What's up, everybody? Welcome to Gathering the King's podcast. I am your host, Chaz Wolf. I'm a serial entrepreneur across franchising, construction, real estate, and online education, my mission with this show is to transfer courage to you, our listeners, by sharing the real and raw of successful entrepreneurs, even 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners. Today, we are joined by Tony Lamb, the owner and CEO of Kona Ice, traveling Tom's coffee truck, and Beverly Anne's cookie truck.
Tony went from selling vacuums to building the largest food truck company in the world. But what's truly remarkable about Tony isn't just the success. It's the journey and the heart behind his businesses. Tony's companies have been able to give back over 130 $1,000,000 to communities. So how has Tony managed to achieve such incredible success? Also, while creating an amazing franchisee culture, we'll find out today. We discussed 3 key things.
1, the realities of growing and scaling Kona ice and how Tony actually did it. I can do this until I get it off the ground. Those things all added up to me taking a swing. 2, is everyone able to be an entrepreneur? I never wanna discourage anybody. I always wanna be the encourager and saying this, sir, listen. You gotta know who you are. And 3, the difference between being an entrepreneur and a small business owner. Small business and entrepreneur, 2 different things. Completely.
If you wanna learn what it takes to grow 1 of the largest companies, you're in the right place. Stick around. This is one episode you won't want to miss. What's up, Tony? So glad that you're here, man. Thanks for being here. Hey. I'm I'm excited to be here, Jazz. I really am. Well, Welcome to the King stage. This is gonna be a fun conversation. Not only just because of your background.
I mean, literally, your background here on the screen says so much about your brand, about your personality, but but, Tony, you're you're the largest food truck company in the world. Yeah. I I I did not know that was a thing until I had some some partners had did some research came back and said, you know, you're the biggest in the world. I was like, you mean weight?
And, but, no, it's it's not a, you know, this I think the 2nd place guy is me with coffee, and the 3rd place guy is way down there. There there was a company out of Australia that had quite a bit, but they, they have not done well. I think they got to 4 or 500. I think mister softy back in the day was 4 or 500 back in the day. And that's the they're they're no longer to any size or any scale at this point.
So What do you think is I mean, that's, like, just a very obvious, like, stark gap between, you know, 1700 plus and the the next guy that's maybe got a couple 100. It's just like night and day. What would your response be to the, what the heck, I'm really good. I mean, you gotta be. No. I I don't know. No. I think really trying to trying to understand the business model and what it is and and really lean into it. I think a lot of people that do food truck and a lot of people that do it.
They do it as a bolt on to brick and mortar. Or they do food truck trying to get to brick and mortar. And you see that happen a lot. And I've always said, just just lean in and be the absolute best at food truck and not think about brick and mortar. I had so many people come to me and say, let's brick and mortar Kona Ice. Let's brick and mortar Tom's. Let's, you know, all these different things. And I'm No. It's not really my expertise lies.
It's not really where we have the competitive advantage. So let's, you know, let's do it let's do it amazing in the in the space that we're in. Yeah. Well, I think that there's a lot to that well that you just slightly identified for us, and we're gonna get to that wanna know a little bit about your backdrop first because I'm a millennial, and so your background, I'm gonna get to here in a second, but it it I'm familiar with it.
But there are people listening here today, millennials are maybe even younger that don't even know that you you once not only had to push a vacuum back and forth, but that you didn't buy it from Amazon. Right. So I I gotta hear you sold vacuums door to door. I I've familiar with this industry. It was, you know, super prevalent when door to door sales, but, like, Tony. Tahoe. The vacuum, come on. Give us some how did this work for you? I mean, you obviously successful.
I don't think I had a choice. My dad was a vacuum cleaner salesman my whole life, and I thought everyone inspired to be a vacuum cleaner salesman. That's the that's the pinnacle. It was the pinnacle brother. That's how you that's how you arrived. I said that one time. I said, you know, I had buddies at dads where doctors or lawyers, and they didn't live in a nicest house as we did or or my dad drove a nicer car. And I'm like, okay. That's, you know, that's here on the level.
And and and I wanna be above that. So I'll sell vacuum cleaners. And and, obviously, I get into college, start taking some classes. I'm trying not to be a vacuum cleaner salesman. I get out in the in the in the summer and I start doing it, you know, just just to cut my teeth and to because I've just had it in the blood for so long. And I was just really, you know, lucky and did real well at it.
And then by the time I graduated college, there was no job out there gonna me what I was making selling vacuum cleaners. And I thought, you know, I went to a job interview. And I thought, yes. This is it's pharmaceutical sales, and I'm gonna I'm gonna you know, take my sales experience, take this, you know, one chemistry class I had in college and and this degree. And I'm gonna I'm gonna sell Pharmaceuticals. And the guy said, you're gonna make 36,000 a year.
Of course, this is back in 92 or whatever, and I was like, I'm already making that in the summer selling vacuum cleaner. So I'm gonna have to I left that interview on UK's us and drove to the Lexington Rainbow vacuum cleaner office and and said, what's the highest commission you'll pay me? And and to work. Yeah. I love that. Just that that free, you know, cap. I mean, that's really what sales and even and then eventually entrepreneurship is about. Right? It's I don't wanna be put in a bubble.
And so for you as vacuums, for for me, it was, you know, a plethora of things insurance and advertising and all the things I sold as a as a youngster. But for you, it it was a college degree, but you're looking back, if you were in sales, you didn't use And then I think you've got some references on that towards now even your own children. Can you talk can you talk about that? Yeah. Good. Good. Good research test. No. My kids, of course, went down the road. They got out of high school.
They had done well, and they were gonna go into college. They went into college, took some class and but, yeah, Kona was thriving. They they, you know, I'm watching some of the things they're doing, and they're working here. And there just really wasn't anything. And listen, I'm a big fan of college for a professional degree, you know, accounting degree and medical. Whatever.
I'm not a big probably a big fan of of a very expensive college degree that has a job that won't service the debt that you incur to get that college degree. And I think a lot of people are kinda coming to terms with that. And so so maybe I was a little bit in in front of my time, but none none of my kids have a college education, but they're all doing extremely well.
