On today's episode of gathering the Kings. I think that's very reassuring to my investors that I'm always gonna be honest with them, and I'm not just gonna give a shiny brochure. And paint pictures of rainbows. They they need the truth, and I try and give it to them from the best and the worst case scenario. You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars.
From business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be. We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the real of the real on what it takes to build a and how you too can get there. Through this dialogue, will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and keys like today's guest. Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in. What's up, everybody? I'm Wolfe gathering the Kings.
We're back this week. We've got Emma Powell on the king stage as a queen herself. Welcome to the king's table. How are you? I am really excited to be here. I I love business and just talk about entrepreneurship, and sometimes I spend so much time talking about my little niche with my colleagues. It's nice to be able to branch out a little bit. Come outside. Yes. Well, we are so happy, you know, to have you here.
It it's funny because we've had several queens on the show, but I like to remind, you know, the listeners because being a king in the business is not a masculine thing. It's a mindset. And so the fact that you've already opened up with the fact that you love to just get into it in in the talk, I already know we're gonna have a great talk, so that's fantastic. Tell us, Emma, what kind of business that you're in and and why do you why are you on the stage today?
So I do commercial real estate, commercial real estate investor. I got started in that probably in 2018. It was one of those things where, like most people we sit around and think, oh, we should invest in real estate. But then we never do because something else always comes up. We were kind of stuck in that that that going nowhere loop of thinking we had to pay off our mortgage and save up by you know, pay cash for rental.
But when my husband was laid off in late 2017 and we relocated from Austin, Texas to Salt Lake City, for a job. We sold our house that we had in Texas, and that's really what launched the whole thing because we had been buying new homes and And appreciating rapidly, that last one we had in Texas was a a huge renovation that we've lived in basically, like, lived in a hut for a year while we were renovating it.
And when we sold that one, which was really sad, that was supposed to be like our forever home. It was our little ranch. We're homesteading and and was just like this great little life, but we never had any money, and we never were buying any rentals. And so I was just frustrated that we couldn't do it. So we moved to Utah. We sold that house, and we had this pile of cash. And we were renting, and we had no debt.
So I think what really helped us was getting out of debt and getting ready to buy that rental. When we finally did get the cash, we were ready. We really had no responsibilities you know, paid for cars, piece of junk, you know, rental house. And so we took a little piece of that money and bought our own property. And then I went out and started shopping for Something I could pay cash for, like a townhome. Sure. Yeah. And I didn't wanna do townhome, so I wanted to do commercial.
My husband grew up in a University Town, and a lot of his neighbors owned, like, 14 plexes and things like Chaz, that they rented out to students. So it didn't really seem Like, it was that far out of our reach because we knew normal people who did that. And also in my previous career as a photographer, I always made more money when I was commercial shooting. And so I just think that aiming at, like, a B2B instead of a B2C business Right. For me, made more sense.
I could make more money in the same or less less time, but we just didn't know how to do a commercial deal. So we started looking for this townhouse in cash, and we saw a tomb that we re really liked. And I remember it saying to my husband, like, what if what if we get really crazy? And we split this chunk of cash in two pieces. Put a down payment on On both. And get a mortgage and not actually own it in cash. And my realtor was like hallelujah.
You finally have joined the ranks of a real investor. When you realize that you can leverage debt and it can be beneficial, we don't have a shopping problem. We're very frugal. We don't have a debt addiction. I mean, those things are very real. But if that's not you, then why not use the leverage? And so that started us down a very different path where we thought, well, why don't we just get a huge mortgage and go after a commercial property.
So we did buy a couple of little ones and twos and just things that were popping up I thought we would flip them to make more cash for a bigger down payment on a commercial. But what ended up happening is we kept him as a rental. So we were like, our money pile was depleting instead of being built up. So when we started running out of money, I told my husband. I said, I'm not gonna be able to buy any more of these little properties because I just I can't get rid of them. I can't flip them.
It's such a great appreciating market that we're in and and I'm I'm gonna run out of money. And he said, well, wasn't the whole point of doing commercial real estate was to leverage first of all, you had to learn how to leverage debt. Now you're gonna need to learn how to leverage partners and limited partners and go out and raise some capital. So he really Yeah. He really encouraged me in that and remind me what our goals were.
Because I was getting a little distracted and coming back and just saying, alright. You know what? We wanna be commercial real estate investors. This was the plan. Let's just go big or go home. Started looking at much, much larger properties. Wow. Okay. So so much in that story of different angles that we can go into. Before we do, my question to you is, at this level.
