On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. What have you done in building your businesses and maybe it's marketing related? Maybe it's not. Which has been a really solid decision that you can look back on and go, okay. When I did this and maybe you've repeated it in your second and even now third agency, maybe we could share it in listeners could implement it in their business.
Yeah. There's no question this is an easy, easy answer, and probably the most valuable information I'll give on this podcast. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, gathering the king's podcast. I'm back with you today. Another king here on the stage My good friend, actually, Buck Wise, my friend. Dude, thank you for having me on. I mean, I've been waiting for an invite to this podcast. For years now. And years. I'm really happy. This you know what?
I got the right here, I've got my list of goals. Right? Yeah. It's on your podcast. That was it. You know, you've always had a knack for inspirational words, and so I'm gonna receive those as as just that. I appreciate that. But in all seriousness Yes. Fucking I met a couple of years ago, several years ago, I guess, now. We were just talking about how several years have already passed in. Yeah. It's been a few. But we met in a unique circumstance.
I'm sure we can talk about that here in a little bit, but we met in the pressures of the 10 x world. That's right. And and all of the things that were we were building at that time, and we didn't get a whole lot of time to to rub shoulders, but I've just always so appreciated just your perspective and your ability to articulate And so I'm super excited for this conversation. Tell us what kind of business that you have now.
Yeah. Sure. I run a full service marketing agency helping businesses doing over a $1,000,000 in any vertical, get clarity, get more organized, but more importantly, drive better results. And that's what our clients come to us for.
I also worked very closely with a lot of high end, high performing executives that are looking to build better personal brand, and that comes from 25 years of experience working across small business, big business working directly with big entrepreneurs, lots of web celebs, people who are somewhere in the middle. You know, they They don't quite have a business, but they have a personal brand, and they're looking how to branch that personal brand into more business.
And so it really runs the gamut, but, you know, we're in our 2nd year of this agency, and I've got a an amazing team, and that team just crushes it every single day. This will be my 3rd agency if you can believe it or not. I have built and sold 2 other agencies. And so this is gonna be round 3. And you know what they say? The third time's the best time, man. I love it.
I was gonna make sure that the audience knew that that you didn't just happen to become a a marketing expert a couple of years ago. And, obviously, your third one in, 25 years of experience, and and that's really some of the conversations that you and I were able to have even in person at SYNNEX headquarters was really about Chaz marketing angle and the story. And and has even played into some of the personal brands you're doing.
I wanna definitely get to that because I think that there is an angle that you're obviously helping people with. We have a lot of business owners that listen to the show, but there's this creative space as well. So I see business owners that need the creative or or personal platform or personal brand. And then there's a lot of personal brand or creators, as they call themselves, who don't have anything to sell. That's right.
There's a merging of this, and so maybe we can talk about that here soon, but I wanna know, okay, 3rd agency in, why? Why are you so, like, into it when it comes to marketing, building businesses, building teams? You did the same thing for for one of the grants businesses. Like, you're just, like, in it? What's the why? Like, what's the burning inside of you for for marketing? Sure. Yeah. I think the first thing is I'm just really fucking good at it. Like, why did you not do it? You know?
Yeah. It's like the simplicity you know, you said it earlier. I hear people say this all the time, so it must be true. In marketing, perception is reality. Meaning, if that's what people perceive, that's the reality of what you are. And so people always say, this is nothing I set out to do. But people always say to me, you have such an eloquent way to describe complex challenges in business marketing and sales. That's right.
And so I that's really what I feel like I do more than anything is I break down the smoke and mirrors of marketing for people. And I help business owners get organized. And when I take that organization, I put systems in place for people where There is no failure. And if there is failure, you see it right away. You're able to optimize and create better better results immediately. But I would say, you know, the second thing is I actually kinda fought it on this 3rd round of agency building.
Okay. You know, I I built my 1st agency way back in Detroit, Michigan. I was working for CBS Radio at the time. I had a morning show in Detroit, and the Detroit Tigers came to me and they were like, hey. How do we get you to do digital? Like, you're doing digital for CBS. Yeah. And I said, I don't know. I guess I've never really thought of it. So I got permission for my market manager to start this agency.
And I started working, you know, my first client out of the shoot was Major League Baseball. You know? I was like, wow. I have no clue what I'm doing. I mean, I knew the digital side. I didn't know business, though. Right? So I was trying to figure it out. But eventually, I I, you know, I built that agency up to think it was 4 or 5 employees, small agency. We were doing, like, 2 or 3000000 a year. I had, like, 17 clients across the Midwest, very Midwest focused.
But I sold that agency to a smaller agency and then worked my way up through that agency into bigger clients. And so I started working with Nike and Starbucks. And and so you know, I've watched the agency space take a shift, and they used to do a lot of acquisition through agencies. They used to pick up little ones and build big ones out of the little ones. They take 10 little ones that are really good at one thing and make one big full service agency. They don't really do that anymore.
The agency space is just trying to keep the profit margins they have now. Agency, by the way, if you're watching us, you're like, I should start my own agency. Don't. I'm telling you right now, the margins suck. Like, agency is one of the hardest businesses to build. There are a lot of other if you wanna be a business owner, there are a lot of other better business models out there. But to answer your question, why would I do it this third time?
