On today's episode of Gathering The Kings. One last piece here on this before we move on. What's one thing that the listener can be looking for or watching for? You've Kings given some, like, you know, showing up, you know, obviously, skill set. What's one thing that they can be looking for? You just referenced, like, her ambition, her desire to be at the table. What is Chaz?
Like, how does that look different as opposed to just somebody who wants more money and is a little bit more transactional. And once they get the piece, they kinda just end up moving on anyway because they weren't really there for yours, you know, the seat at the table. Like, how did you know the difference, and what can they be looking for? What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, Gathering the The podcast. I'm your host, and I'm back today with Jay Agner here on the Kings stage.
My brother Jay. How are we doing? Doing great, brother. How are you? Wonderful. It's Wednesday. We were just discussing, what what it feels like sometimes The wake up and Like, I thought it was Thursday this morning. You know? Realize I had another day. Yes. It's always good to have another day. Exactly, man. I love that. Love your podcast set up. Sounds like we're gonna have a great conversation because you know how to do this podcast thing. Tell us what kind of business that you got, Jay?
First of all, it looks like you know how to do it better. You've got great lighting and a background. You've The thing down to a to a science man. So my my my job is, CEO of a software testing company, JDAQA. So we work with custom software development companies. We work with Chaz Companies, and we basically either are their QA team, or we come in and Kings the special ops for, you know, things that they can't test. Right?
So if there's about to launch a big application and they need fifty thousand people that are getting ready to use we'll come in and help make sure that that it kinda can withstand that sort of load. We also do security testing to make sure that none of the bad guys can get any of your data. So Chaz that's Kings what I do in a nutshell. Yeah. You guys are the boots on the ground in the digital space, running through a bunch of potentially not closed loops.
Yeah. You're trying to find the open loops. Right? We're the last line of defense, man. That is, you know, we try to make sure things don't explode in your customer's hands. That's our, you know, The our my favorite tagline. Yeah. I love that. Tell us what kind of business is. I mean, I'm sure you work with different types, but tell us kind of what, you know, generally makes up the clients that you work with. Yes. So it's either companies that develop software for other companies.
So they're custom software development companies. Like, we have some in Philly, some in New York that The make a bunch of different products for a bunch of different companies, and we are their QA team across that portfolio. We also work directly with SaaS Companies, E Commerce, real estate, you know, basically you name it in the SAS kind of realm. You know, we have dealt with it before.
You know, as I I love to tell people, you know, I I don't, I mean, no disrespect to them when I tell them that, you know, we've probably seen it before. Right? Like, nothing that they're making today is is gonna completely blow my head off that I've never seen before. So we've we've basically been in every vertical. And doing an agency like we do, know, you see a lot of different things. So so we've just about every vertical, every industry we've we've been in.
Yeah. It's almost as if, you know, you have the grand perspective and and really any application, what you're saying, any any sort of software piece that you guys have tested, they all Kings fit into a certain number of buckets of generally, this is like this. And, yeah, we know how to do it. And I I think pretty much every business Kings of operates like that generally. Right? Like, we kinda know, like, okay. My customers are gonna fit into these 4 buckets or whatever.
And what that should allow us to do is just get really honed in on those things. Chaz that been the case for you guys? We, I mean, we Kings group people together even though they're completely different industries. 100%. Yeah. And I totally agree. I mean, it's it's Everybody likes to think they're super unique.
And and, I mean, they are to some degree, but like you said, it at the end of the day, the job is a lot easier than a lot of people think because it's it's not, you know, finding these individual snowflakes. There's a common thread through just about every customer that you ever had and your job, typically, if you're gonna be a successful business owner, define that common thread, and and that lets you target and then also hone your product better to serve those customer types.
So it's Kings of just a feedback loop that keeps going which which is a a fun place to be. Yeah. It's an interesting concept because, as an entrepreneur, do you find yourself desiring change.
I know a lot of entrepreneurs, even myself, where I'm always trying to iterate and and become unique and and I want the next new, you know, flashy cool thing But when you have that reality that it's like, no. Actually, what I need to do is just these four things over and over and over again and just get even better than I currently am. And and Kings of forget about the rest.
That that almost sounds like, a not very exciting end, but what you're saying is that, like, no. Actually, that's how you become a master. That's how you win. Is that The essence what we're putting together here? I think so, but at the same time, there are certain avenues in a business like marketing and sales that you can you can try things forever that are fun and exciting. I mean, that's basically my job at this point.
You know, our operations layer and our execution kind of teams, they do work in a very you know, patterned, set of set of execution steps. They do the same kind of thing for every client, but, you know, I get The luxury to try different things and to do different marketing opportunities and do podcasts and to do, you know, different just marketing fun. And that's where I feel like the XB X, you know, actual experiments come into play.