For all intents and purposes, I know we're talking off air there before we got started as far as, like, passive income and maybe a little bit more of, like, deeper reason of, like, why you're doing this. But for all intents and purposes, for the people listening, you've made it. You know? Like, you've got this this killer business. You've you've really done something special. Why continue to push? Why is it worth it? Why do you keep going after it?
Well, for a couple of a couple of reasons, I think we were talking about the difference between paper money and cash flow. And so when you have a high net worth of projects that you're doing, that's not all cash flow. And imagine that you have home equity And everybody's house has gone up a lot in this in this last inflationary period. When you're sitting on this pile of equity, you can't eat Chaz. Can't take that to the grocery store.
You can't go buy a new car with it until you figure out how to unlock that equity, either with a cash out refinance or to sell the property or whether you go and get a hard money lender to look to lend you on it, it which I don't recommend. But if you can get at that equity, then it becomes cash. That's still not cash flow. That's a chunk of cash coming in.
And so getting things invested where you truly have passive income where they're giving you quarterly distributions, maybe you're in a syndication, or you're in some sort of a joint venture, and the property actually starts paying you out of cash flow. That that takes a while because flipping these or renovating these these properties, they're enormous, and it's a big project, and it can take one maybe 2 or more years depending on the size of the property before it's stabilized.
And even after that, sometimes it's a while before you start to see distributions, because we're paying our investors first. Yep. And we're paying ourselves last. So for me, it was more of a yield play. Like, I didn't have enough cash to invest passively. To quit my job or to have my husband quit his job. And so I and I was kinda bored because, you know, we first moved to Utah to have a job. So I was looking for something active to do, and I was looking increase the pile of my cash.
And so I thought, well, I'm gonna be an active investor. I'm gonna go out find deals, sponsor deals, raise money from limited partners, find joint venture partners. And that was the main reason why I was still working. And then now that we're to the point where we have to cash out our equity and figure out how to turn that into cash flow, that's a That's like it's an another business. It's a whole different avenue that I don't know anything about.
And so I've been kind of diving down that rabbit hole this year and figuring out things that will that will cash flow. And it may or may not be real estate related. I I wanna diversify a little bit. We're very heavily into real estate. So that's the main reason that I keep doing it. And also because my husband's not ready to quiz job, he has that w 2 kind of We need the regular paycheck. And when I'm getting irregular chunks of money, he feels very insecure. And so as long as he's working, Yeah.
I would keep working. Mhmm. Exactly. What what is the what's the bigger picture? You know, like, you kinda hinted at it a little bit, but, like, until what? Like, what's, like, really, what is it all unto for you, for and for him? Well, I used to live abroad when I was in college, and I really wanna go live abroad again.
And so I got this idea in my head a couple of years ago, that if we could get enough passive income Chaz we could quit our jobs and actually move overseas to a much lower cost of living area. You still live in Eastern Europe, and we could live there for, I don't know, at least half of what we're paying here. And I feel very I speak a couple of languages, and I just thought this would be like such an adventure. Our kids are homeschooled. Like, let's do it.
And it's it's just been a lot for everybody to wrap their head around. I would have been on a plane 2 years ago and getting a residence permit and trying to run my business online from from halfway across the Wolfe. But, yeah, I've got a lot of kids. I've got husband. We've got lives. We've just got stuff going on. So I'm slowly getting everybody. Family Chaz way. Yeah. Like, the only one who really wants to do it was my oldest daughter who's 24 and Chaz already moved out.
And she's stuck in school, and she's like And she's ready to take an adventure. Yeah. She's like, just you and me, mom, we'll just go do it together, and they'll see how much fun we're having. And and they'll come over. I'm like, but that's really the big goal is to just get enough passive income that we could go live somewhere super cheap as we continue to build the business and just have an adventure. And then when we come back to the United States, who knows what that's gonna look like?
Yeah. But have enough passive income at that point that we can then live in a higher cost of living area without having to work Yeah. 100%. Love it. Okay. So let's get into some of the nitty gritty here about building the business. Tell me you kinda gave me a little bit about how you got into real estate and kinda how what led you to to wanting to run the business.
