lazy millennials who are living in the basement of these, baby boomers. Maybe they'll start pitching in a little bit.

So we're talking about people's concerns about inflation, but we actually have some other data that indicates inflation is a real thing. It's happening. And there's reason to be concerned. So we have this thing called the NFIB Small Business Optimism Index where this organization NFIB does surveys of small business owners and basically ask them what's your sentiment like these days. And the common answer is uncertainty. Literally. That is one of the selections.

And people a lot of these small business owners are feeling uncertainty. But one of the things the survey questions is, are you raising your prices or have you raised your prices? In the last month, 32% of respondents to the survey, and again, these are small business owners said they raised their prices in the last month. That's the highest percentage percentage we've seen since April of 2021. So, at least in the small business side of things, a lot of owners are raising prices.

Is it tariff related? It very well may be, even if you don't see tariffs in place, if you have an expectation of tariffs, if you're buying inventory or you're buying inventory, you're placing orders for for inventory two months, six months down the road, like a lot of business owners do. Imagine you're a lumber company. And you have to place orders two, four, six months down the road.

Well, the threat of tariffs is going to impact lumber futures, and you're going to end up paying more today for lumber, even if tariffs haven't been implemented. And so a lot of small business owners are in the same boat. Even before tariffs were implemented a couple weeks ago. They may have been raising prices in anticipation. And actually in that same survey, I noticed to the the they ask, what's the expectations for the economy to improve. And that dropped.

And it's down to like 37% of respondents are thinking that the economy. Is actually folks. I mean, if anybody's paying attention, I mean, we talked about it, I think last week, the, the Atlanta Fed, you know, who are notorious for being overly confident on the front end. But I just pulled up the graph before we came on. And, you know, they started at about a 4% GDP growth for the quarter. And then it plummeted all the way down to just below 2% or two point something.

And it has bounced back a little bit. So it's I think now at 1.9%. But the Atlanta Fed has. A negative one point. Eight. Yeah. Now because it went from negative two and a half or whatever 2.9. Now it's only 1.9. But still the Atlanta, the fed and the Atlanta Fed themselves are expecting a contraction in the economy, which is, you know, half of a recession. And keep in mind, this isn't what the Atlanta Fed is expecting.

The way the GDP now meter works is they actually take data as it's released and they plug it into the model. So every time there's new data released. So today, or yesterday we got some import and export pricing from last month, that indicated that import and export prices went up. There were some inflation and import and export prices. That's actually on the on the export side. That's good for GDP. On the import side, it's bad for GDP. But the exports outweighed the imports.

So that's good for GDP. You plug that into their model and you see that the GDP expectation for Q1 actually goes up. And so you can watch that model not on a daily basis. But but they they list the days that they update it. But it's a couple times a week that they take data. That's being released. And this is all public data that you and I can see as well. They stick it into their model and you can see in real time as that GDP meter goes up and down and so will it end the quarter over zero.

Yeah. That's what I was going to say. You could you can watch it go up and down. And it's always up and down. So much like a. Yeah. But it's an exercise usually. Down a trend of that thing is always in the wrong direction. You never see the line of fed start at some number and then end up double by the end of the quarter. It's always for some reason, I don't know why, but always seems to overstate the the actual final numbers. So well.

Keep in mind again, it's using real public data that gets released. The quarter ended March 30th. The last piece of data that we get for March comes on April 30th. So on April 30th, we'll have the last piece of data for March, which will be the last piece of data for the quarter that'll get stuck it, but plugged into the model. And the model will say, this is what GDP is. And every day between January 1st and April 30th, they're getting more and more data and they're building up that model.

So in theory, whether the model is going up or down, it's more accurate the further you get into the quarter and up to a month after the quarter end, because that's when the last piece of data comes in. So the fact that we are now six weeks from the last piece of data coming in, and we're two and a half months into the quarter, that means the model's probably a little bit more accurate than it would have been a month ago, or two months ago.

So I'm not saying we're going to end up in a contraction this quarter, but I'd say there's a very real chance based on what we're seeing right now. Yeah, I think if I was a betting man and I'm not maybe in Vegas and we're there in a few months, but I would say that you're going to see a contraction in this in this quarter. Actually. You can well, I guess we can as Americans. But if, I don't know if how much time you guys spend on Poly Market.

But one of the Polly market things you could bet on is the likelihood of a recession in 2025. And, it's fun to actually know that we went from a month ago, it was about 20%, and now it's about 40. So it's doubled just in the last month, starting actually February 20th, February 28th, it was 22%. And currently in March 17th it's. But can I can I bet on whether Q1 will be negative on a GDP. And that's what I want to bet on. Oh, you might actually I. You're not going to get good odds.

So so here's I want to bring up a chart. So this one's interesting Kyle, you mentioned earlier like, experts weighing in on on sentiment. Bank of America does this, fund manager survey, every few weeks, which is basically they they talk to analysts, fund managers, investors like institutional investors, the smart people, and ask them what's going on, not just ask them what's going on, but seeing what they're doing. And this was actually pretty crazy. I saw this this was just released today.

But apparently over the last couple weeks, what we've seen is that, fund managers in the US have pulled out 40% of, their positions on long equities in the US market. Basically, they they've taken out about 40% of, of the money they have in the stock market betting on companies going up. We've never seen a number anywhere near that in a month in this country. So basically half the money that fund managers have in the market right now have come out over the last couple of weeks.

Just an absolutely astounding number. So so go back to the first thing you said and then then explain to people. And when I say people, me explain to me why you're disconnecting the stock market, going down with all this other stuff that you've just been talking about, because to me, it sounds like if somebody is concerned, if somebody is fearful and somebody wants to put money away, put somewhere else, wouldn't you just buy?

You would just think they'd be pulling money from the stock market, putting it into something safer, putting it into gold or foreign equities or non-U.S. dollar denominated assets? I'm just being careful not to say that just because there's a correlation, that there's causation. Just because the market's going down doesn't mean that's going down because a recession is coming. We've seen market drop. But which one leads the other. Right. Because it's happened both ways.

They kind of generally go the same way. But you don't know which one's going to be the the the one that goes first. Yeah. And the point that the economy is different from the stock market, it's a really good point. And too many people just lump it all in together. Even when it comes to sentiment. What's the sentiment about. Well in general how the market's doing. Well what's the market. Is that the stock market or is that the public markets? Is there more to it?

And certainly sentiment has to do with how people feel in their lives and not just in investing. You know, the the fact that you'd never have to invest in the stock market. It is completely optional. No one ever has to buy a share of stock or a barrel of oil or an ounce of gold, but you can't sit out the real estate market financially. You don't have to own property, but you're going to have to interact financially. So it separates real estate, which I hope we get to at some point.

But, this is great stuff. I think it's a really excellent point. You cannot say that the stock market is the economy, although there is certainly in step, it's not correlated. Or and if it is correlated, it's it's not necessarily in real time. 1st May lead or lag the other. And so and I don't know if you're going to go there, but, you know, pulling it sort of to that real estate angle is like one of the biggest KPIs on or metrics for real estate is, is the mortgage rate interest rates.

How is this all affecting that number? Like, you know, if you're a real estate investor, mortgage rates are critical. Does this affect that number at all? I mean, that ten year Treasury has been stubborn. Like we we we obviously want to see that come down because that's the number one. It's coming down. And it has been you're right. It has been coming down. But then like you're you're getting excited that it's going to keep coming down. And then you know one day the stock market's down.

You go to look at the ten year. And it's back up and you're like oh what's going on. That's that's the good example like I do I do think that a lot of the stuff is related.

I mean though I would argue that the reason that I mean, for a fact, the reason the interest rate's going down is because there's more demand for those treasuries, which generally means people are fearful, people are leaving the stock market, they're leaving other assets and going into safety, which for them is treasuries, which is driving up the price of treasuries, which is which is reducing the interest rate.

So, you know that the more fear there is and the more that goes on, the ten year is going to drop. And that's pretty tightly correlated with the mortgage rate. Right. But daily we're not seeing I guess that's that's the thing is like I get disappointed because I watch it every day and I watch the stock market and I see the stock market do one thing and I go to I rush over to the ten, ten year and be like, oh, is it? And then it didn't. So it's, it's been a. Strange, though.

I mean, I mean, you're ten years gone from from 4.8, you know, in the middle of January to 4.2. That's like a huge move. Oh for sure. But you know, we want to see some. We talked about it before. I think even the, the the fed it like if when they're coming to when they have to refinance all of this debt, they would like to see a little bit, a little bit smaller, smaller yield on that as well. So I mean, a sub four, I feel like that for like it's such a mental game. Right.

