On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. I always like to say that if your business is built on the back of another business, you don't really have a business. You don't really have any control because if they decide to drop your product, you know, your your Wolfe, and that's just your ego talking, and it's great to have people report to you that have skills that you don't have and probably never will have. What's up everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe Gathering the King's podcast. I'm your host.
Coming at you today with a Kuwait on the king stage, Queen Erica Strom, Silversteyn, mouthful, but you're here. Welcome, Erica. Thanks, Chaz. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. I I am excited for you to be here as well. You have you and your just have an incredible story. I'm a huge legacy guy, and so, you're probably don't even know this, but I'm, like, really interested to get into your story because I'm trying to learn how to do what your family's doing with my family.
So I'm your biggest fan. Here we are. Tell us what kind of business that you guys have. Sure. Thanks for the compliment, Chaz. I really appreciate it. So, yeah, so wine enthusiasts is, both a media and commerce site, built around the wine lifestyle. So We both sell the products that you need to enjoy wine from wine sellers to glassware to corkscrews, and then we have a print publication.
Where we rate and taste wine and try to educate our readers on everything there is to know about the wine world. Wow. There's a lot going on in your space. Yes. Now be before we hit the record button, you said it so beautifully. So I wanna give you a chance to say it because even though I I personally I I I don't consume wine. My wife does.
And the way that you said bringing you said bringing basically, like, education to wine give us that give me that one liner that you said right before we hit the record button. Yeah. So our our goal, and I'll talk a bit about our founding story, but our goal is always to make wine approachable. Because wine is just so stuffy. Let's admit it today. It's so stuffy, and we don't want it to be. So we've been pushing for over 45 years to demystify wine, and I'm continuing to push on that today.
So because the more customers you welcome in, the more approachable you make wine, the better your more your business will grow. So it's just good business, and it's good for people as well. So the the the word approachable is is what kinda caught my attention there. And then and then you finished it off by saying that people kinda know wine or at least maybe the industry to be stuffy. And so talk about that for just a quick second.
Talk about what stuffy versus what's approachable and and why is approachable important to you? Yeah. So I think with wine, there's sort of this people perceive that it's an elitist drink, and it It's really just a beverage, just like Coca Cola, just like beer, just like seltzer.
Of course, it's much better than those in our view because it has a whole lot of other things going on from families that produce wine, the the agricultural nature, the history of it, and bringing people together, but historically, there is a certain way people talk about wine. It's been In some cases, far too expensive. Sure. And so people feel like it's kind of out of reach for them, and that's really changed over the years.
You can get an approachable drinkable, delicious bottle of wine for $10. You can get a box of wine. That's still really good. We've given awards to box wines over the years, and we still continue to do that. And I think that the more people enjoy wine and see it as a delicious beverage that really kind of, like, enhances their day and their gatherings and their their get togethers and celebrations.
But more satisfaction people Wolfe feel and the happier because everybody needs a moment to relax and exhale and That's kind of what we view Wines contribution is to the world. Very cool. Yeah. I love the just the you know, almost you pitted them against each other. You know, stuffy and and approachable. And I think every business owner listening today, even though maybe they aren't in the wine business, they're thinking, how do I bring my solution, my business?
How do I how do I figure out what that, you know, almost like that opposite story is. And so I think you guys have that just really dialed in and not only is it cool to hear, but also I think for the listener, just encouraging for them to be like, hey. I I need I need something like that for my business too.
And you guys have had just been doing it for a long enough period of time where you've got time to work it Let's let's talk about the let's talk about the generational story now at this point. I mean, how did the business start? What were you doing? How how have you come up in the business? Give us a little bit of the backdrop. Sure. So wine enthusiasts was founded by my parents, Adam and Civil Strom. The year was 1979. And my dad was in the wine business.
He was selling wine to restaurants in on New York City, and my mom was in commercial production for TV. So they both had kind of this consumer mindset, and they liked to drink wine at home, and they felt that there wasn't just a good place to go to get all the tools that they needed and that their friends needed to buy to enhance, you know, their wine experience, whether it be a cork screw or a wine cellar. And so they boot staffed this business. They decided to print catalog.
And now they started out of our addict. I was not even born yet. And so they started in at small town called Chappaqua, New York, and they borrowed a bit of money from the parents. They they didn't come from any kind of wealth at all and they just kind of took a chance. They launched with some products, some small cork screws, and, glassware and small wine sellers. And they printed a catalog and slowly grew from there.
So when I was little, I remember, you know, my mom and dad at night after I was put to bed, like, processing orders and things like Chaz. And it was always just part of growing up. And Yeah. It was part of this mentality that you have to work hard. And so that's always been part. My upbringing. Yeah. And so it started with that commercial side, the retail part of the business. Which is still the larger share of the company. That's the part where we sell stuff to you.
Yeah. And then 10 years later, they decided that they wanna to not only sell people the things that they use to enjoy wine, but help them navigate the thousands of wines that they're over on the market. Yeah. And there's a lot every single country in the world produces wine. And so how do you know the right bottle to purchase if you're live in a state that has a lot of wine distributed there. The wine shops are just lined with bottle after bottle. Yeah. So how do you make an educated decision?
