On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. There is nothing that's gonna prevent us from being successful. Nothing. Because I went through the drive for 3 years. Like, gonna have to kill me before this company fails. I became comfortable with things going wrong and then just being able to just problem solve. We have an opportunity at Heave to build an industry defined income, and those opportunities don't come around very often. And so what drives me is the ability to do that.
What's up everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, Gathering the Kings podcast, coming back to you here today with another king on the stage. My brother. Alex Craft. Welcome. How are we doing? I'm great. Thanks for having me on Chaz. Good morning. Yeah. Good morning, man. You know, I was just commenting, you're in, like, in a little, phone booth scenario. I remember, actually, I recorded my very first podcast episode, and it looks exactly like your running. Yep. I am. I am.
I'm in a little telephone booth, but my office is an open floor plan. And it is it's a great office. It has a great view. But it's, miserable for privacy and having conversations. So Yeah. Exactly. Well, I I'm just glad that you made it happen, I I think this is gonna be a great show for, nonetheless, of the fact that my first podcast recording with, I was in a a show or in a booth just like that. I still know Chaz guy today.
In fact, he's a member of Gathering the Kings, and, we have done all kinds of business together, because he's sold quite a bit of few properties for me. Nice. Anyway, you you and I both know some of the same people, tell us what kind of business that you have here. So I I founded a company called Heave, we are a labor marketplace in the heavy equipment industry. So heavy equipment, you know, thinking of, like, caterpillar John Deere Camatsu, big yellow iron.
We provide customers who own the equipment with access to mechanics to fix it. That's what we do. Yeah. Love it. You play matchmaker service. We do. You know, it sounds cliche, but the easiest way that people understand it is like Uber for heavy equipment repairs. Yeah. I got a big piece of equipment. It's broken down. Rather than taking it to my dealership or having to haul it, I just hop on an app that you've bought that you've built and, and made work for for, people just like me. Right?
A 100%. Very easy. I love it. Love it. Okay. So this is, maybe what some people would consider a non sexy business. Even though you're in the tech space and you're doing cool stuff, you know, you're you're in the non sexy industry of big equipment What what's sexy about that? Unless you're in that industry, what I have found, because I've got some friends and not necessarily equipment, but they love buying big pieces of equipment. They totally think sexy. Yeah. But if it's not sexy at all.
But but I guess my question in in leading through all of the non sexiness here is why are you doing this, man? Why this business? Why entrepreneurship? Why are you just after it in general, Alex? Big big question. You know, it's funny. I fell into the business 20 years ago, not knowing anything about it. I was a college basketball player. Was looking to play professionally, got hurt, had to figure out my life, and just start a career. And fell into the industry and really liked it.
I started off selling heavy equipment. Heavy equipment is run very similar to, like, the auto business model. So, you know, you have dealerships that have a territory. They're franchisee owned. So just started off in a sales job, you know, calling on customers, you know, which is basically like going door to door and selling $300,000 assets. But I always like the blue collar nature of the industry.
You know, you're dealing with real people, salt to the earth, and that's, you know, how I got my start. And then, you know, work my way through the company, you know, for 16, 17 years, Rose, you know, was management, chief operating officer, and then our company got sold. And that's when I started my entrepreneurship after that. Why do you think that I mean, I I know sales and entrepreneurship are closely related. That's part of my story as well.
You kinda be a little entrepreneur as a sales guy. But why do you think in that moment, you just didn't transfer over to another dealership and keep your career going? You took that as an opportunity to say, this is my time. Yeah. That's interesting. Because, you know, entrepreneurship was not necessarily in my blood. Like, you know, being on this journey now, like, you meet a lot of different people, who had a paper out or, you know, I'm from Philadelphia.
So like, oh, hey, snow snow comes down. I hire kids in the in the block to shovel snow. Chaz wasn't me. I think you know, I'm a big believer that everything happens, like, on a certain time schedule or for a reason. And I don't know. My experience I had just been exposed to so many different people at, like, higher levels.
And the more people I got exposed to and gained access to gave me the confidence that I kind of seen it all, and I had I had accumulated, enough wisdom about the industry to have the confidence to, go out on my own because I could have gone to another dealership. But part of my makeup is that I can't just relive the same nightmare of the same problems over and over again at a different place.
Like, it was just there were a couple things, couple opportunities that were so, just out in the open Chaz, I was like, you know, why not me? Because someone was going to do what we're doing today. It's not Yeah. We're not I always tell people, we're not building rockets here. We're solving a very, acute pain point And That's right. Why not me? You know, because like I said, someone was gonna do it. And so that's what gave me the confidence to do it, and just go for it.
Yeah. It's interesting, that why not me phrase the guy that I was just telling you about that I recorded with my on my very first podcast, he has bracelets that he hands out to his clients that say, why not me? And I I think that that phraseology here, although it I think it could be taken in a like, a fearful negative sense, but, you know, if you're thinking about it the wrong way, but what I'm hearing you say is, now's the time. Why couldn't I have what these other people have.
