On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. I'm obsessed with not having a real job. Okay? That's my obsession. It's never having to be under thumb of anyone. If if you're listening right now and you're not fired up, just turn it off because we're not the same people. The dirty secret of e commerce is that virtually nobody is making any in that game. Many people like to talk. Oh, I sold 1,000,000 of dollars worth of this, but again, it's all stuck in inventory and it all goes back into marketing.
But capitals enforces you to care about other people, and that's why I love it. Okay. They they make it out like Jeff Bezos, a bad guy. Oh, it's a bad guy. So rich. He's a bad guy. Why is he so rich? Cause he's a freaking amazing business owner. That's why. Because don't use Amazon then. Who's forcing you to by Apple who's forcing you to use Amazon. Nobody. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, gathering the Kings podcast coming back to you here today with another king on the stage.
Ben Camille, my brother. How are we doing? I'm doing great, man. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, man. You know, I we just got off of a a little a little side note over here. You were just giving me some awesome words encouragement, and I just so appreciate you. I just wanna I had to say that publicly that this is gonna be super special, not because just because you're a a great entrepreneur. We're gonna get into your 20 year history here.
But I can tell that you appreciate the things that are are valuable. And so I just wanna tell you, thank you for being here. You're welcome. Yeah, man. I think that Chaz people are gonna get a lot out of the show. So tell us what kind of business that you have right now. So before I answer that, I wanna just tell you why I do appreciate what you do so much because I am an entrepreneur, and I am someone that really does wanna notice what's going on around me.
And so when I see something that's unique and it's different, I notice it. Okay. A lot of people don't notice it and kind of flies by, but it goes into my business and how we began it, and that's a big part of it really kinda noticing what the opportunities are around you. So I run travel defend, which is a travel insurance brokerage. It doesn't sound very exciting, but it is very exciting. Essentially, right now, We work with 100 of tour operators, travel agents. We have thousands of clients.
There's a massive hole in that market in terms of travel insurance. People are just you know, very ignorant. You know, I'm not here to offend anyone, but the reality is there's tremendous ignorance that exist in terms of travel insurance for 20 years, I ran a luxury tour company, and this is kind of an offshoot of that. And so we're here working with not just luxury clients, but many luxury clients making sure they're legitimately protected.
The commissions are insanely fantastic, and so we can get into why it's such a great business by I think there's a lot of lessons here for the listeners for sure. Well, I appreciate your authenticity about some of those things, even just in that first couple sentences, It's the vibe that I got even from being on your website, just that there was transparency and authenticity, and I think that we're gonna get that from you here today. Think that's a little bit of your styles.
You've mentioned that there's a a major pivot here. And, obviously, the travel industry is one that is never gonna go away, but here a couple years ago, it went to 0 real fast, and and you had to fight through that. So you're gonna have I I hate I hate the the idea of like, hey. How did you survive through COVID. I'm sure you probably told that story several times, but I'm sure we'll get to Yeah. That major mountain for you.
Before we do though, you personally, as the entrepreneur, who's been in business now 20 years and wanting to pay attention and and do the things that are, you know, be be in the motion, like, as you kind of talked about at the beginning, what's in it for you? Like, what why are you an entrepreneur? Like, the deep seated, the thing that beats, like, real deep in there. Why? Yeah. I mean, something has to be a little wrong with you. You have to be a little Chaz.
Yeah. Because most of, you know, and it's funny now that I'm forty years old, I look back. I can really have perspective. You look at your high school class, and you really can say, oh, who was the who were successful? Who weren't? And it it's so funny to look at. And I see that, I don't know, 95% of all my friends They're not entrepreneurs. They have regular jobs. You know, they're management consultants. And I'm like, you're a consultant. I'm like, what do you know? You don't know anything.
How do you how are you a management consultant? Know, sometimes when you grow up with people, you can't imagine, like, anyone would hire you. But the point is is that I started young. I played college baseball. I was a baseball player. I was a division 1 ball player. And really up to the time I graduated from college, I never thought about business. I never thought about money.
I was really kinda just focused on baseball And when that kind of ended, it got to a point where I remember meeting with a friend of mine. And, I mean, this may sound funny, but at the time, he just said, look. Let's figure out a way to make you $30 a year. Okay? And I was like, okay. $30 a year. I'm like, what what are we doing? Like, I didn't do nothing. Okay. He's like, you could either get a real job or you can figure out a way to make $30 a year.
That was our way of looking at it when I was, I don't know, twenty years old. Yeah. And I got to a point where I just tried a lot of different things, and eventually I got into running super, super luxury tours. I mean, I'm talking ultimate in luxury, Everyone saw us coming a mile away. It was a disaster in the beginning.
That's a whole other story we can get into if you want to, but the point is we really fought through it I remember the first time I met with a high end hotel, the lady that was showing me around, she said to me, oh, is this like a school project or something? And I'm like, Yeah. We're giving you, like, 100 of 1000 of dollars for my school project. I'm like, what the hell are you saying? Like, it really people couldn't compute that I was really trying to run this Yeah.
My family, many people around me told me that I will fail, and I shouldn't do it. And this is Chaz, and this was back in the days when you can get a loan from a bank. And I was living in my parents basement. I mean, I got somehow a loan from a bank. My family does not come from any money. I mean, we Chaz literally had nothing. And so somehow, we were able to over years really turn that into something that I will say was very successful.
And kind of to jump ahead, COVID was really a game changer for us. COVID happened. It destroyed us, not just financially, but I would say it destroyed my confidence it destroyed me mentally. I have a family like we discussed with kids. Yeah. And for 3 years, I didn't make any money. Okay? So all my life savings was shot. It was gone. And, you know, that that was something that I think that we probably should get into because there's a lot of lessons there.
Sure. But the point is I really kind of went down to a level of appreciating. You know what? Life is not just about money, and it's not and, you know, you have to really kind of get into a different mindset of just appreciating what you do have. Yeah. You know, I remember I told my son. He's nine years old. I told him, I said, would you sell one of your eyes for a $1,000,000? Okay. And to him, a $1,000,000 would be, like, the best thing that ever could create. It'd be created.