But I wanna know a good decision that you made along the way Chaz inside of the operation because, obviously, we've got folks listening right now that are they're in the trades. They're in marketing. They're in, you know, real estate. They're they're in all these different restaurants, you know, whatever. And so something that you did along the way inside of the business of real estate that was, like, a good thing for you that was, like, This was I'll repeat.
I wanna repeat this as many times as possible is what I'm looking for. My first thought is to go towards operations, and that's really, really important to be efficient, operator, but at the same time, I know a lot of people who run efficiently run businesses, and they're not really able to work on that passive income and retire an So she's giving Chaz that's the goal. I think the less operations I do, the better.
Yes. The the the best example I can share with you is we were doing a deal I had a partner, and I I felt a little bit insecure because I I was getting more involved in the CEO aspect of things and more big picture and I was really losing my handle on the details on the operations, like like bringing on a financial manager and trusting that he was gonna run the numbers correctly.
I knew how to read him, but I certainly didn't recreate those spreadsheets, other types of things where I'm trying to train the team how to do asset management and all these construction stuff. Because I was trying to just get bigger and you can't have your hands in the details all day. And I was apologizing and feeling and kept explaining, like, this is this is no longer my role is to be down in the details. I'm running the business. I'm not working in the business anymore.
And my partner was telling me about a buddy of his Chaz is just way out there. Huge big picture thinking. He doesn't know what's going on as far as he's just a big, big dreamer, and he looked at me and he said, this guy, it dreams so big that he makes you look like a CPA. And and instead of saying, Wolfe, good. I I look kinda like a CPA. I got a better handle on the details than I thought. My reaction to that was, oh, I'm not thinking big enough. I'm still I don't like Chaz.
Yeah. I didn't wanna look like a CPA compared to that big dreamer. I realized that that's the guy who makes all the money. Is the creative problem solver. So I think when I finally made that recognition and stopped apologizing for not being stuck in the details, And maybe not having everything under control, every plate is spinning.
I'm not juggling all the balls myself was when I really was able to step back and just say, I am building something really cool here, and I don't need to know where every decimal point goes. Yeah. I I I mean, like, mic drop. I think I think that you said it three different ways, but, like, I mean, goodness. From the beginning of you saying actual it's operations. The operations is the key, but not you in the operations. Right?
And and you clarified that right away, which is so good because, you know, the listener right now is thinking, okay, how do I get to 7 figures? How do I get to 7 figures? And and it's like, you just handed them literally the answer on a silver platter, which is get out of your own way. Make sure you have a good team. And the details, it's not that they don't matter. Quality matters. A 100%.
But I love how you said you have to really trust your ability to be the bigger picture thinker and and and also which then forces you to trust the people that around you as well because you realize you can't do it on yourself. So so good. And I just wanted to kinda reiterate that just for the listeners so they could kinda write some notes Let's flip the coin, though, and and tell me about a bad decision that you've made kind of in the same respect, but keeping us away from what you did.
Wolfe, that same deal ended up being probably the biggest loss that I've ever had because we ended up not closing it. So we lost our earnest money. We lost our inspection money, and these these properties this was an institutional size property. It's not inexpensive to go and do all your inspections. Every unit needs to get walked, travel.
And, like, you know, at that time, earnest money was going hard day 1 because the market was so crazy that if you couldn't put down hard earnest money day 1, then you weren't gonna get awarded the contract. And so we did take a pretty big loss on that, and I I had to I felt like I needed to pay back the partners that I brought it into the deal because That's a that's a killer right there.
Part of me wanted to pay them back because I'm a human being, and I just felt really bad about the way things went. But the other part, the more pragmatic business part said that I needed to do it for my reputation because if I want any of these people to invest with me ever again, I better at least make them whole preservation of capital. That is the the utmost. And so that decision to pull out of that deal was looking back on it. In some ways, I'm still relieved that we didn't do it.
In other ways, I see now how I could have solved the problem, and we could have made it more and we could have gone into it and and done it. And I and my problem is is I kept calling the property a ball and chain because it's a five to seven year hold. And that kind of language and that kind of mentality really affects the way that you work. And so I just realized after that deal fell through that I didn't really wanna sponsor more deals as a CEO and a lead sponsor.
I was getting sucked into that that vortex of the high achiever. I have a thousand doors type of thing. And I had to really take a step back after that failure and say, what went wrong? What would I do differently? And Yeah. Am I moving in the direction of my goals? And really after all that soul searching, it was pretty hard. Took a couple of months. I finally just got to the answer, like, no. I went into this for passive income.