And I feel like a sub for ten year would just be everybody that would be like, you know, green light. Let's go. And the faucets turn on, and it just, it always seems like we're heading back down towards that. And then something happens and we head back to four and a quarter and and I. And I feel like there's this like which is true. Like our good buddy, you know, George Gavin always talks about there's like, you know, there's no one.

Everybody looks at as like as I buy a bipolar or two thing, but there's like a thousand things going one direction, a thousand things going the other direction. And this is one of them. It's like on the one hand we're talking about fear and potential recession, which you would think, you know, everybody's going to be, you know, crashing towards, you know, safe assets, gold, which you're going to talk about in a second. Yeah. You know, the Treasury, which is going to drive down the rates.

But on the other hand, you have, you know, inflationary concerns. So right. So when you have inflation people are like, well, why should I be in treasuries when I if, if I believe inflation is coming down, I should be in more aggressive assets. And so there seems to be this like pull and tug on. Are we expecting the, you know, the interest rates go up or down.

Well it depends on you know on the one hand you know, if inflation is coming then you would expect, you know, the people that the interest rate to go up. And if you're expecting a recession you would expect it to go down. So it's like it's it's a really interesting, you know, pull and tug that's going on right now. Yeah. The other thing to keep in mind is, I mean, if you look at stocks and bonds in a vacuum, yeah, there's there's definitely some correlations. People move money out of equities.

They moved into bonds where they moved out of bonds into equities. And that creates some some pretty consistent and predictable price movements. On one side or the other. When you see one side or the other start to move. So if stocks start to go down, you can expect that people are moving into bonds, which is going to push bond yields down. The problem is that those two things don't live in a vacuum.

And we have some things going on in the world right now that are impacting both equities and bonds in ways that are breaking this. This simple model. We have currency issues. We have the US dollar we talked about this last week. But but dollar strength is dropping. And we're seeing a lot of, currency pairs that are out of whack. So we see certain currencies that are strengthening against the dollar more than we should expect. We have a lot of geopolitical issues. We have things with oil.

I mean, oil isn't flowing nicely around the world. And when oil doesn't flow, easily around the world, we don't see dollars in the petrodollar. We don't see dollars flow easily around the world. And so there are other things that are impacting the bond market. So you can no longer just say people are moving money out of stocks into bonds or vice versa. It's a lot more complicated of a model. And it feels like the two are fairly decoupled these days.

Well, one thing people seem to be moving into is gold, which just hit an all time high over 3000, and it's kind of touched that a few times, but then it's now it just blew past it. Now it's holding above 3000. And so for all those people who said that crypto would take this, this place of gold as the economic and currency hedge, and, you know, gold is no longer the gold standard that it used to be. It sure seems like gold is reasserting itself as a major player in portfolio woes right now.

Well, I'm glad you brought that up this week because the 3000 numbers are really critical number. And it is an all time high, at least in U.S. dollars. And so the thing to think about when it comes to gold and silver is twofold. One is what does it predict or show us. Often gold and silver are that predictive mechanism because of the flee to safety and has been for a long, long time.

But I think it's really interesting point that there were a lot of folks who thought, well, you know, gold is unnecessary now that we have cryptocurrency and, you know, I'm a fan of both, that's for sure. But they kind of play different roles. Look at how volatile Bitcoin has been in the last six weeks. Right. The swing's been more than $25,000. Gold has steadily gone up. Having said that, that's not necessarily a good thing because gold actually never changes its value.

It only changes its price. An ounce of gold is worth an ounce of gold, but it's worth $3,000 because the dollar is worth less than it was. And that's part of the the other side of the equation, which is what do we do as investors? Because personally, I don't think gold and silver are investments. I'm a big lover of the precious metals, but not because their investments were completely different purpose. But they've been a pretty good investment.

Okay. Like, as much as I've always said the same thing and honestly, the reason I have a bunch of gold right now was back in 2020. And whenever the the Russia-Ukraine thing was happening, a I believe the price of gold was right around 2000. And if that was expensive, kind of because it does run up.

And at the same time, you know, I'm not going to say like I'm a prepper or anything, but I thought it would be nice to have some physical gold and silver when there was a, you know, the risk of World War Three happening had, you know, gone up five by five x. And so I had a bunch and I never, I never sold it. I never, you know, I guess the wars never ended. But since then that was 2000. Now it's now it's 3000. So in the last four years or so, it's gone up by 50%.

And you could say the, you know, the value doesn't go up. And I heard an interesting person, they comment by a person about last year about how the stock market went up 27%. But then the counterpoint to that was, well, gold went up 24. So did the stock market actually go up, or is this just, you know, fueled by all this debt and really the stock market kind of just stayed the same in relation to gold. So, as much as. We were saying. It's it was not a good investment, it, it has been, you know.

That's such a great point, though, because the example that I love the that I think I think our buddy George always talks about it too. But you know, like, do you know, like if I don't know what it's been lately, but at some point in the last couple of years, like the best performing stock market, like in the entire world was the Venezuelan stock market, because inflation in Venezuela was like 1,000% a day. It was off the charts. So yeah, relative to the Venezuelan, I think it's the peso.

Yes. The stock market in nominal terms is going through the roof. But in real terms, nobody, you know, nobody thought that stock market was going up. And in fact, if you price the stock market in dollars or if you talked, if you did it in gold or in bushels of wheat or whatever, the stock market wasn't going on. So that's a great point.

You got to be super careful when you see something going up to Robert's point is the actual asset going up or the commodity going up, or the dollar thing or going up? Or is the is it the dollar or the other side of the equation going down? Because again, it's always two sides, the equation. We always think the dollar equals something. And and so if something's going up that means the thing's going up. But it also can mean that the dollar itself is going down.

I think that's exactly what's going on. And there's like gold and silver do go up and down. But the long term trend is that as we see the dollar lose purchasing price value, then the metals go up and gold and silver are very different metals. Right. Silver is a lot more industrial. Gold is more money. But they both have places in a portfolio. And I think that's a practical point, even though I don't consider them an investment because they don't pay any kind of dividends.

There's no tax deduction really for the metals, right? Those kinds of traditional things that we think of as an investment, they do maintain value. And that's the critical part. So this is a 2021 peace dollar. So the peace dollar was very popular in the 20s and 30s. And they did this with that dove on the back. In 2021. At the time I bought this, it was I think silver might have been 20 ish, maybe 18. So here's the premise. When I bought this, I turned those dollars, I froze those dollars.

And they those dollars kept their value. The paper dollars in my wallet continued to erode in value because now eggs and Starbucks and gasoline cost more. But today, this is the same value. I preserved that $16 back then, or $18 back then. It's $34 today. So the metal hasn't changed, but the dollar value has. And that's the way I think about gold. Gold is a gift I give myself in ten years from now.

If I buy it now and I have reasons to buy it, the biggest reason is it is non correlated, but also it doesn't have any counterparty risk. Counterparty risk is in everything. It's in real estate. It's in mortgages. It's in the stock market big time. It's in the bond market. But an ounce of gold in your hand or silver in your hand has no counterparty risk. It doesn't mean it doesn't have risk. You could lose it.

You could steal it from me, as Marissa has tried to a few times, but it doesn't really have another counterparty. And so there's a place to put it in your in your portfolio. And I think prudent investors who have done that are pretty happy to have. I guess the only risk would be though to me is that there's no usable value in it. I guess the thing I the reason I have some silver too, along with the gold, is silver. Like it's still like it's used in a lot of, in a lot of industries still.

And it's, it's actually getting more usable and a lot of these newer industries. And, but gold has never had that. And I, I've just, I've been a little concerned over the last few years that there was the traditional thinking with gold about kind of the, as I said, like the hedge against all these other things going on in the world.

But then it started, I don't know if it was with Bitcoin and like with, people who traditionally would put their money in gold when all of a sudden was now putting in Bitcoin because they thought that was a good enough hedge against, you know, fiat currency.

But then, then gold seemed to kind of become a bit of a vanity play to where it was like when when people had a lot of like when you saw that those, those those levels in the bank accounts rising and people having excess cash, they were just buying gold, which wasn't, I didn't think was like a traditional use of gold, but people were now using it as a vanity play.

