Do couples fight about the most? Right? Money, sex, and the kids. I can't help them with the other 2, but if if No. That big bucket of stress in life we call money is solved. It it really just makes everything better. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to gathering the king's guest. I am your host, Chaz Wolfe. Today, we welcome Mark Puldowski to the King stage. Mark is widely considered to be trusted authority on buying and selling raw undeveloped land.
He has completed well over 6000 unique transaction and has been crushing this real estate niche for over 20 years. Dude's got massive success record. Here's what we cover in this episode. 1, how to make money through investing in land. To me, it is the best passive income model. And I can walk you through exactly step by step how I do it 2, we talk about how people get bored with making money. Yes. Seriously. I see it happen all the time. People get bored with making money.
And then they complicate It's true. And we also talk about the land geek and how he shares, how he crafted his own lifestyle on his own terms. For me, total freedom is the freedom to work what I want, where I want, and with whom I want. Comment down below, tell me your best dad joke because you know you heard me pull off 3 or 4 of them in there. Enjoy the show. Mark, my brother. Welcome to the King Stage. How are you doing today, man? Chaz, pulse is normal. Respirations fine.
Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be here. The audience needs to buckle up because it it might go fast and and right right over their heads if we don't if we don't pay attention. But, Mark, I appreciate you being here. Tell us what kind of business that you ma'am. Yeah. So I've got several businesses, but my mission in life is to help people solve not just their money problems, but their time problems.
And so the way that I do that is by creating a passive income in raw undeveloped land. And so once your passive income exceeds your fixed expenses and you're totally free, you've got the time and the energy and the resources to go and live your best life. And then you've got a story, obviously, of how you did this for yourself and you you weren't just making a little bit of money that you had to replace.
You've got a background where, you know, that was quite a large income that you had to had to replace. Wanna get into some of that, but tell me about freedom first. Why why does passive income overcoming my expenses give me freedom? Well, because it's it's really that idea that you can be sick. You can lose your job. Anything in the world and the it's a very uncertain, volatile world. Right.
And so it's sort of the antidote to financial insecurity, knowing that you have this income stream coming in every single day or a week or a month Chaz you've already done all the work up front to get. And so if something should happen, you're taken care of, your family's taken care of, and it's just the antidote to financial insecurity. I don't mind. I mean, cash is great, but you gotta pay taxes and you gotta find, you know, more cash.
Where cash flow and that passive income is just, I think, King Yeah. Of King King King of all of all income. Right? But but you also think dirt. You even wrote a book about how to get rich on dirt. Why is dirt or undeveloped land, as you call it? Why is that king versus all the other real estate options? Yeah. So dirt is a little bit unique in the sense that you're talking about it at a very inefficient mark. Number 1. So you can't go and and look at the MLS and be like, okay.
That dirt is worth this. So it's really what a buyer and a seller agreed to. So it's very inefficient. And there's very few of those left. Number 1. Number 2, you couldn't think of a more boring real estate niche. Yep. So you're not gonna go on HGTV or the DIY network and say flip this you know, gland or flip this dirt. The before pictures raw land, the after pictures raw land. Yeah. And then so you're talking about something that's very non competitive.
So if you go to a rehab meeting, a real estate investment association meeting, hundred people in the room, 99 of them will be landlords, house slippers and wholesalers. You and I would be the only land guys there. And then you've talked about a massive market. There's billions of acres of raw land available in the United And you, me, a million people Chaz be in this niche, we'll all run out of money before we run out of deal flow. Yeah. And so and there's not big money in it.
There's not private equity groups. There's no hedge funds. They have too much money for the niche, which I'm gonna walk you through anyways. And then It's really interesting in the sense that you've got this asset you don't have to maintain. You don't have to protect. And you don't have to deal with a tenant. And so to me, it is the best passive income model, and I can kinda walk you through exactly step by step how I do it. I definitely wanna give you the chance to do that.
I think the obvious question for the entrepreneur who's probably listening. Maybe they're a real estate investor as well, but, you know, you put a tenant in a property. You you wholesale a deal. You you know, put, you know, an investment and and remodel and and then resell it, there's there's an exchange happening with raw land. There there's not there's how where's this money coming from? Oh, so where where is the money coming from? I'll I'll walk you through it. I'll walk you through it.
