On today's episode of gathering the Kings. We did have a banker sit across the table for me and pushed a file across the table and said, Oh, hey. By the way, we'll be needing those loans that we gave you for those 25 models in your 25 communities. We'll we'll need those paid back. Yeah. Like right now. There's been this looming thing that's coming now for, I don't know, we've been talking about it for almost 2 years, and it just hasn't really happened even though rates have gone up.
Demand is still very, very high. You're building 500 plus a year. Tell us what what's it look like? What's 2024? What's your projections look like? What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, gathering the Kings podcast, coming back to you here today with another king on the stage. My brother, Jeff Runt. How we doing, Jeff? Good. Thank you, Taz. Great to be here. Of course. I'm happy to have you here and, your experience in in, your industry is gonna be warmly welcomed.
We have people from really all across the the world and industries chiming in here for the show. And I think your experience is gonna give us some great feedback, to them. So tell us, Jeff, what kind of business do you have? So really 2. So I'm I'm a a dairy farmer turned homebuilder. So I we build about 500 homes a year here in South Central Pennsylvania, Northern Maryland, and just started the vision in Charlotte, North Carolina.
And I also started a, CRACE Center Microfinance Organization about 26 years ago called Hope International, and we serve families on the front line. As soon as you said, 500 homes a year, and then the fact that you're opening up another location and then another, you know, endeavor, all of that seems a little bit mind boggling. But we might have listeners thinking that, wow, like, this is this is a guy I can run with. Let me get started with, kinda like the deeper inner parts of of Jeff.
And I wanna know, I mean, 500 homes a year. That's kind of a big deal. That's a really big deal. And then all the other work that you just said doing in other countries, why? What what what wakes you up in the morning? What's beaten deep down inside of Jeff? That makes you do these pretty amazing things. Yeah. Wolfe, I think it's it comes out of my faith.
I I really do believe that, you know, we're we're commanded to the love god, love others, and how to do we do that in a way that really serves them well, both in our for profit business, our our home building business, but also in the in the work we do, around the world through Hope International. How would we wanna be served?
You know, I came from a very humble beginnings up, you know, grew up on a dairy farm and worked really, really hard, learned at age ten, the the value of hard work and discipline from my dad, which I appreciated. Years later, I didn't really appreciate it that much then. Not in the moment. So, yeah, I mean, it's I do I I what what kinda cranks my tractor is impact? How do we impact people's lives. And and do that in a way that doesn't hurt them. You know, it really it truly helps them.
Yeah. I I love the definition of success, given by some of the old names including Napoleon Hill, but oftentimes it's tied to getting exactly what you want, but there's a caveat Chaz long as it, a serves others and or doesn't harm anyone else. And so there's there's real unity and harmony, those kind of words that come together, and they feel a little bit fufu. But that's exactly what you're saying is, like, I wanna be able to go achieve personally.
Okay. Fine. But I also want to be able to impact others with the greatest positive, you know, ripple. Yeah. Yeah. There's a there's a book. If you haven't had a chance to read, toxic charity, Robert Lapton is the author. He talks about the 5 stages And personally, I was right there. I was a toxic charity addict back in the mid nineties, looking to send containers of food and medical supplies, and we thought we're well intended.
We're just trying to gather, you know, re you know, gather everybody together and send stuff to folks who were in in in in really in deep need in Ukraine, and we did it for 5 years in a row. And Robert Lepton talks about it in his book charity. The that first gift, there's appreciation. Everybody's like checking the box saying, this is awesome.
The giver, the receiver, then that second gift, there's a little bit of anticipation, then expectation, then entitlement, than dependency, and it has that kind of downward spiral and it's well intended, but inadvertently causes that a downward spiral dependency and and really kind of drove us to look for a solution and a pastor we were working with at the time and you Zaporozh, Ukraine, right where the nuclear plants are now that, invasion is is all
over all over the place there in in the next to the deeper river. Pastor sent me down and said, Jeff, your helping is hurting. And I remember thinking, wow, this I put a lot of time and resources and energy and passion into this, and you're telling me that it's actually hurting.
And I and it just it was a that one comment shifted our whole approach, to go down a track of really looking for something that restores dignity and uses the gifts that the families we're serving have in their hands and that they can, you know, support their own families.
You know, Chaz kind of really pursued this idea of of crisis centered microenterprise development where you know, Anastasia and Burundi, who couldn't afford to send her 2 little girls to school at the time, leveraged a $20 loan into a wedding business She now leases out 200 chairs, 200 place settings, 200 baskets, and 3 wedding dresses, a small, medium, and large. And she's thriving at dignity.
Wow. Okay. Well, surely if we can help that person with a small, medium, and large, run a successful business with some plates, we can help some people here who have way more resources than that. I mean, if that didn't just remove excuses for every single listener, I I don't know what will. But I appreciate just the the opportunity, not only just to hear the heart, but also to kinda go a little deeper there. What what do you think? I guess that's tied to real impact.
