On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. What what can you give us that we can go implement into our business that's worked for you? It's Hands down, the best thing that I've done, the best decision I've made, is is really You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars, from business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be.
We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the real of the real on what it takes to build a successful business today. We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along the way that give each true and accurate picture of the journey of success and how you too can get there. Through this dialogue, you will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and keys like today's guest.
Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in. Alright. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, gathering the king's podcast today. I've got Paul Moss here on the king stage. My brother, Paul. How we doing? Hello? Happy Monday. Right? Yes. Yes. Here we are. Other people hate Mondays. I I don't mind though. You know, I have found whether it's Monday or just in the morning each each day that I I'm excited whether it's Monday or just another day as long as my dream's big enough.
Would you agree with that? Yeah. I agree. I agree. It's like Christmas. Like, just I can't wait to wake up again to get at it. And I think that we can lose sight as that as as entrepreneurs, but I wanna talk about your business here today and your story. Paul tells what kind of business that you have. I've got a few, my primary business in auto insurance, and We're looking to revolutionize that space. Oh, we'd crave.
We've literally created a product that that makes it very simple for the consumer, not only to get through, but also to understand what product they're buying. I'm also working on a weight loss with different type weight loss and and also working in health insurance. Well, somewhat connected there.
If you kinda did them in the order that you did, you got insurance, and then and then health and then health insurance kinda bring it all together, but kinda different industries, different buildings of of of industry. And so I definitely wanna get into that some of your story there. Before we do, what's the burning desire inside of Palmas? Why are you really doing all this? So so mine it? Mine is very simple. Everyone says to do things for yourselves. Well, I'm good.
I there's two things that work a lot with impoverished youth in the Cleveland, Ohio. And I want to have a platform where they can get jobs. I can facilitate. They can learn. They can see it's tangible. Yeah. So that's one that's one driving passion. The other one is I work a lot with villages in Africa. They have a they have a 38 year life span. And they believe Chaz education is the key to success.
And so I found ways that we can enhance the education these villages that don't otherwise get resources. And and so for me, you know, at this point, those are my 2 driving passions from, you know, monetary perspective. Yeah. Obviously, I wanna always be a good example for my daughter. It's very straightforward and simple. And then my one guilty pleasure, the only thing really that I spend money on is travel. And so, you know, trying to put these put these travel bills.
So I I want to when I hire quote unquote, which means basically Juliet turns 18 and and flies in the nest, and I'm not, you know, in in captive in one place, I really I really want to be remote at 6 to 9 months a year. So that's that's pretty cool. It it have just on that note, I mean, I'm a I haven't traveled a ton, but I do enjoy to travel. What's the top place that you've been to that you would continue to go back to?
I really like going to different places, but these villages in Africa really have my heart. Okay. And you go to these places and and you you realize they've gotten no money, but they're genuinely happy. Right? It's good. And and then we look at our society. Right? We look at what we're doing, and and we have everyone stressed out anxious, Right? And to get people have resources, people eat. Right? People have shelter.
And so one of the things I've been trying to solve for is I go back and forth is try to figure out why do they have calling this peace of mind? And even though they don't have any. Right? They literally live in houses made out of food. Literally. Right? So so, anyway, so that that is my that is my happy place.
Put you put you in a little bit of a mind conundrum, especially, like you said, if if you, you know, the contrasting worlds, of course, would you encourage the listeners if they haven't been too a place of the world like that to go and just experience the what you're talking about? I think I think it's a life incomplete if you don't. Candidly. You can do it for less money than you think.
I mean, plates right now are pretty obscene, but other than that, once you get there, you can do it for reasonable. But here here's the thing. So my daughter's 10. She's been in the 50 countries. She's been at 40 states, so she's traveled. Chaz well traveled. In the United States, you don't get you don't you don't truly see poverty. You don't see kids on the streets. You don't see kids working. You know, you go to India. You see three year olds literally running the family business on a corner.
Right? Yep. And so and so as a parent, when you're trying to teach your children lessons about that there, you know, there are poverty stricken people Chaz when when he, you know, historically, there's an empty threat, like, you know, you know, you're lucky that you get to eat. Right? When you're when the person you're trying to teach has actually seen it is far more impactful. And when you get to see it, for yourself, you also realize how lucky you are.
Yeah. And and I'm not I'm not trying to discount hard work. We do work hard. In fact, I think I'm a, you know, in a lot of respects. We work harder than, you know, a lot of places, but I we are lucky. We are lucky when you look at a lot of the world's circumstances. Yeah. I remember being in high school and my youth group that I was a part of, we would go to Juarez, Mexico, every summer to build a home. And this Wolfe be, obviously, before, whereas, is what it is today, but same exact thing.