So, like, I'm just like, I'm, I'm really I'm really happy to see, I guess, this happening right now because it feels like it's reverting to its traditional value. I find funny. I find it funny that that was ever not the case because, I mean, I'm a big believer that history is the best predictor of the future, and we've had thousands upon thousands of years of of evidence that gold retains value.

And to think that suddenly, like something magical is going to happen in, in 2015 when Bitcoin comes around and it's going to change thousands of years of history, I'm not going to say that's impossible. But if I'm a betting man and I am, I'm going to bet that thousands of years of history are going to continue. More likely than then it's going to be replaced or or. Yeah, the more central banks own gold, or do more central banks own cryptocurrency? And which would they rather own?

Well, and I'm glad you put that up too, because actually we talked about previous episode about how these, these banks where we're loading up planes full of, gold and shipping them over from, Europe into, into the US. And so I looked into it a little bit more, and I also found out so that banks obviously need to keep reserves. Right. And basically, banks can only keep reserves three ways. They can obviously keep cash. But then they could keep treasuries and they could keep gold.

Those are, those are like the only things that are considered liquid assets as far as reserves and that kind of that made me feel better for gold as well too, because if you're basically, you know, you're not going to keep cash, your bank, you're just going to watch it erode away. And then treasuries, like with everything going on with treasuries right now, like gold's looking pretty good for these. But that's that's. One of the major reasons why gold is doing what it's doing.

I was going to share a graph. If I can probably float up here, if you guys can see this, this is the central bank graph of what the central banks are doing, and they've been a net buyer of gold for actually a while now. I think it was 2010. But as you can see, you know, back in 2020, that's really when, you know, gold was kind of going down in terms of how much they were buying. But in 2020 they just started to pick up the, the, the, the, the pace of buying, gold.

And it really has taken off over the last 2 or 3 years now. It has come down a little bit. That doesn't mean that they're selling. It just means the rate of increase of how much they're buying is going down. But the central banks is one of the main reasons why gold has this sort of tailwind behind it. It's got like a foundational thing built in. I mean, over the last four years, you know, central banks have been buying an average of over 1000 tons. I actually thought that was the site I saw.

I was looking at that graph. It almost looked like it was like thousand tons a quarter. But the fact that the central bankers believe that it does it is still relevant. And to Robert's point, they're buying gold. They're not buying diamonds, they're not buying crypto, they're not buying ether like they're not buying anything else. They're buying gold, which has traditionally been the store of value over the last, you know, five, 6000 years.

So I think that over the last ten years, somehow that's going to wipe out 6000 years, a, you know, really free markets determining. And that's really what what is valuable. So that's one of the major reasons why, gold really has had that thing. And then obviously we've talked a lot about the weakening dollar. We did a whole Robert, we did last week a whole thing on the dollar milkshake theory, actually, a second time we've done a diagnostic theory.

But, if you've looked at the dollar, we talked J you talked about it briefly earlier on, but the dollar is really taking a hit over the last month or two. You know, and that really correlates with the increase in gold as well because usually the dollar and gold are inversely related.

And that's a there's a reason for that is just because as the dollar goes down, the cost or the price of gold or the availability for gold for foreigners just makes it cheaper to buy because their dollar is going down. So usually you see an inverse relationship between the U.S. dollar and gold, and you've seen obviously the dollar just taking a whack over the last, you know, a couple of weeks, if not months. And I think it's at a five month low at this point.

And and that's why I was kind of coming back with you a little bit, maybe pushing back on maybe the stock market and the economy. But one of the reasons the dollar's going down is because people are kind of, well, they're selling dollars. That's the reason why the dollar is going they're selling dollars and they're going to buy other stuff, whether it's gold, whether it's foreign assets. And so that's another reason why you continue to see gold, gold doing well.

And as the dollar continues to decrease in value, if it does in the short term, the remember the dollar military theory predicts the dollar eventually will continue to go higher in the longer term. But in the short term the dollar's taking a hit. And obviously that's helping gold. And then we've got tariffs and inflation. And we talked about the inflation expectations. I don't think Brant Johnson predicted the geopolitical environment that we're in today.

That's kind of pushing the dollar down perhaps temporarily. But yeah. You would argue for sure that it's temporary, right. Like the he's looking at the long term trend. Like if you look at where he, if you asked him, what do you think in the next three years the dollar is going to be higher or lower. He's going to be like, I'm all in on the dollar is going to be higher a long term. But but in. Comparison to gold, they weren't we were just talking about the fear as a recession.

If we hit a recession, what's what are what's going to happen. Like what what what is our government going to do. They've already shown the playbook. And basically recessions are like, now this evil thing that we have to avoid at all costs instead of just a normal market cycle. So they're they're going to turn on the presses and they're going to start, start putting money back in the economy.

And when they do that, more dollars with, you know, the same amount of gold, theoretically, that should just push gold even higher. So, I mean, I guess, like I want to say like this is this has been a historic run up and we should probably be wary, but I don't really see any reason to to say like, be, let's be scared. Brant is bullish on the dollar, but he's bullish on gold as well for the reasons that we talked about. I think there's another nuance here.

Had there not been cryptocurrency invented, gold would be much higher right now than it is. There's a lot of dollars that went into the cryptocurrencies that their choice was gold or, cryptocurrency. And they decided to go that way. And even with gold at its high and we're all saying, hey, I'm glad we bought it five years ago or ten years ago. Yeah, I'm glad I bought bitcoin a while back too. Right. So it's not that one is better than the other.

I think you can get a lot of clues from market behavior, and that's really seems to be the theme of this. That's why sentiment is so important. You know, if you look at the The Fear and Greed Index, like we're way into extreme fear right now, and that is about the stock market. People are scared. And part of it is because it plays on itself. Like you, you guys have been talking about not just this week but in the past. And that's why you got to pay attention to this stuff.

I do want to hit on one thing, and let me start with, anybody that's been following me knows I'm, I'm, I'm a fan of of crypto. I'm very much a fan of the blockchain as, as a, as a technology. I've been buying bitcoin since 2014. So don't don't kill the messenger here. But the reality is for many years we thought of bitcoin and crypto as the hedge that we know gold already is.

And so there was a lot of reason to believe, or a lot of people who did believe that, that if we see a market crash, if we see an economic downturn, that crypto is going to be a good hedge. The reality is that we haven't seen that. The reality is that the biggest buyer and seller of crypto these days is institutional institutions. And so I have a chart here for those who are listening and can't see this, but it's basically a graph of the S&P 500 versus the bitcoin versus bitcoin price.

And what we see is, not a direct exact correlation, but a very close correlation, especially over the last few years where when S&P goes up, Bitcoin goes up. When the S&P goes down, Bitcoin goes down. And the reason for that is again people aren't holding as a hedge. There are a lot of institutions that are holding crypto and Bitcoin. And they're trading crypto and bitcoin the same way they trade U.S equities. And so they think it's just another stock.

A lot of the speculators are treating it that way. And that's. Not happening. We have ETFs with with with Bitcoin now. So I mean when you when you traded like a stock it's going to it's going to correlate to to the equities market. 100%. Now there is the whole discussion of the mining equities which is maybe too much to cover today.

But another way to get exposure into the metals is to go earlier in the process and early in the chain and find exploratory companies, mining companies, junior miners to seniors, producers, royalty companies. So there's a lot there if you want to stick your nose. Into it was that's a that's a good question for I'm I'm a very amateur metals investor. As you said, I didn't buy it as an investment.

I bought it kind of as an insurance policy, like, that's, you know, and I place in my portfolio, and now, because it's run up enough than, you know, real estate. Yeah, I had a lot of, I, a lot of money in commercial real estate. And my, my balance has gone out of whack a little bit. And it's, I have a little bit more gold and silver, exposure than I did previously when I first bought it. And so now I'm at this point, geez, run up to 3000 gold. Should I be taking a few chips off the table?

But then it's like the whole fear and like I bought it as an insurance policy. You're not never supposed to. You won't cut your insurance policy down. And so. So where do you. I'll start with Mauricio. Like where do you think we should go with this? With the with the gold is this is something we just they keep holding on or if you add to our our holdings or. What do you think? I mean, I'm a big fan of the dollar cost. I mean, I just I just keep accumulating.

So if the price goes up great, you keep buying. If the price goes down great, you get to buy more. I mean, I'm a more of a long term. And so there's an argument to be made by the way. And again, if you I'm not a short term trader, but there is an argument to be made that once it passes at 3000 psychological level, there isn't much of a ceiling like all the sellers are gone. It's like, well, who's who's going to say who's where? If they haven't sold the 3000, where are they going to sell?