So for you, I guess it was just a further definition of what real impact is. It wasn't just throwing money at a problem. It was going, do I really want to help? And how does real help, you know, look, I guess, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Brian Becker wrote a book when helping Hertz. And, you know, we we we I think it's too many times here in the west. Have, again, good intentions, and we send all kinds of stuff, and it really cripples.
You know, L Upton did a study in Atlanta a few years ago when there was, there's a group of well intended folks that just spent a lot of time and money delivering Christmas gifts to families in, you know, some really struggling areas in in down, you know, in the some of the, harder parts of Atlanta.
And as they were coming in, what they noticed was, as they were coming in the front door with these Christmas gifts for the kids, the dads were going out the back door in shame because they didn't want to pay any part of that because they knew that it was really their it was that was on them. They should have been delivering the gift and it was just it was, like, too much. It was, and it actually ended up hurting.
So there's a there's a lot of, situations where I think are helping can actually hurt and we wanna just we wanna love on people the way we would wanna be loved. And I think and Yeah. I don't know about you, but for me, I don't you know, given the choice, I wanna try to figure out a way to use the gifts that god gave me to to be productive and to supply the key needs of my kids and, you know, see them be successful as opposed to having somebody else step in and do that for me.
Yeah. I mean, in essence, you're teaching them how to fish. I want you to take this principle that you've clearly articulated in in how it can be harmful in a way of you know, philanthropic activity. What about in your business? When you learned these things over here on this side, how did that change things for managers, executives, even, you know, labor force in your business, because, I mean, building 500 homes a year, you've got maybe just a couple of employees. Yes. We do.
Yeah. Yeah. We have about a 150 employees, but it didn't it didn't start that way. You know, I I, as I said, I grew up in a dairy farm, kind of a dysfunctional childhood, and I was thirteen. My mom picked up my 3 younger siblings at school one day, left me a note and said, hey. If you wanna join me, call me. Uh-uh, decided to stay on the farm with my dad and kinda spent my teenage years broken and leaning into Learning how to milk cows and and, you know, how to lean into my faith in Jesus.
Literally bought the farm when I was twenty. Before I knew what that phrase meant. Nobody told me. Yeah. So my wife and I spent the next 10 years struggling a lot on the dairy farm, just making ends meet making monthly payments and, and interest payments. And, turns out after 10 years, we realized, you know, 300 Bovines are very needy. We were looking for something with the lower risk and less hours. So we were thinking maybe real estate at home building would be a good choice.
Yeah. What year was this again? Yeah. So that would have been, like, early nineties, late eighties, early nineties. Yeah. So I started very, very small with no capital 0. Yeah. Negative capital, actually. So we started very small building, you know, just a handful of buy levels. We were selling homes at 699. Now our kitchen upgrades cost that much. You know? So Exactly. Yeah. We were selling buy levels at 699 in the early nineties.
I think we built 12 homes our 1st year And, they were all presold because we couldn't afford to build them as spec. So we had them we sold them and then build them. There's a lot to that story. I wanna kind of drive drive some some energy towards that. What do you think along that? I mean, you you've kind of painted this picture of, you know, humble beginnings and kind of a slow start. 12 homes in the 1st year, I don't know if I would consider that slow, but but I love the way your approach was.
It was conservative. And so what do you like, I wanna dive into that. He said you sold them ahead, but and I don't need the the tax on how you sold them, but what would your message be for the audience today if they're either starting or let's say in the 1st 5 or so years of the business, What what did you learn to that process that you can that you can gift to them? Yeah. One of the things I think is really a key business principle.
And I You know, again, I barely graduated from high school, but I'm I'm an avid reader. I'd love I'd love to read probably read 2 books a month. But one of the things that I've tried to focus on through the years as a business person is to think like a banker. Bankers love debt to equity ratios, that are very conservative. So but it's super simple. A one to one debt to equity ratio, you know, if if you if your house is worth a $100,000, and you owe $50,000 on it, the 1 to 1 debt to equity ratio.
Trying to keep that balance in mind through the years, that's been a a principle that, has served us well. I think, you know, some of the things that we've always tried to follow metrics, you know, keep our lead. I'm a firm believer in the the 4 disciplines of execution.
Chris Chesney's book, 40 x. But I didn't have that book in 1992, but we kind of followed some of the principals loosely, and we've been refine that in recent years, but he talks about, you know, there's 4 disciplines having that wig or that wildly important goal. Like, what's your goal? If it's to build 12 homes a year or if it's to sell, you know, 20 cars or if it's to make a 1000 widgets, or serve a thousand people. Whatever what's your goal?
