On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. I'd love for you just to drop if it's possible. Some of the big name clients that you work with because we're thinking Okay. Spring in the pin, but Chaz kinda mentioned space. What is something that you said defense? You said space. Like, Who are you working on on this? So NASA. So they're a huge customer of ours. We're so proud to be a partner in it that space race. This is the new space race.
So in the fifties and whatnot, you know, our parents had getting them to the moon. Well, this is the new space. We're getting back to the moon, and the Artemis using the SLS Orion are going to put the first woman on the moon. So we're a huge partner in Chaz. What's up everybody? Chaz Wolfe gathering the king's podcast. I'm your host. Back with you here today with another queen on the king stage, but don't let the queen Title fool you, this queen comes from an industry.
Hoof. It is gonna be super interesting. We have never had the likes of this type of product and company on this show. I am so excited. Heather Welcome to the King stage. Alright. That was very good. You're Yeah. Clearly Italian by association. I'm loving it. You and I both were Italian by association. Right? That's right. I mean, that makes us guilty and forevermore cost, rent. Yeah. You know? We're we're family. You know? I was gonna say, it's kind of like, big fat Greek wedding. Right?
It's, like Mhmm. It's kinda just like that. We're all big family. We we we like to make a lot of food, and we use Windex on everything. Right? Heather, please. Don't leave us and suspense any longer. Tell us what kind of business that you have. We, my company, my family's company, we're a 2nd generation family owned business based out of Orange, California. And in case you don't know where Orange California is, it's right next door to Disneyland, Southern California, Orange County.
So it's called thermovac Technology. So the name doesn't really help you, and that's totally fine. Also, if you don't understand what I'm saying as my explanation, also fine. There's no test. I promise you. We do heat treating, brazing, and chemical processing primarily for the aerospace and defense industry. However, we can do literally any industry that exists that has a material that has to be heat treated. Okay. So just a very small tidbit on that description because it's not very helpful.
So if you say pick up a pen right now k. This pen and it clicks. Inside that pin, there's a little spring. Yeah. That spring does not spring without us. Oh. Because it doesn't come out of the ground that way. It's just like a chunk of a rock and you're just like, oh, cool. Metal. It has to be refined, machine, etcetera. And then we come in right at that very end before that spring gets put in that pen, and we heat treat it thermally by making it real hot.
And it changes the very base microstructure of the material itself We're talking stuff you can't see with your naked eye, chemistries, nines. I don't know. I didn't do so well in high school sometimes, but it actually physically changes the way that metal reacts. So instead of being slung and straight, maybe now it's a spring and it goes boing and boing. Right. So we do that, but, like, for, you know, like, rocket engines and, you know, missiles and giant things going to space.
Yeah. Yeah. We're closer to a dry cleaner than we are a manufacturer. So manufacturers, you could say, okay, part a plus part b equals widget city. We have no tangible product. So dry cleaners don't manufacture pants, design pants. They don't do any of that. Right? They just take your dirty pants, and they give them back all shiny clean and pressed. Same with our business model. We take already machined. They've got 90% of their work into this product. They send it to us in our loving care.
And we put it in our delightful vacuum furnaces, and we heat it up, and we perform our magic and give it back to them, looking beautiful, shiny, and ready to put in their final application. I know that, you know, you've you've shared some, you know, bigger applications here, but I'd love for you just to drop if if app if it's possible, some of the big name clients that you work with because we're thinking, okay. Spring in the pin, but Chaz kinda mentioned space. Chaz is some of it?
You said defense. You said space. Like, who are you working on on this? So NASA. So they're a huge customer of ours work so proud to be a partner and at the space race. This is the new space race. So in the fifties and whatnot, you know, our parents had getting them to the moon. Well, this is the new space. We're getting back to the moon and the Artemis missions using the SLS Orion are going to put the first woman on the moon. So we're a huge partner in that.
We actually perform electrolytic nickel plating to some of the tubing that goes around the skirt of the engine. So if you think Apollo 13th, Chaz everybody's seen that almost everybody or picture of the last space movie you saw, one of the girls that fire stuff that's coming out the bottom inside of that big cylinder. There's a bunch of tubes that are lining it. We do this. Wow. Pretty sweet. Okay. So we've got a business that everybody knows about now.
Thank you for the clear explanation, but We're all just like, I'm sorry. What you do? What again? Which is incredible, so congratulations to all that. I wanna know, though, a specific little tidbit you said 2nd generation. And so give us a little bit of the story. I wanna know 2 parts. I wanna know how it started. Give us a couple minutes on that. And then why are you in the position that you are? And we can't stay default as a, like, a rule. No. We'll go there.
