On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. 2015, we grew it from 0 to now, you know, in 5000 fastest growing companies 2 years in a row. We'll see where we landed this year. We stopped making small decisions. We, we hired better peep. We took a lot of risks. I don't wanna be miserable. I don't wanna kill myself to make money. I don't wanna screw people to make money. I wanna do it right. So we both believe have, and it's cake. It's been a fun time here. I don't say that lightly.
I do a lot of shows and to be able to run with somebody that I I already I know that you're running hard just from our conversation here today. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, gathering the Kings podcast, coming to you here today. With not only another king, another king with another podcast who's making his way up in the ranks, my brother, Avidas, and Tapleon, how we do. We're doing great, man. Thank you for having me. Dude. I'm honored. Did I did I how bad did I butcher the name?
You actually did a great job, man. Not bad. Not bad. Considering how challenging the the name is. Hey. You know what? I had a good coach a couple seconds ago right before we hit the report button. I love it. Hey, in all seriousness, I'm I'm excited for this conversation. You have a a unique foothold in the market, and I'm excited for you to be able to share. Tell us what kind of business that you got Sure, brother. So so I'm the founder and CEO of, a company called HireCloud.
HireCloud is a, first of all, word, ink 5000 fastest growing company 2 years in a row. So I'll be actually I'll be going to San Antonio tomorrow for the, for the gala and the networking and all that. All the cool stuff that come with it. We're also Inc. Power partner, out of globally all all the companies, all the B2B companies in the world. We made the list I think there's only about 392 companies that made the list. I'm not that. So we are a technology recruiting and consulting firm.
So we we hire all the technology executives, for, like, companies like Uber Tinder, Hulu OpenTable, Sony PlayStation, all the big tech companies use this to hire, tech folks for the from senior software engineer to AI to data science to DevOps for senior level individual computers up to, CTO, CIOs, VPs of engineering. Wow. That's Wolfe part of the business. 2nd part of business is we have our own engineers so we can augment your existing staff with our software developers.
And the 3rd upcoming business that we're involved And through a partner company is we actually can do the software development ourselves. So that's pretty exciting as well for, you know, so we'll build out applications for your business with our own staff. You, you know, you don't even have to be involved. I love it. I love it. Yeah. Anything tech related or or personnel. Related, it sounds like. It's it's everything. Yes. Everything tech hiring and and even some of the software development.
Yes. Yeah. Love it. Okay. So let's I mean, we're gonna get into your story here, but tell us, like, the deep seated purpose or why. Maybe not necessarily for this business. But for you, like, maybe maybe it is attached to this business, but but why why are you on this world? Like, what what's what could you excited about life? It's a great question, man. So I think for me, the the the business is just happens to be a business I enjoy doing, and I got into, but really my why is is is my family.
Right? We all have a reason why we wanna succeed. For me, it's to to provide a great life for my kids, for my wife, and eventually, pass the legacy down. I do something really, really. The better that I do, the more I can give out, I can give to the Wolfe. Right? So I invest in tech startups, deep tech start and startups.
So that's giving back an advisor to a lot of different companies, giving back, teaching them how to grow their businesses, And more importantly, I give to certain things that I believe in, whether it's kid charities or any organization that that kind of uplifts the community. So I'm I'm big on that. Other than that, man, I always just wanted to succeed. You know, I always wanted to do well in business, and that was my passion. Right?
I wanted to win And once you get past, let's say, high school, there's no there's no competing in sports. So how do you compete? You compete in the business Wolfe. You know? And I got into the business because it was Chaz you know, there's no cap you could do as well as, as you want to, you know, as an individual or as a company. So I decided to get into industry, and it beautifully ties into to to my why. So that's that's kinda where it's at. Yeah. I I appreciate the the dynamics there.
Of the why. Because you're right. I think that, you know, any entrepreneur that has a family is is gonna be mindful of being the provider and protector, especially if we're talking to, you know, to the man, but that that that winning spirit oftentimes goes even deeper because we can win as a dad, we can win in our marriage. But winning oftentimes is like Chaz really, like, what beats the actual heart, you know, inside of us Where where does that come from for you?
Like, you said maybe sports, but, like, like, why? And I just don't know. It's it's it's always been embedded in me. I've always been highly competitive. So if I if I wanna if I'm competing, I wanna win. So, I mean, And if I'm not good at something, it drives me Chaz. So I do it until I can win. Yeah. I remember in college, I was playing air hockey, and I kept losing to this one guy. And he just said, listen, man. I mean, he was he was an absolute butt head, but, yeah, she taught me something.
He was like, look, man. You are good. So many things. You don't have to be good at air hockey too. I was like, first of all, I I do. I will be. Dan, that's that's pretty good, and I will beat you. So I mean, whether it was foosball or chess or basketball, whether I'm playing a world champion or I'm playing my, you know, my little, you know, cousin or something, I still wanna win. Yeah. Yeah. Just something in me, you know.