If I can if they can do it, I can do it. Right? A 100%. And that's what it's really helpful to research and read about other companies you know, in other industries. And, you know, we have a tendency to look at companies and just because we just stumble upon them at that point in time. They all start from the same place. They start from 0. They had to get their first customers. You know, they were everyone had started a company who's laughed at.
You know, was told that they're stoop you know, they're Chaz, or who do you think you are? You think you can be Amazon? Like, no. I don't think I owe me Amazon, but it's just everyone has that same path, and it starts with, you know, are you solving a true pain At first, ironically, we weren't solving a true pain point, but it was important to, like, kinda grind through it. And then just stick with it and, and find that niche and then just go all in on.
Yeah. That's an interesting piece that you just gave to us there because I think you you're right. I'm gonna I'm gonna give a little preface here, and then I'm gonna ask you a question. That a lot of businesses start from excitement or, you know, I have to. Like, I have to go provide dinner for my family tonight. And it's not really I'm not solving much of a need Right. Really. But I am providing value to some degree somehow, and I'm sure that's that's what what the story was.
So give us a little bit of the context there. I'm sure you were providing value, but how did you work through the wait a second? This actually doesn't solve a very big need. Yeah. So when we started, it was, he was more of an Expedia type service for contractors to buy and rent equipment easily online.
It was right around COVID, which I thought was gonna be a huge, tailwind for us because, you know, person to person meetings were kinda it was harder for people to do that, but the existing dealerships did not wanna utilize our service. You know, they felt like it was threatening to them because they relied on sales teams in front of customers.
And so Yeah. I like in the equipment, the setup to, like, cable companies where, you know, it'd be whatever town you live in, if you wanna get cable, there's only 3 providers. It's kinda protect And that's kinda how heavy equipment has always been. Now yeah. So it was more of an inconvenience the way customers had to buy and rent equipment That's the way I describe it now after, you know, we grind it for two and a half years doing that.
And we we transition to what is the real pain Wolfe, the real pain of the customer is getting their equipment fixed because, yeah, there there's only 4 provider who can sell and rent to you, but that only that means that there's only 4 providers who can fix your machine. And that's where the magic started happening. Yeah. And rather than waiting on those 4 kingpin Mhmm. Dealers in that area, now you can work with all the purchasers and you give them Exactly.
And so it allowed us to serve the customer and not really need the dealerships to build the this. And one of the things that I did notice, towards our last few years at the dealership was, a lot of really talented mechanics were leaving. Because they were unhappy, because the wage scale is is broken. Some like, once again, similar to auto. Right? We all get our our our auto service bill, and it's $200 an hour or whatever it is. Well, you know, what is the what do they pay the mechanic?
And it's even more gross in the heavy equipment space. So I started seeing a lot of talented mechanics leaving and going out on their own, being independent, it's a make true market rate, and that's that's what connected it for me. So we we we help customers find those independent mechanics. And so they're at a fraction of a dealership price, but the mechanic is keeping a lot more of Chaz that weight of the value that they create. Yeah. Exactly.
You use the phrase, or the, kind of, the connection point of Uber, but that's in essence what you've done here is that now a driver can go drive their own car and people work people around, they don't have to work for a taxi service, their own own hours, own everything. Exactly. Okay. What do you think is like I mean, you've given us the the lay of the land here, and I'm with you. But, like, What burns deep down inside of Alex? Like, what wakes you up in the morning? Making an impact.
So K. Alright. Yeah. I've never made a decision in my career or life that was based on money. I think money comes at certain points. But, you know, when I kinda like think back about my journey, you know, I was an athlete, so I'm highly competitive. And in a weird way, I feel like, I let myself down, athletically. I didn't really I didn't I think maybe sports came too easy to me, and therefore, I didn't work as hard as I should have.
And I feel kind of a a level of disappointment and in that part of my career. And so I view this entrepreneurship as, like, kind of like a second chance, to really build something incredible. Like, we we have an opportunity at Heave to build an industry defining company, and those opportunities don't come around very often.
And so what drives me is the ability to do Chaz, to to have to build a company, to start a company from 0, that 10 years from now, maybe, hopefully, 5 years from now, people in the industry are like, Chaz you believe that that we used to get service this way. Like, why wouldn't, you know, this is ridiculous. And then to kinda change the game. So that's what that's what drives. Yeah. I can I can relate?
I think a lot of people that, have athletics in the background, I mean, just look at the stats, like, 99.9999% of them don't go pro. So we're talking to Right. Pretty much every listener out there who played any sort of sport, and they might be able to look back and feel the same way that you do. Like, man, if I given it more. What do you think the new road? Because you're saying I kinda get a second chance.