My father started the business in 1985. I was born in 1982, so you can kinda do the math. My entire life has been built in and alongside the building of my father's legacy in this business. So he got an idea because he's an entrepreneur from just, like, came out of the womb that way, and he spent a lot of time working in the industry as a young person. Astra's key has no college degree, self made man, high school education only.
He went and worked for a bunch of industry guys, big guys, Aerojet back when it was not Aerojet was something else. And some of the other manufacturing type of industries around this area. And then he started to slowly realize, I think I can do this better. I think I see it a niche that's not being filled. I see the need. And so he branched out on his own, and he started thermal back. And originally, it was a combination of heat treating and brazing and CNC machining.
He started it with a partner who is deceased now. My uncle Russ. He's not an uncle, but everybody's got an uncle Russ. Everybody got an uncle Russ. That's right. Yeah. I love my Uncle Press. He lost his Ferrari in San Diego one time. Yeah. Just like forgot where it was. Yeah. I mean. Is a bad day. It's normal. Yeah. Yeah. He found it eventually, but anyway, so it's these 2 larger than life personalities. Out in the world of developing this this business, and it just takes off.
And because the aerospace boom in the eighties was real. So they just latched into that market, sucked up a bunch of market share that really saw that need and it it filled it. So My dad ran this business all the way up through 2012 when he decided to retire for the first time. He got super bored. In 2015 2015, he came back. Chaz only lasted another few years, and he got really bored again. And he's like, he's out.
So we went through a strategic planning session, where I was introducing the entrepreneurial operating system, which we can talk about a little bit later. Coming from tractions, you know, Wickman. And I said, this would be really great because we're bumping up against a a revenue ceiling. Let's bring in this operating system. As a part of that process, We were plugging people in, you know, on the org chart, all the little buckets, and stuff. We got all the way through that process.
I had no I had no bucket. So I was like, Is this how it happens? Is this how it get rid of me? What? I set all this up, and now they're gonna exit me. I have a, like, single tier. I was a little concerned, honestly, because it was, like, the very last end of the day. And I was like, but then they got to the top seat, which in this in the entrepreneurial operating system. They call the integrator. Yeah. And each one of them just went around the room and said, Heather, Heather. Heather.
Heather. And that's how I got in this chair. So when I say default is not allowed, but it kinda was. I was the last one standing, and they were just like, no. I this is you. This is you. I I had no intention of ever occupying this position. I'm more of a lead from behind kind of person. I never expected or even wanted and or put into my my goals to be a CEO. Hosting. But that was 2019, and I'm still here. Wolfe They haven't kicked me out yet.
I think that that I mean, first off, thank you for sharing. Even just the vulnerability of, like, I never wanted this. Like, that that might come across to somebody as you know, like, that how could you be a good leader? And so I think that inside of that, it's like, no. You you were already doing it clearly because everybody named you. Right?
You were already doing the thing, and so it was more of just maybe, like, just a public recognition of what everybody else knew that maybe you just didn't know yet. Would you agree with that? I agree. And it was part of a realization that I had been actively acting in that way for a long time and not ever wanting to actually take the leap and own it. Yeah. And that was a a realization for me that was a little bit hard to understand because I felt like, oh my god. This I'm grateful.
All of these things, I had a lot of shame around it. Like, oh my god. I'm turning down an opportunity. I never looked at this. But then I turned it into like, no. People already were supporting me for so long and look where we're at now. This is amazing.
Yeah. Do you think Chaz, you know, because there's there's probably people listening here today that are 2nd generation, maybe even 3rd generation, or there's people like me that are 1st generation hoping that one day might children just like you carry the family mission. Right?
And so Mhmm. Do you think that there are for you that that maybe that's, you know, shame, guilt, limiting belief, whatever whatever you were bumping up against there in your own mind, clearly, it wasn't happening in real time because everybody else saw you as that. What what was that? Was that a my dad's a big personality, and I would never lead him. And so I'm just gonna stay behind, or is that just more of a personality thing? Like, what was the the meat of that feeling for you?
So we'll get just a little bit into the patriarchy. Our industry is male dominated. There was no way I ever even made the assumption I would lead our business because it would pass down the dominant male line. My father would pass it to my brother. My brother would pass it to his son, etcetera. Chaz was never an assumption that I made because of my societal structure. Why would I ever, as a woman, think that I would be in charge of a heat treating and brazing business?
And that in itself is a flood like life. Yeah. Right? So that's where it came from. Honestly, I assumed male lineage. Yeah. I did. And okay.
And so in that moment for you being this, you know, group anointed CEO, but but a Wolfe, clearly one that's articulate and knows her stuff, was that like the the public like, turn on switch for you, where you, like, started to, in your own place, be this person who you are today, or did it take some time to kinda warm up to this idea that You are leading this company. That's who what you never thought you'd do.