And I I I didn't realize how rare it was until I saw people being very casual and genuinely not caring about winning. Yeah. I was like, you know, you don't care. It's something in us. You know? And I grew up with 2 older brothers. You know, grew up in certain tough neighborhoods and and you had to compete for respect and you had to compete for affection. You had to compete for everything. You know? So that's that's that's how it, I guess, that's how it all came about. That's how it rolls.
I got an interesting question for you. Maybe you've heard something like this, but Do you think that you love to win, or do you think you hate to lose? Oh, that's an easy one for me. In fact, wanna know how much we were having coming? That's one of my interview questions, man. Really? Yes. I hate to freak out. I hate to lose, man. It drives me crazy.
There's no right and wrong, obviously, in this in this question, I ask it the same way of my interviewees, I guess, but for me, everybody wants to win. I don't think anyone says, you know, I don't love to win. It's just I think it irritates the hell out of me when I lose. It drives me crazy. I can't sleep. Constantly running tape. Now now I've passed in on to my boy who plays basketball and he sees how much I hate watching him lose. Right.
How much he hates losing, but, you know, but, yeah, it drives me nuts, man. I I hate absolutely hate losing. And so I try to surround myself with people that have similar similar kind of passion for winning and hate for losing, whether it's a business partner or my wife or or my, you know, my top employees, they have to hate losing. Because if they're okay with it, you know, and and they could they can put a ribbon on it and learning opportunity and all that stuff.
Sure. Sure. Sure. But if it doesn't if it doesn't make your skin itch when you lose, something's wrong with you. Yeah. Yeah. I I was gonna say I'm glad you kinda, position that to that nice little bow that you can put on losing or failures because we're gonna get to 1 of yours here in a minute. But you're right. There there is there's no raw right or wrong answer in that. There there are different people, and I think that intrinsically, we're those people are just motivated differently.
And because I'll I'll throw you through a little loop here since we're we're not on your show, but this might this might be opposite of what you've thought. I am a love to win person. Oh. Yeah. And I'll tell you why because because I recognize the maturity that it takes to be able to take the loss and turn it to a future win. In most of my experience, the person that hates to lose the way that you've described it is a little different.
And so I I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you a question here in a second. Typically, the person that hates to lose with, like, all that they have is in step 1, which is the I love I I hate to lose, and they're a bad loser. Like, just terrible attitude and that maybe you or I once before. But at some point, you don't love to lose You still hate it. And like you said, it makes your, like, ugh. No. Like, just get it away.
But the desire to win or to be champion, a repeatedly win win win win win win win win win. I become addicted to winning. I'm more addicted to winning than I'm focused on not losing, which actually heard you say the same thing. Same thing. I I feel the same way. Yeah. But we have the same definition. You know what I mean? Yes. Yes. Yes. For me, you know what it is? It's like, I almost maybe update it, but I almost expect to win. Right?
So and sometimes maybe I don't slow down to celebrate my wins like I use. Oh, sure. Yeah. Maybe it's like, yeah. It's expected. I should have won. Of course not morning. Of course. You know? Yeah. Maybe maybe I need to spend more time focused the winning, but, man, I just I hate to lose. It drives me freaking crazy, you know, and and I'm still damn competitive, but I've never been a sore loser. I'll never walk off the court, not shake hands. I'll never be petty.
I'll never want you to lose so I can win. That's interesting. Wanna be. Right? Yeah. Yeah. We're we're talking about something that's gonna be a little bit better. Yes. Yes. I I think that you have given a really, really great balance here even though I hate that word too, but you've given a really, really good perspective. Let's say it like that of of what it means to win. It doesn't mean that just because, you know, we have an expectation of winning, because that's what champions have.
Like, Michael Jordan, step on court, and expect to not win. Well, of course, F. Yeah. He expected to win. But just like you and I, he spends time on making sure that he doesn't repeat the same mistakes because it, it just kills him, you know, or any other great player that you could think Okay. So let's just parlay this right into your history here because you're clearly a competitor, like you said, this beat's really, really deep. You and I are both similar in this way.
So how do they even come to be the company? Like, give us the backdrop of what you're doing before, and then how you started the company. So just like all of us, man, we go to college. I studied a business, in economics at Csun, which is a local LA university decent school.
And then I got out, and I was I was doing some sports programs at LAUSD after school sports programs, middle school, elementary high school, Then I became kind of at the program manager, but the traveling program manager Chaz 17 schools. Best job I've ever had, by the way. Unfortunately, you get a college degree and a year expected. I wanted to get into business, and I found I found LAUSD LAUSD programs to be not competitive. And I found it not to be performance driven, and I love those guys.
I mean, I'm still friends with, like I said, best job I've ever had, but I couldn't compete to be the best because that's not what they were interested in necessarily. Right? They Chaz to be more of a kind of, hey, like, slow down. It takes 20 years to get to that next level. You've made it. Just just just be good. And I was like, that's not what I'm about. Right? So I went into business. I went into an organization called Kaplan. Learned. Crew got promoted several times. I was doing great.
