On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. We went from a tiny little footprint to being distributed nationwide overnight. Showing up at gyms and yoga studios or whoever would let us sweat into place with a can with a cooler drinks and coupons and doing the most grassroots marketing try my product. This is where you could get it. Let me tell you about it. And that's how we did so much of just our early game plan. It was just meeting people. And I think go to the gym and give drinks.
Trying to keep simple things simple. So we did stuff like that. It was really successful. You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars from business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be. We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal successful business today.
We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along the way Chaz give a true and accurate picture of the journey of assess and how you too can get there. Through this dialogue, you will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and keys like today's guest. Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, gathering the key podcast. I've got Brandon Smith here on the King stage. My brother, Brandon.
How you doing? So, Chaz, nice. Happy to be here. You know, I'm happy that you're here. And, you know, through some conversation back and forth, you're Kansas City and kind of. Kind of. That's the Not anymore, but yeah. Yeah. Or origin of my company Chaz I was wrapping up some of my hockey playing days planned for the Mavericks. Yeah. I spent the better part of 2 years there. Absolutely loved it. And and that's where Newman was born. So I I have some roots there. Chaz yeah, man.
So excited to talk about your company. Obviously, it's some roots even in your own story of of athletics and just sports and that type of a field, but tell us what kind of company that you have, Brandon? So we make fitness products, and the the origin was just was it was it an old school sports drink. Currently, we have a 4th drink, an energy drink, and then a recovery wellness soda.
Started with my brother and I. We were college, minor pro hockey players, traveling traveling the Wolfe, doing it. Like, most, you know, I say most most teenage boys who who finally, like, made it got there, got free free sport strengths and whether you were a a Pepsi school or a co coal school. It was powered at a Gatorade. And it was it was very exciting because you could drag as much as you want. And you can watch, like, March was your whole life. This is this is it. That's right.
And at that time, I was really starting to, like, just understand sugar, sugar, my diet, something like that. We have nutritionist talking to us talking about how much added sugar you have. And for for those who actually wanna watch the video, here you'll probably see. Like, I'm already have some perspiration. I'm the I'm one of the sweatiest people you ever gonna meet, always cramping, dehydrated, like, all that kind of stuff. So I would drink, like, 5, 6 gatorades a day.
So 250 grams of added sugar just just to try and stay hydrated. And then my brother used to actually get acid reflux from Gatorade. Just from the ph of this of this 4th string. So our moment or or where we thought we were understanding this was my my sweat and Jared's acid reflux was like, can we make this healthy, low sugar, easy on your stomach, easy, like, and that was That was the the seed of the idea. Yeah. It's grown a lot since then in a million turns, but that's that's where it was.
And then the kind of the the founding story and the Kansas City roots were I think this is this is the the 12 13 hockey season was the last one that that I played in, but I'm in Kansas City playing playing for the Mavericks. My brother's actually in Anchorage, Alaska playing in, like, the same, like, kinda like minor league circuit. And our other, you know, founding partner more like a, I would say, like, advisor who was a help desk got going chairman of the board type.
He's in Southern California. So we're we're working in essentially, like, my first experience using, like, a Google drive and some copy paste. Like, we're, like, using the drive and doing stuff all over the place and Chaz the the minor league hockey schedule was practice at 11 and home by, like, 11:30, 11:30 noon. So there was there was time and, you know, a lot of guys played Xbox and some guys were like, I'm gonna do something else.
So, you know, in in the in the spare time, we were, like I said, kind of side pondering this about just, like, understanding some marketplace and idea where we wanted to take it we're just, you know, setting stuff back and forth between those 3 cities I was mentioning and and Chaz some time to kinda lay some of the groundwork before we took the plunge. That's awesome, man. I I love the the fact that you, you know, put a bunch of work in before you before you jumped.
It doesn't mean that you can't, you know, jump before doing work. It just means that You were taking advantage of the time. I love that part of the story. Okay. So you've got you've got this real need. It actually has always blown my mind. When you look at the gatorades and the power aids in the world. And you're like, wait a second. This this is not good for me at all, actually.
Yeah. Yeah. There's so many bad things about And so the same team that brought in probably the nutritionist to help you become a great athlete is the same team that brought in the the power and the gatorade. Neither here nor there I digress. Yeah. Oh, right. There's a there's a need for companies like yours. Let's just leave it like that. Totally. Okay. So you create this product. It's had a physical need for you, for your brother. It makes sense.
There's probably other people that are functioning like you and need this. Okay. Great. My question to you is, what's the deep burning desire of Brandon? Like, really, why are you doing this? I understand functionality why you did it, but So that's a really good question. And and part of that story was, I think the the the really short answer was it was accidental, and it was So at that time, I was, you know, 25, 26, went from playing college to playing minor pro hockey.
Hadn't had, like, a real job. And was getting to the point where I was like, you know, I I love this. I'm I'm probably not gonna make DNA gel in in terms of pro sports standards. I was, you know, 25 at the AA level. So I kinda was what I was. Like, I wasn't really gonna go up at that point. So I was Specifically, I was studying for the GMATs. And I was like, okay.
I think I may go back to school and maybe be like, they have, like, a lot of, like, grad assistant programs where made back a coach in hockey, take some classes and and and get an MBA or just I was just thinking about those things.
