On today's episode of Gathering McKinsey, all the little things, all those things she wouldn't say matter. They matter. Right? It's just a little extra appreciation and something outside of the box. I feel like it always goes back to some that you want it as an employee, and you never got. Can you see it? You feel it. You think about that. And for you and I, it's fun.
Is fun to see people's reactions to something that you thought about and then took it to that next step and actually executed on it. So it's rewarding as well. You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars from business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be.
We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the real of the real on what it takes to build a successful business today. We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along the way Chaz give a true and accurate picture of the journey of success and how you too can get there. Through this dialogue, you will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and kings like today's guest.
Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe gathering the king's podcast. I've got Jason Hughes here on the king stage. Jason, how we doing? We're doing great, man. Thanks for having me today, Chast. I'm a big fan. You know, I appreciate that. And for the listeners, this is our second go around at this.
The 3, you know, 325 plus episodes, and I have had to rerecord two times because the ether some somewhere out there is our first recording in a cloud. It's it's somewhere. In a cloud somewhere. Who knows? Maybe Zoom's got it. Maybe maybe the Internet. I don't know. Maybe maybe Elon has it. Elon, he took it to Mars. I really don't know somewhere.
And and if they listened to it, they would've gotten some great value, but we're we're gonna do a rerecord here today because it was just too good to pass up. We had to get it recorded again. So I appreciate you coming back to the King stage, my brother. Absolutely. It's gonna be better this time anyway. Right? That's right. That's right. Well, Jason, tell us what kind of business is that you have? Yeah. So I'm in the real estate development business.
We have a business that is a project management company, real estate development for other entities. So I always use the example, we work for sports teams. We work for health care, private ed, data centers as a big firms that we work for as well. And then we have another firm that is development for ourselves, all apartment driven multifamily in the southeast. Yeah. Love that. There's there's some differences in the way those things are developed.
And so maybe maybe you'll be able to speak to that and kinda Yeah. It's, like, doing the same thing, but doing differently. Right. There's some there's some mindset there. I think that's that's required. So I'm gonna try to dig into that a little bit. Be before we get rolling, though, you know, I I'm also curious to know if this question has maybe changed a little bit since the last time we recorded, but I wanna know why. What's the burning desire?
What's inside of Jason so freaking burning hot right now of why you do what you do. You know, it's it's it's it's a passion for me. It it really truly is, and I know that sounds say for somebody who may have not started their business or early in their career or something like that, but it it surely is. Like, I don't look at work as work. I look as it is improvement, you know, a challenge and opportunity to exceed. I look at it in that light every single day, and it's it's honestly become fun.
It wakes me up in the morning. It keeps me up at night. It's it's always a new challenge. How do we get better? How do we do this? And and I really have enjoyed the call it. I don't call it the second half of my career. I'm 24 years into it. I guess I am entering into that second half of my career. I hope, I guess. I hope I'm not working much longer.
But, you know, that that part of it where you're you're becoming more of a mentor and using your experience on a day to day basis and and talking to somebody and and and making them better and making them realize their talents and bringing that out of them that. That's that part becomes really fun on a day to day basis as a as a business owner. You're a freaking king, dude. That's that's kingship right there. It's fun.
You know, it's, you know, it's it's good to get out there and meet more people and bring more one of the company. We, you know, even since the last time we talked, we're over over 40 employees, and and it's it's been fun. I mean, starting with 3 just 4 years ago and growing it to over 40 now. And You know, we're at 1,000,000,000 of dollars of construction that we're we're managing on a day to day basis.
It's a it's a lot of it of exposure experience and stuff like Chaz, but it again, it's gets back to passion and being fun. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, you know, like you said at the beginning, it it feels a little you know, rounded of an answer, but it's real. Like, when when when you're in the shoes and you feel it, you're like, I am living Wolfe. Really, it's probably a good way to say it. Like, My cup is full.
My question to you, I was I was talking to another, you know, high performing business owner just a couple days ago, and we were talking about you know, there's this, like, trick that we play on ourselves of always, you know, wanting more, always moving the goalposts a little bit, you know, always thinking bigger and like you said, just having a passion for just playing the game. Like, I don't wanna I don't want the game to end. I want another 24 years. Like, this is I love the game. Right?
So What's your trick, or what's your, you know, philosophy maybe on moving the goal posts or making bigger goals, or staying engaged. We're 24 years into this industry. You're 4 years into your this specific business, but you're, like, all the way into your career 24 years and going, I'm more excited now. I'm more passionate now. I'm more alive now. I wake up, like, like, it's Christmas every morning now more than ever. How how do you do that?
You know, it's I will and, again, I'm probably giving some cliche answers at the end of the day, but, again, I feel like it's real, which is the employees. You know, I I we've got such good talent. Good people Chaz started this young leadership group within side of the company. And I've got 3 individuals that are a part of it. And I'm I'm just meeting with them and trying to help train them.
It gets me excited watching them because I continue to tell them I don't wanna be me forever, and I don't wanna be the president of this company. I want you guys to have the opportunity to do it, and it's here. I don't know if that's 5 years, 10 years, 15 years but the opportunity is here. And every time you meet, you kinda feel it. You feel it in there, and they want more time.
They wanna understand how where do I get to And when you get into that flow of of feeling and and talking and you see their passion for it, I mean, it just brings it all together at the end of the day for you and go, I gotta do more I want it. They want it. You know? And that's I really think that's just, you know, building that culture inside of the recipe.
And I know, and, again, a cliche word but I am waking up and going to bed as the last first thought last thought every day is the company culture and just building it for everybody that shows up, and I love seeing everybody wants to come to the office. They don't have to come to the office. They want to be there. Yeah. Yeah. We in our last recording that, you know, maybe one day we'll find. We talked a lot about this. We'd Chaz was that was a good chunk of what we talked Yeah.