Company stopped growing. I decided I need to leave. Right? I joined a company called The Mitchell Group. It was a founder, Jeff Mitchell, who happens to be my partner now. His company was kind of on the ropes, highly successful company that hadn't done well in the 2003 recession, 2002 to 2005 recession. I mean, he was still doing okay, but it had become more of a lifestyle business. He asked one of my directors who he knew, who's the best person she knew to help rebuild his business.
So I came in and, first time I met him, I said, listen, I have I have 33 other offers. I'm ready to go. If I'm gonna do this, I need to know that you're gonna get out of the way to to allow me to rebuild your business I mean, who says that to a highly successful guy who was twenty two years older than me, are you gonna get out of the way in your own business that I know nothing about so I can come in and it. Yeah. Young cocky and beat us. Right? So he says, yeah.
That's exactly what I'm looking for. So I come in highly motivated 2007's going well. I start drawing in my director I'm starting to bring in my former considering bringing my former Kaplan directors, and they're like, hey. You say the word and I'm in because they loved working for, you know, with me for me. And then the 2008 recession happened. For 2 years, I struggled like hell. Now my wife's pregnant with my my daughter. Wow. And I'm thinking great. So I was gonna go get my MBA.
My wife says, oh, we're pregnant. You know, we're pregnant, and I'm making half the money I was at Caplan. Right? Rough time. So, you know, for me, there was a decision to be made. Do I run back to the industry I was part of? Or do I just burn the burn the boats and keep going? You know, it's struggle like hell. And I decided to burn the boats, told myself there's a reason you left that industry. There's a reason you it did this. So, you know, I had full support from my wife.
We had a kind of a I wouldn't say chill lifestyle, but we had kept it very reasonable, very conservative. And, basically, the next 2 years, I worked my ass off just just to survive. I mean, we had a saying, survive to thrive. Right? Yeah. So survive then thrive are saying just because we we embrace this struggle. We knew it was gonna be, you know, be for the next 18 months or so. It's exactly what we did. Got some great clients along the way.
And 2000 end end of 2009, early 2010, we started growing, learning, started making some income. Finally feeling good about the business. Yeah. I became a a a partner in that business. I became an owner. We grew that business in 2000. I think 14 or 15. It was, time for me to do my own thing. It was time for me to start my own company. Right? And, again, lack of ego, which is what makes my business partner so great. He says he says, hey. You need more equity in the Metro?
We said, no. No. No. This is your baby. I want my own baby. He says, let's go build it together. It'll be your baby. I'll come along. Right? Yeah. I mean, this is this is the kind of character he is. So I was like, tell you, let's go. I mean, why not? Right? I mean, this is the guy that brought me into the business. Yep. He knows a ton. He's been a great partner. Lots of trust. Why not? Yeah. It just I wanted to build some scalable national potentially global.
I wanted it to be more tech tech powered, rather than kind of what I call a regional, boutique. I wanted to build something much bigger and stronger. And that's exactly what we did. In 2015, we grew it from 0 to now, you know, in 5000 fastest growing companies 2 years in real. We'll see where we land this year. I mean, naturally, we're getting our asses kicked a little bit this year, which is expected. I don't know if we'll quite make the list next year, but we'll see. You know?
But lots of struggles, man. Very, very challenging few years. You know, we've been through 2 recessions, including COVID. Right. Including 2009. Now this 3 recessions in in one business lifetime. Cycle. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot there. We'll try to unpack some of it for the listeners. What do you think You know, there's a lot of people who would say never ever ever do a partnership.
And your first experience with 1, you got brought into it, but then obviously, you've duplicated into another business same person. What do you think is, like, the one thing? You kind of already mentioned maybe trust. Is that it, or is it something different where it's, like, I we stand on this thing or no thing? Trust is a big one, man. Trust is a big one. I mean, over the years, We've had struggles together. I'm sure he's been frustrated with me.
I've been hella frustrated with him over the years, but the one thing I could always hang my hat on was trust. Was the fact that we can communicate. I mean, it's definitely more than one thing. You know, it's the trust. The trust factor's huge. We always know we're gonna take care of each other. You know, even even if it ever comes to a, hey. You gotta exit the business or whatever. It's always gonna be done with dignity. It's gonna be done with class.
Gonna be done in a way where we both feel great. You know, he's older one day he's gonna wanna retire. I'm gonna, you know, obviously treat him like like like gold, like a whole second brother. You know? So the trust is number one for me. If I don't trust you, then there's nothing nothing to even talk about. Right. Doesn't mean that there's no frustrations along the way. Yeah. And I think, man, just like having the same how do I say this?
Integrity, I think, is incredibly important and sense of humor. Sense of humor Chaz gotten us through 3 recessions together, right, because, again, we could be miserable. You know? But if we have trust, there's integrity, and we do business the same way as what I mean by integrity is we both believe in making money the right way. We both believe never ever screwing anybody over, including vendors. Right?
Everybody gets treated with respect and especially employees and clients, then then you then you're good. You agree on one core principle. Yeah. And everything else Chaz be different. Like, my partner and I couldn't be more different. I mean, like, if you if you literally had a a opposite mirror effect, it would be us that everything we even say Our style, our approach to everything is complete opposite.