And so that happened at 2000. That was a big I mean, think about it like all the years it took for it to get to 2000. And, you know, I've been buying gold for a long time and it took forever to get to 2000, but it literally took I don't know, Robert, how long has it taken since it got to to like it's a little less than maybe a year. I don't know, it's it's been very many years and I don't know, a very short period of time to go from 2 to 3.

You know, we, you know, we hang out with a lot smarter people than we are in terms of the gold market. And it's like there just once you once you blow past that, that level, there isn't much. Just like when something drops and breaks through a level, there's no buyers. And then the stock or the asset just continues to fall like, you know, don't catch the falling knife when something breaks out. There's just aren't any, you know, there aren't any sellers out there.

So. So the price could clearly I mean, it's already approaching well, let's say 3100. I mean, it's the futures are getting close to 33,050. So it's well above the 3000. So the next it's just looking at 4000. At this point. I want to put a little bit of a finer point before we end this discussion on something Robert said earlier. Gold is as a store of value. I saw this meme today and I'm sure I haven't verified the accuracy of it, but, but, I wouldn't be surprised if it's true.

And for those again, who are listening and not watching, it's a picture of two sides, split screen, a guy holding, gold bar on the left side, a guy holding the exact same gold bar on the right side, on the left side says ten of these would would buy you an average home in 1920. And then on the right side, ten of these will buy you an average home in 2023. The point being that gold has kept up with inflation.

Again, anybody that's that's followed us on this show knows that home prices basically go up with inflation over the last 120 years. There's a very direct correlation. Gold has gone up with inflation. The value of gold has held it. Gold has held its value probably better than any asset on the planet. And so not necessarily an investment, but we always talk about the fact that real estate is a great hedge against inflation. Real estate has other benefits. It has tax benefits. It has cash flow.

It has potentially. Lever you can leverage it forced depreciation through renovations, things like that. But if you don't want to do all that work, but you still want to hedge against inflation, gold is just as good as real estate as a hedge against inflation. And that example you gave all is very similar to the example I always give, which is the price of gas. Like right now people complain about how high gas prices are.

They're actually lower than they were back in the 60s if you price it in in silver. So back in 1963, which is the last year you could get a quarter that actually had silver in it, the basically silver quarter, you could buy a gallon of gas for a I think the price of gas was like $0.25 or $0.28, depending on when you are right.

Now, that same quarter that that from 1963, which is, which is silver is about $6, which means to me the price of that, that the price of gallon back in, you know, back in the 1963 is about 6 or $7 a gallon. So today it's a well, I mean, California is at 5 or 450 or whatever. So actually gas prices are down if you're using the same currency or the same money, which was that quarter that it was back in 1963. Same thing for minimum wage.

If you look at minimum wage, I think minimum wage is like $1.25 back in the 60s. Well, if you give somebody $1.20 5 in 1963, silver quarters, that's like 25 bucks an hour. So it's just things to think about. Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. That's, that that's the way to think about it. A 1965 call today will not even buy you, a 10th of a gallon of gas and a 1960 three quarter will buy you more than a gallon of gas. That's a great illustration, Jay. I'm going to definitely

borrow that. That is awesome. I've heard a few of them. The custom suit. Lonnie used to be won gold. Coin was a custom suit. Now, that's just about the same price. But. Except for Jay's suits, which are like Costco. Costco? Yeah. I was I was literally about to say it brings here people to it. All right. What ounces of silver suits. Hey, let's talk about some syndications guys. Because we all love talking syndications.

We talked about them a lot on this podcast, obviously, because we're all big fans of it. It's how JJ and I do most of our deals through syndication. It's also the focus of Mauricio, his legal expertise over the last few years. Back before he was an asset protection guy, and wrote books and did all this stuff. And who knows what he's going to do in the future? Sky's the limit for Mauricio now.

But most recently, three episodes ago, we discussed the difference between 506 B and 5 or 6 C Syndications. We sleep. Yeah, we. Yeah, we might have got a little ahead of ourself though, because we kind of skipped over the whole, discussing syndicating deals versus not syndicating deals. We kind of just were like, oh yeah, you we assume you're syndicating, it's, the 5 or 6 B versus 5 or 6 C mirror. Which one should we do? Well, luckily we have the OG of, syndication here.

He even runs an event, titled Secrets of Successful Syndication. So, Robert, why don't you back us up a little bit? Let's backtrack a little bit so we can help us explain why, syndication, as the kids say these days is bussin. It is. And I think it's not that far off from our conversation, because what syndication allows you to do is divide the risk as well as divide the reward.

So the basic premise of syndication is we can come together and some people bring the deal, some people bring the expertise of the bring the money, some people bring that or whatever it might be. Everyone comes together and then we have a way to divide the return. But we're also dividing the risk. And just like the idea of investing in real estate versus investing in the metals, metals, simple or syndication can be simple.

From the passive side, I got a bet on, I used the analogy of the horse, the jockey, and the track and the syndication. The horse is the deal. The thing you're investing in the track is the market that it sits in. And the jockey that's the most important part is the person or the people that run the deal. So if I'm a passive investor in a syndication, all that means is I could put 100 grand to work in a bigger deal that I could probably get access to myself.

And we do this, do team work on the other side or the folks that won, you know, Maurice's clients and all of you guys actively use syndication as a tool to go bigger, faster, do bigger deals, be able to move with more capital? So what I love about it is it's a complete win win. Not that it can't go wrong. Any deal can go wrong, but it does allow you to divide the risk and the reward. But the fundamental question that's great that you brought that up, Kyle, is does a deal need to be syndicated?

Because if you could do the deal with, say, a loan and your own downpayment, then why syndicate? And and that's not just a philosophical question. That's a math question. So the premise there is, I could do so much with my own ability to qualify and my own ability to put a down payment. And then at some point, I'm going to run out of my own money and my ability to qualify. So either I quit doing deals or I start to syndicate.

So there are some deals that shouldn't even be 5 or 6 B or 5 or 6 C or 5 or 6 anything, because they're actually suited just to be real estate investments. Now of ratio, if you've heard this show for a while, you know he will teach you that you can't, no matter what you call it, the law, the securities laws the same. So you have to be super careful with this stuff. You and your buddy go out and buy a fishing cabin that you're going to keep in the woods.

The minute you got a friend bringing in money, there's just a lot more to talk about. But I think syndication is an excellent tool for both the active person doing the syndication as well as the passive people investing. There's ways to get tax benefit, cash flow appreciation, all the things we like real estate for. I can get them with a little bow, right.

If I'm willing to maybe give up a little return on and a little of the control of the deal, I can get exposure to real estate in a really low hassle way. And plus, I think also. From a from an LP perspective to you, you get that benefit of economies of scale. First of all, right. Because you're getting a bigger building you so that that has it just economies scale to go in there.

But also I think sometimes you've got like less competition, like it's much harder to go buy a $5 million building or a $10 million building or, well, these guys with J and Kyle, you know, 20, $30 million building than it is to go buy a $500,000 house. And and AJ, how many of us are going to buy a big giant soul storage unit? Not too many. But if you come together and you like that asset class and there's lots of reasons to love it, well, that's that's the way you play in those bigger deals.

Yeah. You guys did you did. When did you guys make the jump? I mean when did you guys figure out that hey doing it one of these and Tuesdays. And that was that was going to get you so far. But you know scaling to syndication was really the path for you guys for I presume it's a it's a wealth building vehicle for you guys. Yeah. I guess Jay's being silent, so I'll step in. I was, I was wondering if you were going to jump in. Yeah. Well, because because I think I got into it one year before Jay.

And it's one of those things to your point, you realize my favorite thing about syndication is before syndication, you have to be you kind of have to wear every hat. Right. And you're not at not every hat is going to fit. And the problem is you kind of just have to make them all fit. And not everyone is good at every aspect of doing real estate. You might be excellent at running the numbers, or you might be excellent at managing tenants and and running a business plan.

Or you might be excellent at finding deals. But I've yet to find someone who's excellent at every single one of those. And, and so the but the problem is, is that when you're buying your own, you kind of just have to like you. There's not enough money there for you to be able to hire out experts at every single one of them. So you kind of just have to learn how you do it yourself.

One of my favorite things about syndication is because of the size of the deal on the scale, you are forced to hire great people. Think about, you know, an apartment complex. You can't self-manage 300 units. The lender won't allow it, right? You need strong third party viable management. Well, if you're going to buy a rental home, you might decide, well, I'll go collect the rent myself. That's one way to go, right? Save the money of the property manager.