So they founded the magazine with that premise of helping people kind of decipher which wines are the best, and they started tasting wine on the 100 point scale. So every bottle of wine that comes to us to be tasted taste it blind. That's really important. It's literally blind that they put bags, paper bags on every bottle. And the tasters are completely independent, and they score every wine that's submitted. Wow. And then it gets published in the magazine.
So, Chaz, if you're picking up, you know, the October issue, we're talking about what wines are on the market, we're giving them, you know, anywhere from 80 to 100 point. And then that helps people when they're in the shop to know, is this a good wine? It's just not a good wine because people only have so much discretionary income if they're gonna spend $20 or a $100 or a $1000 They wanna know that it's money Wolfe spent.
Yeah. And so now those businesses exist together in a nice little ecosystem and We really feel like we're kind of coming full circle to provide everything that people need to, to enhance their lives. Yeah. I love how you guys tie it together to the experience of wine. You know, I think that I think that a lot of people, especially in today's world, really probably our generation and below are all about the experience of life. Right?
And and even though you had parents teaching you hard work and and I did too growing up single mom family, I think that what we value a lot of times more than the material things is Chaz the experience. And so I I love how you guys are creating your whole business around not only just the experience of this product, but then helping other people have have that amazing experience as well. For you particularly growing up in that environment, I know it was just a part of life.
Just it was the business, and and I'm sure you probably, you know, were licking envelopes and, you know, that type of, you know, early stage stuff, but What do you think that that had as an impact on you? I mean, obviously, you're in the business now, so it's a huge impact, but growing up in an entrepreneurial family like that where they're bootstrapping something together gotta pretty obsessed, pretty all in. What was that like growing up in that environment?
Yeah. It was it was some moments challenging because my parents did what they could as far as being around for me, but it was a 2 working parent households. And so They they came to every, you know, school event, every soccer game, but I knew that they were always, you know, really, really busy at the same time. And so I think one of the values that was always important growing up was was working hard, but also this, like, self reliance To this day, we have no outside funding.
Very proud of that. The company's grown to the point that we're a 9 figure business now with 0 outside funding. But on the flip side, I know that some of your listeners might relate to this. Sometimes means that as a Chaz a president, I don't always know when to ask for help. That's right. And so that can also be, like, a great weakness because you sort of push and push and push until you're at a breaking point and you're like, oh, maybe someone else could do just as good of a job Right.
With this thing as as as I could, and it it takes time. I'm still really working on Chaz. Every day. Even preparing for things like podcasts, I mean, I used to do all my own everything, talking points. Right. I'm trying to rely on my team to help me pair for for these types of things and but I it's still something I I'm kind of battle with every day is what can only I do that's something my mentor told me. What things can only you do is something you should ask yourself as a as a leader.
Yeah. Because number 1, You're gonna get too taxed. You're gonna get too beaten down if you take on everything yourself. But you're not gonna be there for your team. Also, if you're you're if you're overwhelmed and you're not actually generating the best ROI finger time spent for the business. So there's 2 sides, I guess, is what I'm saying. I think that hard work and that stick intuitiveness and that perseverance is is one of our greatest strengths as a family.
Yeah. But then kinda learning when to ask for help and learning how to utilize your time is something that's really like a growth area as well. Yeah. I mean, that that picture you gave to us is very true. In fact, I was thinking that Chaz you said, you know, I'm I'm proud of the fact that we haven't had any outside funding, and my immediate thought was wow. Congratulations. And then I thought, oh, man, is that a limiting belief? And not so much a limiting belief because congratulations.
I mean, what you've done, what your family has done, it is something that less than a quarter percent of the half, you know, top half percent of all, you know, just some ridiculously small number of people have done. And so do you even need help? Well, I I love the humility to say, well, everybody does at even at the highest levels. And so that's the other side of the coin. I appreciate that. I love what you said Chaz your mentor said, you know, basically, what should you be really doing?
Like, what can only you do? And what I love about that is that that changes over the course of time. And and even the higher you go and the more times you've heard that question, it's still applicable. 10 years from now, when you and I are crushing even at a higher level, we'll still have to ask ourselves that one question, which is what is the thing that I have to do and nobody else can do? And so I guess my question kind of bring this full circle is as you've seen your parents do the thing.
And then now, obviously, you're in in the president seat. And, of course, you're working with the family, but there's a lot of things that you and your team are doing now. How has that changed for you Chaz the thing that only you can do? How's that how's that progression look like? For you as the company's grown as you've grown. Yeah. So I, as you might imagine, based on what I described before, I started at the business at coordinator level.
I I did not start a president, and I've been at the company for 16 years now. So I've learned how to do everything from the ground up, and then I had to learn, and you're right, at every level, those things are different. So whether it be, like, not writing an email subject line myself Right. To maybe the next phase is so we we do a lot of development work and so not not putting in, like, the requirements. Maybe a direct report puts in the requirements for an that we're working on.
