On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. I was able to think about stuff in a grand scale and Right. Actually look at the issues and solve it from a higher level. You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars. From business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be.
We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the real of the real on what it takes to build a successful business today. We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along the way that give a true and accurate picture of the journey of success and how you too can get there. Through this dialogue, you will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and keys like today's guest.
Grab your pen and notebook because We're about to dive in. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe gathering the kings. I've got Daniel Pappas here today on the king stage. What's up, dude? How you doing? Good. How about you? How's life? I'm well. First off, thank you for asking. And, we were just talking off offline here. This weekend was full of family for me. My my little daughter is three weeks old now, and we were doing a bunch of family stuff.
And so Believe it or not, I was a little bit tired from taking some time off for the family, but it's how it goes. So thanks for being here today, brother. What kind of what kind of business you got? Awesome. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I started a custom fence, a manufacturing installation company in the south side of Chicago. So basically residential customers come to us with fence designs that they're looking for, and we'll manufacture it in our shop and then install it at their homes.
I love it. I love what you said there, and I've got this just some some of the interactions that we had with you with my team before the show here, but that it's custom. It's you're not offense No. You are a custom company that happens to do fencing. Yeah. So our name's bespoke fence, and bespoke fence is a weird name, and people think it's my last name, but the word bespoke needs made for you or custom. So we try to individually tailor our fences for the customer's wants and needs.
So, yes, that, yeah, that's basically what we do. Very good, man. I love the perspective. I think we're gonna get into some really good meat and potatoes here, but before we go to your story, if you Wolfe, you're at a level in business. You're a pretty young guy, but you're at a level in business of success where we'd have you on the show seven figures and above. So why are you still pushing? What's ahead of you now? Like, why What's the juice?
I started the business and didn't know much about manufacturing and how to run a manufacturing shop. So Sure. We have a lot of goals. We're about to buy another facility and just ramped up perfection and, yeah, cleanup processes within Chaz. And we're never perfect, so there's always things to improve on and get better at. So Yeah. That's what keeps me going. Just getting into perfection. That's awesome, man.
And so is perfection something that you actually ever get to, or is it Is it the journey for you? Give me the next layer down on that. It's about it's, yeah, it's about the journey. As a business owner, you have to be critical of what you guys doing and and your processes. And it's every day showing up and figuring out what's going wrong and what's the better solution for it. So it's an ongoing journey. It'll never end, but it's constantly trying to improve and get better.
Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that does that come from somewhere? Like, did that come from being involved in sports, or that was the way you were raised, or you just have this competitiveness inside of you? What where does that come from? I think it it really does just come from listening to the person hearing them out. And if they have any critiques or format meeting deadlines, it's more just trying to look at look inside and figure out why, and there's an answer in within there.
So just looking within and hearing from the customers if they have, oh, this post needs to be swapped out. Why was that post even at their house? Or Wow. Some paint is a little messed up. So why is that? Yeah. Just figuring best processes for manufacturing and delivering an awesome product. Yeah. That's what I've taken.
Even if this is the first time I've analyzed somebody's why, if you will, but what I everything I just took from everything that's, like, beating inside of you is all customer experience. It's all Totally. Yeah. That's what's pushing you big time. Totally. Yeah. It's gotta be. That the customer is everything. At the end of the day, I think a lot of businesses get away from that and even with in fencing, I that's going into my story a little bit.
I was selling for another person, and it was just it was only about the next job, the next job, and it wasn't really about wholesome experience that how does this person look at your brand? How is this customer acting within your brand? And at the end of the day, are they happy or not? Yeah. It's all about the customer. Knowing that now we've got a little bit of a past experience that was different than what you're operating in now.
It was that part of the change up of, okay, you can do this better? Totally. And so, basically, how I stumbled upon the custom thing was I was selling for another company outside of Chicago, and I'd go on 6 sales calls a day, and, you know, we had maybe 5 fences that we could do. It was a, b, or, c, or, and that was it. So A lot of customers these days were coming with special requests or, hey. Could you do horizontal fences, or could you do steel posts?
