On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. My customers are making 7 figures. They're making 8 figures. So We're in the same room with him all the time and as soon as you go in there and you you feel inadequate, then the deal's done. Right? So Yeah. Maybe the 6 figure guys listening need to get around more 7 and 8 figures so they feel more adequate and then boom. Just changes.
You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars. From business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be. We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the real of the real on what it takes to build a successful business today.
We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along the way that give a true and accurate picture of the journey of success and how you too can get there. Through this dialogue, you will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and kings like today's guest. Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in. What's up? Entrepreneurs across the world, Gathering the Kings podcast, Chaz, Wolf.
My guest this week, Cody McKinley, I'm excited for you listen to this one because not only does this guy have a great beard, but he's got a great business, a great outlook on life, and just his perspective that he Chaz, I think that, everything that he breaks down from everything from his story or where he comes from to literally how they dial in what it is that they offer people and at such a high value, that he separates himself.
He separates his service from everyone else in the industry, and he shares with you how he does it. Grab that pen and paper. It's about to go down. Alright, everybody. Gathering the Kings Chaz Wolfe. I'm your host. Today, we've got Cody McKinley. What's up, dude? Another bearded fella. Coming to the table. Welcome, man. Appreciate you. Hey, Jess. Thanks for having me. You got a nice beard yourself. Keep growing. You'll get big enough soon.
You know, it's I love that perspective because, I I am usually, the one in the room where guys are like, man, dude, good beard. I have been out bearded only a couple of times, and you've got me out bearded by, like, 5 x. Well, you know, the version of clipping it. Right? That's right. That's a whole lot easier, you know, just keep just let it grow. Dude, what kind of business do you have? So we run a construction business specializing in outdoor living, So patios, pools, pavers, landscaping.
We do roofing windows and siding because we have to and landscape and irrigation because it kinda fits the whole package. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got some things in there that I heard you say that you really loved and some things that you kinda just do to make it a one stop shop. Right. Exactly. So we we define ourselves as exterior general contractors, a design build management firm. So we've got designers, engineers Chaz are ready to go.
We like to push the boundaries, and we like to make cool stuff. My favorite life of customers, it was not cool. We don't wanna do it. That's awesome. Define to me what a cool project. Like, give me give us an example of, like, one that you've recently done, maybe. Recent one come to mind. We did a 1200 square foot patio on the back of person's house on 5 acres.
Wow. 2 covered structures, burglar in the middle, fireplace, steps, then it's gonna have landscaping, really deck the whole yard out and it just it's big, but it feels appropriate on a five acres above land. That's incredible. I mean, I my wife and I just moved in to our home. We've been building here for about 15 months. The whole deal is 15 acres, but I've got 2 homes on the other corners that we rent out, and then we built here in the middle.
And so, yeah, like, everything you just described in the backyard, maybe with a pool to go along with, like, that would be incredible. Right now, it's just dirt. You need a total package. Right? You're gonna have shade. Gonna have something to stand on, something to do, something to cook on, and then you gotta ask a greenery. Dude, it's like you've done this before. Only once or twice. I love it. I love it.
Okay. So, as you were commenting offline that you've listened to a couple of my shows, and I just so appreciate that. And you've been kinda following along, but before we kinda get into your history and start really giving some of these guys and gals, some of your nuggets At this stage, why keep pushing? Because I know you're I know you're at the 7 figure plus mark Mhmm. Just from conversations, and you've got a great team.
You've got designers, and you've got folks on your staff but, like, why do you keep pushing? Why do you show up every day? At this point, it's definitely legacy. It's it's changing the name or for the what our kids have behind us. Right? Wow. You know, because my my dad and his dad were in construction for a long time, and they never really got out of the the crowd states. It never got past the next project, the next task, the next brick, if you Wolfe. It never really became business owners.
