On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. She goes, do you wanna know the difference between you and me? I was a little scared to get this. Yeah. Seriously. And she goes, The only difference between you and me is I acted. Oh, and that was, like, taking a knife and sticking it in my back. And she was like, she's right. Like, you have the idea. You just haven't gone after it. And that's it. Yeah. Do you have the guts to go? What's up, everybody?
I'm Chaz Wolfe gathering the king's podcast coming at you. I'm your host. Today, I've got E. J. Bowen here on the king stage. My brother, E. J. How doing? I'm I'm good. It's good morning. Good Monday. It's always a good morning, and it's always a good Monday. You know? I don't know about you if you take the the weekend to to do family stuff, but I typically do. And so I'm, like, chomping at the bit Mondays to get back to it. So here we are. Ready to rock and roll. For sure.
The chief on the side Chaz a beer. Good, man. We're glad that you're here. Tell us what kind of business that you have. So I I have a I'm not just a single entrepreneur. I do several things. Which kinda like what we were talking about earlier. Like, I think that's most unfamiliar where we have a little bit of ADD in us. That's right. Healthy or not. We don't know. Yeah. Maybe maybe.
Yeah. So but so, basically, I I have several things in my first foray into doing own thing was I I own a restaurant. K. So I own a fast food restaurant that does pretty well. Then we have from there, I I started a an IT consulting company probably 4 or 5 years ago, pre COVID, and then it evolved significantly during COVID. I'm sure. And then from there, I I took in I started doing some things on Amazon, and so we've designed manufacturing, sell things on Amazon.
Okay. And then my last thing that we work on is kind of coming back to my IT consulting company, but it's more of a a company that does we call it fractional labor, fractional executives, fractional leadership. It's where small of its size companies need help with call it a CFO, but they can't afford a full plan 1. They need more for 5 or 10 hours a week, then we we have we've built up a large network of people that like to work on the fraction.
And so we do it from across all business units and everything like that. So Love it. You know, that's the gamut of what I do today. I'm sure it'll change tomorrow, but It's just the way the way we're all set. Yeah. Well, I I can appreciate that. Like, we're talking about before the the recording started, you know, being a serial entrepreneur is I I you're right. I think a lot of entrepreneurs are like that. It's tough to be, I think, a successful serial entrepreneur because of the ADD. Right?
Like, the same thing that got us into multiple pots is the same thing that keeps us in multiple shallow pots as opposed to having real depth and real real success and real wealth in those. So I definitely wanna maybe pick your brain on some of those things that tell you've used overcome that here in the past, but before we get started too much, my first question's always the same, and it's about, like, what's beating on the inside of you.
So for EJ, what wakes you up in the morning the bigger picture? What's the burning desire? What is all what's the what's the inner part say? Now, you know, it it's kinda funny you you asked that question. So when I was a kid, I wasn't the best student, you know, when I was younger. Maybe that's a lot of entrepreneurs. I mean, I I did fine, but I was not your a plus student. And when I was younger, I had some I had one one teacher. I mean, I was in probably in 6th grade or something like Chaz.
They're they're talking to me. Like, what do you wanna be when you when you're older? Like, all I, I mean, I wanted to be an inventor, and I didn't know what that meant. I just wanted to create things. Right? And Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool when you have cool teachers that wanna help push you, right, and just help you get from where you are to where you potentially wanna be. And she bought me this book.
Of just creating stuff, you know, taking paper and plastic and things and just creating scenes and I started doing that. And I think Wolfe. What was the biggest challenge when I was working for companies was I never felt like I was creating something. I was always creating someone else's something. And so what gets me up in the morning now is I want to create something that's mine, and I wanna create something that's new that helps other people. And I'll I'll give you kind of an example.
I mean, so I I'm a pretty recent dog owner. And I have 2 of them now because you once you have one, you need another. Like, if it's like They need a friend. But what I like, it just kind of an example is, like, I I went out and I was walking dogs, and I had, you know, I I just think I think we all get to think a lot more when moving around and, you know, whether it's exercising, walking, whatever.
And so I came up with just a new type of dog leash and harness that Chaz could work for, for dog owners, which is really a cool process for me. You know, it was, like, kinda going through. It's like, how would we design this? What would this look like? And that was really kind of taking my childhood. Here's a book on how to be an inventor and then being old and going, wait. How would we actually do this and may and Yeah. Utilize it and make it into a print?
So And it's There's a long way of answering your question, but, you know No. I think, yeah, it's the it's the story behind it, and and I think that there's a lot of inventors listening. There's also a lot of people that aren't. They're very linear in their thinking. They're not very creative, and that's okay. Like, both can be successful in business. We both know that. But for you, particularly, what brings you life is is creating it.
The words that you use there actually resonated with me a little bit. I've never had anybody kinda put it exactly like what you said, which was when I was working for somebody else, I was I wasn't creating. And if I was creating, I was creating their thing, which really probably didn't feel like creating. It was, you know, something else. And so I think that even in my own history, my profile does really good in jobs because I can lead. I can this. I can cross t's.
