Scaling Startups with Systems and Authentic Leadership featuring Shannon Harvard

In tandem, you're building the organizational structure and trying to drive your revenue and also assessing the people, because you can't do this with any roadblocks. Right?

Welcome to Driving Growth, the go to market podcast for traditional businesses that are looking to build systems to create predictable revenue. In short, turning their company into a revenue factory. I'm Steve Whittington, president of Roadmap, an agency that builds go to market systems. On today's show, Shannon Harvard. I have known her for many years throughout my career, and she is currently the COO of Overstory Media Group. And what we are going to get today is her unpacking how she has built, from the ground up, a go to market system for that organization. 

SW: Talk us through your journey, how you got from there to here. Right. Let's unpack that and let's, let's hear. 

SH: So thank you for inviting me. You, of course, are my favorite client ever. And you and I enjoyed lots of fun discussions around business, so I appreciate it. We could probably talk for hours. We won't do that, though. So I started in television production. I was an on air producer, and that kind of evolved to, the company was being sold and they're like, hey, why don't we give (it's like the kid who wasn’t supposed to try the peanut butter), why don't we give Shannon some of this stuff? Because, it was a cable company as well. The executive team made more money based on the amount of subscribers they had. And suddenly I was just selling commercial production, and I was selling whatever.
And the teams are reporting to me, and it was literally just I fumbled into it. And then my next role was in general management in media, and so I took over the entire operation. I like the whole thing because I love operational stuff, too, and figuring out the efficiencies. But then I just got into the sales stuff, and I happened to be quite good at it. I'm also a fixer, so going in and fixing things, elevating the people, elevating the performance. I was in really competitive fields, telecommunications and then, broadcast media, where there were no women. I grew up in boardrooms with guys. I was in meetings in London, in Paris with one company. And so I got exposed to a lot, and I think I just work really, really hard.
Probably too hard by today's standards, for sure. And managed to be really good at client conversations. I think the difference for me was even though I was in the C-suite, I was always in front of clients. And you know that because we have that shared experience. And I think you don't know your business unless you're in front of clients and you're not there to just slap them on the back and say, thanks for the business, as most leaders do when they're at client meetings. So I like strategy. I just ended up being really good at driving revenue. And effectively being responsible for people's salaries is something you have to think about, because that's what you're doing. And it would be hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions, depending on where I was. And I was unfazed by it and didn't know any better. I think that's probably the best way to do it. So going in, building structure, fixing things, elevating. And then I found myself, I was in broadcast media, and then I took a couple of years, thank God, to just power down, do some consulting. And then I got lured by Glenn Clark, former premier of BC, as well as the CEO of Pattison. And he said, hey, can you come and help this little company that's struggling? I'm like, oh, sure. I'll just do it. You know, as a contractor. And then I just kept getting pulled in and suddenly it's like, okay, this thing's exploding. And, leadership needs to change and we need you to fix it. So it's probably no big surprise that I'm finding myself back in this situation that needs to be fixed and elevated and having a fun time. But there's been a lot to do. It's a small company. Start ups are very different, and I know that we can get into that a bit too. So yeah, hopefully that helps put the framework on a couple of things. 

SW: So yeah, big, big corporate roles, you know, your background in that respect. That's how we met. We were both with corporate companies and we had a relationship as two leaders, two leaders sort of coming up with strategies together to to drive business. You know, when I met you, you'd already been doing that for a long time. But was that the thing? Was it the client conversations? Was it the shared goals, the creating results or the clients that really was the hook that got you to love sales and love revenue generation? Or was there something different that kind of dragged you, and you said you fell into it by accident, but what kept you, what drove the exits? 

SH: I think you're right. I really love business conversations, and I'm pretty pokey. Like, I know how to kind of get in there and figure it out. And I think that was it. I think I loved it, and it also garnered results. And at the same time, you're coaching your team on how to be with clients and to elevate the expectation there, too. So, yeah, while it was a fluke that I got into it. I was very strategic about how I did it. And I was always opposed to the C-suite leaders not understanding the business from the client's perspective. 

SW: The CEO has to be responsible for your go to market. Doesn't mean they have to do it, but they have to be responsible for that. C-suite has to be responsible. And so you come in and you're the COO, and so you're the C-suite. You're responsible for the go to market. What is the first thing you did looking at this new role about how I'm going to actually get the go to market system to work? 