And I say that, I think they've had, an education the 4 year after high school, but a lot of it was working in Kona or or I've got 2 daughters that are in video and and photography and and they do incredibly outside of Kona. They do incredibly well.
And and I get excited about that because it's not, you know, it's not the traditional path you're seeing more people being able to, you know, wrangle a career, so to speak, and and wrangle a living without that the formal education, but it's it's all for me, it's also the indebted men. I that's what worries me. I think that's why I'd be a good entrepreneur because I've always managed my debt, my personal debt load very well. Yeah. I think that there's a there's a commonality.
Obviously, you're you're industry and then what you're helping your kids with is is different, but there's there's commonality. So I wanna pull out some nuggets there for the listener. You selling vacuums or your kids growing in your business and now even doing their own things a little bit.
It sounds like what what are the commonalities that the listener can take away from, whether it's them particular, maybe feeling less than because they're not college educated, or maybe it's their thinking about their kids and going, oh, I don't really agree with this, but I don't really know. What are the skill sets? What are the things that you got from selling vacuums or what are your kids getting now that are way more important than the paper? Oh, yeah. I mean, just life Listen.
I I think I've said this before talk. I I speak to a lot of universities, and I speak to a lot of high schools. I like high schools better. Like, FBLA groups and things like that. These are younger kids. Getting rated for college or whatever, and they've got all these preconceived ideas of what is is supposed to be like. And my my thoughts on that is, listen, you're just at the starting gate. Your life is about learning, and it never stops.
And you don't get to a point where you're so knowledgeable that you don't have to consume knowledge anymore. I I'm fifty five years old, and I consume knowledge. I mean, like a starving man. The podcast, the books, the the everything I can get my hands on getting to conferences, getting around people. I love getting around smart people. And just gleaning from them and and seeing what, you know, what I can pull off of it.
And and so when I look at that, I, you know, I have I had a buddy that was introduced to himself one time. We were in a business together. And I said, they said, well, where did you go to school? I went to the University of Kentucky and then kind of manipulated the conversation to where he didn't have to answer the fact that he didn't have a college education. And I thought to myself, mistake because it's the smartest guy I've ever been around.
I mean, to this day, she's probably still one of the smartest guys I've been around, and he didn't make it all the way through college. And and so that's stigma of and I think it's I think it's evaporating just a little bit because it it comes down to how many followers do you have? That's the new college education. How many followers do you have, brother? How much content are you producing? Which is fine. Listen. I I love the evolution.
I don't wanna be the guy that's just stuck in a in a rut that that's like, oh, this is the way we used to do it. Man, give me around some young smart people and tell and let me find out what they're doing and And I think this is exciting, but but that stigma of not having a college education, my gosh, I hope it's leaving, and I hope it's leaving, quickly because it's not about it.
It's about the the the learning that you consume and and how you get out there and use the thing that you've you've learned. I say that with a little hesitation because I think I think education can also be can be brutal sometimes. It can be, you know, what you don't know. And that's what I loved about the formal part of it was like getting in there and just getting overwhelmed. I remember accounting just used to kick my tail. And I and the 1st couple years was easy.
I was actually major in accounting at one time and then, you know, took a high level accounting classes. Like, oh my gosh. I it's killing me. And I remember off the planet. Yeah. And I but but my I love the I love the butt whooping of that. I mean, I did. I really did. But even into entrepreneurship, you're talking about, you know, conferences and getting around people. Obviously, gathering the Kings is a mastermind of high level entrepreneurs.
This is this is why it exists is because when you have a little bit of a humble spirit, especially as an entrepreneur, around wanting to continue to learn and wanting to continue to get around other people who have different perspectives. Even listening to this podcast, they're gonna get your perspective. They'd never heard it before. That that is growing. Right? And and maybe a little bit of a butt weapon. You know, at the end of the day, it's that's kinda how we change.
You know, it's either the the what we're going towards that we're that were motivated to go get or it's the fear of what we're running from. And sometimes we just gotta hear it from somebody else and we're like, wow. Or read it in a book or, you know, in a class, whatever that might look like. Yeah. Was it Jensen Huang, the the CEO of Navideo. He just spoke to the Stanford class. He's a he's a Stanford grad. And and I've I've listened to him for years because he's this real humble guy.
And but he just, I think, 30 days ago, and I've got earmarked on my computer. He spoke to the the graduating class of Stanford City. No. You obviously come from means because you just went to the one of the greatest schools. Right. You're around great people. You're you're you're at this elevated level. So all I can hope for you is painting and suffering.
I want you to have pain and suffering because the growth that comes from pain and suffering is the greatest growth, and it's the stuff that sustained you. And and I I so believe in that. And I I I kinda lean in for pain and suffering. Let's start another brand, you know, because Kona was running so smoothly and I'm not almost autopilot. We're selling a couple 100 franchises, you know, a year and things are great. And it's like, ah, let's mix it up. And then COVID, You know?
So Those its own painted suffering. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God had a different plan in mind and and whatever that was. I mean, That was some external pain and suffering that you didn't anticipate, but but I like starting new brands. I like pushing the envelope on what we're doing now because you know, we're just in this niche by herself. And I I like the I like the continual butt whipping. So Yeah. I think, I mean, that's growth minded, you know, ness.
It's it's a We've got this phrase inside of Gathering the Kings. It's grateful, but not done. You know, the ability to Yeah. Sit for a second, be humble, and they're like, wow. Like, I've really gotten a lot from either the my success or my failures, but I'm still and I'm thankful for it, but I'm Right. But I'm still heading There's still more to do. There's more there's more agitation. There's more potential. Right.
I wanna get to some of those sticky points for you, but you're you're kind of beginning piece here, how you even started the brand was a little unique. I think your daughter had a unique experience with ice cream. Yeah. I mean, it was it was real simple. It's just we moved into a new subdivision ice cream truck dumpster on the corner. My kids instinctively run to it. It's a it's a disaster when we get there. You know, the the guys fresh out of prison.
