On today's episode of Gathering The Kings. Guy stands up and says you're an idiot. My first thing is, okay. I don't disagree. Let's solve that problem. You know what I mean? So I think other people may have got become mad, you know, and defended themselves in a social manner. I didn't interested me. I don't know who this guy is. He's probably an idiot too. What do I care? I just wanna know what I did wrong.
And if this guy's willing to stand up, it'd be brave enough to tell me that in He's probably brave enough to to go to lunch and to continue to educate me. And it was as was true. A guy's complete jerk turned out to be a great friend of mine. Still friends with him. He's still a complete jerk. Love got it yet. And, he was one of my my absolute, first mentors in in real estate, still a friend of mine today. What's up everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, Gathering the The podcast. I'm back with you.
Another real estate king here on the stage. My brother Bill Hamm. How you doing? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. I'm I'm thankful that you're here. We were just digging deep on some Blue Ridge Mountain real estate and history. We were just up there as, gathering the Kings mastermind group and spent some time in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Your family has had a cabin up there or a beautiful lake house for a long time. We were just reminiscing over the beauty up there.
Yeah. Beautiful play. Appalachian is a beautiful, beautiful part of the world up there in Blue Ridge, and all that. Yeah. Yeah. My family has had, my my grandfather bought, a a piece of dirt up on a a powered lake, a powered dam lake up there. I think we're almost almost 80 years ago now. And that was back when, you know, the survey was the old tree to the rock to to the lake, to the to the road. You know, that was a survey. And and I'm I'm actually not kidding.
So we we literally have the old survey that states to the old stone of the rock, to the we had to have a reserve aid at some point in time, but we literally have the old original, from 1940 something. I think something or The like that. Yeah. So cool, man. Well, Bill, obviously, you're in real estate, but tell us a little bit, about the business. You've got kinda several things going on. Inside of the real estate umbrella. Tell us a little bit about what you do.
Yeah. Multi family owner operator. I have been in the multifamily space for nineteen and a half years. I'm like a four year old. Right? I'm counting the The, almost 20 years now. And, 2005, I was a pilot flying airplanes. Realized Chaz probably wasn't the best employee in the whole wide Wolfe. Saw friends of mine out flipping houses. Right? And and I'm I'm thinking these friends of mine are idiots. Right? They're they're they're no different. We're all at the bar last night.
We're all doing the same thing. Right? And they got up and and went on and flipped houses. And I went out to work. And I realized these these friends of mine who are just normal people were making what I was making working all year in 1, maybe 2 transact and, you know, and I'm thinking, okay. Something's wrong with this picture.
So I spent about a year just studying, reading, you know, rich dad brought out all the the basics, right, and went through all that stuff that finally got up courage and did my very first deal, which was a duplex. Duplex was cash flowing 300 bucks a month. Like, nothing broke. Right? And I had saved up a whopping $10,000, and I turned in my 2 week notice and went into real estate full time. So Come all in. Go and try that at home. I'm not recommending. Anybody go out and do that?
I'm just saying, hey. I was twenty eight years old at the time. No family. No debt. No kids. So there's my, and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was just right for me. I needed, I I realized I was a lazy person. My nature still am. And easily distracted in ADD and all the normal stuff. Right? So what I did was to figure out a way to sort of hold myself accountable by burning the bridge back home. Alright? So that bridge was the job, and I kinda let the light of the burn.
Let a light of the fire shine the way forward. But, again, I don't, you know, don't recommend everybody hear this and and get too motivated to run out and get your job. It was a very long hard road, a lot of success, a lot of failure, really had to tighten the The, you know, again, no family, no kids, and that sort of stuff. So but that that's how I got here 20 years later, better for us. You're still here. I appreciate that.
And, also, there's a little bit of a snapshot of Gathering started in real estate, you know, younger. I was, not as young as 28 when I got started in real estate, but I always Kings had thought back about I had known about real estate at 22. Gosh. I just I feel like I would just, you know, would have been in that position that you just described. No kids. No no debt. No no functioning anything else. I could just go all in. But you know what?
But let me ask you, you know, today, not too hard for a twenty two year old or a twenty eight year old to get started in business 20 years ago. It was almost impossible. I sat at the kids table. I mean, everybody in the real estate demographic was in their fifties male and white. I mean, and I walked into it, and that's what it would. And now I teach, and I I do lectures and seminars. And I stand on that stage, and it's a room of of complete you know, just diversity.
I mean, you don't know who you're looking at. You got young people and old people Chaz all walks of life now. So, yeah, nowadays, it's much, much easier for for younger people without that credibility get in. Hey, man. When you and I were a little younger, it was tough. So if you're our age, don't beat yourself up for not getting in. You were twenty 2. It was difficult being young at time yet. Not so much today, though. Yeah. I wanna explore that because you're right.
When I was twenty four years old, I was buying my 1st franchise, And I remember the landlord, giving me a hard time saying, it wasn't even with with me. It was the the business owner that I was buying it from. He was the landlord asked him. How's this guy gonna be able to pay for the rent? He's twenty four years old. It's $5000 a month retail rent. Right? And they got it's like, wait a second. 20 four has nothing to do with it.
If this is an existing business that's been here forever, why why are you what what is this conversation about? So I'm with you. I expressed or or, experienced Chaz. How is that different today? I I'm already projecting a couple thoughts in my mind, but how is it different for the guy who's seeing right now? He's 22. I think because we've had a paradigm shift in the education in the world and certainly in the financial education in the Wolfe. There's so much more available now than there was.
That, you know, we didn't have podcasts. We didn't have people like you and I just sharing information for anybody that just wanted to come and and be a part of The. And and there wasn't as much giving freely and things like that. So I think we've got a little bit of a paradigm shift there too. Young people are so, so much more into their financial future and into their well-being now than they were when we were 22, 24, 28.
Because I remember back then being at that age, you know, all of my friends were not worried about investing and stocks and crypto. They were worried about the next date, the next dinner, the next party, the next whatever. It was a much, much more experiential lifestyle. And so what I, in my opinion, by just being a, you know, an economist here is watching the young people change in the way they interact with the world.