I had to spend some time reflecting even before 2000 team when I took over CEO, it actually started when I was 36. So that would have been 2018 or so when I got cancer. Then I really started thinking, what is my life legacy gonna be if I die tomorrow kind of stuff? So I was already warming up to having some sort of realistic, self actualized presence. Yeah. The just right before. It was 1 year before. So I almost feel like I manifested it through being confronted with in the face of death.
Yeah. Okay. Maybe a life worth living is kind of important, and maybe I should stop minimizing myself. Stop shrinking myself. Stop masking, which is the new, I think, kid's term that they're using the younger folks masking, but I super love it because, yes, mask on mask off love Chaz. So I feel like that mask started slip when I was dealing with that. And then 2019 came around, and I almost think it prepared me to be able to accept and understand the position and its responsibilities.
I think that's a huge point. I think if we're all honest with ourselves and have the ability to reflect, like you just said, we can all find those moments for ourselves where we were going through something, and whether we realized it in the moment or not that we were reflecting like you were, you know, fast forward, it then was preparing us for something else.
And so what would you say for the listener right now who who might feel a, that they're in the same place that you were in 2018, whether they had a life altering situation like cancer or an accident or they're just coming to an enlightenment of, wow, I have a purpose, and I should do something about it. And and or someone who's already gotten that realization, but they're still trying to, like, find their way, the the younger you in this regard, what would you say?
As soon as humanly possible after you've embraced who you Chaz, Chaz what will fulfill you. So if you're in that job that doesn't fulfill you and you have to put on a mask, as soon as possible, put all of your energy into finding a different path. And that's the scariest part for a lot of people because you might be 20 years into a career. You might have health insurance that's through this employer. You might have young children that you need to pay for school.
You might have a stay at home spouse that relies on your support. And also finding something that fulfills you is not some hippie dippy thing that nobody's allowed to have. That's an essential quality of being you and being happy in this world, which we only get one time at. So as soon as possible, embrace you find a path that fits you. And that square peg, round hole, stop doing that. That rub will rub away pieces of your soul.
And the sooner you can get rid of that and eliminate the friction, the happiness quotient goes up an amazing exponent. Like, I can't I can't even explain what eliminating that friction does for your life. Yeah. The person listening right now that's hearing you, what in whatever stage that they're in, what you just gave is applicable. It's applicable to me. It's applicable still to you.
And so, okay, we just heard you say press into the things that are you know, write for you and let go of the things that aren't right for you. And we can lean into maybe that's hiring people around you, maybe that's in your personal life, doing the things that bring you joy and fulfillment, what would be like a first step for that person who just heard you say Chaz?
Whatever level that they're at, maybe they've got a $1,000,000,000 company or maybe they're starting to kinda be able to press into that, like, step 1 after the demo of this podcast. What should they do? Oh, first step is recognize the cognitive dissonance. So the immediate feedback from a person who's high functioning and very motivated is gonna be like, I can't do that because of x, y, z, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d, d. Okay.
Recognize that. That's the first step. And then evaluate your locus of control because you can't control the world. You can control a finite amount of variables. Pick 1. Work on 1. Because when you're looking at something substantial as a life change, the very first step is scope it, understand and scope. If you're looking at it as a big picture, it's overwhelming. It's unmotivating. It's anxiety provoking. It's the reason people can't lose weight.
All of those things it's a it's the very first self limiting factor that's gonna come in is the scope is too large. So recognize that you're gonna think about Chaz. And then scope it down. Yeah. This is big. In essence, you can think big because everything you just said is the opposite of what a lot of people in the success world are saying You gotta think big and have big dreams and big goals, and I I ascribed all that. I'm sure you do as well.
But what what I heard you say was that can't be the next step. Correct. It's not logical. I mean, if you wanna be a game changing DJ, sure. And you're, you know, me, I work in a hatred and brazen industry. The path from heat treat braised to DJ is not singular. There's a multitude of millions of steps. I'm saying don't make that 1st step. So large that you immediately undercut yourself.
Yeah. And I found too with a lot of entrepreneurs, even visionaries, probably a lot like your dad, just a lot of the, you know, like you said, the entrepreneur from birth is Mhmm. They can think really big, but then oftentimes they don't have the ability to kinda put all the pieces together. That's where a lot of the skill set of the integrator comes in. And so sometimes it's just finding that. Sometimes it's just there's a trail being blaze. A guy by a guy like your dad.
And then finally, eventually, you know, your his daughter comes to clean it all up. You know, I think that I think that for the person listening, the application, everything you just said is true. It's they've gotta be able to kinda figure out what those pieces are, but it it can just be one thing. It's not it's not minimizing goals or making them small or, like, Oh, well, I think I can do this, and so that's gonna make me feel good.