He's selling high end or high very not high end. Good lord. Very expensive products off the truck. And I'm I'm very tickled by, and I laughed a lot during this experience as my kids buy $22 with a freezer burnt ice cream, and he drives away. And I guarantee you, and I've said this, if he turns around and comes back, my wife my kids scream again for it. And I'm what is in this kid's DNA that they understand this?
And and so when I when that hit me, of course, as an entrepreneur, and I'm a serial entrepreneur, and I don't say that bragadociously. I say that almost, you know, as a confessional, hi. I'm Tony Lamb, and I'm an entrepreneur, and that, you know, you know, it's it's not in I'm right there with you. I'm in the same circle. We're in the same class. We gotta keep each other accountable. Yeah. It's it's not something to be really super proud of.
And and, of course, you know, you're talking to people that have made it, but a lot of people and even me until this point had not made it as an entrepreneur. There's a lot of great small business owners Chaz, and and that's that's commendable, but but the entrepreneur part of it, you know, the the spin. But but let me get back to the origin story was Yeah. You know, for a cup several weeks, actually, I just kept pinging my wife and people that I knew.
What if that what if a truck would come through your neighborhood and it was phenomenal? What if it was clean and welcoming, and the driver was uniformed. And you felt safe with it, and the product was reasonable, and the experience was phenomenal. And And people are very well received it. And I was like, I'm gonna do it. And, I mean, I just talked about it for 2 years. And I had a lot of window time with what I was doing currently at the time. I was doing some marketing consultants.
So I was driving a lot. So And so I just thought about it a lot. I would take notes and and and I I remember one day I was heading to Louisville, Kentucky, about an hour a half drive, and I thought Oh, I'm gonna think about the marketing, the initial marketing of of Caribbean ice. We call it Caribbean ice prototype. Too many r's, too many b's. I was looking for a shorter name.
So so I'm gonna think about the marketing, and I remember just taking mind and turning it there and for an hour a half, I thought nothing about how do I market this outside of just driving it through streets? Right. And and so, you know, it's 2000 was a 4 or 5, something like that. There wasn't, you know, Facebook wasn't around these kind of things. You know, so how do you How do you market it? How do you penetrate? And so that was fun for me.
And and then as it and I remember sitting in a restaurant with a with a buddy of mine, and we'd talking about it. And he said, well, we've talked this thing to death. Either you do it or you don't. And I said, you know, I'm gonna do it. And it just came out of my mouth. Yes. And I was like, oh, crap. I just said that. So I gotta do it. And but I had some residual income, so I think that was made it very easy for me to leave. I have no debt. I I I'm I'm very debt avoidant guy. No personal debt.
So I thought, you know, got a lot of flexibility. Even though I had 4 kids, they're in a little Christian school. I didn't have car payments. I didn't have a house, but I didn't have anything that was just bearing me down. Tuition was about the the greatest thing that was But I thought I can do this. I've got some residual. I can do this until I get it off the ground. And and that was those things all added up to me taking a swing.
Yeah. I love I love that that was the calculation to take the swing. Right? It was, you know, all these months, probably potentially even a couple of years, like you said, of of thinking and and and getting research and and planning things out. I loved I loved how you said it. It wasn't just this, you know, like, this idea that kinda just kept coming to you. It was it became an obsession, actually. Absolutely. It's how you described it. Yeah. And so what we obsess over is typically what we get.
Well, it's I think it's a little dangerous too because I think the obsession. You have to be very contrarian in that. You've gotta you've gotta take a couple days and step back and say, Let's look at this from a different lens. And and I've tried to find people that would shoot holes in it. And then when you get to the point, you're like, no one's really shooting holes in this thing, and then the holes that they're trying to shoot just don't add up.
And I can overcome this, and I can overcome that. I mean, listen, the the the big hole was the stigma, and the big hole was that industry's dying. And the big holes they were shooting was like, no one thinks about the ice cream truck anymore. For me, you know, what I saw in my own kids was this. I'm like, I think it's still there. I think, yes, you go 1 more generation. There's no ice cream It's just we're not gonna allow people to drive through our neighborhoods.
You know, I say fresh out of prison. Not that there's not great people that are fresh out of prison. Saying that Yeah. You know, just the the the that look that feel you're not gonna let it happen continuously. And it's gonna just drive it out. So I thought we had it was the right time. The niche was open, and let's let's let's go. So you said your van is clean. It's it's obviously colorful. The driver's uniformed.
All these things that you built because it's the opposite of what you experienced that day with the ice cream truck man. And and and I I got a vision in my mind here of the white van. It's kinda beat up. You know, the side door kinda like this kinda opens. You know, he's and he's got this big old, old kind of, rusted freezer. Right. And he's throwing out, you know, $12 snicker bars. It's like Right. Jeez. I I everything you described, I've experienced.
I think everybody listening probably has experience, but that that little bell goes off and you're like, oh, it's the ice cream truck. Right. But but I wanna segue into the brand because I think that's obviously did an amazing job, but How can this correlate to the person listening right now who maybe is beginning? Maybe they're in the 1st couple of years. And and they're trying to set themselves apart.
How much did that make a difference when we're talking about the way that your truck looked, the the position of the colors, the name, the the the the uniformed driver. Like, a lot of people maybe don't think these things are important anymore because when you go to McDonald's, they're just all sloppy today. How does it how much does it actually matter still?
Yeah. But if you look at the people that are doing incredibly well and and just the little nuances of maybe like a chick way where these customer service is at a is at another level. And and so, listen, And that's the problem with being an entrepreneur is is because you're obsessive and you go through this thing, if you don't have that other lay lens where you're trying to say, okay. What's the problem?
What what makes us what's what's what differentiates what makes us to where we can have a a market, you know, be a market leader in this. I I don't wanna make another hamburger. I don't wanna make another There's too many great people doing it. Yeah. I'm very competitive, but I don't wanna go up against those guys. I've been doing it for a long time. And you worry about the the egotism of that of saying, oh, I can build a better hamburger at scale.
