On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. In this moment, your imagination will only be limited by your confidence. So you need someone to lend you confidence in that moment because I guarantee you you're better than you think you are. You just need someone to remind you. Oh, I took out a lot of credits, the location, and then it wasn't working as well.
And I was like, Wolfe, I just need more time to figure it out, put more money in, put more money in, put more money and it was 1:37 in the morning. It was a Wednesday. I was wide awake, sweating, staring up at the ceiling fan over our bed going wholly, you know what, if only everyone knew how screwed we What's up everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, gathering the Kings podcast, coming back to you here today.
I've always got special guests, But this one, I've been looking forward to I look forward to a lot of them, though. I mean, I say that sometimes. I'm like, but Tim, I have been looking forward to this conversation. We've got Tim Elise here on the King stage. I am just so excited, Tim. Thanks for being here. Oh, thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it as well.
You know, you have an interesting background, and and I want you to to tell us about Chaz, but, tell us what kind of business that you have first, Tim. Yeah. So, I run consulting, and coaching business right now, and that sounds like everybody else. But effectively, where I have found my niche is over the last 2 decades of raising capital and selling businesses and and making money and losing money and probably, you know, losing sleep and all the other things.
I have found that I have been call to being a co collaborator or a collaboration partner with entrepreneurs that are looking to grow. So my niche is I am like the number two guy that when you're laying in bed at night going, god, I really wish I could talk to someone who I'm not worried about being bullish in front of who's been there, done some of these things to give me insights. Yeah. That's the guy I wanna be.
And so I I welcome to to share hopefully what I can with the community I I have to drop this soon and quick because you're you you know, marketing like I do, but you've you've worked with some names. Are you able to are you able to share name drop here on us so that the listeners know who what kind of caliber person that they're talking to here. Sure. So I'll I'll go with the one that most people know most recently.
I was number 2 and member of the executive team over at gym Launch alongside Alex and Layler Hormoisie, a business that we grew from 0 to, being sold almost 2 years ago now, to a private equity firm for, a a high eight figure number for a, a small pretty, stake in. But even before that, I've had the great chance to either work with or work alongside, 2 billionaires.
And so I just I take that both for the name drop piece because you gave me permission, but also because it's given me in sites throughout my career into kind of the the mindsets, the manifestations of of some of these folks and seeing how they do what they do I I believe in kind of this idea of leveling the field, which is bringing the knowledge and concepts of those that are super successful Chaz we kind of at and try to model and bring those down to folks
that are might be earlier in the journey, or just starting and and can learn from those things. Yeah. I, love every every part of what you're saying. I think that, that's why you're here on the show because it's in essence what the show does as well. You're probably gonna be able to give us some, unique insights, though, based on those those 3 kind of examples of of experience that you have. I'm sure you've got plenty of other that you'll be able to pull from here today as well.
You've kinda got a unique perspective here because as an entrepreneur, as a driver, as a pusher, you you've kinda, like you said, taken this niche into this number 2, which a lot of entrepreneurs are like, I don't wanna be number 2. I wanna be number 1. So talk to us about that first. Why is that in poor to not only for an entrepreneur to have a number 2, but then give us the personal part of it. Like, why why does that make sense for you?
Yeah. So I think it's critically important because, you know, entrepreneurial isolation and the kind of and and those that have been in see know exactly what I'm talking about when I say this, that time where you look in the mirror and go, holy, you know what? I am like like frozen in my feet. Not knowing what I should do next is the time when you want clarity confidence.
And so I believe that as a number 2, which sits kind of as a as a right hand man Wolfe to the number 1, different than a COO, and we can talk about those differences, but it's it's truly a trusted collaborator, collaborative partner so that the number one becomes the they, you know, he or she can be. But from my perspective, growing up, I always knew I wanted to be kinda in the investment community in general.
That was the environment that I grew up in, but very differently from some of the other people I got to meet and the the kind of sense I got in the room was, you know, we use these terms, like, you know, you're you're entering the coliseum. It's fight, you know, all of those types of things. And in my core, I always skewed a little bit more, to the kind of the emotional side, like the the offter side of that, which was I actually, you know, not everything has to be a battle.
Not everything is, I when you lose kind of dynamic. Sure. And so I I wanted to figure out how could I both kind of plot a course for myself, learn some things, earn my way in, but then be able to take that and do it in a in collaborative way. You know, we we've talked about Alex a moment ago. You know, Alex is the type of guy who can sit in a room by himself and come up with these amazing concepts. I'm I process out loud. I I this is kind of much more my jam.
And so doing things alone was just never kind of how I wanted to do things. I like seeing if you go to my website, the headline says I help founders, dreams come true. And for some reason, that been a theme for me for the last 20 years or so, where I don't wanna be the guy in lights. I wanna be the guy behind the guy. And I just love watching some else be able to to meet those those, those high expectations and high standards that they've set for themselves.
Yeah. I think it's actually an incredible, show of self awareness and skill set. And I and so I actually want the listener to kinda pay attention to what I'm about to say. I want them to really pay attention to to the show, but, like, just for a half second, what Tim is saying, I think, is just this extreme. Like, you have the skill sets. You have the experience. You have the knowledge to be able to go crush pretty much anything that you wanted to.