And My brother just was a 2nd semester senior and had just taken an entrepreneurship class and was just just just had this, like, you know, Chaz a class project doing something and and actually wasn't it wasn't specifically on this, but just had this, like, this kind of itch burning in him, and he had just done his, like, Wall Street banking internship, and he hated it. And we were both he was really in entrepreneurship, and I'm I'm basically looking there with all this time in my hands.
And I was studying for the GMATs and just I am not a standardized test person. Didn't like it at all. And he's like, hey. I think I'm gonna do this. It it didn't I would say that the the answer to your question, like, it was just motivating and addicting and exciting. It it's just what it was in the beginning, and that's how I got started on it. The story that I, like, I I I tell in those early days is we had a, you know, for minor league hockey AA level. But for me, a big deal.
We're like, in our game 7 of my finals of our playoffs. And I we just, in our minds, had some, like, deadline that we had to, like, finish this business plan. I I think it what had to do with some funding. So initial, like, getting us off the ground with our one partner. He's like, I need to see our business plan and what we're gonna do to take this thing live. And I had game 7 of our semifinals, and They'd up till 3 AM of, like, the biggest game of the year.
And for, I guess, now it feels like it's it's almost funny, like, this arbitrary deadline, but I was just I was just addicted to It was just so interesting and exciting, and I just wanted to just like it was it was intrinsically motivating exciting, and that's what got me out of bed doing it. And And then, you know, years later, I would say, like, I I I have, and and I know it's something you've talked about. In your pods and your videos are just like the the persistence.
And I think just kind of getting to in in business. And then I guess, like, coming out of this hockey career Wolfe for my whole life, I Chaz, you know, I started skating. I went to a church social when I was three and saw the guys out there thought the gear sweet. I know hockey no hockey in my family, but saw it played hockey from the time I was, like, 3 until I was in my mid twenties competitively and was like a was never, like, the most naturally skilled, but made it because I was a grinder.
I was willing to work my butt off. Like, that was kinda like how I carbed on a niche. My brother did the same thing. And as we have launched this business and been in this business, a lot of that same dislike deep down, competitive, like, I don't give a shit not giving up, like, how I operate in wiring as, you know, Like, there there are many days where it sucks and and that's that goes on a lot, but I I just have this, like, I'm not stopping.
I'm keeping I mean, like, that that now is a lot of, like, the driving on it too. I love I love how you gave the picture of early on and now and and as you said early on, that that that obsession Chaz, like, Chaz intrinsic, like, oh, I just wanna get after it and win. It keeps you up until 3 AM, and then you were up at 6 for practice ready to roll. Yeah. The freshest you've ever been only on 3 hours of sleep.
We all know what those nights feel like, and we also know the nights that were just, like, I can barely pee on myself from the pillow, you know. Mhmm. And so I I think having both of those along the way provides us the, you know, the mindset of or or at least the gratitude perspective. Right? Yes. And, you know, and that's like, now I'm I'm in a it's such a different phase. Like, so 10 years later, married, have a toddler, and my wife is a resident at the Cleveland Clinic. We're finishing that.
So her schedule sucks just as much as mine. We're raising a kid. You know? It's a totally different tough. Different tough. Baby gets COVID, but we both got you to do in the morning. You know what I mean? There's all these, like, all these different types of distraction and training. I think you've kinda mentioned that that gratitude that I I didn't, like, I I get to work on this.
And it's, like, I I still feel incredibly privileged Chaz I still get to carve out my own life that I wanna live and the business that I wanna work on. I'm so to do. And there's, you know, plenty of other distractions and stuff that'll just make you wanna stay in bed. Like, no, baby was up from 2 to 4 last night crying. It's just like, I I have, like, but I skipped the opportunity to work on this. And it's a totally different perspective.
And, yeah, I'm I'm still grateful for the opportunity that I have. The the gratefulness and and the obsession, really, it's like a it's a burning, like, I need to win. And for you, Numa is the outlet of that. And for us listening to your story here today, our outlet is, you know, our business or our family, just like yours, But I think it's the realization of, like, man, I get to do this. Like, you just said it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have to do this. I get to do this.
Wow. Yeah. And messed up will wake you up before the alarm clock, even on the days where baby was was Yeah. And and I I think I feel like like most businesses, we've had our our fair share of near death experiences. You know? We're Interesting way to put it, but yes. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I, and I'll I'll, you know, I'll show some of the stories.
Like, we we were in the ear I keep saying early days, but I'll I'll probably say, you know, as we launched our product, you know, put yourself back in 13, 14 shoes. And at the time, a lot of the the advice of the smart people in the room and you know, I kind of preface that, like, I was as raw and as new to this as you could. So I was trying to talk to smart people and just hey. How how can we start doing what you think is smartest?
And there the direction was you need to be doing this in a, like, retail is where you're gonna live. And if you're And at that time, it was almost like people were laughing at people who wanted to sell drinks online. And I'm sure you can tell them setting this up, like, we're we're an e company's now. But so we spent so much of our time and our hustle trying to just just bang our head down that path, like, super, super, super hard Yeah.
And we, again, like, one of the things you had you had kinda lied with was like, hey. There's there was a need for this. And we understood and learned how to tell this story, yep, creating, you know, what the need was to all of these grocery buyers, and we the way we found it out about how we're gonna do this.
I think But the one thing we knew about our product, the consumer always gonna live, is that we were from day one thinking we were gonna be positioning this as a Chaz an elevated better for you compared to the Gatorade power instead. So instead of the that target being, like, for fifteen to twenty two year old generally male, but, you know, they've they've actually doing a better job being more inclusive male, female, but sports. Well, this was one of the top.