And I kept heavy to say no. And I was sitting myself like, man, there's a lot of opportunity, and there's a lot of people want this. So if I started my own thing, I might be able to provide it for And Yeah. It's not the easiest thing to do, but then, like, doing custom designs and using harder materials to work with is definitely not the easiest thing to to to accomplish, it that's how we ended up on the bespoke Yeah. Bespoke brand. I love just the mindset is different.
It doesn't mean that the cookie cutter volume approach is bad. Just means that for you individually as the owner, which I just love how our DNA as an entrepreneur flows through what it is that we do. Whether it's our standard of process or the way that we think, or in this case, for you, it's like, man, I wanted to provide something Chaz wasn't being provided. If you wanted to solve a problem in the marketplace. And our customers come to us for that reason.
People show us pictures on Etsy or something they saw down the block and we'll take the request seriously and and try and make it for him to that spec, which is hard because you're everything's not the same cookie cutter, like you said, but That's why we're in business, and that's why our customers come to us. So we enjoy it.
Yeah. And I think that there's this is probably the takeaway for the listener is that whether you are cookie cutter and you've only got the 3 options and you're trying to do volume. Your numbers, your margin, you just need more sales, more deals. Fantastic. Figure out a marketing, the sales plan, and run as fast as you can, which is sounds like what that company was doing that you were working for before. On the custom side, it's definitely more of a, okay, it's more of a ship. It's okay.
We can definitely do this, but it's gonna be this cost. And so now you're dealing with a very specific type of client who can afford that type of customization. And so probably gonna do less projects, but they're bigger. They're more intricate. They're probably more fun. So any feedback there that you'd give to the listener who's maybe experiencing the same thing that you are? It was all just trying to be different.
And our designs that we make that we're custom at one point are pretty standard for us because we built up our installs and our manufacturing to fit that need. But it's just more looking at the customer as this person has a want or need. Like, how do we figure that out in the most efficient way possible? But within any business customers ask for stuff, and you might say no, but it's trying to take their inquiry and think creative and try and fill that need.
Yeah. Yeah. I think the most important thing there is that you can say yes. As long as the numbers make sense, then you're just you just have to understand the type of business that you're in, which I love. That's what you've given. I think the listener so far, the clearest depiction of maybe why you're different. It's just that you understand you're in the custom business. You're in the for you. Gonna take your ideas, and we're gonna, you know, make it happen. And that's great.
Do you fully have clarity on what type of business that you're in, which I think gives you the information to just really press hard into. Okay. We gotta get creative on these solutions over here. Right. Yeah. And it's building up your team and building up your systems to fit that need. People now know us the brand that will do cool stuff and also does really nice work.
So people that aren't even looking for the most custom thing will come to us and order a standard fence just because they know our brand and our reputation is we do nice work. Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff, man. Okay. So let's talk about before you were figures and above, I wanna know a couple of things that were happening in your brain, some decisions that you were making. Let's start with a good decision.
Something that you did as you were growing, that the listener can walk away with here today and maybe implement it in their own business. A good thing that I did was marketing. I study big companies that were infencing our other big home provider service companies and Yep. Looked at their websites, looked at their videos, looked at their Facebooks and Instagrams, and a set down with my marketing team and was we're gonna do this better than them. I was shooting videos right off the bat.
So it made me look like a way bigger company than I actually was. And it didn't take that much financial risk to get my marketing to that side, but our branding, our images, We are a huge company. We do really nice work. So, yeah, that's what I would say. The newer or smaller business owners is study your industry, study your, competitors and do that side of business better than that because it's it doesn't take that much financial risk and it's feasible. Yeah. A 100%.
And if I can if I could add things there of what you just said. You said you immediately went to a video, and I've got several mastermind clients that have done this exact same thing. Maybe it's because we're younger guys, but they went straight to some of the videos. And what you just said was it made you look bigger or maybe, more customization than you actually even had at the moment, but it gave this perception to the end user of, wow.