And so I think we have so many more young people that are business savvy today than we did back then. Which is good and bad.
You know, it also means there's a lot more dollars inside of the investing world now, which means scarcity of asset in a, you know, compression of cap rate in multifamily, it means you're gonna see things like crypto, maybe go up and down, stocks go up and that right because there's a lot more money coming into these markets now through young people back when it was our parents and you had to wear, you know, blue suit and tie and work at IBM for this stuff to make sense.
You know, it's just not the world we live in anymore. I think it's a very big paradox shift. That's my opinion anyway. Yeah. I would agree with you. It's the information age. Right? Like, we we can get anything we need including, you know, I love I love a lot of the stuff because we're both in industries where we help other people. Right. And it's like, look, you can get anything that you want for free online somewhere.
It's just a matter of whether it aligns with you and or whether that person can work with you long term through a YouTube video. And so there's this you can find the information and you and you should remember going through The stage in my twenties, like, I couldn't afford. Well, at least that was my belief at that time Chaz I couldn't afford to to invest in myself in that way. So but but what I did, what I could afford was time. So I went to YouTube.
That doesn't mean that I haven't spent a lot of money since The. On books or seminars or coaches or programs or groups. It just means that we're in the information age. You can get it wherever you want. I think it's a big part of it. Chaz that dovetails right into a lot of what I teach people. You know, I I teach multifamily and The I teach investing and all Chaz. And I I have paid product and all that kind of fun stuff. And I tell everybody, don't sign up. Don't give me money.
Don't sign up with The coach. Don't sign up for any kind of high level program or any kind of mentor until you've exhausted the cheap information. Don't think writing checks is the solution. I assure you, 20 years of this business, it is not. And I'm in the business of teaching people, and I'm telling you it's not the solution. Look, go to all these podcasts, the books, the the weather, spin your hustle before you spend your dollar. Right?
Once you've exhausted all The free information, you're gonna have a pretty good idea of what you're trying to do, what information is, who you need to work with, who has the right information. And I just see so many people that just come out of left field. They say, hey. I I hear about investing in multifamily. Therefore, I'm gonna write a big giant check to this group here for $50,000. And Right. It's a waste. Don't do that.
It's, you know, books or 20 bucks, you know, just buy some books, podcasts. Why do you guys spend all that big And I'm in the business of taking your money teaching you, and I'm telling you, don't do it. Yeah. It's like, it's like that moment where the the student is ready. And so then the teacher shows up, And so it doesn't mean that it, like, okay.
If if you've spent the money on in, you know, a course or whatever, There can still be value there, but the reality of it is that that Bill's given to you is just know the season that you're in. And it's okay that you know, maybe something's a little bit further down the The. And and Chaz information, although good, and you can still apply it. You can still write it down. You can still keep the information for later. But a lot of it is just gonna go right over your head.
So get the basics is what I'm hearing. If you've never played golf, you can run right out and hire some Kings high level golf coach, or you could just go over the range and hit the balls for a little while The just Kings of warm up. Sure. Is that coach gonna take you to the next lap? Absolutely. But you would you would be much, much more prepared going to that teacher if you had some some momentum under your belt. You Wolfe get so much more out of working with somebody.
If you've got the basics and the basics are what we're getting in giving you right here on this show. Right? You have all your other episodes. Know, books, things of that nature, just just stay here and then then call us up when you're ready to go to that next level. But Yeah. Hustle $4 is always my advice. Well, I think I think it's authenticity. Like, if why would why would two people who who sell information, be be telling you not to buy information It's because it's real.
That, you know, like, it's what we both did. So why would we not why would we not share that with other people? You said you spent a year really before you did anything major studying. And and, you know, I could I Chaz say the same thing about my sales career. It took me years of just self study and then also The paying for stuff. On the business side, it took me years of I just hit my head against the wall probably too long.
In fact, that was the guy that I didn't even need your I didn't need your suggestion of doing the free thing first. I did the free thing too long. I I tried to I tried to milk it for for as much as it was two times over. Yeah. There's there's 2 there's both types. You know, I see people that have the, you know, I don't need anybody teach me anything. I'm gonna figure it all out on my own attitude Kings of person. I was a little more towards that. And then I see the absolute off opposite.
The person who hides in boot camps and hides in class and hides behind books and just keeps thinking The next Chaz the next lecture. The next boot camp is gonna be the 1 in the no. No. No. No. You gotta take action at some point in time. Yeah. Boot camp, folks. I can say that's great. You gotta take that out on the street. You cannot hide in class. So I think the the one extreme is I don't need anybody to teach me. I'm gonna figure it all out. Yeah. You're right. You will.
And and here's what I always tell Kings, buddy, you're gonna get an education. It just depends on how much it's gonna cost you and where you get it. Yeah. It'll cost you. And you will get it. Those 2 are guaranteed. Right? Is it on the street? Is it through the the gauntlet of of a trial and error? You know, hey, that's what you and I did. We learn. We've got a lot of scars, got the t shirt.
Yeah. That's an expensive route, you know, or you could just go straight off into classroom and spend tens of $1000 learning for some and never take action. That's just as bad. So I say, you know, kind of from 20 years of this, right, it's like, oh, learn easy stuff and then then get you a coach. Go to the next level. That's the best method, but don't do either extreme. You know, it might be. Yeah. Yeah. Kings your golf analogy, it was a, I don't know, 5 or maybe 7 years or so ago.
And I, I'm 65, so I had to have a, you know, specific golf club set made. And my my good buddy has played forever. Like, from since, you know, he was 3, but I've never played with him up until this moment. He finally was like, hey. Just, you know, like, just come see how you like it. And, anyway, The 1st year, I did pretty well. I'm an athlete and second year, I came back and thinking I'm just all hot stuff. And, obviously, I I, you know, shanked everything because I was overthinking everything.
But I knew in that moment exactly what Bill's saying. I knew that, like, okay. I've got the basics. I did the 1st year. Now The round 2. I'm I'm starting to overthink it. What I need to do is go to the next level. So what that meant for me at that time was, okay, I know I need a coach. I wasn't willing at that time to put that time money effort into a Wolfe, ex experience or or or or something. Sure it cost you some money. Yeah. Well, which is fine.