Like, you know, I'm a great person to work inside of an organization, but I've always had a little bit of, like, a pot stirrer thing about me, which is the entrepreneurialness. Yeah. And it's like, you know, if I felt like I was creating something and I look back at my own history, I'm like, you know, those moments, I've I was just a number. I wasn't create, like, Yeah. I wanna do individualism, you know, which spurs, I think a lot of people listening right now.
So it doesn't have to always look like a new, brand new product, though. No. Not at all. And I'll give you kind of an example too. I have a good friend of mine that used to be an entrepreneurship professor at the University of Utah, and he was 1st in entrepreneur. And then he I think a lot of entrepreneurs wanna give back in that way too.
Like, let me go be an adjunct professor or something, and he actually got a think they call it an EED, like, instead of a PhD. And he he went out and he started teaching and he did all these different things and I clocking him about it. And I'm like, How did you become who you are and what you actually did before this? And he and he goes, because you have patents. Like, what? Why why do you have patents? And I don't.
And he goes, you know, the He's like, the funny thing is is you don't have to be an inventor to have a patent. That's right. You just have to have an idea of a team. And and he's got a bunch, and I have other friends with patents. And, like, that's really kinda what it is. And I'll I'll give you kind of one of the things that got me going.
And, you know, maybe I'm taking this a little off script for you, but, when I was working for a really big company, Cisco Systems, right, really big company, you know, fortune whatever. You know, they'd be 1,000,000,000 and 1,000,000,000 of dollars a year. I was working with this one one woman who lived on Pebble Beach. K? And I'm like, well, shoot. Why are you first of all, why are you here? And second, well, how did you get to live on Pepper Beach?
So it kinda sounds like you've lived my dream of being that person. And she goes, do you wanna know the difference between you and me? I'm like, I'm I was a little scared to get this, but I told her, seriously. And, like, she goes, The only difference between you and me is I acted. Oh, and that was, like, taking a knife and sticking it in my back and she go and it was like, she's right. Like, you have the ideas. You just haven't gone after it. And that's it. So do you have the guts to go?
You know, and and that was that was the opening moment of going, I've been I needed to I need to start being me. In in opening operation. So, anyway, that hoe hopefully, that kinda helps you get get into a little bit of where my brain works and how everything goes. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a huge thing. The guts to Chaz, as she said, you said, is a big part of the initiation. Right? But then you've done a bunch of work, you know, to implement on those things.
And you have it's almost like you have to, like, rehab guts, guts to go again over and over And over, of course, you've had to do that multiple times in multiple different businesses, but even if someone's listening today and they only have one business, they've gotta have guts to go at it again today, at it again this week, at it again this year or month. You know? So I think that there's there's a realness of what you're saying. Don't be a talker, be a doer.
No. It's not and honestly, that's one of my business partners actually. He's like, that cool thing I hear he admires about me, and I'm like, I don't know if I'm that great, but he's, like, he's, like, you don't wait around. It's, like, you it's, like, almost a little bit of you need to go in and being able to to learn and iterate is really being willing to learn and iterate because you're gonna make a lot of mistakes whether you wait 10 years or 1 year.
It's like having like, getting married or having kids, though, you're gonna screw up. Yeah. You know? And the only way you learn is by going through it. Yeah. And you just have to keep iterating. Otherwise, I mean, you'll never get to where you want, guys. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was telling you, actually, before we hit the record button that inside of Gathering the Kings on the mastermind side, we've got this phrase of grateful not done.
And it kind of encapsulates what you were just talking about because if we can be okay with where we're at, we can be grateful. It's not necessarily okay. Content sounds like a little like, not growing. Yeah. But I can be grateful. You know, I can have an understanding and an appreciation for the view that I have now, but if I'm never if I'm not continuing to iterate and go to the next level, then then I'm not growing. I'm not doing what I've been called to do.
In my business, in my marriage, in my family, whatever whatever area of life we're talking about, we should always be trying to go to, you know, the level upon level upon level upon level. I've got a question for you about your your story. You know, you've you've you gave us a little bit there about your, you know, kinda had the the knife and that maybe shoved you off the edge, but what'd you do at that moment?
And then how did that, you know, give us a little bit of snapshot between then and and now today having multiple companies, successful companies? Yeah. You know, it it's and that's a really good question. I mean, because you have to be able to take it from the motivation to to do it just because you're motivated. It doesn't mean you'll do mean, I wanna lose weight, but that doesn't really end up going through. You know?
And, you know, I wanna be, you know, I don't wanna get smarter, but am I reading more bugs? You know, whatever they may may be. And so I'll let me give you I'll take it all the way back up to a long time ago. I was the kid that was at Scott Camp selling candy out of his tent. You know, I had a paper out when I was 10. You know, I I always, like, I didn't grow up in a super wealthy family. It was like, if you wanted something, we Chaz to go get it.
And then, you know, you go through, you go through school. Everyone's telling what what you need to be. You need to Right. You know, go go to college. You need to get an MBA. You need to get all of these things. And the thing is is all of those things where they're all great and they all teach you a lot stuff that puts you into this box of going out really to work in corporate America, which is not a bad thing.