And then I just, you know, checked the box because it was really easy. What we're talking about is having poise. Over the course and recognizing, like, this is gonna take me 3 years or 30 years to have this second generation family and be able to, you know, have my children running the company, like, That's not gonna happen tomorrow. My daughter's not. Exactly.
Well, then the entrepreneurial mind can be very unorganized and very industrious and wanna do, you know, a million things all at once and all of that can be true and also step 1. Focus on step 1 because step 1 and step 2 and step 3 add up over time. Yeah. Yeah. It's the old adage. They under estimate what they can do in a year, but overestimate what they can do in 5 years, or maybe I said that in the back back root reverse.
What I just heard you say Chaz far as, like, being able to dial it in, what do you think the value of, like, from your 2nd generation integrator, you still have a lot going on. And so I I don't want I don't want the listener to think that the visionary is the crazy one all over the place, and the integrator has one tasks. They come in. Like, that's obviously not how it works. So give us a little bit of, like, your EOS usage.
And then what does it look like on a daily basis for you, and then I wanna get into some practicals around decision The reason that we brought in EOS is because we're a family of entrepreneurs. So I'm one of 4 children. I have 3 young brothers, and we all think entrepreneurially. We all have amazing ideas. And what we lacked was methodical, systematic execution. So a great idea is nothing without execution. So I recognize that myself as a a an area for improvement. I saw it in our family.
We had amazing ideas. We always wanted to do right and better and improve and make the world a different place. And the ideas kinda stayed with us. So, I mean, I I it happens in the shower. You know, you have flow. Your brain gets into that alpha wave. Our family creates own out with. So we were just, you know, a black hole of ideas. So I was like, what can we do? What can we do? We we're just, like, self limiting. We're we're we're running it into ourselves.
We're just not getting out of our own way. So I actually went red traction. It was given to me as a gift, and I was like, light bulb. None of that was new. Some of those ideas are Jim Collins worth that book, what, in the eighties? This is not new stuff. And also is so basic and so foundational that it immediately leveled up our business just by even thinking about having a system. Yeah. Because now your whole mindset changes Wolfe, oh, well, what if we what if we did that within EOS?
So we brought in an implementer, implementer integrator. The words get super confused don't get hung up on Chaz. But Running a trainer, an EOS trainer. Yeah. Go get a trainer. Go get a trainer. And the reason that I strongly, strongly, strongly, like, 1000% believe in getting someone to help you implement this is because none of you as the owners or leaders or whatever of your company, none of you have to be a bad guy. You don't have to be that person coming in. Let's do change. Yeah. Rabrah.
No. Now you pay this guy to come in and do it for you. Guy or gal. Whoever you choose. We brought in this implementer, and he ran everything. And we all just got to be, like, little students. You know, looking up at the teacher. It was too it was too fun. We actually took our leadership team. It was, like, nine people, and it it's down to it's down to 3 now. So it it organized our business. We put in process. We put in data. We have almost all of the pieces of the wheel put together.
So how we use it today, every day is we still have our level 10 meeting every single Wednesday. That started on the day 1 of the process. It's still here in 2023. Every single Wednesday. At the same time, unmissable, unavoidable, you cannot schedule through it, period. And then our data component, we are extremely strong in our data, systems. So we didn't have we had goals. But they weren't necessarily being measured or tracked.
And what's the point of having a goal if you don't really Oh, where you're at? You know, if you don't keep score of the game, nobody wins. That's no fun. We all play the game to win. So we kept the data component, and we kept the level 10 component. We also have kept the, process component. So we went and refined down a lot of our systems. In our industry, we have very high quality standards. So we already had kind of procedures and a quality system that was weird. It's very large and clunky.
And I think that's a symptom of us trying to grow and kind of putting another ceiling in. You tend to grow your systems, and then they become too bulky. So you gotta scale back down for efficiency. We hit that ceiling hard So EOS reframe that and help us focus on exactly what is most important. So those are the 3 that have been pivotal to us. Yeah. I love all three.
I wanna dig into that last one just Smidge, you had systems and and give us a little bit understanding of what it meant to build out too many systems or have them kinda get in the way. Where you had to kinda go the opposite direction and reframe. Give us a little bit of that. Well, when we're very small, you have a very close key team. And they all know how to do everything. They're all personally invested. They are company people.
You don't have to worry about things getting done because there's that innate sense, intrinsic motivation. You're not out there cracking the whip. It just gets done. And then you grow. And you have to bring in people that aren't necessarily immediately aligned with your vision. Don't get you. It and they have to be shepherded. And in order to do that, the first instinct is ratchet it down so that they can understand, write everything down.