And so we would be protected from tech industry layoffs that my husband works in. And then the bigger goal when I realized the potential of this business was to retire him and just really change our our lifestyle. And that did not include being the lead asset manager on 100 of commercial units.
Yeah. I mean, the the clarity that you just described, right, that maybe you didn't have in the moment, but that you have now, but you you the, I guess, the strength of your clarity was given to you through the failure, which is so odd. Like, that happens so many times. Right? Like, that's just how we learn. Yeah. But for you, it comes back to what you said is what you want. Like, if you can clarify or if you know what you want, then all you have to do is decide, does this help me get it?
Yeah. And I I noticed that high level entrepreneurs when you interview people who are uber successful, and you ask them what regrets they have or what they would do differently. None of them have any regrets. And the reason why is because when something goes bad, they say it was such a learning experience. That it made me part of who I am, and it changed my path or I pivoted or whatever. And what ended up coming out of that was much better.
And the example we heard when my husband got laid off the last time was a lot of sympathy, a lot of hopes for us to to get on our feet quickly, but what we heard over and over and over again was this is gonna be the best thing that ever happened to you. And in the moment, it felt like this is terrible. How could people say that? And maybe it will be, but I can't I'm asking what that would look like. But you know what?
That laugh ended up being the best thing that ever happened to us because it forced us to sell that house. So we had a ton of equity in. It forced us to move across the country, it forced me to take a look at my my life and my career and really make a huge of it because I was a photographer before making not that much.
And the same thing with this big loss of this property last year, it really forced me to look at where my business is going, what I was doing if if it was in the line with my goals. So bad decision, but no regrets. Maybe, like I said, I could go back and fix it. Maybe if I could go back and do it differently, I would have done this or would have that at the end of the day. It really pivoted my business in a way that would not have happened otherwise.
Yeah. And I think I think, like, what you have now, that clarity piece, or even the confidence behind the clarity. When you go into the next deal, you know exactly where your line is. Yep. And you know how to how to build the deal around that line. And that's just no longer a question. I I can only imagine. Yeah. And no longer being so influenced by my colleagues. Who are doing things differently and doing things for a different reason because it Yeah. They got their why.
With club. And I I definitely you're you're hanging out with these really high energy, high achieving big thinker positive, positive people, and they're doing some cool stuff. And and they just inspire you to do cool stuff. And sometimes you're doing the wrong cool stuff. Yeah. That's so good. I think that that is a message that every entrepreneur needs to hear and not so much that you shouldn't be aspired to do cool stuff, but make sure you're doing the cool stuff that's right for you.
Yep. And I think that there's so many different ways define cool stuff that you can pretty much, you know, find that is, you know, what that makes sense for you. Okay. So now kind of, like, having this track record, you know, especially with just the mindset that you just gave of, like, you know, kinda having the optimistic turn on, you know, the the failures and turning them into learning opportunities and such.
Do you have any sort of, like, discipline or sort of a process that you follow in order to try to make good decisions now? That's kind of funny because I I'm needing to make a a decision right now and and, oh, I'm hesitating on how to tell my potential partner. I need a couple of days to just to just think about this. And some of my previous partnerships, because every property is like its own little business.
Yep. And I have different partners on each one because we put together a team to make something work. I have communicated my partners before when a problem will come up. I'll just listen and sometimes I'm pausing and thinking, thinking, thinking, and I'm just not getting anything. And so I'll just say, I need the weekend, and I'll go on some hikes. I'll take a lot of showers.
I will go to bed early and just ponder because I think I wake up early and I'm lying there in bed and pondering, doing my meditation. So my process sometimes takes a couple of days, but then I can come back fresh and say, okay. I have 4 ideas let's discuss the pros and cons of each and figure out which direction we're gonna go. So that that being able to step back and and ask for a moment with established teams. I feel very comfortable doing that with new partners.
Sometimes I'm afraid to ask work because it makes me look maybe a little bit slow or even inexperienced because even point, I still suffer from imposter syndrome a little bit. Sure. Well, I think we all do. I I think Chaz, I mean, I've worked for some pretty big names, and and I would say that they they have been honest about Chaz, that same thing. So I don't think that ever goes away, but it's just the reality of what you're asking for. And sometimes, I I love what you said.