I mean, honestly, the majority of the world should go out and work in corporate America. I mean, it's a great thing if not everyone wants to take on the pressures of doing it yourself or, you know, maybe they won't understand the pressures until they try and then maybe they go back. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And so the so it's a little bit of it's it's a little different. And so as I kinda went through all of those that I did all of those things. I got jobs.
Everyone says you should be in finance and you should learn all of these different things. And this is how you become a great a great entrepreneur and The other challenge of Chaz, though, is you keep making more and more money and you keep being moved up in these different companies. Exactly. You get the hand cut. Right? You know, like, how am I going to replace 2, 3, $400,000 a year? Like, how am I gonna do that in in the short answer is you're not.
I was just thinking that my mind going, good luck. Yeah. I mean, gonna be another 10 years, and you're gonna replace it after that time, but you have to be willing to step back and say, it's okay. You have to get to the point where like, you know, it doesn't matter. You know, now you even talk to a lot of different people where it's like, man, I can make all this money working for other people. Why do you work harder when they glass or do whatever it ends up being?
And and you're like, yeah, but I'd think you really get it. You're you're going to work because you wanna make money. I wanna go to work to create. Yeah. I don't wanna just, you know, push paper or sell product or whatever. I wanna do something that that I leave behind. I don't care what my LinkedIn profile says. If I'm a VPC, whatever, it doesn't really matter. Right? So what ended up happening then? So that kinda takes me up to making a lot of money and trying to figure this thing out.
And so This is the way every story should start, but I was in Bali with my wife just sitting on the mountainside and and just kinda What have I done? You know? That's awesome. And and it was that moment where it was like, okay. But the same question, you know, that I or a stupid thing that I sent before, where you don't have to be a creator to own something or build something. You don't have to do it because I'm not a I'm not a developer. You know, I'm not an engineer.
I'm not the, you know, the things that, you know, you always look at. So I need to beat this to create something. Right? And and the answer is that's truly just not true, but it's hard to get past that. It's like, what can I do as a person who knows this thing over here so that I can become something that I want to be? And at the beginning, it was like, well, shoot. Let's, you know, that's when my restaurant came out. You know, I started going down the path.
I'm like, well, what if I were to go out and be an owner operator or a Chick fil A? You know? So I actually interviewed for that. Yeah. But but out of the 170,000 people they interviewed and, you know, 100 that got an actual, you know, franchise, I was not one of And that was, like, kinda started opening my mind. Taking a path and taking the initiative of how can I become different and lead my own life? That was, like, the first step. Yeah. And I have a I have a great wife.
She she's always helping pushing me along. And she she actually went out and found a whole bunch of business brokers. And so this is the point where you like, okay. Well, maybe you can find something that I can drive myself that maybe be a can be a little bit more passive. You know, I don't have to buy a job. You know, I can keep doing what I'm doing, but I can have something that kinda goes up. And so at that point, we found one pretty close to where we live, do it.
It looked like the numbers make sense. So we bought. Not knowing what we were being an institute, but we bought. Yeah. You thought it was gonna be something, but it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. The numbers, like, the 1 the one piece of advice I always tell people when they're buying a buying a business is not like I'm just I'm just gonna tell you this right now.
It's not what it shows on paper, you know, because there's all sorts of things that are moving around and and not that they're lying, but they're manipulating or tweaking the numbers to make it look the best they could possibly make it look. Yeah. And so it's not that it was bad. It was it was fun. We had a a a full time manager that wanted to stay on. So that worked out really Wolfe, that was luck. You know, if he did a really great job, that's kind of a key in any business.
I'm not sure you've seen this with everything you know. If you don't have a good manager, then it's your job, and then it's it's just really hard to do everything. Yep. Yeah. And we grow it. A ton. Like, we took it for anything doing a half a 1,000,000 to $1,200,000 a year. And, yeah, and it became a really great little little business that we put in, I don't know, 10 hours a month, you know, looking at the books and checking in on things and and making good money. Right?
And and that that was kind of, like, the first step in, like, oh, okay. I can do this. This is, like, the 1st piece of, like, confidence that I was looking forward. It's like, I can I can do this? Yep. Even though I lost a lot of sleep. Uh-huh. Get them back. So, you know, you're you're gonna lose a lot of sleep and going, well, what if this goes wrong? What if someone walks in and, like, in in this case, it was we weren't a 100% ADA compliant, but it was an old building.
It was, like, a 1976 building. You know, like, well, technically, yeah, we get a little bit of grandfathering in, but at the time, there was a person who was going around with their in, like, with the tape measure and measuring as your bathroom worked or the, you know, the countertop was, you know, low enough for which it should be. I mean, we should absolutely take share of everybody, but but sometimes it's not something that you can really can control.
And so I can I ended up making some investments so I could sleep at night and change the So that could make it Wolfe? But but those are the kinds of weird things that you don't think about when you go to work every day because you're just doing the job you do. You don't think about Well, what if someone suits me? You know, what how is this going to work out if this if this goes wrong? And so So those are those are just little pieces. So I kept working. I kept doing my my job at Cisco.