Control everything so that they don't come in and do it different than we used to. It's always been this done this way. So we have to run it down really fast and make sure that only this way. And that really narrows the view and the value of bringing in people as you grow because then you're bringing in fresh ideas, new faces, people that aren't babies that grew up with this company, you lose all that value. So then you come full circle and you're like, shoot.
We need to start acting like more entrepreneurial. Yeah. Like back in the oldies, when we just, like, did stuff, we need to do that again. So we got so large, and we had a process even for, like, phone calls, how to answer them. We had a three page procedure on how to answer. Now the real question would be, did you have one on how to use the restroom? We were darn close. We I mean, I did have to train people how to open the toilet paper thing and put the toilet paper. I knew it.
Okay. So for the person listening right now who, is that other end of the spectrum. They just started their business in the last couple of years, and they're really in the Wolfe west. And they're and when you say system, they're like, oh, I gotta get to that one day. If you can reverse back because you gave us the other side. It was, like, where you outgrew it, right, and you had to, like, oh, jeez. We did. It's something for everything and way too detailed. We gotta scale it back.
What about for that person who has nothing? It's really hard to pick where to start because it looks like you need to start on everything all at once. And that's an impossible task, and you're gonna burn yourself out before you even get into it. So pick one thing. So if it's accounting, solely focused on accounting, everything else will be fine for 6 months. Or if it's production, pick a piece of production, so that you're not 1st of all, you're not gonna do this as as the owner probably.
You're because you have other things to do. Making sure that you have a team member that's identified and compensated and motivated to do this for you and with you. So they need to have pay and motivation They need to have authority and be empowered, and they need to have a very clear direction. So pick a thing mastermind it out into a big plan. It's and I don't care if it's 52 weeks. I don't care if it's a month, but plan it out in power and incentivize this person to get it done.
Hey, Kings and Queens. Jazz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we wanted to be able to reach other business owners too.
So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things on social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify. We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible. Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this.
Let's help each other. Let's help each other grow. Yeah. Love that. You you very easily made the assumption that that person that you're talking to understands the value of giving that task away. Because the entrepreneur, like you said, has better things to do, higher level activities, but that even in itself is an enlightenment help them with that. What what do you mean by? I have better things to do. Your business is your blood, your sweat, your tears. It's your genetic. You birthed this baby.
And now you own it, but your umbilical cord is still attached. And that means you can only go so far away from your baby. I mean, it's a very short leash that you're on right now. So you gave 2 birth to it. It is genetically you. It's not gonna be less genetically you. If you cut the cord, it's gonna be okay. And think of the freedoms that you could have that will make your baby even better if you were able to just stretch it a little bit.
So maybe you need maybe you love sales, but you don't have enough time to do sales because you're also doing quality and you're also doing production and you're also doing the billing and Wolfe, okay. What if I didn't have to do the billing? Sure. Then I could do something that will add value to my business. That I've always wanted to take more on of. You only have 24 hours in a day.
And realistically, we don't have 24. We have about 12, maybe, of real, you know, time awake that's cognizant and not delirious and coffee fueled. So you know, we have a very finite frame to get actionable work done. And if that actionable work is kinda put to the side for just babysitting your baby, take the ownership mentality that you have and apply it to how you can reinvest back in your business to make it even even better next phase. Yeah. Next stage.
I I hope that the listeners pay attention to you, Heather, because you're you're so articulate and you're so kind as you're really giving them the business right now. Because I love that. Yeah. You love them. And and I do as well. That's why I set you up because I just had to have you hit at home. You have crushed every single answer I've given to you. I wanna flip the script a little bit.
You've given us a ton of value around good decision, and even given us several examples of how you guys have used EOS to make great decisions. Appreciate that. Let's flip the coin. Let's get a little vulnerable. Tell us about an hour of a decision that was not good at all and how you could have, you know, kept from it, or what can we learn from it? Yeah. This one was painful to think about, and I actually avoided it for about a week. I got the run of show and I said, nope. Don't like that one.
Maybe he won't ask it. I don't know if I wanna prepare for this because as my personality type, I have to recognize that perfection is the only option. In my brain, and that's very dysfunctional thinking. So I immediately reacted negatively and said, I can't talk about a failure because then I'll be a failure. So first of all, I had to confront that in myself. And then I reframed it. I was like, well, you know, there's definitely things that we could have done better.
And part of that sharing is gonna be able to lift the the feeling that just burns inside of my my heart of, like, is terrible. So I'm I'm excited to share it because looking back on it, oh, it's still painful. Yeah. So at one point, we decided that we were going to enter a new market, a new type of capacity, completely different product flying that we had absolutely no experience in. But, like, when my dad started the business, he saw the need, and we saw this need out there that wasn't filled.