Yeah. Okay. So, Chaz, where do you live? I'm in Kansas City. You're in Kansas City. I live in Kansas City. I live down the plaza. What what in Overland Park. What part are you in? There you go. I've been in Overland Park, but I'm in I'm in Martin City area. Okay. South America. Okay. So yeah. Alright. So you're South Missouri side. You're in Kansas City. Go Chiefs. And I'm gonna assume Chaz you own 5 acres of raw land where I live in Arizona. Yep. And you owe, let's say, $200 in back taxes.
K. So you're advertising 2 important things. Everyone, you have no emotional attachment to that raw land. You're in Kansas, the properties in Arizona, And number 2, you're financially distressed in some weird way because when we don't pay for our property taxes, we don't value that property in the same way. And as a result, The county treasurer keeps sending you notices saying, Chad, you don't pay this pro this property taxes, you're gonna lose this property to a tax deed or a tax lien investor.
So all I'm gonna do is look at the comparable sales on your 5 acre parcel for the last 12 to 18 months. I'm gonna take the lowest comparable sale Let's say it's $10,000 and divide by 4. And that's gonna get me what Warren Buffett would call a 300% margin of safety. So I'm gonna send you an actual offer of $25100. Now you accept it. Why? As for you, $25100 is better than nothing. In reality, 3 to 5% of people are gonna accept my, quote, unquote, top dollar off offer.
Sure. But now that you've accepted the offer, I'm gonna go through due diligence or end up the research and confirm you still own the property. Confirm that the back taxes are only $200. I wanna make sure there's been no breaks in the Chaz of title. No liens or encumbrances. And so I'll outsource this to my team in Jamaica. They're connected to an American title company that costs about $11. Now if I was investing more than say $5000, I'm not gonna take any title risk.
And I'll just close traditionally through a title company. Right. But this is only $25100. And so everything checks out, give you a check for $23100, get the treasurer check for $200. I want it free and clear. And now Chaz, I'm gonna sell it 30 days or less. I wanna make it cash flow like your precious rental home. So I have a built in Best Buyer. Do you know who it is? Oh, the neighbor. The neighbors, you're right. I am. That's awesome. Yeah. So I'm gonna send out neighbor letters saying, hey.
Here's your opportunity. Protect your privacy. Protect your views. Know your neighbor. Often neighbors will buy. They don't. I'll go to my buyers list. The buyers list passes. I'll go to a little website you may have heard of. It's a 15th most trafficked website in United States called Craigslist I'll go to another one that's even bigger, Conmeda, or the Facebook buy cell groups in the marketplace, and then I'm gonna go to lands, landmoto.com. Lands of America.com.
Land.com, land and farm.com, landflip.com, land hub.com, landcenter.com. These are platforms where people buy and sell raw land, but the secret is in the pricing. So all I'm gonna ask for is a $25100 down payment for someone else to control that five acre parcel owned by the famous Chaz Wolfe. And then I'll make it a car payment. Right. Let's say 2 97 a month and 9% interest for the next 72 months. So it's a one time sale. I'm gonna get my money out on the down payment.
I could go 6 to 10 months out, and then I'm gonna make it a car payment, 2 97 a month, 9% interest, like 72 months, Chaz, No renters, no rehabs, no renovations, no rodents, and because I'm not dealing with the tenant. I'm exempt from Dodd Frank, respo, and the safe act, all his owners, real estate legislation. So then it's a simple game. Can we create enough land notes where our passive income then exceeds our fixed expenses and we're working because we want to, not because we have to.
I love it. Love every part of that. Thank you for following my very facetious, ask and, leading you right to the to the, yeah, to the equation there. Also, an entrepreneur, maybe an investor is not familiar with land and thinking, well, What the the risk I see there is then what if they stop paying me? And if I have a bunch of people stop paying me, then there goes my passive income. What happens, Mark? Yeah. That's fantastic. So and it's a great question.