Sometimes you don't even need the time, other times you do, and kinda knowing difference of kinda when to when to make a fast decision, when to not the indicator that I heard you say was when you go to like, you're thinking in that moment, make quick decision. But if nothing comes to you, then you're not afraid to necessarily then just ask for a little bit more time. So that's super practical. Love that. Okay. Emma, are you ready for the speed round? Always. Okay. Sounds good.
I was Yes. Let's go for it. Yeah. Okay. So I want one word answers, if possible, but I'm gonna I'm gonna poke you for more. So don't don't be surprised. What is the one metric? If you could only pick 1, In all of the projects that you've done, what's the one metric that you would choose to track forever and ever? P and L. K and y. You cannot run a business with 1 KPI, obviously, but the KPI that we're all driving towards is that net profit. Yeah. Your your margin.
Yeah. If you Chaz track your margin, all the other KPIs are subordinate to that. It and we have lots of KPIs in our business but they're all driving towards that same thing. And the other thing I've noticed is a lot of business owners don't know what their margin is. If you ask them for a P and L, they couldn't produce it. Somebody asked me the other day. He said, do you have a t 12 when you look at a property? And I said, of course, I do. And he said, no. Not of course.
Most people don't even know what a T Wolfe is. And so but in our business, it's the lifeblood of how we figure out what this property is doing. So, again, you can't run the business just on your margin. There are a lot of other KPIs that will help you to get to that margin goal. But that is the goal that supersedes all the other KPIs. Yeah. 100%. Love it.
Okay. What book Wolfe you recommend that someone, you know, I I say 6 figure because we kinda delineate between 6 and 7 figure here on the show, but even for someone here in real estate, maybe someone's newer. They wanna learn more about real estate or maybe just in business. Maybe it's a business book that you'd recommend. But recommendations are kinda difficult for me because find that the books that make everybody say, oh, it's amazing. You have to read it.
It's usually the thing that you're not good at. And you've never really thought about it quite that way before. And the book is really opening this Vista that you didn't know existed. And so for me, that Vista has been communication. Because I really believe that it is the lifeblood of any partnership.
And and when you're leveraging other people's money, you're leveraging other people's skills, leveraging your time, you better be really, really good at putting teams together, and that's not just background checks and and all of that. It's also upping your communication game. And so I just spent a lot of time on that First of all, I'm not that good at it naturally, but because I've studied it a lot, I feel like I am now good at it out of effort.
And so I would say the best communication and leadership book I've ever read for business specifically was multipliers, and it's the ways that we accidentally diminish the people that we work with or that we supervise by things that we think are helpful, like a little bit too much micromanaging, a little too much doing things without letting them know what's going on.
And and it basically shows all the ways that you multiply everybody's special genius so that you can take a back seat as a CEO as a leader and let people perform according to their strengths. But then it goes into you think you're doing a good job, but here's the effect that these common practices actually have on the people that you work with. So that one really did. That was a that was a huge mind blow for me. But if you're good at Chaz. And you've spent a lot of time studying it.
Maybe maybe someone else would be better. Well, I know I I love even just the perspective that you gave of what's what what people are good at, even naturally or not, but if you're good at something naturally or not, if and but if you're not at a certain growth perspective in your business, then there are certain things that you need to be open to. That you just don't have yet. It maybe that you understand it.
You just haven't been able to master it yet, or or maybe you just don't understand it yet. Either way, I think both are are super applicable for for the book that you said. So that's fantastic. Next question is, do you intentionally network with other entrepreneurs or business owners or real estate professionals Chaz type of Absolutely. It is the number one most important thing that anybody in this industry and probably most industries need to be doing with their time.
If you want to scale, you're gonna have to learn how to raise capital. I don't care what business you're in. You have to raise capital. Now most of you are doing it illegally, so maybe we can jump into a little bit later, but networking is absolutely number 1 for partners, for vendors and providers, and for raising capital. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Yeah. The relationship. Right? It it pays it pays things forward every time. Okay. And then I've got one last question here for you.
And and and this would be interesting kinda knowing your background now. I'm I'm kinda curious about your answer. But if you lost it all, Emma, what would you do? Build it again. I know how. Yeah. I mean, I hate when people say I lost everything in 2008, or when they find out I'm a real estate investor and they say things like Oh, yeah. We were really doing well on that track, but then 2008 came and we were out of the game. And they tell me that I am lucky or something because Right.