Like, you know, Yeah. Basketball, sticks, championships, whatever. Like, that's what they're about. It's like, we're gonna be a little more adult, a little more fitness, a little more you know, boot camps running crossfit yoga, someone who no longer cares if, you know, athlete Dejour holds it up. Someone who's just like, I'm an adult. I I wanna put less crap in my body. I wanna so, like, that's what we thought. That's what we think we're gonna position ourselves. So Yeah. It's good.
We were able to, like, we were able to go and tell that story well to our grocery buyers. And and and we're actually getting, like, too much traction and too much acceptance from those buyers. And our our distribution grew from outside of just the Midwest, you know, Cleveland to nationwide super quick and us not really know what we're doing and all that stuff and tell our best guys, we got a nationwide visit. You wanna do this? Everyone's like, hell, yeah. Let's do it.
We went from a tiny little footprint to being distributed nationwide overnight. And we got to this place where a lot of the things that made us successful in the early days in terms of product market fit and brand awareness were really based on the we call it the Neumaborough hustle. It's me and my brother.
We're we're showing up at gyms and yoga studios or whoever would let us sweat in their place with a can with a cooler drinks and coupons and doing the most, like, right, like, you know, hand on hand, grassroots marketing, try my product. This is where you can get it. Let me tell you about it, and I would always you know, you could tell I've I love talking to people and get all excited about our story, and that's how we did so much of our just our our early game plan was just meeting people.
And I think Yep. One of the one of the things that we always talk about is, like, you know, if I was gonna if we were a tea company or, someone was like, where would I go meet people who love tea? I don't know, but I know people who need sports drinks there at the gym. So go to the gym and give drinks. Trying to keep simple simple things simple. So we did stuff like that. It was really successful. And then all of a sudden, back to the point where We said, hey. We can go everywhere.
I said, hell yeah. Let's do it. So we put drinks everywhere, and we no longer had this strategy, the mechanism that created awareness, right, and we tried to chase our tail with different ways of how we're gonna create that awareness. And we were doing we were replicating things that we had it done and making just crappy assumptions. Interesting. Yeah. And and then not long way of landing.
It's, like, through those new experiences, we had to be like, guys, we're we're gonna be we're gonna round money and our investors and all the things that we're trying to do, this path is not working and how to really, like, swallow our pride hard about. It was always fun to just K. We're in all the Wolfe foods, and we're in all these woolmarts. And we could list all these things and it felt awesome to tell people that's right.
Trade show, we have all this distribution and made you feel important, but It was really bad business, and it really wasn't good for us to be able to keep this thing around. And then really Chaz that understation understanding and realization that if if we want to, you know, if if we wanna keep doing this and have the opportunity to do this, like, we need to be humble. We need to take we need to take our medicine. We need to for our business.
We need to do all these things necessary to keep this going and, you know, back to way back to where it's it's like, I'm I'm grateful that, like, we made we did those things, and I'm still here. I'm still doing ground on this business and Chaz had, you know, that's one of our new debts. It was like, I've had these, like, personal businesses that we've just never knew it had to make these these tough choices, but we're we're still here. We're still growing.
We're still fighting, and it's it's Yeah. It's been a journey. Yeah. Well, let's get let you just gave us all kinds of good stuff. So let's get let's get to work. Inside of what you just talked about, someone might be thinking, Wolfe, if you were in all these stores and and, you know, shipping nationwide, like, that sounds like a huge success. Why did you have to change. So give us the detail there.
And then following that, I'll, I wanna know a little bit about how you made the change, but why first? So why? So It was really, at the end of the day, it was understanding unit economics, profit margins, channel profitability, and all and all just, like, Again, one of the things you talk about a lot just like core fundamentals of business and understanding. I make a I make a drink and sell it to the grocery store. Who needs touch it along the way?
How much does it cost me to make it and get it there? How much do I make? And then some of the things that that were our big misses were the cost to support it and then create that demand in those markets. Right. So just just because so just to clarify for the listeners, just because it was in a shop. In California. Doesn't mean that there was interest from somebody walking into that store to buy it. Exactly. And and most grocery stores have between 40,050,000 items. Okay. So Right.
To, you know, and and landing the shelf is only step 1. Oh, that's the you've I've only sold one person. That's the grocery buyer who decides they wanna bring it I need people in the store that actually know something about this that that wanna buy it. And and Yeah. Yeah. And I had no awareness and, you know, and my brother loves just saying. It's like, you're always the hero in your own story. And I make this sports drink that's better for you.
It's like, everyone's gonna be so excited about this, but just the idea that, like, there's 50,000 products in this store that people are still locked up without the Let's be honest. Yeah. And randomly just find mine because it was just the exact thing at the right time. And even if you're in the market, most people, like, have just their blinders on, walk up and grab the same couple things and head out. And they're not in this you know, exploratory mode.
Exploratory mode to just discover something. And That's right. That's right. All of that hard work and assumption that we talked about, the Neema Bros showed up with coupons and coolers, telling people about our product and why it was different, what, like, that was that was where we were finding the right consumers.
And at that time, whether or not he wanted to go buy it, you know, at that gym we were meeting at, but we always gave you a coupon to our local grocery chains and stuff like that here, and that's what actually made those numbers in those early days. Looks so appealing to those buyers who were like, wow. I can't extrapolate this everywhere. Exactly. So we we had this we had the demand piece solved, and we almost We didn't really internalize why why we had these results here and not over there.