But the key difference is it's always always with integrity, always done for the greater good, it just happens to be we have different styles and mindsets. You know? So that's number 2 for me and number 3. I think I said it was since a humor met. I don't wanna be miserable. I don't wanna I don't wanna kill myself to make money. I don't wanna screw people to make money. I wanna do it right. So we both believe in that it's cake, then it's about what approach we take versus, you know, alright.
You do it your way. I'll do it by the way. No. No. No. We have believe in the core principles. Everything else is is just stylistic. You know? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I love the the number 3. I mean, I think all three are fantastic, but number 3, particularly, even just as we got on, you know, here before we hit the record button, it was instant. You know, we were having a good time and being humorous and I think when you have, one of our core values is Levity.
And I genuinely believe, not just for us as gathering the Kings podcast, mastermind group, you know, family mastermind, whatever, Kings bring Levity, like, in the recession, in a in a business meeting at the house with the family, like, as the king, it's my job to not only bring, you know, the hammer and the forward thinking and the vision and the press on, and we don't lose, like, all the, like, the tough guy stuff. But it also is my responsibility.
What you're saying is to bring the humor in life and to to recognize the humor in life because there's there's a levity is this like it's joy in the midst of. Right? And that's what I heard you say. Your partner and you know through communication, you kinda mentioned that through the idea of trust, through the the the process of doing the business the same way and having integrity to that and holding to it. You know that kind of the rest is, like, let's just have a good time because Exactly.
We kinda got the big rocks, like, in place. And if we don't have a good time doing it, why are we doing it? Who cares? Who cares? I mean, even even just think about it. Why do we even get into these these difficult businesses. So we can what? So we can have a great lifestyle so that but why, though, so that we can give a good lifestyle? But for what reason, to have fun. Yeah. So why would I wait 10, 20, 30 years to have an exit so I can have fun when I can have fun every single day?
Yeah. I mean, in the worst, you know, months where we've lost money, we're laughing and smiling. And even one of my leaders here laughed, she's, man, having a lot of fun considering we're we're losing money. I said, it doesn't matter. Right? Every day, we've gotta have fun because tomorrow tomorrow we could dive in, and I wanna go back. I wanna I wanna die with a smile, not not, you know, be miserable. So it's huge for me. The sense of humor. Man, we need it.
One of us is always keeping the other one Right? You gotta make sure that, you know, if I'm down, you gotta find a way to give me the other side. Hey, man. It could be worse. Hey. We should be happy. This is what's happening, so on and so forth. You know? Yeah. We could we could go down the list of stats of, you know, entrepreneurs that deal with stress or anxiety or, you know, depression or even suicide, you know, to take it all the way down Chaz that kind of dark path.
The the other end of it is this higher, you know, faculty that we have as humans. Like, it we're the highest part of creation. Have this ability to be able to kind of come outside of ourselves or outside of our situation and go, you know what? I know we're losing right now or we're losing money. It doesn't bother me though because I can see the bigger picture, or I can still have joy. I can choose joy.
Happiness is the is the is like the emotional response to something, you know, losing or or winning in that moment. Happiness or maybe sadness would be like the emotional response, but Joy is something that we choose. Right? Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let's let's fast forward here. You start the company. You've got this great partner who's got a great experience, but it's your baby. Okay. Fine. Let's fast forward a little bit here.
Your 1st couple of years in, and you do this one thing that kinda knocks down all the other dominoes. I know you did a bunch, but what was that one good decision that you made that you would share with the listeners Chaz if they could go repeat it, would just be lights out. Oh, man. We took risks. We took risks for the first time. You know, Mitchell Group was a little more risk averse.
Because that was just Baby, like I said, right, he's a more risk averse guy for us was well, there was a couple things. One was a very, very important person. We we asked to move from Arizona to LA. She was someone that had been with the Mitchell group for years, and we said, hey. We need you to come out and work for our cloud. We need you to be in the office because we need some maturity in the office. We need someone that that we can trust with our books.
She was accounting, finance, admin, that kind of stuff. So that was one very important decision and 2 was taking risks We opened a brand new office because we looked at it as, no. No. No. No. This is like, we have to do this right. Beautiful office. We we gutted it, made it really pretty. We We we stepped on it a little bit. We spent money like we've never spent in a good way. Right? We stopped making small decisions. We we hired better people. We took a lot of risks. Right?
We kept people when they were struggling. That was a risk. Yeah. Right? So we took we took more risk than we would before. We would hire people even though we weren't a 100% sure, let's say, because I don't know. I don't know. We went for it. You know? I guess, I think I think was the risk umbrella. And being decisive, you know, we were decisive. We were decisive. We were assigning a 5 year release on Chaz. That that property, even though it was risky.
We don't know what's gonna happen in 5, you know, 3 years. Personal guarantees and all. We we took a risk moving someone out you know, from from a different state. The umbrella of of higher clubs beginnings was risk. Hey, Kings and Queens. Chaz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day.