Sure. Obviously, we're gonna have to use principle here because the things tax leaders are gonna do in business are different than in basketball. But what are some of those things you're gonna do different this time? Wolfe, I think you have to struggle. And that's something that when I was younger with sports, you know, there wasn't a ton of struggle. And so then when it came up, maybe I didn't react, the best way.
And with business, it's like, when when we decided to start the company, it was struggle for two and a half years. And it really, for me, it was You know, like I said, we were at least we were solving a pain at some point. But, really, entrepreneurship was more of a battle like me against me. It was how are you gonna respond to it? And, so I've definitely grown in terms of that aspect. And it's just, you know, believing in what I was doing and just sticking with it.
And there there became I became comfortable with things going wrong and then just being able to just problem solve. I think one of the the problems It was good for me to be in a corporate environment because that's what I, you know, I learned those lessons. The the problems in the corporate environment was, problems come up And then it's like blame game. It's like, alright. How do I just maintain and keep my paycheck coming every 2 weeks? You know, let's let's deny the problem. Or let's Alright.
Let's just blame someone else for the problem. And then, therefore, nothing gets fixed. And then with with this, it's you you just come into it like, hey. Things are gonna go wrong, but the best part about be having a young company, a startup company, is that it's all a blank sheet of paper. Problems come up. Just come up with a solution. You're agile. You can fix things, and then that makes you better over time.
So I've just I've loved the challenge of that and the energy, and the ability to to move quickly and change things and improve. Like, I really want to improve in every facet of my life. Yeah. The the scenario in basketball, tell me if this brings up any, maybe, good or bad memories. I don't know.
But when I think about some of my basketball days and some of the tournaments we played in and stuff, it's like, oftentimes, at least there's gotta be a stat around this somewhere, but if you lose in the first round, then you can always make it back to the championship, and you got that one loss. As opposed to if you never lose, then you make it to the championship undefeated. And I just always felt more confident going into that championship game with a loss. I mean, obviously, a less to lose.
Like, that's a total mental situation, but tell us about that. Like, how does that apply? Cause Chaz I'm hearing you say that for your business. You know? I see it as the first thing I think about when you bring that up is my kids. So I've been coaching my kids teams. And, hyper competitive in this in Tampa area, like flag football is huge. I see it every day, every season. There are certain teams that are stacked. And these kids never lose.
And then I see them get into a competitive game and they fold because they're not used to being in in a game where, you know, this possession matters. Like, they're used to beating everybody by 40 forty points, and I think that is the the wrong thing. And because, yeah, we we talk about a lot of the stuff, in business and sports, you learn most from your mistakes. And then I watch a lot of these youth sports teams and they stack the team. And so there's never any mistakes.
And I just think it's setting, your kids up for failure. And so that's the first thing that I think about because when you lose, it forces you to look at certain things and to change. Unless you just are okay with losing. You don't. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Which is a whole another level of mindset.
But I I think the point there is that it it forces the reflection, which you kinda re you know, referenced a few minutes ago, which is I had to actually, like, look at the way I was responding to the loss or to the failure. I'm gonna use this as a huge transition point here because I like to talk about the wins and the losses of business. Let's just go right into that loss for you since we've kinda highlighted the importance of it. You're right. We do, you know, learn a ton from it.
What was hour for you where it was just really, really bad. What can we what can we learn? Fhew. Really, really bad. You know, I don't know. I I think about this a little differently. Like, I don't you know, when I've made bad decisions, I don't necessarily get hypercritical over them because they are learning opportunities. Like, when I when I reflect back on my career in terms of, like, bad decisions. I I think more of, like, decisions I didn't make.
So, like, personnel decisions, like, I think, you know, you should we gotta trust our instincts, and there were plenty of times where my instincts told me, like, hey. This wasn't the right person, or Hey. We gotta do something different, and I didn't. And, of course, it played out, and I should have acted. And so Like, those are more of the mistakes that I've made that that stand out. Whereas, like, for example, I explained to you a little bit about our journey where we started the company.
We didn't have the right product for the market. You know, that That's not a mistake because it forced me to figure it out, and it forced me to goes through the struggle to the point where, like, it it was really it would have been easy to quit. And I didn't. And because I didn't, there is nothing that's gonna prevent us from being successful. Nothing. Because I went through the grind for 3 years. Like, you're gonna have to kill me before this company fails.
And that wouldn't have been the case, because it would be really easy to say, well, if you were wound to 3 years ago, and you should've just started heave doing service. Well, if we hit instant success, probably be a different company. Yeah. Yeah. I think that you're right. It's not like we're looking for opportunities to, you know, purposely shove our face into the to the to the curb. But the the fortitude or the resolve that I just heard you say.