So, you know, you know, and by the way, an entrepreneur, they don't wanna build themselves another job. Right. So this is the business and a machine, a passive income machine of buying and selling land. So we're gonna use three points of leverage. Number 1, other people's time, number 2, software and automation, and number 3, other people's money. But let's talk about that default. We're gonna use a software called geekpay.i0, and it's a sudden forget the payment system.
So we'll collect our down payment via credit card. We'll get our monthly payments via ACH, and it's gonna automate it. Now the ACH bounces. Okay. Great. You got 30 days to cure your default. If in 30 days you don't cure your default, We use a land contract, which means the asset remains in our ownership.
And so we keep the down payment, we keep the monthly payments which is now lowered our cost basis, which means if I paid $25100 and you've already paid me $500, now My new cost basis is only $2000. I'm gonna resell it again and get a new down payment, a new monthly payment, and it's increased my return on investment by doing that. So So you almost want people to not pay. Defaults. I I mean, depends on the property. There are things you can do.
Yeah. I mean, it's there are things you can do to to make sure that you do get defaults Yeah. You ask for a really low down payment. That's gonna increase your default rate. Yeah. But if you don't want default, you'll you'll try to get you know, a higher down payment. Yeah. Quality buyers. I mean, that's what the need is. Right? Buyer. Yeah. Yeah. But if you've got a if you've got a job, you can afford this land. Good. Well, the the listener is thinking, okay, geez. Like, I'm intrigued.
This is interesting. You say it's like a part time machine. I know that you were doing a part time out side of a very corporate investment banking solution or situation that you were in before you left that. If I'm an entrepreneur listening right now, how real is this for me to reach out to you and go, I want this little part time land machine, but I've got I've got a business. Well, yeah. I mean, Good question.
I think that if you've got an hour or 2 of focus time a day, this is a great side hustle to build passive income. As an entrepreneur, I'm a I'm really focused on focus. Yeah. So I would say, who could you get to really run this for you? If your business is going well, if your business isn't going well, then this could be a really interesting pivot into something else. Love it.
Well, you've you've worked with, a lot of people through your program, and so I wanna kinda tap into a little bit of your your authority here. You personally have done over 6000 land deals. Like, this is not just an idea you got last week. Yeah. No. And and growing. I mean, we're I think, yeah, we Gosh. How many deal we've done over 200 deals so far this year. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I I I think the space is raw for upgrading. I did there. Appreciate that.
Yeah. Okay. So but inside of this, like, Okay. So we know Wolfe. We know that you have an exact formula. What do some of the people that have either come through your program or that have tried to do this? What mistakes have they made that you are like, ah, if you hadn't done that or, you know, you know, so I'm trying to keep them away from maybe the bad the bad habits. Yeah. Yeah. The biggest mistake I see people making is fear based. So they buy a bunch of land and then they stop deal flow.
So we're sending out offers, and there's about a 6 week lag between the time you send out offers and the time you're gonna get responses. Now we buy all this property. And what do you do? Whether doobie do they get scared, I'm not gonna send out any more offers until I sell this property. And so that is the biggest mistake. And I've been doing this full time since 2001. I've never been stuck with a piece of they all sell at the right price.
And because you're looking at inefficient market, your average ROIs 300 to a 1000%. Yeah. I love that. So there's plenty of you know, meet on that bone if you need a wholesale and make a 100% Yeah. And and move that money. Yeah. Exactly. I think that the, you know, the concept there of really kinda just paying attention to what you have and also then the flow. Right?
I was just talking to somebody actually last night about kind of this idea of you've gotten to where you are based on these specific activities. Don't stop these activities. You know, it's like that old water pump, you know, and out on the farm, You just never can keep you know, it doesn't take as much effort as the beginning, but you just can't take your hand off of it. No. I see it happen all the time. People get bored with making money. And then they complicate it. It's true. It's so true.
They'll they'll be in this in this nice county and they're like, I wanna go to another county and be like, woah. Why? Yeah. You know, being an expert on in this county. Interesting. Do you see I mean, that that's a that's a problem with all entrepreneurs. Right? Like, we We just want the next thing. Why why in that moment? That that example that you just gave there. Like, I wanna go to the next county over. Do they feel like that I'm running out of opportunities in this county?