But for you to be able to hone in on, like, this is who I'm made to be or my calling, as you say, kinda before we hit the recording button, it's like, okay. No. Like, I this is my lane. I know where to go. I know that I serve best here. And I think that that message can be applied to all the listeners. Like, if you just can know your, like, what you're made then you can just run really hard, and you don't have to worry about the rest. No. There's always the rest needs this to be taken care of.
Sure. But that ideally, that's for somebody else on this collaborative team. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And and the the other part I was thinking about, like, what would my headline be for, you know, a conversation like this? And and what I've the theme I've come up with is some version of, I believe the way people build businesses is wrong. They do it wrong.
Home. So if you if I have a point of view, which is different than the kind of the populace, if you Wolfe, I believe I can sit that number 2 seat and both give you the strategy. I can give you the reason. I can give you the experience. I can give you the insights. And say, here is how I perceive the future to be best achieved. You as the number one can say, does that fit me? You know, is that where I wanna go?
I I really do enjoy, and I I do feel that I'm I'm a call to taking this, as we before we got on, you know, the the last kind of 20 plus years of blood, sweat, and tears. Bruises, and try to help somebody else avoid some of those foreseeable mistakes. Cause they just see it time and time again. And the the most common version of this is I'm gonna sacrifice everything for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow when I sell my business. Right. Which potentially never even happens.
98% of the time never happens. 95 plus percent of the time doesn't happen to the extent that you feel makes it worth it for that sacrifice. So if that is if that kind of laying Chaz that road has already lined with bodies. What is it that we're missing and how can we do it differently? Yeah. I mean, that that that headline right there is I've I've we grabbed some attention with that one. Okay. Well, let's talk for half second.
You mentioned, number 2, maybe a strategic number 2, like you, different than a CO owe. Help us understand. Yeah. So most people think, I need to build up my C suite, but if, my my kind of focus is 500,000 to 3,000,000 a year in revenue. So kind of already started, but not quite blown up yet. Yeah. And a lot of times Chaz business is not mature enough to build out someone of that caliber in a lot of ways. So at that point, you know, you're still kinda you're in the go to market stage.
You're in the finding product market fit. You know, I think in this general, in this day and age, a lot of people are, are focused on finding specialists But I believe in my heart that that actually misses a lot of the point early on because you can optimize in 1, you know, 1, vertical, if you Wolfe. Without taking into consideration the others, you're gonna have a really hard time. So, my part is I work for the for the CEO or the founder don't work for the company. And that is really important.
Interesting. Because if you have ever found yourself in a situation like I need to work through this, I can't go to my team because as you've probably all heard, you know, the team needs guidance. They need clarity. They need confidence just like we do, but we can't always think out loud. Right. So this kinda happens behind closed doors. Let's figure it out.
And then I also help build the strategy so that you can go to the team with a or concise confident answer and that they can fall in line behind you. Yeah. And so this kind of figuring at out stage is one that I believe has to happen, in a in a way that is confident both for you as the number one to be able to disclose. Like, I have no idea what the heck I'm doing here. I have no idea what to do. You wouldn't go to your team and say, I'm we're directionless guys. It just won't happen. Right?
Yeah. But we can we can work through a lot of those things. And the reason why that's also important for someone like myself is I actually go have gone with the founder to to the next opportunity. So we've transitioned businesses before, and I've been part of the deal. Yeah. Like, I have to come along and I work him or her rather than rather than the company. Yeah. Makes sense.
It it's actually a there's a lot of parallel here, and I'm sure we'll have a chance to talk about after the show and as our relationship unfolds, but a lot of the same language that isolation and having that place for a CEO to be able to go to is why gathering the exists. Now different different solution, you're talking about a a a specific relationship 101, strategic, and and all that and get rather than the Kings is more, community based, but still the same kind of shakes it all down.
But, you're you're a 100% right. Most per newers are in a place. I was just thinking about this because I'm having a a a video made. And it's like, man, this that isolation gets real. Depression, ADHD. Like, unfortunately sometimes suicide. Like, it is it is a it is a tough road to be an entrepreneur and then even tougher sometimes to find other people a number 2 or community that actually wanna support you and it's not just a big conference. You know?
Like, there's a difference between what you're talking about, having like, 101, strategic, like, this is who I go to or a group for that matter. That's different than going to a business conference. That's not really the release that we're talking about You wanna explain even just a little bit further a little bit more on the emotional piece of Chaz isolation? Yeah. So I think there's there's two pieces that would come out for me on that.
So the first is, you know, a lot of the the hang ups that we have are between our ears. Right? So you just go to a conference and you can learn tactics and you can learn all the, you know, in new information. I don't think any of us are short on information right now. What we are short on Chaz insights. And so the first is like let's work through, you know, kind of the whether they be, you know, behavioral traits, beliefs, whatever it might be that that are holding you back. That's one.
But I can do it we do it in the form of insights. Just because it worked for someone else or it worked at a different point in time does not mean that it's right for you. So the difference between knowledge and insights are application and fit. Yeah. And we've all try we've all been here. Right? You watch it. You two video for someone who's a little further ahead. And then you go and try to do it, and it's like, oh, yeah. He made a $1,000,000,000 doing it. And I'm at 500,000. It's like, yeah.