Maybe not testing everything myself. Someone else can help me test where I've started having to comfort because I have a degree in in marketing and management is those, like, those marketing tasks, like, coming up with ways to generate new emails and and things like Chaz. I you know, that probably shouldn't be my job anymore, but We have ChadGBT for that too. Oh, yeah. And so, yeah, it's it's definitely changing every year, and I'm trying to get better at it.
There's still things that I do that I that I think I probably shouldn't do. Of course. Of course. What would you say to the person listening right now? Maybe they're at a 9 figure level like you, or maybe they're just getting started. What's that one thing that you maybe wish that you would have given away sooner, or maybe just give it away this year. And you're like, oh, I should've given this way a long, long time ago. What was that one thing? So my sister and I run the business together now.
And so we had to really figure out how to create the most healthy structure for the 2 of us to collaborate, but also know our different areas. Right? And so we have this media business and this commerce business And we decided Chaz, my best skills are in the commerce business because, sort of more more analytical and her best skills around the media business because she's more creative, more of an advertising type of personality.
Yep. And so I had some things I was doing that were kinda in her area still. Uh-huh. And so when when we got our our job titles to promotion to presidents, I had to sort of figure out, well, how Yeah. How can I possibly not do those things that I used to do for the the media business?
And so we made a hire, and I had to I had to sort of make that hire in my Progyny and It was really hard for me at first to to have this this very talented young woman work on email acquisition and testing, like, things for the website and producing producing content and all those things And, of course, as soon as I did it, I was like, wow. She's doing a much better job than I was ever doing. I mean Yeah. The programs that people had learned at that point that I that I still struggle with.
Yep. It it was quite amazing. And, yeah, I was like, Wow. I should have given this up a long time ago. So, yeah, and and learning that as a as a growing business, it's We should really have people in those roles, so we struggled for a while with hiring products managers, projects managers, all these people that help others do their job better. Yeah. And those positions have been invaluable to the company because our employees are happier. Yeah. Right?
And if if your team is happy, then they produce more for you, and we're we're helping them feel like they are Contributing. And so I think that's been a good learning. It's like it's not on all of us to manage our time. There are people who literally that's their job. Is managing other people's time. That's right. That's right.
Yeah. There's a huge part of what you just described for anybody who's listening who wants to have a bigger business, eight, nine figures, or is there and maybe struggling with this, but that's the biggest gap is that you once were everything, and then you started to hire people. Okay, Grace. You got the 7 figures. But then there's, like, the separation between revenue is there, but you're still doing all the things, or in this case, managing all the people doing all the things.
And that's the biggest scale opportunity for for what an 8 and 9 figure owner looks at is, how do I put people in place to keep the machine running and and I'm not that you're not working on the business. It you're working on just higher level activities, and managing people even isn't what you should be doing at that point.
And so I think that's just great revelation for you to share, especially, again, growing up in a family business, I I can only imagine it would be it'd be difficult to give things away because it's, like, it's ours. It's a family. I do I grew up doing this. Like, all of those things that kinda keep us chained to how they always once were. You know? Yeah. And Chaz that discomfort with, oh, they're working on things that maybe I don't know how to do. Right. And that's okay.
Yeah. And that's just your ego talking, and it's great to have people report to you that have skills that you don't have and probably never will have. And nor should you. Like you said, nor should you go out and get them. You they're on your team. You have those skills now. They're on your team. That's the value of the president now is, like, I get to put pieces in place, not necessarily be the piece or manage the piece. I get to put the pieces together that make the machine go.
One thing you said between you and your sister, I'll kinda wanna hit on here because I think it's valuable whether the listeners are you know, in business with their family, whether they just have another a partner, or I would even say as far as marriage goes. You know, basically, you and your sister were, okay, growing up organically in the business. That's how all relationships start and and mostly how business starts.
But, eventually, you have to get really specialized or really, really focused And like you said, some of your things were in her lane and some of her things were in your lane and it causes confusion and and you can't go fast singularly in your own lanes. If you're constantly crossing over in each other's lanes. I see the same thing in my own marriage where Julie and I, she Julie's not in the businesses.
Like I am, but there are things that she manages in our world, our our ecosystem as the Wolfe family, and I try to stay like, out of her lane. She tries to stay out of my lane, not that we can't help each other, but we can't go fast unless, like, their defined focus. I give her autonomy. She gives me autonomy. We talk about it, of course, but from a from a family business perspective, talk about really the nitty gritty of that because I'm sure it got muddy there for a Wolfe.
With my sister and I or Yeah. Yeah. Or or even just your your parents. I can only imagine being in the business with your your parents. I'm sure there was a lot of cross there. Like, How did you un muddy the water? Really Chaz what we're looking for. When my sister and I became presidents, we created company values, and that's really rooted everyone at the company in the same place Chaz far as knowing no matter what we do, we come from this position.
So The values are innovation and open mindedness, empathy and inclusion, respect, and transparency. And so we have to live those as a family and model those. And so when we went through the change, which has been a couple years, We created all these kind of places for us to talk about those things and so that something always comes up. Even if you think it's not gonna come up, it will come up. So we have touch bases individually.