I moved into some other stuff and got more into Chaz. More deeply the IT. And then that's where it was more like, okay. I I know the business side, and that's where I could start up. This is more where I actually had a health incident where I was laying in a hospital bed. Wow. And I I looked, I basically laid there, and I'm like, you know what? 10 years from now, I look back 10 years and I go, wow. I really failed. It really sucked at being an entrepreneur. I Wolfe be mad.
Like, I'm not gonna be mad. That's fine. Like, but if I look back 10 years from now and I didn't try, I'm gonna be Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And so that yeah. So at that moment, I I started building up a business plan to create a systems in a systems integration company. COVID hit. Total changed everything.
You know, turned it into more of a, you know, call it a brokerage, and I High End, the IT labor type of, you know, company just kind of started really building that thing up into something that it could be. And Yeah. You know, and that was where I'll tell you the thing where I truly got the confidence that I could do it was the first day somebody paid me something to do something for them. Where it was more like, you know what?
Wolfe for real now, we actually we had a company that makes 1,000,000 of dollars give me money that they need to invest in something. Yep. Yeah. So then it was like, no. We could do this. We just need to do it more. Yep. Yeah. We just kept building it up and finding opportunities and finding different ways to market. And then it was that was more of, like, that full confidence of, like, yeah, we could do this and we can replicate it and we could do it.
Yeah. You've given I mean, obviously, you got a you got a great story, just a different types of experience and even just the overcoming with the restaurant. A lot of truth there. We can probably do a whole podcast on Yeah. Just the service, hospitality industry, but my question for you in some of these years, especially as you were talking about, well, we did this and we needed more and so we did this, we did that. What are some of the practicals? Like, what's a good decision that you made?
That helped you scale that or helped you just put that thing together now for multiple years. Something that maybe we could take away and put in our own business. I mean, there's a a lot of them. I mean, I think I think a big thing with in the beginning was was trusting people, you know, trusting that they can do their job and it I mean, watch and make sure that they're doing their job too, but don't be that micromanager and let them be their innovator Wolfe. You get the things down.
That would be more having a good manager in the service industry, right, maybe so that we can get out and get it done right. I will tell you in as you and and you got kind of alluded to this, you know, how do you have multiple companies and and keep it going? And I'll tell you Chaz is the biggest challenge. You know, that is that's a massive challenge because then you end up being a jack of all trades and mediocre at all. And so you have to find a miss to multiply yourself. That's right.
And and so whether it's using your virtual assistants, finding people that wanna come in as a partner Chaz will, you know, kinda go at risk, deciding when you want to take, you know, when you should be investing in any of your own money into a into a business for people or process or technology. And we've all wasted money doing that, but finding the right things and and understand that you're talking to people that have been there and done that so that you can minimize your mistakes. You know?
And so So, yeah, I mean, the big thing is, like, finding ways to multiply yourselves, whether it's through people, process, or technology so that you can be more efficient. I mean, if you look at it even today, just in the last 6 months with things like Chaz GPT that have come out, right, being able to leverage that kind of stuff to just make yourself and your companies more efficient. Those are the kinds of things that you're looking for, whether it's a technology or a person or whatever.
I mean, so that's that's probably the biggest thing, you know, to make every So Yeah. It's a huge point of leverage, really, which is breaking down, but I I I so appreciate your perspective towards it not just being people. Of course, you can build teams and and people themselves are it's a collaboration of leverage. Right? Like, you're giving something to them. They're giving something to you. It leverages the effort for you to be able to scale. But in addition to that, it's technology.
It's systems. It's SOPs. It's things that are written down. It's things that, you know, maybe maybe I learned something today on this show from you that then I go implement. Like, I have to be able to put myself in proximity to people, systems, you know, nuggets, you know, all of it is is leverage. And so I just really appreciate that perspective. Let's flip the coin here. I wanna know of a bad choice. Something that you did. I mean, There's probably plenty of them. You got a lot of businesses.
So Bad choices. I mean, here's here's the number Wolfe. So You gotta get into business. If you're gonna go alone, that's fine. That's hard. Usually, you're going with a partner. It it's like a marriage, and you better make sure that that partnership is right. And so I have my where I absolutely appreciate my first partner for helping me have the confidence to go. Right? It was not the right fit. And it was probably more because I wanted it so bad that I was willing to just take it. That's right.
And he knows it Which is part of the story, though. Right? Like, you Yeah. If you if you hadn't done that, you wouldn't be where you are. Exactly. And it's and it doesn't take anything away from him. He's a great person. Like, we just we're not a really good fit. And I and I kinda came up with this this thing when you're looking through with partnerships, There's really three things it's gonna hit on. K? K. You know, first, you both have to be as much in as the other one.
Because if one person's gonna do more work than the other, someone will always be angry. You both have to have the same risk or financial investment in it, or, again, someone will either feel like they are more invested and the other will may feel like they're an employee. Right. Because you're, you know, I'm taking the rest and you're not. Therefore, I need you to bust your butt, and I'm gonna watch you.
I and if you don't all have the same level of risk, then it's it just either gonna work really well. Yeah. And then the last one for me and and this, you know, take it for what it's worth or anyone who's, you know, listening, but you gotta have the same understanding of business. You know, or at least almost like a fernible that you need to be able to get over on on the business level.