You said you're gonna have to kill me before this company doesn't become successful. Chaz level of, you know, like, you know, it's resolution, really. It's it's a commitment, it's decision. It's it's it is. Not it will be. It is. Right. And it comes from earning something. Yes. How how does the listener who maybe doesn't quite feel this way yet? But they've had some failures, and they're like, well, I didn't I didn't feel that coming out on the other side. What what can you offer to him?
You know, I don't It's, we all have our own separate journey. You know, I think, it took me a while to feel, like, to become, to, like, really know who I am to be to develop the confidence in what I was gonna do. You know, it it's, we all arrive at different points. You know, I think so much of it is, like, understanding who you are, understanding what drives you, and and just looking at it, what opportunity is, and then not being afraid to go for it. You know, that's that's the biggest thing.
Like and it's hard, right, because I was in a very comfortable place. I could have gone a different direction, but, you know, it just it it had I been 10 years younger, maybe I didn't I wouldn't have, but there comes a point in everybody's career where it's like, hey. Stop talking and act. And and it's okay to go for it. You know, it's okay to act. Yeah. Yeah. I I think that action is bought on. I think that you're right in giving them those those words.
I wanna I wanna pit one more piece here on this, you know, quote, unquote failure of yours. Because you kind of painted this picture. You had played ball. You had done well. Clearly. Really, the only thing that had kept you from, even winning at the highest level was was an injury probably in your mind something that you couldn't even control. Sure. You start selling.
Clearly, you're selling Wolfe and you're making good money because you said that, you know, you could have kept going, and it would have been pretty comfortable, all up into, boom, you smash your face for two and a half years, in the scenario that you just described to us. And so I guess zooming out the the fortitude or the resolve or the persistence that you can now look on and say that you had, what were the components that you were that you had beforehand when it was easy?
That you were still building inside of yourself. Obviously, it was, you know, athletics and and selling all those things mindset wise, but what were those things that maybe the listener can take away? You know, one of one of the things where I look back is I cared too much about what people thought, and I think that's the characteristic that you that's important. If you're gonna build something successful, you gotta let go of that, which I did.
Yeah. You know, seeking validation because, like I said, you you do enough research on people, you know, even with these really successful companies, you think it comes easy and it doesn't for anybody. And one of the things that's important to understand, is that, you have to go against the grain if you wanna build something special. You know, and so, therefore, you can't listen or care about what other people say. And that was hard for me to get over.
Because, you know, starting the company, you want other people to recognize the idea, and you want other people to tell you it's a great idea. And it's, yeah, Bravo. Right. And then when nothing's happening for 2 2 years, you know, I came to the realization. It doesn't matter what people say. And we had plenty of people, and I'm sure you've dealt with this too. There is a certain segment of people who tell you it's a great idea, but they don't buy for me.
And so, like, where where is that getting you? It's so it came to the to the realization of it doesn't matter. Like, you you just gotta make it happen and, you know, go against the grain, feel comfortable with confrontation, which growing growing Philadelphia. I was very comfortable with confrontation. So that wasn't a problem. But, it was hard for me to to get past Chaz, like, hey. You can't be caught up in what other people say.
Yeah. Let's let's press on this a little bit because I I think it could even be one of the good decisions that you've made that I also think I've made is you have to start eliminating that voice. Whether it's our own voice or the voice of others where it's like, we we can't really care about Chaz. But to your point, it's a whole lot harder done than said. Especially when you have some accolades where they're like, I mean, I can think of him for myself. I have I have buddies.
That have great companies Chaz love what I'm doing with Gathering the Kings and the Pure Mastermind. And tell me, this is great. I love it. But aren't members. Right. It's like and it's probably better that way, because know, I I want a friendship and not necessarily, you know, whether it was that old adage clients become friends before friends become clients, you know. Hey, Kings and Queens. Chaz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me.
We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too.
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Let's help each other. Let's hope each other grow. But it's like, okay. I I before this, I sold sales training. And before that, I had, you know, I I've still got franchises. And it's like, I can't tell you how many times with with my franchise zedible arrangements. It's Christmas time, and we're doing huge orders for big, old companies. And the people that I know that have companies that do Christmas gifts for their people don't order edible arrangements. And you're like, wait a second.
I feel like I'm on an island here. Talk to this for just a half second here as far as, like, maybe how you came over it, what the listener can do to kinda, like, press up against this voice Chaz you're just like, am I doing the right thing? It's it's in essence, what they're saying. Yeah. I think it comes back to instincts. Like, are you doing the right thing or not? Do you believe in what you're doing? Yeah, because if you don't believe it, you know, how else is it gonna happen?
So you have to be committed and you have to like, I I always I'm amazed at, people who start companies where they don't really like, they have one experience with something that they don't like it. They're like, you know what? I'm gonna change this. Like, I'm I'm amazing. Like, there is no there is no one path for everyone. Like I said, you know, for me, I just lived in this industry for so long, and I saw the problem for 18 years.