And then what are the lead measures to get to that goal? So if your if your goal is to lose £20 You don't just get on the scales every, you know, 2 hours and see if, you know, see if it's happening. You start measuring things like diet. And how much your, you know, minutes in exercise. So that lead measures that second discipline. So Wolfe, 1st discipline, lead measures second, and then the board having a compelling scoreboard.
Do you ever notice when you're out playing basketball, pick up basketball? Somebody's keeping score, how it changes when the score starts, Yeah. That's somebody starts keeping score. All of a sudden, the intensity goes up. People start diving for loose balls and, like, elbow and to go in for the layup. Yep. So having a scoreboard is compelling. And then that 4th discipline is that weekly accountability with the team, whether you have a team of 3.
Or 300 having a weekly accountability with whoever your team is to say, here's what here's what I'm committed to do. It's outside the whirlwind this week to move, the lead measure towards that, that wildly important goal. So I think that that was important early on, but I do think having, you know, good work work ethic really, focusing on loving people. You know, it's it Chaz it comes through. Yeah. I think you're I think you're spot on with Chaz. Inside of the four steps that you gave to us.
I first off super simple love it. There's many operating systems that follow a similar framework. And so I think that's great. How how how have you navigated from each one? Because I think, principally, it makes sense. Like, okay, I have a goal. Then I set some some trackables I have a scoreboard, and I I'm drawing a blank on your last one. What was the level? Yeah. Caine's accountability. Yeah. The accountability, having a team meeting.
And I I think every entrepreneur, well, I hope that they've heard something like that, but but we both know that they're probably not doing it. Yeah. And so as simple as it sounds, I there's a lot of business owners that I know that don't do all 4 of those or or any of them. And so for you, maybe Chaz you were learning some of those even before you read that book, was there a gap in that for you, or did was there something inside of you that kinda led you to that? Are you just high tenacity?
Like, how does how have you been able to do this successfully that they can take away from you? Well, the principles you can take away is, at least for me, I need to be reminded of some of those things on a weekly basis. I think we're wired to do a lot of things weekly.
I don't think it has to be, like, this huge you know, amazing meeting, but some kind of a check-in with your team, whether it's an what works well for us is checking in as a as a leadership team, but then all of our frontline teams checking in with them, you know, themselves individually.
Lindsay only talks about a Huddl there's a lot of operating systems that out there, as you said, that 40x, you know, calls it just the 40x meeting could be 20 to 30 minutes a week I do think there's a lot of value in, you know, I know for me personally, our meetings are Thursday morning at 7:30, And every when if I have to prepare for something for that meeting, every Wednesday evening or late in the day, Wednesday, I'm like, it can't be Thursday already. Right?
So, I mean, just our natural human tendencies are to just kind of say, oh, I'll get to that later. Yeah. It's been a while since we had that meeting. Oh, are we still doing that? But if you have it set on the calendar and you say, okay, no matter what happens, somebody's sick, somebody's traveling, whoever's here, we're still having the meeting. I think there's some value in that regular meeting. Yeah. Yeah. It happened today. We have our weekly meeting, for gathering the Kings. Alright.
Right before this podcast actually. And it happened today. We set some quarterly goals. We're here in the 1st week of December recording this right now. And so what does that tell us we've got about three and a half weeks before the end of the year and quarter. And so it's like, okay. Well, we check we're we're checking in on the quarterly, you know, goals every single week. But it it was like, oh, there's three and a half weeks left.
I should put some more elbow grease into that one right there. I've been kinda Been working over here on this one. I got this one, though, that I've been kinda pushing on. I shouldn't push on it any longer. And who like you said, basically, what I have even recognized it, if, I mean, it could have been January, but I'm like, oh, dang. I didn't get that done. Yeah. As opposed to I have Melanie a team, but then it written, and we're we're looking at it every single week.
And now I'm now I'm time sensitive. I could pay attention, go, okay, well, I I need to I need to actually move that up in the priority Yeah. If if it's something that needs to be moved up. Otherwise, maybe we've established that that it's not meaningful. And I need and I need to let it go. I don't know. But again, it's still the reflective piece there is based on the the regularity of checking. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Yeah. And I think that ties into almost any business especially when it comes to, you know, things that you don't necessarily we we human the human nature is we put things off that we don't really like to do that much. But if there's some kind of cadence of accountability, if we, you know, have been telling our team for the last 3 weeks, this is my commitment. It's and we know there's a meeting coming up. It's a it's a good reminder and a good, motivation to to make that happen. Yeah. Exactly.
What what do you think Chaz an individual? I said you're you're a big reader and obviously accountability with other people's huge. I'm a big part of this. Chaz white gather and the Kings exist, not the reason, but one of the reasons as a peer group, when I say things out loud in front of other entrepreneurs, especially high performers, I know they're gonna do their thing, and I'm not gonna be the guy that comes up next month and says, sorry, dude. I I didn't I didn't do it.