And and regardless of of what the I just wasn't for me at that time. I was building businesses. And so it's the same concept, though, is that you can you can fumble for a period of time. That could be 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 years, but at some point, you realize, okay. Like, I got the basics. I got the free version. I had my buddy with The me the 1st year helping me with the basics. Right. But now in order to really go to the next level, I have to I I actually do need to invest now.
I actually do need to take the time, money, effort to to go to the next level. Yeah. And you don't you don't want to hire a coach, just read you the instruction manual. You can get that on your own, and that's to say, you know, read the books, read all that stuff in your when you're ready to come to someone like me or yourself, we're here to really help you apply the information in real time.
You don't wanna go spend a a lot of money signing up for a coach and then just having them sit there and just read chapter 3 to you. I mean, you you got on your own, you know. And then come to that coach when you're ready to really work on that swing, you know, not when you're just being told what golf is. I mean, you know, come on and get that on the ground. Yeah. So that's, you know, take it to that little first and then look us up.
I love it. 13 minutes in, and we're already, like, deep into it, man. Let's let's rewind here a little bit. I wanna know, like, the depths of who Bill is? Like, why does Bill do what he does? What what's the burning desire every day when you wake up? Because 20 years in successful. Why The keep going? Yeah. You know, I I I have to admit. I hate that question. Not because it's a bad question because I hate my answers to it. They don't have any great interest The that.
You know, I I just do what I kinda do every day. So I I don't have any high level goals. Right? So I I am not trying to be the richest person in the world. Take over all the real estate in the world. When I was younger, I did have more of that that point of view. What I've come to realize is that money comes with a diminishing marginal utility. Right? You got a buck. That's a very valuable dollar. You got a $1,000,000. It's not Right?
But every dollar earned comes with one pain in the ass factor. And that never diminishes, right, it is always a pain in the ass to get another dollar. So I kinda had to stop in life and say, alright. Well, how many dollars do I need? What's excess and how much pain in the ass am I willing to sort of deal with?
And so after 20 years, I've figured out about how much business I need to do in a in a year and a month and a week or whatever, you know, to be to be good, to maintain a very free life style. I don't have yachts and jets and stuff like that. Don't need them. Not interested. Right? So that's Kings of my ultimate goal is to just continue staying where I'm at, which is doing the right amount of business that keeps me happy yet keeps me free.
And so I I would also kind of offer the point of view that extreme wealth might not be the freedom you think it is. You know, so I would really kind of say stop and sit down and ask yourself, what is it you really want out of you know, and is it is it, an appearance? You know, is it a social thing? Are you interested in having a status in society fine? Are you interested in, you know, material objects? Are you interested in travel, free The with all these different things. Right?
And so for me, I've Kings boiled it down to more of travel, free time, less physical objects, more experience, and I have a lot less work. You know, I just kinda like working that much. So, yeah, that's that's me. That's what I wanna do. I just wanna keep mentioning that. You can't hate to answer all that. I can't hate that answer. You can't hate that answer. That's that's you describe so clearly what it is that you want, which is, okay, well, that's why we do what we do.
Now whether whether we've come to grips with, do our actions line up with what it is that we say we want, Right. And that's what I just heard you say. You said, I've actually done the work of figuring out what I want. And is it is it a is it a jet? No. Is it a yacht? No. I I don't think that I we could we could go back and forth on whether that serves you or not. Right? Like, we can that's individual to how it defines. You know, how you're being served.
And so for you, like you said, you've got the marker of what it looks like. I also think that that's true too. Like, we all we all want this big number. And I think that we're after more. Like, it's really what it is. It's like, you have to define what that looks like for you. And what more might look like is just freedom is what I heard Bill say. More might look like winning. Like, that that's how I would describe it. Yes. Freedom, but I like winning more than freedom.
And, but but both of those are gonna be okay. Either way. Usually, you figure out what's right for you. And and don't let Facebook and everybody else and all the other images of all those sidewitz right for you. You know? I I hear this a lot because a lot of my students will come on and they go, oh, but I haven't done x amount of business. And I go on face and it seems like everybody's just doing all these wonderful things. What's wrong with me? Why am I not like them? It sees it.
Well, first of all, hold on. You know, that person might have been out there doing it for years before they did that one deal. And it's the first time they posted in the first deal in the fur, and it looks to you like everybody's successful except The. And I'll tell you that's probably not as true as you think it is. 1st of all, and second of all, who cares? You know, that good for them, you know, and and I have that's a jealousy. I kinda had to come to grips with in my life.
When I saw people that that just got lucky. You know? And they went on close some big deal and just hit it. And and I was out here working really hard, and my deal didn't go well. And I'm like, wait a minute. You know, I did all this work, and they just showed up like an idiot got left and let that stuff go. You know, I don't know. It's it's always an up and down thing. So I just just level that out. So, you know, don't ever try and engage your success against someone else's.
I think that's a big mistake we have in society. And so I would say just look more inside yourself and figure out what the reflection needs to be rather than look out here and say, what does someone else's reflection need to be for me and then figure out what you want and then work to get it The then knock it off for the rest of the time. At least that's my opinion.
Yeah. You're you're you're hitting on a principle that's really important, which is that, you know, that I gotta be okay with what it is that I want and not certainly the pressure of everything else and what everyone else is saying. Because, really, they don't care about you, really, at the end of the day. Yeah. And it's and that sounds a little harsh. It's, not that nobody cares about you, but generally speaking, you care about you, like, a 100 x. Yeah. That's true.
But Yeah. You care about you way more than anybody else cares about you. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So I guess my question is, how have you, I mean, you've you've got this even keel. Like, I'm not gonna let that bother me. It is what it is. They can have their opinion approach, which I, a 100% agree with. How have you practically gone to that level where you care about you and what it is that you actually want, maybe at that 100 x level like you should. Tolerating massive amounts of failure.
Massive massive massive amounts of screwing stuff up. Right? Everybody wants to talk about their success. Everybody wants to say, oh, I'm free because I succeeded, and I do, I was like, no. No. No. I'm free because I wrecked it, like, a lot. Right? And just kept going. I just kept dealing with it, and I kept going through it, and I kept learning. Right?