And and I remember the passion then about your people and just really obsessing over culture Wolfe you say, like, maybe there's, like, steps here of of the business owner who's listening? Tell me if you agree with this, or maybe if you would move some of these steps around, but based on our last conversation and what I'm hearing you say now, it's aligning with what I think about culture. Like, yes, it's cliche, but we can't just brush it off because it's cliche.
It's in essence, the the the peak thing that a CEO can do. And I think right below that is probably marketing. Right? Like, you have to be able to you gotta be able to grow your business. Right? Sales and marketing kinda go together, but really marketing. But but that last, like, thing to master or or really that you're gonna live in as the king or the CEO or the the visionary, whatever you wanna call yourself the leader of the business.
That's the last, like, notch that you're really you're gonna live in for quite some time, and it's culture, and that sounds cliche But would you agree with, like, that's kinda like you, I mean, start the business. You grow the team. You gotta get good at this, this, that, you know, kinda all the way up the ladder, but that last, like, I gotta make sure I'm really good on this for, like, a long time. Yeah. 100%.
I mean, I I I think last time you were talking, I said something to our director of marketing words, how did it go? All that kind of stuff. And one of the things I said to her was, you know, one thing I said that I I wanted to make sure that we embody in our company is execute the cliche. Like, because good. You you talk about it. And, again, you you get lost in this cliche thing in cultures. So I said, you know, when we do meetings, There's gotta be intent, right, in any business you're in.
There's intent to the meeting. There's purpose to the meeting. There's there's you need to create value in the meeting when you as an individual run. Right? So getting back to culture I said, it needs to be number 1 on our agenda. And our internal meetings and our staff meetings If you don't have that intent there, it'll get lost. So every every week, we start our meetings with culture and philanthropic. Those are those 2 things.
We got a 1000 other things to go through to make sure that the company is in a performing company is still for profit business, all that kind of stuff. That's right. People all that's at the top of the list because I think if you start with that top of mind, top of the list, you will execute the cliche. You will Do the intent that you're trying to do and making sure that our people internally and our clients are serviced to to our ability the best of our ability and what we know how to do.
So it's it it is a lot of that of of to your point of process and just making sure that it is top of a list top of mind all the time. What are we doing? How are we doing it? Have we planned it? Do does our team know? Put it on everybody's calendar. Like, you gotta do all those execute all those steps to make sure it comes to fruition and happiness. Yeah. Execute the cliche. That's it. Using that, I mean, I love that, bro. I mean, obviously, that's gonna be a huge quote.
I mean, I'm, like, Here you go. Podcast producer just hit up a softball. Holy cow. Okay. So using this language, executing the cliche. Inside of culture, specifically. What I hear, and I want you to kind of expand on what I'm about to say. Want you to I want I'm I'm gonna take your your your cliche and execution, and I want you to tell me how to do it. But when I think of culture, yes, there's process. That's, like, one side of it.
You have to be intentional on process, but you also have to be intentional, the fact that we're humans, we're people. Right. And and I from our last conversation, I know that that's, like, deep in you. What we just got done talking about though was the process. So talk to me about what's the cliche or what are you executing on specifically when it's like, okay. Yes. My team is here. It's on the calendar. We're all communicated.
We're like, we wanna be here, but, like, underneath all of that, there's humans. Oh, yeah. Right? 100%. What's what's the intentionality there? How do you execute that? It's you know, what's really fun at Chaz is it it's weird for me for all the employees to look at me as the president of the company. It is it's I know that sounds weird, but it it is weird for me. Yeah. Because I remind them constantly. I was an employee for 20 years. Yeah. Right? I was you. I know what you think.
I know what you say. I know how you do it. I know don't always agree with the boss. I know all of that stuff that you think. And it's like, you have to remind them of that, which is kind of funny. Right? Because it's like, well, I can't get it. Right? I know what you want. So what do I do? I put myself in in work where I was and I put myself in their shoes constantly, which is how did I feel? What did I like? What did I want? What did I need?
What did I and and as you know, everybody's different, so I can't give it's not the same recipe for each individual. That's right. Learned those people. Right? We did we did something the last year where we did everybody's any grant and test. Yeah. And I really study that, and I still tell people I'd, well, I know that you're a 2, and that's a 2 thing. And, you know, but it it helps me get into it was, you know, okay, another an 8 or another 6.
And then and then, you know, some people, you know, I write it back and and good email. Great email. Like, so it's all I'll say to you. I'm just and and then I Chaz tell that that's uplifting for them. Yeah. Right? Some people just need time. They need that personal touch. And stuff like that. So, you know, the as president or company, you have to be nimble. You've gotta be flexible, and you also gotta put yourself in their shoes. Right? Yeah. And it it's a hard thing to do.
It is it's a very difficult thing to do because you can't give them everything. You can't Yeah. Or otherwise, you don't have a company. You don't have a balance. You don't have structure that you need. And that's that's the part I suffered with, really, was you gotta have that organization. You gotta have that structure that people still want need.
Yeah. Yeah. It's it's oftentimes, you know, for for the for the leader who's playing too much in what people want, that you you lacked the process because it's kinda a little bit too free flowing. They feel like people don't wanna be held down, and and people don't wanna be held down necessarily. They're not slaves. But structure is good for everybody. Like, I was just talking to a mentor of mine 3 or 4 weeks ago, and he's like, look, Chaz.
Every business owner that that you talk to that's not doing, call it, 5,000,000 or more is not organized. Like Yeah. Don't don't even tell me the rest of it. They don't care. They're not organized. And in order for them to get to that level or above, they need to be organized, period. And so we're talking about in process. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So you gotta build a team. You gotta have sales. Like, yes. But being organized or having process is important, but then Okay.