Is it the next county over is more, like, it's a higher end. It makes me feel better. Like, what do you find? I think it's just They get bored with it. They get bored with the marketing of it. They get bored with the selling of it. They're bored. Because as they're continuing to make money there, There's no reason to to go into a different market. And that's what I that's what I see now, to your point, if they're saying there's Chaz this is this area is drying up for me, then absolutely.
You wanna go into a different market, but that's not what I see often. I just see them wanting to complicate it. Like, they get bored with it. They wanna they wanna spice things up just like entrepreneurs tend to do. Yeah. We tend to create problems so that we have something to fix. I mean, that's just the honest truth.
You you obviously talk a lot about, you know, overcoming really just economic, you know, issues with passive income through the formula that you've given here, which I absolutely love. What do you think holds people back from even just being able to get to that place mentally or understanding money like, that money can come in. I don't have to work for it, and it can actually solve my problems or my dependency, as you call it. Right. Right.
So that that idea of solo economic dependency, which means if you're personally not working, you're not making any money. Right. So if you have a job, you're a freelancer, you're a solopreneur. I mean, we can even pick on people that solve their money problems and not other time problems. That's right. You know, doctors, lawyers, the dentist, the dentist, right, the dentist's hands are in the patient's mouth. They're not generating any income.
And so Chaz passive income piece solves that problem. And I actually lost What what was the question, Chaz? I I went on a tangent thing. How do you help people understand? I got on my soapbox about so what can I do? We're on the right soapbox. You you've got your your answer in the right right department here, but how how do you take somebody from not maybe believing that that's possible or whether it's possible for them? To create a system that can pay me whether I do the work or not.
Yeah. Okay. So I mean, I think the mindset I think it's really interesting that it's it's something that you actually have to do for yourself. I can't sit here and and say, yeah, this is gonna be right for you. I think that if you're listening to this, like, for me, it was right for me because I just like the idea of something that I can work from anywhere in the world. I like to travel. I have some computer skills, and I hate physical things. I'm I mean, I have no business owning a home.
Like, I need, like, you know, the handyman. And it's so masquerading to come over. I have to get on my computer, pretend like, I'm doing something when when they're there. So, you know, if you're really handy and you love meeting with some contractors and you have a passion for that, like, traditional real estate is better for you. If you're kinda geeky or nerdy like me, this is something you you probably want to experiment with, but I think everything's a test.
You have to test it out for yourself. Yeah. I think you're true. I think you're right on that. I also think that if you just like money, Chaz they're probably right for land. You know, there there's anything land other real estate opportunities, other business opportunities, because I've been in lots of different industries. It's not really the widget. And I've learned I luckily, I learned this at a very young age. It's not about the widget. It's about the system.
And if I can create a system, regardless of me, the mother value, the reason why I'm still gonna get paid with our physically working or not is because I built the system where I put the right people in the right place, created the automations or whatever it is that that goes into the machine, that's the value that keeps paying over and over, which know, I'll give you a chance to talk about this, but some people come across or butt up against, you
know, like, you know, his passive income or maybe not passive income, but his earning money after working. Is that is that like a something for nothing? It feels like, well, if I'm not doing anything, you know, there's no value here, but the value is in what we just talked about. The creating of the machine. And you've done so and you've helped many other people deal with it. Talk about this. Yeah. I mean, the the machine is is everything. You're right.
And the more valuable valuable you are as the the owner and the entrepreneur of the founder, less valuable your your businesses. Right. And so, again, I mean, it's it's really creating those systems and processes and those automations, and 90% of this business can be automated with inexpensive virtual assistance and software. And so it's really just working that system consistently and and doing that that creates all that value.
Yeah. Nice to train 100, if not, maybe a few thousand sales reps, and it's it's funny how, you know, it's phone calls. And we we we made phone calls. Like, hundreds of phone calls a day, and it's just really not that difficult. Like, yes, we need to work on your tone. And, yes, we need to work on the, you know, your understanding of tonality or your the script and and how to persuade and and the sales process. Okay. Fine. Sure. It if you only make 10 phone calls today, I can't help you.