And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too. So we would love if you would like, comment share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things on social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify, we would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible.
Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this. Let's help each other. Let's help each other grow. Yeah. First off, you you mentioned just in that one answer, like, 3 principles from thinking grow rich. You know, it's like, just this this is all working. Whether you realize it or not as a successful person, this is this is what we do. Decision making obviously risk, you know, taking.
So the person listening right now who maybe they're new in business or maybe they've been in business for decades. And risk is like, oh, I don't know. They they're thinking right now, like, boom. I should've done that. I should've done that. It was a risk. I I knew I I knew I should've taken it, and they didn't. What kind of encouragement or maybe even tough love would you give that person? Who's listening to you. I mean, you really gotta you gotta think about what you wanna accomplish. Right?
If you're okay with a lifestyle business, then keep doing what you're doing. There is no step on it. Go crazy. You gotta take risks based on your own. Kind of versions, right, risk conversions, and your lifestyle and your timing and all that stuff. But I would say if you really wanna scale your business You have to take a risk, man. You know? And just think about it from this standpoint. What if you failed miserably? Let's just say you took the risk and you failed miserably.
Could you start over and be okay? If the answer is yes, then do it. If the answer is you're gonna be on the streets, maybe think about it a little deeper. You know what I mean? And and if you're gonna take risks, do it with people that will we'll take the risk with you, but but we'll constantly give you the other side. Right? Give you a balance, meaning for every crazy risky shit that I did. You know, my partner was the counterbalance of, like, hey.
But we gotta make sure we have enough cash in the bank for these 6 months in case and so on and so forth. So if you're 2 crazy risky people going out of business together and you're gonna step on it, It's a little risky because you can grow. You can grow broke, right, as they say. Because small things like cash flows run out of money. But if it's 2 risk averse people in a business together, forget about growing. Let's just just call it what it is. Right?
Like, let's be honest with ourselves and say, we're interested in a lifestyle business. We wanna be comfortable. We we wanna, you know, keep up our lifestyle and and that's totally okay and own that. Don't need, you know, need a highly. Some of the some of the wealthiest people I know, most successful people I know, they just they didn't take as many risks. They just did it over a 30 year period of time. That's okay. Yeah. So do you is my advice.
Yeah. I appreciate that, permission, really, because you're right. They shouldn't want the bigger business because you or anyone else has it. They should want what they want and then follow accordingly to what do they want. You you said something interesting there, you know, said that, you know, if if the decision or the risk maybe puts you on the street that maybe think about a little bit more, for you, know you can't speak to anybody else, but for a fetus.
If that decision genuinely could possibly, whatever decision that we're referring to, put you on the street, I mean, I get the picture that you still take that because you know that even you on the street has figured out how not to do that thing ever again and has firm confidence that he can just rebuild it back up again. Am am I wrong on assessing that about you? Which Avidas? Avidas with the wife and kids or Avidas are single? Interesting. You answer.
That's that's if there's a there's a there's a dynamic here that you're saying. So talk about that. Big difference. Big difference. So me alone, I do it because I know I'll be alright. Right. Me with a family. Now it's a it's a higher level of responsibility. It's no longer about about me. Right? Yeah. We talked about a balance. Balance in my business is my business part is more risk averse.
And my and my life is my wife who is more risk averse and really not necessarily interested in that $3000 purse or the, you know, the Yeah. The the crazy $50,000 trip. She doesn't care about those things. She's a Wolfe body. She she likes. She likes her simple life. She likes calm life. And for her that constant reminding me, we don't really need those things and me stepping on it and then she's saying, okay. And then once in a while, I go, you know what? You're right.
Chaz balance is very important. So I don't think I would make do or die decisions at this point in my life Sure. With the the level of responsibilities path. Right? So it's no longer about me at a certain point. It's about about everything else. And plus, I I put myself in a situation where I have a good life. I'm very blessed.
So to me, it wouldn't be worth the risk would not be worth the reward, to be honest with you, because There's not anything more Chaz I'm looking for that's gonna make me happier. All I'm gonna do now is is just make a bigger impact, which is extremely important to me. But not not enough where it's worth the family on the streets. Yeah. Yeah. The cost of of what that could possibly be. I think you did a great job breaking that down because there are there are lots of risky entrepreneurs.
I mean, that's what it that's the definition is taking higher risks than Yeah. Than the average person. But I think that at some point, again, kinda come back into word that we were in a few minutes ago is it's maturity. It's a perspective Chaz a king going, okay. Well, there's a lot of people around me. My decisions impact more than just me. Even though I think both you and I probably share a commonality where we're willing to probably take some pretty gritty, you know, decisions.
There are other people. And and now at this point, not just, you know, wife kids and and immediate family, but now, you know, companies of people. And and those things are those things have to be weighed into the decision. Right? Exactly. Exactly. We forget about all the responsibility we have over folks that work for us as well. Right? They don't wanna risk it all. They don't want you to risk you know, either.