But long term, if you build up any kind of portfolio, there comes a point where you can't do it all, even if you were predisposed to doing it. All right. And and so Ashley Knight, so we've talked about before, I'm business partners with Ashley and Jay. And before Jay came along, Ashley and I, and. Screwed everything up for a while. I feel like I was there. I feel like I was their child before Jay came along and we had all this freedom.

No, but before Jay came, we were trying to wear a couple too many hats. And I'm I, I will I will admit, Ashley is much better than I am at, at juggling hats. I kind of have one hat that fits pretty well, and I like it. And, I don't want to put on any other hats. So, like, I'm, I'm very good at the, the behind the scenes, behind the, the the the spreadsheets and doing that kind of stuff.

But, if you want me to go and shoot the shit with brokers and, and make those connections and get deals done, it's not really me. If you want me to go and raise money from somebody that's totally not me, I'm like, I, I have never been comfortable asking somebody for money. I get the concept. I can take all the trainings. I know what you're supposed to do. I still walk into that situation and get a cold shiver. And so Ashley was never really good at that either.

At her, her problem is more so she's a very, open and honest person, and she just will tell you absolutely everything and absolutely, like, just over and inundate you with information about deals. And that's kind of not the way to, to, to bring in investors. You kind of they, they care about certain things and they care about and they want it succinctly and they want it in a hurry. And we we just never really had a good knack for that.

And so the best thing about syndication is, is that the deal is big enough that we're not good at that. So you just partner with somebody because that pie is big enough. You could just slice off a piece of that pie for somebody else who's actually good at that. So, that that's how we got into it. In the beginning, we tried to wear a couple too many hats at their first crack at syndication. We realized we needed help.

And then Jay stepped in, and now we kind of have a, you know, a and then we have one more partner who we're not allowed to to mention in these things because he's super shy. And, then we kind of rounded out our team and we found a good lawyer. He, he actually just quit, though, so we're, we don't know what we're going to do. But I'm going to. Finish this sentence for for everyone then. So. So you said Ashley is open and honest and Jay is.

Jay is much better at, telling the story the way the investors want to hear, I guess, is the thing you like. Investors are fickle and they are busy. A lot of times they're super busy people. They don't have time to, you know, they don't want to go through every like we spend hundreds of hours analyzing these deals. They don't want to go through that hundreds of hours. There's a reason they came to us is because they they know, like and trust us to put that time in and do that.

And so they have certain things that they care about. People know like and trust Jay Jay is smart enough to get all of that other stuff and understand it. And I'm. Waiting for them, but not smart enough to. Well know because I guess I was trying to go to the other side of it, is that there's a lot of people who who's pitching or pitching deals these days who are not intimately involved and don't necessarily understand it to the, to that level.

So I was I was trying to give you a compliment, Jay, that is somebody who's actually, who talking to investors and dealing with investors actually understands is intimately involved in the deal. And that's just something that every, every, every team needs. And by syndicating, you can have each people do what they're good at and and not have to do anything else. And if there's a, there's enough to go around to, to have that involvement. Yeah. And Kyle you brought up a great point.

And Robert, I want your take on this too, because, you know, you talked about like you hate raising money and that's not your skill set. But but syndication is more than just raising money, right. It's raising money but also finding deals. And Robert at your event, I you know, I've been to it so many times you talk about the, the cereal and the milk analogy, which I always think it's great.

Like you're always as a syndicate or you're, you're, you're, you're looking for the milk, you're doing the sales that like part of it is raising the money. You're always looking for money, but you're also also looking for deal underwriting deals and having that skill set. So maybe maybe talk a little bit about that, that, that analogy that you guys, you use quite a bit. What's the balance. Right. If you talk to anyone who syndicates either they're deal rich.

Hey I got 3 or 4 deals, but I don't really have the list to be able to fund that much or it's the other way. Hey, I've got investors and they've asked to put more money in, and I don't want to lower my standards and take a deal with this. Hensel and so I use the milk and cereal theory, which is, you know, you start out with some cereal in a bowl and you pour in some milk and you get near the bottom and there's way too much milk left.

So you pour some more cereal in and then you don't have enough milks. You pour more milk in before, you know, if you eat the whole box of cereal and the whole carton milk. But it's the premise that it's never imbalance and it's not going to be. So as a syndicator, you need to learn that there will be periods of time where you'll be scrambling for dollars, and there'll be periods of time where you gotta close on deals, right?

And there'll be times where your, your, your awesome clients bring you referrals. They bring their own capital and you don't have any place for it, which is why we love to affiliate with lots of people in the business. If I don't have an active deal, but I have a client that's got a place $250,000, I would much rather introduce them to one of you guys who has a deal and say, hey, these are some solid guys. I can't guarantee results, but do your homework, check it out.

They've got great track records. That doesn't take away from me. In fact, that gives me credit when I will point to somebody else that, you know, a lesser minded person would say, that's my competitor. Not at all. Together, everyone achieves more. This time. They want to be in your deal. Next time, they'll want to be in my deal. And it does give exposure to different asset classes. Like I love to invest passively in stuff that I have no business being active in.

It kind of Kyle's point you can't be good at everything. You can only be good at a handful of things. And the essence of syndication is that you put together people on a team where you have the bases covered and together you it's you've got a much better fighting chance of making the deal happen. But there's always going to be that imbalance. And it's it's like that in real estate. We just don't think about it. I want to buy another rental house. Well, I you know, I can't find the right deal.

I can't make a pencil. But I got a busy life. It's not the end of the world. When your business is syndication, then deal flow is incredibly important. But so is having the right number of investors and the skill set to be able to talk to those investors. As Kyle says, Jay has. That's critical. That's critical for both sides because the investor needs to be able to understand they're busy people. That's why they're passively investing and not doing the deal themselves.

They want enough information to take action, but then they need to have confidence in the team. And once they do, you know, we see a passive investor isn't really passive. You do the work up front. You've got the market, the deal, the all the operators. Once you're feeling good about that now, there's not much to do. Once I write the check, there's not much to do, but I need to do the work upfront to make sure I'm betting on the right horse.

Actually, can you talk a little bit about the fear factor? You know, when people say, hey, I'm just I don't I don't want that awesome responsibility of taking on investor money. Like, how do you address somebody who's thinking about syndicate and thinking about taking the leap? But, they're a little bit fearful of, like, I don't want to be responsible for taking these people's hard earned money. What do you say to those folks?

I would say that if you are concerned about losing people's money and you're worried about that, you're an excellent candidate for syndication. If, on the other hand, you're like, I don't care about that, then probably a fast food career would be better for you. It's the quandary. It's how Kenny McElroy, he also often speaks at our events.

We came together on this very, very point that the wrong people often make themselves, you know, in this business and happy to be surrounded by a lot of the right people that are doing it for the right reasons. But you do have to, you know, trust, you know the person a lot. So you have to understand their motives, their agenda, how they get paid. Marissa, you teach us, everything is disclosed.

If I'm making any kind of fee or whether it's a reversion fee or a brokerage fee, or I'm getting anything at all, I have to disclose that because you want to be 100% transparent. Now, I will tell you a lot of the passive investors, they don't have a lot of time like you send them a report once a month or once a quarter. And, you know, a lot of us use the the electronic systems where we get the feedback of whether or not you open it and how long you read it and all that stuff.

So many investors don't to read this stuff, but you have to communicate and communication is huge, so there's just so many angles of it. If you have trepidation or fear, that's good. That means you have a pulse and perhaps you're the right kind of person to consider it. Yeah, I so so Robert was talking earlier about we shouldn't treat our competitors like competitors. We should treat them as potential partners.

I'm going to I'm going to go from the other side of that coin and make another point that I think is really interesting. That's worked so well in our business. Treating your partners somewhat like competitors. And I that sounds weird, but let me let me dig in a little bit. So what we found in our business is Ashley, who is his as our business partner. Kyle, my business partner. She focuses on deal finding, asset management. She's the best at that. I focus on capital raising.

Kyle focuses on raising the kids. Or, I don't know, watching. Oh, no, I'm sure, I'm sure he does something. I. If you would step up and do the underwriting for me, Jay, then I could focus on raising my kids like is my lifelong dream. So if you. I did promise you I would do that. Like. Take some more videos, go to maybe a few more of Robert's, educational things. I'm sure he's got something on on underwriting. You can take.