And I kept figuring it out, and I kept improving the model and never letting one of those failures kind of stop me from reinventing myself for anyone. And I've had some big ones. So, like, don't don't listen to us here and think that I'm, you know, we are somebody special. I was just a normal dude getting started. You know? And and I have lost big bucks. I've I've had foreclosures. I've not filed a bankruptcy, but I've come down close. You know, I mean, things like that. And now I'm fine.
Don't think that if you're having a hard time or you're failing or you can't pay your credit card this afternoon, you're all alone, and you're the only one. And all guys like Chaz and I just always he says, not sure. Not true. So it's really learning to deal with all those ups and downs and all those bad days until you finally get practice well enough that that you get there. You know, and it's it's another point I always put out. What is the definition of insanity?
And and I'll ask anybody sitting here. Chaz asked you that question. What do you think the definition of insanity is. Yeah. It's doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. What's the definition of practice? Keep, trying to get better. Do the same thing until you can get better. So practice is insanity. Right? Is that what you're trying to No. Not true. Me, Bill. You trapped me. Always do. Right? Not true. First comment, that is actually not the definition of insanity.
It's not even It is a statement and a quote from Einstein. Einstein said that it is not true. It's a quote from Einstein. Most people don't know this. I was wrong. He was wrong. And so people because he made that quote, and people now have kind of caught this meme of, oh, yeah, if I just do stuff over and over, I'm you create it. No. It's called practice. You're an athlete. You said yourself. You know? And so practice is the answer to ultimate success. Right? What does practice means?
It means screwing everything up until you stop screwing it up, right, and get better at it. Right? So so practice is not insane. Right, failing until you get it right is not insane. It's the absolute answer. And so when you ask me, how did I ultimately get to this mental point of view? I earned it. I earned it, earned it, earned it through through a lot of hard, trials and errors and and, you know, living life until I practiced it right. And so that's the key.
And and that's why I hate that comment that that, you know, insanity is doing the same thing until you get Kings. No. It is not. Stop. Yeah. That's good. It's good. And and you laid it out perfectly for the listener to receive courage. And I know we talked about that before The record, but it's like one of our missions here is just to transfer courage. It's like, okay. Well, so if that's real, what that means is is that behind every success story and we've heard this too.
This is cliche, but behind every success story, there's just a a road of failures. Right. But what does that look like? Okay. Well, that looks like practice. It looks like it doesn't look like necessarily a failure along the way. Right? Like, that's the difference. Every time hundreds of times now when I've said, you know, which I'll ask you here in a second. What's your failure or give me The?
Usually, the response is, well, you know, I've had a bunch of them, but I don't really see it as a failure. Well, it's because If you take the mindset that Bill just gave to you and you see it as practice, I'm expecting to fail or, like, the way I have to say it. Yeah. I I was like, look, I know I'm gonna fail. Can I hurry up and just do those? I wanna get them all out of the way. Right.
Yeah. If I'm gonna get punched in the mouth, go ahead and let's get that on away so we can get in the Kings here. I don't, you know, I wanna dance around this. So let's do it. You know? Let's just eat the frog and make it happen. Well, so give us give us a practical failure or a a practice moment for you. Oh, yeah. I get they're they're all failures, so I wouldn't sit here and say, oh, my failure's not failure. No. Everyone failed because they sucked and they hurt.
And they're horrible, but, you know, you're right. Yeah, I'd have to think, very first deal was a failure. If we're talking sort of real estate, I'll give you one there. You're a very first deal ever did that Duplex was a failure, turned out that, I had gotten seller financing on it. And, long story, but I Chaz paid about $43,000 for this duplex. I did all the math just like Robert Kiyosaki said. Right? It's cash flow and all that fun stuff. And I go to my very first real meeting.
And, of course, they're like, oh, there's no right hand if you did a deal. You know, I'm brand new to real estate. Not a meeting. I did a deal. You know? And, and and they're like, well, tell us about it. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yes. I did The. That's $43,000 for this duplex. And then I'm like, The, boy. And the guy stands like, oh, you're an idiot. You know? I'm like, okay. Now I'm about this big. Right? And then he goes, we're all paying, like, $20,000 on that street. You moron. Oh, god.
Hey. Chaz we go to lunch? And I and I think we got lunch because I was actually one of my first mentors, and, and I did. I paid about double what I should have on that that piece of real estate because I analyzed it from the income approach. I did not put the deal into context of comparable sale in the whole March says my very first very first deal was my very first mistake. A bigger one, I failed in a raise. I was doing a syndication on a a large property about 200 units.
And, I got arrogant, and I thought, that I had a presence and I was known and this Kings garbage. Like, I cocky. And I went around collecting business cards Kings business cards mean relationships. Boy, that was an expensive lesson. They do not. And so being arrogant, you know, I Kings thought, oh, I'm knowing people know who I am, and I wasn't following up. I wasn't really building out the relationships. I was collecting business cards, right, but not forming relationships.
And so the time goes on, I circle back around, and I'm calling all these people saying, hey. Do you now wanna invest? And they're all going, who are you again? How'd you get my number? Yep. That didn't go well. And so, oh, into that story, I wound up losing a $150,000 cash money in, earnest money and then deposit on the property because I could not get the the raise.
I failed. And I and I I got wiped out for a short amount of So that really sucked, but, hey, you know, fixed it, went on, moved on. But in that moment, it was larger than life. Right? And I have The attitude now. Hey, Norman. But you have it in that moment, I thought, man, I'm finished. You know, I'm the laughing stock of Atlanta. The the real shirts are never gonna talk to me again. Nobody's ever gonna show me a deal.
You know, and the number one lesson that I came away from that, nobody gave it to him. How wouldn't that important? Nope. Really wasn't that important. I was that important in my head, but not anybody. Money's green memories are short. Thank you. Like, I built people to whatever. You know, I thought I would finish careers over. I'm at no. That Chaz was stuff I was making up. It really wasn't that big of a deal. Cost Gathering The the steak, write it off, get back to work. You'd be alright.