Of course, I can build a better hamburger in my backyard. But at scale at, you know, all the different things have happened. That that's a learning curve that that's pretty amazing. So So looking at it from a perspective of, you know, is there a niche? Is there a place for me to be able to stick my foot in, be able to make a living? And that's that's the big thing is is how am I gonna monetize this to the level that I can make a living?
More so for me, it was it was because I had I felt like I had about 3 or 4 years of residual income, no debt that I could I could get this thing off the ground. And And that gave me a lot of fortitude. That gave me a lot of motivation, but so all the profits that would come in hired more staff more staff hired, you know, made the the job better and made the the experience of owning a Kona ice franchisee better.
And so that was able to grow without me sitting on top having to take, you know, a couple $100,000 a year to pay my living. And that's where a lot of people getting themselves troubles is they just need so much money and in the beginning. So it's tough. You gotta, you know, you gotta bootstrap it as everyone calls and things like, or you get a big investor spend their money like it's water, you know, either way, either way, I wasn't willing to do that.
I did have an investor, but I was more conscious about his money than it was my own. So it but it it worked at the end, Chaz, when you when you get down to it and you can you start seeing the horizon. And I remember thinking, you know, the first three or four people that bought trucks were having as much success as I was. And a lot of times, I'm a good salesperson. I'm a talker. You know, I could walk into a school, a little league, whatever. I could get the I could get the account.
I could get it. But when people that were like, not me were coming in and being sick testful. This guy down in Georgia had come in, and he and he wasn't, you know, a type personality, and he's driving neighborhoods, making 2 or $300 a day. And he's like, Hey. I'm surviving. And then he gets one event and then another and then another and then he's like, you know, now he's got the same guy to this day bought truck 20 something. And now he's got, I think he's got 6 or 7 franchises.
He's got a coffee franchise. He's just his whole family's employed. You know, the whole thing. And and he wasn't an entrepreneur as much as he was a really good small businessman. You know, I I would say the entrepreneur in that story would be me. But the and I'm not being egotistical, like I said, but it's but small business and entrepreneur, two different things completely. Yeah. And I I definitely wanna get to that because I think that's a whole another thing that could be very valuable.
Let's let's stay here on this you know, couple 2, 3 years you're getting started. The the nugget that I'm pulling out that I wanna give it to the listener before we move on is because you kept your expenses low and you were you know, basically conservative in the way that you either spent and or needed personally, you were able to grow the business as a business from the beginning before it was maybe a big business. You you were doing things to grow it.
And so you were spending money where maybe other folks weren't. You were making them look nice. The the the caliber of people, the caliber of franchisees, the experience of all that. You were investing in that early. What was the snag in that? Cause that sounds like a 2 or 3 years of, like, It kinda popped, but what was the behind the scenes? Maybe nobody knew about it. What was the what was the thing that you were really struggling with?
Is that I had to have in my local operations when 2 or 3 trucks in Northern Kentucky, and the local ops used to have to it used to have to do well so I could pay the payroll of the people sitting in the office talking to the franchisees. And and so, you know, I'm working 9 to 9 to 5, you know, working on the franchise part of the business. And from 5 until 10.
I'm in a truck driving the streets, trying to, you know, keep my labor costs down, but also learning the business more so and and and doing this. Those are the long, long days. And and my wife always jokes. She said, you Tony got into the got into this business so he could spend more time with his family because I was on the road a lot. And then I I started the business and I was like, I'm I was working twice.
But I was able to put my kids in the truck with me, and they just told the story that my my youngest daughter, who's twenty one now, She was in a car seat in the front of a Kona truck, and I'm driving through the neighborhoods. And people are like, oh, she's adorable. And I said, yeah. I picked her up at the last stop. I just don't know what I'm collecting children. I think that was the opposite, Tony, of what you were trying to create. Okay?
It was a it was an uncomfortable couple seconds, but then they realized this is my daughter's. So it it yeah. I I, you know, always always just let it hang in the balance there first. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I kinda like the listen. I wanted to be engaging, and I wanted to be different. And I wanted to have that that experience. Life is too short, and it's too funny for us not to call those things out. And let's just let's just have I'm a forty year old man driving around an ice cream truck.
My buddies are making fun of me. You know, Lammy used to drive a nice car. We're a nice suit. And I'm like, pretty nice truck. Don't you think it's a pretty nice truck? And and I got a whole wide insured on. So this is a nice suit, and I'm doing what I wanna do. And I'm I'm taking a swing, man, and I was making good money. Life has always been, I've I've been one of those lucky guys. I was always figuring out how to make money because like you, I could sell.
And and so if you sell, you can you can do a lot. You know, you can you have no inhibitions of talking to people or I think that's going back to the vacuum cleaners. What I learned from that is just it's a numbers game. Rejection is part of life. You know, and and that's it's it's an it's an integral part of it. So I like, you know, knocking on thirty doors to get into one house. Selling 1 out of 30.
So if you do the math, if you're knocking doors, you gotta knock 90 doors to put a commission in your pocket. So let's get started early. In the day. It's getting all knocked now. Yeah. Let's get them let's get them knocked out. So it's it's tough business, but, you know, but I look like this in high school. So I was used to rejection. You know, it's like it's like, oh my god. You wanna go out? No. Alright. What about your friend? Yeah. I tell I I experienced the same thing in school.
There was some some gals that I asked out a couple times and and got the no, but I even tell that my to my wife because we got we got married pretty young, and we met in high school, actually. And I told her that that she's throughout all the years of all the rejection, you know, even even as we're married, we have a great marriage. She doesn't actually reject me very often, but the reality of it is is that there's that's just part of the game. I mean, that's okay.
I was like, I was thanking her, really, is like, look, I'm super tough because I get rejected every day, because that's just the way that it works. The way it works. But listen. That's that's the pain and suffering that he's talking about. That's right. Let's get a little pain and suffering in life. Hey, Kings and Queens. Jazz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort.
We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too, so we would love if you would like comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things on social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify.
We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible. Together, we are building a community of like minded on who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this. Let's help each other grow. You you kinda mentioned something there around mindset, you know, the My buddy's making fun of me. You know, I used to drive a nice car.