And then that turned into either likes and follows or actual business. And so I think that it can paint a picture of what it is that you're trying to portray. Yeah. We were giving information on the difference between cedar and treated lumber fences right off the bat, and people were coming to us. Okay. I saw your video Facebook. I saw your video on YouTube. Thank you for the ad information.
And we highlight products within our videos, but it's more just putting a face to the brand and communicating about the different things with inferencing. It was me with a couple guys and a couple pieces of wood, but to, online. It looked like we were a way bigger company than we were actually were. Yeah. No. I love it. I think that that it's marketing for the guy that's listening right now. Market one of the 44 basic pillars.
You gotta figure out marketing sales, customer delivering, and then financing. So you're right. A 100%. What inside of that? Okay. The decision for you was to figure out marketing. The decision for you was to study the other like, we went through all that. But how did you come to that conclusion? Like, how did you know to do Chaz, or what happened where you learned that? Sales drive everything. And sales drive growth and you need jobs.
And if you have more jobs and you have more if you have more crews, so the how are we gonna attract to our brand. We're brand new. This is a very established market within Chicago. How are we gonna separate ourselves? The only thing with marketing online and shooting videos and having a Facebook presence and having your website super professional is the only answer for that. How are people gonna find you? Yeah. So it was mostly sales driven. We need to get orders and we need them now.
Let's shoot videos and let's make our website look bigger. The guy that's listening right now Chaz like, yeah. Yeah. I know I need another job, but, just the time to take, you know, to set up the video and what am I to say, and he lets us maybe confusion, like, holding back from something so simple, but you're saying it's so important. How do you bridge the gap for Yeah. I would for what we shoot our videos off of, it's mostly what we talk about on a sales call.
And most of the questions that we hear from the customers, what is a customer asking about your business? When you're in face to face with them. Okay. Now let's put that online and let's show that to 300 people, 400 people, a 1000 people. It's more just you take internally, listen to your customers. What are they asking, or what are they confused about? And then, yeah, posting that online. Yeah. It's so practical and it seems so easy.
I'll add one more thing on here for the guys to take a note right now. What Daniel just said to you is basically take the questions and or even objections of what people are saying. And then you're answering those questions so that people can get to know you, your brand, obviously, the answers but you can also just tell the story. Just tell the story. What happened happened today inside the business? Today, we installed a cedar fence. What's the difference between cedar and treated lumber?
The content is already happening. It's just a matter of probably capturing it and putting some targeted bullet points to it. So it's a whole lot easier than you think. You just have to commit to it. Would you add anything else to the guy that's writing down a bunch of notes from you here on on content creation? And don't beat yourself off if it doesn't look like a totally professional, completely produced video upfront.
We've worked ourselves up to having more professional looking videos, but At the end of the day, the customer just wants the information, and they just wanna see a face to the brand, and they want constant posting within their Facebook. So just don't beat yourself up if it's not totally produced well, but just post it and you'll get positive response. Yeah. The authenticity is way more important than Way more. Quality for sure. Correct.
Okay. So let's flip the coin here and let's go to the bad decision. What'd you do that, crippled everything for a minute there to help us learn? I was way too involved in the sales process for the first 2 years of the company. So I was it's going I was running a company, but I was also going on 8 sales calls a day, which is pounding the road, maybe driving 200, 300 miles in a day. So I was only focusing on the customers I was dealing with.
Which is a full time job and missing a lot of the how do we manufacture this guy's mad about this? How are we gonna fix it, running the schedule? Just taking myself out of sales process helped so much just because it opened my eyes to bigger issues. I was able to think about stuff in a grand scale and actually look at the issues and solve it from a higher level. Yeah. Now you didn't remove yourself from the sales process because the sales process isn't important. But Right.
Rather put somebody else there who can dial in. Right. And build up your systems to provide that. When I was selling, we were all ability and algorithms so so it could spit out a good price and getting your CRM systems down and honing in. So you could hire someone, show them this is how we do it, and then they could take over.