So once you put it into place, then what? Well, there's there's humans. You said the enneagram. I need the culture index. Like, I need to know who I'm talking talking to, how to deliver the information, what it is that they want, even though that maybe we've been employees and we know how an employee thinks, The way that we thought Chaz employees is probably different than how they're thinking, and so we still gotta know. We gotta have empathy.
Yes. Put ourselves in their shoes, but then we gotta actually, like, know them, like, individually, John, or Susie, or, you know otherwise, it's hard to know what they want. Yes. It it is an and you gotta be able to relate in some form or fashion, right, being being empathetic, being understanding, all that kind of stuff. I mean, getting back to that I mean, I've I have fought for since day 1 about an org chart. That's just one of those things that I'm like, I hate it org charts.
Like, we're a team. We're a team. A project or a Chaz. But now let's get to that point where it's just like, okay, everybody's kinda looking around. Does everybody report to Jason though? You know, they got what what Chaz. We put some things in place, but there I mean, if you, literally, we still don't really technically have a company order chart because it's one of those things. It's just like, Is is that good for the culture? Right?
It started with that top of mind, and and what does it look like? It has somebody feel and all that kind of stuff, but You you find more and more people Chaz you hire, more and more people are dying for structure and organization. They are they want it as much as you might fight it. A 100%. And I think as entrepreneurs, we we don't like people putting us in a box, right, or in a picture. We like doing our own thing, but the reality of it is is that they're not entrepreneurs or at least not yet.
Right? You were an employee for 20 years, you said, and then you became an entrepreneur. Fine. We'll set some point. You said, no to your structure, and I'm gonna go create my own path. Cool. But, like, the people who are following you probably and most likely need structure in order to be the best their best selves, which is what the company the whole point of the company is is, like you said, for profit, is to to deliver a great product or service.
And in order to do that, these people have to be the best of who they are. And in order to be the best of who they are, I have to not only coach and train and give them all the the the ingredients, but I also need to have measurements and hold them accountable and have process and meeting structure and agendas and, you know, just the stuff. It becomes the right stuff that we don't think. And it becomes a lot like parents. You and I are parents. Right? It is a lot like that.
Like, with my kids, I'm trying to be their friend, but at some times, you gotta step in and be their parent. And that is 2 different things. And and you have to draw a line with my, you know, my having nine year old son and a seven year old daughter. And sometimes you're you wanna play. We're doing all the play and then they kinda, you know, wander off and guess what they need structured. They need you to be a parent. They need you to pull it back in and and do what's best for them.
That's sure you're doing both personally and professionally. It's kinda weird how those worlds kinda mix together a little bit. Right? That's right. It's it's more true than people realize. You gave a really good, little, little description there that I think everybody listening will relate to. So think you did a good job there. One little one little tidbit for you. You might look at I I don't personally relate with these because it's it's tough.
I'm very very a linear or not even linear, but, like, structured thinker. And so the org org charts for me make perfect sense. Like, I love them. Right? It just everybody's clear. It's good communication. But for you, you might look they had these Circular org charts. We just created one. Wolfe, and so we did that. In Chaz, there's still, like, you know, this team is over here, and they report this. So there's there's clarity, but but it's like Yeah.
It makes it feel circular as opposed to per per per mute or whatever that word is. You know? So it's like, okay. If that makes you feel better, that if that's the culture cool sounds good, but, like, we still need to know, like, who do I go to? You know, that's really what we're trying to accomplish. Like, in the midst of clear communication and process and structure, who's my leader? Right? Cause Jason can't lead forty people. That's not possible. Right? Yeah. And it's efficiency. Right?
It's a funny story as I think. So I have 3 excellent women that's surround me on a day to day basis to really help me run the company, right, or I thought our VP of Finance or director of marketing and our office manager. And one day, I don't know if they created how it got created, but that circular org chart was slid in front of me. How about this? Mister anti org chart.
How about you know, and and now I think we've our relationship has evolved to where they and I and I and I love them in this regard. It's like, I tell them every day challenge me. Don't just just because it comes out of my mouth. I promise you I wanna be challenged. I need to be challenged. I need the structure. I need the organization, and that's why these three women have come together and really have helped me. It's really balanced. Right?
Because sometimes I'll get a little bit, not not Newsy Gucci because it's still at the core of me. I'm still a project manager, which is process. Which is Yeah. Organization, which is structure, which is proactive. It's all those things that still have that. But when it comes to their company, they do a better job of helping me really bring that and then saying, okay, Jason. Here's the org chart. What do you think about this? I'm trying to challenge when you get something out there.
That's right. It you know, the the people will you know, basically demand what they need. And and and it is funny just to hit this home for the listener, really, is Chaz, oftentimes, as entrepreneurs, we we have these, you know, rounded ways of doing things, not super direct, not super clear because, you know, we don't personally want to be in a box. For you Chaz an org chart. For me, it's titles. Like, I really could care less about titles. I'm just like, you know what?
Like, we're just a like you said, we're just a team. Like, I don't need some fancy title. I don't know why you need a fancy title. To me, it's just ego. Right. Okay. But underneath that, there is there's clarity. There's understanding what my job is. Like, how do I win? Like, all of those things get a little bit money if I don't know what is my job called? What Chaz is the job description? Who do I report to? What are the measurements?
Like, those things feel like I'm micromanaging, but it's like, no. Actually, actually, I'm setting them up for success. Right. And we oftentimes don't need that ourselves because we're just doers. It's like, well, I okay. No. I actually do need to slow down enough. To give them a title, to give them a job description, you know, to help them help, you know, create a scorecard. So that way they know how to win. What does winning look like? What is losing look like?