I used to drive, you know, wear a nice suit, but but it was different. But you and your mind immediately changed that, or maybe it wasn't immediate. Maybe that's hindsight now. You changed it to, well, I have a nice truck. And isn't it colorful? And isn't my Hawaiian shirt suit nice? And Was that was that internal that that was happening to you?
Was there was there a moment in time where you were just, like, you kinda felt the weight of your buddies and everyone around you kinda making fun of you and and that or was it just like from the beginning? Well, I, again, going back to vacuum cleaner salesman, I never had a glorious job. I mean, I've never I worked the gap. I think that was most my most credible job when I was in high school as I worked with the gap. And so I never really cared about that. That's another thing.
You know, you gotta you gotta get rid of stuff like that. If you're gonna be an entrepreneur, you can't you can't you can't hang on stuff like that. You you you really can't. If you believe in what you're doing and what you're doing is good and and and wholesome and moral and and has a level of integrity, then you can live there and at the end of the day. And I I know my friend these come in.
And they're like, you know, I'm going from being a computer programmer or I'm going from being a nurse or I'm going from being this too. I'm gonna drive a coated truck around the neighborhood. And I'm like, Yeah. In the very 1st 30 days, your friends are gonna wonder why. But in a 6 months from now, you're gonna be the kona You're gonna be the person that's, like, the most popular person in the eight year old demographic. You're gonna be the most popular person.
In your community a hundred times over. And and I've got story after story after story of people saying, I'm the kony guy. I'm the kony lady, and I love it. Because now I'm just I'm loved in the community. I'm like, that's a that's a pretty cool, pretty cool place to be. I think so as well. Let's talk about the this this small business owner versus entrepreneur.
You know, we kinda, you know, dabbled on that a little bit, but I guess maybe it probably stems from the question of Can anybody in your opinion be an entrepreneur? Is it something that's inherent? Can it be learned? Is it do people struggle with it? What what are your thoughts on that? That's such a good question. And I I struggle with this. I never wanna discourage anybody. I always wanna be the encourager in in saying this. Listen. You kinda know who you are.
I think my biggest pet peeve in life, and I've realized this probably in the last 5 or 10 years, is people that aren't self aware people that have these nuances in their in their personality, and they're just so unaware of it. And you're like, come on, man. Have you do you own a mirror? Do do you can you look in the mirror and understand you don't have this skill set, either work on it or just accept you don't have it and and move on? I I just get so, so frustrated rated.
I know what my what my failings are. I know I'm not super organized. I know I'm not I my my thinking scattered sometimes. I worked against that. You know, I'll sit down and have I'm very intentional with my alone time to put my thoughts together. I come into the office every Sunday night for 2 or 3 hours and lay out my entire week because you come in Monday morning, you become a pinball and you're bouncing all over the place. And so that's my weakness So let's work hard against it.
So sometimes entrepreneur, and I'm I'm using that term lightly. And and they they go in. They I wanna be an entrepreneur and I wanna start my business from scratch. Okay. What experience do you have starting from scratch? I I I think mentorship and internship is so, so important.
And we're and we're missing that in the college education conversation is that his his man get into a mentorship, get around people, get the the cost of education is expensive, but it's not always writing the check to the college. A lot of times it's like working for 15 bucks an hour for a company and you're underpaid, but you're learning a tremendous amount That that the difference in what you're worth and what you're earning, that's the cost of education.
So look at it as that and make sure you're you're you're spending your time realizing, hey, I'm spending a ton of money getting educated here. So I better walk into the job every single day and looking for that education because I'm not getting enough money to justify working here. So so that's kind of the mentality a little bit. So when I say an entrepreneur, is a dysfunctional psychopath narcissist that thinks he's so smart that he's got a better answer for everything, and he's gonna Yeah.
He's gonna do that. I I worry about that, but there's so much great room for someone who can follow a narcissist and say and say, hey. I can do what he's doing. That's why I love kind of franchising because it's putting the business model out there. It's this it's this distilling of a good business model. You hand them a great recipe book, and you say, make it like this and you will do well. Yep. And and so I think that's kind of kind of the journey, but no, Chast answer your question.
Not everybody is an entrepreneur, and I worry that, you know, I I got asked to say this real quick. I got asked to be on the board of a university and say, our biggest, our fastest growing major is entrepreneurship. And I'm like, I have a problem with that. I don't think you can teach entrepreneurship. At the college level. I think, you know, if you wanna if you wanna focus on mentorship and and interns and things like that, yes, but but to teach somebody to entrepreneur.
Yeah. You know, in a classroom? I mean, yeah, there's some basic stuff, but I think can get that anyway. Accounting, get some accounting, get some finance, get some whatever, some science. I don't know, but but not entrepreneur. It seems like it's it's a Yeah. It's a little bit of an oxymoron that we go to a classroom to to to to learn how to run a business.
You know, so what I'm what I'm picking up especially since, obviously, you've got a franchise system, and that was my first business as well was was buying into a franchise system. And so I think that the the ability for any personality background, you know, desire of a person can step into a model like yours. And and be successful.
Yep. And and they don't have to have some of those, like, really exuberant, really loud entrepreneur type, either personality traits or characteristics or or skills even. They can still be successful doing their own thing. They are an entrepreneur. They are business owner, but but that person's gonna have, you know, maybe 1, 2, 3, you know, maybe have trucks or in in in our industry. It's, you know, maybe 1 or 2 locations, you know, retail locations. And that's about how it goes. Right?
Like, you just look across and it's like, okay, everybody's kind of a onesies and And then you've got the few that kinda stand out to have the 25 trucks or the, you know, 150 pizza locations.
And those guys, that's kinda how I always kinda thought of myself in that system was you know, e even though I was operating the business, I saw myself as more of an investor or an entrepreneur working working on, like, a a global piece as opposed to, you know, this one singular little mom and pop, expression, which there's nothing wrong with that, but that's what I'm hearing. You say the difference truly is as a small business.