And I think at this point, I'm doing this 1 for the family piece and 2 for the customers. There's a lot of bad contractors out there, and it's it's our job to let them not have a bad experience. Does that make any sense? Yeah. I love that. I I love the legacy piece with family too. I mean, that's huge driver for me. I think we chatted about that, on our previous call, but to build something that's never been in your family before.
What a what a weighty thing, but It doesn't feel like weight, really. It feels like it it it feels you. At least it is for me. I mean, right now, it feels it still feels like a dream. I mean, we're coming on to year 5.
And it just we've we've chatted about this number of, companies that get to a 1,000,000 in revenue, that percentage, and then how small it is and and I'm sure Chad will share that statin a second but like how small that is and how it didn't feel Like, it took that much effort to get there. Just doing the one right next thing. Right? Yeah. I love that. Well, I'm gonna carry that in Chaz theme.
The the one right next thing, I'm gonna carry that into your story here because I know you've made a lot of good decisions. But you made some bad ones along the way as we all have. And so let's start with that. Let's start with where did business start for you? Like, what was the next right step for you in getting either this business started, or did you start a diff different business before? Like, where was the beginning for you?
The beginning for me, believe it or not, was the restaurant industry. I have I have a culinary degree. I ran a restaurant for about 5 years I ran a Wolfe foods for 5 years after Chaz, which taught me retail and customer service. Yeah. And then this business was born out of not having a good contractor experience. So I had a home. I wanted to extend my patio. I called around. I got the the normal experience that everyone gets. One guy's late. The next guy's dirty.
And then the last guy is just angry. Just Yeah. Just mad. I'm like, bro, it's America. Do whatever you want. But, I realized there was a niche there, and we could buy customer service with construction background. And here we are. Yeah. And so what you've what you've got is an experience now. Right. Just like a fine dining or even Wolfe foods. I mean, whole that's a that's an experience. You don't go to Wolfe Foods on accident. You go there because you know what you're what you want.
Alright. So That's a little bit of the journey as far as, like, maybe how it started. But inside, like, in essence, like, the folks listening, they're the 6 figure mark. We know Chaz. But you wanted to create something for the customer, but then you had this background of, like, management and and experience. Why did you think that you even, like, could run a business. I mean, you Chaz been running a business for someone else, but, like, tell me the gap between, like, okay.
This I see the market. I see the opportunity to I want to be a business owner. Oh, man. I think it just came down to, not one to work for somebody else after a while. Think that's where the initial jump was. Like Naturally. You know, because if you live in corporate world for a while, there starts to be policies Chaz come out where you're like, why are we doing this? This is like the strangest, honest policy, especially if I'm running successfully right now. Why downplay.
So then you you shift over and you said maybe I put us on my own. And then it just happened kind of by accident. Honestly, it was it was almost an accident. Like, I did my own patio extension. I posted on Facebook, right, just Wow. To my friends. K. My friend of ours is solid. She hired me to do a little project for her, and I was like, wait. Maybe there's Golden East Hills, and that was just like the the turning point right there.
It was a very state like, accidental, organic process of starting the business. Yeah. I was able to start it on the side, and that's what I encourage anyone Yeah. That's just starting out to do is keep your day and then on the weekends, figure it out. And if you like it and it becomes not work, then then run. Right? I love Chaz. And and you're so true. I think that that's that's excellent advice.
So if if you're listening right now and you are still working somewhere else and you've got your little side gig, that's okay. You're in the right spot, but how do they go from that to then leaving the job? There's they're not seven figures yet, but but then they're, like, you know, how did you go from, you know, one little side job of your friend to, okay, maybe I should consider leaving my job. Advertising. So advertising was a big play there. In the construction world, there's something Wait.
So you you paused and you spent money I paused and I spent money. That's right. I signed up with a home advisor at the time. And and they're rough. They're rough. Okay. But if you're new and starting out and kinda cheap and you're aggressive, you'll get some jobs with them. So we jumped from there and took a little running lead and then outsourced a different advertising company. Wow. Okay. So I'd I'd I'd there's so much gold in what you just said.