But, you know, the business operations, the day to day, if you can make that as mundane as possible as far as, like, your steps to from you know, discovery to scoping, to contracts, to delivery, and execution, and then Kings of the customer retention piece. If that can all be the same, your job becomes a lot easier and it gives you the time to go out and do these other things The experiment.
Yeah. You've you've mentioned a couple Kings here that I wanna press on because Not every entrepreneur talks like this. And so for the listeners paying attention, when, you know, they're thinking about creating systems, you've given us a really good idea of what can be systemized or maybe what should be systemized.
But you kinda held off you said sales and marketing, but even more so you kinda heightened marketing as being, like, The fun you know, testing trials, like, you know, very colorful area of the business. Do you do you have a belief around a CEO spending time in Gathering, or is that something that, you know, CEOs can hire out? What are your just thoughts on you being CEO and in the marketing seat? I have I don't like work. Right?
I don't like things that feel like work, and I'm a huge delegation evangelist. I think that any great entrepreneur should be a really good delegator. And, I enjoy the marketing side of Kings, and I enjoy the sales side of things. And Absolutely. Can you go hire marketing people and do I hire marketing people? Absolutely. But is it something that I keep my hands in because I enjoy it? Yes. And the same thing with sales and trying new sales avenues and trying all that stuff is fun for me.
I and I did heightened marketing because, you know, making content is just it's one of those things where you can certainly the value isn't there for my hourly Kings of rate for me to be doing some of these things, but if it brings me joy as a business owner to try these and say, oh, wow. We actually got a customer from trying this new tool or this new thing. That's worth my time. Right?
Because then I've created a new avenue for me to delegate and hand off to somebody else and Kings run The ground. If I find that contact marketing Kings great, if I find that LinkedIn automation is great, if I find out as some sort of, you know, new sales mechanism is great, I'll help define that, and then I'll figure out how to hand that off to a team to Kings execute it on a day to day basis. Yeah. I'm in a 100% agreement on that. I think every CEO eventually ascends to the marketing seat.
And even if they have a marketing CMO or or some high level executive, Chaz that pulse, in essence, is what you're saying, is probably the most important in the business, and it's ever changing. To to your point, that's the creativity of it. And that's Kings how most entrepreneurs are designed, not every single one, but, at some point, a CEO has to elevate their game to be able to see trends and be able to identify new opportunities, which is sales and marketing. So appreciate that perspective.
I I say some Kings, you know, there's there's operators, you know, business owners that are operators. And, and they like that portion of the business, and that's fine. But it's tough to operate a business if you don't have any new customers coming in the door. Yes. Yes. Developing operations layer is, like, the most underappreciated part of being a, you know, going from freelancer to solar to entrepreneur to, like, real business owner.
I think, like, that operations layer is so important, and it's it is like, people are scared to let control go, and they're afraid to Kings hand some of that stuff off. But, man, once you are out of the operations on a day to day basis, You just start to fly. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, to your point, before that, it it gives entrepreneurs a chance to be free and creative, which typically means go get new customers. Go go build those relationships.
Go do the things that you've probably been good at naturally, but you've been held back by the operations in the day to day, the mundane Chaz you won't let go of. Right. Exactly. I wanna know, Jay, like, you you have a a unique business here. And you obviously serve some unique clients. Got a great business, but but what's your why? Like, Yes. I I can see, obviously, you're an entrepreneur and you like to build, but what's the deep rooted, like, what wakes you up in the morning?
Usually, my kids are the ones that wake me up in the morning. No. Actually, not really. I get up before them now just so I What does it say? Is it early? It's I I am a 5 AM guy, so, like, it's, I try it before The, but I mean, yeah, the the obvious Kings of, you know, boiler plate answer is my family. I have 5 kids and one on the way. And, you know, it's it's my wife is incredible.
And I I mean, look, I'm never gonna claim to the perfect dad or husband, but I think just being a better person every day or trying to be and, like, hearing those things from your wife or your kids about, you know, the things that they did during their day and just, like, I don't know. I my my my daughter said to me the other day, you know, I Kings of I'm not a business coach. I'm not gonna clean with The, but I my brother-in-law is, like, trying to spin up a business.
And my, like, seven year old daughter, she's like, well, she's like, you're always helping, uncle Brandon with business. She's like, yeah. I was telling him, suggestions and, like, things like that. And it just, like, it made me feel great that, like, she's noticing that I'm helping, you know, somebody else and, like, that's, like, an exciting thing for me.
So just constantly trying to provide for them and and be like the man, you know, to some degree, is it drives me, you know, and it's it's you know, being physically fit and being mentally fit and being, like, financially sound like all those things that you hear about growing up that, you know, successful people do. I think that just just doing that for them and then letting them see, like, you know, The hard work does pay off and and, you know, have my wife be able to stay home with the Kings.