Yeah. What I noticed is I'm really good at it, and it becomes the connector to other opportunities for me. Yeah. The opportunity for me to create new businesses. So for example, in the last 2 years, 2 of my marketing clients came into service just one aspect of 4 aspects of business. Right. And in that, I found an opportunity to build new P and Ls, build new LLCs, new partnerships. And so I have 2 other companies that I created last year. But it was all through this vehicle.
It was all through marketing. So I'm not looking to build the agency out to be a $1,000,000,000 global world dominating it. I mean, listen. I'm worried we got big goals, and we definitely want revenue and profit and all of those things. But I have no exit strategy on the agency other than it connects me to better exit strategies if that makes sense. Kinda Yeah. Which Yeah. Which it it aligns with what you were just saying to people listening. Don't don't start your own agency.
It's It's really tough. Which is funny because that's how we met each other. I was, you know, building an agency for Grant, and you came in as an expert in the in the agency Wolfe, and we talked a lot of the difficulties, actually. 90% of the agencies fail, and I'll tell you buy. Talent. The margins are tight. So when the margins are tight, you pressurized the talent. That's right. And any business. And and and any business agencies are worse because they're creatively focused.
Yeah. So the problem is 80% of an agency is a creative role. And in creative roles, it's really hard to pressure test creative because they're built different. I actually give kudos to what Grant was able to do. He was able to build a system where he's able to keep talent that wants to perform learn and grow. Yeah. And then it turns any bad talent, any any creative talent that doesn't understand business that doesn't have personal goals. It turns them out of the system really quickly.
Yeah. Even though he's not technically an agency, he's got a lot of creative people working for him and a lot of us stayed in for a really long time. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. We could could talk a whole another podcast on what he's built and the benefits of that machine, for sure. I think the agency piece transitions to business because What you're saying is that really talent matters.
And then depending upon what the offer is or what the service is, the margin, Chaz those things can correlate whether to actually be able to go higher talent. But then whether the talent is squeezed, I think all of those things are relevant. Do you find that that thing exists in all the clients that you're helping now as well? Does that marginalized impression happen? It's not it's not as bad. Like, I've got med spas. Their clients, right? Their margins are right. Freaking ridiculous.
You know these IVs that people are giving? I know. It's crazy. They're they're paying $8 for a bag. They're charging 250, $300. The margins are stupid, but Yeah. In order for those companies to truly scale. It is always about talent. It's about inspiring people to come to you attracting great amazing talent.
And then it's processed behind that so that they're able to take positions and you're able to use process and scale you out of those roles so that you can build bigger portions of your business. So, I mean, talent is always kind of the hinge to some degree, but it's easy to keep talent when your margins are freaking great. You know what I mean? And the challenge in marketing that if you if you are a marketer, you're in the marketing space, the challenge is there's it's such a wide vertical.
You got big agencies doing RFPs for $1,000,000 campaigns. And you got a 1,000,000,000 mom and pop businesses Yeah. That are spending. Well, I run ads and I built a website, and I spent $3. You know? And then you're trying to charge $8, right, for for for services. You know our quality, not some outsourced fiber book. That some other basement dwelling agency is running. Right? How many agencies are run out of their mom's basement? A lot. Right. And you know what?
They're so good at the actual branding that you have no idea. These guys don't have legitimate businesses. There's thousands of so it's it's getting difficult to differentiate yourself in see where, you know, there's the small agencies and then there's the massive corporate agencies. And I sit somewhere right in the middle where I can produce high end corporate content but we can also work with small mom and pop businesses and help them grow as well.
But the problem is is competitively, it's all education The clients don't understand the difference. Well, why are they charging a grand to do the same thing you guys would charge $8 for? So then the good agencies like us, we have to work a lot harder to prove through why you wouldn't wanna go with these crap basement dwelling agencies, you know, which I think this topic, I I wanna just press on you a little bit because you're obviously very passionate about this.
I think it matters to all businesses because, you know, whether a guy is listening right now who installs decks or a gal starting a retail flower shop or whatever. Them differentiating themselves is obviously a part of marketing. This is what you help people do. It makes sense when you're passionate about it. And so how can the listener right now hear what you're saying and going, okay.
I need to differentiate myself in a way that, you know, exudes value more so specifically that puts me over and above or shoulders ahead and above or head, whatever that phrase is. Yeah. To the person that's operating just out of their pickup truck or operating just out of their mom's basement. What have you done specifically to help overcome that that they can maybe do in their businesses? Yeah. First of all, I'm gonna give you a quick tip that will work.
K. With any business that you're gonna conduct. If you're a business owner and you're about to spend money on a vendor or a service, ask for proven case studies. Yeah. Okay. Ask for proven results. You wanna see the proof. Ask for the revenue of the agency that you're gonna work with and ask how they were able to create it. If they can't run a business themselves, And how are they gonna run your business? That'd be my first piece of advice.
But when it comes to differentiating to get very specific, There's two things that are really important. Every business owner doesn't matter how small or big you are, that you must do first. Understand who you are, and understand who your target is. Yeah. If you have those 2 things, and I mean detail, I'd I'd talked about this 2 days ago, if you saw my Instagram, which by the way, I'd I'd love anybody watching this right now. If you want tips like this, hit me on Instagram about buck.