There's major power in Chaz. How how are you seeing that in in your organization? And then maybe one step further, you're opening up another location, not just down the road, like, in another part of the country, how does that extend now to a another location that's completely remote from you? Yeah. Well, we're we're still doing those, those meetings. Now I think it and and we do them know, virtually.
However, I think it starts with having, you know, as Jim Collins talks about a good degree, you know, having the right person on the bus in the right seat on the bus. I think it's really important too.
And we haven't always gotten that right, you know, through the years we've made some you know, we've we've made some wrong turns, but I think continually looking for ways to improve your team so that you have the best possible probability of surviving the downturns and also taking advantage of the opportunities in in the good markets. So I think having the right person in in the right places is really important. You know, Lindsay only talks about the hungry humble smart.
And not all of us are gonna be, you know, 10 out of 10 on all 3 hungry, humble smart. I do think humility is super important. You know, I think, intersection of authority and vulnerability. And where where do those 2 things intersect? We if we have authority, but we're not vulnerable, we're not a good leader. If we are really vulnerable, but we have no authority, we're not a good leader either either.
And if you really for me, if I look at the most incredible example of the intersection of those 2 is Jesus Christ on the vulnerable on the cross having all the authority to to completely change history but deciding to move forward with Chaz, but we're not there. It's a big deal. But we have that example to follow on to to be the light of Christ.
I do think the hum humble hungry smart is where you I think it's really important whether you're a 2 you're a two person business, or you have 2000 employees, the more team members you can have that have the combination of those threes 3, starting with humility. I think you're you're gonna be on a good track. Yeah. Yeah. To get more information on that, that's a deal team player by Patrick Lynn. You know, you you say his his name like I used to. Lindseyoni. It sounds awesome.
And I was I was on a training with him not that long ago. Because, COO, and on of our team and myself got certified in his working genius program. And he introduced himself as Patrick Lynch. Lynn Choney. Okay. Well, I learned something new today. Like, Your name. Sorry, bro. It's not Lynn Choney. Everybody else out here, we say it Lynn Scioni.
Okay. So, anyway, you're you're spot on a deal a deal team player is a fantastic book, hung hungry, humble smart, super good lens to be able to hire through. We use the culture index, as well to be able to kinda give us some additional insights, before hiring somebody, making sure that they are that right person in the right seat on the right bus or on the bus in the right seat. All this is super good. You've you've lent a couple of a little drips here that I wanna kinda sneak into.
You're you're in an industry where right now, I'm curious about your thoughts, but I wanna go because you said you started, you know, eighties, nineties, and that which means you've been home building through a couple of downturns now. You kinda mentioned So let's talk 2008, 2009. Where where were you? What was happening? What was your mindset? What'd you learn? And then I'm gonna apply it to what's happening in the market.
Yeah. Some of the biggest mistakes we've made and we took advantage of a lot of opportunities ever in that the end of that cycle from 92 to 2006 thought we were really smart, and we were just gonna go up into the right. You know, everything was gonna it's gonna be up into the right forever. And then 2007 hit. And, we had bought a little too much land.
Fortunately, we kept our 1 to 1 debt to equity ratio, but we did have a banker sit cross the table for me and pushed a file across the table and said, oh, hey. By the way, we'll be needing those loans that we gave you for those 25 models in your 25 communities, we'll we'll need those paid back in the next 60 days. Yeah. Like, right now. Oh, some tough time.
Fortunately, we had built a lot of good relationships with bankers and had enough equity to survive About half the builders in the country did not survive that 2007 to 2010 timeframe. So there was a lot of fine tuning and really looking at, okay. Here's where the market had covered up some process and some procedure and some some things we really need to refine and get better at as a as an organization during that time. Yeah. That was a that was a big, a big, big downturn for I think the yeah.
I think the start starts in the country went from you know, over 2 million starts of new homes to under 500,000. It was just went off the cliff in 1 year. Yes. Yeah. It was a dramatic deal. And and I think it's even more credible because of Chaz. The fact that you not only hobbled through, but then survived and then have continued. And, obviously, it's upward and and to the right, not all the time, but you know, you zoom out far enough and it is.
And so, okay, so inside of that little time frame, I heard you say Chaz, well, may maybe not the most important thing, but the one thing that you said maybe it is the most is that that debt to equity ratio 1 to 1 is what helped you survive financially through probably one of the hardest things financially in our lifetime. Would you agree with that? I think that's one of the things.
I do think the the combination of having the right people in the right seats and and that have that hungry, humble smart attitude are are gonna because you're there's a lot of things that come at you during downturns like Chaz. And you need the right people around you to help help you, survive and to serve your customers Wolfe. Even though it's hard. It's super challenging Yeah. During these times.