And I and he said, no. Are you crazy? And I'm like, well, then you are a millionaire. Mean, if you have something that you wouldn't sell for a $1,000,000, you are a millionaire. Okay? And so I know it sounds like kitschy or whatever, but it's really true. Okay? Like, we really have to appreciate our health. We have to appreciate what we have. Now coming back from COVID, I knew that nobody was gonna book these super luxury vacations without travel insurance.
And so I became really hyper focused on it, and I became obsessed with it. And I think it's really just, I don't know, if you wanna say from god or whatever it is, why I became so focused on travel insurance. Like, who cares about it? But I got obsessed with it. Okay? I wanted to understand it. I understood the policies. I wanted to understand everything there was to know about it. And not just Chaz. I wanted to make sure people will get paid in real life. Okay?
So I went to all the industry events. I started meeting. Who are the head of the claims departments? Who's the decision maker on these policies from all these companies? And I just immersed myself to such a degree that I kinda became an expert very quickly. Yeah. I started selling it to my own clients and the commission structure is fantastic. They pay huge commissions and travel insurance. So if I have, let's say, I'll give you an example.
Let's have a couple in their sixties, seventies, know, paying, let's say, 15, $20 on a on a on a tour. I mean, that could cost 2 to $3 right there. Okay? And I can get 40% of that. Okay. So it's It's cash. It's straight cash. I mean, you're making very good money very quickly. We never add a penny to the cost. I don't it's the same cost it would be anyway. Yep. But we have all the expertise. We make sure they get paid and all this kind of stuff. And so we really full service.
And then I went to all the other companies in my niche, I said, look, you guys are in the same boat. You need help with this. Your clients are gonna book with you either. They started sending them all our all their people, and we were doing that and giving them back a commission. And now we've built it. We have hundreds of tour companies. We work with 100 of travel agents. We have thousands of clients, and it really has I I've given up the tour business. This is a much better business.
Yep. So that's I don't know. I I guess that's as quick as I can. No, dude. All of that. I mean, if if you're listening right now and you're not fired up, just turn it off because We're not the same people. Every part of that, especially as you were kinda getting into, like, I don't know why I was obsessed with this. Like, I just wanted to know all the and crannies and the policy details, and I wanted to meet the people. And you were being thrusted into this next thing.
And the mindset that you had was obviously the complete opposite of, you know, a victim I've been taking advantage of from COVID and the and the government or this or that or I don't have any money or you just could've told yourself a story in so many different ways. In fact, actually, you were just talking about being grateful or having appreciation for things, health wise, whatever. Sometimes when we get those things kinda too far back there, we've kinda forget about them.
I was listening to a podcast actually this morning. And I I rarely do this when I'm working out, but I was sent to a podcast this morning. And the guy was talking about his mindset shift when he was going through a a death with his dad. And he was talking about mental health and how he found this picture of his dad. It was his the last picture known of his dad, but it was literally his dad was dead. It was a picture of him, his dead body there in the casket or whatever it was. I don't know.
Wow. And he hated this picture, and it just, like, it really got him, like, frustrated every single time until he started working on it until he started working on it more until he said, I fell in love with the picture, and I'm sitting there. I'm gonna be doing chest press today going, what in the world is he talking about? I did chest press today too. We gotta talk about that. Alright.
So so he's like, couple minutes later, he's like, dude, I fell in love with the picture because it's the this picture of my dad. Yeah. Everything is is mental structure. Right? It's a way of looking at things. Yeah. That's cool. That's a cool story. You've been in this travel world for 20 plus years. COVID's on the, like, the the the tickle. Right? Like, everybody's talking about it. It hasn't come burning, crashing down. What are you thinking in that moment? Well, again, I I I can't.
I'm not here to talk about anyone else and and all Chaz, but in my world, personally, all the people that I know and all my friends and everyone in my community, everyone benefited from COVID. Okay? I was in my Wolfe, again, obviously, I'm not. There were millions of people that got hammered, but I was the only one in my world that really got destroyed. And so, essentially, we had a massive event.
It was starting in April, there would have been 1,000,000 of dollars coming in, okay, and about a week before the governor of California shut down. It was in San Diego this event. He shut down events. Right? And at the time now we look back, and that's somewhat normal. But at the time, I'm like, shut down events. Like, what the hell are you talking about? You're shutting down. This was American freedom. I was like, this is not possible. People are asking me, are you gonna cancel?
I'm like, I will never cancel. Why would I cancel? I'm all pay I every all the bank accounts are full. We're ready to rock. Okay? I was literally at the property a few days before setting up, like, final details with the with the, you know, with the hotel staff and all this kind of stuff. And anyway, so that happened. And all of a sudden, I was the bad guy. Right? I'm this terrible guy. Everyone's screaming at me. We want our money back, and we're talking about 1,000,000 of dollars. Okay?
Yeah. And so we kind of you know, internally looked at everything. We said, look, we already spent 25% of what we got in creating this event because I mean, well, how how are you supposed to create an event? You know, we're we're talking about food going 24 hours a day. We're talking about super high enter entertainment. This is all families also. Kids. We had day camp, day care. We had world famous speakers, you know, like Ben Shapiro, Dennis Prager. All these guys come to our our event.
As speakers. Alright. We already paid out a lot of money. Yeah. So we looked at everything internally, and we told everyone, look, we can give you 75% back of what you gave. And I know that's not like that doesn't make them happy that they did lose money. Yeah. But that's what I have. I'm like, I don't have a penny more than that. I'm saying, what am I supposed to do? Yeah. And so we Chaz everyone basically was was cool with that.
For a while, the hotel didn't wanna give us we had 800,000 in with them with deposits. They didn't wanna give that money back. They said, yeah, we'll roll it over to the future. I'm like, bro, who knows what the future holds? Nobody. Do I know that what what's gonna happen here? I mean, this is like the craziest situation ever. So we were very, very, very tough on the hotel. They did give us, thank, you know, thank god. They gave us that money back. Yeah. And we gave everyone 75%.