I don't I mean, I I joke around about this today with with some people, but it's almost like, don't come to me and say everything's a write off, you know, just write it off. Because it's not. Right? Because it's not. Like, you've spent money, and that's not a write up that's called an expense. And so it's, like, it's just it's like basic things like that. You need to have, like, this basic level of business acumen to where you can go, okay. I get it.
That's why we would make decisions like this or not make a decision in this other direction. And if you can hit on all of those, obviously, you gotta get along and Those are, I mean, you're never gonna get business with any of those other ones. The the problem is the things that you can't see below the surface which usually probably creates a partnership that just goes south. And you I I would guess that most entrepreneurs have one.
Or have a story where it just didn't work, but you you gotta have your simple rules of partnerships. Yeah. If you don't clear this, Yeah. I'm not we we it's not gonna work. We're just gonna end up having a bad day, so let's not do it. K. Yeah. Those are really tough conversations. And I think anybody who's been through it, knows it, but for the guy or gal listening right now that has never been through it, it's like, it it makes sense. Like, I hear you.
Okay. EJ, this, this, this, this, but when you sit down at the table, to discuss what happens when x doesn't happen, or how much is the time that I put in so far actually worth? So that we can be equally yoked. How much do you need to put in, like, the these are, like, real conversations that you have to be, like, in alignment before you can even get to the place that you're talking about. Yep. And it's like, man, you gotta, like, muck through that type of conversation because it's real.
There's emotions. There's people. It's sticky. You know? There. I invented this. It was my idea. I did this, you know, taking my thing away. And you're like, I mean, no. Yeah. That dude doesn't wanna partner, though. Like, let's just be honest. The guy that's saying that out loud doesn't wanna partner. He wants to do it himself. And and being equally yoked is important. Like you said, it's like a marriage. How can how could we be if we're not on each other's team, like, literally.
Yeah. And it's it's a it's a challenge. And, yeah, and, you know, and I think every partnership has its day where you know, you gotta have a conversation, but, you know, the the question is more like, are you set up into the point where when you have to have tough conversations, like in a marriage, I mean, shoot, We all screw up, and we're all mean sometimes, you know, in some more than others. Yeah. We we don't mean we don't meet it, and we yelled our kid.
We do something that we're like, hang on. I really shouldn't have done that. You know, we all have to have these conversations in lives and and just remember when you have to have that conversation or business, it's no different in them. It honestly, it may even be more emotional because You're telling me about people's livelihoods and how everything can work. And at Chaz at some point, you have to go, you know what? This just isn't right.
You know, maybe we should we should break up and, you know, walk go separate ways, and that's okay. And I think that's probably a learning learning piece too, because I was I I probably knew a long long before it didn't work out Chaz it wasn't going to work out. And it's kind of having that cough in Mexico. You know what? I'll figure it out. You know? I'll figure out things I don't know, but I don't think this is working. And I think we need to probably move. So move move on.
Yeah. You gotta do what's right. Hey, Kings and Queens. Chaz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too.
So we would love if you would like, comment share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things on social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify. We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as as possible. Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this.
Let's help each other. Let's help each other grow. Yeah, man. I think that there's a lot of great value in putting together, you know, equally yoked partnerships like we're talking about. I think that there's, you know, there's real work is, in essence, what you're saying, that goes into that. And the time, like, Those things often don't just happen with somebody you met last week. No. No. Not you. And if you did meet last week, I would suggest just, you know, maybe date a little while.
Yeah. Pitch Packaging. It's good stuff, man. Okay. So I gotta ask you a KPI question. I love I love this question. In all of your businesses, I'm not even gonna ask you one particular one. I wanna know high, high level. What is the one thing that you would track if you could only pick 1? Upon me, and they all tied together.
It's like they all rolled down, but I, I mean, I mean, my first my gut response to profitability, you know, your EBITDA or something like Walmart along those lines because if you're not making money, why aren't you doing it? But I have seen a me out there too that said, you know, the there was a a picture of a guy smashing a keyboard next to someone else. I think it was the account and saying, yeah, profitability before it grow. New while I do need to be able to grow.
And in order to if you're only just taking money out, then then you don't have the ability to grow. But but I think it I think it's more like you need to be it it's like, what's your EBITDA? And then after that, it's where are you going to invest to grow? So it it'd be kind of like a balance between the two. Yeah. Yeah. I received that. I think that's it's not what you make. It's what you keep. Right? That's the EBITDA question or the EBITDA thought.
But if If if we're making money just to keep the money and not to grow the money, that doesn't sound like an investment. No. So No. And you're not pushing. I mean, I actually, I'll tell you, like, this is where and sorry if I'm taking you off here to cure again, but This is kind of where, like, an employee doesn't understand being an entrepreneur. Right. Like, when an when someone hires somebody, they're making an investment to grow their business.
But when an employee gets hired, they think that they're being hired to just do a specific job, and that's where a lot of times when risk certificates were, like, the 6 factor? Like, what why why do we need to have success? Like, well, it's because the only reason we hired that person or that role was so that we could grow the company Yeah.