So, you know, it's funny because a friend of me, a friend of mine asked the same question, why don't you step on it a little more? Like, to 10 exit. And I was like, what are you talking about? I thought I was. And he was like, no, man. You could go. And I I looked at him. I was like, okay. This is a highly risky person. This person would genuinely risk it all, but I also see his lifestyle. He was single. Right? And you can't compare it to my life.
He was younger, and he had just there was just different aspects of his life that would allow him to step on it at the level that I I wouldn't be willing to. So, yeah, I think it's all just relative. Right? I look risky to someone, and then I look like super risk averse to someone else. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think, you know, it's kind of a a interesting perspective that you just gave there. You talking to this younger gentleman, you know, single and willing to take risks?
What do you think your partner thought of you years ago when you got pulled up to kinda recharge his business? I mean, he I'm sure he appreciated the the growth mindset because I kept him going and kept get got him to think bigger than just like, survive along, make a little bit of profit. I think he he he he bought in pretty early on to the to that that vision almost. And I think he just went in for the ride. You know, I think he was like, let's go.
You know, he he I think it's exactly what he needed. Right? He needed a a a pick in the ass to, like, Look, we can do better than just have a lifestyle business here. Let's let's kill it. Let's grow. You know, when I told him years ago, I'm gonna we're gonna make that in 5000 list. He was like, oh, yeah. I don't think he believed. Right. Sure. You know, I don't think he yeah. Sure. Sounds good, bud. You know, I mean, some of the some of the growth percentages Chaz these companies are hilarious.
Right? Like, you'll see, 12,000% growth, and we were growing, like, 3% a year. Right. It's like you you're not believing that, but I set the vision in my head and then I did it. You know, and and it it was nuts. It was nuts and then to do it again. It was it was even Chaz. And I think the growth was, like, 270 center. Something like that. Yeah. It was damn near 3 x. So, yeah. It's a big deal. It's a lot of it's a lot of pride in that. You do it once, then you expect it. You know? Right. Right.
Yeah. You said you said you're a winner, that you kinda expect to win. What do you think was the biggest catalyst for that? Like, obviously, you had the vision you said from the beginning. We're gonna go here Whether he believed it or not, you did. But then there was, like, actual work that you had to do, right, to get that type of growth. Maybe give us just a little snapshot of what that what that took to get on that list. Well, you you you said the word you said the word work.
Like, that's exactly what it took. It took a ton of work and they took a ton of sacrifice. And that's the big one that I still don't think people understand. Like, they they look at the word sacrifice as just, so It's a word. It's like, no, man. It's an action. It's a it's everything. It's you waking up and you you sacrificing comfort all the freaking time. Right.
I mean, to a point, I mean, if I could be honest, frankly, some of the risk I took, not the risk, but, like, the sacrifices I made did put a small strain on my life. I didn't even realize it. Right? My wife and I didn't connect as much because I was just, you know, I'd go to work. I'd leave at 7, go to the gym. You know, go work all day and come home at 7, 7:30. And to me, Chaz was like, man, I'm only working really 10 hours a day. That's nothing. I was proud of myself.
I'm always there on weekends. Saturday, Sunday at every kid's event. So I'm there. What I realized is this is someone I forgot my wife. Right? And I was just trucking along. So Yeah. It's sacrifice. Like, people Chaz word is not some bullshit word that people say, to but it's like, it's real sacrifice. And I ask people, do you really wanna make that sacrifice? And then they say, yes. But then I have to describe what that sacrifice looks like. Sacrifice comfort. Sacrifice.
Like, we have work from home days, but I don't work from home. Right? I have a beautiful home. It's it's like, sometimes it feels like I'm on vacation at home, but I I sacrificed that to come in just to be available for my team. You know, I sacrificed missing Halloween this right, because I'm gonna be flying out for a for an event. I sacrificed these things I've I've sacrificed a long way.
But, hopefully, the sacrifice have led to great success, which then makes makes up for it 10 x, right, things that that that I couldn't provide had I been comfortable? So you really gotta sacrifice a lot of the comfort of what people want you to be which is, hey. I want you to be around more. You gotta decide. Is that more important than than succeeding? It's not about money. Sometimes it's just about winning and success and what drives you. This drives me. Right?
So I can pretend that that's I'm gonna do it, but I don't believe it. You know? Yeah. I think that there there's also a moment. I can't speak for your marriage, but I can speak for mine, where, I mean, my wife knew that I was a winner. I was a little bit crazy, but probably very similar to what yours knew at the beginning. Yes. But when you have someone who consistently is running hard, and I'm talking about Yeah.
At a speed and at a consistency and at a sacrifice level, that most other people just and I already know most people aren't, because I can look around. There's not anybody else. Until I find people like you on the show or other people in my mastermind group, there are not very many of us where you can look back and you go, oh, you've been running like this for a long time. You have been disciplined. You've been sacrificing. You have been, you've been keeping a good pace, like, for a while.
There eventually came a point where my wife was like, oh, okay. This is not a fad. You're fueled by this. Correct. And, and then actually, she got on board, not necessarily with the businesses, but with, like Yes. Okay. In order for me as your wife to be able to be the best wife that I can be, that the best part of this marriage is I need to be able to give you space to do this thing. And also encourage you.