And now I just worked an entire year, and I was about to make money for my family. And so that happened a week. That event was a week after like, they shut COVID. It was, like, end of March. Okay. I don't know if you remember that time. And so our event was beginning of April. And so I gave all that money back. I had nothing. I just worked the whole year. I have thing, and our events were in California. So, you know, it was another 2 years. So it was really 3 years between events.
And so I don't know I don't know what your question was, honestly. This was a very hard time. I think we got a very hard time. We got we got plenty, man. Are you I I love I love the energy, honestly, for that moment, because I think that we were all there. We we all remember what we were doing in March when all this was happening.
Yeah. But for you to have 1,000,000 of dollars come in and out, like, just, you know, and and basically you feel, you know, robbed a little bit, taken advantage of Well, everyone hated me. Yeah. And everyone was upset with me. And so we had to kind of remind people, like, we didn't do this. Okay. But when money's on the line, you know, people can get very ugly. That's right. And we had some people that were so beautiful and so, like, understanding.
And we even had people that were like, look, a lot of these people are very wealthy. Okay? But still, who cares? Wealthy people like their money. Okay? And so we even had I I still remember I was actually crying on the phone with one of our clients, came to us for years, and he said to me, he goes, look, don't even have to give me any money back. You know, whenever you can whenever you can.
And and it's just the way he said it and the way he did it, it hit me so hard that I literally and I was under so much stress And I just started crying on the phone, like, like, like, a baby almost. I mean, it was just very, you know, it was just it was really destroyed my Wolfe. And I did we did.
We gave them the money back just like everyone else, but some people were very beautiful, and there were some people that were so ugly You don't realize when you act ugly like that, it made us, like, not wanna give them as I mean, we were going to. We gave everyone back, but the point is it doesn't help to be ugly like that. Like, they think they're gonna, like, get themselves better position, but it really doesn't. You know? And so that that was a big struggle.
Was Chaz that that emotional moment for you of really just someone giving you some grace and seeing you. We don't get that as entrepreneurs very often. I I kinda have a storyline that I follow, and most entrepreneurs, I think, can relate to it where You know, it's like, you've always been the guy. Right? I've always been the guy. Every circle that I'm in, I'm always the guy. Right? I'm the I'm the guy in my house. I'm the guy in my marriage. I'm the guy.
You know, in any sort of environment I've ever been in, you know, outside of business we're in. And and that's actually how we like it because we've we our creators. We create our environment. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't get heavy sometimes. And so, obviously, that that's a big reason why I even started gathering the Kings a couple years ago. Is to be able to have a group of people around me that would help me carry the weight.
But for you in that moment, that's in essence what was happening. This other guy was like, hey, dude. I see you. Let me carry a little bit of that with you. And it, like, moved you. What do you think? Yeah. What's the what's the takeaway for the listener in that? Like, they they weren't there with you. They could obviously feel the emotion, but What can they glean from that?
I mean, I think the takeaway is that when you're going through hard times, especially when you're an entrepreneur and you're really starting out and you feel like the world is against you, there are people out there that will help you. And I know people are shy to ask for help.
Yeah. But, you know, I find in my situation as well, And it may not be someone that's super successful, but there's always people around you that that, you know, either want to give their time for you, or they wanna give their knowledge for you. And it's very flattering, I think, to some very successful people. If you reach out to them, you will be surprised that they really it's not everyone. I mean, some there's not, you know, there's bad people or some people just busy and it's fine.
But you'll be surprised if you reach out to some very successful people. Oftentimes, they know they've been down that road and they really will help you. And I think it's not often enough that people will reach out and say, hey, man. You know, you've done something amazing. I would love to just get some advice from you. I your thoughts, and people love to give their advice.
So I I think that just to feel that you're not alone, even if you did come from a background of you know, you're poor and you don't really look at yourself as very advantaged in terms of what you have to create a business. Well, it's good for this guy because, look, he has blah blah blah, but I don't have any of that. Right? I think we shortchange our Wolfe a lot.
I mean, I think that's the lesson that that you have more power than you think and There are people out there willing to help you if you kind of just are not shy, reach out, and you're cool to get rejected. You gotta handle that. You know? Yeah. I think it's a beautiful thing for folks to realize it's just the courage then to be able to step into that. Also, the then the courage when we then have the opportunity to be that person. Right? Cause that's part of kingship is not just yeah.
Like, next time you're in a situation where some other entrepreneur or system or business or whatever has has maybe given you a little bit of a a pressure situation. How how are you acting? Yeah. I I do. I love to give advice. I mean, I have a lot of people in my world that do come to me for advice, honestly. And I'm very opinionated about my advice. I don't know if I'm always right, but I'm very passionate about it. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely.
It's the it's the principle, I guess, of, I mean, I'm I'm going I'm either going up or down. Either way, it's like, It was my choice, you know, and and Yeah. Yeah. You know, either way is fine, but I'm not gonna be swayed, you know, one way or the other, which is great. The story of of COVID, obviously, a massive, you know, mountain for you to move. Let's fast forward just a little bit here. Inside of this pivot. What was the good decision?
You you said you I started to pay attention to people aren't gonna travel in your regular business without this other thing, so it started to glean your attention Chaz was just like the really practical decision that you made, whether it was the actual pivot, you know, because it was learning about the new industry? What was just something super practical we did? I mean, I think that there were you know, there's a concept that I think is very important.
You know, like, if I said to you, you may have heard this before, but it really resonated with me. If I say to you, okay, this morning, how many blue cars have you seen driving, let's say, to work or whatever you did. Right? Right. And you would say, oh, I you don't really know. You say, well, I'm not really sure. If I would've told you, I'll give you a thousand bucks for every blue car that you see, right, you're gonna know that number. You're gonna say, oh, I saw 7. Right?