My sister and I, my dad and I, my mom and I, and then family meetings. Every single week, my parents have touched bases with people that formerly reported to them to kinda keep those lines of communication going. And then we have worked with coaches over the years. I have a coach who I love right now, and There's all kinds of frameworks that we use.
There's one I love called the clear communication guidelines, where if you have an issue, You bring it to the surface, but you create a framework to discuss it in a really safe and productive way because so much can get lost in the sauce. You know, you say something. I perceive it a certain way, but it's not the way you meant it at all. Yeah. And so I don't have the model in front of me. But it's something like thank you for saying that chest.
Here's how it sounded to me, and here's how I'm taking it. Is that what intended, and you would say, absolutely. I meant to say that or I can hear that that's how it would come off that's not and and you kind of go through that and and that that's kind of the way we we work things, but communication sharing and and having it You're really healthy. It's like something we always work on every day. It's never perfect.
I think everything that you just gave could just be bottled up, and maybe we could sell it on your website. Not only just the the model of clear communication, but also just the realness of, well, look, we're a family or we're a employer employee. Like, it's a there's going to be tension. There's gonna be differences of opinion. Differences of thought. There might be an issue that needs to come to surface from one or the other or both. And so and it should.
We're humans working together in a very close environment, especially on the family side. So what I loved you said in response to that was that you have not just we get together and do meetings. It's like, no. No. No. You have touch points. They're designated and they're weekly, which means they're on the calendar. Would you Absolutely. Which means and changing them as sacred. Yeah. Exactly. Try not to change them. Because there's value.
Even though I bet you, there's sometimes where it feels mundane, Julie and I have a family meeting every single week as well. Our kids are little, so they're involved in some of that, but not not really. Not yet. But there's there's a there's realness in communication and creating the space. Even if there's nothing really going on that needs to be super dug into, it's the space for it every single week and take that into business.
And it's almost like it has to happen, especially when there's family and business happening at the same time. Would you agree with that? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Give give us just one last thing here before I move on from this, like, you know, obviously, there's a lot going on in the business. You get, you know, the involved.
You and your sister kinda running the individual, you know, companies, if you will, but about family, business, like, whoever's listening right now and they're in a business, with their family, what would just like the one liner of, like, encouragement of how to do business and family together? What would you say? I love that we're parent y, I think just always talking about any concerns consistently Yeah. And not bottling them up. I think that's key. Yeah. It's good. Alright.
Well, let's talk about some some decisions that you guys have made because, obviously, you have a perspective of watching your parents make decisions, but then you've made your own decisions in in in the business as well. So I'm curious from from a second generation looking at your parents. What was one of the decisions that you've seen them make in the business where you're like, great job, guys. Like, well done. What was that that you got to be a part of, but, like, from an underneath active.
Let's see. I mean, they've made so many great decisions over the years. I I just love the fact that they're it was just always rooted in in openness and inclusion, and that's really never gone out of style. In fact, it it's more in style, you know, every single day. Sure. I think there's always opportunity to welcome people in. Yeah. You know, I think that I think that we've really changed a lot as far as our employee policies, and I'm really, really proud of that.
My parents have been very supportive of all of that in every step of the way. From really expanding our parental leave policies to changing our time off policies to be unlimited PTO, to allowing people, especially when the pandemic things were so heated. Of course, what's our policy gonna be how are we going to allow people to work and live and support our employees.
Yep. And so we've really been flexible We hire people that don't even live in New York or headquarters is in New York, and we just felt we should try to acquire the best talent no matter where people are. Yeah. And so if you live more than 2 hours away, you can still completely work from home as many days the week as you want.
But now that things have, I'm so happy to say, you know, gotten a little bit better as far as the pandemic goes, We're still only requiring 2 days a week in office, and that's just for people who are really close by because we really wanna promote and support people having time for their families. Like, I know it's been a great adjustment for me to to get to have, like, Some, I I guess we'll call them margin hours, you know, maybe 9 AM to 10.
I can do something that I need to around the house, and maybe I'll work a little bit later into the evening. Right. But that work life family balance is is really crucial. We also we don't allow emails on the weekends. So everyone's gotten really good, including my parents, even though they're obsessed of founders. Uh-huh. And a scheduling emails, if I have something I really wanna say to you, Chaz, and it's 9 PM, I'll schedule it to hit your inbox tomorrow.
And and that's been that's been really key. And Yeah. After we made all those policy changes, We did win the great places to work, a word earlier this year, and I'm really, really proud of that. And so some things are more of a discussion than others, but Yeah. For the most part, my parents have been super, super supportive of of all those decisions. And I think, like, you know, really modern in that way because not every founder has that mindset. Hey, Kings and Queens. Jazz Wolf.
I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too. So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things.
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Yeah. I I think you did a great job of explaining not only just flexibility, but their willingness to grow, really, is what it comes down to is, like, I'm not gonna just stay here and be stagnant how we've always been. I wanna I wanna keep getting better and better and better. And and oftentimes when you get a company at the size of yours, it makes sense that you have to start getting creative in new ways, especially when you have as many employees as you guys do, so it makes perfect sense.