You know, and that's that's how you ultimately learn to calm down later in life. The takes practice. And even the attitude that you see moving now is still practice. I practice it every day. Hey, Kings and Queens. Jazz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day.
And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too. So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things on social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify, we would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible.
Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this. Let's help each other. Let's help each other grow. Yeah. That's, encouraging to be able to know that you're able to Kings of, you know, pick yourself up, especially with that first that first deal going south. I wanna go back to that one for just a half second. Like, you could that would have been, like, the reason to just, ah, this isn't for me.
Oh, man, that's what I'm out of Yeah. Yeah. What do you like, in that moment, what made you say to yourself? Let me take him to lunch as opposed to, a failure. Let me just quit. Insanity or stupidity. I'm not quite sure which one to go with there, but, you know, basically, I don't know. Just it it creativity. Let me let me swap both of those words out creativity. And that is one thing that, has always been a hallmark of of what I do and what I teach.
And, you know, the things that I do in real estate is all about, you know, being creative And so I I checked the ego and instead of taking personal offense to the comment that the guy made, I saw the opportunity to correct a mathematical error. And so that's about as plain as I can put it. Guy stands up and says you're an idiot. My first thing is okay. I don't disagree. Let's solve that problem. You know what I mean?
So I think other people may have got become mad, you know, and defended themselves in a social manner. I didn't interested me. I don't know who this guy is. He's probably an idiot too. What do I care? I just wanna know what I did wrong. And if this guy's willing to stand up, it'd be brave enough to tell me that in class. He's probably brave enough to to go to lunch continue to educate me. And it was, as was true.
A guy's complete jerk turned out to be a great friend of mine, still friends with him. He's still a complete jerk. Love guy to death. And, he was one of my my absolute, first mentors in in real estate still for an abundant day. So Wow. I I'm just, you know, I'm just thinking of other relationships that I have. And and how similar some some of those are where you're just like, at the moment, it it it it it's tough eating crow. Right? It's like, this does not this does not taste good.
But for whatever reason Chaz was inside of us, we we knew it was like, no. Like, I got, like, I I'm not gonna it's not like it's not like we've even thought about giving up. It's just like, What's the next thing? I gotta figure out the problem. Well, the problem is that I pay too much. Okay. Well, how do I know not to pay too much? Because Yeah. I'm gonna do another one of these deals. Right? Right. Yeah. Hey. Look. You screw up 1 by 2. You screw up 2 by 10. Just don't quit. Right?
You'll get it right eventually. That's the key. It's like, I screwed up the first one. I'm like, oh, mess that one up. Give me 2 more. You know, like, oh, screwed those up. Give me 10. You know, let's just let's just practice through the failures until we reach that plateau of of success. And, and, you know, and and you were mentioned a minute ago, it's like, Right? Most success stories have The sort of trail of failures leading up to him. I agree. And the ones that don't were luck.
Like, if you see somebody come out of the wood and they hit a deal and they they don't have a string of failure before some large success. The of two things, they're lying, and I'm gonna go with that one on about 80% of the time. They're lying. There really was a string of failures. They don't wanna admit it. Or it's pure luck, and they shut up out of anywhere. That's just gambling. Right? Now you cannot base a business on luck.
And so don't look at somebody that that hit a market once or twice and go, hey. The last 3, 4 years, by the way, real estate. Don't get too cocky. Don't break your arm, patting yourself on the back over the last 2, 3 years. Everybody has made money. Call me in 2, 3 more years when the market has has done some minimal talk. Right? I see so many people going, oh, we've done great over the last 3 years if we didn't. Right. I mean, I'm not trying to take anything away from you, but hold on.
Don't, you know, don't don't get Gathering Right? And I'm seeing so much of that in the market right now, and people just don't understand shifts. And they keep doing the same thing until that thing Kings working, and then it slapped out of their hand. And so, yeah, not the Chaz. But, yeah, that's that's the key there. You gotta know, watch and stuff. Well, Chaz this is a good this is a good transition. So, you know, looking ahead, things are gonna change, business, real estate. They always do.
Whether we're looming on a, you know, financial downturn, in the next 12 months or not, it it eventually will be because that's that's that's how things work. They're cyclical. So what is what is somebody thinking right now? So how how are they How are they practicing? Doing the same thing over to get to get better?
But yet, kind of like almost thinking past that to think, what do I need to be doing differently when things change because the same thing, look, to your point, isn't gonna work possibly. That's a that's a great point. Yeah. You always have to wait. Well, I would say that the fundamentals never change. It's kinda like, you know, baseball or whatever sport you were playing or golf or anything.
There are always the fundamentals And so whether you're playing off on a rainy day or a sunny day, doesn't really change the fundamental of your Kings, right, because the market says or the markets that there are always the fundamentals. And so I I am not gonna speak to all business but say real estate, you know, you really need to focus on the fundamentals of what a good deal is. Normally, it's something that makes money. Right? And that's kind of we've departed from that lately.
And that's where I think when you've gone from using math and and logic and returns and things like Chaz, to create value. And now you've gone into this pure speculative value. That's where you're gonna see some of that clawback in the future market. So I would say anybody going forward, if we're strictly any business, really, but if we're just talking real estate, you need to learn fundamentals. You need to learn what a good deal is. And you need to look at a lot of deals.
So I would say in real estate, it's deal flow, deal analysis, networking. And those are the only three things you need to be worried gotta have deals coming in the door on a regular basis. Easier said than done today. I know deals are limited, but whatever. You gotta have deals coming in the door on a regular basis. Gotta know what a good deal is. You know, you can look at all the deals in the world and have no idea how to analyze 1. You're wasting your time.
You could know perfectly how to analyze the deal and never look at one. You're waste your time. And you can look at a lot of deals and know how to analyze all of them and not be able to pay for them when you're wasting your time. So it's deal flow, deal analysis, and then ultimately the which is the ability to bring in the people to pay for the real estate. You have those 3 things going on. You will be pretty good in any market cycle.
You are gonna The the big adjustment more granular right now is debt. I mean, it's the rates have gone up. That's weird. You know, I think that we may see some more debt the stress in the markets going forward for a Wolfe, but, yeah, that's the big one is, is adjusting to the new interest rates. And not chasing valuation. You know, you just really need to push back on the seller and get prices down and don't don't use, you know, fluff and puff to create value.