I wanna try to extrapolate it for the for the listener. So number 1, you you paid attention to an experience that you had that didn't go well. And so you you you did it yourself, You posted, you did a little side job. I think most people listening can relate to that, especially if they're a contractor. That's probably how they started their business at some point was let me do it myself. And then, friends and family, and then that just kinda grew a little bit.
But the problem really is is that they stay right there. Right? The friends, family, and and they leave their job, maybe. And so maybe they're doing 6 figures, but they can never break the mold of more because The next step is I have to now at scale, fill the pipeline. I have to become a salesperson. I need to get leads. I need to close jobs, and I need to do more of that, which for you, you said HomeAdvisor. There's other services out there that can generate leads.
But for any business, you need you need leads, and then you know, and you know how to sell the jobs. And so would you say for you, like, that skill set is what allowed you to, like, fast forward, or was it just Did you know how to do that just because you had worked in other businesses? Like, how did you know that? So, yes, that was an option because I'm naturally good at marketing myself or marketing people. But then I'm also, information junkie. If I wanna learn about it, I learn all about it.
So Got it. Podcast, Facebook groups, I stumbled into a group called the Contractor Fight. I will shamelessly plug them in this. And there's gentleman there named Tom Reber that does a lot of free content. It talks about you need sales. You need blood. You need to to market. Here's how you market. You know, here's what you need to charge, stop feeling guilty, stop doing it for a cheap price. Right.
And then that propelled me into, I said, I've got got in the group, but I said, hey, you know, who do I advertise with? It's not HomeAdvisor. Because while HomeAdvisor is cheap to start out with, there's a very bad side to them, hence the lawsuit they're going through right now. So I got turned on to a company called Webrunner. They're out of Canada. And those dudes changed the game.
I would say Jump ahead to your next little segment, that is like one of the best things we ever did was hire those people right there. Love it. And so what do they do for you? They started doing Facebook and Instagram ads at an intense rate, and it hadn't really been done here in the Dallas area before. Not at that level. And the response was crushing. Like, the lead cost was low. The customers were eager, and it was like right at the right time. Okay. So for the listener, you're taking notes.
This is really, really important. So what Cody has given to you is what, in essence, you you break down as a strategic growth in your marketing department, but I'm gonna I'm gonna put it in layman's terms. He talked about getting a a lead source that was done for you. Okay. That's what HomeAdvisor, Thumbtack, some of these other, like, places. So you go to them. They've done the being, and then they give you the opportunity at the job.
Or in in any business, there's a lead there's a lead source somewhere that's like this. K? So you go to someone who's doing this, you pay a premium for them to do it. It's no problem. It's not a scam. You just need to know how to get those jobs. Or those clients if you're not in the contracting world. But eventually, what you need to focus on is not necessarily replacing them, although you Chaz, is to go to the place where you now are getting your own leads.
And that's what Cody is talking about. He hired a company that could run his ads. It's not a home advisor ad or a whatever whatever company that you've decided to hire for your marketing ad. It's a Cody's business ad. It's a McKinley Construction. What's what's the name of your your outdoor company? So it's a McKinley Construction Management or MCM for short. Okay. I was I was trying to play out the MCM. I'm, like, trying to figure out what that was. So MCM ad. Right?
And so as a as a consumer, I'm seeing MCM, MCM, MCM, and MCM, whether I click on the ad and generate a lead or later see a truck. Now we're talking about impressions. And now we we're talking about Cody having omnipresence where, yeah, maybe he's still a home advisor because there's there's a couple of things he can do that maybe. But then he's also over here, and he's also getting his own leads. He's also on Facebook. He's also on Instagram. He now is on the radio.
Now he's got a truck driving by, and that's what makes him feel to the customer as this well oiled machine everywhere, and he's remembered. That's that's an essence what your marketing has to get to And I know that you didn't say all that, but that's an essence of what you were you were saying. Right? That's exactly what I was saying. And and that's part of the reason I have the beard. Right? It's a memorable looking. Right? So they see the ads. They see the YouTube videos.