Yeah. So we started doing all these other things. Like, why why those unit economics didn't work elsewhere was we were doing all sorts of things, like, for us, like, paying for paying for in store demos. Like, we we thought that was gonna be a good thing, but for us selling a selling a healthy sports drink unless you were unless you were coming from the gym and actively sweating, you're probably really hungover. It wasn't a good time.
It wasn't the right occasion for use where if I if I went to this gym class with you and you're all sweaty and you finished, like, here's a sports trip. You're ready? That's the exact right time. That's fine. So we So good. Doing all these things that were we thought in a vacuum made sense for demand about how we're gonna go and create it. They didn't.
And there was a lot of these just for us understanding the, you know, the rules of the game of how they were played on our regional versus national level. And Right. You know, and some of these retailers just to just to, you know, if you wanted to run a promo and you're in, like, one little region, cool. There's no admin fees, but now all of a sudden, you're nationwide. You wanna run a promo. Just the admin fees to change the tags and the stores across the country are $12.
And you have even even started funding the promo. And now You don't even know if the promo's gonna work? Yeah. You don't know if the promo's gonna work. So all of a sudden, we're before we start before we even start, we're in the whole running, like, 6 promo a year. So now we're in the whole 70 k on, yeah, 70, 60 k on that 70 k something like that. And then you're funding the promo. You're in in the early days, we're saying like, hey.
We wanna run and then I don't know if it was self serving, but I think they're stranded behind it. Hey. The buyer goes, you should run shallow more often promos. So we're running these these promos and when one ends, one starts in another 6 weeks. So all of a sudden our buyer start getting trained and only buy it on deal. And all of these these the Terrible. Terrible, my yeah. And all of a sudden, we're just we're chasing our tail, trying to create demand.
We've chained our buyers to not to Chaz to devalue the product, and we're doing all of these things that are just just not the right core fundamentals of how to run a successful business. Yeah. And, you know, I I understand how we got there.
But in terms of as we started seeing it play out and needed to make that, you know, I I keep using this kind of idea, but this it was it was a very just, like, it was very humbling to just say and realize, like, gotta do a different we gotta do a different, and and it was some of, like, yeah, I remember just giving presentations to a couple investors Chaz, like, we're gonna judge our success of this company about how well we do in these couple key retailers, and and we just Wolfe failed at it.
And we, you know, we were seeing and we were understanding why we failed, but we were also seeing we Chaz was that was a really bad KPI and a bad thing to go tell them. Because when you're saying, like, we have all these other things that are that are an incredible an incredibly viable path forward. And for us, it was ecom. And and it kinda lined up with, you know, the it was already happening, and we were going there before the pandemic.
And for us, Chaz the pandemic happened, people were becoming a lot more willing, especially with grocery was a was a category that changed late Chaz people just always kinda told themselves I like to see and touch and feel my groceries, but especially for stuff like us that shelf stable, the people became a lot more comfortable buying those things online. Yep. And we're we're going that direction.
It's becoming viable, and we we put all of this effort and focus into this one one direction that wasn't working. And found another pivoted Chaz as we because I kind of hinted a little about just understanding just different channel profit margins and stuff like Chaz. We were making, like, you know, maybe a buck a buck and a half a case selling to the grocery store, and we're making 8, 9 bucks on our website. She's like, well, yeah. Seems like it's still a lot.
We we could Then we acquire customers better online, and we were trying to, like, you know, run ads just like, hey. So and so in Phoenix, go buy it at the grocery store. And we need you to shop at that warranty grocery store. It's like, oh, we Chaz just tell you to buy it here. Or you just take it right here?
Yeah. There's there's a couple of things that you've just that you've said here in the story that I wanna make sure that the listeners follow along because you're given really, really good business stuff. And so number 1, the ability for you to marginalize or or understand your margins in a way to where you could actually say, you know what? This sucks. Yeah. Because the vanity you mentioned it. The vanity numbers get us all.
Whether that's revenue, whether that's cases sold, whether the fact that I'm in all the Wolfe Foods, like you said, like, whatever that vanity metric is, we all like it because it feels good, like you said. Mhmm. But if there's no money being made, that's, like, the real, like, looking in the mirror going, is it doing what we said it was gonna do even though I'm in all the places? Or whatever the the vanity metric is.
So that's number 1. Number 2 is the reason why it worked for you in the gym, you said all this. I'm just kinda repeating it, but I wanna make sure it's hit home for the for listener. You were there, telling the story, giving the sample, being able to help them understand the difference, like, all of those very, very, like, precise things to the exact right person.
You probably weren't talking to the eighteen year old who really didn't care about the next level of fitness You were talking to the 25, the 35, the 45. Yeah. Who cared and probably had the money to care about the next level finish? Okay. Fine. Well, how does that translate into your your 2 models here? Well, when it's direct to consumer or when it's ecommerce, you can tell the story. I love what you said right below that too, is that it's all about the right timing.
And so, again, with ecommerce, you can be really, really precise on location and timing, and there's a bunch of getting efforts that you guys have done that I'm sure you just dialed this in. But for the listener, I want you to walk away with here is, like, you can't you know, he wasn't just selling sports He realized he was selling a, next level fitness opportunity. Organic, no added sugar, every blah blah blah. So the person who cares about Chaz?