Hire a team of see. It's the same thing that I hear all the time. Right? So, you know, you have to find a thing that is right for you in the context in the moment. And that really does take kind of structured thinking, and insights based on, you know, a a number of different factors. Yeah. It actually makes me think of a video that that Alex put out not too long ago. About, you know, people focusing on the wrong part of the journey.
They they see the billionaire and that he has this long morning routine and works out at 9 AM him and, you know, doesn't get started until 3 and only has one meeting a day or whatever the scenario is. And it's like, well, that that part of his journey isn't what you should be emulating. It's 10 years ago or 20 years ago. It's it's the come up, as he said. So give some of some of the practicals that you're working through with your clients, maybe.
Yeah. Again, that 500,000 to 3,000,000 is a good chunk of most businesses out there. It's probably who's listening right now. So what are some of the things that you're working through that they in that come up, that they should be implementing or having good insights on? Yeah. So I I've run, what I call the police clarity process, which is basically capture. K. Ignoreage. Look at it. Get it. Get a little. There we go. I gotta thumb up.
So, capture, acknowledge, learn, implement, system size and execute. And so the reason why this is important is because the first step is diagnostic. K. How often do we take action, you wouldn't walk into an emergency room. And nobody look at you, ask you any questions and go, alright. We're going to the ER. We're we're, you know, it's surgery time. Right. You'd go, woah. Woah. You don't even know what's wrong with me. So we diagnose first, which is like where are we?
Yeah. Then we look at where we're going. And we reverse engineer the process backwards. And so the primary kind of levers that we have, I believe product is the only thing that matters in that $500,000 to $3,000,000 rate is what products do we have and how do we use them to, profitably acquire new clients? And it and hold on to the ones that we have. So that's where I play mostly, which is the product matters more than anything else.
A lot of people try to go to marketing and advertise and things like that. But I work primarily in service businesses, especially ones with recurring revenue. So subscriptions, memberships, things like that, where we make a single sale to get the customer, not the customer to get the sale. Right. And then we take that relationship and we build upon it to drive LTV. Yeah. Lifetime value.
It's very it's it's simple, not easy, but there are frameworks that are, you know, that we go through to to make sure that we can pinpoint those those highest leverage entities. Yeah. Talk to us for a half second here because you're you're spot on with, you know, some of the value here on product or or the or the service rather. Basically, if you're selling crap, it doesn't really matter how great your marketing is. You'll sell a bunch. You won't be around for very long.
And so you might have a flash. You might make some quick money, but it won't be a real business. And so I'm hearing you. Okay. Cool. What do you have for the listener in that as far as to kind of reshape their mind if they are on the marketing sales side. I mean, you're talking to a marketing sales guy, you know, from, like, 20 plus years. The problem is always sales, you know, to guys like us. But but the value of the product is something that I think a lot of people are catching on to.
Like, they're they're paying attention more to this. Okay. Like, maybe it actually has to be really good. That had to be perfect. There's gonna be version 2 and a version 3 and a version 4. But where where is the balance here and not being so focused over here and selling crap, but not having it to be perfect either. Yeah. So if you're in this kind of range and you feel stuck or you feel like and I use the the phrase, which is common, you know, product market fit.
Product market fit means the thing you're offering fits the needs and desires and aspirations of the person you're talking to. Yeah. Very simple. The the problem that I see most people is, or the thing that holds them back is early on, they try to create the perfect product in vacuum. And then they go and try to find the audience that resonates with the thing they built. Got it. So I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you 2 action items here.
Number 1, if this is in if you fit this category and you're feeling like I'm not quite there yet, the only metric that matters is the number of offers that you make. I'll say it again. The only metric that matters is the number of offers that you make. And the reason why that is is because successful businesses don't know anything different than you. They just simply iterated faster than you.
And when businesses fail, it's because they ran out of resources, time, money, effort, emotion, etcetera, before they finished the iterative cycles enough times to find someone to buy. Yeah. That's so that's the first. The second is one theme that I have seen that I'm a big believer in right now is what we're kinda calling micro products.
And people and I actually fell victim to this myself a couple of years ago, which is we try to solve big problems in general ways for people when you have to kind of spoon feed the results to earn the confidence over time. So if you feel like you're still struggling, yeah, if you're struggling with, like, I have to market a lot or I'm not quite sure if it's resonating. Take your your process, if you will, or the service that you offer and take one component of it.
So if I had if I asked you the question, what is the one thing you do that can yield the biggest outcome with the least amount of risk, time, money, effort, etcetera. What is it? And we work through that one thing for quite a while. It's like, oh, all I would do, and a an example of this would be, you know, I can get someone to reach, you know, 25% of their goal in 5 minutes just by doing this one thing. Awesome. That is your micro product.
We're gonna name it something, and we're gonna go sell it. And you sell it might be give me your email address. Join me for a workshop, $49, $4000. It doesn't matter. But the point of it is you take a lead or someone who doesn't know you and doesn't know the problem they ultimately have and turn them into a customer. A customer is someone who has paid you some amount of money or giving you some thing of value. Yeah. You then earn the right to turn them into a client.