You know, that was my my journey, but you have to believe You have to you know, a lot of people talk to you about how, you know, you have to even when there are days when you don't believe you have to. You know, and that's it's such a critical thing. Like, you because otherwise, it's really easy to quit. I I listen to a bunch of different podcasts. You know, every company has, like, 3 or 4 near death experiences.
It just comes along with the territory, and it's just how you respond how you respond matters so much more than anything else. Yeah. Then the actual circumstances. You're a 100% right. Okay. So I'm in this moment. I'm really struggling with my belief. I'm even possibly considering quitting. What do I do? You double down, you don't quit, you analyze, like, you know, what's our move? You always have a move. We reached that point a few times. And we figured out a move.
You know, I listened to a really smart, venture capitalist. Her name is Sarah Table with Benchmark. They are like, top 5 VCs in Silicon Valley. And I was listening to her and talk about how, you know, things come up in your business. Do you think it's existential? It's not, you know, it just forces you to to come up with a solution. And when you do that, it always makes you stronger. Always. And, you know, we've had a couple of those instances, especially over money early on.
And we figured out a a temporary solution and it helped you know, make us more, you know, resolute for other things that came down. Yeah. It makes me think of a podcast that Alex from Ozi was on in the last couple 2, 3 months. And he's talking about if I had to, you know, create a circumstance that was gonna build the man that I wanted to become, identify who I want to become, and I'm gonna build that man, Wolfe I give him easy circumstances? Would I give him a business that wins automatically?
Would I, you know, like, would we want that for our children at to your point about the football earlier, it's like no. Actually, I'd probably put him in circumstances that challenged his resolve, that created a situation where it made him want it even more and allowed him to press through, to maybe not. Win it on his first time because it should make you want it even more the second. That's rude. Yeah. Any comments on, on that type of mindset? No. I mean, what what's the quote?
I'll I'll butcher it, but it's like hard times make weaker soft men, you know, soft make hard times. Like, it's so true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and so on that, yeah, kind of like that that mindset of that eventually. I mean and I think the stat say eventually wealth is lost in the 3rd generation. Let's talk about that for a second because you've got you've got kids. I've got kids. Clearly, we're not trying to just give our kids the silver spoon. I think we can both agree on that.
Mhmm. But the other end of the spectrum, what I have found is that if you don't give them anything, then they're just blazing literally the same trail that you just blazed, and that to me is just the dumbest thing ever. How is there a middle? How do you find the middle? Yeah. I I don't know. It's a lot of trial and error because kids are all different. Right? Their personalities are different. You know, Chaz is the parenting is so so damn difficult.
I I find business to be really easy compared to parenting. That's honest. Do you know? You're right. Because you you don't want it to be easy, and you have to, like, lay back and let them fail, but you don't want them to fail. You don't want them to fail too bad. Like, I have, my oldest son, and I have 2 daughters you know, completely different personalities. I think my son's more sensitive. And so he struggles with confidence you know, my my youngest daughter is a total boss.
So I don't have to worry about her failing because she'll probably just, like, talk a teacher into doing something. Yeah. So but, yeah, it it's it's really difficult. And, you know, it's you just gotta find your way through it. You have to be able to change your tactic. You know, you have to be able to, you know, I think back to sports. I'll I'll share a a story about probably the best coach I ever had. He coaches, he was my high school basketball coach. He coaches at University of Richmond now.
We are really good in high school. We won, like, the district in Philadelphia, which is a big deal when I was a junior. So going into my senior year, we had very high expectations. We come out. We lose our first two games. It was just, like, kinda devastating. And we all we had Sunday morning practice at, like, 6 AM. And everyone was dreading that Sunday morning practice. Like, we're gonna die. And he comes in and he had a football.
He's like, we're gonna pick teams and we're gonna play football. And he was like, okay. And then I think we won, like, 15 in a row after that or something. But, you know, it's the ability to be present and the ability to kinda read the room, you know, and I think that's important with, like, kids and also with business too. Right? Like, understanding where they are in that moment. Like, it doesn't do any good if they if you're my son has kinda struggled with confidence.
He's kinda beaten down to hammer him. How how could you, you know, how could you get a d on that test or whatever it is? Like, well, he doesn't wanna get a d, but you know, knowing when to support, knowing when to push, you know, it's hard. You know, you don't really know because, you know, we have it, you know, at least with business, you know, we can pull, we can reference, like, you know, 5 years ago, we encountered this problem, blah blah blah. With parenting, there is no real guide.
Like, I can't Yeah. My son's only 13 once. Right? You know, my daughter's only, you know, 11. So you just kinda have to feel it out and try to do the best you can and hope that it works out. Yeah. I mean, I think that that's leadership in general. We're trying to do the best we Chaz, but inside of that, I heard you say a few minutes ago always trying to get better. And even in those phrases that you just gave to us, I hear I hear you trying to get better as a dad, but also as a leader.