I'm, you know, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 years old Chaz a as a young man. And we drive all the way from the Midwest down there and experience the border crossing and then go into Chaz. And the homes that we're building are on a dump site. Like, what we would consider a dump site. And they've put together makeshift homes with cardboard and probably all the things that you've mentioned.
And so it's like when you can not only visually see that, but then, like, imagine yourself being there physically, we were there for multiple days a week, 10 days at a time to to build a home. And then you do experience. Children or families that have joy or the gratefulness for what it is that you're doing there for them because it just totally changes their Wolfe, Chaz changes you. It marks you.
So when you come back and I no longer had to shower out of a bucket, if we had that luxury that day. Those simple things, even as a young man, I look back and I'm like, I I I simply am grateful each day for working working eyes and working legs and the fact that I had running water, and I could use the restroom and then come out of that room and use water in another room, like, It it just changes your perspective. So I I appreciate you saying that.
What do you think is underneath all of this for your daughter? I mean, I'm just huge on legacy. I'm trying to teach my kids and my grandkids, and I wanna partner with them in business and stuff. But, like, underneath all this, you have a ten year old. I've got a nine year old little girl. What do you what are you really hoping for for her in all these these experiences? So here's the thing. A lot.
I mean, and and I don't I never wanna criticize everybody because they're, you know, it's their truth. It's their reality. But oftentimes, we try to, you know, I think I think there's a number of people who try to live vicariously with their children or have their children you know, perform at an expectation that's there. The parent's expectation, not the child's expectation. Sure. And so, effectively, my goal is not to is not to sear her in any direction.
My goal is to give her a broad enough array of of inputs so that she has these skills to navigate life the way that she wants to and and that she has the ability to make a tangible impact professionally or philanthropically if she chooses to, but it's her light. So, ultimately, she could decide to, you know, be a be an employee at McDonald's, and be an artist. And that would be great too. Right? I just feel my job is to give her the tools to be able to do whatever it is she wants to do.
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That out. Yeah. Of course. And, I mean, and what a what a a phenomenal opportunity being an entrepreneur has allowed you to give to her, not only the freedom to travel, but then obviously the the income and wealth. Alright. Well, let's get let's get into some nitty gritty here. I wanna know of a good decision. Paul, you made in business. Obviously, you're in different industries. We've got lots of different industries listening.
What can you give us that we can go implement into our business that's worked for you? It's hands down. The best thing that I've done the best decision I've made is is really forcing myself to self actualize. And recognizing what skill sets I truly have and which ones I think I have. Right? Because that's not for newer Sometimes we're in positions where, in fact, often Yeah. We're in positions where we have to spin all the plates. Right?
Yep. But as you're able to start accumulating, you know, people around you, your your you have to shore your weaknesses, right, with that team and make sure that they have complimentary skill sets to yours. So that you truly can you truly can shore all those weaknesses so that as you bring up your organization, you can can bring it up evenly. Yeah. Otherwise, Otherwise, your culture and your organization will be defunct in some areas.
And that culture that you establish early is really hard to change later. Yeah. And so and so that's, you know, that's a big one. The other thing is, you know, I I look at it you know, you want to hire smarter and this is cliche. Right? The part of this cliche is you wanna hire smarter, better, etcetera. You wanna hire people drive, which isn't always defined anymore.
You really and and and with you with YouTube and other places teaching people how to interview, you really have to be careful because you can get I got duped like, 14 straight times I Chaz, and I realized, okay. I gotta calibrate the world's changed. Yep. But as you're bringing on these people around you, and then your job as CEO, because because if you bring on somebody really intelligent and you teach them your business, right, all of a sudden, you've raised the threat. Right?
You've raised you've literally homegrown the thing that can knock you out, kinda like, you know, Musk from building artificial intelligence. Right? So so what you have to do is you have to make your workplace, one that people want to show up for, be creative for, and one that they don't wanna leave. So, honestly, that's my primary job as CEO is to attract the talent and retain the talent and make it make make it an interesting workplace.
Yeah. I I love that you gave 2 dynamics here, of course, of, you know, you knowing yourself Chaz gives you the idea to build a team and then, of course, providing a culture to not only attracts the team, but but keeps team. I wanna go back to your first point because I think that the way that you said it was just pretty unique, very similar to some of my beliefs about knowing yourself first mastering Wolfe and then being able to modify or even build a team specifically around that.
And then, of course, we have to do the same thing for our leaders as well. We have to help them build a team around them. Just like, you know, what we're talking about. So going back to that self awareness that you pe that you is there a certain process that you have of of getting to know yourself, knowing your strengths and weaknesses, something that you can share with the listener? The key is watching downstream data points. K? K. It's fine.