And I think so often we try to someone from being completely unaware of who we are and what we do and try to sell up our high ticket program or sell them into some core problem or, you know, product. It's just too big of a leap. People are way too skeptical these days. You have to earn the trust. And the way to do that is to demonstrate or document what it is you do and what it's like to work with you. Wolfe, I gotta tell you, Tim, first off, those answers are incredible.
I hope that the listener goes back and listens to those again, but we can be friends again because everything that you just said was an a sales solution. I love it. There you go. So it's sales in a in a in a what what I'm gonna call kind of authentic, you know, in an authentic way, where and what I said, I felt victim to this. I realized very about it 2 years ago that I was in this headspace of I have to create marketing content.
Yeah. And I have to create product content or, you know, kind of product. Yep. And I was like, why do they have to be different? They don't. They shouldn't. Is your point? They should. And for me, I was like, that tells me something. That means I'm either not portraying myself with authenticity or, you know, to the to the public or my product isn't exactly where I want it to be, and I'm making promises I can't deliver. And that was a reconciliation that had to happen.
And I think so many people kind of fit in that There's a there's cognitive dissonance there. There's a disconnect Yeah. That they're trying to cover up by, by separating those. Yeah. I also love in those answers Chaz you gave. It wasn't just here's how to better market because that could have been construed. You have in order to have those things that you just said, gotta have an amazing product. You have to have the thing where in 25 minutes, I 5 x their thing, whatever your offer is.
Like, it has to be not only just the amazing actual headline, line or the title. It's gotta be something awesome. Yeah. But but the the critical part is that it you can do it in small because it can feel really overwhelming. Like, let me create a perfect product that someone will pay me for 36 months or whatever. It's like, right. Can you get someone who can give you my and feel within and actually the shorter the period, the better.
And in a day, a week, a month, feel like, oh, my this was the best money I ever spent. I will buy any thing from you. Yeah. The challenge Alex has talked about this, and it was something we we really instilled the gym launch, which was if the next customer you acquire, is the last one that you are allowed to acquire, and they have to bring the rest of your business forward What is the product that you provide? Yeah. It is a standard which is unreasonably high on purpose.
And we get hung up of like, that doesn't scale. I would never do that. How does it work? Like, create revenue before you add friction. Yeah. Sell something to someone, learn the process, iterate, and it'll get better. Yeah. One last distinction because again, you're just you're dropping nuggets on us. I absolutely love it. What you didn't say was go sell something fast, hurry quick, and never iterate.
I sell something so that I can learn so that I can make it better so that I can go sell the second guy and the third guy and the 4th Al. But, ideally, the product's getting better and better, and they're helping me sell also is what I'm hearing you say. It's it's the virtuous cycle, but you have to start somewhere, and that's why it's, like, do it for free for the first five people if they have to. Cause the value isn't the money. The value is the feedback. The learning.
And that is and that is the offer. The offer is Hey, and just as a an aside. For anybody who wants to who's thinking of starting something or doing something or creating something new, don't build it. Sell it first. Go to your audience and say, Hey, Jess. I'm thinking about doing this thing. It's gonna do this. It's gonna look at kinda like this. And if I had something like that with of interest to you. And if you're like, oh my gosh. If you built that, that would be amazing.
Oh, but I wish it would do this other thing. Oh, that's really good feedback. So if I built it and looked like this, would that be something you're interested in? Oh, yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Visa, Mastercard, American Express, I'll have it ready in 30 days. He'll be my first one. Yep. Exactly. I love it. Take the money, then throw it. We've got I've got a personal example on this.
I don't share very often on these shows, but inside of gathering the king, We just, we went from a a singular membership to a couple different levels. One of which we're launching is a wealth builder, kind of a next level up much larger commitment than what we've ever had before. And I pre launched it to my current members and was like, hey, guys. Here's what it here's what I'm thinking. What do you think? What do you like? Okay. Cool. And I'll do what it costs. Like, I was super honest.
Here's what it's gonna cost me to do this. And I literally won't make a dime on it, but I want you to move over here if if if this is interesting to you. And we had a tremendous response. And and so it's gonna be incredible for that example you just gave. Like, gonna be awesome. We're gonna have a lot of feedback there, but I'm not making money, for the first 7. Right? Your example of 5 is, like, the next 70 are are I'm gonna have in I'm gonna have such an incredible product.
It's already gonna be amazing. But to your point, it's gonna be that much better because this first group that already are in my circle anyway. They're gonna give me straight feedback anyway. But I'm gonna get get it first hand to your point, and we're gonna make this program, just incredible. Yeah. Yeah. And that point that you just made is the critical one, which is you basically, quote, unquote, gave away profit on the first 7 to make sure that you have product market fit.
You know, you can fit the audience. So many of us have sat there and tried to sell the first 7. It might take you 10 years to sell the first 7 because it's just not right. Right? So you just you collapsed time by doing Chaz. And I think that is the thing. That is the takeaway that I heard, which is If you're kinda have this, like, friction point of, like, nobody's buying, it's like, well, that's because it's you just have to iterate. You gotta you might have to give it away.
You might have to mark it down in the beginning. And it does get it forever. Yeah. Exactly. And I I think even another point there just for the listener's sake is because I'm sure you've seen this as well. I probably didn't have to do that with the with with the members that already I already have their trust. I've already given them immense value. They're already, you know, exchanging commerce with me.