That better that he's not buying as many Girl Scout cookies anymore because of the challenge. There you. Go. That's true. Yeah. You just to some to your house now. Just so you lose. So, so Ashley runs the let's it's not just this, but she basically finds the deals for our group. I raise the money for our group. And what we found that works really well for us is we basically treat these two parts of the businesses essentially as two businesses, almost competing businesses.

It's her job to find as many great deals as possible, regardless of how much money I can raise. And it's my job to raise as much money as possible, regardless of how many deals she can find. In a perfect world, she finds tons of deals. I raise tons of money, we bring them together and everybody's happy. In the real world, she's finding more deals than I am, or I'm raising more money than she is, and we're forcing the other person to be accountable.

If I have too much money, she needs to find deals. If she has too many great deals, I need to find money. And if we can't do that, well, we're going to go out to other people. If she finds great deals and I can't raise the money, she's going to bring in other partners who can. If I have tons of money and she can't find great deals, I'm going to go find other places to put that capital. You got a caveat there. I just saw Marissa use it, which.

She doesn't bring in capital raise or she brings in partners. She brings in partners who can help with all parts of the deals, but they have their investors that they bring with them. It's a. Great mindset. This is Malkin cereal, but you're using it in the way that it's friendly competition. You know, kind of like the body fat thing. But everyone benefits from it. And I think that's a that's a great mental attitude to have. I've had a very similar experience in our construction company.

You know, it's it's how how many, how many houses can we sell? How many houses can you build? And that's it's it's almost the same thing. So I love the mentality behind that. Jack. Yeah. I do want to talk about one thing because earlier I think Mauricio asked how did how did you guys get started in this business? Kyle gave his story. I want to give my story because I think it might, encourage people. I don't want to inspire. I'm not. I'm not an inspiring guy, but maybe to encourage some people.

So I grew up in. I lived in apartments my whole life as a kid. In fact, I lived in very large apartment complexes. There's a guy named Alex Brown who's a well known, apartment builder, and I lived in one of his 600 unit complexes when I was growing up.

I went to college, and like, my junior year in college, I moved to, an apartment complex outside of the University of Maryland called Spring Hill Lake, which is the, I think, the largest, single apartment complex, 1300 or 1400 units on the East Coast. And so I had always lived in these huge apartment complexes. And to me, owning real estate was achievable. I could buy single family houses, I could buy duplexes, I could be a landlord.

But the idea of owning an apartment complex was absolutely outside of my realm of possibilities. And this is somebody I worked in Silicon Valley. I did mergers and acquisitions on billion, literally billion dollar deals. But I couldn't get my head around how somebody like me that grew up living in apartment complexes, not having a lot of money, could ever be somebody that could own apartment complexes.

And it wasn't until I started partnering with Ashley and Kyle that I realized that this isn't just something that kids of billionaires do, it's something that it was that. Or Blackrock. Or Blackrock.

This is something that any of us can do if we know how to do it, if we find the right partners, if we build the team, we can do this and it's not going to be like, you go out tomorrow and you're leading a deal that buys 500 units, but you can go out tomorrow and be a minority partner on a deal that buys 500 units and contribute whatever skill you have.

Maybe you're a great underwriter or you can learn how to underwrite you contribute that skill to a deal, and you get a couple percentage pieces of equity. Maybe you're really good at due diligence in forensic accounting, and you can look at leases and and earn earn a few percent there. Maybe you can find a deal and earn a few percent there. Maybe you know how to manage contractors. You can be a construction manager and learn a few percent there and tie yourself in.

Insert yourself into somebody else's group working on one of their deals, and you learn the business. And that's what I did with Ashley and Kyle. I came in and I said, okay, I am pretty good at underwriting. I'm pretty good at due diligence. I'm pretty good at this and that. I can sign on a loan. And I inserted myself into the first deal we did. I got a couple percent, not much.

But that deal I learned the business, and within a couple deals after that, I could be somebody that could lead a deal doing 50 or $100 million apartment complex. And so it's just I want people to realize that it's real easy to get yourself in this mindset, that this is what other people do. You can't do it because you don't have the money or you don't have the background, or you don't have the pedigree. You don't have the experience.

I was that guy that didn't have the money or the background or the pedigree or the experience, but I found other people that I could work with. I found people that could teach me and I could work my way up, and here I am. I can do it now. And so that mindset shift, unfortunately, I was 48 years old before I figured it out. I wish I would have figured out 20 years sooner. So anybody out there that's in their 20s realized you can do it? It's not something that other people do. Anybody can do it.

If you're willing to work hard, surround yourself with the right people and work from the ground up better. Clip that Jay. That was like, inspirational, like Tony Robbins right there. You gotta, you gotta. I don't think I want to be better than that one. That was pretty. That was pretty good.

Another great example is that it's so hilarious because I'm, you know, I'm here in San Clemente, California, and I'm literally in my office, and I look at right beyond my computer screen and I look outside, there's this there's a hotel, there's a boutique hotel that literally sits across the street from my office. And my buddy Rich summers bought this property, literally. I think it closed last week. Like, literally, he's the guy who bought it and it's a boutique hotel.

16 I think it's a 16 bed, 16 room hotel. And, it wasn't that. I'm a little surprised. I mean, I think it negotiated some pretty good terms, but I think he bought it for like 5 or $6 million. Right. So, hey, I don't have $6 million. Probably you guys aren't liquid enough to just go plunk down 6 million, but, you know, you get a bank loan and you probably need a couple million dollars to go put the down payment and whatever renovations. We don't have $2 million.

He went out and just raised probably at $100,000 a pop, got ten, 20, 30 investors to, you know, aggregate those money. And and now he's the proud owner of a 16 unit or a 16 hotel room. A boutique hotel. That's the power of syndication. You couldn't do that on your own. But if you are, you develop that skill and skill. You can, you can, you can actually buy stuff that you ordinarily wouldn't even think of. And as you're driving around town, most of those buildings are. You look around.

A lot of those are are bought by syndicators. And another thing to keep in mind is we're talking real estate here, syndicating real estate. You can syndicate anything. So Kyle and I are angel investors. We invest in other people's businesses together. And what they're doing is they're syndicating. They're starting a business. They need a few million dollars to start this business. So they essentially do syndication. They bring in passive investors.

I went to Kyle a couple of years ago and said, I want to buy a sports team. I want to buy a hockey team. And we actually sat down and we started talking to brokers that that broker, like the sale of sports teams. And how do we do that? How do you buy a 20 million or 30 or $50 million sports team? You syndicate it 21. In 20 2021, 2022 was it was a very frothy time. Yeah. We decided not to do it. But the reality is you can use the syndication.

It's a way of structuring deals and you can use syndication to buy expensive artwork. You can use my real estate, you can use it to my business, and you can use it to buy sports teams. You can use it to buy anything that you bought. You buy a horse, you have horse racing. You have you have horses. I own race horses and we we have syndicated horses in the past. It's a pain in the butt. But yeah, we you can syndicate racehorses. We can sell. Three major motion picture is syndicated.

There you go. Yep. I and I have, I have I've invested in that too. I've never made a penny investing in in films. I do have my executive producer credit on a couple of, like, small indie films, but never made a penny. My favorite syndication stuff is the stuff you guys do at the event. You guys syndicate lunch. Tell me how you think your lunch. Yeah. And, we charge $85 for a lunch.

You get to sit with a faculty member, you get a special guest speaker, and, of course, at a hotel, lunch doesn't cost $85. It only cost $65. And, we take that extra $20. And that's how we let the faculty eat. So we joke that, hey, we syndicated lunch, and it was really easy and really fast, and everyone who came benefited from it. So it is a great example. It's more of a mindset than anything else. But to get to the bigger deals, you're right.

So you drive around town, almost all the big buildings and the complex and all the bowling alleys and everything right there. All those centers are people sharing the risk and sharing the reward to. To cap this off, I do always feel like I have to be the other side of this because what I've found is we always tend to hang out with people who always want to maximize and be the best they can be.

And like, my wife's the the ultimate like she I always feel like she's got something to prove and wants to hit her maximum potential and, you know, squeeze every single drop out of every thing. Not everyone's like that. There are people. If it wasn't for her, I probably wouldn't be like that at all. I would probably be that person who has the the 20 residential loans between me and my spouse on on just 20 houses paying down the mortgage. And that would be my retirement plan while I work my W-2.