I all day long, I just do the value value value. There's no funnel. I'm not driving call to actions. I'm not trying to get you to sign up. For my weekly newsletter. It's all education and value. It's about buck on Instagram. I talked about this 2 days ago. You you know, business owners think they know who they are. Oh, okay. Yeah. Know who I am. Know who they are. Got it. Yeah. I know my friend. I know my target, but you don't. You don't know.
And I'll pressure test you for 30 seconds, and you won't have answers. I'm gonna ask you very specific questions. I'm gonna ask you why you exist for the consumer. And I'm talking internally. Why do you exist for the consumer? How do you change their life in a non transactional way? I'm gonna ask you Chaz same question. How are you different? And here's the best part. Can you give it to me in one sentence? Yeah. And when I ask your other employees, are they gonna give me? The same answer.
Sentence. Yeah. Because that's how you know when there's fragmentation issues. When your corporation is not being run the way you think it's being run, And then I'm gonna ask you, you know, from a core competitive standpoint, what are the attributes of your brand? And if you can't list those out, you haven't done due diligence. Also, I'm gonna ask you to actually you know what? I might ask you to email it to me, but I'll ask you even if you have it written down. Send me your brands.
Yeah. Send me your strategy. What does your brand stand for? What are the differentiators? What are your attributes? Show me. Yeah. If you can't show me, you don't have a strategy you have an idea. You have you're you're still in concepting phase. Yeah. But, Buck, we did $1,200,000 last year. Congratulations. You accidentally created a $1,000,000 revenue. You'll never go to 10. You'll never go to 20. You'll never go to 50. With this, with the ID in your head.
I think that's the thing that drives me the most crazy. I love the startups. The startups are great because they're like, What do I do? Right? But you get this. I I I need to come up with a term form. They're like the edge of success. They're like, you know, they're like, We just created enough momentum and they're like, we may they think a $1,000,000 is a lot of money. They're oh, we may and they're like, no. We know all We just need you to run ads.
They get in this weird place where they quit thinking long term because the money hits, and it's like a junkie, like a drug. Yep. And then they just want more. They're just like, yeah. Come on, man. We just, you know, you I don't need all that strategy. The brand thing at Target. Uh-uh. Like, we just we just need you to, make a landing page and, like, increase the nurture on the email, and it's like, no. No. No. No. No. That's that's we gotta back up, guys. We're gonna go to 10,000,000.
We're gonna work on this for few years. Like, we're not gonna just run a Facebook ad tonight and blow this out of the water. This is not how it works. You know who'll take that gig? I was gonna say all the mama Basement agencies. They'll, yeah, know, and they'll promise you. Oh, we'll do, you know, we'll 5 exit. We'll 10 exit. Like and then they don't. And then they come to me, and then they have to pay more, and they wasted their money. You know? So well, it's a time horizon decision making.
Right? You're talking about something that's substantial. That can't happen in one Facebook ad or one funnel or one email sequence. Wolfe, yes, those are part of it. The key for me is I'm a data marketer. You know, people do. They give me the term. They'll say, like, marketing expert. I I don't like that term. I have a lot of failure. You can call me that. I've done a lot of business. I've had a lot of failures so that I know what not to do again. But I am focused on data.
And so data informs strategy, strategy informs creative. It's in that sequence that you create more success. Data, strategy, creative, basement agencies. By the way, I'm picking on basement agencies. First of all, one, appreciate their hustle. The problem is those basement agencies fake it till they make it. And you will pay the price for them faking it with your dollars. The same holds true. Let me switch gears. The same holds true. When you're hiring marketers in your business.
Amateur, associate marketers, people who have just started. Yeah. Wolfe drain your ROI if they don't have the actual experience as well. So you need to be I'm not saying that's a bad thing to hire a a an amateur marketer. What I'm saying is have a lens on what they know versus what you know. Yeah. And what they need to do is mimic someone who's already created success. You bring in someone like me to put a blueprint together for them to execute. They execute against data strategy creative.
So the first way to know if you're dealing with it, this is easy. So maybe you don't wanna pressure test your new employee or a basement agency. You don't wanna pressure. Okay. Great. Don't ask him for results. Don't ask him for cases. The price was so cheap. You just went for it. Right? Okay. Ready? If they come to you with creative ideas, Here's what we're gonna do. Tuesday's benchmark live on Instagram, Thursday, hair cells, Friday, we're gonna do an email blast to this list. Right?
Creative, creative they're at the end of the sequence. Right? That's how you know if they're professional or not. A professional starts with let's look at the data. What is the data say? Because the data doesn't lie. So that would be my best advice is always look for who's look at this. When they start speaking, listen very carefully, is it creative, creative, creative, creative. Right? Or some some marketers that have done it long enough, are talking strategy strategy strategy strategy. Right.
Well, what we wanna do because we know this performs well on TikTok is anything under 30 seconds Right? Strategy strategy. So you're like, oh, they know strategy. Great. Ask him. So tell me, what's the data that you found for one for us to be on TikTok? Right? Yep. 2, what's the audience that you're trying to reach on TikTok? 3, how many of them should we expect on reach to actually see this for from a data standpoint, what what would be the average conversion rate of a target like this?
Let's say older demographic on TikTok because I don't know. Older demographic on TikTok. What's the average conversion rate of an older demographic? Do they have trust on that plan? Data, day to day. Ask data questions. That I because some people launch right in the strategy with nothing to back it up. And usually what that person is doing is they're mimicking things they've seen other people do. Yeah. Which means it's not custom to you.