But I but I still wanted to do it exactly how you're describing it because I felt like that would be valuable to not only them. Like, I would it would make it that much more valuable, and I would have them that much more on my team. And promoting me and becoming a promoter, but it would it would it just felt right for me. That first section to to do what you're saying is just goodwill in business. Hey, Kings and Queens. Chaz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me.
We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too. So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things. On social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify.
We would love to be able to get our content into more hands more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible. Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So Let's do this. Let's help each other. Let's help each other grow. Let's talk about a good decision.
We've talked about, you know, some cool things that you've done and some that that you do with your what particularly one thing that you can reach back into your history? Just a super good decision and you try to repeat it and you would have any of your clients repeat it. Just super practical. So a theme in my life in general, but especially my professional life is I have very distinct chapters Okay. That make up the last 20 years.
As I said earlier, I grew up in an environment where my dad was in professional service. He he was he worked for a large bank. And so I grew up with this thinking, rightly or wrongly, that there was a way that things were supposed to go. Sure. That led me post college. I studied economics, finance, those types of things. And I ended up at a large bank, and I'm about 6 months in. I could tell that this, like, I was not long for this world.
Right. So the best decision I ever made at that time was to go with my gut and not my head. And I bet on myself, and I think earlier in my life, this is a theme. It remains a theme to today, but earlier in my life, especially. So I left a track at a large bank, which would have probably been a very easy, quote, unquote easy pack of block. And I I grew up in New York. I went to school in Washington, that's where I was working at this bank. And I moved to Birmingham, Alabama of all places.
Having never been there Yeah. To join a guy to start a hedge on. This is 2004 ish time frame. And the hedge funds at that time were like entrepreneurship today. It was the Wolfe It was where the smartest of the smart guys were going. And I was like, I just wanna be there. It maybe it was like, you know, tech, you know, late nineties. Like, that was where everybody was. And started a fund.
A partner and I started a fund with about $750,000, committed, which is next enough That's like saying that, you know, I have $5 in sales. And then over the course of three and a half years, went out and raised over 325 dollars for that fund at in my early twenties. For me, that was the best decision I ever made because it both validated for me that I could fall this kind of gut feeling that I had. Number 1. Yep. And number 2, I showed the betting on myself. I can figure stuff out.
Yeah. And those themes have remained consistent throughout. And we actually voluntarily shut that fund down, that firm down, and it before the 2008 market crash. And then I started something totally new. Same thing. Bet on my get bet on myself again, followed my gut, and that actually led me into fitness and franchise, technology, and ultimately to Alex and Latelyn and that chapter. And now I'm into the 3rd chapter of my professional life.
And so for anyone listening, I would I would just go I I think those themes being that Wolfe where, Wolfe awareness is important, but also not being afraid to kinda hand the hand the cards back in and get a new hand. Yeah. I agree with you. What do you think that came from? Like, you just making a good decision, betting on yourself, like, you've rolled off your tongue so easily. But why what was either the beliefs that you had or the skill sets and maybe even where did those come from?
Yeah. I from a very early age, I can remember, I never had that feeling of, like, I lose it all, Chaz, like, that, that there's like some death punch or something like that that's gonna take me out of the game. I was the kid who probably know, I and growing up, I was an okay student. I was definitely not top of my class and all of that kind of stuff.
But I always was I always felt like I couldn't identify with my peers, but I could I could talk to adults significantly better than than my friends. And so I just felt I felt this confidence in that there wasn't really a, you know, there wasn't any risk that I could take that was going to, you know, kind of put me down forever. And I think that even to this day, and I think other entrepreneurs have said it, like, if I lost it all today, I Chaz make it all back again.
It's easy to say, come to 20 years later, but at Chaz at that time. It was a very calculated risk. And I continue to believe that even if it didn't go right, very few things, even when and and I've had some fast forward after this. Sounds all like gravy. 10 years later, I bet it all on a fitness franchise effectively. Leverage, you know, put took out a line of credit on my house, the whole nine yards, and I have been at the bottom of Chaz.
Worse, you know, as a father at that point and a husband, laying in bed at night going, nobody knows how screwed we are. Yeah. So this is not all sunshine and rainbows, but I I have always had the gun wavering belief that it'll work out. And even in those darkest of times, the my my brain was probably my worst enemy. Reality. Yeah. I wanna get to that moment here. Before I do though, I wanna ask you about calculated risk because Yeah.
I I've used that phrase and I think a lot of entrepreneurs do, but I don't know if they know what that means truly. So in those moments, when you're thinking calculated or even you were hearing someone, you know, in the audience, they're like, hey, here's my business. And I'm thinking about trusting my gut, betting on myself, all the things that you've said. How do I insert calculate risk. Yep. So calculated risks are the ones where, you understand what the potential upside is.
And the downside is tolerable. So let me give you an example. I'm thinking about changing product. Because the pricing's not working. The delivery mechanism isn't working. Something like that. And you could say, I'm I I need to almost cannibalize my existing business for something that might be better. So you don't okay. I have a high ticket program right now. It's okay, but it's not where I I will literally this is exactly what I'm doing today. So I I can speak from first hand.