And then, of course, what that did, you know, it it was a both and me recognizing her and, like you said, paying a little closer attention and and not missing over some of those things. But it's like, then we started feeling each other and recognizing that, like, I, yeah, I am Chaz, and I'm okay with that. And if you're okay with that, it makes it even better. Yep. Yeah. Absolutely, man.
And and and, you know, it's sacrifice on both sides because one thing that my wife likes to remind me of all the time is she was part of the the growth. Right? And and she's right because she gave up her career as a teacher to watch the kids, right, and again, to outsiders that looks like a luxury And and it is. Right? Her her dream was to to be around and raise our kids. Yeah. But, again, that comes out a second with you. So I can't Exactly. And I can't be a 9 to 5. Right?
I can't be a 9 to 5 or and then you you you're doing that. So she sacrificed her career so that we can succeed in a big way kind of at a higher scale. And and you're absolutely right. It's not about the money. Like, sometimes the our our arguments over the years have been We we have enough. It's like, it's not about the money you're not understanding as we do have enough. We're very blessed. It's it's we gotta keep running. Yeah. Keep running. Right?
It's that paranoia but it's it's really if you think about it, it's just the passion for winning and growth and impact and and energizes people like us. And anyone that's not like that you if they don't understand you, there's gonna be you're gonna have to change who you are as a human be. And if you have to change who you are, you're gonna be less happy. And you just get you're you're not gonna be complete. So if I'm not complete, I can't help you be complete. You know what I mean?
Yeah. That that that completeness or having fulfillment for kings is, like what you're saying, winning in all areas. And and I think that you're kinda tapping on a good point here is, you know, making sure Chaz, obviously, your your number one mastermind is you and your Wolfe. Chaz that's gotta be in harmony. You gotta be operating on the same frequency.
But then, obviously, to put other people in your life, even like this, whether they're listening to us or just you and me right now, like, we're gonna both walk away from this conversation going. Let's go. Yes. Yes. How can you not? When when you're talking to somebody at the same frequency, who's talking running hard all the time, not because, again, for the next dollar, but because this is what we do for winners. Let's digress here a little bit. We're on the same family topic here.
I wanna keep focus there, but my question in and around the same, this obsession. You gave us a couple of practicals here, but I wanna dig a little bit more into, what you've done over the years, especially as as you've become probably a little bit more aware, but we talk about being obsessed of all these areas. Right? So family, business, faith, fitness, lifestyle, like, you can have it all. That's my that's my belief. I I believe that because I believe I have it all. I don't I don't have it.
I'm not perfect in all areas. But I'm winning in all areas of life. Right? And I'm tracking those things. It sounds like you are as well. Specifically around the family, marriage, and business at the same time, I don't believe in balance, but you've talked about how you've been able to kinda go hard or go obsessed in all of these areas. Give us some practicals on how you obsess over wifey or family or any other areas that are important to you Wolfe you're obsessed with the business.
Very challenging, man. I think you have to have you have to be there for the most important things. Right? And you have to say yes to things that are important. And you have to communicate. You have to you have to let people know, hey. I wanna be part of everything that's important. But there will be things that I miss, but I'm gonna really pick and choose. Right? Right. If it's a school event, you better bet. I'm there. If it's a sporting event, you better bet on there. Right?
So if I set the expectations, everything important, I'll be there. And everything not as important, I'll be there Chaz long as I can. Long as it doesn't get in the way of our success as Chaz as a family. But they have to know that they're number 1, I guess. And that's tough. That's challenging because it's not always obvious. Because sometimes you choose work, not because it's more important is because it needs your attention. Don't have the answer, man. I wish I did.
You know, I think for me is I'm I'm still learning at this age. I'm still learning that that, man, it, you know, people do need your attention. And and I would say is it's okay to be busy all the time, but when you're with them, try to just focus on them. Yeah. If I look back, what I've done better the last 3 months is I don't think I'll necessarily spend more time with them less time at work. If I could really count that, it's just when I'm with them, I'm really focused on that.
That's really the only thing that I've changed. I wouldn't say it's enough, but it's enough to move things in the right direction, I think. You know? Well, a winner like you is never gonna just satisfied with the way that they currently are. So even though you have maybe a sense of winning with this new Yeah. Strategy, that doesn't mean that you're done becoming the best dad ever. Right? Like No. That's a mountain that you're, you're, you're heading up the mountain.
Yeah. I think that you're spot on with the focus, especially since you're, you're talking about attention. We have attention units. Like, I don't know how many units that you have or however many I have, but there's all finite amount. And where I put those and whether I put half units. Like, if I got half with you and half with someone else at the same time, like, that that can sometimes eliminate the whole unit put together. Right? Yeah. Yeah. You're talking.
Ourselves too thin sometimes is is the opposite of of the right strategy, right, because we wanna be all things to all people. You know, you wanna you wanna be available to your friends. You wanna be of the family. You wanna be available for your parents. You wanna be available for, you you know, this person, that person, that, and you start just spreading so thin.