This was a things. Like, just being able to be that provider, you know, maybe kind of a common answer, but it definitely is my driver. Yeah. Actually, you took it a a slightly different direction than I think the common boilerplate. The boilerplate, is, you know, you wanna provide, and it usually means, you know, house and nice things and and all the more surface level stuff, but you you went deeper than that.
It was more of a, like, I wanna be, like, you said, you called it The man, but what underneath that, what it means is that, like, you wanna be who you're meant to be to them. You wanna be the leader of the house. You wanna lead your wife. You wanna you know, provide safety for her. You wanna be able to do all these things for your kids. I mean, 5 kids with one on the way. Like, I I have 4. I thought I was lead the The here, but I have to yield to my man over here.
There's a lot going on in your house, and and I think for guys or or ladies, but that maybe The don't have kids yet or that are, you know, maybe working up to the to the squad like you. It just it becomes just a heavier and heavier, not like weight like a, like, oh my gosh. I have to carry the burden of a family. It becomes, like, more and more, like, real. Would you agree with this? Like, like, no. It's like, this is not surface level for me. These are, like, my children. This is my legacy.
I'm, like, trying to build them. Like Yeah. Yeah. I don't I mean, it's not a it's not a well, I I always tell people once and you know this too, but once you go 2 to 3 kids or 2 of the more than 2 kids, you have to switch from man to man The his own defense. So, like, after you after you make that switch, it just becomes, like, kinda, you know, controlling the chaos, living in the chaos and kinda like being okay with it.
And again, you know, I'm the last person I don't know if it's gonna say I'm perfect at that, but Yes. It's it's Kings of building up, you know, I I wouldn't say that they're my legacy, but I would say that there is a certain set of things you get to do on this earth, and you have a certain amount of time on this earth. And I think if I can grow them up to be good contributing members of society, you know, I'll have left the world a better place than I found it.
So that's kind of, you know, what I strive to do. That's cool. I'm a a big legacy guy, and you you mentioned legacy there second, what what is legacy to you? Yeah. I mean, that's it, man. It's it's just, you know, the way I think, but honestly, is that in however many Kings of years, the sun's gonna explode, and the earth is gonna be gone. And all this stuff that's here on earth is probably not gonna matter. Right?
So, like, it's it's providing, and raising kids that will hopefully be the future generation that can live, you know, move out into other planets and grow The the rest of the universe and, like, keep the human race going. Right? It sounds very, like, you know, spacy and and literally. But, you know, I I it's, the surface level stuff Chaz you get older. And as you know, like, you get kids and stuff starts to fade away.
Yes. It's nice to have nice Kings, and you want them to have nice Kings, but, I just want my legacy to be The, I was better than my parents. You know, I was better than my dad and my family, and and I wanted to, my kids look back and say, you know, he cared about us. He spent time with us. And, you know, they keep that legacy going themselves and Kings of build their own successful life Wolfe be something I'd be happy with. Yeah. That's good, man. I wanna know, a little bit of your story.
You know, you said that, you know, you've started this business, but what did you do before? A big part of it was getting your wife, home with the kids. What what what did life look like before this business? Yeah. So I grew up in Virginia, Miller, nowhere, you know, Kings had to just figure out stuff to keep myself busy, which I think is where my hobby Kings passion came from. Like, I always have a million things going on.
Went to school to make video games, thought that was gonna be the best thing in the world Chaz industry sucks. I didn't and, you know, I I went into it as a game tester for a while and then Kings of branched out and did, you know, a bunch of different things. But the direct genesis to this company was my wife was an overnight pediatric nurse, and she was pregnant, and she was Chaz. And, like, I mean, law you wanna talk about getting some perspective on life.
It's like, go visit one of these places and watch. Look at these, like, kids that are hooked up to machines that are, like, never gonna leave. Like, that's like a crazy thing to have to go overnight and do overnight. So I, you know, I I started looking out. I applied for Uber. Uber turned me down because my license was from Virginia still, and I lived in Pennsylvania. And, like, I, was looking at overnight stock boy jobs at Walmart, like, to to supplement the 9 to 5.
He's like, what do I do to make more money for the same amount of hours in the day? And then I went online, I have found elance.com, which is now upwork, you know, years later. And I started doing contracts. I started picking up individual contracts. I had a problem saying no to money, and I tried to figure out, alright, if I have more contracts than I have hours in The day, that's a great problem to have. But what do I do with that?