I run a high ticket coaching and consulting business. My belief is for me to generate the of emotional financial returns and impact, I need to go low ticket to some extent. I need to widen my audience. Because a 6, 7 figure type kind of one on one offering is is not gonna be, acceptable for everyone, but I want to be able have an impact. So I am rolling out a low ticket, call it hybrid 1 on 1 program.
And I will tell you right now probably going to have to move away from just about every one of my high ticket leads who are considering joining that program, who are on a wait list to join that program. I'm basically gonna have to shut them down and probably move them to this low ticket program, which is at a 95% discount. To what they're in line to to sign up for. It's the right thing to do. And I believe that my impact will be bigger.
So calculated risk is I could take money today Or I could end up with a business. It could be, you know, 3, 4, 5, 10 times as large, and actually much more in line with what I'm trying to do, ultimately. Sure. Yeah. Not gonna take me out of the game. Is it the right decision? It's the one I feel best about. Wolfe it shut my business down? No. But I also know what the outcome is.
And I think the difference between this decision as I make it today versus 20 years ago, I think in probability, today, not possibility. I'll say that again. It's probabilities versus possibilities. How often have we said like, well, if everything goes right, I can have all 10,000,000,000, you know, a $1,000,000,000 exit. Like, but what is probable? Yeah. And make it all work. It's possible. I don't like.
I I just don't like the idea of it because I just do believe that this kind of collaborative element is super important to me. Yeah. I'd rather have a hundred people it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%. I think that it actually shows that you're choosing what you called the right thing, but really more of just what you're calling is versus money. And I think you've had the ability to have some success and be able to go, you know what?
Yeah. Sure. Maybe I could do this and make good money, but my heart tells me to do this, or or my gut, maybe more to what you're describing first. So I appreciate that. Back to that moment where you're laying in bed. You're the only person in your world that knows ish is about to hit the fan. Your wife doesn't know probably at this point. Your team doesn't know. Tell us what why you were in this position. Tell us what you did after that. I'll I'll give you the context.
So after this investment company that I ran, my wife and I, who are division 1 athletes, wanna get back to kind of the health and fitness industry in general. And so we got into the gym business, and we got in with an early a nascent franchise in my now mid to late 20s. I was driven by ego more than anything else. And so I got into a system where I was really good.
And we built one location and we built a second and a third, and it was 100% driven by and I I I probably lied to myself at the time. It was, I wanna have a bigger impact. At the time, it was, I wanna be the king on the hill. And the biggest guy in the system had five units of this chain. So I was like, well, heck.
I can run 1, then I can run 2, and I can run 3. I got to 8, and it was so evident if I was honest with myself Chaz I was basically like a runaway train Chaz I just kept adding more thinking I could figure it out. And that betting on myself kind of concept from a few minutes ago. This is where it can go wrong. I was just like, I'm just because I was not taking calculated risk, I was taking just cheer, you know, possibility risk.
And so that led me to being like, well, I'm gonna self finance this in the whole nine yards. So I took out a lot of credit to build a location, and then it wasn't working as well. And I was like, well, I just need more time to figure it out. So put more money in, put more money in, put more money in, And it was 1:37 in the morning. It was a Wednesday, and it was I was wide awake sweating staring up at the ceiling fan over our bed, going, holy. You know what?
If only everyone knew how screwed we are, the next day 5 of my bean people quit. And it was professionally and personally the low you you you kind of hear those things where people don't quit companies. They they quit managers. The Band Aid was completely ripped off in like a 24 hour period. It was like, you are you've lost it. Like, literally lost it. Lost it. All lost it. Mentally lost the team.
And I it it took me to a point where personally I had to basically rebuild I was because I was motivated by the wrong things and showing up in the wrong way and things like that. And we ended up selling that house. Closed the locations, made it work, and that was kind of the, I I I've always had from a very early time back in my investing days. There was this phrase that said sometimes you need to retreat to a position of strength.
And this was the we get taught this, you know, delivered the same lessons until we learn them. I learned I was delivered the lesson of, like, you need to you need to retreat to a position of strength because you're out of control. And it was the best thing Chaz ever happened to me.
In the moment, it was the worst thing that ever happened, but, I think everyone has gone through some version of whether it be personal, financial, psychological, men, or whatever it is, needing to learn the lessons that will ultimately pay the dividends to get you to where you would be. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, an incredible moments, really.
I have almost not the exact story, but similar and and maybe one day we'll be able to kinda go back and forth on on the notes on those moments for us. But for the guy or gal listening right now who's in that moment. What do you have for them? Because you you you didn't glaze over how it all unwound, but was the mindset to be able to unwind it and go to that safe place? Yep. So so two things.
One is it's always darkest the dawn, which sounds kind of flip, but it's never as bad as you probably believe it to be. If you got into the position chances are you can negotiate your way out, and that's honestly is is what I believed at that time. So that's the first. The second is I will say transformations don't happen in isolation. When things get rough, most people including entrepreneurs will go inward. Fight that dynamic, that feeling of I need to hunker down and isolate.
It is the exact opposite thing that you need to do. Swallow your pride. Call someone that you know who can help give you objectivity in the moment and say here's what here's where I am. Yep. I have this. You know, it's most of us in life are pursuing most people say retirement and financial security and all these what we really want is options. And in these moments, what happens is we feel we have no options. That's right.