You know? So that consistency piece is huge. You get bored with the idea of just making phone calls or just sending out more offers. You know? Yeah. No. It yeah. It's it's so true. What do you think, as far as, like, regionally is a hot place for land right now? Is it is it even regional like that? Hey, Kings and Queens. Jazz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort.
We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too. So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again all of the things on social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify.
We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible. Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneur who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this. Let's help each other grow. Yeah. I mean, Chaz look. I love Kansas City. I do. I love Kansas. Okay. But nobody wakes up and thinks themselves, boy. I'd like some raw land in Kansas unless you live in Kansas.
I was gonna say, hey. Yeah. So We wanna focus on the Southwest, northwest, California, Florida, and some wooded areas in in the Midwest. Right? So the sunshine states places where people Wolfe, you know, they can imagine retiring to or taking their family out camping those types of of of places. So, you know, New Mexico, Texas, Colorado, Arizona, Nevada. Those are gonna be your your hotter areas. Yeah. Not to say that you can't do a deal in Kansas. You can.
It's just we wanna get our biggest buyer, our biggest market, you know, buyer pool in those areas. Explain explain the the market cap here because you kinda said earlier that you'd run out of money before running out of opportunities or deal flow. What what do you mean by that? Well, there's billions of acres of raw land available in the United States. And because a bank won't lend on this, These are all cash deals.
So at some point, you either have to get investors or you have to sell your note portfolio to continue buying. And you can't and you can't do that for sure. But at some point, you'll just The market's so big, you would just run out of money. Yeah. There's there's that was probably 2 or so weeks ago. I'm I'm going through the process of of a 1031. Are about to start at 1031, and I've been looking at land. Believe it or not. Not necessarily in the way that you've done it.
I, I'm intrigued by the way that you do your business for sure. I have been for a while, but this is just a a more of a a family play. And so I'm looking at land, but my point in saying that is even though I'm looking at land, not necessarily from a flipping perspective, you could just go online and you find several pieces and you zoom out and you're like, wow, that's that's 300 acres, you know, 2, $3,000,000 piece of property, and you zoom out and it's like this little bitty blip.
And I haven't even exited the Kansas City region. You know, let alone the state of Missouri or Kansas, let alone the entire country. So to your point, it's funny when we talk about, you know, acreage or especially if if anybody's listening right now, they they grew up around acreage or farming in their family, anything like that. It you know, you talk big acreage, you know, quite a bit. Especially, you know, a big farmer is gonna be, you know, maybe a 1000 or 2000 or 5000 acres.
That's a pretty big farmer. And just a, such, such, a small drop in the bucket, when it comes to the total land mass that's currently not being developed at all anywhere. You know what I mean? It's just crazy, actually. It it's yeah. It's it's a really interesting niche in market for sure. Your background is not in land. Your background investment banking And so deal making, maybe I can see the correlation there, but how how are you even drawn to land to begin with?
Well, I was drawn to it because I I like getting a deal. Like, I grew up. Like, my my my dad's a wholesale grocery knew that the prices of everything And so when I first started, I was going to these tax deductions and buying up raw land, like pennies on the dollar. I'm like, oh my gosh. And then I just like the idea that well, what's the worst case scenario on this? I own a piece of raw land, and it's not anything physical that I have to deal with. It's just piece of paper. Just set that.
And so I could just figure, well, okay. Let's say I can't Wolfe it. Well, I could probably bargain. You know, maybe I could you know, free haircuts or free dentistry for a year, you know, this land. But and the tax is really inexpensive. So I could hold it and I could figure it out. So for me, it it it made a lot of sense. And if you're the kind of person that gets excited about a deal, right, like, you know, we're buying something $25..3 in the dollar. Then I I really like Chaz.
And then helping somebody that thought, oh, I can never afford this piece of land. You make it affordable. And then that other piece of it that I don't talk probably enough about is the fact that that person who's buying that piece of land, they're paying property taxes. Most property taxes are improving that county's roads and schools and hospitals. And so there's value all the way along that that value chain. Yeah. I I find very interesting. Yeah. No. You're a 100% right.