It's Yep. Templated from some of their clients, some of their campaign, and they're just gonna plug you into that campaign. So that would be my best advice. A long winded answer. I hope that it goes too long for you, but it's so deep and so so rich. I I wanna ask you I guess, a question on a specific angle there.
Yeah. On data, what I have found in dealing with customers of all different types of businesses, is that if you have a data driven person, just maybe more naturally or maybe based on their personality Mhmm. A lot of times a data driven person wants not like proof, but, yes, that's part of it, but, like, a guarantee or show me exactly this is gonna happen, and this is gonna happen, and this is gonna happen.
And you and I both know in marketing that things are a little bit nuanced and a little bit flowy because it's your brand, and it's not gonna be the same cookie cutter to your point that you just made. So how do you go from being data driven? Because I'm so in alignment with you on that Yeah.
To also understanding that this is 10 year horizon that we're talking about going to 10,000,000 or 5 year, whatever the big and there's gonna be, like, these bobs and we've gotta we gotta take in nuances through the process. Yep. That's that's a that's a maybe one of the best questions anybody has ever asked me. Really good question. You're throwing a dart, and you're trying to hit the bull's eye.
The more data you have, the closer to the bulls eye you're gonna get, the more money you're gonna save. But, ultimately, the data is the Google map. So think of it that way. The data is the Google map. I have a Google map. You don't have a Google map. We're going to the same location We understand exactly where the goal line is. Right? We both get in our cars who's gonna get there first. Right? You turned left. You should have turned right.
Yep. I turned left at the same time as you, my map said, turn around. You should have gone right. Yeah. Data is the voice navigation of the map. Love it. So to your point, you're not always you know, there's 3 things a business can do. Scale, sustain, or slip. That's it. Yeah. There's nothing else. Yeah. So the question is on your map today, this hour this minute. Here's your goal. Here's where you're at. Are you sustained? Are you going above the goal? Are you scaling past it? Right?
Or are you slipping below it? The faster we know where we're going, the quicker we change choruses. That's right. So that's the point of data to me is that if you don't and that's the point that's hard to get across to owners. Why? Right. Yeah. Because it's not tangible. Right. Because they're paying for something they can't physically hold in their hand. Yeah. But it's peace of mind to the owners that understand it.
They sleep better because they know that if it doesn't go the way it's supposed to go, it is in a 24 hour period before they save the the boat. They stop the hole. They, right, you know, they turn to get the bleeding. You know? So, like, other businesses will go 30 days with a crappy agency and just bleed out for 30 days. Right. And and so that's, to me, that's the importance of data is just knowing exactly where you're opposed to be. Anybody that tells you? Any marketer, high level.
Beginner says, This is exactly what we should do. It's guaranteed success. They're not a great marketer because Chaz nobody's gonna guarantee the strategy. But I'm gonna guarantee I get closer than the competitive agencies. I guarantee they probably had some sales training. That's not so much maybe in marketing. That's right. Okay. So how does one know? They're listening right now. They just launched a marketing campaign, or maybe they're considering working with you.
They're considering working with any vendor, I guess, really, but marketing is the topic here. So I am gonna make a decision. I'm gonna spend x amount of money is there a time frame that I should hold on? But yet, I don't wanna bleed out. Like, I don't wanna bleed out on a bad decision. Yeah. But I also don't wanna get out too soon to your point because sometimes it's just a matter of letting the thing happen that needs to happen for a period of time. What is that period of time?
So back to data, I always go back to data. What are the KPIs we're tracking? How much we're spending? Are we tracking The reach versus acquisition. Are we looking at MQLs marketing qualified leads versus SQL sales qualified leads? Are we so it depends on the campaign very specifically, but it's those it's those data points that tell the story. So then This is where it gets a little bit more difficult, and this is where experience comes in, is data is only data.
But to somebody that reads it, it's like braille. If I handed you braille right now, how easy would it be me and you? Either one of us would probably do well. Right? Right? And if you've read data for a really long time, you can tell the story you paint the picture, you color you color in what happened. So, hey. Interesting. You got a lot of reach here, meaning it's hitting that target audience.
They do exist, but you are getting absolutely no acquisition, no conversion, no sign ups, no new contacts created, Right. It tells me a few things, so now we have to dissect immediately. It's not resonating. Are we fishing in the right pond Right? We have the wrong target. No? Got the right target. Data says this is the target that likes this thing that wants this thing that needs this thing. Then guess what? What's your call to action? How creative is it? Is it trustworthy?
You know, because ultimately, you know, talk about simplicity, All marketers are really doing is trying to get the world to trust them. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. So so it ain't work. Somebody don't trust what you're doing. Right? If you tell me, I know me, my value, why I'm different, and I know them, and that's them. And a marketer makes that connection and nothing happens, then you gotta look at the creative. And you gotta look at the creative and say, why is it not resonate?
And, usually, it's because you don't know your target well enough. Interesting. You if you knew your target, wealth, you knew them intimately. Yeah. You would have no problem getting them to go. Chaz person speaks my language, and that is exactly what I need. Yeah. Yeah. This is a really you you mentioned this a few minutes ago, how a lot of people skip over or they've heard, like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard it before. Like, know my avatar. Right?