Part of it's about content. So we've got a whole YouTube channel called Coffee And Construction with Cody where it's literally like little 1 or 2 minute videos. I'm just standing in the cup of coffees answering a question like who answers our telephones. When do we work? What's next after the permit gets approved? Like these little, they ask you answer questions.
Yeah. And just given the customer knowledge, but the more knowledge they have, the more comfortable they are, then they recognize you and you've made the brand which is what you're creating. Yep. Personable. And that's the whole thing, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So, I mean, if we we could end the podcast right now, and they should already have multiple pages of notes of things that you've told them to do. So thank you for that.
Let's go to you you gave us the good decision of leaning in basically to a provider that could help you brand yourself and generate leads. What was the bad decision that you've made so far that was just oh. Yeah. That's that's easy one. So, with the same company web runner, we decided that we were gonna go after storm damage, right? Everyone thinks they can get roof rich when a storm comes through, and it's Texas, and there's hail storms every 5 years on average.
Well, we put a bunch of money to advertising that. And then guess what didn't happen? No hailstorms. So we dug ourself in a default with a marketing budget that was too big. That didn't work out and we had to dig our way back out of it by focusing on a service that is not weather specific. Weather related services have to be ancillary unless your weather related everywhere all the time. And you're just going weather relation to weather relation.
So I'm gonna translate that to each individual business because, obviously, I can't make the decision to go after hailstorms in my businesses. Right. But what I do hear you saying is hone in, niche down. Focus on really what it is that we do Wolfe. And pour the effort into Chaz. Not necessarily that you can't have roofing as a service or that you couldn't help somebody if a hailstorm does come around. Or that you wouldn't even send out your sales team door knock and maybe you would.
It doesn't mean that you wouldn't. It just means that what do we do? How do we do it well? Why are we different than everybody else and then hone in, especially with the marketing budget? That's exactly right. You know, it's that better myself. Very concise because I said you have there. Wolfe, yeah, you're right. You gotta stay in where your niche is, where it's fun for you. And then, yeah, tell our customers all the time. We're not here for your first project or the first sale.
We're here for the 3rd sale or the 6th sale down the road. And when something happens to you or your neighborhood, We're the first ones you call for if we don't do a referral. So, you know, you're not getting host. Exactly. Yeah. Especially if you've built it off of the experience that you're talking about, which is they can trust you.
You know, for you contracting, that makes perfect sense because there's so many guys and gals out there that just don't know how to really run a a successful contract in business, but that's that's how it is in most businesses. It's not that hard to differentiate yourself as long as you do. So Cody, I'm curious. When it comes to decisions, we've talked a lot about them. Do you have a process or a discipline when you try to make decisions?
So that way the weather related marketing budget doesn't happen again. I would like to lie and say yes, but that is no. Not yet. I That's honest. A lot on feeling still. Luckily, my business partner, he's very analytical and looks at the numbers a lot. He writes the numbers and says, here's the numbers, right? But a lot of it is just gut related, with with hiring, with partnering with marketing companies with adding another automation except to put yourself in how the the customers feel.
You know? Because we're big. We're big in tech and we're big in no paper. That's our stuff we like. So if it makes it faster, if it makes customer experience better, we're in. If it makes the environment a little better, we're in as well. And what you said kind of underneath that, is you know what you want. You know, what you want to deliver to your experience, for your customers.
And so you were kinda letting those be your guiding factors, even though you're using your gut, that that's in essence your boundary. I love how to you, even said your your partner is analytical. You're a little bit more of the gut, kinda go to. Because you do need numbers, but, man, numbers sometimes aren't how you make decisions. Sometimes you just need to trust your gut and you build the gut instinct by just giving it a go, like repeatedly, just build a history of making decisions.