Because we don't want we don't wanna lose. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. 100%. It's and, again, that's that's a lot of going back to it. I had a title one day, and I wanted the next title and I wanted the next title. Right? And so you think about it because, you you know, you can't get lost a little, but sometimes in the I'm a president of a company, you kinda title. Right? And so, you know, when somebody is, like, director, they're like, hey. How do I get the senior director?
And you're like, really it, you know, is that is, you know, is it really the title, or is it is it is it the money, but what's the drive? Right? You're trying to unpacking a little bit to understand what it is. And so it is hard because I'm the same way. Like, the title thing, it's like, and go to a bank and you can have all the illustrious titles that you you ever wanted in your life. Right? You start day 1. You're vice president. I was president of the bank. Right?
That's you get the title right out of the gate. So they lure you in. That's right. That's right. I I think that for high achievers, right, because what you said, you know, 10 minutes ago was I have a players. I have an incredible team. And if we are recognizing who you already have, but then you know, for the listener, I wanna build a team of a players. Okay. Great. Well, guess what? A players operate in a certain way, and a players want to achieve the next thing.
And so if they don't know how to achieve the next thing or the next title or the next bonus or the whatever, why have an a player? Yeah. It's it is it's the hardest thing is to have all eight players. And I know that that sounds crazy because everybody I I do get a lot of compliments of, like, how do you find this talent? Where are you going? Well, how do you do this and all that kind of stuff? It's hard in a lot of ways. One is managing expectations.
Everybody wants to be the best, and you got 40 plus of people trying to wanna be the best. That's not a hard thing to do. And guess what also happens? They leave. They start their own companies. They've learned how to do this thing, and they go out and they start their own wins, and that's Right?
And it's it's it's, like, child of mighty, you know, you know, then you kinda get into this mindset of, like, in my in my teaching too much, right, am I giving out the secret sauce and the recipe because now they feel like they've got it and they go out and start the wrong ones. Look, You know, there's, you know, people talk about the, you know, the Nick Sabin Tree of Coaching or the Bill Parcels Tree of Coaching and all that kind of stuff. And you go, you know what? I can't stop what I do.
Right? Because it's still the right thing for the company is to still go all in, teach everybody. And if they decide to take that recipe and go start their own gig, and do it. God bless you. It's the best thing for them and their family, and I'll be their biggest fan because guess what? I'd be a hypocrite to say, no. Go. Don't go do that. I did it. Yeah. Right? And so That's right. It's a hard, hard balance to have that many a players, and and I think we are very blessed.
And I'm very fortunate when people look especially in the Atlanta market, but I, hopefully, it's grown to the southeast because we do have a Jacksonville office now where people go and look at our company and go, that's the best company. And that's the goal. Right? You know, culture, philanthropic, and to be the best. Right? And so people are starting to identify our company like that, which I'm very proud to say it. It's not because of Jason. I don't mean you to make it sound that way.
It's because of everybody in the organization, and it's because we have 8 players and getting back to it. It's hard. It's not easy to have all eight words. Right? Yeah. No. You're you're you're right. It's not. It's a different challenge. We could say it like that. It's a different game. I think that's everything that I want the listener just to, again, kinda going off of this, like, you know, execute the cliche. Hey, Chaz Wolf here.
As many of you know, I have been on absolute mission to help entrepreneurs from all across the country in many different industries, level up their game and grow their business, and intentionally connect with other entrepreneurs. We do Chaz, obviously, through the podcast, but we also have a peer to peer mastermind group specifically for 7 to 9 figure business owners.
We are bringing some of the best and most successful entrepreneurs and minds together in a regular and a super intentional way to not only grow our network but to be able to leverage. And at a certain point in business, success becomes about leverage, leveraging time, leveraging resources, leveraging key relationships, This is exactly what we're doing inside of the peer to peer mastermind group called Gathering the Kings specifically for 7 to 9 figure business owners.
So if that's you, if you're ready to level up your 7 to 9 figure business, even to the next level and get around other big hitters just like you, I want you to go to gathering the king's dot com, fill out a short application, and, it'll come to an application, call with me and I wanna chat with you to see if it might be a good fit. Talk soon. If if you just go back about 3 minutes and listen to everything Jason just said again, He really just gave you a a little bit of a blueprint.
I wanna I wanna dive more into this using my, like, good decision, bad decision. I I I can't remember exactly Chaz your answers were last time we recorded, but I wanna keep this this this lane culture people because in today's environment, it's a real thing. It's a real struggle, finding a players, developing b players into a players, c players into b I mean, All of this is a game that we play. Right?
And I don't mean to, like, put people in a category of a game, but, I mean, as a business, this is this is the game of business. This is the game of people in life. It's developing, and it's it's it's growing. It's leveling up, wanting to go to the next level. And so what would you say using this good decision kind of format what is a good decision that you've made in being able to have a players, or is it a a recruitment style?
Is it a something that you do in the team that draws people in, is it, like, what's been a good decision that you've made that's created this a player pool that you have. Yeah. So for what we do on a day to day basis, I I always wanna I have my interview skill set has definitely evolved, right, as what you look for with people and stuff like that. And, really, I I try and dig into the intangibles. Okay? Right.
You right out of the gate, I try my first questions are always telling me about yourself. And I try and leave it a little bit open ended in blank I wanna because I wanna hear the answer. Do they do they do they dive into personal? Do they design dive into professional? And I would say 4 out of 5 of them go right into the profession. That's right. I love the ones that start with a person.
Yeah. And and and if they go professional, usually my next question is Wolfe, tell me about yourself where you're from. Mhmm. You know, where did you grow out, draw back? Try and draw it back, Angel, because Yeah. I wanna know the person Right? That's right. I want to understand what what kind of person are they? Right?