That all they're getting is 10% and and you're satisfied because you feel like you're there for everyone, but the the truth is you're you're giving up so much. It's better that you start saying no to things and just focusing on the 1 or 2 things you are gonna focus on at that period of time. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that there's a there's a, I don't know, the exact switch over, but it's it's yes to everything just to kinda get some things moving.
And then and then you have to have some awareness to where it's like, okay. Now I have to actually say no to most things. So that way, the most important things I can stay focused on. And you can take that same philosophy inside your business. I'm sure that you've got this history now where you look back and you're like, in the last couple years, you've probably been way more focused on what moves the needle than you were at the very beginning.
At the very beginning, it was just like, I'll take a meeting with anybody. Right? Yeah. Yeah. No. For sure. For sure. K. Got one last question here for you. Adidas, I wanna know if you had the opportunity to kinda reach back into time and, meet the younger version of you. Tap him on the shoulder and you just whisper something in his ear. What do you tell him? It's a really, really powerful question. This is why I should have read some of these questions. 2 things.
I'll I'll make one personal one business. I would say in 2009, I should have pushed harder to grow because what happened was as the as the recession was was going away in 2009 towards the last quarter, I knew things were headed in the red direction, but I was still very young in the business and I didn't push hard enough to grow faster. Yeah. Catch away. And so that was a mistake, and we grew very mom and pop. Right?
You took a little bit of money, hired one person, all hired another, really slow kind of growth, but that was a great lesson because in 2000 20, I think it was. We grew through we took a major risk in in 2020 and the the the the the heart of COVID, and it was the best decision we made because, again, as people shrunk, I grew and that helped us, you know, really nice little growth spur And then this this year, same thing, we're we're growing through a recession, not necessarily with body count.
Right? We just like most businesses, we've had to shrink a little bit. But I would say Chaz. That's a good lesson. On the opposite side, I would say another lesson is slow down, which is weird. Right? Because what ended up happening in the last couple of years is I got obsessed with growth and and spread myself in too many Right? Like, let's diversify. Let's do this. Let's do this. Let's hire these people even though they weren't great. Let's try this. Let's try that. And we didn't focus.
We didn't really obsess over what was the most important, to be honest with you. This year, we're doing it again because, again, we're kinda we're we're having to be really smart to to to to grow. And then from a life perspective is like like slowed down a little bit and make sure you get the proper attention, to the family and make sure you make the right decisions and make sure that you're focused on on on the right things. Right? Don't let don't let things distract you.
Be patient, listen, be around more, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good answer, especially when it's two sided. Give yourself the opposite advice at the same time because it's real. It is real. It is real. I felt it. I feel I feel it in my bones. Yeah. Yeah. I I hope that the listener takes that away because it's not it's not lip service to be you know, 2 things at once. It's, hey, pay closer attention, but also it's okay to press hard.
In fact, if you had been probably a little bit more intentional, like you're saying, slowed down and made intentional moves, you probably could have grown in those circumstances where you had had had pressed. Hindsight's always 2020. Right? Oh, the math. Avitas, tell us how, the listener can find you.
Number 1, if they're an entrepreneur, they wanna get to know you better, just connect, or if they need to use your service and hire some software engineers or even potentially how are you guys to build an app for them? How can they find you? Absolutely, brother. So I'm very easy to find on LinkedIn. I'm the only Venus on Toplian in the world. I believe except my nephew, but he's not on LinkedIn. So find me on LinkedIn. I'm easy to find find higher cloud on LinkedIn, easy to find.
I have 70,000 plus followers. So So we're out there. And just contact us. You know, Avidasetharicloud.com is an easy way to just reach out to me and say hello. If we can help, we'd love to. If we can't, we can't. I'm an investor. If you have a great startup, I'm happy to to potentially look look into investing in your startup. You can hire me as an adviser to your company. I can with that. And then and then and then you can check out my podcast.
It's it's it's learned a lot from your podcast, to be honest with you, man. So this is great, but it's the tech leaders playbook. Interview, MBA coaches, CTOs, AI experts, a lot of folks that have have also know know about leadership I think the focus there is leadership and growth and and management and how to how to scale your business. And so I think that's a good place to to get to know me and and and all that. Love it, man.
We'll put all that in the show notes as well for the listeners to be able to connect with you easily. It's been a fun time here. I don't say that lightly. I do a lot of shows and to be able to run with somebody that I I already I know that you're running hard just from our conversation here today. So thank you for showing what people are as possible. Being a king. The effort that someone's gonna be able to take to to get with you, it won't be in vain at all.
I can tell that you mean those words as far as reaching out and and being able to bless people. So Thank you for being here, brother. Blessings to you, your family, your business, all the things you touch here in this year and next, but we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. I appreciate you, brother. Thank you. Out of blessed. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself, doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself. What I have realized not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.
In fact, we are putting together 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the suit of excellence in those areas Chaz it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
So if that relates and and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you, sharp qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com. I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.