And, basically, from that point, I started to hire people that I used to work with. My old boss, I hired, to work with me and for me at at another company. And, you know, we just kinda grew out from The. And I I realized as soon as I as soon as I I mean, I still remember the moment very clearly from run up and down the stairs, we're so excited. Figured it out. It was The this company was gonna pay me $50 an hour, and I was gonna be paying my guy 25. And I was like, I'm gonna make $25 an hour.
And, like, not have to do anything. And I thought that was the craziest, you know, just thought to ever have. And and it kinda just, like, exploded at that point. And now, you know, we have 60 plus people and we're, you know, 3 different continents. And, like, that little moment, though, was the one where I realized, like, I can have other people work for me. There's margin involved. And, you know, that was 50% margin.
Now we're 60 to 80% margin, but, like, we really that was the moment where I said, alright. This is a this is a good idea. There's a business here, and it Kings just, you know, went off from there. Yeah. Love that. For the person that's listening right now, you know, that moment of, you know, I can charge 50 and I can pay 25 and gets make 25 for nothing. It's, you know, the the it is a conundrum, really. It's like, wow. This is pretty powerful.
But the value in that is that you secure the client. You secured the The. You put the contract together, and it's a it's a higher level, you know, maneuver. It's a it's a higher lever. That you pulled. And so that it, therefore, you get paid more. And that's how business works. So I appreciate you've been given such a a a plain example on Chaz. I think that that's important for people to know as they begin to scale that it's okay to do that because The their value is in the scaling. Right?
That's what you were doing. My wife had the same thought. She was like, well, she's like, is The, like, even is this, like, is this, like, ethical you're supposed to be? I'm like, this is how business works. Like, this is every business that's ever been had ever. Like, you they make there's a margin. That's why companies, you know, charge less than they pay their employees. That's just how it works. So that moment is important.
Well, that's why that guy worked for you because he didn't have a client. He had a skill, but he had no client. You had the client, but you wanted to be able to help 2 clients at once. And and this is just, again, this is just how it works and and again, you scale it up depending upon the number of people. You have obviously done a great job with that with 60 60 team members. What was a a practical just really good business decision that you made.
Obviously, that's darn sure that there's plenty with sixty people, but as you scale, just something super practical that you can share with listeners. The was a moment where I had a really good QA person working with me and She'd been working with me for a couple years. And she, you know, 20, 30 hours a week.
She had a 9 to 5 job, and she came to me and said, you know, Jay, I I would I wanna keep working with you, but they're getting ready to offer me this big promotion at work and shit, but I wanna come work for you. I didn't have any kind of full time employees at that point. And it was a big you know, it was a decent price tag. It was a 100 plus $1000 a year engagement that I was gonna have to take out of my pocket to pay somebody to Kings work for me.
And it was by far The best decision I've ever made run this business was to bring her in as my COO. She's still my COO today. Her name's Autumn. She lives here in Ohio. The her ability to take over operations and run that was a was almost important to start in the business. I mean, it's and I talked about it a little bit earlier, like, the operations layer.
It is massive to be able to hand off actual work to somebody else that doesn't need to be you know, completely prepared and, like, spend all your time getting it ready. I she you know, we have a very clear process now. So that was the moment taking the leap to to eat some initial money and profit. Hoping that long term it would work out, and she's been my right hand for years now and has just helped this business in immense ways. Yeah. That's incredible.
What do you think in that moment gave you, I guess, the push. I mean, 6 figure salary, obviously, a very qualified individual. The could have been ego there of, like, you know, I don't want somebody as good as Chaz. Like, so many reasons why someone listening today may have made a different decision in the past or maybe in the future. So I'm trying to keep them from making maybe a bad decision. How in that moment, what were you thinking? Like, there's a lot of money and, you know?
It was a lot of money. I but I think I just realized something I did realize earlier on that. I mean, I I must have interviewed a thousand plus people over the last few years just to work for me and and work with The. But if you talk to enough people and you work with enough people, you identify really good people, and you don't wanna you don't wanna do business without them. Right? Like, I if I would have tried to do business without her, make growth would have stagnated.
I would have been stuck in the same spot. So it's it's really trusting your own ability to find people that you can work with really well Chaz you know that do a good job and improve a good job. And conversely, I've learned first impressions in business are rarely wrong. If you if somebody screws up out of negligence or out of, you know, not being fully honest at some point. And you try to give them another shot. I Chaz almost guarantee you it's gonna happen again.
And I've learned that lesson, you know, a couple times in business. But, you know, the the good ones that prove themselves that that are just you know, ride or die. They're gonna be there when you need them. They're gonna go the extra mile. You gotta you gotta develop that knack of of really understanding people and and that was what that was what gave me the push was I knew she was great and I knew the work she'd put in with The. And I knew that that she was gonna keep doing that.