What do you think was the hardest thing for them in all of that? Not necessarily that they wouldn't wanna take good care of it. People, obviously, they do. Is it just, like, meant that they were a little older or maybe just that they that they're crazy obsessive founders and they just see things differently because that's what I relate to, you know, for sure. What do you think the hardest thing for them of the growth has been?
So I think and I was gonna say in COVID, because a lot of people were home, they were buying things for their house. And so And that's really what we do is we help support making people's homes set up to enjoy wine. So we really saw a record growth and What we found in year 1 is we were taking a look at our our overhead as a percent of revenue. And because we grew so much, but we didn't hire, was almost a unhealthy place.
Sure. So the number of people we had versus the revenue was was almost too low. I and it was unsustainable. We had just so much business and not enough support. And then we would have gone into the next year, which would have been 2021. With kind of like a a thirsty starved business, maybe pun intended. And so I as much as it was exciting to hire people from other places. I think it was a little tough for my parents to not be able to shake people's hand.
My dad loves walking around the office He is very dramatic. He loves to sing. And, like, he would love walking down those falls and shaking people's hands and saying, hello. And I think that was a little hard. And we love our employees that are remote, of course, but it was a little hard never getting to meet someone and having them work for us per year. Enough.
So that was strange, but then we remedied that with this new model that I believe a lot of companies are doing, which is these, like, annual or biannual town halls. Yeah. And so we did that this year. When we flew people in, anyone that wanted to fly in, you could come meet in person. And so they got that moment of and all of us got that moment of meeting people that have worked for us for anywhere from 1 to 2 years that we just never met in person. And It was amazing.
I love and support flexibility, but you just cannot replace the value of meeting someone in person. Even if they then, you know, go back Florida. You don't see them again for 6 months. Right. Had that moment where they feel like they're part of something. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Everything you're giving is is not only just accurate and right. With gathering the king's peer to peer mastermind group, we we launched with really flexibility in mind because I'm a busy CEO.
I've got multiple companies. I wanted to be part of a a group of people doing big things, but I didn't wanna meet every single month in person downtown Kansas City and spend an entire 8 days doing or 8 hours doing it. And and so there's there's local stuff, and that's great, but I wanted to make it virtual across the country. And and so what happens exactly what you just described, we meet online, But then a couple times a year, we get together, and I'll tell you what.
When you have seen somebody on a screen, like you and I are now, but if we did this regularly, And then months down the road, like, you're talking about with your employees, you get together. You know this person, but you've never actually, like, embraced this person. It is one of the most amazing situations because you, like, you know each other, but you're knowingness of each other just skyrockets because not the first time meeting. It's the first time meeting, but it's not the first time.
You know what I mean? Right. It's those conversations those conversations that happen in between the meetings, There's no conversations in between meetings when you're remote. So and sometimes people say, oh, that's annoying, and it's distracting the water cooler talk. Right. But you need a little bit of it because we're all just every when you have back to back to back teams meetings, you know, maybe you do the small talk, the beginning of the call.
And until everyone arrives, nobody likes that. It's it that's not like the enjoyable part of in person interactions. Yeah. But so last week, we if you could tell, I'm big on emails. I still think email will will and owning data for any any company is just the best way to build your business. You don't wanna rely on the platforms. It's just like a very scary way by the platforms. I mean, Google and Facebook.
Yeah. Anyway, so we we had this big win, and we got, like, 1000 of new emails, you know, in a few days. And I was in the office, and it was one of our required in person days. And so there were a lot of people there, and I'm just, like, running down the hall. Like, we got 5000 new emails today. Hang in. Did I tell you about the suit thing we're using? And this is so exciting. And and then we kind of discussed it back and forth and be like, oh, wait. That means we have to change this.
That means we have change that. Oh, let's change it. Oh, who can get on that? And the developers were there, and the marketers were there, and we were all in person. And we made a change Chaz same day. Yeah. And that wouldn't have happened. That meeting was not scheduled. That was just like Yeah. Combustion. A fortuitous moment that was not planned. And so just finding that balance, I think, is really important. Oh, and and after the town hall, like, we all went out for drinks. Really late.
And that's almost as valuable as the entire day because you just learn about people's families and their lives and Yeah. Any check-in with them. I think I think checking in is really, really, really key. Yeah. Yeah. And when we can do it in person, it's even better. I had a master of my member. We did an in person, one of very similar to which Tarmont just a couple weekends ago.
And a master of my member said, you know, that he knew that he'd be winning in this particular area of life that we were discussing. When he had friends that checked in on him. So everything that you just said is super important, not just from a family friend perspective, but even Chaz employers, when we look at our teams, like, do we see the human on the other side, or is it just a set of hands? Is it just a mind? Is it just are they just numbers?