But especially in construction, a lot of sales guys are only or a lot of owners are only worried about sales think they could get stuck in that rabbit hole where you have to solve for your pictures from a a manager brand scale. Yeah. I wanna ask you a couple things here because you're right. So you've said it a couple times.
Sales is the lifeblood that's if you don't have sales and you don't have a business, but Do you think that because you had sales experience and that you were probably pretty good at it, is that why you stayed in that seat too long? Totally. Yeah. When I stopped selling, I almost didn't know what to do for the 1st 3 3 weeks. I was like, I'm useless here. Gary wants me to go on an estimate. I almost ran to the estimate, but Yeah.
So it was very hard for me to get out of that salesman mode, but once I did, I was able to help the business a lot more Chaz, if I were to go on those sales calls. And so It was tough for me. 100% is tough. And so I wanna know 2 things here because you eventually got to things that grew the business. And so that's my initial. That's where I wanna get to. But let me forget, but why was it so hard? Like, what are you describing those moments? Because you're always worried about the next job.
And if I go on this call, I could sell this potentially closing 60%. And, yeah, so you're always worried about having that board full. So it was really hard to give up and let go of that and realize that other people could fill that role in. Yeah. So then when you filled it and, of course, there's probably some training and some processes, we'll skip over that a little bit. But what were the things that you were able to work on then?
You said you were able to help the business more once you figured out how, like, the next step for you. What was the next except for you. What were the things that you were working on at the after the sales piece? Man our manufacturing plant. So we have a ten thousand square foot facility. Southwest Chicago, and we're about to buy another 10 foot square feet down the road, but more just manufacturing is tough.
And there's a lot of steps and there's a lot of quality control issues, and there's a lot of wasting money on labor and defects So it was more just going internally and figuring out the best processes for how to have good orders going out on time. So it was mostly in the shop working with the guys figuring out the best processes for manufacturing. Which plays into your customer experience. Exactly.
Chaz, yeah, if you have a good fence on the truck and everything is correct, it's a percent a good order, then it saves a lot of headaches down the line. Yeah. Yeah. Which thing probably gets you another sales order? Yes. Lease referrals and then yeah. So we were I was neglecting that at first and it led to some bumps in the road, but once we focused on that, got better staff out there, it changed a lot of things up for I love it.
What discipline or process do you have around making decisions now that even the two examples that you gave to us were pretty typical as far as growth goes. But at this stage in the game, you got a lot going on. You're about to buy another building. What process are you taking decisions through now to try to make them good? What's better for the customer? And if Something's locking us up, and it's causing problems that the customer's seeing on the end result, we need to solve that problem.
We get our team together. We have 10 guys manufactured stuff all day in the shop, and they have a lot of ideas on, hey. We need to start powder coating. So now we have a powder coating oven. Set up, hey. We need to bend this deal. So now, yeah, just a lot like we have custom CNC machines. So just more like this will help may this will help this job go easier, and we need we will need this down the line.
So let's purchase the machine, build up to it it's tough at first to buying all Sheens, and you're definitely going into your pockets. But at the end game, it's does the customer need this, and will this help us be better in the future? Yes? Okay. Let's do it. Yeah. No. I love that. The the north star there for you, again, clearly customer experience, and does this put our brand in the light with the right customer, with the right customer experience is what I'm hearing you say. Totally.
Yes. For sure. Has that all through the years here? Has customer journey or customer experience always been the forefront, or was there, like, a situation you're like, it was maybe it was a bad decision. Maybe it was a good scenario that, like, led you to we have to dial this in. I'm a people pleaser. So I if people are not happy, I start freaking out and get nervous, especially with people that are giving me 1000 of dollars to do their friends.
Sure. If there's influx or there's any problems Chaz it's yeah. So that's what drove it. But, no, it was from the start. It was always about the customer and the good brands and within other industries and companies that I admire, they do focus in on the experiences. Yeah. I think that's super vulnerable, though, of you to share Chaz. Just it's almost like an anxiety that comes around.