SH: Well, I uncovered a lot of rocks, really quickly and was kind of horrified by it. And honestly, when you're in a small organization that doesn't have extra resources it is way harder to fix. I think honestly, the first six months was crisis management, so there were definitely cultural issues that were taken. There are no systems built, like there's no sales infrastructure. They had a CRM, but they weren't using it. Like imagine the worst scenario. And that's what it was. 

SW: So okay, so you came in. They had no understanding of their data model, any of those kinds of metrics. The CRM is not recording anything. So the first thing you did is like, okay, we got a CRM. You probably assess the one to have, and so, was the first thing you do like, let's get some data in there. So we understand?

SH: Yeah. Build the KPIs. So I mean in tandem you're building the organizational structure and trying to drive the revenue and also assessing the people because you can't do this with any roadblocks. Right? I had to really look at things in tandem. But honestly things were blowing up constantly. So for six months, crisis management, but in tandem with that, building the sales structure, to start with KPIs, the team, the expectations, you know, what data is being pushed to me.

SW: Yeah. So process, people. Right. 

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SW: So you did all that. And I know you're a person that looks at empowering people and elevating people, and so in this process, how did those two aspects of who you are fit in, if at all? 

SH: No, I definitely had a couple of soldiers beside me and I'm just like, you just have to trust me. I know we don't know each other that well, and you don't have the experience that I do in transformative stuff, but you're just going to have to trust me, and we're going to have really crappy days, and it's going to be super stressful. Because it just is, because the organization was not well run. And it's where it's at, and it's a journey. So, you know, sometimes you just have to. But saying that, Steve, I think it's also do you come across authentically, are you a genuine person, you know, because you can be disingenuous and people are like, yeah, I'm not trusting her. And also you have to be comfortable with, not everyone's going to at first like you. Again, it’s not a popularity contest. I mean, they may never like you, saying they don't know. They just have to know they're being treated fairly, equitably and that somebody really cares about making sure this organization thrives. And, you know, you can't communicate that unless you're doing it authentically. You've seen the one, I've seen it a million times in meetings. And it's a very specific profile that does this. And it just sounds like you can't trust it. It sounds disingenuous and contrived. And so, I mean, I just am who I am. I've been through a lot in my career. I've been elevated a lot in places where women weren't. So I think I've gained a lot of confidence. My goal is to transfer this knowledge to these people who are in the trenches with me.
So when I do step away, everybody has learned tons. Like the person that I work closely with is like, I went to the Shannon MBA school in this past last year and when I stand back and I was listening to her yesterday like talking about her next year. And I'm just like, wow. Like it is incredible how much you've grown. And you know I appreciate it. And you have to be thankful to people, even when they do little things that you know are aligning. And we're a small company, so it's also easy for me to be in front of most or many people and get to know each other. But it is virtual other than when I'm in Vancouver, you know, I see the people face to face there. Or I did my trip to Halifax and I think, you know, this is something that we could talk a little bit about, but it's a challenge to develop people virtually and also to establish trust.

SW: Sure. Yeah, a lot of virtual companies make sure they have the annual get together face to face. That sort of stuff to build those relationships just needs to happen. I do it with my organization. And, you know, I think it's made it like a mandatory thing as a leadership that you have to have some real face time. Even if you have, you know, a virtual culture, so to speak. But that's the new nature of work where it's hybrid, it's work from anywhere. It's the world we live in. So it creates a new challenge for all this kind of stuff, which I believe if you're going to be driving business like back to go to market here, that's where having a platform that everybody can access, everybody can see what's going on. It's in your face. You can't run away from it. You know, looking at things on a weekly basis, that's why you need it. 

SH: But we do all that. We're very transparent with people's results and where we're at. Like, some people might go, oh, I can't believe you're sharing that much. You're like, well, hey, we have to. We want to be transparent. Like if we're going to have a bad moment, then we're going to have a bad moment. But we will get through it together. 

SW: Yeah. I mean I'm working with clients that when we put the data model in place for metrics, you know, sometimes within a few first few weeks, we uncover a cliff that's coming up that's not a nice thing to see, this revenue cliff. It's like, oh, right. But now we know because otherwise you're just going to sail off of it and have no clue what the bottom is. 