Because the human on the other side of the transaction has a family and has desires and hopes and dreams and checking in with those things is, like, what humans do. It's like when you Yeah. Get what you do when you care about somebody. Yeah. We've been doing these these wellness days, especially now with getting more cold in New York, and this is kinda when people start to get a little sick. And so we've brought in speakers and, like, I think Wednesday, we're doing chair massages at the office.
And so we had the cofounder of Bonobos Okay. Andy Dunn and He spoke about because it was a mental health awareness day. Yeah. He spoke about kind of coming to a realization that he was bipolar. And talks really, really openly and candidly about that, which was very moving for a founder to do to kind of, like, demonstrate and show an area that they're struggling with. Yeah. And he said when you check-in with people, it's so easy for them to just say I'm fine.
Like, even when we started talking pleasant trees, when we got on today's, how's it going? I'm good. And I I always think about it. I like that. Mhmm. Because there's always something else going on, but we're so quick to just say, like, how are you? I'm good. And move on and and people feel almost awkward staying. Something different. Beyond that. Yeah. But Andy was kind of encouraging people to, like, give employees a little more. Half a beat to to say what they're what's really going on.
And even as a founder to share, instead of just being like, Yep. I'm good. Just being like, I'm good, but, you know, I really struggled with getting my kids on the bus this morning. And I feel like I wasn't nice to them. Yeah. And and they might say, oh, me too. Or, I'm having challenges with you know, my mom or whatever it might be. And then you have now you have a connection, not a drive by. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Super powerful.
Can't can't this is all, like, just really great psychology that works, you know, 2 humans in in a relationship. I used to say when I was in corporate America, you know, very similar to what you just said as far as a drive by, but, you know, you Wolfe by somebody on the way to the water cooler, the restroom, whatever. It's, you know, hey. How's it going? And then the person says, hey. How's it going? Nobody actually ever answers the question. You know?
Yes. And so even as a as a, you know, sales trainer at that point, it was like, you know, why am I gonna ask someone how are they doing if I don't actually wanna hear the answer? So first off, just say what you mean. Number 1, if you just wanna say hi, just say hi. If you do wanna ask them how they're doing, you might stop walking, and you might lean in a little bit. Like you're saying, create that space, especially as owners, founders, CEOs, presidents, the leader.
It it matters, like big time, and just all it takes is just a little bit of curiosity to say, like, I realized that there's a human on the other side of this conversation, and I wonder how they're actually doing. I wanna I wanna give more encouragement too because the the struggle is what I think a lot of people might be cutting off because it might be negative. You know, like, how are you doing today? And you're like, oh, did I struggle with x, y, z?
And it's like, you know, I I don't say it because I don't wanna be negative. And everything Yeah. Everything that Erica gave you guys is real Chaz far sharing the struggle with your people, but it could also be a win. In fact, that's when you referenced us getting on this call here, you were like, hey. How's it going? And I I I I did the same thing you did. I'm like, I don't wanna just say, hey. Good. And then we move on. It was like, you know, it's Monday, and I'm after it.
Is my 3rd podcast today. Let's go. And it can it can be a win. Right? But the struggle is typically where the connect, like, the real deep part of the connections are made in relationships because you can relate. I mean, that's what we're doing right here. Right? You're telling your story. The listeners are going, oh, man. I've never maybe been part of a a family business that that grew like this, but but I can relate to x part of your story. You know?
So wanna I wanna switch this a little bit to to you, Erica. And and then we've talked about your parents and and maybe your perspective of them and maybe some of the decisions that they've made, but you know, you're now in a position of leadership. What's something that you've done that's been one of those struggles that you just were talking about?
Like, something that you that you did looking back on it, maybe you shouldn't have done, or it just wasn't the best hour, something that we can learn from. What's something like that? Yeah. Absolutely. So I've been really trying to brush up on my negotiation skills. I'm taking a class. 8 week course through the London School of Business and negotiating. And I've always been raised and taught that the two people on negotiation are on the opposite sides. Right?
And that's that's how I've always gone into things, like engagements. And so we had a a big project where We were working with an agency to to do something for us and they, you know, we got the contract. We we got the master services agreement, and I I gave it to all of the the lawyerly folks, and they read through it, and they red lined it all. And it just turn into a big fight, not even just pricing, but it was pricing and terms and and everything. And I thought like, yeah.
Like, we're being tough. This is this is good. I've got all these people on my side helping and And we got everything we asked for, but the project was an absolute disaster. And I think that they shouldn't like us very much. You know? Yeah, so from the beginning, we sort of kicked off as adversaries.
Yeah. And I think that was really big learning for me because when we got to point where Chaz these things do, we ran out of hours, we needed more time, which meant they needed to ask for more money. I felt like there was no meeting in the middle. And so we reached an impact, and we sort of took the project on internally. But it felt like if we negotiated more as partners, we would have started on a much better foot.
And so that's something I'm learning a lot about now in this class, which is like thinking about the other person. And even if you're stuck on price, you know, what might be meaningful to them? You know, maybe price isn't as important as having the money early. Right. Or working with a certain person at the company. There's other things that are that are important.