Wolfe, in using your, a more general terminology of, you know, like, eventually, it moves into speculation as opposed to maybe mastery. Everything that you're just talking about with the with the rates, if that makes sense, because over the course of the last 3 years, what we've been able to do is go, like, it's gonna go up speculation, which has been happening. So it it hasn't felt like speculation because it's been real, but it's still speculation.
And so I'm I'm covering the future that doesn't exist yet based on the past 3 years, which has been really good with an interest rate that from 2 years ago makes sense, but it's like my math equations in in reverse. You know? Market cycles. The answer there is market cycles, and that is something I teach an awful lot about. But it's understanding market cycles, which really translates into an inflation cycle. You just need to learn to watch inflation.
And if you can learn to watch the inflation cycles, that that tips you off to pretty much whatever's coming because the Federal Reserve always uses their rates to adjust inflation. Right? So we've seen rates low for a super long time. And then, unfortunately, we had pandemic with all of that stimulus money kicked into the economy. That was the black swan, we didn't see coming. That was a, you know, an outlier event, but they they've put pushed all that money into the world.
When we went into lockdown, thinking that the lockdown was gonna have more effect, negative effect than it really did. It didn't seem to have that much effect on the economy. And now we have all the stimulus money pumped out The, which cause a sharp boost in inflation, which, yep, here come the feds, and then they raise the rates sharply. So it's always just about Kings inflation cycles or market cycles.
And then those are interest rate cycles, which then just, you know, trickles all down the line. Give us what you're doing in the next 3 years. Real estate, mindset, Oh, yeah. All the above. Yes. Yes. Yes. And yes. I'm it's it's all my life is a string of Tuesdays. Man, it's just another day at the office out You know, it's this is the entrepreneurial lifestyle. I could be having, Margarita's Wednesday at lunch or, you know, give him a lecture on Sunday.
You know, so I don't really, equate in time of the next 3 years. I could tell you what I'm gonna do for this week. I I, you know, if you wanna go off into a mindset I don't like 3 5 year goals. It's a complete nonsense waste of time, since you ask. So I have no idea where we're gonna be in 3 5 Right? What I do know is the tasks that I set for myself Monday through Friday.
And so what I do is I set up what I consider to be a successful week in whatever, real estate, podcast, life, whatever you wanna and so I figure out what are the items that make up a successful week and how many of those do I have to do each week. Right? So it might be look at several deals, you know, talk to realtors, do this exercise, do everything. And then how many of those things do I need to do each week? I gotta accomplish The Monday through Friday. Because come Monday, it resets.
It's not cumulative. I can't bring that for it. Nope. It is a fail or or, you know, succeed and fail each week for this structure. And so that's why I called discipline goals. And I found if you Kings build out your week, what what we'll you'll do is you'll get to Friday and you'll feel good. Right? And and anxiety usually comes from knowing you didn't do something you were supposed to be doing. Right?
You didn't study for that test, like, when you're in school and at your cram in the night before the test, and you're actually, But you know what? If you kinda do your work for the week, you wind up on Friday. It's Miller time. Right? You're like, gotta take my lifetime, but it's not. So Miller time on Friday. Right? It's like you you get to the the end of the week, and and you feel good, right, and you relax, in your confident. And you know because you look back over the week and like, yeah.
I kicked Chaz 7 week. I did my stuff. I'm good. You know, I'm taking off. You get to Friday, and you know, you were screwing off all week. Nervous. So if you're if you have anxiety in your life, one of the ways to really get over that is is consistent action and consistent activity in a structured manner and skipped as 3 5 year nonsense. So I said, I can tell you what I'm doing between, you know, now next week past that, man. I don't know. That's good to be here.
How how is the next cycle, market cycle that that might take the next 2 or 3 years. How is that affecting your weekly Monday through Friday process that you just described? None at all. None whatsoever. Nope. I I just keep doing the job. You know, the the it doesn't affect my weekly cycle. The only thing I can tell you is it very technically affects underwriting of multifamily asset.
It affects exactly right technically how I might value a deal, but do I look at the deals or do I just go, real estate's off I'm gonna go play golf, screw the whole thing. No. No. No. No. No. Never. Never lose momentum like that. Even whether you believe the market's good or you believe the market's bad, don't worry about it. You you show up, you do your work, It's good. Kings always Tuesday. You know, Marcus come Marcus go.
You're trying to time this stuff and, you know, nail this down and jump in and jump. You're gonna wind up doing more damage. Gambling in and out of the market, then if you were just consistent and had a business model and applied the business model. Yep. You'll be fine if you'll do that. Yep. I was anticipating that answer, based on your previous, things that you've shared, which is just so good. There's there's The 5 year business. Is it vision boards and The Sure. Production.
I'm telling you that's mental Hooha for anybody that's listening and that it's absolutely crap. Set your system up for a week. Do it. That's it. I love it. You know, it's funny because, the 3 to 5, I hear you totally. I'm on the other end of the spectrum, which is fine. But you can't live in the 3 to 5. That's what I'm hearing you say. You can't live in the 3 to 5.
In fact, the people that I know that do live in the 3 to 5 are anxious because they they don't have the ability to reverse engineer it down to what you're saying. There's nothing wrong with 3, 5 year goals. I'm being extreme in for The. That's amazing. But you know what I mean? And I love it. Right. But 3 to 5 years is so far The. Yep. If if you're not working on the weekly thing, there's no chance you're gonna reach the 3 year, the 5 year thing. Right?
And by the way, if you're working on the weekly thing, The path goes exactly where it was supposed to go every week. Exactly. And maybe that 3 or 5 year goal was the right goal. See, because there's a whole other a whole other goal setting problem. People are usually people are usually terrible at setting goals. So you've got a 3 year or 5 year goal. Cool. Is it a reasonable goal? Is it attainable, is it got metrics to it?
Because, see, then what I find with my students is you go pull some some goal out your rear end that you have no idea how to set, and then you don't achieve it. The you get into a negative loop feedback. Right? Now you're gonna achieve the goal. Now I'm mad with you. I'm with me. Now you're depressed. Now you're upset. Now you're saying stop. Stop. Stop. Not call it off. It's just folks back on today. What are we doing Monday to Friday? If you'll do that, your mind tends to go over it.