Oh, if it's not perfect or if it's not right, which then has just pressed you into, we gotta create processes so that I could slip in Oh, god. Yeah. I didn't sleep the 1st 2 years. Just I'd wake up thinking about issues or certain jobs problems. But, yeah, and it Yeah. You have to your staff Chaz to think about that too. And and we had a defect on a job. Ricardo, who works in our steel production takes it personally. We all try and take it personally and know that especially in residential.
This is their people's homes, and this is what other investing within us. So they have to be happy at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's almost like a demand. Non negotiable. Nonnegotiable. Yep. Love that. Okay. Alright. I'm ready for speed round. My first question in the speed round for you, Dan, is if you could dwindle the entire business, your manufacturing, your install, the whole entire thing, all the way down. So one trackable metric What would it be?
Hey, Kings and Queens. Chaz Wolf. I wanna talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort. We, meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too. So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things.
On social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify. We would love to be able to get our content into more hands more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible. Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So Let's do this. Let's help each other. Let's help each other grow.
My guess is, but customer satisfaction and I was gonna say, how do you track it? Reviews? Yeah. Reviews. Once everything is done, we send a survey. Did you like it or not? And please rate us. That shows you everything, and that goes overall. They'll talk if there's any problems, they'll talk about maybe the admin was wrong, or maybe the billing process wasn't as smooth as they wanted it to, or maybe this crew, there was an issue with this crew.
Now we Chaz to look at this crew, but, yeah, just taking listening to them and taking in what they said. And if they have any critique, they're gonna show you the issues within your business. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. K. Next question is what book would you recommend that a 6 figure business owner read? 2 second lien by Paul Acres. So it's about, as a company, looking at your steps from today to day and trying to figure out a better way to do it constantly. So it's an ongoing process.
So say a customer calls the office, and it takes us 2 minutes to handle that call. What's a leaner way so it could take a minute and a half and that with the same results. Or, yeah, so it's just looking at everything you're doing for every task you're doing from day to day, and you have to get your whole company on board. Constantly try and improve. When you get satisfied and, you think everything is good, there's issues, and there's other things to improve on.
So you constantly have to be looking at your business and saying, how do I improve this? How do I improve this process? How do I improve this process? And that leads to less defects and better results. Yeah. Obviously, from a high level, like, ownership, you've grabbed a hold of this personally. But how have you, like, sent this down the chain? How do you put this into your team? How do you put this into the DNA and the culture of your team? Pass the book out. It's a shorter book.
They have English and Spanish versions, so I had them look at that. And also, just bringing in and talking about also, I'm giving a $5 incentive. So if you have an idea that will change your processes show it to me, we'll record it. That's how we do things now. Here's a $5 or $5 incentive. So it's just constantly trying to bring the culture in to improving things. Yeah. Yeah. So no idea is a dumb idea. No idea is a dumb idea.
Yeah. I guess the pendulum swinging too far that way of just constant ideas, constant change, nothing ever being the same. How do you fight away from the shiny object syndrome? Oh, I'm the worst at that. I've gotten in a lot of trouble by changing things overnight and everyone's saying, what the heck are you doing? But they we talk about it. We discuss them. We go over and hatch them out from it's a major change, but We have Alex who's making wood panels out back.
I don't know the fastest way to make wood panels, but he's doing it every day. If he finds a way to do a little improvement Chaz saves him 30 minutes on the day. We're gonna reward it for him. We wanna talk about it, and that's how we do things. Now. So, yeah, but, yeah, it's you gotta you can't go with the newest shiny object. You have to look at things, but we talk about as a team and go over it is a good idea and we wanna do it, then we write it down and go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
I think all entrepreneurs struggle with that a little bit. So you're not alone. Exactly. Yeah. Constantly chuking left and right. And and also trying to, like you said, fight the urge sometimes. Sometimes you just gotta stay in the one lane, but that's okay. We're all fighting it. Next question is, do you intentionally network or mastermind with other entrepreneurs? Totally. Yeah. There's a American Association. There's a Chicago chapter. I'm the board president.