So I think it was just being really confident in my my own ability to to gauge people and to, you know, to to trust her. Right? It was to let go that, you know, some some of that control, like you said. Yeah. How, like, I mean, you know, The is your 1st major hire and you went straight for the jugular, the the top, you know, top position in your company. Think walk us through that that philosophy rather than thinking, well, no. I'll wait on this. I'll let her get this promotion.
I'll go find somebody that can be entry level and Kings just couple things Kings me. I'll keep doing this. Why did you go that way? Top down as opposed to bottom up? I I had some contractors already that were, you know, Kings working with us and for us, but she was she was special. And I I think I, again, I just I realized how special she was, and I realized and and nobody had ever really shown me that level of Kings of trust or dedication before.
So it was it was reciprocating that appreciation. Like, she appreciated who I was and what I was doing and kinda believed in The. And, she deserved and still deserves a seat at that table where it's like if you, you know, you prove yourself trustworthy and that you can that you have the fire that I have that you're you're gonna be there and you're gonna I mean, that 9% of the job is showing up. Mean, if you don't I can't tell you how many times I've just blown somebody off who didn't show up.
Like, you're not gonna get a second call or second interview. Like, just if you don't show up to something, especially in clients, clients are gonna care. If you just if you don't deliver something or you don't, you know, come to a meeting, you say you're gonna like, they don't care. You gotta show up. So I I think it was the fact that I knew she was she was gonna show up and be a, you know, a a delivery based person, which is really important to me at the time.
And I knew I I had somebody good, and I think that's why I just and that's she was pushing for that too. She's very ambitious. She wanted that Wolfe, and she wanted to be see at the table, and she wanted to be at the COO level. And I said, you know what? You've earned Yeah. One last piece here on this before I move on. What's one thing that the listener can be looking for or watching for?
You've Kings given some, like, you know, showing up, you know, obviously, skill set, what's one thing that they can be looking for? You just referenced, like, her ambition, her desire to be at the table. What is Chaz? Like, how does that look different? As opposed to just somebody who wants more money and is a little bit more transactional. And once they get the piece, they kinda just end up moving on anyway. Because they weren't really there for yours, your the seat of the table.
Like, how did you know the difference, and what can they be looking for? That's a great question. I think the I think it comes down to, every interaction has to feel right, and you have to see that You have to see The them put in that extra effort. You have to see because like you said, some people are transactional, and that's fine. Some people just wanna come to work and they wanna you know, I have plenty of contractors that they just they wanna work their hours.
They wanna be done and they're out. But if you see the people who are trying to to punch upward and trying to get further up. Like, those aren't everybody. Like, every a lot of people can say that, but there's not everybody does not try to be a C level executive, which is like Wolfe for a C level Like, everybody Kings, like, we're like, oh, yeah. Like, everybody wants to do it, but, like, there's lots of people who don't wanna run a business. A lot of people don't wanna be an entrepreneur.
A lot of people don't wanna you know, chief operating officer. There are a lot of people that would just much rather go in, punch their, you know, card and and go home. So I think it's just recognizing the people that have that motivation and that ambition because like you said, a lot of people have a lot of talk, but it's have they shown up Have they really been there when you need them? And if they do, then you gotta trust and and reciprocate and appreciate these people.
I think that's why people work for me is because I try really hard to treat them like human Kings. And if they're putting in work, you know, I mean, all I have is money. Right? Like, it's all I can give people. I mean, I give The my my my love and my respect and my time, but beyond that, it's money. So you have to, you know, pay people right, give people bonuses when they show up.
And when they do what they're supposed to be doing and they go above and beyond, and just just treat them like human beings and, so, yeah, to answer your question, I think it's it's you gotta identify those people who have that Spark who have that real drive to go up because everybody doesn't have that. Yeah. I think it's probably one of the most powerful things that you've said. You've said a lot of powerful things, but The fact that that's not everybody.
That that push, that that Kings of like constant, like they're pushing up against even you, even almost getting you out of the way. Yeah. That can feel wrong to an entrepreneur that has a big ego. And they and that and that'll be pushed down. But that is a glorious thing, which you're talking about, of just recognizing that and then being able to go, okay. Wow. Let's see what this person does with this. Right.
Oftentimes, they don't disappoint because they're, like you said, they're not like everybody else. Tell us, Jay, about a bad decision that you made. Something, again, practical that you did that just wasn't your best hour that we can learn from? Trying to do too much. Too many clients, too many deliverables. There was a client that we had, some CRM application that, you know, was a pretty good client at the time and it was it was great for for back then.
And I was running 5 or 6 contract at the same time. I didn't give you know, whatever release that was supposed to go out enough attention because I was actually doing the QA work back then. Of course, the one thing that you missed is gonna be the one thing that the client goes to do, and she went to do it. Her client went to use it. It broke the whole system.