So you need someone with objectivity to remind you and help tease out that you do have options because options were only limited by our imagination. And in this moment, your imagination will only be limited by your confidence. So you need someone to lend you confidence in that moment because I guarantee you you're better than you think you are. Just need someone to remind you.
Wow. The borrowed self confidence, so that you can have an imagination so that you can figure out options or borrow those as Wolfe, is what I'm hearing you just say in that moment. Absolutely. Super powerful. I think I think that the listener hopefully can not only being in that place, but, hopefully, they've been that other person Yeah. For another person. Yeah. I think we all know what both sides of that conversation sounds like. Yeah. And you're right. It is powerful.
What do you what do you think for you? You know, like, that same moment, the same mindset, the same frame, but, like, your wife and kids and health was obviously still a big deal for you. And you know, faith and lifestyle and all these, like, other things that are in our life, what did it look like for those? How did how did was there an impact on those? Did you have to be honest with those as well? Like, what did it look like? So I at the time Chaz 3 kids.
My youngest was very young, and they were kind of under the age of, like, four or five So at that point, kinda that it wasn't as big of a impact for them. It was just business as usual. Yeah. My health went to 0. Psychologically was I was just I just showed up frustrated and things like Chaz, but I definitely felt wrongly I needed to protect my wife at the time from reality. And my wife's tough. She's one of those, like, just tell me where we are. Like, I know who I married.
Know that I was going on a roller coaster. Just don't tell me, you know, that, you know, the sun is shining. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So and that was one of I I actually lean on on somebody else. And they said, like, listen. Can you just, like, just lay it all out? And this is actually a practice when we can talk about it, if helpful. The idea that that I had to I had to get reading out of my head and onto paper to be able to look at the reality objectively.
Because otherwise, it's just all stuff swirly in your head and you get stuck in these these, these kind of infinite loops. Right? So that's what I did. They're like, write it all down. The good, the bad, the ugly, what you think, the factors, the money, the, like, just lay it all out and then press and then he gave me a framework to walk through. And at the end of that, that's when I was, like, So, honey, we need to just I just need to tell you reality.
This is where we are, and here's how I think I'm gonna fix it. And this is what I need and, you know, things like that. And it worked out. It worked out from the standpoint of like how it solved the isolation. Right. Yep. And that's really what I needed because I felt like I was fighting this alone. Yeah. Yeah. It's so powerful. And that isolation even in the marriage can be, I mean, the opposite of that is the is the mastermind principle that you have with your wife.
You know, like Yeah. It and it and it can go go upwards or downwards or, you know, negative or positive. And so, I appreciate you sharing that. Supervulnerable. Somebody out there is in that spot right now. Know it. And so I too have been in that place. We've shut down franchises. Again, very similar story. And, you know, I have a tough wife too. And some things where I just and she even knows too. She actually said the other day, she goes, she asked me a question.
I was like, you know, like, no big deal or whatever my response was. And it really wasn't. And she asked. She's like, you kinging me right now? You know? Oh, very nice. And so to your point, like, not only can you have a wife that that can handle it, but then top of that, she knows that I intentionally still keep things from her, not not because I don't wanna share, but because I don't want her to have to carry the weight, even if it's not that big a deal. Why give it to her?
But there are sometimes in these moments here that Tim has given to us the the power that she can actually give to the situation even just by listening and helping you kinda process reality along with the other gentleman that you shared with, it is it is the ticket. It's the power. It's the literal Hill mastermind principal power that helps us obtain the actual thing that we want. Yep. Spot on. Yep. Okay. Well, that kinda leaves me next question around family.
So that was kind of in the in the dark moments, but, you know, like, I'm a big fan of what I call the exceptional life, and that's winning in all areas, which includes family and lifestyle and fitness and health and emotionally physically and all that stuff. And so, you know, my faith. And so it's like, how are you obsessing in all of those areas Wolfe building even a a new business that you're that you're transitioning your product.
You already told us that you're, like, literally in transition right now. How are you obsessing over all of these things at once? So I'll I'll give you kind of the the crib notes version. I used the word cliff notes before right after talking about Rolexes with a high school Yeah. Class Chaz I was mentoring, and they're like, like, it's the contact list in your phone. That's what a rolodex is. Like, they just had them on cards and stuff.
Yeah. So, so for me, I am, been married for almost 20 years. I have 3 kids that are now ten to fourteen years old, and I have purposely constructed my life around being present with them. And that's really important because I've turned down just, you know, tons of opportunities, which would require me to travel a ton and, you know, be at the whim of others and things like Chaz. And I've chosen not to do internally. And then I, about 6, 7 months ago, I have a mentor that I work with today.
And he has the type of lifestyle. I call it, you know, it's called this, like, the leverage life, that He was kinda forced upon him, but I asked him, kinda, what were the lessons? And what was the best thing he did to kinda work through this? I have the life. I don't want to the life that I do. And he you need to write an intention document. And I said, well, what the heck does that mean? He goes, this is where I came from. This is where I am. This is where I'm going.
This is what I will accept, and this is what I will not accept going forward. And I said, okay. I can do that. So I did it. He goes, I only told you half of the instruction. What do you mean? He goes, now I want you to pull up your Facebook and I want you to publish it to the world. So I did. So I have a you can find it on my Facebook profile, from about 6 months ago, and it is this is my intent This is the life I am going to build. This is how I'm going to do it.