They tried to sell And so we're I'm getting ready to go into my first recession as an investor rather than just a homeowner. And so if I lose everything in the next couple of years, I haven't lost my network. I haven't lost my knowledge. I haven't lost my experience. And my ability to just stand back up and go out and build it again. So the investor and I run with now the older ones who lived through 2008. Some of them say they lost everything, but they're still here.
They built the business back. So I have no lot of people who have lost everything, real estate can be a fickle mistress, and they they only lose everything if they quit. Because losing everything when people say that, it's usually like, I lost all my money or I lost all my deals. But when you say everything, you mean everything. I lost my personal relationships. I lost my knowledge. I lost my friends. I lost my colleagues.
I lost the ability to reflect on the bad experiences and turning to something good. You never lose everything. You just lose a lot of money. Yeah. And I guess the reflection of what you feel about your money and and how everything is associated to it, potentially, in that moment, determines how you move forward. And so what I'm hearing you say is that Yeah. I mean, obviously, the the measure the money is the measuring stick. Right?
Yeah. But even if it goes to 0, it doesn't mean that it it it steals from the bank. Of all these other things that you've been able to acquire and and press into as an entrepreneur and a successful entrepreneur. So I love the answer. It's always super curious.
Especially with you moving and giving up everything, and that's kinda what I was, you know, like, when I moved from Kansas City to Miami for a short bit, like, it just, like, you know, unscrew the top of your head and then just open it up and then just everything comes to life. And and it wasn't anything like any particular here in in South Florida that was, like, so big other than I just saw a bunch more money. It was just the fact that you could just you could just go.
Yeah. And and the world's not really that big. You know, and and and the fact that you wanna, like, live in Eastern Europe, like, it just tells you, like, it's just like, hey. Let let's just let's just go let's just go try something new. People people don't people who are stuck or people who wanna, like, achieve, like, high levels usually aren't that open minded, I've found. Yep. Because we get really attached to everything, and we get attached to the money, and we get attached to the status.
We get attached to the attention. Because if you're in a group of colleagues like I described earlier, and you're doing really cool things. Every time you walk into a room, they'll be like, what are you working on? What is cool that you're working on? And they wanna share what cool they're working on. You get really attached to those trappings. But none of that really means anything.
And I I will go so far as to say, if you're rebuilding it, probably gonna do it better and faster the second time around. And example I always give is we homeschool our kids and and my kids are all into digital art. I used to be a graphic designer photographer. So I I will watch the frustration when a file gets corrupt or when, like, back in my day when I forget to save something. Right. And I would I would lose it. And I was just mourning this took hours. This took so long.
I it was such a good idea. Now it's I have to start over completely. But the more I did that, the more I saw that the second time around was faster and better. And I looked at the first one that was corrupted or lost, as the rough draft. And so this may be my rough draft investing career. If we hit some really hard times, I will go back. I will build it again, and I will do it better because I've done it. The rough draft already. Yeah. Wow. What what clear and precise perspective?
I I absolutely love it most people would say that that's, like, the ultra optimist. Like, you just, you know, even when the times are bad, you're turning it into good. But, like, isn't isn't that the goal, right, to, like Yeah. I well, I'm I'm kinda one of those people who finds a lot of relief from anxiety, by imagining the worst case scenario. So I love public speaking. Yeah. And sometimes before I go get up on a stage or I do an interview like this, I'm really nervous.
I just imagine the worst possible thing that could happen. Like, I could lose my voice in the middle of it. I could start crying. And my mic could go out technical problems, whatever. But if you're on a stage and nobody's listening, people are getting up and walking out of the room, you fall down and in front of her.
I just imagine that because if it's the worst case scenario in my head, it actually relieves my anxiety because I know it would it would, 1st of all, it all that bad stuff did happen. I've already visualized it, and I just get up, make a joke about how clumsy I am and and keep going. Like, that's as bad as it gets, or I don't get any new potential, money partners from from that exchange. Well, you know what? Sometimes I don't anyway, even if I do a great job.
So just being able to walk away from that experience and say if it the worst doesn't happen, it's gonna be better than that. And so sometimes that scene is negative. Yeah. But for me, I think Tim Ferris actually teaches this. Just imagine the worst case scenario, go there in your head and recognize that even if that happens, it's not that bad.
And another story I heard once was the founder of a Burt's Bees and her her leap to leave Maine and go start this factory in North Carolina was a it was a big deal on the business was doing really well. And what she said about that was I had already lived with my baby twins in my car. I had already been waitressing with my little girls out in the car because I couldn't afford childcare. She said I knew how bad it could get and I knew exactly what to expect.