And, you know, I still remember the feeling of You know, she actually says to me on the The, the CEO of the company, she said, this isn't this isn't, you know, goodbye. It's just, you know, it's we're gonna take a break for now. And I'm like, oh, god. That is just I felt I mean, I felt like I was getting broken up again. You know, I was, like, fourteen again, like, getting losing a girlfriend. Like, it was It was very devastating, but that stuck with me.
And I try to use that motivation with my guys and say, like, look, we have got to, you know, cross every tee. Because the, like I said, the one thing that you overlook is gonna be the one thing that your client finds. So it was It was really just it was burnout. It was trying to do too much at the same time. That was before I brought on really, you know, enough contractors to help me.
But it was it was trying to to, you know, be everything for everybody, which, you know, you gotta you gotta know your role. Yeah. Yeah. There's two pieces here, and it sounds like you did maybe a mixture of both. So I wanna kinda dissect this a little bit, because I've also been in this position where where there's just OGs, a lot going on here. And and I feel like there's really 2 ways to handle it. You either retract backwards, which is someone fires you, or you let a client go or 2.
And you Kings just re sure up what you have, or you have to go higher, which can potentially be even more messy for a period of time, but then, of course, things stabilize. Sounds like you've done a little bit of both. Would what would you say to the The, is maybe a better way or or maybe a way that you, did it more detailed? Hire contractors as soon as you think you need help would be my advice. Don't wait, meaning. No. Don't wait. Try to find things that somebody else can do for you.
It's all about buying back your time. And if there's any message for any of The stuff, just buy back your time, man. Buy it back. On the day to day basis, on the operation side, on the like, whatever you can do to buy back your time to do the more important thing to do it. So, yes, I mean, it is a 100% hire and especially contractors. Right? I mean, w, that's a 1,000,000. And we're working we live in a remote world now.
I was even more it's easier now than it was 10 years ago when I was doing this. Is you hire somebody 1099 contractor that can do the work that you wanna do. You don't have to go in this big investment of hiring these w 2 employees time. Now, yes, there's certain scenarios where that makes sense, but Yep. 1099 somebody. Bring somebody in that can help take the load off your plate 10, 15, 20 hours a week regardless of what the task Kings.
If it's doing the actual work that you're doing or if it's administrative stuff that you have to do or operation stuff, like waiting to do that too long, is one of the bigger and it just it's it's it's easy to do. It's easy to wait, but I would I would say, you know, don't slow down by, you know, losing clients or by not accepting jobs or by doing whatever. Like, you're shooting yourself in the foot.
Like, why would you ever do that when if you just do the math, hire somebody for cheaper, get a new client, and just Kings rinse and repeat. Yeah. I think what, what could be helpful for the listener here, almost like a word picture that I I've used several times. I I've owned many, edible arrangements franchises over the years. And we've got big times of the year. Valentine's Day being one of them where we'll do just 1000 and 1000 and tens of thousands of strawberries.
And and it gets crazy because everybody wants them on the same day and they're fresh fruit, and we can't dip them, you know, 2 weeks in advance and freeze them or anything. So we have, you know, just tons of people. I had seven locations at one point, 500 plus temporary workers over a 4 day period, like, just logistically a nightmare.
But as I've gone through, that process of developing, you know, this thing over a 4 day period and being able to, you know, have this machine move forward, The word picture of, like, you gotta be like, in it, but then, like, you gotta come up above and be able to walk what's happening. Right? And then you gotta go back down. Right. When you stay down for too long, you you're not paying attention to all the moving pieces of the machine. And this is how business works.
This is not just a holiday and out of arrangements. In essence, what Jay has given to you guys right now is if you've stayed down too long, then you're gonna miss the opportunity to hire the contractor because you're in it for too long. And so you gotta you gotta pop back up on a regular basis. You don't pop up for very long, typically, when it's in the early stages like that.
You you pop up, The a look around, you make sure if you need to make any adjustments, hire a contractor like Jay's talking Kings, and then you go back down. But you've gotta be able to know how to come up and down into the vision because otherwise, you're gonna get smacked in the The. With a lost contract or a whatever because you're down in the weeds and not paying attention enough. Now you can't you can't do the opposite.
You can't go up here all the time, right, because The you have, you know, not enough work or something's happening down below in the operations and you're not paying attention. And then you're losing all your money because I've got people standing there and no no strawberries to skewer or whatever the situation. So, I think that what you gave is really, really powerful because we're always getting stuck. Like, oh my gosh. Do I know? I don't know. I'll just take care of it. You know?
But it's it's stagnating growth even though you're accepting it and, quote, unquote, doing more, what Jay's telling to you guys is, like, you're just gonna cut yourself off eventually because you're you're you're not growing ahead. You're not you're not keeping your head up. Would you like to add anything to this, Jay? No. I think you summed it up pretty well. It's it's a and eventually, like you said, you do have the opposite problem.