And that's where, obviously, money comes from is is what the value is. Glad we went through that a little earlier. The the end result of all this for you, you talk about this a lot in your content, and so I wanna give you a little on ramp here to maybe talk about it a little bit, but then how it applied to your life, but talk about kind of, you know, overcoming the rat race, if you will. Passive income, I can now be free.
We've we've mentioned this thing, but Ultimately, Chaz leads to a lifestyle, a freedom, which we kinda talked about earlier, but what does that look like for you now? What does lifestyle look like for you? How do you define that? What's freedom? What are you doing? Tangible things, intangible things? Like, give us a picture of, like, man, you're the land geek. Like, what what is what does this really get me? You know? Yeah. So I've done a lot of traveling.
I've been to Bali, and I've been to Africa and Vietnam. I've been why. And this is all, like, Europe, and this is all in, like, the last 12 months. So I've done a a lot of traveling. Number 1, I take July off for years have always taken July off and just see, like, stress test the business. Yeah. How does the team do without me? And it's the most humbling experience because the business always does really well in July. Like, Chaz am I, like, why am I should even work? At all.
So I think that for me, total freedom is just that the the freedom to work when I want, where I want, and with whom I want. And then the the freedom to have the the time and the energy and the resources to to really work on things that for me, transcend money. So I I want a fit body. I wanna calm mind. So I work out every day. I do breath work and I meditate every day. I read. And so and then, you know, that time Wolfe there's all these happiness studies.
The people who are happiest, they have the best relationships that has nothing to do with money. And so that's really what I wanna do with my time is pour in to my relationships. And sometimes their business relationships, you know, sometimes, you know, your deal friends become real friends, which is awesome. And so but we only have so much time. I'm I'm obsessed with them. So I try to make the most out of every single day, and and really that's that's what I do.
That's that's what the business allows me to do, and I get to, you know, ask myself these sort of deep philosophical questions about life and happiness and meaning and purpose. And, you know, you're just kinda moving up Maslow's hierarchy needs into self actualization or transcendence. Yeah. Where do you think that you were in that hierarchy when you were, you know, before land? And and Before land when I had a job, I I think I was just trying to livi Goickley, if you will.
So I wanted to make money. I wanted status. I wanted my friends and family to be like, oh, look at you, Mark. You're doing pretty Wolfe. And that that investment, shape, baking job, must be pretty good. Right? I want people to think I was smart or capable And ultimately, what I realized was number 1, no one was really thinking about me. No one cares. Right? I bought it. You know, a big house, and I had a, you know, like, big car. Like, I'm not even a car guy.
So Not not like a a really value driven life. It was just kind of buying into what culture told me, look, mix, You look successful. Yeah. And, you know, it it it was not success. I had to be at a job at a 45 minute commute to work and back. It was And so I was living a life that was not truly authentic to me as a person and trying to live up to somebody else's idea of success, but not my own.
Yeah. What was that breaking point for you in that moment where, you know, maybe the person listening right now is already an entrepreneur. So maybe it's not a breaking point of leaving a job for a business, but the breaking point of enough is enough. I need to change something. When did that happen? I mean, I think I I think that's Chaz. I think all entrepreneurs go through that. Like, how much is enough? Yeah. Is what I'm doing day to day really what I love to do.
Like, I'll ask my question pretty much on a weekly basis. And I and I and I, you know, one of those things I didn't talk about was, like, a journal every day. So I asked myself these questions. I'm gonna journal and think about them as, you know, are the activities that I'm doing? Can I do them forever? And is the the value, like, is what I'm doing creating value? Is there anything I'm doing that's not creating value and and taking a look at that?
You know, mapping out sort of these value engines, if you will, and going through that exercise. So I think as an entrepreneur, you need to know what your definition of enough is. So for me, enough is 200% of my passive income should exceed my fixed expenses. So now that I'm way over that, it's all just a game. Now it's like, okay. Let's add value and and do your best and enjoy life and if I wake up, but I don't wanna do anything. I'm enjoy it. Not do anything.