Some aren't gonna be good. And you try to learn from them. But you've obviously built a relationship with yourself around good decisions because otherwise, how could you trust your gut? Right? Right. And you you need those swings. You get there and try a bunch of times. Right? That's that's my favorite thing I tell my sales guys when they're coming on. I Chaz teach you theory all day. I teach you terms all day. You just need to add bats. Right? It's baseball season right now.
You need to add bats. Right? Get out there and take some swings. And hopefully, you'll knock one out of the first ten out of the park and you're good to go. Yeah. Because once you've seen it done, now you're like, okay. Bet. I got it. I know how to do it now. That's awesome, man. Okay. So I love just how natural all of our interactions have been just because I think that's a superpower that you have that that maybe the audience can't quite pick up on.
And so, I'm gonna try to just give him a little bit of feeling on this. But when he was talking about, like, the experience and and recognizing, like, what he had experienced on the patio, beforehand, like, everything that you've done with me Cody has been, like, I can just tell you're a real guy, like, that you're giving it to me straight, that you're that it is what it is. And so I just think that that translates into your team, into your customers Chaz you're talking to them.
So I just wanted to to communicate that to the audience because I think that We miss that sometimes as business owners, like who we are, obviously, to our team or to our customers and just being real, just being authentic, Chaz doesn't necessarily give us permission to do whatever we want. It just means us, like, if I can just be straight, it usually builds, like, a super honest piece. I'm kinda going back to where you said, like, it felt like it was super easy to build your 7 figures.
And I think that's why, man. You got a superpower of just being being you. So I know that sounds a little maybe a little cheesy, but I think that that's part of it. I think you're not far off. I've never met a person I couldn't talk to. Whoever met a person that I felt inadequate to talk to. So, you know, my customers are they're making 7 figures. They're making 8 figures.
So We're in the same room with them all the time and as soon as you go in there and you you feel inadequate, then the deal's done. Right? So Yeah. Maybe the 6 figure guys listening need to get around more 7 and 8 figures so they feel more adequate. And then boom, just changes. Yeah. Everything you just said changes everything when you get into a new room, a new way of thinking, agitation of other people and and in a good way. Right? You can agitate each other and and spur each other on.
Okay. Speed round. You ready, dude? Ready. In your business. If you could only track one metric, what would it be? I'm gonna have to give it 2. I have to give you 2. I'm gonna say one Number 1 is net profit. Number 2 is sales. Sales here is all, and net profit pays all. So that's why I would have to say it's a two pieceer. I love the answer, the the why behind the what? Sales cures all and net profit pays all. I love that. We're gonna have to throw that up as one of your quotes. So good.
So good. Okay. What book would you recommend that a 6 figure owner read trying to get to that said Figramar. I would say that anyone right now should read. If they haven't, read the Bible first. Start in the gospels. If you wanna jump into a business book, I would say Rich Dad. Both are excellent, recommendations, and I couldn't help, but think, man, you're you got the John Baptist beard going on over there. I just can't get away from your beard. You know? Bro, do you, you have young kids.
Right? Yeah. Dude, have you read the Storybook Bible? We have been reading the Storybook Bible from time to time. We have to jump from different different titles, you know, You know, I have this idea. I think I'm gonna I think we're gonna launch it here pretty quick, but I'm gonna go live with my kids reading the storybook bible every night. We do it anyway.
Just because I think other people Wolfe wanna chime in, but I'm telling you what the picture of John the Baptist in that it's it's a red beard. That's why I'm like, oh my gosh, dude. Your beard. His is way more scraggly than yours. You keep you keep Chaz better better care, but, we call him John Johnny the Baptist, as we're reading through the storybook Bible. Anyway, okay. So do you intentionally network or mastermind with other business owners? Cody? I do.
Yes. Absolutely. And I'm currently looking for my newest group to land in, to get to the next next spot here. And also hunting around organically for like, like a golf course or country club or something. Right? Yeah. A lot of those guys, they make pretty good money for the most part. So Yeah. You're just identifying who you need to be around, for clients and or mindset. I love it. I love it. Okay. And so if you lost it all, final question.