And the point is is that these opportunities are always around you, and we don't notice it. That's a huge lesson for entrepreneurs Like, for example, during COVID, right, I was really destroyed mentally, destroyed financially. Many people that I know I'll give you an example. They started COVID clinics. Okay? All they got was a storefront. They had some nurse, and it was just it there's nothing to it. Don't have to be some medical professional. Okay?
And they literally just did COVID testing all day and it was racking cash minute to minute all day. Any one of us listening could have done that. K? Maybe some did. But I would I would venture to say 99% of us didn't do that. Okay? Now, again, that's not something you can do forever. Fine. But it's an opportunity and guys did very well. Okay. Yeah. Like, very Wolfe. But Could I see that opportunity at the time? No. I couldn't see it because I I was so destroyed.
I wasn't even, like, my mine wasn't open to it. Yeah. And so when this opportunity came, COVID is kind of, you know, it it's I don't know what word you wanna use. It's fizzling or whatever it is, and we're going back into the real world. I knew It was on my list with my business partner travel insurance Chaz I gotta figure this out. Yeah. Why? Let me ask you. Why out of thousands of tour operators that exist in America Okay? You know how many did what I did?
0. Yeah. I was gonna say hardly any of it. No. 0. Because you know how many travel insurance brokerage, concierge services like what we do, there is no one else doing this. It doesn't exist in America. Wow. Which is crazy. You would say, oh, of course, it does. Trust me. I've done a lot of research on they have. You can either buy travel insurance directly through, let's say, Allianz or AIG, you know, go to their website. You don't know what the hell you're buying.
Something happens to you, you're a faceless, nothing. They they're not you don't even know what's going on. Right? Or you can go to, like, an Expedia type website and they'll give you a 100 options. But again, you know nothing and you're you are nothing. To the insurance companies, you are nothing.
Yeah. Ken, is there anyone you can call to actually have real guidance who can actually we have access to every policy in America, figure out what's good for you, do the paperwork for you, make sure you get paid, and we don't charge for this. We don't charge a penny for this. So the point is is like, yes. You have travel agents who will do their own clients. You have tour operators who are doing their own clients, but these people know nothing. They know nothing.
If you have a real prom, they're like, we can't help you. And so the point is what we do is very special. It's very unique. It took time to fig even figure out what did I have here and even put the pieces together. Right. But the point is this opportunity was available to anybody in, let's say, the tour industry because we were all in the same boat. Yep. And I came out of it And I didn't realize until actually I was on another podcast recently that I was like, yeah. You know what?
I really did do something very special because the fact is I saw an opportunity and I attacked it. And I made it happen, and there's nobody else doing this in the entire country. And so you can imagine the potential we have Yeah. I think we'll be as big as any travel insurance company in itself. I mean, we have and if you look at at the competition, right, they're all fighting. All these idiots fighting with each other. Okay? What company should you use? AIG, Allianz, whatever. You don't know.
You don't care. You're not loyal to any of these companies, but with us, I have access to everything. So I'm not competing with anybody. I'm saying, what do you want? Yep. We'll talk about it. We'll make sure you have it. And so the point is we're really kind of in our own world in terms of, business model, which which is is lucky and special and very blessed, you know, to have that.
Yeah. I think that the story that we're hearing you say is or even just that maybe you had a a recent enlightenment on it. It wasn't just that that you made a pivot. A lot of people made a pivot. They had to to survive during COVID. Yeah. But you saw a game changing opportunity, but then went after it. It wasn't Chaz you just attacked it. It was like, no. Like, I'm all in a 100%. Can I stop you for a second also? Because if that's okay? My business partner who I ran these tour companies with.
Okay? We were we grew up together since we were ten years old. We were literally in school our whole life, and we were best friends. Yeah. And now looking back, this sounds like, oh, what a fantastic idea. It's this is gonna work. I mean, it is working. We're bringing in 1,000,000 of dollars. He didn't wanna partner with me on this. We are partnering together a whole life. He told me terrible idea. This is not gonna work. No one else is gonna talk to you. No one else is gonna work with you.
Know, you're not gonna be able to get all the tours on board and da da da. And so the point is is that it it it is obvious now that it's successful but it wasn't obvious at the time. And that's, I think, a big lesson for entrepreneurs because you always like to look after and you say, well, this guy has this cool, this travel insurance you know, he lucked out and got into this unique situation. Trust me. It wasn't so obvious. Everyone I spoke to was like, travel insurance is $20.
What are you talking about? How you been making money on that? You know, and we have policies now that are done, which I could tell you about, which are $20,000 policies. Okay? So the point is there's a lot here, but it was not obvious to anybody at the time. I mean, as we were beginning it, I was thinking also maybe of doing, like, a made service company. Like, we had a lot of ideas on the table. It wasn't like so obvious.
And then as we're thinking of this made service or different businesses, travel insurance cash keeps coming in. I'm like, maybe I should just focus on this. Like, it actually is working pretty well. So, yeah, that was that was interesting. I there's so much here. I wanna read you a quote that I I just posted this. It says 40 minutes ago. So before our show, I posted this. I want to I wanna know your opinion. It Chaz, when you are obsessed with getting better, your mind can't stay stuck.
The very act of obsessing over bettering yourself forces your mind to find new solutions. Yeah. It's everything that you just said? I like that. Yeah. I was obsessed. I was obsessed, but You are. I can hear it. Yeah. Like, I saw the opportunity, and I knew, listen, I'm obsessed with not having a real job. Okay? That's my obsession. Is never having to be under the thumb of anyone. I just met my friend in the gym, okay, literally, like, an hour ago.
And he's telling me how he's a lawyer and he's at his firm and he's working on some big account. And they just brought in some other guy and all this political crap. You know, they Chaz to deal with. He has to pretend that he's happy about this or else he's not gonna get the promotion. I don't have to deal with any of that stuff. Yep. You know, and so I'm committed to that. Yeah. And so, you know, I happen to be very passionate about travel insurance, but it's funny.
Like, if you get into it, you would be. But I think it's just passionate about being an entrepreneur. Hey, Kings and Queens. Jazz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too.