If I if I wake up and think I wanna start a new business, I'll do that. It's, you know I I I do know. I also know that your competitor even from our little conversation back and forth here at the beginning before we hit the record button, you know, we we had to kinda blow some blow some smoke up your scourge make you feel good about your mic over there, and I'll be kidding. Yeah. But in all seriousness true.
No. No. But in all seriousness, I know you're a competitor because competitors win, and you're winning. And so the the the picture that's been painted of almost like this, you know, blissful mark, I know it's true because you've gotten there. But I know I know that there's the game that you talked about.
And and I actually loved how you kinda you I can use this as a transition because you know, even whether you've self actualized or reached a point where passive income over, you know, takes over your fixed expenses, There is a freedom in that. Okay. Cool. But there's still a game to play.
So you kinda identified what that looks like potentially, but give give the listeners a thought, especially if they don't have that freedom yet of being able to kinda just play the game however that looks because I want to, not because I have to. What what is that part of it look like? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have no interest in in, you know, SIG in a cave. In meditating, you know, 12 hours a day. Right?
I mean, so there there is something to be said about the game of of life and the game of business and and playing it as well as you can. Ultimately, you're competing against the the prior version of yourself. Sure. So can I be a better version of myself today than I was yesterday? That's that's really the competition. And then having the the game, the fun, of meeting people like you who, you know, are smarter and they've got better microphones and you take all Chaz.
We have the same, Mike, just just in case the listeners are curious. Right. And so, yeah, I mean, there's certain things, like, I'll never be as good looking as you or maybe as talented, but I can certainly take some of that knowledge. I can listen to the podcast and I can surround myself with with those people and and level up. So I I think that there's a lot to be said about just enjoying that game of life and kinda being like a duck. Right?
You see these ducks and they're they're totally tranquil but below the surface, they're paddling furiously. And I think that's the the way to do it. I mean, I know it's like this paradox because we all want things and we all strive. And and there's nothing wrong with it. Right? I just think that you should enjoy it. Why you're doing it. And if you get it, great. And if you don't, great. I I appreciate those. Not true statements, but I do appreciate them. It does make me feel good at least.
The the the the duck on water is usually used in a scenario of crisis chaos but I'm cool on the outside. Nobody knows. But you've used it in a different scenario. You've used it as Cool cam and enjoyment or fulfillment or or happiness on the outside, but I can still work or play the game even inside of the fact that I've achieved, quote, unquote, you know, financial freedom.
Have you seen I know Chaz you've seen that in your own life, but Have you seen that in the people that have come through your program and that are doing what you're doing other people that you're around? Like, what does that look like from a, like, you looking in on someone else? Like, them actualizing that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, for me, is the most gratifying thing is when Someone called me and says, hey, Mark, you you changed my life.
And I just was actually talking to a couple of this morning that, you know, they they made that come. They said, land changed our lives. And so he was a principal, and she was a stay at home mom. And now he's more than replaced his Income as a principal, 3 kids, and young kids, they could spend all day with those kids, and they can be totally present. And as a couple, what what do couples fight about the most? Right? Money, sex, and the kids. I can't help them with the other 2.
But if if, you know, that big bucket of stress in life we call money is solved, it really riples out and and affects all your areas of life and and just makes everything better and you can really choose to spend your time in the ways Chaz, again, are the most meaningful for you. And so, I mean, I you know, one of our our newest coaches, Robert Chaz. He was a corporate attorney in in El Paso.
And in his 1st year, he got his passive income to 10,000 a month and the 2nd year, 18,000 a month, 3rd year of over 30,000 a month. Now he's over 50,000 a month massive income. So he quit and he's at home with his baby. Him and his wife can do whatever they want, and it's It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah. Chaz is it truly I mean, I think I think some people might be listening, you know, still in disbelief.
That someone can actually produce 50000 a month in passive income, but I I wanna I don't wanna miss this opportunity to to shed some advice on you know, those three areas that couples fight on, I think that they're they're true. You know, you got money, sex, and children, like you said, and I think that the antidote to all of those is just more. More more money, more sex, and more children. Right? Like yeah. It it could it could be. I mean, I think You're hesitant, Mark.