So, again, there's nothing wrong with 3 and 5 year Chaz long as you know how to set them, and as long as you go back to work in each week to achieve them, it's fine. But, yeah, the people that live in that 3 to 5 year range, Yeah. You're gonna you're setting yourself for for mental, mental problems. Oh, yeah. No. I I I can think of a couple of people right now.
That each each time I talk to them, it well, first off, it's a roller coaster with that individual because they're excited and then and then they failed. And The, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, right? So everything that you've described is consistency. It's consistency. It's good, right pub, right, republican, president, democratic president. Definitely. What, look, at least on Exactly. Right?
And and obviously on a podcast yesterday Chaz a guest talking about this. It's like, look, man, I've been an entrepreneur through both an extreme left and extreme right and back to extreme left. And guess who's been winning through all of that? The. Let let me double down on that guy's comment. Let me triple down on that comment right there because, you know, I've said that before a hundred times. Man, I've I've been through a handful of presidents. You know what?
And my credit card statement made more difference in my life than who the damn president was. You know, The the a few dollars in my bank account and that loan I had coming due and the tenant that called up that had leads. All of that had more immediate effect in my life than than whatever The told me the president was. You know, yes, it affects stuff and all that kind of stuff, but you'd be surprised how little it really affects your day to day out life.
And and I think people need to keep their priorities straight. Yeah. Well, you gave us a really That matters The you might fit. Understood. And I agree with you. And I think most people The they're when they're honest about it, they they can see that how really external circumstances, president or fill in the blank. It just it it matters. Yes. It doesn't mean that you just put your head in a hole and and don't worry about it.
But what it means is that everything that Bill's given to you as far as a dial it in, and I've, you know, I've got my weekly checklist, my to do, and that stems from some other bigger things that I wanna do. But if I'm not doing this here right here, if I'm not dialed in every day, every week, every month, it's not it that's what matters. And so, I think you've actually given us a a really, really clear, on rent for Chaz. So I appreciate that.
I wanna ask you about family because you said freedom's a big deal. And I think our freedom generally is is a big deal for all entrepreneurs. And so my my question about family is, how have you been obsessive over them just like you have your business because even though you you kinda played this consistent, steady eddy, you know, not up or down. I know that you're all in because otherwise you wouldn't have success. You've decided and you've become successful Chaz that requires you to go all in.
So I also know that if you have a successful marriage and a successful family that you've gone all in there too and there's this quote, unquote, balance that I don't believe exists. Right? How are you obsessing over all of it at the same time? Sure. Well, yeah, I I obsess overall of it by not obsessing over any of it. It would be my first and foremost answer. I don't like that word. I'm set. So keep keep just keeping it on everything No. Yeah, married and married 4 of, gosh, now, 13 years.
Yeah. She's, like, 13 minutes. Sorry, honey. No. No. No. Great marriage. Been married for for quite a while now. First, we've only been married once. I I got married older. So I was thirty 6. That probably helped. No children. They're Rad kids. Kings, you know, yeah, the the wife and I make sure that that, we we keep our Chaz freedom together and do things and should work for me and with the business.
And so we we run everything collectively, but I would, you know, as I'm I'm sitting here thinking of the answer, somewhat a good answer to give you for Chaz. Have to say pretty much everything I've already said. She's like you said, it's consistency. Right? Yeah. Same thing in the marriage and same thing else. It's knowing what you want. It's it's not Kings, it's not straying out side of that narrow focus of of what you wanna keep in your priorities straight.
You know, could I have infidelity anything that's sure, but I that's not my priorities and those don't bring me. They don't fulfill desires more than the consistency and, stability of life. So I think, you know, to be consistent stable, you have to let go of a lot of ancillary desires. You can't have everything. You can't run around and do all The. You gotta pick what's right for you and stick to and then be loyal and and to your friends and your family and to everybody and treat them. Right?
And, and I always say probably beyond anything and everything is just just honesty, you know, just just be honest. And and I don't mean, like, don't lie. I mean, literally honest. Like, just tell people whatever you feel like they're gonna say it and You know, I mean, you know, that that that's it. That's about the only, like, magic I Chaz really give you. You know? It's awesome. I appreciate that honest answer. I think that that's that's what most people are looking for anyway.
I when we're just I mean, I had a conversation, on on social media the other day, and I was asking if you could tell if somebody was humble or honest. We're filling the characteristic online, and I had some folks basically just saying absolutely zero chance, you know, the internet's fake. And, look, I'm with you. I understand. But I wanna encourage The listener that there's people like Bill out there who are just giving it to you raw. And and it might sound a little different.
It might sound different than what you've heard or off putting, or it might be, like, might rub you a little wrong way. It might challenge you. It might inspire you. Whatever it is. He's just giving it to you. And, and that's what I was trying to explain to these folks the other day online. It's like, look, man, I just I'm just me. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know anything from you. I'm not asking anything from you. I'm just offering you the truth. No agenda.
I don't need anything from you. You know? Yeah. And and so several comments there. 1, it it's very difficult to help someone you truly care about. That's something I've realized in really, really, really, really care about somebody. It can be very difficult to actually help them because your your care may get in the way. So if you really care about somebody, you might wanna find a different way outside of your circle of influence to try an influence and help that person.
You have to Kings of cheat yourself that's the way too. I forgot all this. Anyway, Yeah. So, oh, and and, you know, being honest, careful, it can be dangerous. Oh, yeah. Not not everybody sees honesty in an honest manner. You know? Some people may get angry at you. Some people may disagree with you. Some people may, have you know, egos that that cause them to do certain things. And I have had all of those experiences and all those results. I don't let that change how I speak to people.
But, at the same time, you do have to be careful. You know? You gotta be brave enough to be honest. It's not easy. Yeah. Yeah. Brave is the right word. Courage. And and it and it those words feel fluffy sometimes. But, I mean, otherwise, I I feel like the other, the the the adversary, if you will, speaks louder, really, is what it is. And so if if I'm listening to people online from this post the other day, it's like, oh, no. Everybody's fake. You can't trust anybody.