Yes. And that person understood his story, and they could read it online. They were sophisticated enough to point click ship. In fact, Chaz person, so probably someone like us, doesn't really wanna go to the store? Has yes. The the the buying patterns Chaz, Yeah. I don't wanna go to the store. Even before the pandemic, I ain't got a time to go to the store. I care about fitness, but I'm busy. I need your drink to help me. Right? Yep. Absolutely. Play roles. Dude, so good.
You gave us both the good and the bad decision all kinda wrapped up into one in there. What what I want coming out of that, what I really wanna know is how do you make decisions today? You we've talked a lot about the early days. What about today? You're running a successful business. I know you don't make everything perfect as far as good decisions, but No. What's the formula for you now? Said, I mean, It's a fantastic question. So we we use do the best we can.
We use our own version of EOS on front operating system, and we're doing, you know, sitting down, setting your long your long goals and quarterly metrics and check ins of how we're trying to do Chaz. Setting setting good yearly goals and quarterly goals and checkpoints is very difficult, but we're doing Chaz doing everything we can to make sure that they're as actionable and as yes, no. Here's a number. We and and and then trying to evaluate ourselves against it.
So that's that's a big part of what we do. And I would say we've been doing that for the better part of 3, 4 years. And and we we we have kind of a local a local group of business owners, most guys, and plus or minus our age, you know, mid thirties that that are kinda same revenue rate ish, you know, ballpark enough that doing with the same kind of problems. So that's been, you know, and and we all kind of collectively did it together and had some accountability together and helped do that.
So Awesome. So that that's one big part of, like, okay. How are we just strategically thinking about some of the things? And I think the, you know, some of the things that we have really embraced embrace recently from a just understanding about where we're going is is we we are further, further understanding and just the concept of just, like, what expenses really mean and what we're investing in to grow.
And I have one of these guys just tell me this quote, and I didn't believe it till way too late, but it still helps. It's just, like, keep your business simple, kid. And and the more that we were trying to invest and chase things that didn't help us grow. And, you know, if if we're making, you know, just just big round numbers, if, like, you know, in a channel after all this stuff to deliver it. If we're only making 20% pro then I need to spend $1 and make 5 Right. To to return it.
And We just really weren't I didn't deep, deep down understand that. Like, I I knew it conceptually, but I didn't deep down. I don't understand it on how we're spending. So I think the the the real core of it is that my my brother and I, I live more on the finance side.
He lives more on the marketing side, but as we come together and just review what we're at in our business, and we just carve out time on our calendars to just get together and talk about just what's, you know, high high level going on. It's it's being very detailed on our P and L about just, like, it's line item. My line item is just, like, I'm sure that this still needs to be in here and and just being meticulous with that.
And, you know, we don't it's not like we kill everything immediately, but we highlight things pretty quickly and say, like, we need to keep an eye on this and that needs to be needs to be as part of our, like, our rocks in the next 90 days, or it needs to have some sort of reason to fix this, or it's not gonna stay. Or yeah. So you just you just dropped up some some super easy, but complicated math on us. I wanna go I wanna go back to that.
I can just through our conversation, I can tell that you're a meticulous individual, even just the way that you speak, you're very thorough. And so the listener may not be. And so I just I just wanna point this out because, in order so on that 28% example, make $5, what that means is that of the 5 I I profited 1. Yes. Then I then I'm gonna I'm gonna invest a dollar, but that it has it has to return 5 to even just be a 1 to 1 Wash. Return on investment. Yes. A wash.
Yes. And then for me, like, then my my cost of goods and, like, I for us, we ship we ship heavy. We we ship water. You know what I mean? Water and flavoring, but, like, we're shipping boxes of water at the end of the day. They're heavy and it's not like we're selling iPhones where the it's a $600 ring. We're selling a $30 case of drinks, and, yes, that's expensive for but it's not 600, and it costs you know, fifteen bucks to ship.
So if you start dialing back, like, all these numbers about, like, what I'm actually keeping in my pocket at the end of the day, once this is delivered to my customer. And then if I'm if my cost of acquisition to Facebook, you know, or wherever I'm whatever source I'm using, if it's an influencer or just standard ads, all that kind of stuff, and you start backing out the dollars I put in.
And and we know we're not we're not always gonna be breaking even on the first customer, but just also understanding the quality of the customers and the re their likelihood to repeat. We're we're definitely a repeat repeat purchase business where we're not gonna be as profitable, but we would be doing really need to know about, like, are we and then if we're gonna go in the Wolfe on customers, like, how far in the hole and how much and the the quality of customer to Right.
Keep their coming back. So I I know that took you off a little bit. I'm just, like, a math on that, but just, you know, Chaz there is that other portion about knowing, okay, the things that, you know, Chaz we highlight, like, okay, we want to invest in this and we know that, hey. We're not gonna make up with the first wave of them. You know, if we get customers from this kind of traffic source Chaz they're good for $300 of of purchases a year.
So we're gonna be out on average across that whole cohort because they came from a real, you know, a traffic source that we have enough data on that we know what they act like. Okay. Cool. So we know we can go in a little bit because, you know, we we're we're in the whole 4 months, but over the course, you know, 4 months to breakeven. And, of course, the year, we're awful this much. Okay. Cool. That works.
But it's just really, really knowing, like, those numbers so well that has been the core of all of, like, just why we've been able to survive and the changes we've made and just being so dialed into that is problem. You can run a business. Yeah. Especially in a super competitive lower margin space where you're not not selling 600 or 6000 or $60,000 item. Yep. Those things matter.