So it's So an example is as I was going through, you know, my my the the first company, I realized that people, like, I would I would strike fear in people or I would overwhelm them. Right? And so I realized the first thing that I needed is somebody who could speak my language, but translate it to my team. Sure. Right? And then once I was able to get somebody who would translate all of a sudden wasn't daunting anymore.
People were able to I was able to titrate the information, you know, through this through the interstitial person in a way that was digestible and actionable. And so that was that was one example, but it was watching the data points of not getting what I wanted. Right? Right? And then instead of and and and the easiest thing to do is, like, damn it. Why can't they figure this out? Why can't they do this? Right? But that's where you need the mirror. Right? And and and that mirror is not easy.
That's right. But it's necessary. Yeah. It's being honest, which yourself. And and I think ego gets in the way. Obviously, it's our business. It's our way, you know, and it's pretty easy just to say that they can't keep up. What I heard you say is that entrepreneurs are often really in tense, not only just in in the way that they think.
Obviously, you're the one willing to take all the risks, but even just in the way that we operate, the way that we communicate, the way that the pace that we that we operate at. The fact that we've got 1919 or 900 things going on all at the same time, like you said, and then this one individual that we're talking to, we're just like, you know, and they're just, yeah, you know, on overload. And so you're right. Not only is that in between.
What it what would you say to the guy listening to right now who can't put somebody in between yet. Maybe the finances aren't there. The resources aren't there. Would you say to to squeeze and do that, or would you say there's ways to modify yourself until you can get the revenue. Like, what would you say to the to the little guy listening right now? Well, here's the thing. It's that passionate authenticity that attracts other people too. That's right.
And so you can't lose so so that's that's you can't lose that. Right? So so one of the things that you can do and it's difficult Right? You actually have to work on it. I mean, one of the things that I had to work on was EQ. Right? I had to train myself emotional intelligence. Right? I literally I literally took the book, and I literally, like, trained myself on it. In this instance, one of the things that we do and again, I don't like to speak rather but sometimes it's it's difficult.
But one of the things that we do is we give we, you know, we'll give a directive and then we'll move on. Right? Yep. There are things that things that should be associated with that if you don't have an ability to put somebody in the middle. So, for example, Have that person repeat back to you what they heard, Jay, and I know that's, again, this is not this is not something you haven't heard before, but but they're not doing it. Right.
If you don't have that mechanism, put somebody in between, and also have a tangible have a tangible, quantifiable deliverable with a deliverable date. Yeah. Write it down and make sure that you follow-up on Yeah. Right? And so those are two ways that you can make sure that, you know, your intensity because you don't wanna lose you. Right? Right. But the the hardest thing that we do, like, again, like, down there, we're speaking for other people.
But the hardest thing that I that that that I did is I kept on trying failing myself to other people. Right. And at some point and at some point, like, I got you a space, you know, several years in where I realized by by conforming all these things that I was and and me, I don't have a prison for myself, and it was no and it was no longer fun. Right? And so and and and the genius of me, right, and the genius that, like, creates the business, well, all of a sudden, it gets muted. That's right.
Right. And these are, like, this is the balance, and this is these are the hardest things about, you know, about being an entrepreneur. The things that you don't hear, you know, you don't hear on Shark Tank or, you know, hey. I'm raising a series a or b or angel around. You know, like, you don't hear any of this stuff. And this is and this is this is the stuff that you have to work through, and this is what turns, right, the average average business last less than 5 years. Right? That's right.
It's this middling phase Yeah. That people don't account for. Everybody account for the product. Everybody accounts for the funding. Right? But it's this transition and this learning and it's the middling. That's the difference between, you know, less than 5 year and a greater than Yeah. Well, I just have to continue your plug there that, you know, you're they don't hear it on Shark Tank, but they heard it on gathering the Kings with Paul Moss, you know?
I do appreciate the setup there, but in in all seriousness, you're right. There there's a there's a a level of understanding that we must have. That was your first point. You have to get to know yourself in a deep way so that you know how to be able to modify or land the information accordingly.
However, there's a caveat to that, which Paul just just did a such a great job is that you can't lose yourself, which, you know, especially in today's politically correct environment, it's super easy to change yourself for someone else a lot of different areas, and then and then you're not you anymore. So thank you for giving that to us. It's interesting, though, the concept that you had mentioned as far as like, hey. What did you hear from me?
That's that's something super easy that that entrepreneurs can do at a high level that are super intense and saying 17 things at once for them to be able to repeat back the 1 or 2 things coming to an agreement on the measurable set a date and and move forward. So I think it's super, super tangible. Hope that they're paying attention. Taking notes. What about a bad decision, Paul? What did you do that say you wouldn't ever wanna do again? You learned that lesson, and you can share with us.