SH: You're helping them through it. And also, you know, how to predict that. I think predictability and forecasting in a changing environment is really hard to do. And, you know, maybe at first my forecasts were a little bit too ambitious. Then I'm like, okay, yeah, I know there's way too much going on here. So if you're constantly adjusting but you're constantly looking at it like, you're moving at breakneck speed and you're the one leading this organization, or part of an organization through it. It's really rewarding. But it is one hell of a lot of work.

SW: Yeah, I was thinking about that. Like, so you're adjusting your forecasts, like there's a lot of data that you're having to look at. So looking at where you're at and what you've done in your career, how you've put a go to market system in place that you can measure and manage, and getting things to move up into the right, that sort of thing, what's the future look like, not only for the organization you're at right now, but in general for people that are revenue leaders? Like, what should be the trends you should be watching, what are the things that you think you need to have in place to put up guardrails to futureproof a career or an organization?

SH: Great question. Don't bullshit people. You know, I think leaders are trying to be poised and, you know, like, here, let's just drive the hell out of people. That's not how it works. Like, we're under a lot of pressure, but I know what it's like to be responsible for, you know, millions of dollars to pay for people's salaries inside my organization. Hundreds of millions. So I think I just learned that that's something that I could do. I think people need to make sure, because organizations are so buttoned down, and much more safe for underrepresented groups, but not as open to being able to just, like, vent or I call it vomiting, if you've had a tough day. Sales is a head game. It has high burnout. It's very stressful. I just think the workplace in general is more stressful now. So, you know, putting in place a supportive system that still is highly accountable. But finding a person or a place outside your organization where you can just go, this is what it's all about. And I've been asked to build them. I probably will end up doing that because when I get asked to speak, especially in front of women, they don't have a place to go. So finding that person. I hate the mentor thing. I think it's super contrite and silly. Just, like, find an authentic person that has experience that can help you. And they're there. It's hard to find them, but they are there and do it from outside the organization. I think I've actually coached somebody who is being terminated, you know, a young woman who is freaking out because she didn't have that experience. And someone relayed her to me. And I walked her through it and helped her, you know, breathe through it, because she wasn't being treated very well. And, I mean, there's countless examples. So I could drone on, which I'm doing right now. But there's still a lot of work to do. And if you're a leader, just be authentic, care about people, authentically. You can drive results. And also, as you said, be compassionate, and understand that it's your role as a leader to have positive impact on these people because, you know, I'm going to go away, but my goal is to make sure that the organization is well trained and can take all this stuff on, and I'm excited by it.

SW: What you're suggesting to revenue leaders is, never forget the impact of authentic, transparent human leadership. And, you know, that's always going to be needed. You're always going to be leading, you know, from human to human. And then you're also suggesting to these revenue leaders, to make sure that you have some sort of, I don't like using the word coach either, but I've called them peer advisors. I often like them to be completely outside my industry because they can give a different perspective. You know, my current one is a fellow that I walk my dog with at 6am and, you know, he's a super smart guy with a PhD, right? He has a totally different perspective than in business.
So I have that. So I've taken your advice without having, you know, having received it as well. 

SH: Well, we learn from people. Every interaction is a learning opportunity for everybody. And if you have the capacity to want to take that in it will be helpful. 

SW: Yeah. And the last thing is I think, you didn't quite say it, but your systems are in place so you can be transparent. You can show people, you know, objectively what's what. So be human, be caring, have a system and make sure that you have some sort of outlet to support you, right? 

SH: Yeah. You're really good at this. Good for you. 

SW: I can wrap things back up. So, yeah, you're right. Thanks for your time. Great to have you on the show. And, I'm looking forward to future conversations down the road. 

SH: Me too. Lovely to see you. Thank you so much, Steve.

SW: So that was a jammed packed episode in which Shannon took us through all the different steps that she needed to do to transform an organization. So they had a revenue factory. Well, they're on the cusp of creating a predictable revenue factory. And what we heard are the steps. The first thing you do is get the data model in place, figure out where your numbers are at, and then model out how you can actually acquire the revenue. And Shannon's in the mix of all that. Having put KPIs in place, putting benchmarks for her team to follow so that they can measure progress and coach growth. Fascinating stuff. Amazing story. 

If you'd like what you heard, go to weareroadmap.com/podcast to download the Revenue Factory toolkit in which you will receive mathematical models and a framework for building your go to market system. Also subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. We have new episodes dropping the first and third Wednesday of every month.
I'm Steve Whittington, thanks for listening. Keep building your revenue factory one brick at a time.