Yeah. But it really is important to your point. Like, every little data point along the way, it kinda goes back to Okay. I can I can analyze each point of conversion in a funnel or a sales process? Mhmm. But really what I'm analyzing is who's on the other end and what's being delivered to them at what points. Mhmm. And so okay. So help us understand. You said you work with business owners that are doing a 1,000,000 or more in revenue in any industry. Who is that? How do you know them?
Get describe this person to us? The the the businesses that we work with? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Hey. Kings and Queens. Chaz Wolfe. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too.
So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things. On social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify. We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible. Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this.
Let's help each other. Let's help each other grow. Yeah. Just give us I I'm using this as an example show the listener intimate things that you might know that they might get their brain thinking about things that they need to be knowing about. Sure. Yeah. I can give you let me give you 2 good good examples. And the first one is I actually studied the drinker of a pumpkin spice latte for 6 months. So we had to know them very intimately. Howard Schultz came to us and said, Hey.
We've got a problem. The market is saturated with pumpkin spice. Starbucks was the original pumpkin spice drinker. Right? And and McDonald's came out with pumpkin spice. Then Burger King came out with a pumpkin spice. Right? And then Dunkin' Donuts competitively came out with a triple sugar pumpkin spice because they like sugar and all their stuff. Right? And then Yankee Candle came out with pumpkin spice, then Durex condom came out with pumpkin spice. Right?
Like, you could pumpkin spice any of that. Yeah. We did the research. Right? So we took 4 pieces of data. We looked at internal data. We looked at what they call POS point of sale data. We looked at loyalty data. If you guys if you have that, what is it called, on the Wolfe, isn't that what they call it? Yeah. If you have this Starbucks card right here, Chaz holds a lot. It holds geo data. It holds purchase data. So we looked at loyalty information. And then we even looked at 3rd party data.
We purchased third party data from credit cards because we wanted to learn more about the spending habits or behaviors of specific targets. And and what we're able to do is take all this information and tell a really deep rich story about this persona, this target. And so her name was Heather. We presented Heather to Howard Schultz. And, you know, she was millennial and Heather had college debt, but she was a trendsetter in her micro group. She knew the trends. She just couldn't afford them.
So like a nice pair of new ugg boots, she got at the end of the season on layaway so that she could wear it the following season. Right. And, you know, we studied the things that Heather likes the most because what the reason we wanted to spearfish I call it spear phishing versus wide net. The reason we wanted to spearfish Heather was because we knew she drove more occasions of sipping in the season. And so she would have the biggest impact on revenue.
Target me all day with pumpkin spice I'm never gonna buy 1. Right? It's a waste of ROI. Target Heather, she'll remember to buy an extra one Chaz each week when she normally would have forgotten to buy 1. So top of mind awareness and attention. So we had to determine what data point Did we learn about Heather that created the most success? And this was it. We learned that Heather aided being on the wrong side of FOMO fear of missing out.
She wanted to be the one that said, 1st SIP of the season, PSL, Right? She would be on her Instagram with her fingerless mittens and 70 degree weather with a tree behind her. Right? So we studied Heather and that FOMO data point, what it taught us was if we dark posted and segmented only Heather, and said, hey. Nobody knows this exists. The drink isn't even out yet, but we're gonna give you exclusive access to sip it first in the season before anyone else.
And you can share with all of your friends that you know it exists. So we put a secret code in and we dark posted only Heather's and it drove a 20% increase in revenue from the year before. Yeah. You know? But it was only because we spent 6 months and 1,000,000 of dollars of research. Now I get it. Small businesses don't have 6 months, and you don't have millions to research your consumer. But don't give me excuses. Don't give me that bull. Yeah. It's very easy to go back.
We're so first step you can take. Go back to your current target, your current persona. How many of you already have the current persona or target in your database? Should be everybody unless today's your 1st day. Go back and examine the ones that created the biggest impact on your business. I want you to have 20, 30 minute calls or coffees with this with this persona, and I want you to ask them a series of 20 to 30 questions. Which questions?
The one that that are gonna help you make better decisions on what you're doing for your own campaigns, for your own business campaigns. What we're looking for is a trend line. K? So we're looking for everyone answering the question. The more you can interview, the better. If you can interview 5, that's great. If you can interview 10, even better. Right? It's great. What is the answer they all gave that you can emphatically say, we know the consumer feels this way because they all said it.
That's a trend line. Right? We knew that Heather wanted to be the very first person in her circle in her group to say, she knew it existed. She bought it, and she documented the process on social. She she wanted that clout and her inner circle. She didn't even wanna be famous or an influencer. She didn't cared. She wanted her friends to know she was the one that was up on the trend. Right? So that data point was worth a lot of dollars. My question to you if you're a business owner.
What data point? What question are you going to ask your consumer? It's worth extra 20% increase in your revenue. That would be my best advice if somebody's starting to target somebody. You know? Yeah. Those are super great points. I love the story too. I think everybody can think about Chaz, Heather, if you will.
And, really, if you just put any sort of effort towards you know, whether you're looking at your current list of of clients or or not and you just you're just thinking about who you would like to do business with, think about what they do for fun and what they do for a work, or do they not work?
I I remember doing this with with edible arrangements, obviously, you know, I have or had several, but have a few left still, but It's like, you know, Valentine's Day and and mother's day are not my avatar. Right? Those are the huge times of the year for sure, but every other day of the week, It is not a dude coming in and buying something for his wife, mom, or sweetie. Right? Every other part of the year, it it someone completely opposite. And I know what she does for work.