Okay. And so in was gonna say your your second piece there that you said earlier kinda ties in with what you just said around people, but you took a downturn. And instead of freaking out and and basically going out of business. It was a great opportunity to tighten up process, really refine, and go, hey. What? Okay. So what actually matters here. Let's get rid of the things that don't move the needle. Let's really, really dial in and focus. Would you like to add anything to that little portion?
Yeah. We actually were able to because of the ability to fine tune and and dial in, our processes and procedures and also our 1 to 1, you know, debt to equity, we were able to just a lot of land opportunities in Chaz, the the second half of that down cycle.
So from about, I'd say 09 to 13, 2013, 2014, you know, we picked up probably a 150 different land positions that were anywhere from, you know, 2 home sites to 50 home sites, but they were they were good opportunities that, helped us grow through that process. Someone else who hadn't planned properly like you, you, in essence, I guess, were helping them get whatever they could for it at that time, but it was just a great opportunity for you to capitalize.
And and I wanna use that actually as the parlay here because there's been this looming thing that's coming now for, I don't know, we've been talking about it for almost 2 years. You know, really since COVID had had been around and and it just hasn't really happened even though rates have gone up, demand is still very, very high. You're building 500 plus a year. Tell us what what's it look like? What's 2024? What's your projections look like? What do you think? Hey, Kings and Queens. Chaz Wolfe.
I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too. So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things.
On social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify. We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible. Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this. Let's help each other. Let's help each other grow. No idea. I love that answer. I so love that answer. Thank you.
I have no idea. And, I mean, we're we're we're working as hard as we can to prepare for the, you know, expect the best, but be prepared for the worst. That's my mantra. Yeah. How are you doing? So I mean, we're we're doing everything we can to be conservative. I hire the very best people, train as as best we Chaz, It's a it's a struggle.
There's if if you really look at it, speaking of, you know, vulnerable, every time we look at a land deal in today's market, I mean, it just it's it's just Chaz. You know, what what we have to you know, we basically have to bet the farm for every project that's coming up, knowing that there's a good chance we're headed into a downturn. That's that's part of our that's part of our business. But it's part of in in some ways that's part of almost every business.
So if I think about I go back to the nonprofit side, if we go back to the Hope International side, I think about one of our first clients is a lady in Ukraine Her name was Nadia, and she wanted a small loan that's less than $500 to start a clothing store. And she did. She was sent kind of successful, but not like hitting it out of the park, but she saw an opportunity to expand into a department selling Portland Cement. Now, Chaz, you and I can't make this stuff up.
Like, you you you normally don't go from clothing to Portland cement, but she noticed that the guys that were selling the Portland cement were in the back part of the market and these guys had to carry their bags out the whole way out to the curb to the pickup trucks. They were picking it up. She opened a stand up, selling port in the cement right on the sidewalk, like right next to the right next. And these guys were like, yeah, we're gonna buy it here. Same price. We're gonna buy it here.
Here's the the cool part of that story is as a side note. She came in this is early on. She came in to to talk to our loan officer, and she said, This is my last payment. I won't be needing any more loans because I'm not poor anymore. I mean, it was just, like, that was one of the things I said, there is a lot of there's a lot of ramp here. I think I think the the hungry humble smart, you we just need to look at it and say, We can listen to every economist in the world.
We can study every possible chart, every possible piece of history, but nobody really knows what's gonna happen in the first quarter of 2024. We just have to be expect the best and be prepared for the worst, and that that means sir. Having the best people being prepared, having the best processes in place, we can. I think that that's a a wise answer. Really, it's not just in preparation for a recession. That just should be how we operate our business. Right?
We should always be hoping for the best and planning for the worst. I think that there's there's real tactics in there. The thing that that I pulled away from the example that you gave of the gal and who who did the loan with you guys in another country is that even in a downturn. If your product is what people need and you know how to market it, it solves the problem. So make sure that you've got something that somebody needs and you know exactly how to how to get their attention.
Housing's not gonna go away. We know that for sure. Will your creativity on how to get in touch with the people that need a house need to grow? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For us, a little bit of of it has been over the past, few years, especially, we've tried to differentiate ourselves from as you I'm sure no. The the national home builders, public home builders are, like, taken over the market.
They, you know, a majority of the market now, and they're buying up a lot of the regionals and smaller builders. And they're building shelter, and it's it's needed. There's there's a there's a need for shelter. But there's a little bit of a niche in that area between that shelter and the custom home builder, I call the 2 liter 2 liter builder that's built, you know, 5, 10 homes a year. So we're kind of in between there. So And, you know, we can build 100 of homes at scale.