And I will say, you know, a couple of people, I'll give credit to Richmond Kaye who's CEO, now the CEO of Atlanta Fakins, a of BCO, Arthur's businesses Chaz taught me a lot about that on how they draft players. Like, really diving in and, like, knowing their parents, like, really diving into that back. I said so get back to this is I I try and understand the person. Right? Because I feel like what we do on a day to day basis, I can teach them real estate.
I think we've we've got people in the organization that we're doing really to teach them construction, design, and real estate. Right? But what I can't teach them is the intangible things. Do they have passion? Do they have drive or are they proactive? You know, all those kind of things, like, The the the resume of the is great. It's on paper. It's great where they got their degrees all great. But usually in the first I'm sure you've done this.
In the first 5 minutes, you can kinda tell what individual you're talking to and meeting with in person and stuff like that. And I really try and dive into that 1st and foremost. Yeah. And then if it drags out to that hour, it's usually because you you've got something here. And and and I will say, it's it's I it people always ask me what's the ratio of people you interview to people your hire. It's 4 to 1, something like that.
I mean, it's it's a pretty high number, but because it's just you gotta find that person that you wanna be around that fits the company culture that's gonna fit with the team for the project, all all that kind of stuff. Yeah. You're you're beginning 5 minutes there. I wanna dive into that for for just a half second because there's so much value right there in that. And so you you mentioned enneagram earlier. I used the culture index.
And so without even them filling it out, I'm I'm a studied individual, right, I'm a studied leader. I'm a studied personality person. And so when I'm talking to this individual within the first few minutes, just like you, I know a lot. Yes. And I'm just like you, almost to the t. Tell me about yourself. And for the ones that go right into professional, I bring it right back. I go, okay. Great. Well, like, tell me about where you're from. Tell me about your family.
Tell, like, because those things are obviously important, but what I'm trying to actually do in that moment is I'm trying to let them know that it's important to us. Well, sir, you know, because a lot of times, the reason why they dive into the professionals is because they're trying to impress because I think that so that's what we want. Right? We want them to be all about the job and to be, like, work hard and and come early stay late. And all those things are important.
Sure. But who's the person? 100%. So you're actually creating an experience for them. 100%. That they probably have never been interviewed like this, ever? No. I I would want to know the individual. I wanna know the person. I wanna know what drives them. I wanna know I mean, it's probably the 3rd and 4th question is, what do you wanna do? You're you're talking to us since there's an interview, but what do you wanna do? What what drives you?
And then, you know, they're kind of breaking down a little bit of what market sectors? Right? The companies in 8, 10 market sectors of everywhere from health care to sports, just to entertainment, to to churches, to schools, what what if if you looked at our website and you started to switch. Another thing I always kinda hiccup on is people that say that have interviews is always a good check for me when they say, hey. I was looking at your website. Like, that is like, okay. They're proactive.
Like, they check the box that I'm looking for in that. And so I you kinda look for all those kind of queues now, and it's almost like the more you go through, the more checklist that you have to kinda go Yeah. This one's starting to fall in line to where I think we could have more of a conversation. Yeah. I think well, the point I wanna hit home for the listener that you made just so beautifully a few minutes ago was that I wanna know the person because I can teach them the skill set. Right?
You can teach them real estate. You can teach them construction. You can teach them all these, the the tactic the day to day. Yeah. That's not a big deal. But in today's environment, it's not really the technician that I'm looking for. I'm looking for the hungry, humble, and smart Chaz Patrick Lindsay. Calls it in in the ideal team player. I'm looking for the right person, and then I Chaz put them in the right seat based on either personality or skill set or whatever.
Chaz attitude or that individual, that person, you're not gonna find out who they really are unless you provide an environment inside the interview or even multiple or multiple interviews with multiple people in your company. Sometimes even dinner with the spouse, depending upon, you know, how much of a of a role that they're gonna have, like, I really need to know this individual as a person. I need to know how they are as a dad.
I need to know, you know, who they are, like, in all facets of life. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm sure we could we could probably take a lot of time with swapped stories on interviews of good ones and bad ones. Right? Quick bad one was, you know, one time I was talking to an individual, and he's like, hold up. Hold on a second. I'm just starting my run. That's how they started the interview. It was just kinda one of those moments.
Like, to to the first five minute Wolfe, you kinda knew where that was going. Is this not important enough that, you know, whatever. Right? We wanted we just hired and actually heard this week down here at Jackson Mellon. And, you know, why why are you talking to me? Why are you interested in the company? And his first answer was my family.
Yeah. And you wanna talk about, alright, I now am in my seat and I'm strapped in and I'm focused on this anymore because this guy's got some of the intangibles that you look for. I wanna move back. I wanna be home. I want my my sons, you know, thirteen years old. He wants me to coach his baseball team. I'm always on the road with this construction company. I could get and then you're just you're locked in and you're going okay. And this those are just two examples.
Again, just getting into I like to give examples to to a good interview and a bad interview. And those are 2 that just stick out my run right away. Yeah. I love the examples, and I also love the distinction of of probably the position that he was applying for because if he was applying for a traveling project manager. That was not a good interview. Exactly. That's exactly right.
I don't need a guy who's got a thirteen year old son who he wants to you know, coaches baseball team applying for a traveling position where he's gonna be going half the months. Right. However, your point was more that He's a wholesome individual that he has family, that he cares for his family. That's the type of individual that you're trying to build your team around inside the business. Okay. Fine. So let's let's find the role or the the commitment that's that's that fits his lifestyle.
That's right. But the individual is what we're what we're analyzing in the interview. That's right. That's right. No. It's it's always about that. It's always about them, and it and it and to your point, you made a great point earlier, which is sometimes you gotta pull it out of them. Right? You want them to fill in a couple of percent? Because, you know, again, getting back to, I interviewed for jobs. Right?