And and it's and you don't really I don't know that you really see that until you're either really high up in a company or you're running it or you're running your own, and it's every dollar that you invest is not going in your own bank account. Yeah. You're right. And and I'm not sure how many employees listen, but for the business owner who doesn't yet understand that there's a gap between themselves and their employees.
So are there any tactical ways that you've been able to show your your folks I mean, I know I've done certain things with my with my people to help them try to understand this, you know, but anything that you've done specifically you could share? I mean, it it's the lower level, you know, ground workers probably aren't gonna understand it really well. You have a better chance of your manager and understand it again.
And it's really just going through numbers that we show like, how are you gonna grow and and what you're looking at? Kinda like what we're just talking about looking at the EBITDA and then what you're going to invest back in.
And being able to show them that the only way they we can afford to give raises or bonuses is if we do actual ends the and it's because they're they're just interested in money, you know, and then I think just kinda helping them see the pictures as an owner is I would believe the easiest or best way for them to go, okay. It clicked. Okay. We need to do this in order so that I can get a bonus, or I can get this. We don't get bonuses for fun.
You know, we get bonuses for value, and that's where, you know, things should kinda come in. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. There's actually two pieces there. The the initial investment of the person salary or the hourly wage, and that is an investment because this although the task is needed, it's money that the owner is saying, well, I'm gonna choose not to do that myself or ask you to do it. On top of what you're already doing, I'm gonna we're gonna pay somebody else.
So it it is an investment, actually, same as Chaz a marketing campaign or whatever. Yep. But then there's also the Yeah. The piece of the value of the bonus is there. I love that. I love trying to correlate. If I do this, then this is the result. And how can I teach my people to think like that? I think that that's a great And, also, too, what that what's that's the beginning foundation of, and and this isn't necessarily a motivating factor for everybody, but it has been a huge part for me.
Is that if I can help someone on my team understand what what you just said, then at some point one day, potentially, they have now the wherewithal to go run their own business. Yep. Exactly. A 100%. And if they're designed to do that and I was able to help them, why I mean, now I I would be robbing them and me of this moment of being able to be part of that story. You know? I think it think of this with so, like, in the last 18 months, it's been really interesting. Just with with inflation.
Right? And so people started coming to me, and I'm sure it come to all of the, you know, your listeners were like, I need to make more money or, you know, I made this and, you know, and I shouldn't make this now. Right. And in a lot of ways, you couldn't get away without at least raising some stuff. Right? But there's there's still with that level of going like, yeah. But we like, I am making a lot less now because we can increase prices enough to keep up with inflation. To do this.
So there's a there's a gap in helping people be able to see, like, yeah. Inflation, it sucks, you know, for all of us. You know, it's not great. Almost your hand. Yeah. And it's like yeah. Exactly. It's like, it feels like he can make it less full right with you, man. You know? But being able to sit down and go, yeah. I mean, there just isn't more because of this. And maybe if we do this, we can then continue to, you know, have other employees. Understood. Sorry.
Yeah. The last thing that you just put it up with a listener is that when you said there just isn't more, like, that that baseline, it seems so simple that you would just say that there isn't more. But a lot of times, employees, like you said, don't have the recognition of that there's not just, like, a tree with money Chaz, you know, just things pull off of on on on just Benjamin's flowing on me. You know? It's not like that. Not a problem.
But but in my experience, they often think that it is like that. They don't, like, actually think that there's a tree out back that produces money, but they think that there's just, like, the this endless account or this endless AmEx or something. We just keep swiping it. And Chaz will take care of it, or EJ will take care of it. And Yep. And they haven't thought outside of themselves more more than likely. Far enough, to realize that, like, hey. It's not because I don't like you.
It's an in fact, I actually really like it, and I would love to do this. But in order to be able to do that, we gotta do this because here are the numbers. X and x equals this and and once, like I said, once that clicks for them, and so I'm encouraging a listener to have these types of conversations with their employees, if they're not, especially the upper level management like you talked about because if if if they understand, then it's like, oh, okay.
I know how I know how to operate forward like an owner so that there can be real money there so that we can share in it. Yeah. Exactly. How do you last question here on that before we move on. How do you how do you communicate to them that you do wanna share, right, and then that you're not just trying to, you know, squeeze it all and take it all yourself? I read it actions speak louder than words. Right?
You know, just little little things and being able to give them back things when they're not expecting.
Yeah. Little Christmas bonuses or, you know, I mean, even in something is, you know, simple as only a small restaurant, right, giving out newly tickets or, you know, something that's really simple to just show that, you know, yep, we want you to be happy and we want you to have things, you know, It's I think it's I think it's in the little thing that they see that you want to be sharing in the big page. K. Yeah. Yeah. It's the intentionality.
Think that actually that principle you just shared carries over every single relationship that we can think of in our own lives is just being intentional even with the small things. A lot of times, small things are actually much more important, like you're saying, if done intentionally. Yeah. I got a question for you about business resources. I wanna know what you've read, what you've listened to, what what can you share with us here today Chaz has been beneficial to you. Rhian.
I'll tell you the the most this is the most recent one Chaz I'd have to kind of probably go back and look at lists and stuff, but There there's a podcast not to compete with your podcast, but That's alright. There's a podcast called Yeah. It's called marketing school. Love it. And it's the the yeah. There's these 2 guys that basically have their own ad agencies have been at it. Sure. They You know, you said you're at the 300 levels of of podcasts during the I think they're at, like, 3000 levels.