How are you showing? And, again, I love this kinda back and forth that we're playing in family and business, but how are you showing up as a person that's, like, always getting better, but then how does that look, or how are you trying to portray that to employees or your partners? Partners, VCs, whatever it is, and and also your family. Yeah. I think it's, the first important piece is being genuine and being a real person, like, not shying away from, you know, like, making mistakes.
I think that is the probably the most important because in order to get better, you have to acknowledge that you didn't do a good job. You know, that you failed. There yet. Right. And, and so I I experienced that in my career, we made a a the company I used to work for made a major management management change with the president, and then I inherited the role and I had to oversee a couple. I do oversee service. I'd never worked within service.
And You know, very early on, I met with all of the leaders of our service department, and I told him, I don't know service. You know it better than me. So I'm gonna lean on you to to help, take ownership in what we need to change. And I think some people look at that as weakness, which is a major mistake. And I could just see you know, the air in the room, like, oh, okay. Now my opinion is being valued, and it helped.
It helped me learn about what needed to be fixed, but also helped me lead And so I think, you know, not pretending that you have all the answers in every aspect is really important. Leaning, you know, Porturing that to your kids, I think, is important. Like, hey, you know, because I think all kids good to a certain point where they're like, they come to a realization, like, their parents are moral people too, but they don't have all the answers.
So you might as well, let them in on that a little earlier, because I think it just it just changes the dynamic and allows you, to improve and, you know, later on in life, I'm more open to trying new things and failing than I was when I was younger. What do you think that is? It's coming. I I think it was just more of, like, that self realization of I don't have to be the best at everything.
And but if I do wanna be great, I've gotta, like, go back to a beginner's mindset and and try new things and then work on my weaknesses because then ultimately it makes you better and stronger. Yeah. I have this phrase that I use inside of, Gathering the Kings call it's the phrase is grateful, but not done. And and I can give a little bit of perspective there, but this is the first time that you've heard that. What are your thoughts when you hear? Grateful, but not done. Yeah. I I love it.
I connect with it because You know, and I always feel like I'm never done. Yeah. There's always more. Right? Like, you know, I listen to a a deal with some of David Goggins at all. Oh, yeah. You know, that that guy, you're always just seeking a little bit more. A little bit more. Yeah. So grateful for where you are, but, yeah, not done. I love that. I that that resonates with me a lot. Yeah. The, the Goggins, topic, really. We'll just call it a topic because that's that's really what it is.
We were we were just in, Saint George, Utah, and hiking in Zion National Park, and, some incredible, yeah, just beautiful. And one of the guys in, you know, the peer to group He just ran a 50 k, Ultra, and the trip was before this. And so he was preparing, getting up early every morning, and running and all that stuff. So we're up hiking, and he's like, you know, Goggins has probably already been over here. Goggins is, you know, the yeah.
Which I loved every second of it because there's that one. I don't even know if maybe it's Joe Rogan, but he's like, you know, we we landed on oh, it's it's Elon. We landed on the moon. Yep. Or on Mars rather. And and Goggin's already been there. He's run all over the place. You know? I did hear that. I love that. That's right. Yeah. I think it just puts it into perspective. Obviously, he's a a huge excuse remover.
This mindset of Chaz, there's always another level for me, it's like, well, if I'm literally admitting to the fact that I wanna go to another level, it means I'm not there yet. Right. Isn't that in itself a level of humility to know that, like, I haven't arrived, even though I might know what I know and be confident with what I know and be confident with the success that I have. There's another level. Definitely. Right? There's always another level. Always. Yeah. And you know what?
I try to, like, learn from everyone that I interact with, you know, junior people, you know, it doesn't always have to be like a mentor type, individual. Like, there's people have unique perspectives, and that's something that you can always try to find something you can pick up from somebody else. Yeah. Exactly. I'm gonna use this opportunity to transition to, a topic that's very close to me, but I can tell that it's probably gonna be, top of the tongue for you as well.
I like the word obsession. And I like going all in on my business, but I'm also a fan of going all in on my kids. We've already talked about that. My marriage and my health and my faith and, you know, all the other areas of life. Tell me how you are going all in. You're in the first couple you know, years where it's still of entrepreneurship, and you're obviously obsessed. You've already clearly, articulated that. Yep. But how are you also obsessed in all the other areas kinda at the same time?
It's very difficult. You know, if you had my wife on, she probably would tell you that I'm not. I'm obsessed in other areas. Hey. That's honest. Yeah. It's really, really difficult, to be present and to have all of the to be obsessed in all the different areas because my mind is always, you know, thinking of, like, the next move in business, It's something I struggle with, frankly. Yeah, because I don't I don't know how you can be balanced, especially early.