So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again all of the things on social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify. We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible. Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this.
Let's help each other. Let's help each other grow. What what is about that? I mean, you kinda talked about freedom there. You've also kinda mentioned that, you know, you've got a you've got a family, of course, and there's survival and, like, a per provision element, I guess, of that. But for you, it it really has transcended. Like, you you threw out made service. You threw, I mean, travel. Like, those are very different. For me, I've been in different industries.
Yeah. About about being an entrepreneur, is it creating pro or solving problems, creating solutions? Is it really just about winning? Is it about not having a job? Like, what? What's that? Well, for me personally, it comes to the point where I grew up in a situation. You know, my father passed away when I was three years old. K? And my mom had to support us, and she was an optician. K? So she made, I don't know, her $30 a year. And we really grew up with very meager you know, finances.
And so I remember very clearly, like, remember Reebok Pumps? You remember that? You might be the same age as me. Yeah. But, like, I couldn't have reebok pumps. Okay? And it still sits with me. I still remember. Wow. And I was like, oh my god. I want the reebo. And and everyone in my class had it. And my mom saw that it was like, I don't know, a $120 or something. And she's like, no. Like, you can't have it. You know? And so, like, just like I grew up in this kind of manner.
Like, I really grew up in a in a way that I think was was tough financially. Yeah. And so really, I'm I'm like a I'm a scrapper. You know, I'm a bare bones scrapper. And so to me, the main thing is I wanna just be able to survive Okay. That's like step 1. And, you know, now thank god. I'm doing a lot better than that. But the point is is that that's really for me where it came from. Now this is why I love capitalism. Right? Capitalism, you can have some people saying, oh, capitalism isn't good.
It's not, you know, I don't know what they say, but they they're all against capitalism. For some reason. But the point is is that what is capitalism? It's kindness. Right? It's all it is is if I think about Chaz and I think about you and I think about what you need and I provide that to you in a fen fantastic way, you're gonna wanna give me your money. Okay? That's right. They make it out like Jeff Bezos, a bad guy. Oh, he's a bad guy. He's so rich. He's a bad guy. Why is he so rich?
Cause he's a freaking amazing business owner. That's why. Yeah. Because don't use Amazon then. Who's forcing you to buy Apple? Who's forcing you to use Amazon. Nobody. Yep. It's such an obvious argument. It's so stupid that we live in a society that people don't even see these basic concepts. But capitals enforces you to care about other people, and that's why I love it. And so, yes, my my business is here, and I am passionate about helping people and I am and about giving them quality.
And when I ran a luxury tour company, I I always hated that vibe or that feeling that someone paid all this money and didn't get their value. Yeah. And so I'm very into just giving people great value and really giving them what they want. And I think it it leads into this business as well. We're very passionate about helping people and making sure that if you buy a policy with us, for example, we will make sure you get paid. But it always stemmed to me just from survival.
I just wanted to be able to survive and not rely on anyone else. And that that's to answer your question. Like, for me, it wasn't about helping people. It was about for me trying to survive. And then the beauty of capitalism that it does help people, and that is the only way to succeed. You have to help people. Yeah. Yeah. And you're right. I think every entrepreneur listening right now has taken that same journey.
It starts out of survival to some degree, some sort of provision, and then eventually you realize the game. You're like, oh, if I increase the value or I help more people or, like you said, pay closer attention to people's needs, then I can actually transact at a higher level, either more people, or at a higher margin. Oh, This makes sense. Let me do that. Like, that it's in essence capitalism, but thanks for the the clear teaching there because it's it's that simple.
Let's flip the coin here because somewhere in here, you made a bad choice. I wanna know with this new business because, like you said, it wasn't that obvious. You had a partner that didn't believe in you. Nobody else was even around this circle going. Let's do it, dude. What was the bad choice along the way after you kinda took the courage to make it Listen, that's a fantastic question. And it's something that I think everyone is gonna have an answer to.
This business in particular and we can go into why, but it it is the perfect business. It's hard to create a more perfect business than this. And so my only negative decision was taking so long to jump in on it. It was just me not trusting it or not believing it. Sure. But the fact is when you talk about a business that I spent 0 think about this. I I bet you there's no one listing that even this exists. Okay. Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it does, but not not not common. Every minute.
Yeah. Yeah. $00 marketing. 0 not $10 0. Okay? Set up a website, $0 Merrick marketing, bringing in, let's say, in terms of gross, you wanna say 1st year, $1,500,000 in sales. Okay? $0 marketing. There's no inventory. No inventory. So you have a, you have no marketing, and then you have no inventory. And then you know what business costs you have? 0. Because typically, if I create a business, I have to now provide the service. Okay?
Most people buying, they end the phone call saying, I hope I never have to use your product. Right. I'm like, me too. We all hope you never have to use it. Yeah. So the fact is Chaz normally when you scale a business, you can't scale properly because you need more product usage. You need more money for marketing. You need more back end to be able to help you fulfill the product. Okay? The insurance companies handle the back end. They already pay all the claims. They have the whole system set up.
Okay? Our heavy lifting is just the phones, you know, that we have to be on the phones. And I have a whole team with me now that are just on the phones with people. Right. And we're all experts at this and helping people. But as a business, it's almost impossible to have a better, you know, financially set up business than this. Love it. Love it.
Okay. So for the person that's listening right now, obviously, if they haven't jumped in, you know, you're you're suggesting to jump in, but this idea of signing up is actually an ongoing thing. Right? So you have to continue to re sign up. Even though you've gotten a great great business, you make money. There's still days where you're like, you know, because that's just entrepreneurialism. For that guy listening right now, what would you say to that guy to to re sign up again?
And and again Well, well, how do we know he should re sign up again? Maybe he has a crappy business. I'm saying, like, not every business is great. Okay? And I've been a part of some bad businesses as well. I started an ecommerce company during COVID that was you know, really, really tough. The the dirty secret of e Commerce, which we can get into as well if you want to. The dirty secret of e Commerce is virtually nobody is making any money in that game. Many people like to talk.