I think the people sometimes don't that you're interviewing forget that you did that at one point life. Right? So you're trying to say they're going, it's it's a little bit of a nervous situation, and that's why I try to go to the personal side of things because that should be any individual's comfort zone. Right.
Get them comfortable in the settings so that they get to a point where you want to get to as well as understand the individual, understand what they want, understand their passions, get them comfortable. And that's it's not an easy thing to do because interviews usually are stealthy and stuffy. It's not not not the most favorite thing in the world to do. Yeah. The it's so interesting that you use the word comfortable because I did a video.
I think we cut it up as a real just, I don't know, maybe a month or so ago, and I almost word for word with saying what you're saying, which is in an interview process, I'm trying to get them comfortable. Not only do I want them you know, like, I want them to know that I care, and I and I want them to know what we're like because I'm selling them as much as I think that they're selling me. Right? Oh, yeah.
But I can't get to know them if they're not in a comfortable place, which is everything that we just got done talking about. And so I got a little backlash on, like, you know, like, not being direct and being, like, you know, like, you know, wishy washy with people or, like, you know, being fluffy. I'm like, no. No. No. No. Woah. Woah. We're not talking about being fluffy. We're talking about being real. January.
Exactly. How am I supposed to actually know who this person is if I don't create an environment that's not stuffy? Like, Okay. Fine. You want me to go through the checklist of an interview? Okay. I got my checklist. I got my piece of paper. Where are you from? Check. What's your experience? Check. How many people have you managed before? Check. Like, why did you leave? Check. That doesn't tell me anything about whether this person's gonna be a good fit for me on this team or not.
Yeah. And and, no, and And if you don't know them because here's the other thing, you gotta pull out that personality because if you're hiring them to be a part of another team, it's not working with you on a day to day basis, you're hiring them to work on another part of the team, you've gotta understand that person, you know, if they fit that team. That's right. Wolfe another part of, I always use rib skew. For everything. Right?
That's Right. Part of the Rubik's cube is aligning those colors together on that right side is making sure. Good. I've already got 4 rock stars on this project. I need the 5th 1, and they don't fit with with the the 4, even though they might be a good individual. Yep. That's another part of that. Team that just might not align up that we gotta go, okay. Well, that, unfortunately, that's not good. So you have to get them comfortable. You have to know understand who they are as an individual.
Yeah. The the converse of what you just said for the listener is if you put somebody on that team who's not a good fit, then you potentially taken already greatly operating team and destroy it. Exactly. Right. Okay. So now we're going back to okay. So this seat or this hat as a CEO of culture builder. This is what we're talking about.
One of our one of our core values with with Gavin the Kings is that we're architects of culture And literally, we we we bring people into their best, but we also have to architect the whole entire situation, or we have to master, you know, puppet the whole thing because somebody has to be paying attention to what you just said. Okay. There's three people over here, and these are their personalities. These are the roles that they're playing.
And I know them, and I'm studied, and I know how they work together. And if I make one little move and put this guy over here, Chaz could destroy not only just the the synergy of that of that group, but then that now their confidence in me to be able to build the team. Right? Like, I need to put the right person in that mix so that that way, not only it works, then they look at me and go, like, dude, I don't know how you put this team together, but Thank you. That should be the response. A 100%.
And and we also have to recognize it's not a static thing. That's the evolution happens because, you know, again, we do real estate projects. Some most of the time, we're on a project for 3, 4, 5 years. Like, they have a lot of big projects. I take a lot of time due diligence to design and construct. Right? And so you can think that you set up a team the right way. Right? And you've got that that, but guess what happens? You know, evolution. They grow up. They might want this person's job.
They they're just, you know, so you can't take it for granted. It is a daily thing, and I forced myself. I shouldn't say forced, but I do forced myself to go check-in. Hey. Is everything alright on that project? It's been a while since I've really gone over there and spun that plate and make sure it's spinning in the right direction and and everybody's happy. And so I forced myself to go back and check-in and not take for granted that you just set up the right team. Right?
So that's another That's right. Another part of the equation, I think sometimes gets dropped a little bit. Oh, yeah. Not a little bit. I would say often I I didn't even think back to situations in myself where I had, you know, multiple locations in my franchise business. And, you know, you you put a you put a team in place. You put a leader in place. And, yeah, I'm, like, checking in, but, like, not not down in there. You know? Yeah. Right.
And it doesn't have to mean that I need into the business. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about just, like, a really healthy temperature check because it's easy not to. When when you put a team together and then you got other things going on, other projects, but I'm hearing you say that No. No. Make it a priority to stay in tune. Right?
Not not in the project, not in the business, but stay in tune with that leader, that team, because things change, things evolve, other pieces might be needed or need to be removed or replaced Mhmm. Fill in the blank. Right? Yeah. It's and it's a it's it's a time thing, which is always we're always trying to find margin. Right?
We're always trying to find how do I create more time to do those things that I want to do But I think that it's one of those things that that should rise to the top of a priority list is don't take it for granted because it was set up the right way out of the gate Check-in. And to your point, there's the right way to check-in. There's a level that you need to check-in. Don't question somebody or you're doing your job. It's not that kind of check-in. It's just like, You're alright.
Everything good. Everything good at home. Everything's, you know, good. You work with your peers. Good. And, you know, it's usually 2 or 3 questions, and you'll be shocked. At the answer that you get it. And you get You're being genuine, and you're asking real questions. Exactly. And you'll you'll be shocked at the answer you get, and you'll also go, okay. It is good. You know, I I'm I'm good.
Everything's good over it, or I hate to peel away at designing a little bit because something I feel something's in my gut that's not right here. And and that's that's part of being a president, right, at the end of the day is try and keep everything on the tracks and going in the right direction. And if you feel if your guts there Chaz it's going off the tracks, you got you gotta take the time to pause and and go investigate to try and get it in the right spot. Yeah. It's so good.