They've been doing it since, you know, like, 2015 in the video for a long time. And and they are 8 to 12 minute, like, blips of information. Yeah. And just, like, here's what we're gonna talk about today. Here it is. It's cool. Doesn't take a lot to to listen to them, but you can always take out what you know, the the nugget for you that you need to change when it comes to, like, business books or resources, a lot of it's just reminders. Like, I think we've all kinda been there and done Chaz.
Heard it. Tried it. But then it's more like, oh, yeah. That's been on my list for a long time. Let's do it. You know? And, like, simple things. Well, I mean, I actually Here's one thing I'd I took the I I talked about chat GPT earlier, but I took a course on chat GPT back in January. Because I wanted to just understand better how to use it. Right? And one of the things was Like, because you have the ability to go out and create content.
Now remember, Chaz PT is limited by the ability of the person who's creating information. And it it was more like everyone should write a book. Everyone should be out there. You should be a published author because you Chaz. Yeah. And so that was one of those things where, you know, it was like the uh-huh. Yeah. We can out I'll go I'll go out there. I'll go out there.
I can blog the sewer articles or whatever, but there's There we have the ability to go out and actually create a short buck on whatever it is that we do or whatever, and you can post it on Amazon Kindle. And you can now you have you were a published author. And now who are they gonna work with? The person who's the published author or the person who's not? Like, Wolfe, that's kinda cool. You gotta book your problem will Wolfe pretty smart. Now, obviously, it's a little bit of it.
It's a lot small gimmick, but but on the other hand, make sure your pop tank is good, and you you curate it, make sure everything is, you know, strong in there. And then at the end of the day, you have something that you can point back to that makes you an expert. And at least, how stupid figure an expert. Yeah. And it's about iteration. You talked about this already. You don't just, you know, give a couple of prompts and copy paste. I mean, you could. Yeah. But if if you understood yeah.
It's garbage. It's not exactly what you wanted it to say, but if you can if you can work with it, I'm a say manipulate, but that's, I guess, the the right term. Yeah. Massage. There you go. Then then it can be yours. You just have you have an assistant, and I think that's the leverage of that tool. So It's actually a great deal. So not only did I write down the the podcast where that started, but the book deal is quite inspiring. So I appreciate that.
There's a couple that I have on my list that I'm that I'm writing. So I just I just sped up my Right over. Get it down. I love it. Yeah. And, actually, I finally am getting I'm getting on one right now that I just I've been waiting on, and it's like, yes, it doesn't gotta get done. So so, again, Yeah. It's interesting. One of the books I wanna write.
I'm not a 100% sure of the title, but something like I interviewed a $1,000,000,000, and this is what it told me because I've interviewed so many guys like you 100100 of 1,000,000 of dollars, if not a few 1,000,000,000 at this point. And it's like, there is some major lessons. And then I have the to look at going, wow. I can bring all these into about 13 success principles. Well, I'll tell you. So and, yeah, This is something at the end.
I probably get by doing my teacher's sauce, I shouldn't, but here's something that's been very helpful when it comes from the IT side. I actually reach out to, you know, business owners and CEOs and everything and basically say, hey. I would like to interview you and write an article on you because I am writing a book, and I want stories that I could take into the input into that book. And Right.
Most people are pretty vain, and they'll, you know, they'll let you talk to him for 30 or 40 minutes. And And then you write an article on that specific person in that discussion and what you learned, kind of similar to what you're doing here. And then now you have all of this content that you've not created, Chaz you can then aggregate and then create, you know, with some next level type of type of learning situation.
So And then the fun part about that too is you just interviewed a owner about whatever topic is you wanted, and now you have another friend that when you wanna reach out and say I wanna sell something, you have another friend that you gotta go back to and go, hey. You know, would this be valuable to you? So so here. Yeah. You're creating relationships creating value, both of which you just said by reaching out and offering something of value at no cost, which, you know, is Yep.
How relationships are built. That's not how they're sustained because you can't you can't it can only it can't just be one-sided value, but Yes. To your point, if you're if you're really good at what you do, ideally, that person wants to do the next thing with you anyway. Exactly.
And what's I I'm gonna I'm gonna change course here, and I wanna talk about family and and and the word session because I think the word balance is ridiculous, and and I throw it out of the window pretty much anytime I can talk about it. And so instead, I feel I feel work life obsession. And so the obsession in your businesses is is the same as what's gonna make you successful in your family and your marriage, all that fun stuff. And so we just got back from Bermuda.
We did a family mastermind cruise, and we did some deep marriage work with with some certified folks. And And I talked about this idea of work life obsession. What have you done in your story, EJ? Where you've been obsessed about those things, wife kids, other things in life that you love Chaz alongside of the businesses. No, man. Because that's the shared question. So I I have a little bit of a an alternative family.
My wife and I both adopted we adopted Eastern European Orphan as a as teenagers. And so I think we didn't really have much of a choice, but to be obsessed with trying to get them from point a to point b because they're coming in with significantly less education. Obviously, can't speak the language. Challenges in their lives that, you know, we've never ever hopefully never will have to experience.