Oh, I sold 1,000,000 of dollars worth of this. But, again, it's all stuck in inventory, and it all goes back into marketing. You can look at companies like Casper, k, mattresses, which is a very big company. I think they they sold maybe $600,000,000 worth or something like Chaz. They're not profitable. They're not profitable. The point is these e commerce companies very hard to ever actually turn profit And that was what I learned over time of doing it kind of like during the 3 years of COVID.
I was just trying to do something to figure something out. And for whatever reason, that was the idea me and my business partner came up with that we're gonna start, like, a men's fashion brand in terms of accessories sunglasses, watches, things like that. Now we always we made it in the sense where it was we didn't go under, you know, like, we were making money, but, like, peanut money, you know, nothing big.
But the point is if I would have put all my eggs in that basket and really put everything I had into it, it would have been a a major major mistake because that type of business model just doesn't make money. So I think many people have to be honest with themself. Is the business I'm in actually a good business? Many people are in really, really crappy businesses, and so you're having a very hard time because it's not a good business. Okay?
Yeah. So again, we have to they have to be honest with yourself about that. If it's a good business that you're in, what you need to do is you need to look at the offer need to look at what do you offer and why is it different. Like, my nephew came to me and he wanted to buy a company, which I don't think is a good idea anyway. That's a whole other story. But the point is you wanted to buy a Turkish towel company. K? So I sent them a very basic question. I said, what is your differentiator?
I said there's 8,000,000,000 Turkish towel companies and nobody cares what Turkish style they have in their house. No one could give a Chaz. What company it's from? It feels good. Looks good. Why would I buy your Turkish tau over anyone else's Turkish tau. And he never had an answer for that basic question. If you can't answer the these kind of basic questions, like, you love to do you love pizza. So you're gonna open a pizza shop.
I mean, if to be honest with yourself, like, is your pizza actually going to be better than anyone else's or maybe your location is very special. Or there has to be some differentiator that makes it worthwhile. If it is, and that's true. And it's really been figured out that this is a good business. Then you just gotta grow a pair of balls and you just gotta fight. And that's the only thing it what every day is gonna be rainbows? No. But you know, it's like working out. The same thing. K?
And I and I love to work out, you know, is that some days, maybe you don't wanna work out. It's not as fun to work out. Some days, it is very fun to work out. But, like, I'm to a point where I don't care if it's fun or not fun. That's not relevant to me. Like, like, I the the the relevant decision was I decided that years ago that lifting weights and working out is what is best for my health. What's the alternative? You become oily and fat and disgusting.
Okay. And then you get diabetes and what is the alternative here? Right? Yeah. So once that decision has been made, It's over. There's nothing to think about. Many days I show up in the gym, I don't even know I don't even know how I got there. I'm, like, in the middle of, like, starting my set. And I don't even think about it. I'm like, wow. I'm here. I'll I'll read you a quote. Okay? This is from Hermozi who I'm sure you love. Oh, yeah.
The world belongs to those who can keep doing without seeing the result of their doing. Okay? Yeah. So that's the answer. If you know you have something good, you just gotta you just gotta keep going. And and, you know, you know, you're on the right track. Keep going. If you're not on the right track, you gotta be honest with yourself. But if you are, the only answer to your question is you just gotta keep going. Fight the good fight. And, you know, great things Wolfe have.
We have slow days here. I'm not saying we always are killing it. We have slow days. And when it's slow, it sucks. And you kinda get depressed a little bit, and you kinda think like, oh, man, what do I need to do? And then, you know, you keep pushing. And before you know it, Wow. There's a new client here, and you you just made tons of money. And, like, things turn. It happens, and you just gotta fight the good fight.
Yeah. The the baseline decision or the filter, rather, that you presented here to the listener is, are they in the right vehicle? And and I think it determines where they're gonna go. And and so I to be a little bit more precise here, we're using that analogy. Am I in a two seater trying to go fast, or am I in a suburban? Cause I have my family with me. What's the point? Where am I going? How far is it gonna take? What kind of vehicle do I need? What what would you suggest?
Because, obviously, the definition of your business and whatever type of vehicle that is in real life. Versus this other guy, obviously, his wants desires out of life might be different. How does he figure that out as far as whether he's in the right business or vehicle or not? Mean, it's such a broad question. Right? It's hard to to give kind of like a one all answer for everyone, but I would say you'd have to look at your skill set. What are you good at?
Chaz can you offer someone and then do it in a way that that you don't dislike. I'm not into if you really dislike the business, you shouldn't do it. Find something that you like. Like, I'm really good on the phones, okay, like sales on the phones. Now I have a whole team that does that for me now, and I don't do much of Chaz. But the point is I enjoy the business.
You know, in my current my other business when I was a tour operator, a major part of that business was the the kitchens and the food service and all Chaz. I would walk into a kitchen and even though I did it for almost 20 years, 17 years, I never understood kitchen stuff. It was always like, It just didn't, like, when you're talking about that level, we have a thousand people for 10 days. Okay? So we're talking about busting food. Like, it's it's a Wolfe. And you really need to know that Wolfe.
My business partner, you know, he just kind of, like, learned it and and it hit work for his brain. And for me, it just did it. So I was more in the front dealing with the clients and making sure, you know, I was front of the house, you know, dealing with everyone. Yep. But the point is is that, you know, when it comes to your skill set, you gotta be be honest about what what you're good at and what you enjoy doing.
Yeah. And and and I would say that's probably the biggest thing because because being an entrepreneur is is fantastic. Right? So we don't wanna make it miserable. You know, we don't want it to be miserable. If if it's working and you have something that you enjoy, then it's great. If you have a business that you hate every day, what are we doing? I mean, you know, go get a real job.
Yeah. The control the controllables, and it's like, man, if you already gonna be hard enough to to to overcome your partner who doesn't wanna do it, your family that thinks you're stupid, you know, all the other things that come along with being a business owner. Yeah. Speaking of family, let's kinda parlay here into, you know, your family. You've recently made some big changes in your world because of your family, but, you know, I guess my question is, clearly you're an obsessive person.