You know, maybe a few years from now, it'll be easier. When we have this thing on a, you know, more of a rhythm and, you know, you know, I feel like we're not grinding every day, but It it it just try to be, devoted and present in that moment. Which is very difficult for me. Yeah. Yeah. I think as high performers, we're naturally gonna be thinking ahead anyway. And so it's tough to be present. And then on top of that, you're right. Business, life, marriage, faith.
I mean, all those things have seasons. And so, yeah, it's really tough to build a a really successful business without being completely, like, you know, double down, as you said earlier. And you're really, like, in that midst of it now. I mean, even though you guys are doing well, you're in a double down season. I appreciate the honesty there because I think that that actually will free a lot of the the audience because I can remember those moments for me, even.
And a lot of the time was just conversation with my wife around I'm working this, and then I'm coming here, and then I'm gonna go back to work here and and trying to give some sort of a light at the end of the tunnel, but knowing how she can support me or how she can, you know, work with, you know, work within the, the goal, really, because it's not just you. Yeah. I see. I mean, yes, you're the only one at work. Right?
It. What what seems to help recently is being open about what what I'm doing it for. You know, like, Yeah. We've had this discussion recently in our household where I'm like, look, I'm doing this for us, you know, for for the kids, for you. Like, I'm not doing this for personal, glory or wealth or, you know, I'm doing this for us. And, you know, that I think has helped a little bit take the pressure off because, like, look, everyone who started a business, I'm sure you're no different.
You know, they're There is do you have some of those hard conversations at home where it's like, hey. You're not present. You're more focused on this and this and this. And we all have those discussions. And so I don't know. It's just part of the deal. You just have to accept it and and try to you know, figure out, what works best for everybody. Yeah. You're spot on. You're gonna continue to grow on that area because I already know that you have a belief that there's another level.
Another level to go to in marriage with your wife and and and family with your kids. Same thing for all the other areas. And so it's like, you know, they may not all be on a level 10 all at the same time. But there's always another level, and so I'm always constantly pushing. I gotta push this one up and then push this one up and I push this one up. And, sometimes that just looks different, you know, at different times. Communication being one of those, very key components. Come on.
When Chaz communication not been the component in leadership and business, basketball? Chaz doesn't even matter. You know? A 100% in everything. And literally everything. Alright. Well, let's talk about, let's talk about the the team building aspect of your business your you've got kinda several components. Love team. I wanna know your yeah.
I wanna know your your idea on team building it within your business, but then how does that team then connect the other pieces because you're playing matchmaker again. So there are a lot of people, a lot of communication, a lot of team building going on. Love team building. You know, this has been one of my most, the most, my favorite parts. What I the company I used to work for, 300 employees, it was really frustrating because we didn't choose them. You know, I was a part of an organization.
You're just gonna have x percentage of people who are gonna have a certain mindset. This is always how we're we do things available. And you get I felt like I couldn't change or impact the overall organization beyond a certain point. The most fun part about starting a a company from scratch is that you get to choose everyone you work with, and it's you set the imprint. I have loved this part. The number one thing for me is passion. It's not experience.
It's especially with a a startup company, you have to find people who share the passion and the problem that you're solving because you know it's gonna be hard. It's funny. Like, we brought in a couple salespeople. So we raised, Silicon Valley venture capital. It was a huge deal for us, and it was in August. It closed. And so we were able to start hiring salespeople. And, you know, which I wanted salespeople who are in the industry who knew the pain of the problem. So we found a few.
And I remember, early on in the recruiting process, they they're like, oh, this is gonna be easy to I love this, which is great. You know, what you want? But I, you know, myself and our head of sales, we told him, like, look, I we appreciate that. But it's gonna be a lot harder than what you think because we're changing people's habits and behavior. And I just we hired it.
We hired them and because we knew that they were so passionate about what we were doing, and it helped because they didn't hit it out of the park the 1st 90 days. But we we knew from the passion that, you know, they just they're gonna stick with it, and it didn't matter how many nose they got. They knew the value that we are providing. So passion is number 1.
And Yeah. Just, being able to bring like minded people in, that you see they know that they're changing an industry, and it's just it's fantastic. It it brings so much energy. We're building the culture whereas, like, you're when you're an existing organization, the culture's kinda set, and it's really, really difficult to change a culture, you know, once it's kind of deep rooted. So, like, those parts have been really a lot of fun.
Yeah. It it the, example is you gave a few minutes ago of stacking the little kids football team in essence. That's what you get to do in business now. Yeah. Exactly. But for the right reasons. For the right reason. Not for yeah. Exactly. Okay. What just real quick here, just tactical follow-up on this. Is there a particular, obviously, you said relationships. You're you're kinda reaching back into your previous relationships.
Any anything else that you're doing, whether it be recruiting, hiring, culture building Chaz you can just give a couple of nuggets here for the listener? Yeah. You know, culture building is really important to me. It it's important to set you know, to lead by example. Right? Like, you know, I try to make sure that, you know, I don't ask anyone else on the team to do something that I'm not willing to do myself.