Okay. So I wanna take this culture at a super in-depth value that you and I have just spit for the last little bit here. How do you make decisions when it comes to culture? Like, I've I've I've blanketed this process for just all decisions on most of the shows, but I don't wanna keep it specific here at culture since we've just done such a great job with this with this topic.
When hiring, when, doing something fun with the team, when, firing when taking on a project and then whether it fits the team or not, like, when you're making decisions that impact culture, is there a filter, is there decision making process? Are there other people involved? Give us some give us some background there. Yes. Do a lot of that. Right?
I I'd try and always bounced it off of other peoples, and it I was actually having this conversation this morning because I have 4 mentors in my life, and I'm very blessed to have that many mentors. And I use them all for things. And I think it's very important for everybody to have a a mentor, whether it's 1, 2, 3, or 4, whatever that is. Right? Whatever the right number is.
And a lot of times, I I pick up the phone and call someone either outside the industry, a mentor outside the industry, or in the industry, and kinda go, you were here. You did this. It's just the right thing to do. So I have a I do 2 kind of checks. External is is that you feel like this is the right thing to do, or how did you do it? 1 or the other. Right? Yep. And then the internal check is, hey, guys. Thinking about doing this. What what do you guys think about this?
You know, I I I feel like this is something that the company would like podcast. Right? Internal podcasts. Right? And they they've talked about that before, which is now we have, I mean, we're 7, 8, 9 episodes in of these internal podcasts. It was kind of a idea that's friend from our first one, right, is like, what if we did a podcast? And, again, ours is internal for project related stuff and maybe one day it becomes external stuff, but you know, those are the kind of things you think about.
You still wanted to check outside and check-in. So I I definitely do, you know, a lot of checking to make sure that it it feels right And usually, just like an interview, you see the reaction of our team. Even if they come out of the receipts to say, oh, it's a great idea. Or if they go, Well, you got your answer in the first five seconds. Not the first five minutes. Right? It is a different kind of gauge, and I'm a big believer in reading people's body language.
That is a lot of my management skill, if you will, is just watching people react when they answer up there and they look in the eye Yeah. Their confidence and stuff like Chaz. But then the culture side of things, you know, it is it's definitely checks and balances And so it starts at that first little bit, and then let's go, how do we execute it? And, again, going back to execute the cache, culture, all that kind of stuff, How do we execute this podcast?
You know, who who's the right person to have to, you know, we have a co host. Kendall is a rock star. Great. So him and I do these podcasts together, and it's this natural flowing thing. And and and now I've I've got people going, hey. Listen to this podcast last night. It was awesome. Right? And so you're like, Okay. This is one of those things that I feel like has actually worked in in what what people want. Right? And so Yeah. Yeah. You you gay you answered my question. You answered it well.
I appreciate that. I I do wanna just give a little extra kudos here to your inter your internal podcast. So you you created a show inside of your business. That highlights different projects that you do. And so you and your co host interview the project manager or other people on the projects to talk about the project when it's done, What went good? What went bad? I'm sure all those things possibly.
But what you found, what you told me before we hit the record button was that other people in your your business, your team are listening, which that was the point so that they would listen. But a lot of the feedback that you've gotten is I got to know that person. Right. Yes. It was information about the project, and I and I was like, oh, that's cool. I got to hear what was happening over on that side of the business.
But what I heard you say was that they, the person listening, was like, I got to hear about that employee, that person. So you're building culture team camaraderie inside your team just by letting people get to know each other better in a super cool, unique way by having an internal podcast. Like, Listener, are you paying attention? It's amazing. I mean, we have a guy that works for us. Paul, I've known forever. He's our scheduling expert. Right?
He's been in the scheduling side of the business for 30 plus years. He is a unique individual. It all lasts next, right, and just an awesome individual. So we bring him in, Kenneth and I bring him in for an interview, and I knew going into it. I was like, this cat is gonna have some nuggets. I don't know where they're gonna come or how they're gonna come out, but it's just it's the same thing.
Let's get to know you and the individual before we talk about your experience And how do you how do you teach the the young project manager about how to set up a schedule the right way for success for the project. Right? And so we get into this podcast and right out of the gate, He talks about this and Chaz. And where are you from born in Chicago and stuff? And, you know, when I'm five years old, you know, my mom's in the back and she calls me and she says, hey.
Callnut call the doctor, call 911, blah blah blah. I'm having a baby. He burst his his brother. And five years old. And it's like, talking about Wolfe and people, everybody's going, hey, Paul. You know, something they would never have learned about him as an individual that they now can relate to him and go, I've gotta hear more about you bursting your brother. That's why 19 seventies. Right? You're bursting your brother. Yeah. It's insane. Right? I I love every part of Chaz.
And the facilitation of that, you I I know you didn't, like, start the podcast going, okay. We're gonna have Paul on, and he's gonna talk about this. And everybody's gonna, like, that's not, unfortunately, unfortunately, you didn't have that information. Like, you know, this is We get the credit sometimes as a leader of, like, wow. You set this whole thing up.
Yes. He had the idea to set it up and bring people together, but It's amazing what happens when you facilitate an environment that's genuine. Right? And that this is what culture is. I'm bringing the people together. And we're doing something. We're aligned. We're doing a project. We're doing a real estate. We're constructing something. We're running a mastermind group. What whatever the team is doing If we're gonna align with the work, that's cool.
But, like, inside of that, there's this group of humans, and what do like, what does that look like? Well, do they know each other? Do they wanna be with do I wanna be running next to this guy or gal? All of those things matter and the intentionality of how we do that or how we facilitate those moments is what's our responsibility, right, as the leader. And it doesn't always look like top golf and pizza. Right? Like, those things are cool. Exactly right.