So we went and we bought a piece of equipment that was 3 quarters of $1,000,000. We never used it. Oh, that's exciting. It never got turned on. It was never completely installed. It has never been implemented. It is gathering dust in a building. Still today. Still today. Never Never. And that's 3 quarters of a $1,000,000. We finance that. We went to our bank. They gave us money. They trust to us that we were responsible, and it was an investment in our business.
And we went head long into it, and it was it was a mistake. We Looking back, we didn't understand the market. We didn't take the time to do research. We didn't take the time to understand how to staff it. To get the expertise because we never done it before. I didn't know how to do this process. My dad didn't nobody knew. We knew kinda what it was. We didn't have a clue. Wow. And we didn't take the time to see that through to say, well, should we hire somebody now? It we didn't plan it.
We entrepreneur ed it, and we went and we're like, yeah. A new process. Wolfe. Have we go went and bought a it was it was a leap of faith that we could have taken a little bit more time on and done a little bit more methodically. And it was a very, very expensive mistake. I wanna point out 2 things.
They're both sides of the coin, one that'll support, of what you just said, and one that'll give the listeners a little tickle in their ear because it's it's gonna be the opposite, but everything you just said as far as entrepreneurship, it yes. We'll figure out the rest later. You know? That's so exciting. And I think every you me, everybody listening right now is like, yes. Let's do that. Right. Siphon it in my veins, adrenaline hit. Let's go.
Now there are a certain group of entrepreneurs, and I'm sure that they're listening as well who are much more methodical, and they think through things, but that's That's not me. That's not you. Now I like to think through things and take speed at the same time. So I can a little bit do both, but Chaz mostly means that I've made some bad decisions also. Okay. So inside of that's how businesses start. That's how, like, you you gotta take the leap of faith. Like, you can't not ever do Chaz. Right?
But when you did it, it was a huge mistake. And so I guess but but at the same time, so the other coin the other side of the coin is that it didn't kill you. No. It didn't. I lived. It it was very painful. It's still painful. Every time you cut a check for a loan on a piece of equipment that isn't doing anything for your business, it hurts. Yeah. And it's a reminder. Yeah. Cool. Okay. So can you can you give us sneak peek? Like, did does that does it ever get sold?
Like, what are you guys doing with that? I mean, give us a little bit of the ending of the story. Close the loop. The gray part is the market is there. It's just not with us. So it's absolutely for sale, and and the right buyer will come along, and it's gonna be snow peas because it was one of the first West Coast installations for our supplier, Gasberry. It's terrific equipment. I want Gasbury to be accept successful and an amazing company and partner for us.
And the right person will come and look at this beautiful piece of equipment and be like, yes. And that's gonna happen because right now, you and I are manifesting it. We're putting out the the frequency waves out. Somebody's gonna need it. Can we know what kind of equipment it is? It is a gas nitrider. Okay. So what it does is it takes gas, ammonia, and a mix of stuff, and it puts a case layer.
So chocolate dip strawberry, but with metal pieces and really hard coating that makes it wear resistant for a wide variety of applications. There you go. Need a need a metal dipper. That's it. Now I I know you probably don't know this, Heather, but, I own several edible arrangements franchises So What? I know chocolate dipped driver is way more than you wanna know. I love edible arrangements. My brother got me one that's bigger than my head for my birthday last year. It was amazing.
Okay. So we we've kinda gone through some decision making here. I I wanna ask you a, a question about family because you've obviously, you know, been in business with your family, and you still are. What? I there's two sides here. There's probably always two sides, and I've tried to cover both, I guess. People say never partner with people in general, never go in business with family, and then there's you guys. And you're all in there altogether. It's always been that way.
You even talked about how it's been. The greatest thing and the worst thing ever. So the person listening right now who's either thinking about going to business with their family or who is in business with their family, how how do they do it well to where they can win together at work, but then also still be family? Yeah. The foundational idea is you are a family first. So no matter what happens at the business, you still have to go to Thanksgiving with these people.
And you can only talk about business so long before you run out of things to talk about. So if you're looking at bringing family into your business, the business cannot become the identity of your family. Because then you have a very hollow family. And when the business is gone, if when the business is gone, then you have nothing left with your family. Can't hollow out yourself and fill it with business.
So if you're looking to bring family in, fundamentals at the very beginning is establishing an operating agreement. And I don't mean just, like, sitting down writing it. No. Like, I general frank conversation about, let's make it a completely catastrophe conversation. Go to the worst case scenario. Nobody wants to sign a prenup because they don't wanna think about getting divorced when they're about to get married.
And that's the same idea that you're gonna wind up if you're bringing a business here in this romance love dating period where everything's very exciting and fresh, and we need to take the time to take a pause and go and discover that scenario and what it looks like and what feelings come up because you might find that you have 2 very divergent opinions And those 2 may never coincide. And if that worst case scenario comes to pass, it will conquer and divide and you're talking estrangement.