And it's like, I maybe you're not trustworthy. Maybe you're not being honest, because I the way that I operate in person or in line or on my podcast, It's the same. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. I love honestly, Kings strange. I love that that guy made that comment. Because it's starting to tell me that what I think is going on is true. If everybody has access to something, it levels the playing field. So all of a sudden, AI comes out. All of a sudden, Chaz GBT, and everybody's a content creator.
No. You're not. No. You're not. Not if everybody else can create the exact same content you Chaz. And it's gonna cause the world to be full of just absolute garbage white noise. And then people like you and I rise up out of that white noise when people get sick of it so flood the world with Chaz BT created. Nonsense cars, please do it. AI, the whole wide world up. So the real voices can rise up, and it'll make us shine go go crazy. Go ahead. The internet is full of nonsense.
Yes. I agree until you watch this show. And then you're gonna come back. So I I love Yeah. I I love it. It's too bad that that individual has that point of view. It's probably not wrong. But, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. We'll be busy. We'll be busy being consistent. And honest. Yeah. Exactly. I'm just gonna keep bringing the truth to when you've had enough of that AI created The. Call me up. But, yeah, until The whatever. I don't care. I'm not threatened by that stuff. I've got books. I'm an author.
Write whatever you want. Yeah. It's good, man. I got one last question here for you. Yeah. I wanna know if you had the opportunity to, whisper in the younger Kings ear. What would you tell that guy? Oh, no. The the younger bill. Don't do it. Gosh. Quit doing renovations, at that downtime in the market cycle. So so the same thing I would actually Kings of probably tell everybody right now is, hey, you know, you don't catch falling knife.
Now is a time you probably wanna knock it off with, like, some of the speculative purchases, some of the, renovations and valuations and things like that. I did a lot of that early on away through 10, 12, that kind of garbage. And and, you know, forced the value up, and then everybody else would go into foreclosure, and I would just watch all my renovation value just literally erode away in in scope. I I thought long and hard about that. What would I go back and do differently type conversation.
And I usually answer nothing because now I'm here and I'm just, but that's a Chaz answer, really. Never did say that. So I really kinda stopped, but what could I actually say that would make some difference in my life. And I think really specifically, it would be, that, yeah, stop doing those certain types of of deals right then.
I can't give you any larger or more esoteric answer because I feel like if I had gone back in time and really educated my younger self, I would have known too much too soon and I wouldn't have done it. A lot of times you don't wanna know what you're getting into. You don't wanna know the path you're going down because if you know, you probably won't go. But if you're stuck in the middle, you're gonna push your way through. So That's right.
Sometimes you just need to take action, put yourself out there, sink or swim, and just do that and and don't learn too much. Because you can you can be guilty of knowing too much. I'm in that position now where now I can find something wrong with every single thing The over there. Well, that can limit taking action. You know, because now you're just saying, oh, yeah. I remember the time The the time when the time when the time went. Don't get on that road either. Right?
So I would say I wouldn't go back and educate myself, too much because I then might scare myself, and I wouldn't do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a, just, stick to it. Yeah. I just keep doing it. Like, hey, kid. You'll be alright. You'll live. Yep. Yep. I I tell you what I would do. I wouldn't go back and say a damn thing. I'd go back and bring some popcorn watch. Now that I would like to just watch The it's like, you know, complete train wreck situations I found myself in.
Now looking back years later going, That was such a small little event in my life. A boy back The, but I think that was like, oh my god. Seriously. Well, a lot of the popcorn, get you a get you a camera, create some good content. You know? That would There you go. I was just going back and forth. Yeah. That's about all I'd really do, but Yeah. It's awesome, man. Well, Ryan or, Bill, I'm sorry. I wanna know, how can the listener find you? You've got products.
You've got ways for them to be able to obviously engage with you online free and paid. I wanna know how they can reach you, and they can take their real estate investing to the next level. So we'll we'll go we'll go cheap to expensive. Alright. Email. Send me an email. I've I've loved to answer questions, whatever you want. So Chaz. Bill it, go Broadwell.com. It's b I l l at g o b r go broadwell, g o b r o a d w e l l. Right. Go broadwell.com.
I have a website real well, no, excuse me, before that, I have 2 books Chaz. So, I have 2 books on Amazon. I I strongly recommend not because I make money from selling books. I really don't, but strongly recommend you start with these books because I wrote them to be in a very step by step instruction manual for someone who's very new to real estate. So I have 2. First is real estate raw. That is a step by step of how to build a portfolio. The second is creative cash.
And that's sort of how do you use creative financing in real state. So real estate raw, creative cash, book books on Amazon. And then third, my website, realestateraw.com. All the information on there. I have tons of articles, tons of free info, and that's how you can reach out to me if you're interested in, finding out more about my mentorship program, and I I would love to work with you. So look me up. Yeah, man.
We just appreciate you spending the time Kings honest, giving us the, the day to day consistent efforts of a freaking winner, Bill, you, you've built a you've built a, like you said, a portfolio, a legacy, something pretty cool, but, you're you're wearing it with a where they say, walk quietly carry a big stick. I think that that Yeah. The the legacy is is, you know, but The the legacy, it has is this podcast. The legacy is this information, not the real estate, not the business. Who cares?
The legacy is the information that you and I are actually creating leaving. Like you said before, the PACCAR said, hey. For The show started. Hey. These things live on the internet for years. Good. Yeah. This is the legacy that we're doing.
So when you ask me what I'm really doing in the next 5 years now that now that I stopped and think about it, to go back and answer that question, exactly what we're doing right continue to help people because the information is the legacy, not the real estate. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be it'll be up helping possibly even millions for for many, many years. So Bill, you're incredible. Blessings to you and your family. Thank you for being here. Good day. Thank you. Thank you. Likewise.
Thank you for listening to Gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself, doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself, What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries and now interviewing over 2 or 300 The very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.
In fact, we are putting together 1000 Kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling Kings who fight tooth and nail for their business family and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
So if that relates and and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you sharp qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to Gathering. I want you to take a look at what doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.