It that's not a bad plan at the if you if that's what you want. If you are happy being a W-2 employee and you're happy, you know, having a little bit more stability in your life and just having real estate as a supplemental thing, I would argue you could also, just as we said, invest your money passively in these things. But if that's not you, then there's nothing wrong with that as well. So like there's the the other side of it is you're dealing with big dollars.

You're dealing with very capable people who are taking, you know, very large portions of their lives to working really hard. If that's not what you want to do, you don't have to do that. I mean, either you could just kind of do your single green house instead of jumping up to the red hotels and still be just fine. You're not going to get rich like Mauricio, but. Most investors will never need Mauricio services, and that's fine.

It's just if you get Fannie and Freddie out, if you run of, you're out of your own capital, but you still have deal flow. It is something to consider for a passive investor. It's just a way to get exposure to something other than little green houses. I and I would argue the best reason to get into it is you're just really good at some. If you're really good at finding deals or if you're really good at, you know, some aspect of that.

I think that your maximizing your potential by finding somebody else who needs that skill and, and just adding a few zeros because you're doing the same stuff, right. You're doing the exact same stuff. You're just doing it in a bigger fish or bigger fishbowl or whatever. They're saying, man. And like, I want to I don't want to get my soapbox because I know we we need to wrap it up. You're moving on. But that is one of my big soapboxes.

It's like, hey, if you're really good at something, if you're good at underwriting, you're good at buying properties, you're good at the business of real estate and syndication is great because you get more capital. You get to bring more people along with you. These days, a lot of people just raise the money because they oh, it's kind of cool. I'm just going to go raise money, and I don't really know why I'm raising money or what it's for. I think a good syndicator already does something great.

Whatever it is that your superpower is, and you just want to scale that and bring in more capital to it. That's where I think syndication just makes a a huge difference. But if you're just like there, oh, I'm just going to go raise a bunch of money and I don't give it to Kyle. I don't know what the hell's going on with I don't know what Kyle's doing, but that's where I think the issues are.

But if you've got a talent, dude, just just scale that, lean on that, blow it up and go raise money and go make your ten or whatever you're doing already. Just make sure one of those people is an operator, someone who notes that I actually run a deal after you buy it. Let's, seem to be missing a few times with some of these indicators. All right. Robert, before. Before Kyle goes on, I got to apologize in advance. Kyle does this thing called, like, a top ten list. It's really lame. It's really.

I don't know, I'm. Going to pander a little bit. Welcome to the pander verse here, I heard you. Yeah. So I'm going to do so. As I said, I used to listen to, Robert and, actually back, back even when Bob was on the, on the your podcast with you too. And you guys had some great guests. I always loved it because you'd have these, like, big name guys. And I would be excited to listen to this. And it wasn't, it was. It was like a little insight into, like, wow.

He seemed like real people who are doing real estate. And so I'm going to do the top five real estate guys. Guest from, from back when your episodes. And this is a it's a little bit skewed and Mauricio, I don't think you should be should be number one. Marissa. Number two. Marissa. You should be a little bit nice to me. I'm going to I'm going to modify this list. So number five, I'm based on number five, Peter Schiff.

So I went to your YouTube, Peter Schiff's his episode back in 2020, I think it was, 875,000 views, which I think is pretty good. And he's also I thought it was timely, too, because we did a whole segment in gold. That's kind of his thing these days. And he's got his own podcast. It's even his might even be longer than ours. And he talks a lot. But, so but he's a great guest to have on. And, you. Know, Peter. Has predicted 19 of the last two recessions. Yeah. Exactly.

But he is I do like listening to him. Guys like him. Guys like George. Because though they're not always right, they do think of things a little bit like that we wouldn't necessarily think of. And it adds to your pool of ideas that, you could potentially pull from and create your own ideas. Next, Kenny McElroy, he's obviously a staple of our real estate people. I know you guys are good buys with, He he felt like he deserved to be on the list.

He was also, he might have been number two, I think, on your most viewed, and then obviously Robert Kiyosaki, you guys always have Robert Kiyosaki on, he's always been a great pull. He's wrote one of the, if not the best real estate book of all time. Number two, before 2016, it wasn't too much of a, a controversial, guest, but you guys used to have Donald Trump on your on your, radio show. He would come out and talk real estate. He wouldn't talk politics.

He wouldn't talk, any of these other, you know, tariffs or anything like that. He would just talk real estate and, I, I actually when we prepping for this, I went back and just listened to a little bit of one of your old episodes back when, before he was, Donald and he was just, you know, the real estate investor and the number one is obviously Mauricio. Raoul. This was the best episode you've ever had. I went back and listened to that. Just. He he's such a he's such an amazing guest.

He's so succinct when he talks about. And I just think he was. He's awesome. Which one? Which one of the 17 episodes that I've been on did you like the most? I know you've been on a few times, actually. Well, I'll tell you. When I can't think of a good guest to invite. Now, Marissa has been so long and we talk. Keeps us up to speed, you guys. And he's always available. He's always available. Mean Christina's podcast. That's like. How Kyle. Thank you for that.

So that's good. And, Yeah. And so that's, you also now have all these events and because of, I assume because of your radio show, you had so many good guests. Now you have great speakers come to these events and I haven't my my wife is gets seasick, but I've always wanted to come to your, your. Cruise. I wanted to see. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Oh. Speaking at the summit. At sea, if you want to. So you mentioned Peter Schiff, Ken McElroy, Robert. They're all going to be on the summit

at sea this year, right? Robert? Not Donald Trump, but the others that you mentioned will all be on the, investor summit and see our 23rd year. Plus we've got, you know, George Gammon and we've got, Mike Maloney, bestselling author on gold and silver, and Brian London and Dana Samuelson, a couple more really awesome gold guys. So the gold panel will be wonderful this year. And we'll go to the Bahamas and Saint Thomas and Saint Martin on a beautiful cruise ship. So, yeah, the seasick thing.

I get that in all the years we've been doing this, we've only had 2 or 3 people that it was such an issue that they just couldn't even participate. But I have a heart for it because it's no fun, to to be with all these amazing fun, those. Cruises they have, they have pretty good built in childcare too, right? They always have the, Do the kids camp is awesome. From ages 2 to 17. Your kids will have a better time than you will, that's for sure.

All little group of kids, we call them the Pepper pals, and they hang out together. And it's all my boys who are about three years younger than Kenny's boys. You know, they always looked up to Kyle and Cade because they were older and they had done businesses and all of that. So it's fun now to see them hanging out as young adults. Do you say Cade. Cade, Kyle and Cade McElroy? I didn't know I have. I have a Cade also, and I didn't I don't hear that name too often.

Yeah. So there you go. Okay. This is Kenny's younger son. So. So, Jim, I'm coming up on your segment here, and I'm scrolling down. I've got record. For the record. For the record, I do enjoy Jay's segment more than I do yours. Okay, so so here you go. Hypothetical situation. I've got it in my head. I didn't write it down $50 million, but now you. Have to go. You don't have. To go any farther. I'll take it.

You have to become the staunchest supporter of the political party that you hate the most right now. Done. I mean, I could do it. I do it all the time on this podcast. I always have to take the other guys. So you have to be. You have to be the one. Time commitment. For the rest of your life. You've got to support that party that. Go to advance and rallies and absolutely okay. Where are the shirt? Yep. You got to wear the shirt. You got to go on Facebook and argue and do all the stupid stuff.

Again. I always look pro tip always convert lumps of money into cash flow. So $50 million lump sum is about depending on your return might be 5 million a year, maybe $3.5 million a year for $5 million a year. I will go to rallies. I will do whatever it is that you tell me to do. I the hard part about these hypothetical situations is I have to do my best in my head to calibrate for you guys what that number is. I could have said 10 million. I could have said 100.

I think 50 was a bit too high on this one. I probably should have gone 25 or 10. It would be tough. I don't think I would do it for ten. I'm going to work for this. I'm sitting here thinking which side would be worse? Like if you told me like I had to be, that you might have to. You might have to flip at some point in the future. You might have to flip. Yeah, you might have to flip at some point in the future. That's what I mean.

Like, I don't I don't know which side would be worse, which I would be have more fear of being a diehard supporter of the Democrats or diehard supporter of the Republicans. I don't I don't know what's going to be worse. So they both so here's here's another hypothetical that I just thought of because it was an interesting one since Robert's on the show and he's a huge beer drinker and I'm not I mean, I like beer, but I'm not a huge be.