You kind of in it doing the thing versus, you know, building something that's gonna be much larger than you at some point. Correct. And there's no and both of those things are noble. They're necessary. They're noble. It's it's worth the journey. I was in I was in a Kona college. I'm I'm doing a and a at the very end of the college. There's a young lady in the front, and she raises her hand. And she's very introverted. And she says she says, how does somebody with my personality?
Make it in Kona. This is day 4 of college. So we're getting ready to graduate. They're gonna get in their truck and drive home. And she says, how do I do it? And And I had to be honest with her. I said, I I can't speak from that that perspective, but I can give you ten people that are introverted, that are succeeding wildly in Kona. And I I got done with that that session. I walked up to my office I got Karen Mowry's email, and I put those 2 women together.
And I said, Karen, this is a a lady who she's excited about the business, but she's introverted And Karen is extremely introverted, and she's wildly successful. And she says a lot of people wanna be on the stage, but I love being beside the stage and watching. And and and and and and I can see the stage. I can smell the stage. Know, this is the kind of thing. She says, but I do my best work on this side of the stage. And I I just kinda love that.
And those two ladies connected, and she's been extremely helpful to her. And and so I'm lining those people up because I can't look at her and say, you know, what you you know, what you ought to do, just not be introverted. Be extroverted. You know, like, it doesn't work that way. You know, you should be taller. That's what you should need to be. You should be taller. It doesn't it doesn't work that way.
So put like minded people together because we're we're being successful at all different levels of the business. And you don't have to be super psycho, you know, extroverted. It's funny. I watch one of my kids. We have a cookie bake every year and, you know, Christmas cookie bake. And I've got 4 kids. There's so cool. And they're different. Everyone is different.
And and the one that I I find the funniest, I guess, is over there making And we all have this competition, and then we eat the cookies. And we say, okay. This is the first number one cookie. Somebody tries to bring a different recipe every year. You know, good competition. And I look over that, Mike, at the at my son. I'm trying to hide his name. Anyway, he's over there just he's pouring flour into the cup. It's overflowing. He throws it in the bowl.
And I mean, he said, he's not an exact recipe guy. And I'm talking to him. I'm like, you gotta follow the recipe, brother. And he's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am. I am. And I'm like, You are not. There's a heaping mound over top of the cup. You know, you're you're pouring the vanilla in just, you know, you're just pouring it in out of the bottle. He's like, why just it needs a dash of vanilla, and I'm like, it it doesn't work that way. Resipes are meant to be followed.
And and so I realized that's something interesting about people. And this guy's got my my son's got these great qualities. He's so, he's so extroverted. He's so people person, people love him and draw to him. He's funny, but doesn't follow a recipe to save his life. And so I wonder about is he gonna be a good franchisee? Is he is he gonna be a good operator? Because Right. I don't know. He he might need to be in a different role if he's gonna you know, do the recipes that way.
Does that make sense? A 100%. I think it's great. We use a we use a system called Culture Index. I mean, we you know, couple clients with it. And and, of course, I've, you know, done it with my wife and and all of our friends. And it's interesting when you can understand that nuance right there. You're like, okay. Cool. Like, he like you said, even about yourself, I'm not that organized.
Does that mean that you just threw up the well, I'm not organized flag and you just lean into being a chaos mess? Know you come in on Sundays and you organize your your week to the best of your ability. But because of that, I bet you've put some really organized people over you.
And I bet you there's some tasks that are pretty organized maybe around that accounting stuff that you're talking about that you don't necessarily touch on a regular basis, but maybe a report is given to you by someone highly detailed. Right? That's how we combat these things as long as we can be self aware. Sometimes it's an assessment that us take that. But sometimes it's a parent, right? Like, how many times we've looked at our killed children and been like, wow, you're really good at this.
Or this is, an area where we might need some help, you know. Right. No. I I I love that about, you know, the people. And and I just have that microcosm in my own family. That, you know, this my daughter would follow the recipe to the nth degree. And then if it doesn't turn out perfect, she can blame the recipe She doesn't have to accept the responsibility that, hey, it's not very good. And and Jonah has made some cookies that have been, like, terrible.
However, he's won the competition a couple times. He's like, see, see, and I'm like, that was luck, brother. That was pure luck. There's there's no skill involved in that. But but, no, I I love that that differentiation. So So trying to set up a system where everybody can thrive, you know, so you have broad recipes and and franchise and to some degree. I mean, you gotta maintain. You gotta you gotta maintain the brand consistency. We have to.
So we gotta live there and and that experience for the customer is gonna be good, but the experience for the employee doesn't always have to be the the experience for the person in the truck communications, the operation standpoint, all that doesn't have to be exactly the same. We want the the the brand promise to be, you know, a safe, great experience for the for a customer walking up to the truck.
Think that there's a lot of even wiggle room in that type of thinking for someone who's maybe a little bit more entrepreneurial than than a small business owner we've kinda defined these, can still step into your system, know that there's, okay, like, there's a brand promise and there's an experience for my customers that I need to deliver on, and that can't be wavered. But, like, kinda how I go about doing that can kinda be my aversion.
And so I think that you're catering to not just, you know, the operator, but also the premier who wants to come in and maybe get a little get a little feisty with a couple trucks and do it do it kind of in their own way. I wanna ask you a question about franchising someone's listening right now, they've maybe had an an idea in their mind around, I'm gonna franchise my concept. What would you say to that person? Would you encourage them? Would you say run the other way?
If they are gonna do it, is there something they should be looking at first? What's their what's your thought? Well, I think it goes back to the mastermind concept is a little bit is because if you you license it and you you make everybody follow your pre prescribed thing to a tee, you're not you're not getting any add to the deal. You're really not getting the the mastermind effect. And I think franchising allows more of that. I what I realized early on is I don't have all the answers.
Real quickly, I realized that there are some people that are much better at this business and and at this level than I am. And they've done really, really And no one I don't think anyone can outwork me, but far as, you know, really understanding the customer base, and it's the PTA president and the youth and the the summer camp these people in the community, and and that wasn't me necessarily. So they know they speak that language. This is why they could do the business.