Well, I think you need to know. I think you have to have your enough point on Chaz. For sure. I had to get a good laugh out of you. But in all seriousness, someone's listening right now. They're going 50 k a month in passive income. Their their belief isn't there. What would you say to that guy? Feel the same way. I I'd be skeptical too. There's there's so much snake oil out there. I've I think that it's You have to do it for yourself.
You have to really try for yourself or talk to more people who are doing it. I mean, we have a a whole community. Do your due diligence and really see, like, okay. I talked to Mark. Yeah. What's he gonna say? He's not gonna say it sucks. Right? It's a little self serving. All these other people, it's worked for them, and they look like me. And maybe I look like you too. So it's great. So I would say you you gotta try it for yourself.
You you definitely want to have a a certain healthy amount of skepticism. I mean, I have you know, I talk to people and I get these shiny object syndrome, and this business looks amazing. That business looks amazing. And that business looks amazing. And Ultimately, when I start digging into them, they're not for me. And they don't really you know, nobody wants to be in a race when a a race that I wanna be in. So is this the race you wanna be in?
And for me, the freedom race was one that I wanted to be in. And having no headaches race was one I wanted to be in. But for other people, it might be boring. It may not be exciting. It may not be enjoyable. I mean, I talked to a guy the other day, and he's like, you know, I can't get excited about 2.97 a month payments. I wanna make You know, I wanna do these bigger deals. I'm like, great. You can do bigger deals. Yeah. There's there's nothing wrong. It's that's just not the niche I teach Yeah.
Yeah. 29975 times or a 127 times or 10,000 270 times. Like Right. Come on now. Yeah. If you can do it once, you could do it a million times. So it's it's one of those things, but, yeah, I think it I think if anything in life, right, I might I make it sound easy. Nothing's easy. It's a simple model. Not easy. If anyone tells you anything that they're doing is easy, that it's just not true. I mean, especially if entrepreneurs, right, Sure. Entrepreneurship is just not easy.
We're we're all a little it gotta be a little crazy, I think. Yeah. I think a lot more than a little, but I'm with you. Mark, I you've you've got so much experience. I just appreciate you, you know, sharing your drop of, you know, where you were investment banking and and wanting to be in in deals and and I love the model that you've created here. I love that the fact that you just helped so many other people do it.
If you had the opportunity to go back and talk to you, I don't know, younger, you pick the age. What would you tell yourself? Well, number 1, I would I would tell myself to learn to to meditate. And and not take all these thoughts. So seriously, I I I would not have suffered as much in my twenties thirties for sure. And and probably would have enjoyed life way more at that time. So that that would be the first thing I would told myself.
And I think the second thing I would have told myself was, you know, that job faster. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. The, you know, like you said, it's we we kinda have to define what we want, and I think that there's a time and a reason you know, for those those things in our lives, especially as entrepreneurs, the ones that wanna take that risk to do something different.
And so if you're listening right now and and you think land is is a vehicle for you to help you get there, obviously, we'll put all of Mark's information, but give us just a quick drop social media website, give us where they can find you and and learn more. Yeah. I think the best place to go is the landcom.landgate.com. And since you're an intelligent listener for the gathering the king's podcast, I have a free book, dirt rich, I'd like to offer as well.
We just pay for the shipping and and Chaz have it linked. Yep. We've got the link in the show notes. Click on Chaz. Get your free book, dirt rich. You're a man of maybe few words, but lots of wisdom in there. So I'm glad I got some some chuckles here with you today. I I'm thankful to know you and to know just the things that are happening in land and And I think that, there'll be plenty of listeners.
Hopefully, they'll take you up on that offer for that free book, and that you've been a blessing. So I appreciate you being here, Mark, and we we hope to stay connected with you. Thanks, Jazz. Appreciate it. Thank you for listening to Gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself. What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple business and multiple different industries, and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners. Is that It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.
In fact, we are putting together 1 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
So if that relates and and resonates with you, and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com. Once you take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit, to 1000 kings. Talk soon.