And so Yeah. That was definitely something I'm gonna carry forward as it looking at our partners as partners and not and, you know, negotiations are not boxing matches. Yeah. That's super powerful. I appreciate you sharing. Quite vulnerable. Actually, and I think you just just displayed everything that you just suggested other other leaders do. So thank you for that. What do you think?
I mean, I guess you kinda gave the what would be different, but the negotiation piece of it, in essence, you're describing a win win. How would you go about creating that win win? Looking back at the scenario and seeing how you did it and maybe it was you got everything you wanted, you really just won the argument. You didn't really win in person. Right? You know, and this can go into marriage, of course. This can go into employees.
Like, You walk into a situation with one of your employees and win. Sure. Okay. Good. They're probably not gonna be there for very long. Right? So Yeah. Does the listener take away from? Whether it's negotiation with a partner, there's also an employee about making it a win win? What are may maybe some things that you're learning in your class that you could share that that would have been different for it. Yeah. Ask question. She you're curious. Don't don't go into it. Just like, ugh.
I gotta get this for $50, and that's it. So ask them what is important to them and ask them you know, was is this okay for you? Are you feeling good about this? And and also just, like, get to know them as a person. It it lines up well with what we were talking about before about making those connections. People are gonna wanna bend over backward for someone they like, someone that cares about them. Yeah. I think too often in business, we think things are very cut and dry. Price is the price.
Math is math, but we're all humans. And the more we can remember that, I think, the better. So I I think asking questions is really key, which is tough in a negotiation because you're just thinking about your sign of thing. Yep. But, yeah, be curious for sure.
Like you said, Yeah. The the curiosity, I guess, you know, to to use some of your words here is you're self aware, but what the self awareness leads to a curiosity is actually just being aware of the other people in the room and probably just a a huge generational piece, like, especially your company being passed, you know, from from your parents to you guys, really, when I look back at the last 100 years, this is how business has gone.
It's been from a, you know, almost like a brute you know, you gotta be smart, gotta be crude all the way down to, no, you have to have a high EQ now. And and that's seeing the other human involved, not so that we can be soft and syncing kumbaya because that's That's not my style either. But it's it's to actually create the win win because there's just so many options today. There's millions of companies. There's millions of people.
There's millions of wines or court screws, and why do they wanna do business with you, or why do they wanna work for you, or why do they wanna buy from you? That is more important today than it probably ever was when your parents were starting the company. If that makes sense. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, when they started, they started it because there was no place to get this thing.
And now, I mean, it's a good thing because more people are drinking wine, but that means that the big box stores are now our competitor. And so how do we work with them in a healthy way. We've kind of swung the pendulum back and forth a couple times because we we have a D2C business and then we have a B2B business. And I like to really keep an eye on making sure the b to b business doesn't, take over in the lion's share of the commerce business Chaz much as we love our b to b partners.
I always like to say that if your business is built on the back of another business, you don't really have a business because, like like I said, about platforms, You don't really have any control because if they decide to drop your product, you know, your your s o l Yeah. In the way Chaz as long as you can, you're not not a whole lot of control there.
You you've you've spoken about, you know, you kinda set it like a work life family balance a little bit ago for your employees and Although although the word balance, I think, is a figment of our imagination. I don't know if that if the balance actually exists. I think it's more like just going all in all at the same time. But my question for you is Chaz as the leader, as the president, as as an owner, as a as Nodge Perneur, who's listening today, how have you done that for yourself?
I've seen how you've done it for your employees and how you've made a in a great working environment for them. But as the person who Like, when it really comes down to it, it's your name, literally on it. And we know that you're obsessed about your business, but what about being obsessed with your family? And and the other things that are important to you outside the business.
Yeah. I think it's really it's really important to kinda check-in on what areas are not maybe so good after a given day or a given week. So one of my resolutions this year was to journal more, which it does sound Wolfe woo, but it it really makes a difference. Some nights, I don't wanna do it. A lot of nights, I don't wanna do it, but I it's really more of like a gratitude journal because I think being a leader, at least, The way my personality is, I'm always put to criticize.
So Chaz, like, at the end of the day, I'm like, why I didn't do x yz. I didn't do all these things, but taking a moment to kinda write down. This went well today. I'm really appreciative of this. I wanna do better with this tomorrow. But, yeah, always trying to grow yourself and improve yourself. I I do a lot of different things. Something are free and something are a little bit of money, but you could do a lot with just free. That's right. Just trying to go to bed early.
I've I always try to go to bed by 10:30. I don't always do it. We we do a lot of work on social, which I love in a healthy way Chaz much as possible, but it could very, very quickly veering towards unhealthy. So I do have nights where I open TikTok at 10:30 instead of going to bed. And Then I don't go to sleep till 11:30, but tryna, you know, but Wolfe also be kind to myself.
Okay. Maybe that's what I needed that night, but focusing on all those different components that make life meaningful, which is not just work, but also Yeah. Diet, doing this program. Is called the Wolfe life challenge. Okay. Right now, it's 6 weeks long. And so you think about your diet. You think about Time that's not distracted at all with family, and it could be one small thing. Having dinner with no phones on the table, Doing something to forge connection outside of your family.