We can do that more efficiently and economically, still give buyers choices So we have tens of thousands of choices that we offer online. Our customers can go on and choose, you know, they're good. Just like their shopping cart on Amazon. Chaz any, you know, just about anything you can think of, have as an option that they can put in their home so they can personalize So that's our niche.
Yeah. As we try to carve out, you know, our our unique selling proposition between the The big Publix, which is kind of a race to the bottom on price. And then the the custom home builders will build, you know, you bring in a newspaper clipping. They'll build almost an thing. So we're we have, you know, 50 plans to choose from and then tens of 1000 of options that are pre priced pre preplanned predrawn that you can point and click and and put them into.
Yeah. I think that speaks to your process, you know, that you just described, you know, you don't have 50 plans with 10,000 options and a website to be able to add things into a cart without amazing people and incredible process to follow. So I think even just that little answer that you gave kinda just casually speaks to the very thing that we were just talking about. What do you think? You know, we've talked about maybe how you survived the the downturn or what you're doing to prepare.
I asked you kind of maybe some things that you've done well in the business, hiring a great people. We've used a couple of examples there. What's been the moment where you just were bad decision, not your greatest hour, maybe a a vulnerable mum you where you got exposed. I don't know. Tell us about that that situation. Yeah. So probably a couple things that I would think about mentioned earlier, I kinda joked about it. Bought the farm before I knew what that meant.
I do think that we're thinking a couple years after that, that was not a good decision. This was a lot of money, and I was really young. Payments really high. Now, would I trade it for anything? No. Wolfe I go back and do it again for anything? No. But I'd learned so much through that process. I think another kind of phase would have been in that you know, too much too much belief in our own press in that 02 to 06 and thinking, oh, everything's just gonna go up into the right and we're amazing.
And, you know, it's, we were fortunate praise god. We didn't get too far over our skis, but we we definitely got a little too aggressive on purchasing land and expanding too fast So we paid for that, you know, in that downturn. But so those are things, and I think we learn from those experiences as as we, you know, as we continue to Yeah. And hopefully learn from our mistakes. Yeah. And I think I think that that's that's the ultimate, right, is to be able to, you know, reflect back and go, okay.
How do we do it differently? For for somebody who hasn't you know, had the opportunity to to live through a recession like that or or really just make major, you know, bad decisions, I guess. Because we both though Chaz that moment, that feeling of like, oh, I would never wanna do that again. I would never wish that on my enemy. But it except for that, it gave me some really, really key component what I have now as a human, as a thinker, as a entrepreneur, as a leader.
And so I I I received Chaz, but I guess my question is is you know, I guess maybe more tactically in inside of what you're doing on a regular basis now, is there anything that you're doing to to not be as aggressive, or is it is aggressive really? Was that the problem, or was there other maybe metrics that you were blowing out? Like, what was really over getting over the skies and what does that look like? Cause it does take it takes about conquering and aggression to grow a business.
And so kind of maybe teeter that line for us. Yeah. And I don't it's really there's so many unknowns because you can go too far the other way and just never grow and never, you know, just if if you're not aggressive enough, you'll just gradually go out of business because you don't have, you know, you don't have that inventory.
I think some of the things we learned were to really do, you know, your hurdle rates, your your metrics really following guidelines that you set up for yourself or as a as a team up very diligently and making sure that you're disciplined in in following those those metrics and never believe too much in your own press. Like, always, you know, keep that humble Is that humble wording? Chaz humble attitude. Like, yes, it can happen to me.
Yeah. Yeah. That gives us ideally some perspective in that moment. Right? Like, maybe you have an experience being humbled, but by being humble, maybe you can stay away from from that. It's the pride before the fall analogy. What do you think is practical? Because it's it's difficult what you're saying. You you guys are winning. And when we win as entrepreneurs as competitors, it feels good to to celebrate.
It feels good to, you know, even for guys that maybe are a little bit more conservative, I would put myself in that category, but I still like to win. I still like to Like, did that check it, like, makes me feel good.
Even though I quickly move on to going back to work and not trying to, you know, read the press, there's still that moment And and I know that that's healthy to a degree, but talk about how do I how do I kind of fight off the, maybe, pride before the fall Chaz inevitably might come if I don't have this humble spirit, but yet still, I'm I'm a I'm an entrepreneur. I'm I I love to win. I wanna get after it. I wanna I wanna you know, I wanna celebrate my wins. How how do I do this?
Yeah. Yeah. I forget who who I'm quoting, but, you know, you've you've heard the quote. Humility is not thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less. And I I think, you know, we can have a strong self esteem. We can have confidence. We can have that So I believe that we were made by the creator and we we are, you know, made to be honoring the king, the real king. And I think that's that's an important thing to remember, but Yeah. Who's the author of ego Chaz the enemy?