They could connect better and I loved bringing that all together. So they would be able to teach the rest of the franchise system. Hey. Here's the way you approach a summer camp counselor. Here's the way you approach a PTA president. Here's the way, you know, these kind of nuances that I didn't have, and then again, back to that mastermind effect, what I think franchising does. The problem with franchise, it's very expensive because you have to license through every state. You gotta go through.
You gotta have an FDD drafted. You know, I've got a FTD that started out at 49 pages, and now it's probably four hundred pages. It's it was so easy that everyone could understand it. Now It's not as easy to understand. It's reactionary to to the bad elements that sometimes get in your system that say, you know, hey. I wanna sell blank off the truck. You're like, okay. Put a paragraph in here that you can't sell blank off the truck, you know, or whatever.
You say you've gotta sort monitoring and and then the different nuances of the state. You know, some of the states are very heavily regulated for this. So you've gotta, you know, I remember California. I think we added 40 or 50 pages for the FDD just to just to them alone. And so it became this this construct, but but it's expensive. And we you you we pay attorneys and you have people that write it and you go through all the off.
So it's a it's a tough way to to start, but it's it's not I say that. You can write an FDD for your state. You can go and get it approved, and then you can start small and and do that. I had a buddy who was an attorney who said, hey, I can just cut and paste. I'll put one together for you for x number of dollars. This is true story. He put it together. And he's he's like, I'll do it for, like, 5 or $10,000. I said, oh my god. Thank you so much.
Cause I was getting quotes for, like, 50 to $100,000. So he cuts and pastes it, puts it all together. We turn it we we send it to the very first applicant. The guy gets an attorney and they just rip it to Shretz and he comes back. And Alan Griffith is his name, and he comes back. And they those attorneys just go back and forth for like a and they finally get it all done. And Alan said, yeah, I made about 70¢ an hour doing that.
He said, this is a disaster, but he got the core done, then as you submit it to the states, the states have changes. So we've obviously since then have contacted with lots of attorneys gotten it done right, but I've spent I spent a lot of the profits of the early days dialing all that stuff in. And so it's challenging to do it that way, but you have to have the understanding as you're looking for help. You're looking for input.
If you wanna license it and control or license it actually is less control or if you wanna keep it all to yourself, and I'm gonna I'm gonna open up the next city, and I wanna hire everybody individually, and I'm gonna do that. Oh my gosh. Then you you really are a narcissist, and you really are a psychopath. That you want. You think you can control people at that level. I just want the input from great people.
So Yeah. That that concept that you're referring to the mastermind principle, you know, is defined in in thinking go rich by Napoleon Hill. Napoleon. It's 2 or more 2 or more minds working in harmony together onto the into something specific or a definite chief aim, as he says.
What I mean, you just gave a a pretty, general aspect of how your franchise system has has operated in that, but what comes to your mind when you say, like, I I operated in the mastermind principle here, and it changed everything for me. What what's an example for you on that? Well, my dad, probably. My dad was a president of the vacuum cleaner company that I used to sell vacuum cleaner for, and and he had kinda retired. I had moved on. We were doing different things.
And but here's a guy who was in his seventies, who was brilliant, and I got to I got to garner and glean off of him. From that perspective, but he didn't understand the nuances of today's business as much as he understood the the big thoughts of, I mean, he ran a huge company. And so I I was able to clean that. There's all the people that are hired in the early days were definitely the because I always hired into my weaknesses.
And I always hired into, you know, the accountant, the the the the organizer, the administrator, there's people that have the the, like you said, the organization skills or the accounting skills or whatever that I hired into my weaknesses continually. And and that is the mastermind. That's the definition almost of of master line. And I let me even take a step back and not to throw a shout out. But what is it? H Jackson Brown junior or something.
He's a he's a famous I had this thing hanging in my office for years, and it says the keys to success or the happiness keys to happiness keys to the state. It said, Mary the right person this one decision will affect 90% of your happiness or misery. Yep. And I was very, very lucky in the fact that I married the right person 31 years ago.
And the mastermind effect there is her gifts and her skills of this this caring, this kindness, this this love that she has is is almost void in my I don't wanna say it that we're like I'm a mean guy, but I've heard her I've heard her work with the kids and say, well, your dad's this way because, you know, you know, your dad's a little bit more cursed and he's or terse, whatever the word is, and he's a little more abrupt, and he's a little
more, but that's his his strength is what has had him be successful in business. He's very direct. He's in your face. He doesn't let things lie. He attacks every point, and she doesn't. And and I think going back to the very foundation of mastermind effect is that that is, man, marrying the right person. And then you're your your foundation is set.
And then, again, going back and I keep I keep retroing this too, understand who you are and what you don't have higher end of those things, and let's get this job done. Yeah. So powerful. I'd I spoke actually with my my bride, Julie, couple months ago, we spoke in in Nashville, and our talk was the ultimate mastermind. And we spoke about marriage.
And and everything that you just said, you know, the the detail of that and how actually your the the nuances of your differences and also strengths made you each better because you were each there for each other and and pressing each other in those ways. And so that's pretty powerful. Can you imagine Chaz us being left to our own devices for this world. I mean, just someone not sitting there who loves you truly, who's speaking into your life, like, hey. You're out of control.
Hey. Okay. Think about this again. You know, look at this in a different light. You've just you've gotta have that. And whether it's a whether it's a spouse or someone that you love dealing or a family member, Someone needs to always be able to speak truth. The great emperors of the day had the people that would whisper in their ears. That's right. The the truth of life. It's important. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. You're you're 100% right.
I've I've often said that there was things that I've done along the way that, you know, Julie has guided me on some things I listened to, some things I haven't. I look back now. I'm like, oh, yeah. Probably, I, Yeah. Yeah. A couple of those. I try not to do that anymore, but Right. You're a 100% right. Do hell have that perspective in in that type of environment because that person knows you. Just so more you know, clearly or or in-depth.
But to have those examples in employees or franchisees or other, you know, of course, other mastermind members, whether in a group or or, you know, go into a conference and meet other people for the first time. Like, you can, you can, have this effect in different ways, but it's about perspective. It's about you know, agitating your thought and seeing things a little different and being able to adjust accordingly. We have one last question here for you.