That's important too. Yeah. I try to make more girlfriends. Trying to call someone who's long sense that you haven't seen in a while. All these little things can kind of do a lot for your soul. Yeah. And and really creating boundaries for yourself on when work begins, it ends. I'm not always good at that. I'm often not good at Chaz. But I'm trying. Like, we're all trying, and so trying to push but also not be so hard on ourselves. Yeah. It's key. Yeah. It it's it's honest.
And so I appreciate that. I think that know, I've asked a similar question to 100 of successful entrepreneurs, male, and female. And even for the ones that are super aware. Like, clearly you're aware. We're still working on it. And and I think, actually, that describes us as people who know that there's just levels upon levels to this thing called life, right, the whole life Chaz the experiments you're that you're going through right now. It's like, my marriage can get better.
Even though Julie and I have an amazing marriage, my my relationship with my kids can get better. My my businesses can get better. That's why I I do things that help me get better at negotiation, like taking a class or whatever. We have to have first have a realization of self awareness that they can get better. There's levels upon levels, and so it's not a matter of, like, not wanting to go there. It's like, no. Actually, I I do. I I do need to get better. I wanna get better.
So I appreciate that that that's realness because that's that's how it is. If I think if we ever stifled that and said, well, I've gotta figure it out. Like, oh, no. I've got it perfectly cutting pie sections. And, you know, my kids are over here and my business is over here. I I don't know if that actually exists. I don't know if actually anybody would believe that that exists. Right? Yeah. There's always something to beat yourself up about.
If you want if you wanna find it, you know, like, I feel like I should be doing more volunteering, you know, and I do a bit. I try to donate blood. I I cook for a a local charity. I try to do some cleanup projects, which the kids, but I feel like I can always do more. But then if I do those things, then it's like, oh, but I didn't work till 8 Chaz night. There's always or I didn't the kids to bed because I was out with my friends. Right.
And going out with your friends is a thing that helps you be a better parent. Sometimes. That's right. So there's always something missing out. I like what you said about balance because it's almost like it's not a balance. It's almost being okay with the imbalance. Is which maybe sounds cheesy, but it that is the balance because you can't do all these things on any on any day equally perfectly. Yeah. Exactly. I love that. I got one last question here for you, Erica.
If you Chaz the opportunity to roll back the clock, and you got a chance to just tap on the younger, Erica's shoulder and you whispered in her ear. What would you tell her? I would tell her, be more confident. I struggle with my confidence a lot over the years. So I would tell her, you've got this. Yeah. You're gonna be okay. Just trust your intuition. Of that. Of that. Is that a is that a learned intuition? Is that the the the Famous women's intuition? What what intuition are you referring to?
Yeah. I I feel like so it's a challenge. Chaz a family business, you get a lot of positive raw raw feedback, you know, if you have loving parents like I do. But sometimes you want an objective. Person to to also give you that positive feedback. And so sometimes you can be a little starved of that because you even if you don't report to your parents Right. You might have a boss who's probably not completely objective about your performance. Right. Right.
So that confidence for me has come as I've stepped out of my comfort zone and and work with people who maybe had no allegiance to the business Yeah. That gave me that validation of, oh, you're You're really good at this. You're a really strategic thinker. You work really hard. And and so I think that having those that third party guidance, especially if you've been in the company for a long time, you know, you forget that you're not just the boss's daughter.
You're also an independent person who has their own skills that they bring to the table. Yeah. It's huge. I appreciate you, Sharon. How can the listener find you? Number 1, if they are a wine enthusiast or they want to become 1 and they wanna buy your stuff and or you have their experience of wine enhanced or if they're just an entrepreneur, They wanna connect with you. How can they find you or the business? Sure. So, definitely, the number one place is our website.
1 enthusiast.com, and and that was a labor of love that launched just in June. It's a new website that brings both of our businesses together. My sister's, media side and my retail side. So it's really a one stop shop to buy the things you need to enjoy wine to the fullest. And also learn a thing or 2.
So whether you're sort of in a relaxing moment and you wanna see what cool wines are out there, you can come to the site, or if you have a need for something in your home, you can come to the site as well. Love that. And I I think all my handles will be in the notes. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Facebook. I'm everywhere, and I I like to be I like to be accessible. So if anyone has any questions or if you want a special discount or something, You can certainly reach out.
That's awesome. I I I I hear what you're saying there. You get you get a, you know, special opportunity for listening to this show. So Thank you, Erica, for for being not only just here and sharing your story, but like you said, you've grown up in just an incredible environment, but yet you've become the strong queen that we got to interview here today, standing on your own. So your parents should be very proud, and I can only imagine the people that work with and for you are excited about that.
You're clearly a great leader, and you've shared, incredible things here with us today. So thank you for that blessings to you, your family, your business, everything that you guys are touching here. And, thank you for your time. Thank you, Chaz. Great to meet you. I had a lot of fun. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself. What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.
In fact, we are putting together 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the suit of excellence in those areas Chaz it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
So if that relates and and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you, sharp qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com. I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.