Sometimes it's super creative ways like an internal podcast or, you know, creative huddles. You know, I remember as a sale, I'm just, like, drawn in my memory here. I used to I was the only sales manager of this huge company, and I would do my morning huddle, and we would walk around the building every Friday. And I didn't care how warm or how cold it was.
My team knew Friday mornings we were walking around the building because there's just something different, something unique, something fun, and they all they all knew. Like, the guys at smokes, like, they walked further back. And the guys that didn't smoke. We walked ahead because we didn't wanna smell it, but it's like, we all knew that we were gonna walk around the building. That's how we were gonna get our day started on Friday.
Fun stuff like Chaz. That doesn't really mean anything, but it means everything. Right? A 100%. All the little things, all those things, you wouldn't say matter. They matter. Right? It's just a little extra appreciation. It's something outside of the box. It's something again, it's I I feel like it always goes back to something that you wanted as an employee and you never got. Can you see it? You feel it. You think about Chaz, and you and it's just it's and for you and I, it's fun. Yeah. Right.
It is fun. It's it's fun to see people's reactions. It's just something that you you you thought about and then took it to that next step and actually executed on it. So it's rewarding as well. Right? That's right. That's right. Alright. Let's go through some speed round questions here. We have we have jam packed. This episode is so full. I hope the listener has been taking those I wanna know of a good book or a business resource that you'd recommend.
Ideally, on culture, if possible, since let's keep the lane here, but but whatever if you'd like to re recommend something else. So I I will say this. I'm a huge podcast person. Right? I I've meant what I said. I do listen to your podcast, and I feed off of others. Right? And that's and that is and you do a great job of facilitating that and bringing it out to other people. So I definitely listen to your podcast. They're sure not just a plug, but it's genuine. It's it's real. Right?
Ed Mylett is I don't I don't really miss an episode about my lot. I'm a big podcast person. That's where I get my information. He does a good job of mixing up things. I mean, this morning, I was listening to it. Right? It's just about self confidence. Right? So to me, that's that is my go to resource on on all things educational. Right. K. What do you do when it comes to obsessing over your family? I'm gonna take us on the left curve here a little bit.
I don't I don't don't need to turn a whole another podcast into this, although I think you and I could really wrap on this pretty pretty well, but I have this this statement, work life obsession because balance is erroneous. How are you, Jason Hughes, obsessing over your family at the same time as obsessing over your business? Or some of the things that you know you can practically teach us. It's one of those things that's intentional for me. Right? My kids are are my passion. They're my drive.
They I wanna do better for them. I wanna be better for them. And I think it's it's top of mind every single day. So making sure that my intention is is my kids and everything. Every decision I make during the day is about them and making sure I set up a better path. And I was provided for, which I was provided with a damn good one is is what I think about on a day to day basis. I wear them on my wrist about that two guy. Right?
So I just you know, if I got them right here, it is the intention that they're there, they're with me, even when I'm traveling for work and stuff like that. Yeah. It's good, man. Again, one of those execute on the cliche. Right? Execute it. Absolutely. Yeah. Because because otherwise, we it's just talk. It's empty talk. We say we're doing it, but we don't. Actually. We're just being busy. Exactly. Right. Yep. No doubt about it. One last question here for you, brother. Are you ready? Yeah, man.
I wanna know, Jason, if you had a chance to reach into the past and whisper into the younger Jason's ear, what would you say? It's a good one. That's a good one. You know, we usually I would say patience. It is is fast as life really actually goes you know, everybody said that another cliche thing. Right? But, you know, if you're patient and you're intentional and and I wish Jason a pass would have taught himself patience. It was always ready to get to the next thing.
So sometimes when you're not patient, you miss out on on life you miss out on where you are in life. You know, your kids are being born. You know, personally, professionally, you're inside of a project and you're ready to go on to the next project. But if you, you know, if you really are intentional about that project and doing well for that project, it's actually better for you in the long run.
And it's hard to It's hard to see in the now, and I wish the Jason of the past would have been more patient in in life in general, but I think hopefully, forty three year old Jason is listening to that and be patient with everything now and enjoy enjoy life's moments first and foremost. And then and then the work stuff, you know, saying the moment now. Yeah. That's right. Jason, you've been you've been incredible for a second time now.
I I you know, without the intention of of turning this episode into a a a culture flow, that's exactly what you did. And I think it's super timely. For just people building businesses, with people today. And so, I think you've you've given so much value. How can the listener find you? Whether they maybe they know someone that needs a a sports complex or a medical building built or a church built, or or maybe they just wanna reach out to you and connect as business owners. How can they find you?
Yep. So our our website is is pretty simple. It's impactdm.com. So all my contact information's out there for for a reason. Just accessible and reachable, you know, as as anybody is in the in the company. So we we're pretty active on LinkedIn. That's that's the most popular spot around there. I wish I was bigger and better on social media and Instagram and stuff like that. I know we have a page and stuff like that, but most of it's on LinkedIn and our website. K. Sounds good.
Well, we'll put all that in the show notes for you. It has been a pleasure on the second round, honestly. In the back of my mind, I'm kinda hoping that maybe we lose this one too, and we have to do it a third time so I can spend more time with you. I got I got a counter offer for you. I'm gonna bring you on our podcast. We'll make that call. Now we're talking. Right? Now we're talking. Interview you. Bring you in there for that. You know, it is different.
It is different to tell your story as opposed to facilitate someone else's story. So I would I would be honored to take that invitation, but seriously, my brother. It has been a pleasure. Thank you for being here. Blessings on your family and your team. All that you're putting your hand to in 2023 Thanks for being here for that. Same to you. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today.
I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself. What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple industries and now interviewing literally over 2 or 300.
Other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings literally exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities.
And here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you, and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com. Want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.