So I meet with local guys, local fence companies within Chicago. We talk about stuff. Talk about issues we're having with supply chains. Also, BNI, which is a business group. I I just joined them, and they we pass on referrals within the Chicagoland area. Yeah. In helping talking to other business owners literally helps me so much just because if they have an issue, it's not specific to what I'm doing, but I Chaz relate to their issue.
And it helps me, yeah, it helps me talk things out and think about things differently. 100%. Yep. Love it. Okay. If you only had an hour again each week. 1 hour to work on the business. That's it. Like, the rest of the week, you were gone doing something else unavailable. You only had 1 hour each week. What would you do in that 1 hour to successfully run your business like you do now? I talked to my team, and I'd make sure they're on the same page.
I'd make sure they're happy and they're satisfied, and they have everything they need to work with. But if I were ever to in a position where I only had to work an hour, it's because people are really stepping really helping me. So, yeah, I talked to my team and to make sure they're everything they're satisfied. They have everything they need, and we're all good. That's awesome.
Okay. And then last question, if you lost it all, you know, more manufacturing plant, more sales guys, if you lost it all, what would you do? I like to travel. I was thinking about I'd probably move to another country for 5 years and bartender do something. And think about the next move when I moved back to Chicago, but I'd get away. Because I mean, something went wrong, and I'd have to I just wanna get out of Chicago and experience something there. Yeah. I love that. Where would you go?
Maybe Portugal. I think I was been. I I You've been thinking about that. Yeah. Oh, for sure. I was yeah. Yeah. It's not saying I'm gonna do it, but I'm joking. But, yeah, I it's just even I traveled during the winter, I come back with new experiences and new ideas that and I am thinking about the business the whole time. So I think that does help. It is interesting because what you just said was that you'd go because some maybe something had gone wrong.
But if like you said, if people are stepping up in your business and you only have to work an hour, then maybe Portugal is sooner in your future than you realize. And for the good reason, not because everything went the wrong way. My parents and girlfriend might have something to say about Chaz. But Hey, you know, we'll figure it out a lot of the way. Exactly. Yep. I I just so appreciate your energy and what you've been able to do in such a short time.
I wanna know first Chaz someone connect with you? Listener, they wanna reach out. Maybe they're in the Chicago Land area, or they just wanna find you. They wanna pick your brain. How can they connect? Dan at bespokefence.com. I I check emails daily. I'm very good at email. So just shoot me an email, and, yeah, I'd love to hear from you guys. That's awesome. And I'm gonna ask you a unique question because you mentioned this before we jumped on the around this show.
And you said you had listened to several others, and you've been tuning in since. I mean, you and I, you had engaged with my team. What why is someone listening today or you why are you continuing to press into listening to stories like this from you? Similar to the business groups I'm in, you're hearing from other entrepreneurs going through their struggles, their successes, and you pick up game when you listen to other people talk about it. And it's good. It's a two way street.
You can't think all your ideas are good ideas. You have to hear other people's ideas. Yeah. It's just good. It's almost another way to connect with business owners, which helps a lot. Yeah. 100%. Well, I appreciate that. You've been extremely valuable here today. Not only interested in the listener, but to me. So I personally thank you for that.
And for all that you've done in the customer experience place inside the fencing world, I'm sure your customers thankful that you're doing that, but just even as an example to the rest of us in business, putting the customer and the customer experience and obsessing over it if you wanna take it from a Bezos perspective obsessing over it. We thank you for that. Thank you for pressing in and doing all the things you've done. We wish you nothing but success. Appreciate you having me out.
Thank you, guys. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself. What I have realized not only in my own journey from multiple business and multiple different industries and now interviewing literally over 2 or 300.
Other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings literally exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you. And you know that you need people around you sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com.
I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.