If you lost it all, there was no more outdoor spaces to design. What would you do? Sales. How so and what so? Anything, ice to Estimos, whatever. You know, like, there's always money it sells. It's the fastest, quickest money you can make. Right. There's a skill set there that clearly you feel confident in. What would you say as an entrepreneur who's listening right now?
When it comes to sales specifically, because if you're gonna go right to sales, if things fell apart, that's exactly where I would go to as far as, like, a career, if I wasn't gonna open up a new business, But why, though? Like, what what about sales specifically? Do they need to know now inside their business before it goes all away? From straight from your brain to help them now. I mean, it's it's unlimited income. Right? The more you sell, the more you make.
That's the only job in my company that has a limited income. My sales guys to make whatever they want in a given day. I give them leads, but they go out in doorknob. They can hustle people and and get more more in. Right? And they have their certain photos. And when they hit that, they get their bonus. Their bonus is unlimited for a reason. So they can just do what they need to do. So anybody listening, you need to get good at sales, or you need to partner with someone that's good at sales.
1 of the 2. Right? But if you partner, you're gonna have to listen to them because a sales guy's a little crazy. So That's so true. We sales guys. We're crazy. Okay. So so sales is everything. You said it a few minutes ago. Sales here is all. And so for for these guys listening, your your your takeaway here really is if they can just learn sales or partner with someone who understands sales, inevitably, their business is gonna get 7 figures. Right.
Because then they can give rid of all the money problem problems. Right? You need a better CRM. You write a check. You need another truck. You write a check. You need another permit. You write a check. I mean, You can then fix all the rest of your problems. You can find someone to run your operations. Find someone to rebuild your website. Find some more marketing. All with sales skills, Cody? Because that translates to money. Right? Goes back to money.
You have a good I assume if they're listening, they've got a good product. They just need to sell more of their product. Whether that be edible arrangements or whether that be heard of us and you just saw more of them. That's right. That's right, dude. I I've loved your mindset and all of the value that you've given. If someone, listening today wants to connect with you further and and get to know you, how would they reach you? They would first check the website out.
It's gonna be mcmithintx.com to learn more about us, go to our YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn and TikTok channels. Yes. We have all of them. And then if you want some specific questions, email info atmcm hyphentx.com. I love it, dude. Thanks for being so open. And even just the fact that you're on all those channels, just tells me, and I'm sure the audience that just trying to help as many people as possible.
Obviously, awareness is good for your business, but, man, just the people that you can connect with, you're helping people all the day every day. And so thanks for being here helping us today. We just absolutely appreciate that. And so what's the next thing for you outside of the business, or is it is it is it another business? I just I just have this this thought in my brain of you not being done. So the next thing is real estate and more specifically beach houses. I'm a big beach guy.
I like that arena. There's constant maintenance in that land and a very interesting BNB style market you Chaz do. We'll also flag the long term as well. So that's where I think we're going next, then probably custom home somewhere in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. I love it, dude. So much going on. We wish you absolutely nothing but success in in all of those things, including your your pergolas, But thanks for being here, man, on the show. You've been absolutely incredible.
Yeah, just the the listeners today, connect with Cody if you if you got if you got some good stuff here because, this guy has been just an absolute pleasure to to chat with even just these couple times. So thank you, Cody, for being here on the show, my Of course. Thanks for listening to gathering the Kings. We hope you got a ton of value today and learned a thing or 2 taking your business to 7 figures and beyond.
If you desire more and want a community around you to help you get there, I want you to go to Gathering the Kings dot com. That's Gathering the Kings dot com, and I want you to apply for our next becoming a king 90 day intensive. We are extremely exclusive by nature as a group. What that means that we're really wanting only the entrepreneurs who take their business and targets super serious to apply. So if that's you, you think you got what it takes to level up your business.
I want you to go to gathering the king's dot com and apply, and we will see you on the other side.