And so you service about tens of thousands of clients where someone's selling $1000 or something is gonna sell only maybe a couple 100. And so even just even that, like, it's it's a little different, like, a lot of less opportunity, but but more margin each time. So you gotta take advantage of the margin when you do it because, you know, you're gonna have 60,000 options. I I wish. Yeah. Exactly. So it's just a completely different business.
I I think the math there, I used to tell this to salespeople all the time, you know, like, okay. So if you had you know, a 10% closing ratio, and you had 30 prospects in your in your pipeline. Okay. So that would mean that there should be 3 deals in there. And so I always give the example if you make one phone call and you close the deal. So you got 29 prospects left. Right? And they all shake their head. Yep. And no. I already told you you have a closing ratio of 10%.
And so even though you still have 29 prospects in there, we we have to get rid of 10 of them. So you actually only have 20. And so that this is where people get caught, whether it's in sales or in business. Yeah. Is that I think I'm getting $5 But that $5 up, it only really actually means one to me. And if I if I get underneath that for too long, that you just, all of a sudden, you're gone, and you didn't even know why. Totally.
And, like, that was that was a lot of the, you know, the first near death was a lot of that. It was just like we're wow. We look at all these numbers, all these stores, all these sales, and and Are we not surviving? Are we not surviving? And in how we're not surviving, how's it how's it getting worse month over month? Right. It was wasn't understanding those really just key fundamentals. Yeah. Okay. So I'm gonna go over to my KPI question.
You mentioned earlier that you had a couple of maybe bad KPIs in that story that you were telling. What is the one API that you would track forever and ever if you could only pick 1? So I asked the data guy to to move it to 1. I know. I I know. I know. I think I would be tracking at this point. I'm looking at a ratio, just a just a profitability ratio off of our website, which is just our key. This is the blocking and tackling of where we wanna be driving the majority of our traffic.
So are my fully, yeah, my fully, fully landed cost of what it, you know, between whether cost to deliver the package, cost of goods sold, taking into account some things, like, on average hump, what's our, like, average ticket How much how much are we, like, to, like, serve an average order? Like, what percent of our orders are actually going to generate a ticket needs sort of response? How many like, all but you got, like, every every every cost that I could put in.
My cost on my boxes, do I need to be getting a better box or a worse box? For us, selling expensive sports drinks, people people get really pissed if their $35 box of sports drinks comes damage and leaky. So, okay, do we need a box that costs a quarter more, 50¢ more, like, putting and knowing all of those types of things into that number to know exactly off of my website. What percent of sale Chaz I just can always keep having this rough number, okay, when I check my Shopify every day.
Here's here's the number. What percent of Chaz is actually in my pocket? Like, what kind of account on that? And that's that's the that's Chaz that ratio that I would be looking to just No. And, like, if if I had one thing that just could tell him all the time, what's going on, that's the problem. Well, you did a great job of actually explaining the reason even why I asked the question. It's not like we only get to pick 1.
Obviously, there's many that we track, but you did the math for us, or you did the you did the the ladder. Like, If you know this one, then what it tells you is a synopsis of all these others. And and it's not that you need to do that in a business, but what I have found, what's super helpful, if I can quickly look at one singular number, I know, like, I'm heading in the right direction or I'm heading in the wrong direction. Now, of course, I need to dig in from there.
Yep. But I can't I can't work on the business if I don't have a singular 1 or 2 or 3 high level things where I can, like, be watching all the time And then as soon as it's off, then I'm in. I don't have to be in unless, you know, otherwise indicated.
And and we and we try and we have a scorecard that we use and try and update it on a, you know, on on a quarterly basis, and there are some drill downs for each department, but the the purpose is exactly what you said, is that you know, we we they're on and on that scorecard. I think there's 7 there's 7 numbers. And the idea is you look at the scorecard, you know, nothing else of what happened in the last month. I know exactly what happened in this business, and that's the that's the idea.
So I, you know, getting down from 7 to 1 was hard, but that's how we try and think about it. And that's that's the one as me as the finance guy. Who is as I'm trying to roll it up. And, you know, I was like, oh, is it the acquisition? So I was like, no. I need to know this one. That that's that's the one at the end of the day. No. It's all good. I would take with me. Brandon, what what resource?
Book, podcasts, events, anything like that that you would recommend for a business owner listening right now that's helped you? So this is So I listen to, you know, I I walk I listen to stuff all the time, but the the one that I actually just, like, liked the most, it's, like, not even the most, like, in-depth, but to me, it's just a, like, a very nice high level. I listen to market NPR's Kyra's Dollar marketplace. I listen to that almost every day.
It's like 30 minutes, quick hitter, have my AirPods in. And I I think the reason that I like that one so much is it say, like, It's a 101 level macroeconomic, generally, US. And it does have some worldwide stuff in me, like, I'm I'm buying cooking a water from the Philippines. So, you know, like, about backups in the port of LA last year, like, that that was making my life suck. But just I I like just hearing stories about people talking about just like business.
And and I think the reason I like that one so much is that most of it's not actually about stuff that's, like, specifically mine, but there's always just, like, little stories of how people see the world and what they're just dealing with on a day to day level. Then I just have always just found myself, you know, for years just like listening because one I think is just enjoyable.
I always I always learn stuff about different people's businesses, and I always think it just rubs off in some way that, like, oh, you know what? Like, I've seen something like Chaz, or how's that in my business and I know how or have a situation or conversation where I've just I've learned something about that. So that's that's why I like Absolutely. I like current and daily stuff like that too. So Yeah. It keeps you informed. Or at least at least you feel informed.