I know how old she is. I know that she's, you know, running the the family calendar as far as gift giving and and all of that. Yep. And so I think that this is super powerful. What have you done in building your businesses and maybe it's marketing related? Maybe it's not. Which has been a really solid decision that you can look back on and go, okay. When I did this and maybe you've repeated it in your second and even now third agent Yeah.
Where you would maybe we could share it and the listeners could implement it in their business. Yeah. There's no question. This is an easy, easy answer. And probably the most valuable information I'll give on podcast. There's nothing more powerful than your personal brand.
And if you aren't invested, and your ability to be a thought leader in your industry and your vertical, then you are missing an opportunity for rapid growth rapid attraction of amazing talent and better connections to build bigger businesses. I can't tell you the amount of owners I meet that are afraid to put the camera in front of their face and start connecting online. Instead, they wanna be behind the scenes, behind the curtain, and I'm not saying you can't create a successful business.
But my question is how big do you wanna get and how fast do you wanna grow? Right. Because in the first breakpoint of business, before you hit 5,000,000 in revenue or 10,000,000 in revenue Yep. It is you. They're buying you. They're not buying the product or service. They're buying trust from an individual. Right? When you get to Starbucks level, it doesn't have to be you, but even Starbucks You know, Howard's an ambassador for Starbucks. Right?
Like, so yours always should be an ambassador to your business. Doesn't mean that you have to be the the lead gen, the sales, the closer. That means we have to be all aspects of it. But the concept is this. If you create an amazing template of what an ambassador and a personal branch should look like, then your other leaders are gonna follow in your footsteps and create the same level of commitment to the business that you are. And that's you passing the baton to your senior leaders.
So you can go on sabbatical for 4 months and you have other great leaders and ambassadors that are driving in the business. That's right. I think you're missing the boat if you say, oh, no. I got a flower shop. We do ecom. It's all Google reviews are great. 5 stars out of 5. Great. Awesome. No one knows that, you know, Heidi is the owner and Heidi's just amazing, and she gives back to the community. There's no story. Heidi doesn't exist.
It's just you you are just a transactional flower shop that's creating marginal success. And and if you wanna get bigger, you gotta start creating content and telling stories. It's just so much more rich. Easier to trust and you'll convert so much faster. The other thing is you may sell that flower business one day. And when you the one thing that they can't take when you go. When you sell that flower business is your personal brand.
That equity sticks with you no matter what you do or where you go. That's right. Yeah. I was just getting ready to ask you the parlay. Obviously, you have parlayed into multiple agencies even working with some pretty big names, but Chaz personal brand is something that's not associated just to this one business, although it highlights this business. That's right. You can have multiple businesses, or maybe it's just a a business after this one's sold and done and gone. That's right.
The value, I think, what you just shared and and help me articulate this further if if we're not on the right point here, but is that even for the small person who is the small business owner, creating the storyline about them personally, is the differentiator in marketing today versus the transactional, maybe what we're used to from 30 to 50 a 100 years ago. It's just, hey. Here's my stuff. Here's how you buy it. And today, that's not how consumers operate.
So even if it's home service or if it's marketing or if it's flowers, there's a way for you to be able to communicate as the entrepreneur a storyline about yourself that makes you real authentic, relatable. A creator is probably what you're thinking of, but it makes it it makes it open or or vulnerable enough or a story someone else can follow and then when they're ready, they make a purchase from you. In essence. A 100% in the beginning, and I'll give you something to look forward to. Ready?
Cause you're never gonna get rid of problems. You're always gonna look for bigger problems. So here's gonna be your biggest challenge. If you build your business with your personal brand, it's a great way to kick start engagement, trust, and conversion. Yeah. But you have to be careful. I have businesses that come to me at the 510,000,000 mark, and the business only exists because of their personal brand. Yeah. That's good. He is. This is the big key 1, you have to do it.
I'm gonna make you do it. Number 2, train other leaders attract better talent. Train them to do it as well. Right? Yep. And then as you have 1, 2, 3, 4 leaders, guess who's doing it less? You. Less of your personal brand, more of theirs, you can't sell a company with your name on it. It's really difficult to sell something that personal.
So you gotta be careful Chaz you build the personal brand, you're an ambassador to the brand creating a template for other leaders in your organization to learn how to do the same thing. That's exactly it. That's good, man. Let's talk about a bad decision, something that you've seen one client make or something that you've done in business that was just not great, and we could stay away from. Yeah. I would say my career was very much built backwards.
And so that is that learning lesson we talked about early on, which was I started with Iheartradio on the TV and radio side. I was doing my own radio show syndicated to over 60 markets. I had a show with Ryan Seacrest in Los Angeles pre idle, so nobody knew who he was. But we did a show together on Iheartradio in LA for 2 years, and it was all creative. I learned some valuable lessons of how to build a community in how to engage and drive a very particular behavior.
All good things, but I didn't understand the business side of strategy. I didn't understand the back end side of data. And so it wasn't until later till I started that little agency with the tigers that I had to fake my understanding of business acumen, what a p and l is, how to do taxes, what margins look like. You know? And so I I I learned the hard way through that.