Where you if you stay up too long and you're not at least tied in with your organization, you don't have to be in every project. You don't have to be You know, I don't know what the day to day stuff of some of my guys, and that's fine. But I know the general status of all the projects, and we have, you know, sync and then and those The managers of those projects and I talk on a regular basis.
So we there is a, you know, a nice little cascade of information that comes up and down from those projects, but I think your point is great of of, you know, dipping your head down every now and again after you've Kings gotten out of that cycle. But certainly, you know, higher hire people before and hire assistance before you think you need them. Yeah. That's a big one. It's a big one because we think we can do it. You think you can do everything. I mean, you can, but you can't. Right? You can.
That's right. You Chaz, and that's the problem. You can't. You can't. And then you can't. Yeah. And then you can't, which is tough. I had a guy. Tell me about this. I had to get out of the podcast. I don't know, maybe 6 months or so ago, and we're The the same vein here. Like, yeah, you can do all things.
He's like, yeah, here's the here's the problem Chaz that you might be capable but you doing all the things at the same time, if you're just being honest with yourself, looking at yourself in the mirror, you're act you can't be a 100% at all of them. So you got 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 things going on, and you're, you know, 25% on all of them at best. And so you hire the one person to do that one thing. And even though they might be 80 you're thinking, Kings, they're not as good as me.
It's like, well, no. No. No. They're 80% compared to your 25% is a way better deal. Yes. I've been curious with your thoughts. We talked to the same person, the reason. I think I heard Chaz. Seriously. I Maybe. Yeah. I'll have to figure out. But, yes, that's that's exact. And there's the same thing I heard. Yes. 100%. Yeah. If you you're not there's no way that you're gonna do as good a job as somebody that you bring on.
And even if And like I said, even if they're not as as high level as maybe you would be doing sitting down there, but you can be off doing 15 other things. Like, that's the that's the whole thing is buying your time back. Yep. It's good. Tell us about a business resource, maybe a book, maybe a podcast, maybe an event that you've been to, something that you've invested time and money. An effort into that's been beneficial that we can go check out. I've got 2 of Chaz. Alright.
Yeah. Yeah. The The collision conference in Toronto, I visited for the first time last month. And that was mind blowingly. Fantastic. There's 36,000 people there. Holy. All sorts of tech and product and all. It was it was an incredible resource. And, I I would highly recommend people check that out. As far as books go, phonetic prospecting by JebBlanc is probably just I mean, even if you're not gonna sit down and call, like, cold call people, just to just the theory behind, like Yeah.
You know, nobody's gonna sell your business for you. Like, they're not you know, and even if you even if you hire salespeople, like, you still have to be so tuned in to, like, getting new business. And it's, like, such a big deal. And Chaz was just one of those, like, you know, something clicked when I I I don't know. I'm an audible guy. Like, I don't even Oh, yeah. I love to, like, do other stuff and listen in books, but, yeah, I Chaz that was a huge one for me.
Yeah. I've gotta echo that a lot of the books that have been recommended on the The, I have read, but that one, I have read many, many, many times. One of my favorites, probably in the top 5. Jeb does an incredible job, especially for your industry where there's just much larger tickets, much more enterprise clients, Yeah. He does an incredible job of describing what that sales journey looks like, and fanatical prospecting.
I love the word fanatical, intense The know, whatever it is because that's that's, like, let's just be honest. That's what it is. And if you're not like that, you're probably not, not gonna be successful or not for very long, at least. Yeah. You're not crushing it if you're if you're, like, mundanely trying to get prospects. You know? Like, it's Yeah. It's a very good word. I imagined I imagined one of your guys coming in saying, yeah.
Yeah. I'm gonna mundanely, send out some, prospecting emails and You're out of here, buddy. We need fanatics only. Yeah. Would fit would fit to Philadelphia fanatics, you know, the Philly fanatics. So that's that's it for a while. The you go. I want a question or I have a question about family. You've got a big family. We talked about that a minute ago, but I'm I'm a big big fan of the word obsession. I I don't like the word balance at all. In fact, I don't think it exists.
So, you know how to obsess in your business. That's why you why you've been successful. Tell us how you've obsessed over your wife and over your kids at the same time because I believe it's possible. The great question and great point. Yes. It is possible. I have always It's it sounds cliche, but I've always put them first. Like, I can't tell you how many meetings or podcast or whatever.
I've put off or rescheduled or changed or whatever so I can go you know, help my wife do something or go to a kid's event. Like, I don't live my life the business, but I never have. Even when I was a 9 to 5, like, I never really I never really cared. Like, it was never something where it was, you know, if my wife needed me, I was there. If I had to be for my kids, you know, The whatever doctor's appointment or for a field day or whatever. Like, I'm gonna be there.