And so You have to create an obsession with with improvement in giving them everything you can because you're getting them at fourteen, fifteen years old, and you've only got some some of the instill knowledge and amount. There has to be a balance with Chaz, though. K?
So it's kinda like the if you push too hard, you know, breaks on the other side, So it's it's more of, like, understanding where you need to be pushing and when you need to be kicking off the gas or your foot out the gas and, you know, coasting a little bit and being able to to to balance that a little bit. But, you know, so, basically, what I would say, you know, I always probably obsess with one of my kids being, you know, a field goal kicker, and he was really good.
He was ranked at top 5 in the nation, you know, and And if so, we would, like, try trying to instill him, you know, how you get from being the kid who's on the team to the kid who plays through the kid who's who's great. And so I would say that that's palpably a little bit. And and and I had to learn in there too on how I when do I need to, like I said, put on the gas, put on the brakes, coast, anything like that too. So Yeah. I think I can kinda go into everything you're doing in our lives.
If we obsess too much, it can it can also hurt. Yeah. Yeah. I think the the obsessive nature can also be become suffocating is what you're referring to. And so, yeah, there's there's no air. There's no oxygen. There's no life when you set up the area where it is. So that's good, man. I really appreciate the perspective and cool cool for you and and your family to be able to not only have those experiences, but adoption is kind of a a crazy process. My wife and I've been through that.
We we didn't officially adopt any children, but you're having troubles getting pregnant and went to that whole entire scenario and then and then boom, we got pregnant. And so, you know, it's an interesting perspective when you open up your mind, heart, home, to a human that's a child. And so you're leading them, but they're not yours, but you love them. It's just a very interesting dynamic. So I just just wanna give you some public adoration for that. I just appreciate your heart for that.
Last question I wanna know if you had the opportunity to whisper in the younger EJ's ear. What would you say? Get the confidence earlier. Don't be afraid. Like, I've had ideas since I was younger, and I think I kind of took you know, one step and then divert it way too early. Like, I should've been doing things earlier. Now it's a little bit easier now today with like the way technology works, but, yeah, don't be afraid. Go for it. What's the worst case that can happen? You have to get a job.
Like, okay. So if you, like, go for it, you know, and, you know, and, obviously, I learned a lot along the way in different companies, you know, different leaders and stuff, but Yeah. I think I probably should have jumped 5 to 10 years earlier, you know, versus way. Yeah. I had a guy in the Gathering King's mastermind group say the other day, he said I've become dangerous where I finally realized I can't fail. And that that realization You can do it. You can get a bump.
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Like, yeah, I no longer have the, like, Oh my gosh. If this all fell apart, then whatever I was thinking before. Because I know I know now that I could get it back, to your point. Well, it'll be the worst case scenario. I'll just go get a job. But even then, I don't even think you and I would do that. We probably just start something new again.
Wolfe, There there was a time when I used to watch the reality TV show, the voice, and there was Adam Levine, the lead singer from marine 5, said something basically to all of the, you know, performers. Like, you know, if you wanna be if you wanna be a musician, you can't have a plan b. And I think it's probably very similar when it comes to if you wanna be an entrepreneur, you can't have a plan b because the problem is Chaz we'll get hard enough at one point that you will take it.
Yeah. Yeah. If you don't have a plan b, you will figure it out. Success has a weird way. Tim Grover kinda talks about this in his book winning, but success has a weird weird way of allowing us to get real real close. And then allowing us an escape route because it's just hard enough, just outside the reach. Yeah. Where we fold. Yeah. But 100%. Total military. Yeah. That's right. Wolfe, good, man. I appreciate you being here. How can the listener find you?
Number 1, you you have a service Like you said, that every entrepreneur could potentially use as a fractional CFO. And then all the other stuff that you've got going on potentially, there's people listening right now that could use that as well. Tell us how to find you in those areas. To even find you as an entrepreneur if we just wanna connect with you? Yeah. I mean, come out, connect with me on, obviously, I'm on LinkedIn.
The the the 2 big websites that you can come back and really see the services. 1 is is your neogigdot com. So yours and y o u r and then neogigneogig.com. That is the the fractional executive, fractional leadership type of service, and then my IT services, where it gets into more of like I key people, similar in that in that similar vein, you know, IT as a service. So an IT people as a service, which is that the company felt Omnilegian technologies, and the website is omnilegion.com.
And so you can I mean, obviously, the the email address is there, ejyarneeeveryig.com, and then the other one that you can get to me at ejomniorizon.com? Perfect. We'll put them in the show notes. Those are the easiest ways. And then, yeah, I'm always wanting conversations. I wanna learn from everybody too. I mean, I, yeah, I have a lot of steering up to do, so I'd rather avoid it if somebody else Chaz help teach me. So That's right. That's right. Love that approach, man.
There's humility in that answer. So thank you for being here. Blessings upon all that you have your hand to here in 23 and your family as well. Thank you for your time. Thank you for listening to Gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and mall different industries and now interviewing over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together one 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you, and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gathering the king's dot com.
Want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.