You probably know. Oh, yeah. Now off top of my head, but I know it's not. We'll put in the show. Yeah. Another great, a great book, because I think the there's a higher probability of going too far that way of believing your own press, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a a a quiet confidence, a a humble, like, belief in ourselves, but that can go too far the other way.
Yeah. I wanna talk about this just for a quick second here before we kinda wind down because you're you're spot on with this, in my opinion, it's it's identity. Is what you're referencing.
And the identity of who do I believe that I am, and and I can still have a humble approach when I step into a podcast with a on like you, or when I step into a sales car, when I step into a meeting with my wife, or hanging out with my kids, like, the the humility is, like you said, making it not about me all the time. Being self as opposed to self focused. And so the, I guess, the, it's it's humility.
I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to bring a couple points together here in my mind, and I'm and I'm twisting them up. But the the humility is good. And I guess the identity of who I believe that I am is supersedes that. And so I guess the the thing that's coming to my mind is if I believe that I'm son, made by my creator, or, believe that I'm a builder. Like, I don't build homes, but if I'm a builder, then I'm building my marriage, I'm building my children. I'm building my businesses.
I'm building my teams. I'm building kings. I'm, you know, all Chaz, like, I can have an identity of, who who I am and and be confident in those things. And that's what I'm hearing you say. So I I would love your your comments or your thoughts on what I'm saying as far as identity. Because that's what I'm hearing you say is really that's the important piece. Yeah. Yeah. So you your your identity.
So starting with your and your your faith in Christ, your, like you said, your your marriage, how important your family is to you, what your what you really want your legacy, to be And we didn't really talk about this before, but about 5 years ago, almost 5 years ago, a company that's for donated about 89% of the nonvoting stock in our and our Keystone Custom Homes and all its affiliates to a National Christian Foundation Charitable Trust. So our company is actually about 90% owned by charity.
Actually, we're gonna for another 1% this year. So it'll be 9010. So one of the things that happened during that transition, it was really clarified for me and that because I wasn't sure exactly, but I had a mentor, Alan Barnhart, who had done the same thing a few years ago with his company, had a large crane company in Memphis, Tennessee, and you could find it on find his story on YouTube.
I kind of followed in his footsteps, but one of the things you're never really sure, how are you gonna feel like the day after you make that transfer? And for me, it was like I had the exact same amount of drive, if not more, kind of that passion for profit for purpose. As as and it was very clarifying, for me. So so kinda getting outside of yourself I can be it's just really life giving. I think the other thing for me is, you know, I have 7 grandkids now.
My wife and I are married 43 years and have 7 amazing grandkids. Our kids our kids are great too. But, love our grandkids. The grand yeah. The grand kids are always better. We get it. We get it. They're the best. And just really trying to speak into them. You know, what's that next? What's that legacy gonna be? What's their look at some of the things they're facing? You know, my six year old grandson, what's he when he's our age. You know, what's he gonna be facing in in in the world around him?
So how can he best be prepared for that? Both in his, you know, all areas of life. How can how can he be hungry hungry, humble, smart and have, you know, that heart that leaning into Jesus and leaning into using the gifts that god gives him in the best possible ways honor those around him. Yeah. I I I resonate with that. So thank you for sharing that. I think that that it challenges everybody listening of giving, you know, 90 percent of your your company to to a to a charitable source.
And then thinking of your grandkids like that, actually, you know, I don't have any grandkids yet. I have I have 4 littles under the age of ten. And so this is a little odd that I'm thinking about grandkids, but I I get so excited. About doing deals with my kids. 1, that's coming very soon.
We're already starting to tickle that one, but doing deals, whatever deals look like, whether it's businesses or, you know, machine growing, leading, you know, inspiring all those things that you just got done talking about with your grandkids. I I am I'm looking forward to those days because it's legacy. It's not necessarily my name. You know, a lot of a lot of times when people say legacy, they think like, well, I need you to remember me.
And, and actually Alex Ramosi gives a great example on this. How he's like, look, man, my his actual grandfather was a Persian king. You know, like, 400 wives, 1200 children, like, real deal, Persian King, and maybe it was his great grandfather, but he's like, I don't even remember his name. Right. You, for sure, don't know him, and I don't know him. And he was, like, an actual, like, king, like, a world leader. Yeah. It's like, so so really are you gonna be remembered?
And and that's that's tough because legacy is like, man, wow, is my is my life meaningless then? It was like, no. I don't think that's his point. I think it's more of along what you're saying, which is, look, how do I be really, really intentional about who is being left behind? Not necessarily what or my name or, you know, it's more of a how can I equip? You said, how can I prepare my grandson for when he's been married for 43 years?
And he's, you know, succession planning for his business and thinking about his grandkids, like, how can I prepare him best for that? Like, That gets me jacked up. I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah. And it might not be the easiest. And you know this with, 4 under 10, sometimes Yeah.