I got the same question, typically end with Tony, I wanna know if you had the the chance to roll back the clock and you're talking to younger Tony and you you just wish for something in his ear just briefly. What do you tell him? Jess is such a good question. I think I would say I got gotta say personal. I I know you want, this this podcast is meant sometimes to be business themed.
And you'd say, well, do this or do that or from a business perspective, but from personal perspective, I would say forgive quicker. You know, you you hold these grudges. I would forgive quicker. I would try to be in the moment more. I think I watch I watch people take pictures of everything and never in the moment where they're at. And you're like, man, breathe in the air. Take a take enjoy that.
And I as I get older, obviously, that's more important to me that I'm like, I don't wanna take a picture of this and look at it 10 years from now. I wanna live it right now. So so I I think that would have been help ful to be, you know, you're running so fast. You're blowing through things. You're you're you're sacrificing relationships. You're sacrificing interpersonal communications because you're just so driven in the early days.
And I say all this with a little asterisk on it because I would also say don't change a thing because I love where I'm at right now. I love how I've gotten here. I I I I really do. I mean, humility. I mean, I'm a very humble guy, and I say that. I say that. Isn't that not the funniest line? I'm a humble guy. I'm the most humblest. But when has anyone ever said more humility is not good? It's just no one's ever said that because you have to realize who you are in this world.
I just keep coming back to that. And and and the frailties that you have, and I think people guard against them sometimes and that they work to hide those or they work to overcome those. And the reality is let's just lean in on those things. A little bit. And and, you know, you're always trying to get better, but but the humility of life, the longer I live, the more the more humility I get because I realize how much I'm not.
Yes. I've got 1800 franchises and 2 brands that are coming, and life is so good right now. I'm so blessed beyond anything I ever ever ever imagined. You know, you remember those times, Jasmine, you're like, I hope if I can get to this amount of money, then I'll be happy. And then Yeah. Okay. Then you set the bar a little higher. You set it a little farther. If I can get to this level of, you know, if I can see the finish line and and coast on in.
But then when and I've been blessed enough to get to some levels, and then you start thinking, well, how can I change the community and the world around me and other people lives with this? I've got fifteen people that work here that that are just laying it down. And I'm thinking if I don't finish this journey without those people having experience, you know, whatever, being a millionaire or or they're just ultimate joy in life then I've failed miserably.
I I've gotten to a point where I've been blessed beyond anything I imagine. So I say bless me and my or are you over this? I hate saying blessed, even though I have strong faith. I wanna say lucky because I don't wanna say blessed other people say, well, I'm not blessed, even though I'm living a a moral life or a life of integrity. And so I'd I'd never wanna, yeah, never wanna, you know, discount that. But I I I do feel there's a lot of smart people. There's a lot of hardworking people.
Not every one of those people get to a great place in life. You know, people work hard all the way to the end. People very smart you know, work all the way to the end and don't experience some of the successes that other people have. So I feel like I'm very lucky to have experienced the success that we've had. Try hard and it'd be very transparent. I tell everybody what I'm thinking. I'm I'm open to criticism, you know, not too much. I mean, it's not not not personal. I'm only a half narcissist.
I'm losing my hair. I've got a little extra weight on. You know, I I I say the wrong words sometimes, so just be be easy. Be easy other criticism, but but but but very respectful of that. So I've I've loved the so what saying that to the young, Tony, is man, don't change a thing because I love where I'm at right now. Yeah. So powerful. Yeah. That that that place of good people not having a a good life or even the opposite, bad people having amazing success. Right. Right.
Has been an interesting, topic, and that's probably for a whole another podcast. But Yeah. But the the truth is is that their success principles, no matter moral standard. And Yeah. You know, there's there's good people who just, you know, don't have the right recipe. And and maybe there's some luck in there too. I would probably agree with that. There's probably just some some cadence there to that that cookie recipe that we call success Right.
That some people are just doing a dab here and a dab there and not measuring properly. Right. Tony, you you are a man of of not only just a lot of success, but a lot of wisdom. And I appreciate you sharing here today. Obviously, the listener is interested in in Kona Ice. You've got 2 other brands coming down the pipe that are in in development and growing. If they want to jump in or figure out how to get involved with you or you maybe just even connect with you somehow, how can they find you?
Well, obviously, konahyphenice.com is our main site. Traveling Tom's coffee is it's gonna be open to the public. We're only selling it right now. We're sold 150 franchises. We're gonna sell another 150 only to Kona franchisees, but October 1st, we're gonna open it up to the public and let people buy that that aren't Kona franchise disease. Then we've got a a prototype concept called Beverly Ann's. By the way, traveling Tom's named after my dad. Beverly Ann's named after my mother.
And Beverly had she made the best cookie in the world, so I'm trying to duplicate that as a as a cookies and ice cream truck. It's doing well and prototype, but we're not we're not ready to sell that yet. But we will. We've got a we've got 3 or 4 other brands in concept that we're kind of bringing up the the line. I just We're very good at mobile. We understand what it is. We've got a great success record in in mobile. We're gonna live there in that space.
And we're gonna do it better than anybody's ever done it before. You know, with our software, with our marketing, with our support, with our manufacturing, you know, understanding the the whole aspect of that. So, you know, reach out if you want me personally LinkedIn, Tony Lamon LinkedIn, but, yeah, come to our websites. Again, anytime you you wanna get a hold of me is is easy. You can come to the website, call the main office at We're here in Florence, Kentucky.
You're the birthplace of shaved ice. This is what no no one knows. Florence. Oh my goodness. We've gotta come visit. Everybody's visiting these days. It's a great place to be. Tony, your remarkable. Thank you for being here. Blessings to you. Your family, all the Kona, you know, fingers out in the marketplace and the representation of your brand, but also just the joy and happiness that you're bringing to people all over. So thank you for being here, sir. Appreciate you. Chass, I loved it.
Thank you so much, man. I appreciate the time. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple and multiple different industries and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners as that It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1000 king specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family communities, and here's what we believe that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified, other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com.
I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings, toxin.