We've seen how that has worked for you in your business and businesses over the years. Yeah. How does that work for you as an entrepreneur in your marriage? In your family, in your health, you've mentioned going to the gym. Like, what I see a lot a lot of times is a guy or gal thinks Chaz, well, I gotta be all in, and they kinda put those priorities down or even off the list altogether, and they don't know how to be obsessed with all of it all at the same time. What would you say?
Yeah. That is that is a good question, man. That is a hard thing to do Chaz we all know. I I happen to be very blessed, you know, in the sense that my wife can really she's not like, I even noticed this when we were dating, some girl, and I dated a lot, bro. I dated over a thousand girls. Okay. So we can really talk about that. But the point is, like, you actually know that number. It's a lot. It's up there. Okay. I was an infant guys.
Like, honestly, every night, I would try and get dates going Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Like, different. Like, I I was into that. That was why. Yeah. How much did you get the right one if I don't have enough opportunities in the pipeline? Yeah. I it was fun for me. I mean, that's kinda like what I was into. I mean, I've been married almost 12 years now. So that's, like, kind of been gone for a Wolfe, but the point is, is that I could tell when we were dating.
She never once asked me, oh, when are we getting married? She's not a needy type at all, and she's very self sufficient. And I think that that really lends well into into this life because she wants me to succeed and she's not involved in my business. I would never let her get involved in my business. Everyone's different. Certain marriages maybe work like that. For us, if she was involved in this, it would be disastrous. I don't want her ever involved in any of that.
But she can handle, our kids and she can handle that kind of thing. And she really does allow me to do my thing and kind of, like, to succeed in that way. But everyone's personality is different, you know, and obviously I have kids and I I wanna be with them and I need to be with them. Yeah. But, you know, I I'm with them in in the evenings. I'm with them in the morning and I take my kids to school and stuff like that. But, yeah, listen, life is is is is kind of a struggle in that way.
I mean, you gotta make time for everything. And I think in the beginning, it's hard. It's the hardest in the beginning. In the beginning, something is going to probably have to fall. Yeah. And you're gonna have to to just if you're if you're committed in a relationship or whatever, you're gonna say, look, for us to get this off the ground, I'm gonna have to go, you know, balls to the Wolfe, basically. But that doesn't mean it has to be like that forever.
I mean, I, in the beginning of my company, I mean, I was taking all the calls. I was helping everyone with claims. I was doing everything. Yep. I know, I have a team now that helps me. And so that has taken a lot of load off me. I hire managers now who are fantastic. Who, are real killers. I mean, they're amazing. And so if you hire really fantastic people, I look in and check-in but it it takes a huge load off of me. And then I can spend my time doing this with you. Right?
This is the kind of stuff I like to do. Is go out there and try to build the brand and go after tour operators and travel agents in a high level. Right. Way. But, yeah, I mean, it it is tough. Listen. No one says it's not easy. And it's not easy. I mean, I can't I can't lie to you and say, oh, yeah. There's some magical answer. It's it's hard. Yeah. It is hard.
Yeah. Especially with that family, I I think you hit the nail right on the head there with with the importance of the spouse, I would say the same thing for me. Julie, my wife not involved in our businesses from a a perspective other than some help when I need it, you know, but, you know, really, it's more of a a support. And and Chaz sounds, I think, for a lot of entrepreneurs, that sounds, weak.
Like, that I would need support, but the support is, like, what you're saying, the freedom to just go do your thing and to know that she's, like, like, go get them Chaz. You know? Like, that's just so powerful for guys, I guess. Yeah. And, listen, I know that everyone's different. Everyone's marriage is different. I'm not saying this is the only way it has to be. Right. Like, my my other friend, his wife is an advertising executive.
Yeah. And so she helps him in in that marketing of their business tremendously. Totally. I I don't have that. Listen. Everyone's different, you know, but the point is, you know, to to have someone that you can allow yourself to focus because focus is key. If you're not gonna be able to focus and by the way, we should touch on this because many people have side businesses. And many side businesses are a problem. Okay?
So you really, I think over time, you have to commit to something and and build that because if you're going to have many little side businesses, I think it's tough to ever really succeed in a proper way. Yeah. There's only so many hours in the day. I mean, I don't want to do so much. Yeah. I I've used the phrase attention units and how how many we get.
Let's say let's call it a 100, but If even if it that little side thing only takes 2 or 3, it's still 2 or 3 that I don't have to put towards something else. We actually had a guy inside of the mastermind group gathering kings about a year ago present in the hot seat around I think he's got 4 companies, but one of which was a little bit smaller.
It was an old family business Chaz he had purchased and And, really, it was just low margin, difficult customers, and he was just like, and the circle was like, dude, just get rid of and he did. People have a hard time saying no. Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, it was his family's business from 40 years ago. You know? So, like, that's tough. Like, you're you're you're deep in the forest on Chaz. You know? So he but he did, though. A year later, he post that he shut that down.
That company actually made more 5% more that year because he shut that part of it down. And his other business, his main business grew 37%. I mean, good bye. Of course. That that's gonna happen. How how could you be conceded to think that Other people are doing this full time. You're doing it part time, and you're gonna beat them. I mean, come on. That's right. It's good. It's good. Got one last question here for you, Ben. We've kinda we've touched on a lot of different topics here today.
Your energy is true, and I and I'm and I'm holding you to that same standard here on this because even though it's a little heartfelt, I I assume that you're gonna give us the same intensity. I want you to roll the clock back, and you need to look a younger bin. And you just tap him on the shoulder and you whisper in his ear. What do you tell him? So I've thought about this many times. Okay? Okay. And the real answer is What would you do? Right? You're going to a guy.