You're talking, a foundational dysfunction that will affect your business. So if you think your business was going great, and your family is great. Just wait till you run out of money. Wait till something goes wrong, and that will test. The relationship in ways you you can't realize, and it hurts when it happens. So if you're thinking about it at all, have the hard conversations today.
And if you aren't comfortable embracing that conversation, because it's really painful and you don't wanna think about it, get somebody to help you uncover it slowly piece by piece. A lot of people don't even wanna bring their family in because they're like, oh, that's a momma pop shop. That's not professional. I wanna have a professional business. Well, spoiler alert, you can be a professionally run family owned business. That's right. We've done it. We're there. Is it perfect? Absolutely not.
Have we had periods of estrangement? Absolutely. Have we had periods of dysfunction? Absolutely. Are there times that I don't talk to my family? Absolutely. And yet we're right or die. Yeah. Something happens, we are old there. My father-in-law passed away on April. My entire family swoops in like a ArmCloud and just swirled around me and love and support. So no matter what, they're there, and that's what I knew and continue to know.
But if you're just starting out, it might feel like you can only have one or the other. And that's a really hard balance. So explore that early and explore it often. You've given us a lot of practicals there inside the business, you know, the operating agreement, making it real, talking about the worst case scenario. I think that's super important. You made one little comment about that. I have to do Thanksgiving with these people.
What does Thanksgiving typically now you can answer this, you know, for for your spouse and and your micro family, as well as maybe the greater family. But some of my family questions are around, like, you know, I believe in obsession, not necessarily balance. I don't I don't even think a balance exists. And so how do we go all in on the business, all in on the family, all in on the marriage, all at the same time.
And so taking that question, that context, what does Thanksgiving or really any other example look like when you have to do it with these people that you're either working or for your micro family, whether they're involved with the business or not. The first step is recognizing the balance is impossible. I love your idea of obsession. So obsession means that you can go through a phase of life. And something can be important this day.
And then another day, it can be not important or less important. That is how we handle holidays. So some years, it's what we call clamps giving, and we're sitting there in our office at work on Thanksgiving, and we're applying dye Kim marker to customer's hardware, and we worked 12 hours on Thanksgiving. That's a 1 year that happened. And then there's other years where we don't see anybody when in COVID, Right. We didn't see anybody.
We had our little micro family, and it was very small and intimate, and it was wonderful too. So not putting a definition on how your family acts tradition is important. Tradition and honoring legacy and all of that can still be in your mind, and you can still do what's right for your either micro family or larger family year to year. Sometimes we eat, sometimes we work, and we always talk about work because who we are. It's built into us genetically. It's I hate the idea of obligatory holidays.
I know my family loves me 365. So why does it take one day to sit down and eat a turkey and love each other? No. So freeing yourself up from a little bit of tradition and a little bit of, you know, that social hierarchy that maybe we will raise with might hope and be less stressful, at least.
I think that you said it Wolfe, depending upon, you know, who in your family, maybe you're thinking of, as I say this, but, you know, the the doing the conversations or doing life that has to do with the business. I'm sure a big part of that is the business for you guys, but then there's also the other things too. You know, there's things that happen either negatively or positively.
They have nothing to do with the business and a family or even good relationships, friends, or even some of the the clients that I have now in in a peer to peer mastermind have become friends because when when you're close like that, you check on each other. You you're interested. You're curious. You dig into just all the different areas of life. You're kinda running with each other for lack of better terms. That's what I see your family doing.
You guys are just maybe a little chaotic sometimes, but you're running together in life. Doesn't have to just be always about the business, though, to your point earlier. Don't let it be just that. Right? Yes. You still are an individual, and obligation, family, family, legacy, and all of Chaz. That can be in the background, but in the end, you are you, and you can do whatever the hell you want. It's you're not obligated to anything on this life. Yeah. I've got a question for you about your dad.
It sounds like a gentleman that would just bring light to really any room that he stepped into. Maybe we'll have to get him on the pod. But Yeah. My my question for you is for as a daughter, maybe a different personality, maybe similar, but as a daughter, and then you have this bigger than life personality like he talked about. What do you think is important for because I'm gonna guess that a lot of entrepreneurs listening are similar in fashion to your debt.
Like, entrepreneurial and thinking kind of bigger than live, you know, charge the hill, start something out of scratch. You know? Yes. What can we what can we heed from you Chaz our own nine year old daughter, like mine, I I can start doing with them now Chaz either he did with you or that you wished he would have done with you. There's 2 very separate answers that I have for this. The very first one is I would do exactly what my dad did. He let us come to work.