If this whole venture blew up in my face, I would just go back to living in my car and build it all again. And that was something that I heard back when I was in business school, and it's just really stuck with me. If you have already been there, you actually know that it's it sucked, but it really wasn't that bad. It didn't kill you and you've feared a way out of it, and you can do it again. Yeah. Yeah. A little David Goggins in there where it's like, it's not gonna kill me. You know?
What's the worst case? You know? It's so true too. And and I and I just wanna, like, echo that because, you know, I I even just in regular planning, I was just doing it today with one of my companies. It's like, okay. What's the worst case scenario here? Okay. What's the best case scenario? Yep. Well, I like the best case scenario, but the worst case scenario really isn't that bad. Let's go for it. Right?
And and if you if you have that perspective, it really gives you the confidence or maybe freedom, like you said, just to go ahead and walk out on stage anyway or to to present anyway or to do the deal anyway, whatever the action is. And so many times we get frozen, you know, because of those those moments of, like, what what could it be? You know? So, well, you've just been absolutely incredible. You were you about to say something else? I didn't wanna cut you off there. Oh, sorry.
I just say it's made me also a better capital razor because we can do a sensitivity analysis on our on our returns projections to say, like, if we sell it for this, we can make this return, but in the if things don't go well and we sell it for this, you can expect more of this type of return. And so giving people more of a real Wolfe picture of what to expect in an investment when they put their cash into it it comes from that.
Let's imagine the best case, the worst case, and this realistic case in the middle is what we're shooting for, but it could go here or there. I think that's very reassuring to my investors that I'm always gonna be honest with them, and I'm not just gonna give a shiny brochure and paint pictures of rainbows. They they need the truth, and I try and give it to them from the best and the worst case scenario. Yeah. I I think that was a quote. That we're gonna pull. It was good stuff.
Emma, you obviously know your deal. You know your niche. Like you said, you spent a lot of time there. Thank you so much for gracing us with your time outside of Chaz, but If if someone wanted to connect with you, they wanna get to know you better, they wanna try to invest with you, whatever that that opportunity they might be looking for is, how can they find you? Well, my website at high rise.grouphighrise.group really puts everything together.
So if you go to slash contact, It has a link to every social that I use. It has a link to get a calendar book a 30 minute call. And outside of doing podcast interview, having those 30 minute calls is the favorite thing that I do on my business. So do not hesitate to book a call. We have 2 options for people who wanna get into this, depending on if you wanna passive investor. You don't wanna quit your job. You love your job or whatever. But maybe you wanna quit in 5 years or 10 years.
You just wanna invest your money and collect your mailbox money in return. Limited partner. We have a path Chaz, we can go down there. Or if you wanna be an active investor and maybe start a similar business to what I'm running, I have a free club that just says education and we pool our capital and go into deals together. And then we use that large pool to go in and negotiate with experienced operators because I don't wanna run the deal anymore.
So I'll just bring in a pool of investors we'll go in and we'll negotiate better terms. We may negotiate sliver up the management so that we can have more control and protect the investment. So depending on which direction you wanna go as an active or or a passive partner, we have options that we can educate you and hook you up with either way. That's awesome. I love it. Just just you being here and bringing the the Queenly presence, if I will, you know, to to the audience.
I just I just so appreciate it. And and congratulations. Just like what a what a awesome story. I hope that I continue to get to know you. I think that, you know, doing deals or or even just rubbing shoulders with people like you is what makes me and and and the listeners, obviously, better at what we do, better people, better better spouses, all the fun stuff. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. We so appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you.
And like I said, the network is most important thing is the way for us to meet each other and it's the way for us to meet the people listening. So network, reach out. Let's let's connect and get some stuff done. Exactly. Do the deal. Alright. Well, we wish you nothing but success. Thank you, Emma. We appreciate it. Thank you, Chaz. Thanks for listening to Gathering the Kings. We hope you got a ton of value today and learned a thing or 2 about taking your business to 7 figures and beyond.
If you desire more and want a community around you to help you get there, but want you to go to gathering the king's dot com. That's gathering the king's dot com I want you to apply for our next becoming a king 90 day intensive. We are extremely exclusive by nature as a group. What that means that we're really wanting only the entrepreneurs who take their business and targets super serious to apply.
So if that's you, you think you got what it takes, To level up your business, I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com and apply. And we will see you on the other side.