I'm a wine drinker, as is J. So J, how much would you have to get paid to never be able to drink a glass of wine again, and always have to drink beer whenever you have a drink? And then Robert, same for you. Like instead of if you can never have beer again, but every time you want to have a drink, you would have to have a glass of wine. Could it? Could I do like liquor liquors off the table here? Could I do clear rum? I there's this thing here. No. No wine or beer. No sugar, no carbs.

It's really good. Wine or beer. Don't promote your frickin thing to wine or beer. Wow. How much? Give me a number. What's the number? What's the check? I gotta write for you to do that. It's probably. It's probably less than you expect. Yeah, mine is two. I think. Yeah. Like a. Million bucks. If I wrote you $1 million check, you would be. No. No, no, it's a lot more than a million. So. Okay, so so 10 million. Maybe 20. Oh, wow. So I do it for less than. Just for alcohol, man.

You are. Yeah, I do like. You do it for, for a silver dollar, right? Yeah. Maybe a monster box. I don't know, box of gold. Yeah, yeah. It's true. Yeah, it wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't be that cheap, but it would be like I've shifted. I feel like I've shifted so many times in my life, where, like, obviously when you're in college, you're beer drinker, and then coming out of college, you just kind of start drinking better beer.

And then, then I feel like I went on to liquor, and then I just drank wine because we started going to nice steakhouses and, like, I feel like I could I could make that shift again. So, like, I feel like I do it for five, honestly. So 5 million you would drink? For you what? It would. I don't know what it would be for you, though. You're you're a you're a bourbon drinker, so I don't know what that means. Yeah. So I would say you would have to be wine. I don't drink a lot of wine anymore.

So for you, it would be here's the thing for you would be how much for you never to be able to drink a glass of bourbon or whiskey or scotch or something like that. You always had a drink, a peace Cola. Oh, peace Cola. That's that's higher. I don't like that's like you're if you're drinking, peace cola. I feel like you're just drinking with a purpose. You're not drinking for enjoyment. And so it kind of takes the enjoyment I feel. I feel like if I became. I don't drink much wine at all anymore.

But I feel like if I got into it, I could find the enjoyment in it, and I could take it seriously. I could do that with liquor. And I could do that with beer as well. But, you know, piss and cola, I can't, I don't think I yeah. When I, when, when I, when the, the fitness challenge, one of the things I'm going to request is for Jay to get me a, a first growth, bottle of, I don't know, maybe a Margaux or something. A couple, a couple thousand dollar bottle of wine and.

Well, we'll enjoy that for with everyone. That's what I'm thinking. Well, that last question, I'm going to give everybody 10s $250,000 a year. I'm out. Nope. That's all you. You have to. You have to pick a job. You're going to get paid $250,000 a year, and you have to pick a real job to do. What are you going to pick? I'm going to be a co-host of the Drunk Real Estate. I haven't had a real job in years. Yep, that's not a real job ever, I know. Wow, that was like the what. Is that, Robert?

The worst two weeks of your life. By the week of the weeks, I had an actual job. Worst two weeks of my life, I think. I know what though. I'd be a morning radio DJ there. That's that is a good job. I couldn't get up early that morning. No, that's what I mean. Like, don't you have to get up at like 3 or 4 in the morning? Oh, Robert. Hold on wait wait wait wait. Robert, you don't get up till the crack at noon.

How does that work? Well, I. Like to wake up when I'm finished sleeping, but if I had a high paying job like that, I might be willing to give up, but I have. I had to do something. That's what I want to do. I would be a profession or a YouTube reviewer. Well, my answer. I. See why you got to qualify. What's a job like? A job like you're you're talking 40 hours working for someone else, right? Is that what you're talking? Yep. Okay. I'll work.

I'll work as general counsel for the real estate guys again. Again? I know, I feel like I like I feel like you're thinking about this the opposite way. I feel like you pick something that's a super low paid job because it's easy. And. But you, since you're getting paid 250,000. A lot of minimum wage, there are a lot of minimum wage jobs I wouldn't do for 250. I know. So but that's what I'm picking.

Like some more middle like I'm thinking like, you know, like low end security guard or like lifeguard or like something like that where, like, I could go and I could, you know, basically, you risk your. Life for 250 grand a year. Well, I'm. Okay. I'm not. I'm not taking the security guard job at the Federal Reserve. I was thinking more along the lines of, you know, at the, chick fil A, when Jay does one of his freak outs and says he needs a sauce packet.

I'm looking at the pool over here thinking that lifeguard is not a bad one. Yeah, exactly 250 grand to sit in a pool. Yeah, but then you got a shark attack, and you got to go save the kid who's in the middle of a shark attack. Like, I mean, come on. And then you're. Famous. It's perfect. Okay. All right, let's wrap this up. We'll end with, Robert here because he's, we got to give him some time to think about this. I feel like you got so much you want to plug? Probably here, right?

You you got to take take your time. So, Jay, what do you got? What do you got the plug for us? I'm going to plug anything Robert's doing. Like I said, I took, the real estate guys sales training course. Actually, I can still remember the name of it because it was catching. It was based off of that book, right? It was how to win funds and Influence people. Right? Instead of friends, you change it to funds. I saw what you did there. Yep. And it it was so good.

And, And I'm not a sales guy, and I didn't want to go. I mean, I wanted to go, but it was it was, it was tough for me. And it was so, so good. So. Yeah. And anything Robert's about to mention, that's what I'm pitching. All right, Mauricio, I feel a trend coming on here. Yeah. For sure. I mean, I will, I'll let Robert, himself pitch the, the secret to success with the the case which I hope he's going to go pitch because I'm going to be there. So hopefully he's going to be there.

It's more for me than him, but I'm going to pitch. I'm just sharing on the screen here. The the the the the summit at sea. What is this year, 20 or 30 or 40? But but I mean, look at the look at the stack. Look, look at this. Peter Chef, Ken McElroy, Robert Kiyosaki, George Gammon, Brad Shamrock, Brian London, Dana, who are like two of the top gold and silver and precious metals guys in the world. And yeah, just an amazing faculty. So how far do we have to go to get to you? Yeah. Well, yeah.

Robert, what is that? What is that? And there's a little bit of a time commitment. You got to go like it's like a week or ten days, right? Well, one of those days. Nine days. It's two days in the hotel in Miami. And then we get on a cruise ship for seven days. It's June 20th, the 29th, and you can go to an investor summit@c.com and learn about where we're going and who we're going with and what cabins are like and all that stuff.

So investor summit@c.com, and no matter how great we tell you it is, it is way better than that. Every night at dinner, you're hanging out with different faculty members and folks from all over the world, right. Real estate investors, the fact that it's a barrier to entry, it's expensive, means that you're hanging around all the right people. And then the syndication events coming up right around the corner. You got to move quick. We do it twice a year.

So if you miss this one you can come do another one. But you will join us, the 28th and 29th of March this month, right around the corner in Dallas, Texas. If you go to real estate Guys Radio.com, you'll see the events tab, and there's all our upcoming events. That's the secrets of successful syndication.

And it's great if you're thinking about, hey, I'm pretty good at real estate, and I could maybe become a fund manager and raise capital and put together an awesome team like Ashley and Kyle and Jay. Or if you're just a passive person that wants to learn how to vet one of these deals, Marissa is going to take you through exactly what's involved. And we have a 12 faculty members for this.

But I think Mauricio is the only one that gets two sessions, so, if that I don't want that to dissuade you from coming. Check it out. But, I mean, I will. It's always good to catch up. Tom Wheelwright is always there, too, so I think he's going to be there. And probably Will Wright's going to, tell you why taxes are awesome. Yeah, it's a great, it's a great crew and you'll learn a ton. And we have people that come back again and again and again, which is awesome.

So you find all the details at Real Estate Guys Radio.com. And if you if you take that training and you're super good at underwriting, apparently Jay's trying to replace me, so and just, just give you a call. There might be a spot opening up on Jay's team. Nice. Because apparently I'm. I'm just expendable. So, go take that training and then, then then look us up. All right, guys, hey, that was a it was a great episode.

And and just just just to be fair, Kyle has got an employee of the month in our company for the last 47 straight months. Nice. Kyle, what bonus do you get? You get like, a Starbucks certificate or something. Well, so I like to say like I outperform my salary by, an infinite amount. You do. You guys. Thanks for having me. This has been awesome. Thank you for being here this week, for being. Here, Robert. Enjoy the rest of Vegas by yourself. Yeah. And, I had a lot of fun.

It seems like everyone else did. My drink is gone. I gotta go eat the head. Thanks again to Robert for the rest of you guys. I will see you next Thursday.