I don't know that there is a school that really teaches you great marketing, great sales, great business other than, you know, Cardine University, if you're looking for sales, is a great one. If you're in real estate, one of my clients, Ryan Sarhant, has an amazing sales training program for real estate agents, And so, you know, there's there's the the, again, there's no university. There's just people who have done it before, and they did it the hard way. Right?
So we figured it out on their own. They all have amazing entrepreneur stories, but I would say the biggest challenge every business owner faces is, 1, not understanding the data, 2, not investing strategically in the long term, Right. And then I would say the last and most important mistake that you can make. And not only have I done this, it's easy for every business owner and entrepreneur. To ease back into this.
You need people in your circle to remind you to pull out of this because it happens often. As entrepreneurs, especially marketers, it's very easy to go transactional. And just the straight for the conversion diverse is the nurture. So I'm gonna give you a data point that's gonna help you remember this. K. 70% of the success of any campaign you build should be the nurture. Not the awareness attention and flow to the conversion. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Now buy. Right? You skip the middle.
70% right in the middle. Here's the attract attraction is easy. Running ads is easy. YouTube is easy. Right? Going live on Instagram, easy, hey. Attention awareness. Look at me value propositions. Right? Right? Okay. Looks interesting. Right? Problem is our call to actions, think of a 1st date. You know, you take a girl out on a date, and you're just like, you wanna you wanna hook up? And they're like, disgusting. I don't even know. You haven't even bought dinner yet. Right?
That's what marketers do. We're just like, hey. Let me take you to date and pull your pants down. You know? It's like, you're disgusting. Yeah. Right? Like 70 like, dude, buy flowers. Pull the seed out. Tell them they're beautiful. Listen to them. Understand them. Make them feel heard. Yeah. You won't ask for the conversion. They'll ask you. That's right. How do I buy? Right? Yeah. I I built a a platform that had some, you know, sales process training years years ago.
And this is an example that I gave, even in sales, because it it works the same. Whether you're in the marketing part of the funnel or you're downwind in in the sales process, I the example of dating and everything that you just said is so so spot on because This is how normal people in even in the sales process operates. Yeah. Just pitch. Do you wanna buy? And it's like, well, wait a second. Yeah. Can you wind me? Can you dine me? Can you know my name.
And and I I give the example, like you said, of all the little things. You do, you know, pulling out of the chair and the flowers, all the things. It's the nurture. Yeah. Yeah. You lean in. You great questions and you get curious and, like, maybe like you actually care about the other human on the other side of the table. And Yeah. What that what that tends to do at the end of it is in the example of the dating, she's calling her friends going, oh my gosh.
She's so amazing, but the reality of it is is that I rarely I didn't even talk about myself. She doesn't really know a whole lot about me because because I was so curious in that scenario of the dating scenario So true. About her and trying to just, like, really pull out what's important to her, which we can do this to our prospects. And like something that we do in marketing and sales, it's an authenticity. It's like, no. This is just how we operate because we're humans that value humans.
I'm not just running a play to get them to feel good about themselves so that they can, you know, x yz. It's like, no. I genuinely wanna help them. So I run this play because it helps them open up so I can get the real answers so I can actually help them. That's right? Alright, man. I wanna know of good, like, book or business resource that you found. You kind of already mentioned card on you Chaz well as Ryan's sales training. Anything else that you'd recommend that the listeners grab?
Yeah. Sure. I've got a guide right now that listeners can grab that's, you know, since you since you offered. Yep. It's how to create content that actually creates cash. There's a simple step by step guide that, you know, I just I just pounded business owners and said, dude, you gotta get in front of the camera. The next question is, What do I say? Right? Like, done it? Oh, what do I do? Not a problem. Alright. Not a problem. Okay. Now what do I do? Right? Yeah. This this is where they freeze.
They they put the camera. They either face and they go, okay. What do I say? So I'd I created a guide that that could be really helpful to anybody that's watching this. So what I'll say is if you want this guide, it's absolutely free. I promise not to ask you to have sex. I promise we'll go on a date, but it's it's just free value.
And I like building this community So whether you're a $1,000,000 business or you're just starting out, just instagram me the word guide, g u I d e. Just DM me the word guide at about buck and I'll get you that guide. It's by the way, it's fresh. Like, we just launched this thing last week, and I spent a ton, ton, ton of time on it. I actually was only gonna spend a short amount of time on it, but my second resource, so I won't be so self self indulging here.
Was Hermozy's new book, $100,000,000 offer. It's such a great book, and it talks about how entrepreneurs rush a product to market too fast. Yeah. And so I slowed down on the guide. I took my time, and I built something that I could truly be proud of. So I know that this, you know, my intent was this thing actually needs to help owners create content that drives real results in revenue. So that's that's exactly what I did, but that's another great read.
Yeah. You know, my audibles just filled with amazing books that could go on and on. There's finance books and, oh, one of my other favorite ones that's really good for busy. You know, it's interesting because you you people see me and they talk a lot about Marketing. There's a lot of operations inside marketing that makes marketing more successful. So Dan Marsh Martell buy back your time. Have you heard of that one?
I've just only heard of it probably from another guest a couple weeks ago, but I have not yet read it. Hands down. If you feel swamped right now in your business yeah. If you feel swamped and you're just like, I need to be doing this to grow the business, but I'm stuck in the business. That's the book you wanna rebuy back your time, a real understanding of how time really is more valuable than money. And so I'd say that's another great one. Yeah. Great leverage point.