Let's say, what age am I, by the way? Is this fifteen year old? Your choice. Your choice. Okay. So you wanna say that I'm 15, 18. K. Right? You we're not gonna talk about, like, just flowery stuff. We're gonna give a real answer because what would you do? I know what you would do. You're you're smart like me. Right? You would tell this guy you need to invest in Amazon and Apple. Right? That's what you would tell him. Right? But the point is there's a lesson there. The lesson is the same passion.
Let's say I went to my younger self and I said, okay, bro. You need to put everything you can freaking get your hands on. K. I don't care how you get it. Steel, beg, whatever the hell you have to do, put it all in Amazon and Apple. Let's say that. Right? And the young Ben says, no. No. I'm cool. I'm cool. I'm good. I'm good. You're like, no. No. No. No. No. No. You're not good. You're doing this. You you're doing this.
And so the same passion has to happen when you're selling yourself and you're selling your product. If you believe genuinely in your staff, genuinely believe it's good for people, your staff will have that passion. So if you have people working for you or even if yourself, you're a set salesman and you're not successful, it's because you don't honestly believe it's good for that person. That's right.
If you believed it was good, you would fight to the death because I wouldn't let young Ben leave without doing that investment. Okay? Cause if he did that investment at 18, now 30 years later, we would be worth, I don't know, even if he put in a $100 or something, Wolfe, would it be worth now?
Probably, I don't know, 400,000,000 So the point is that, you know, that's the lesson is that if you have something good, you need to you need to be passionate people feel that passion, and they'll believe and know, okay. He's passionate because this is really great for me. And I believe it's great for him. You know? And that's the that's the lesson that I would say. Yeah. It's good, man.
The the answer there, I'm not sure if you I I may have said this once on another show potentially, but my producer, actually, at because I've asked this question a couple hundred times now. And so she asked me this was a while ago. She was like, hey. What would your answer be? And I answered it exactly how you said by Apple, by Amazon, by BigQuery. Easy cash. Yeah. And she was like, no. Come on. Give me the real answer. I'm like, I just did. What could you do that's better than that?
Yeah. I mean, like, literally, what could you do? Now I love how you turned it into a virtual because future. Remember, Beth, he knows the scores. He knows what's gonna happen. Right? Oh, man. So I I love though that's because because really, the the the question lends itself to what do you believe? Right?
What's what principles are you guiding here that you know now that you can share to your younger self, which The cool part about this question, and this is for the listener as Wolfe, is that you could still go implement this right now. Now you may not be able to say, hey. Go by Amazon. But it can be the same lesson that you just gave of be all in and passionate about about your stuff because that's what would have sold the younger you on buying the Amazon.
And so I think it's the same lesson that we can always just retell ourselves just today. If you want a successful product, create something that you really believe is good for people. Right. If you believe it and peep if it's true, if it really is true, you're gonna have people who are gonna come work for you, and they're gonna love to sell your product. Anytime I see people that are struggling to sell, it's because they don't believe that it's good.
If they really believed it was good for the client, they wouldn't be shy. And they would have a lot of passion and they would succeed on. You know, that's that's primarily why I've succeeded in selling because I am passionate about and I try to align myself with things that I know are good, and I believe are good. Yeah. It's right. It's actually in in integrity. The the the definition of integrity is not doing what's right.
It's what's right for what you've said, and so a thief is in integrity when he steals. Everything that you've just said is because I want to win, because I see value, because I wanna help people, even going back to the beginning of the show, you talked about capitalism, and this is what it is. As long as I can just pay attention to people's needs and actually just raise the bar, then I get I'm a beneficiary of that. And so why wouldn't I just do that more? That's the same the same lesson here.
So, Ben, one, if somebody's listening here today and they are about to go on some incredible tour of sorts and they need your product. They need to protect themselves. How can they find you? Or number 2, if they're an entrepreneur and they wanna pick your brain, how can they find you that way? So our company is called traveldefend.
So it's traveldefend.com, which by the way is is very interesting because when I was coming up with the name, The biggest travel insurance company in America is travel guard by AIG, k, travel guard. This is worth 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars. Any entrepreneur worth anything that's bought a website in the last don't know, a couple years, knows every single website on the planet is taken. You cannot find anything.
And so the fact that I got traveldefend.com perfect for Penny, by the way, is I was like, someone smiling on me. I was like, what anything you put in dotbiz.uk.co, it's all taken. A whole world's taken. And somehow Chaz was sitting there right for us. And so traveldefend.com. Go on there. You can call our team 1-800-578-2871. We're a concierge service You call in, and our team will give you time. They will figure you out, do the paperwork for you, make sure you're protected in real life.
We have a WhatsApp that we set up with all of our clients, which is monitored 24 hours a day. If you have any issue on your trip, you reach out to our team, and our team will help you. Again, that ties into we're offering more than anyone else offers. All these companies are dinosaurs. Good luck getting anyone of consequence on the phone yourself. You can't, but we can. We bring them 1,000,000 of dollars. We have a lot of power there. If anyone wants to reach out directly to me, I mean, easy.
You know, you can find me on LinkedIn. That's that's my game. I'm I'm a LinkedIn guy because in my business, at least, you know, all tour operators travel agents that I'm going after. I wanna partner with them. They're all on LinkedIn, and they're all saying, hey. I'm a tour operator. Hey. I'm a travel agent. So, you know, and it's acceptable to start business conversations on LinkedIn. So to me, personally, Instagram is useless. Facebook is useless. It's all about LinkedIn.
If you're a business owner, in my opinion, and there's a lot of power there that I think most people just leave by the wayside, which is a whole other conversation. I think if to bring me on again, we can get into Chaz. We've got a lot of offshoots here, man. We're gonna have to make sure we get another time. Your energy in life is contagious, and so I just wanna appreciate you for that. Now not only will I walk away from this conversation groan, but I think many of the listeners will as well.
So, Ben, thank you for just spending your time with us here today and encouraging us and just blessings on your business and all the things that you got moving, your family, all your beautiful kiddos. Thanks for being here, brother. Likewise, thanks to you. Have a great one. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more -uh. Businesses in multiple different industries and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you, and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com.
Want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.