The things that, that are the most, you know, that that seem to make them the happiest aren't necessarily the same things that prepare them most for and I'm not talking about, you know, making it miserable for them, but we've always had the philosophy that, manual labor is not the president of Mexico, man. This is a this is this is a real thing. So Let's let's learn it early. That's right. Yeah. Let's get on that dairy farm, and you just don't have to buy the farm. You can learn it.
These ought to buy Jeff, I got one last question here for you. I I wanna wind this down with, with some reflection. You we've already we're right here in this vein of of legacy and thinking and how to how to maybe influence the next generation. So I'm gonna try to pull your answer out for the audience and and hopefully they can be impacted by it. But if we could roll back the clock, want you to think about the younger Jeff. I'm not gonna give you an age. I want you to pick the age.
But I want you to to visualize the younger Jeff, and you're gonna come on the shoulder, and you're gonna lean over and whisper in his ear. How old is he? And what do you say? Yeah. I think one of the things that I would say, I'm not sure the exact age, but, say definitely kind of leaning back to or going back to one of the things I said earlier, don't believe you're on the press. Stay stay humble. Keep leaning in to, you know, the using the gifts that God gave you.
I think one of the things Chaz I would do differently is the the transfer that we made 5 years ago. I would have done that 20 years ago. It's just like really terrifying and and we're able to continue to grow our business. We can't pull it out personally. But I, you know, I really believe some of the best things in life are free. And, there's a lot of joy in in giving. So I think that those the it's a it's a refreshingly conservative, you know, low humble response.
And I and I think that, there's a lot of fast hustle and hurry in today's environment, especially in entrepreneurs, And, there's there's poise, you know, coming from wisdom, you know, of decades of doing this, you know, that that tells us just to, hey, like, It's actually gonna be okay. Even if I only had 10% this whole time, it would have been just fine.
Yeah. Yeah. And there's just Chaz there's a lot of other benefits you know, and as I think about, you know, the next 20, 30 years, it's valuable for me to say, okay, if I'm sitting here, you know, 30 years from now, assuming God God gives me breath that long. And I look back, what would Chaz, and everything went perfectly? What would that look like? And in order to achieve that, what are the the things that I should be focusing on now make that happen?
I think it is it's a valuable exercise to really think about where where we prioritize our time. Is that really what we want long term? And is that if we're look for sitting here 30 years from now, no matter what age you are, what's that look like to to lean into the things that will be important then as you look can reflect on it. Yeah. It's big. I posed a question on social media just a couple of days ago in this vein.
I said, does your self control and discipline match what you say, or does it match your commitment to what you say that you want? And we we can say that we want things. We can even commit to them. But it's in those moments where you're talking about, like, really deciding? Like, does this actually get me what I want? And if it doesn't, I don't do it. Right? And if it does, to Jeff's point, lean in hard. No excuses. And so, anyway, Jeff, you've been incredible here today.
How can the listeners find you? Number 1, if they happen to be in the Pennsylvania, Maryland area, and they wanna buy an incredible home, or maybe in South Carolina, how can they find you, or if they're just an entrepreneur wanna learn more about maybe your your nonprofit or the things that you're doing in business, how can they connect with you? Yeah. So our website, keystonecustomhome.com, or feel free to email me. Mail is just jeff@teastancustomhome.com or jeff@hopeinternational.org.
So and, love for anybody globally. It's listening to this message to to learn about Hope International. I know that's not what this podcast is was was about, but we're looking to continue to grow that.
We've we've raised Chaz started super small as well, but we've we've raised about $275,000,000 through the years, but we've loaned out about $1,600,000,000 just through because of the 97% repayment rate, our leader, our president, Peter Greer's, talk about the ultimate hungry, humble smart, incredible president CEO of Hope International's been there almost 20 years. And so, yeah, check us out at hopeinternational.org. Yeah. That's incredible. What what's a specific ask there?
Like, how can they get involved, or what would be, like, what would you what would you call them to as far as I would say Yeah. Yeah. Real quickly, 3 things. Pray involved on it and go on a trip.
See that, you know, talk about taking your young kids or teenagers, and talking about taking the the wind out of their not fair speech, taking them to visit 1 of the 20 four countries we in the developing that we work in and visit Nadia Anastasia, yeah, visit some of, the clients that are that we serve around the world. So and then the third is fight get financially involved. It's a 5013c. Right? Go give. I love it. Love it.
We'll put all that in the show notes as well, make it super easy for folks to get involved with that and or just connecting with you. You've been incredible. You have an amazing business and a hitch Thank you for sharing the ups and the downs with us here today. Blessings to you, your family, the organizations that you're leading, all the people that you're impacting in your kingdom. Thank you so much for being here, Jeff. Appreciate you.
Thank you, Chaz. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
What I have realized not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and different industries and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you, and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com.
You take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.