Definitely appreciate the opportunity to grab your guide. We'll put that information in the show notes below. So definitely if you're listening right now, you want that to check book out on Instagram. Show notes. Appreciate that. I got a question for you about family, and then we'll wrap this thing up. Yep. We both know the word obsession. We worked for a guy that was pretty obsessed. And I'm all about it. I love obsession. I I am obsessed. You are obsessed.
Yeah. And and entrepreneurs are obsessed with their business, but I wanna know how you've been obsessed with family at the same time as doing all these incredible things of this. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. By the way, I was not as obsessed before I worked in the Grand Carlin Network. As I am now. I give him so much kudos for sorta. You know, look, 20 years of corporate life, and he was like, let's go fast. And I was like, cool. This guy is a bitch. He taught me to step my game up.
I think the biggest thing he taught me was accountability. You know, it's just so easy to slip into complacency and point fingers in other places. You know, so you can look at, like, sure. There's leaders eat last and a lot of other great leadership books on this. But Sure. But, like, he really teaches accountability. And and so one of those things is family, family, and accountability are big to me. Yep. I honestly now more than ever more focused. My kids are at that perfect age.
I've got, let's see, 5 8. No. 5, 7, and 9. That's what I got. 5, 7, and 9. And they're in the prime, man. Like, Dan class, soccer games, baseball, football, theater class. So I'm really big on Chaz being my purpose. My legacy is to show my kids how to create their own success. I think the challenges were taught and brought up in a world where you have to go to college and you have to get a corporate career.
Good job with a steady 401 k. And I wanna teach my kids to be self starters and create their own their their own legacy. Yeah. And, you know, so my nine year old has a dog business. He made, like, $2000 last summer walking dogs in the condo out here in Arizona. Yeah. And so, you know, I mean, at not I wasn't making a $1000, you know. Nope. Not at all. I was in summer camp goofing off. So That's right. That's right. That's, yeah, that's kind of my thing.
You know, I I I'm big on family and spending more time with them. A lot of the reasons I went off to start my own agency was because, you know, that 10 x network is such a grind. You don't always have time for That's right. Personal and family. I would never take back my time there because I wouldn't be as successful today with my business Chaz I not done 3 years there. But Oh, yeah. I knew it was time to build my own thing and Yep. And more time with family at the same time. Yeah. Understood.
I love that. Last question here for you, Buck. If you could reach back into time, whisper to the younger buck. What would you tell him? It's a good question. I normally I would probably say start a business sooner. Because I was an accidental entrepreneur. Yeah. I did not want to start a business. I literally had a client dump cash in my lap. Yeah. Come take it. And by the way, I do not think. I do not think. So if you're young right now, I don't know.
This is kinda anti Gary B maybe, but I do not think if you're young, you should start your own business. I just don't. I think you should be in the corporate space. You should experience another startup. You yeah. There's perspective. Take somebody else's money to fail. Yeah. Before you start your own, you go start your own business at eighteen years old. Very rare. Now I I've seen it. I got a landscaping business I used to work with these Twin Brothers were eighteen and nineteen years old.
They did, like, $4,000,000 1 year just landscape. Right? Pure pure need, you know, in the marketplace, and they were just there. And hustle hard to serve. It's hustle. Yep. Yeah. So I'm not saying you can't, but I would say consider spending years in the craft and use someone else's dollars to craft in what you are, how you do it, how they do it, following those footsteps, So but I did it for 20 years. I think I could have done it for 15. So I probably you you know, that's the thing.
Most people don't have the balls. It's scary. The liability falls on you. That should go out and be an entrepreneur, and that's why, you know, it's a risk reward thing. The reward is massive, but so is the risk. Yeah. And some people get eaten for lunch on the risk side. So I get it. People are afraid to do it, but I would say you know, probably probably bail out sooner. But it's hard to say that, man, because had I bailed out sooner? I wouldn't have had 3 years at the 10 x network. You know?
Yeah. So so I went straight from agency life. I was working at the world's largest agency with 40,000 employees, WPP, It was agency was called Wunderman Thompson, JWT, and Wunderman, we brought them both together 2 massive agencies. And and so I went straight from there to Cardone, but I knew, like, it it was my time to start something. You know? Yep. I received Chaz, Buck. Have you given us your Instagram? Any other ways that we can reach you or that you wanna direct us to.
Obviously, if they're a business owner over a million, they can apply to work with you. If they're not, they can get your guide and start creating content anything else for us to connect. Everybody should get the guy. That's right. That's right. Start creating content that actually drives cash and revenue, but Now Instagram's the best for me. Literally, my mom will text me. I don't answer. I'm like, mom, Instagram me. I'm faster on VM. You know? I love it.
Yeah. Because state, man, well me on, man. This is this is a great podcast. I love what you're doing to help entrepreneurs. This is really cool. I appreciate you being here. You gave so much value here today, and I just the re ignition of of just us, floored Chaz we had this time together, and, I'll take this energy and apply it to good stuff here this week myself. So thanks for giving up to the listeners. Blessings to you and your family, your kiddos. All that you're touching here in 2023.
Thanks for being here. Thank you, bro. Appreciate it. Alright. Thank you for listening to Gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1000 Kings specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you sharp qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gathering the king's dot com.
I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.