Yeah. Yeah. We feel we feel in control. Whether we are or not, we we can at least position ourselves to feel that way. Totally. What do you you've kind of already mentioned this a little bit, but I wanna dig into your feelings around networking and or masterminding with other entrepreneurs specifically, more than just maybe listening, but actually, you know, doing the thing.
Yeah. In So we have been we actually have our our our meeting on the schedule because we were a little slow over the last year. I think we only had one meeting, and we we had been going quarterly. And it's and I think that's that's the reason my point is that, like, it's so necessary, and it's one of those things that it's always just, like, There's a million excuses always about why you can't do it. I got this. I got I got travel. I got this. I got it.
And And the reason why to me it's so important and so necessary is that one, we've had the same group of people that are almost like. 6, 7 years now. So there's an incredibly high level of trust trust empathy openness that, like, you could say whatever you need to there. Guys talk about more than just business, but it's mostly just because people can bring personal people can bring whatever they need.
And there's enough time to, like, see, you know, when you tell someone you're gonna do something and you can come back in a year later, you can actually have, like, you had a year to do this. Where are we at? But That's right. But it's so it's so important. And I Wolfe say so hard. And if you haven't gone from 0 to 1 or even if it's you you've been to 1 to I don't know. Like, 1 to 10, but, like, you need to do 11.
And it's it's always so hard, or in your mind, you Chaz give yourself some of your reasons why, like, Oh, I can't do it this month. Like, I too much this, too much not. But every time that we go, every time. My brother and I always walk in and and we go we go as a a 2 for 1. We always just walk away. Like, damn. I learned, like, this is this is our, you know, and and it's always we generally try and do it around, like, you know, planning for next quarters and things like that. We're not.
It's gonna be a problem. Like, we're always seems like this like, I I understand my quarter so clearly. And especially we'd have to get in there and, like, explain it to people who, your peers who are gonna hold you accountable. It explained to them, like, in a minute of a why this is important, why we're gonna dedicate our time to this. So, like, so So why are we doing this and not that? And you have to, like, really explain it and dig in. Like, it's it's so hard.
It's hard, but it's so valuable. And it really forces you to prioritize and understand, like, what you need to be doing through business. So Yeah. Yeah. You've given you've given a real perspective of the agitation of of a group or a mastermind you know, Napoleon Hill talks about this and thinking grow rich. It's actually why I started gathering the Kings because I felt like a lot of masterminds were either, like, an event or you know, surface level.
A lot of the big corporate ones, you know, it's like it's good, but, like, it never really went anywhere. I never had anybody saying, well, we'll but why? Why is that important, like, what you were just talking about? It's the agitation Mhmm. Of one mind to another or 10 or 12 or 30 or 40, whatever the number is. Man, and when you walk away from a lot of agitation, there's a lot of, like, well, fireworks going on, and you're like, man, not only do I have a full tank to just go run again.
I've got some ideas that could propel us to the next level. Obviously, there's implementation. Oh, that's still left to do, but good stuff. I I got a question for you. It's interesting because you're in business with your family, but I also know that you've got a wife and a toddler that you mentioned earlier. So my question around family is this. I believe that there is no such thing as work life balance. In fact, what I believe in is work life obsession. And we're obsessing our businesses.
We just got done talking about that for the last half hour. Yep. How have you been able to obsess about your family? And maybe even, you know, especially with your brother being your business partner, how do you do that in addition to the business at the same time all in? So with my brother, our Venn diagram is, like, the circles are almost, like, exactly the same.
And for us, like, a lot of the our our childhood and I just mentioned hockey's like, so we're we're still We're now, like, the, you know, thirty six year olds that play men's league hockey together and, like, it's like, you still have that, like, workout. Laurie, it is. Yeah. Over still still have right in the midst of it. So we still, like, have this, you know, compete hard in business Chaz, like like, plague sports and working out shows. Like, that's that's a lot of our art.
Hard super tight times. Our mom lives in the area, so we're still super close with her. We regularly see her just dinners on the weekends or things like that. So that's a big part of us.
And I would say, you know, they're that part of our relationship that's outside of outside of the business, That that actually that's almost some of the easiest stuff we do because we're our, like I said, kind of the core of our business has always been like this fitness place, and that's that's what started this and that still burns, like, harm. And we still love doing that. We work, like I said, work out together almost every day. And so that that just takes its place well.
The ratio with my family in this house here, my wife, my toddler, that's that's super difficult is the honest answer. And and for me running a small business. She's, like I said, a resident, finished some Chaz stuff. It's like, her schedule sucks as much as I am. You know, And oftentimes, like, she'll come home and she's actually dealing with life and death stuff there comes home and is spent to a level that, you know, I think I've been spent dealing with, like, bad suppliers or stuff like that.
She's like, someone died on the table today. And then you're just like, You know, and and understanding, like, wow, there's there's a just a a a level of just perspective and empathy that, like, has grown a ton where oftentimes, you know, feel like you're the star girl to show it. It's just like, man, my date was, oh, I can't believe it today. And then coming home with that. So what we've tried to do, but it's not always happened, but I've really tried to do it.
It's just trying to make sure, like, daily, but if we least try and maybe do it five times a week is that there is just an individual time after the baby goes to bed. Oh, that's no devices, like, unless, like, we're gonna we're gonna clean our closet. We're gonna build a shelf.