Let your kids come to work with you. It's not probably the easiest thing, and it was he probably had no fun. Yeah. But, you know, he made his office to where we could come and visit him. He cut a hole in his desk. It's a big Wolfe traditional very, you know, stately desk, virtually my grandfather's. The Mahoggan. Yes. It it is. It's just like, super manly and, yeah, statuesque. And he cut a hole in it, and he put a TV in it. And then he put a couch in front of his desk.
Now we could come to work. And even if we weren't following him around, we could just plop our butt right on that couch, and we could watch some TV while dad's doing work. And that is what some of my very fondest most cherished childhood memories are hanging out at thermal bag with my dad. My mom worked there too. I can I'll send you a picture. She's typing away to typewriter back when we had typewriters. And my my brother's in the the little playpen next to her. So Chaz was right.
Show your kids the value of honest work, having integrity, showing up on time, dealing with customers, logistics of business, because we don't teach it in school. Right. There's no exposure to it at all. Taxes, P and Ls, everything. But we got shown that very early, and he was full currency. Okay. The other thing that I think that we could have done better, collectively, as a father, done, daughter duo, is communicate better.
We share similar personality traits only to a very small portion of our personality. So about 10% of my personality identifies with his. And vice versa. That 10% wasn't exploited enough. We didn't use that connection point often enough or deep enough to where our relationship was surface in a lot of ways. So I feel like If I could go back, I would try harder earlier to connect with him deeper to understand as a person.
Maybe we could have found more than the 10% if we had started when I was a little girl. He was building a business. He had big things to do. He put blood, sweat, and tears. He wound up getting divorced over this business, among other things. But, you know, that's the piece I would do a little bit differently. And I think he he would accept some ownership over that too. Both of us are very stubborn. That's a 10% stubborn, pig headed, single-minded, powerful type a. That's that 10%.
Yeah. Yeah. So when that tries to go at each other, it tends to just be like a train. Yeah. Yeah. And it it got explosive, and I really think that we could have come at that from a different, more productive standpoint. So if you're looking at your nine year old, first thing you gotta do is tell her you love her with all her heart, She is the most beautiful, special, smart creature you have ever seen in your entire life and then continue to tell her that every single day until you die.
Yeah. Super powerful. The the description there of not that we're opposites or that we're aren't alike or that We just didn't do communication well. What what I heard you say was that the little bits where it crossed over, we should've just focused on that more. Yes. And I think that that's so spot on, and I mean, Chaz I as you're talking, I'm just going through, you know, my relationship.
I've got 3 daughters now, but the oldest is 9 and and but going on 21 and ready to own her own business one day. So these are these are great insights selfishly for me, but I think I think I think a lot of listeners are gonna get from, value from that as well. I've got one last question here for you, Heather. I've got the We've got a little time machine here. We're gonna roll back the clock. You pick the age. You get to find the younger Heather. You tap her on the shoulder. Whisper inner ear.
What do you say? Every piece. Of you is lovable, has value, and is just fine. Exactly the way it is right now. And change is your choice. And no one else's. Just sign the end of the book because that was the end. Heather, you're an incredible individual, clearly, like, an incredible CEO, running a business that is doing major things. You're helping people And the first woman get to the moon, uh-uh, apparently. I mean, uh-uh, just just a quarterly rock. No big deal. Check out Artemis.
When you have a chance, just go Google the Artemis missions. It's amazing. And you guys get to be part of that. Thank you for allowing us to be part of your journey here today. How can the listener Find you as an entrepreneur, they wanna connect with you, or if they want to somehow some way put their thing in your heater up machine, And Yes. I'm gonna get a bumper sticker with that. I need a 2 shirt. How Chaz I find you? So I'm I'm very active on LinkedIn.
You can find me under Heather Falcone on LinkedIn. I post almost every day. My Instagram is cycle Try gal. I do triathlons and cycle and climb out and stuff. So you can find me on Instagram there. Those are the best two ways to connect with me, or I'm in the industry everywhere. So check out any of my other podcasts. Or come hang out with me at one of our events for family owned businesses or metal treating. You wanna learn more about our heater upper thingy? Yeah. Let's go do this.
Come to one of our events. I love it. I'm excited. I love it. I don't know how we got through this entire show without you saying that you're a triathlete and that you climb mountains like Everest and amazing things. Like, I I now feel like, wait a second. We now need a part 2. So listener, possibly stay tuned if she's willing. The Facone will be back. You know? Yes. The 2 Italians will strike you back.
Italian by Heather, blessings to you, your family, your business, all that you're touching, and the projects that you're touching, whether it be here on earth or in outer space, Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Thanks so much. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the way all by yourself. What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.
In fact, we are putting together 1000 Kings specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe, that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
So if that relates and and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you sharp qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gathering the king's dot com. I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.