I think that's very important, you know, I wanna set the direction, but I also wanna still get my hands dirty in every aspect. Like, I I think yeah, I've been a part of organizations before that are very top down and it's cancerous.
And, and you people, they respond best when they know that you give a shit about them performing at their top And I think that's what breeds really successful culture is, you know, our salespeople know that, you know, I want them to do Wolfe, and then I will do anything that I possibly can to help them. You know? And, you know, at at all different levels of realization, you have to you want everybody want to feel responsible in the success of the organization.
And so that's really culture building is so important. And, something that I pay very close attention to and, you know, it's a daily, you know, kinda checking for me. Yeah. It makes me think of, there's a certain there's several points, but there's a certain point in, the last dance, and Michael is like, Look, man. I was gonna I'm this is the way I played. Okay. Yeah. And I, not only wanted to win, but I wanted them to win. I wanted us to experience championships.
And if you didn't wanna play like that, that's fine. But, like, when you're gonna be around me, That's how we're freaking playing. Yeah. And I I remember that exact quote. I was a huge Jordan fan, huge bulls fan, and There's nothing better than experiencing success and winning with a group of people. You know, I think it is better because you have someone to share it with You know, sometimes we need you reach individual success. Like, that's great.
That's what you want, but you look around and you know, it was just you. And so, like, I still, you know, some of my best friends are my cloud teammates, and we still get together and talk about, do you remember, you know, when we achieve teams sets. It's just, it's an incredible feeling, and that's, I think, the best companies build that type of organization where everyone contributes. Everyone feels a part of it.
Yeah. Yeah. It's powerful when the when the group can get there, but we're also made for the group. We're we're like, that's how we're designed is to be part of something bigger than ourselves. And there's always that one agitator, like Jordan Yeah. Or like you and your organization, who agitates only the thoughts of the team, but is, like, literally raising the standard, raising the culture, raising the energy of the room. Everybody knows when they walk in. Yeah. Definitely.
And, you know, we always and I think we all have that example personally when we're younger. Like, you have to be pushed. You know, it's just human nature to seek comfort. It's human nature to but you know what? I did enough. And but we all have those situations where someone was like, no. You've gotta keep pushing a little bit more. Like I said, a little bit more. And then you're kind of you see exactly, oh, okay. Well, when I do give a little bit more, this is what happens.
And you need people like that in your organization who won't accept it. And who who get the best out of you. Yeah. Alright. Last question here for you. Alex, I gotta know that if we rewind the clock, You get to pick the age because I know you got some, different, segments of life that I'm sure you could probably pull from here, but rewind the clock. You get to tap on the younger Alex. Tap on a shoulder and you whisper in his ear. What do you say? Oh, what do I say? I don't know.
Things will happen the way that they're supposed to. Like, I I think when I was younger, I was in a rush. You know, I wanted things to happen. I think, you know, it's common for you to measure yourself against other people, which is not healthy. Oh, and I just I don't know. I've always been a person that had to learn, through my experience, learn the hard way. Like, I could read all this stuff, and I could you know, seek advice from all successful people, but I probably wasn't gonna follow it.
I had to I had to take the lumps myself. But that it will it'll happen according on the timeline that it's supposed to. And so, like I said, without certain scars, I wouldn't be in a position to take advantage of certain things today. So as much as I would like to have played in the NBA, it probably, you know, just didn't happen. And this is a great, opportunity here that had I not had scars, I probably wouldn't be able to take full advantage of Yeah.
Yeah. There's, a grateful perspective there, but, a not done attitude, for sure. Okay. How can how can we find you? Number 1, if we're an entrepreneur and we just wanna connect with you, or maybe we need your service. Maybe we're, either or needing equipment repaired, or maybe we're the repair guy. I'm active on the social media channels like LinkedIn. My my individual account. I'm very active. Active on Facebook. You know, my email, alex@hevapp.com. I'm very active there.
I answer pretty much anyone who reaches out to me that's not trying to sell me something. But, yeah, I'm I'm out there, you know, trying to to you know, build the brand and, be the front face of the company. So, you know, open to any and all reach out. Yeah. I appreciate that. We'll put all that in the show notes as well for them to be able to connect with you. I hope that they do because, obviously, your, top level guy. Just really appreciate you being here and your time away from your team.
Yeah. But to speak so highly of what you're doing and even just the pivot that you've made and the success that you're seeing, I just I love the authenticity that you brought here today. So thank you for that, Alex. Blessings to you and all that you're doing to your family and in your business, all the impact that you're making in an industry. Yeah. Thanks for being. Thanks, Chad. I appreciate the opportunity to come on and tell our story, to your audience. It's been awesome.
Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
What I have realized not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1000 Kings specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe, that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you, sharp qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gathering the kings dot com.
I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.