And every one of the clients that I have now and every prospect is required. It is to to read that document. I give them the link and say, I just want you to know that this is how I work. And it's important because it says in there that I am not going to answer your phone calls at 11 o'clock at night. I am going to value coaching my kids soccer team over the fire that you might have. And you need to know Chaz. And here are the terms. And if it's not okay with you, I'm okay with that.
But it was really important for me if I'm, like, really being honest about it, forced me to be honest with myself about what it is I'm trying to build. It is my north star. So now when I go to my wife and say, I have this crazy idea. I was literally right before this call. I have an opportunity that's very close to violating some of the things that are on there. Like, It's more time. It's less flexibility, but I am turning it down.
It's the way that I have to stick to seeing the world and it evolves over time and things like that. It's not just a one and done. Sure. But it's my public call and manifest of, like, this is this is who I am, and this is what I'm doing. And I think everyone should have that. And it is a way to unite those parts of your life so that everything else doesn't get crowded out. But you might that's that whole life regret thing later in life. Right?
It's because the things that you ultimately value later on get crowded out by the things that are short term. Yeah. Depends on your time. Yeah. I I the picture of where you've come from, where you are, and where you're going, I think, again, going back some of the, language that Alex has used is just making decisions over greater timelines or time horizons. Yep. That's what I that's why I see you saying you're saying no to this client because that's a short term decision.
And you're saying yes to coaching your your kids or whatever else is that manifesto? Yeah. I think it's, you know, so Alex talks about timelines because I and I I agree with this Chaz we we try to go for the short term win when we miss the big context and things like that. But actually, keep this book next to me. If if you have not read, buy back your time by Dan Martell, this is critical to the process. And I recommend anyone, Dan has Chaz been a mentor of Alex's and others.
In my circle, phenomenal book, and it's really around how do you kind of structure the life that you want. Because a lot of people try to get there and do it in different ways. And this is the best way that I found to, to be able to execute against that. That mentor, that gave you Chaz, if if he were I I mean, I'm sure you've probably shared all that, but what would what would he say or what what grade would he give you?
Currently, of what you're doing now versus what that manifesto says you're gonna do? Great question. Right now, I I started at an f and I've probably worked my way up to probably somewhere in the C plus to B minus range right now. I did share with I said this is gonna take me a year to probably get to. And he said, try to do it in 6 months. But I recognize some and I went through kinda here the reasons why it's, you know, I had client commitments and things like that.
And he's like and those would ones that would be significantly impactful. And he's like, just know that every day that you don't do this, you're living of alignment, basically. And I'm like, so that that's the hook. And he reminds me of it on a weekly basis right now. So I'm I'm definitely trying to kinda transition into. And this group that I mentioned the second, you know, a couple of minutes ago is a reflection of that. It allows me to do more leverage work.
It allows me to have a bigger impact and and give give a kind of a greater ease to to how the business is gonna work. Yeah. Love it. Yep. Last question here for you, Tim, if, you've you've kind of identified these different chapters. And so I'm gonna let you pick the younger Tim that you get speak to, which chapter maybe, but you roll back the the clock and you talk to the younger Tim and you whisper in his ear. What do you tell him?
I Wolfe say to Be clear on your standards and never lower them for anyone. Any time that I have gotten self in trouble or created, talk about vibration. I'm a big believer in kind of just the energy idea. Like, the things that take away my energy are times when I went against my greater judgment. Yeah. And I think I would just that person that's out there, that business that's out there, that life that's out there, is possible. Don't settle would be what I would say.
And Chaz, professionally, that's like, well, I need to take this job because it this thing that I have in my head doesn't exist. Well, I would almost guarantee you it does, or you can go and build it. The question isn't, is it possible the question is what do you need? What needs to true for that to be possible, and that's the question to ask. That's always a different question. Yep. It's the question behind the question. That's right. That's right.
Tim, you have an incredible mind and incredible history. How can the listeners find you? They find themselves between this 503 dollars mark. They need a number 2. Someone to strategically guide them, through scaling their business. How can they find you? Yeah. So, go to so collice.com is the website, timcalise.com, and then Instagram and Facebook.
But if you go to Instagram, and DME Kings, I have a framework that I called profit Maximizer, and it's the idea of how do you take kind of what have today and potentially move you closer to where you wanna go. I'm gonna give that to you as a listener as a as a thank you for listening to the show. And then, this community, this, the the co creator community, as I mentioned a second ago, is actually gonna be here very shortly, and so it'll probably be live when you're listening to this.
So DME Kings, and I'll get you some information about that as Wolfe. But the gift is is my for you to listen for as a thank you for listening to the show. I love it. Tim, you're you're well thought out. You're you're intentional, not only just in your life, but even just how you shared with us here today, all the way down to how people can connect with you. I just really admire what you've done.
I thank you for being here lessings to you and, your entire cohort, your family, all the all the businesses that you're touching. Thank you for being here, sir. Greatly appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity. Great great to chat. Thank you. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be doing it all on your industries and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is Chaz It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you, and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gathering the king's dot com.
Want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.