Like, it's never been a question for me. And it's funny because I'm sure maybe you can relate with us in some of your audience is like, you know, significant others can get a little too used to Chaz. And they can assume that you have a lot more time, and it almost becomes a problem with, you know, how much you have to work when, like, in reality, you're not working nearly as much as anybody else on planet earth.
So it is an interesting, you know, I'm not gonna call it a problem, but it's an interesting situation you get yourself in where, yeah, the people in your life, like, my daughter's seven years old. My son's ten years old. Like, they haven't been a physically more than, like, a mile from me, like, in the, you know, like, I'm always around. Like, I'm I've worked from home. I've done whatever. So yeah.
I mean, to say that I obsess is like, you know, I mean, I'm up every morning Kings breakfast, doing whatever. Like, I'm here. You know, this week, they're going to camp it. When they get back, you know, 4 o'clock onward, you know, dad's gonna be. And so it's if I'm not in The office working and even if I am, you know, they'll stroll in and, you know, I'll do my little song and dance, you know, to pretend like it's not a big deal with the person on the phone or the client that I'm talking to.
But, yeah, it's it's just constantly making sure that things are okay and things are, like, level in my house. Then everything else comes out for that. Because I mean, my making as you know, like, making money is not hard. Right? Like, you can make money by working whenever. And you're gonna somebody said something the other day The really stuck with me. It's like, you know, your your bosses and your employees are not gonna remember in 5 years that night are those nights that you stayed up late.
Your kids are gonna remember that you missed whatever because you weren't there because you were working. Right? And that just hit The. And I was like, you know what? That's And being where your feet are, you know, it's a a cliche phrase too, but, like, I really try to do that with them and and, you know, put the phone down, put work down, and just, like, know, it doesn't matter if it's 2 in the afternoon or 2 in the morning. Like, I'm I'm gonna be there.
Yeah. Yeah. You said it, pretty quietly, but in essence, because you give the time. And even sometimes, not not to say that it's not appreciated, but it's maybe expected. Because I feel the same way, especially if you work from home, the the availability of my human, is is sometimes like, wait a second. You're I'm here, but I'm but I may not be all the way here all the time. You know? But what you said underneath that was that, okay.
Well, but during my work time, whenever that is, throughout your process of making sure that Kings are, even at home, you're all in. You're you're you're The. And so that way, you can give the time. And maybe it means you work a little harder or you're more focused or you're more intense and you gotta go, you know, run harder. You know, but you're not gonna sacrifice the the the obsession over here. And so I appreciate The that that that word picture that you gave to us.
I got one last question here for you, Jay. I gotta know if you had the opportunity to go back in time and whisper in the younger Jay's ear. What would you say? Go hire people. That's what I would say. I would say go hire people. And at the time, I'd probably what the hell are you talking about? But, Again, man, it's it's it's buying your time back, and you only have so much of it in a day. Go hire people. Let go of the control and take the risks that are associated with hiring people.
1099 contractors are not a big risk, by the way. You can you can try them out. They don't work. Send them on their way. But if they do work and you find somebody that's making $25 for every hour they're working like I found back The. Right. Would've been life changing. Right? So that's the number one thing I would tell everybody is don't be afraid to hire somebody to help. And it it ties with everything. Like, it's maybe it's a painter for your bedroom or for, like, you know, doing some of it.
Like, yes, it's great to do some of that stuff and, like, be hands on and do whatever. But, like yeah. The amount of time you're spending, like, going to change an outlet in your you know, office or something is probably gonna take you 6 hours. And, like, how much other stuff could you do in 6 you know what I mean? Like, and if it's as handy as you can be, Like, there's stuff that you should just have somebody else do and, like, you know, landscaping. Like, like, yes.
Again, be hands on, but, like, hire people in life to do things to free you up to spend time with your family and your business. Yeah. Love it, man. You've you've dropped some some amazing stuff here today. How can The listener find you? Number 1, if they have a company where they're working on software projects and they need testers or, your business can they find you? But then also if they're just an entrepreneur, they wanna find you. They wanna talk to you. Jdaqa.com.
The can find me for any testing needs. My calendar is also in there. Anybody's feel free to to book a time. LinkedIn, huge LinkedIn guy, or j@jdaqa.com. Feel free to reach out. I love helping anybody I can. So, appreciate your time today, Chaz. You're awesome. Yeah. I appreciate that as well. We wish you Kings and, and your family, of course, with the new one coming, it sounds like. All those cool things Chaz, you guys are putting your hands to here this year. Thanks for being here, brother.
Thanks, Jeff.