We're just gonna do, like, these things where it's just like us, together, doing a thing, and we're gonna just take our time to just not and, like, I'm I'm actually like, I don't wanna I don't wanna sit here and watch a Netflix show with you. I wanna actually just, like, have no TV on, no nothing. We're gonna do something together and and having that just an actual time that we're, like, making a real effort consistently to just connect has been challenging.
And, like, Chaz for for both of us, like, there's never enough time, and you have to put in work to do it. But our relationship's so much better when we go. Yeah. I love I love the authenticity there. I have yet to interview a person that says, yeah. We got that one all wrapped up effective. Yeah. We have no room for improvement in this area. Is it real? For sure. Real? Okay. I got one last question here for you. I wanna know.
You had an opportunity to whisper in the younger Brandon's ear, what would you say? Oh, so I I guess I'll I'm gonna give a business answer here because I I think there's a lot of these other, like, life ones that I that I could give, but I'm gonna I'm gonna give a business 1. Sure. It would be know your expenses. When I started this. And then if it was just gonna be a high level life 1, my answer would just be enjoy the moment.
And from a business perspective, I wasted time, money, lots of it, not knowing my expenses and what they actually meant. And and you know, if I were able to restart it, I think I'd be so much better because I haven't, you know, I'd still carry a lot of these scars about these bad decisions we made, but that's all part of it. And if I were to say, you know, on on that life, on the life back to Brandon, you know, and I guess I'm using, like, earlier entrepreneurial day. So, you know, okay.
I'm I'm done playing hockey now. I'm an adult. What what are we doing next? And it would be to enjoy just the the journey and the ride more. And that I think a lot of what you know, has come to define me. It's just the journey more than resolved. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Good. I think that we can all relate to that. I think that even if we've heard that, it's tough to, in the moment, go, you know what? I'm supposed to supposed to enjoy this moment. Yeah. It's done.
It's like tell that to this supplier right now, but it's just like, you know what? Like, I'm building something hard and And they said, I I get I get the chance to work on this, and and I think what is the Incredible perspective. Part that, like, Not not that for the if you're banker and love it, then that's good for you. But, like, I could be I could be doing a banking job. I don't like. And that could be the that could be the alternative. You know what I mean?
It's not and if I don't have the and I I have the chance to carve my own path and and work on something they wanna do and and it wouldn't be fulfilling and meaningful and everything if it wasn't hard. And there's gonna be all these all of these constant roadblocks or whatever you wanna call them. And that's that that's it. But, like, how you navigate them, how you work through it. Like, that's what makes it so rewarding.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If we if we didn't work out so hard, we wouldn't need that to that really clean fuel. That's right. So the sports drink afterwards. Right? Yeah. So Brandon, I gotta I gotta know, number 1, how do we find your products? Tell us what your website. Tell us what's on the website. What are we gonna find there? And then, of course, how can we connect with you as an entrepreneur? Cool. So website is drinknewba.com.din0oma.com.
When you get there, what you'll see, we make cleanest few on the market. 3 products. Well, 41 of them's out of stock right now.
Energy drink, recovery drinks, sports drink, and and what this is is a a take on what you kinda, you know, grew up drinking or may see in the market, but in a real clean, simple ingredient way So our energy drink, organic green coffee bean, we're using on our a sports drink, coconut water, pink Himalayan salt, our recovery drink is cherry juice and turmeric across the board, and no added sugar, all organic, just real clean products.
And I think when you taste this taste our products, try them out. What you'll see a notice is that, you know, we don't have a a cotton candy or, you know, just just flavors that Don't add value. Yeah. Don't add value. They're just like, well, this is obviously crap. These are just these are real ingredient products, and that's that's what our our company's built on. I would I would recommend we have a sampler pack that's just one of everything you try and maul out. I made a promo code So Video.
Yeah. So if you go over to our website, I'm gonna use King Thirty and for first purchases, 30% off your first order. Keep it open for a month after the show runs. So you need to check them out, and I'd love to just, you know, hear your feedbacks on the product. We're always, I mean, feedback on products has been so so key for us. So please let me know what you think. We're always trying to get better on that. Then in terms of, like I said, you can find that's where you can find the business.
Me and generally the best for me. So, you know, Brandon Smith, Newman, that you'll be able to find me there. Send me a message. Happy to connect. Not super active on on Twitter or just other social. So Yeah. That's okay. We'll put all that in show notes. And just to recap here, You gotta go to drink numa.com to get the promo king 30. It's gonna get you 30% off. I love I love when guests do this because it gives us an opportunity to to partner with you.
And then I'll be getting getting a sample pack myself and seeing what we can do with this product because we love clean stuff. My wife more than more than me. That's okay. I'm on the bandwagon. Don't worry. Yeah. Yep. She she drags me along, and and I I do what I'm told. No problem. Smart. It's right. Exactly. Smart. Brandon, you've been incredible. Thank you for just authenticity here today. Not only just the authenticity of your ingredients in your product.
I think that's important to note, but just in your story, man. I love what you're doing with your business. I love what you're doing with your family. Even though it's tough, I can I can get behind a guy like you that said I was doing it real? So appreciate you being here. Blessings on your family. Blessings on your business. All the things that you touch in 2023. Thanks for being here, brother. Cool. Thanks, Jess. Thank you for listening to Gathering the Kings today.
Hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses in multiple different industries and now interviewing literally over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings literally exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1000 kings, specifically who are great full, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe. That in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you sharp qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gathering the king's dot com.
I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.