So I I I went to work for a company or for a very brief amount of time between, you know, big job at insurance.com and starting this company. And and I went to I went to my my boss. And I said, look, I'm working 1 hour a day for you. I was doing my job, but I'm not fulfilled. You know, I need to work I need to work 16 hours a day, not 1. Right? And so I said, what I'd like to do is I'd like to switch my employment contract into a consulting contract. I'll continue my job for you. Right?
You'll get me at a discount. You'll get the same job at a discount, and and we can accomplish all your goals. And then I can also my goal. So that's how I, you know, that's how I flipped the organization. Right? Or that's how I flipped into an entrepreneur. And he said to me, two things you he's like he's like, I appreciate that, Paul. You know, thanks for not leaving me in the alerts. There's two things that you need to do.
You need to make sure that you you pay legal, and you need to make sure that you pay accounting from the get. Don't like, those are two things. Don't jerk on those expenses. Wolfe, you know, as a as a I don't know that I was ever caught at it, but but but as maybe, like, maybe as somebody who thought, like, I I'll figure it out. As somebody who had no money to invest in legal and and and That's right. Accounting. I I absolutely did not take his advice.
And I will say, you know, that was not showing those things from the beginning, right, where my biz my biggest expenses later on from a tangible, quantifiable dollar perspective. I mean, I spent, you know, I spent near 8 figures cleaning up the legal around those mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I hope that the listener just heard what you said. You spent 8 figures. Not not made eight figures. Not did eight figures in revenue, but you spent eight figures on cleaning.
I I think that it's those little things that we we know you knew it was right when he when he when he he said it to you. When you heard it, you knew. But then that other voice was like, Where are you gonna get the money? You don't have it. You'll worry about that later. Right? And I think that you're right. We do that as entrepreneurs a lot. What in that moment does the listener need to do big or small? Because this is a this is not a early business thing.
This is just like when you're in business, you know that something comes across your desk and you're like, I should do that. What should they be saying to themselves instead of? I'll do it later. Like, what's what's your formula Look. These are the thing. I mean, I go into every business no matter what, like, bootstrapping. Right?
I just think that it sets the right culture and it makes it lean, and you make you make I think you I like the decisions I make when it's a bootstrapped organization versus, like, a business that doesn't have to get creative and has all the fun. Right. And so and so this what I love about this is if you don't have the funds, like, this is this is your differentiation.
And this will end up being your differentiation down the road because when when as you figure out how to be lean, as you figure out, that also makes you nimble. Right? This is when the market pivots. Your competitors won't be able to hang because you've raised the culture and you started the culture, that's gotten ahead of the curve. And so you'll your organization culturally will be more creative than the rest you'll be ready to move. You'll be you'll be fleet putted.
Whereas most of these other organizations and and and a lot of organizations that bring in these dollars, they have spend them. Right? So they they they invest in space. They invest in high profile employees. They invest in, you know, these plants. Right? They and all of the sudden when when times get tight, they don't have the leeway to make moves. Whereas if you can pay attention to it, if you don't have the money, don't just say I don't have the money. Figure it out.
And is that creativity of figuring it out or or empower somebody else to figure it out? Hey. I really need, like, the organization really needs to figure out legal, but we really don't have this. You know, we really don't have the resources. And so maybe you know, at this point in time, people probably have more of a cheat code with Chaz, GPT. Right? But but but it's that creativity that can empower people make people feel invested. Right?
And then ultimately set you up for a far better culture moving forward. Yeah. I love that.
I I actually read the other day that It's the desire for more, or in this case, the desire for the the next thing that maybe you you you can't achieve yet because of resource or you've achieved something, but now you want the goal, and some people look at that as, you know, like, never being, you know, satisfied and not being, you know, not being able to be content and all these things, but it actually, what it does, what you just said is forces your brain
to go into a creative space to be able to get the next thing. The next goal, figure out legal when you can't afford it, you know, whatever that box is. You can't actually figure it out unless first the desire is to go do it, and you don't know how. So it forces your brain into a creative space. Which I just love Chaz. Let me follow-up if you don't mind.
Yep. I read something a couple of years ago that really stuck with me, and it's a it's a test to litmus tests that I give myself every year that I get older. You you take a brick and a five year old can come up with 60 different things to do with one brick. Right? This is a good exercise. You give a you give a you give a forty year old a brick, and that person can can figure out one thing to do with the bricks. Right? And so what it tells me is that there there are other ways. Right?
There are other things that can there's other ways that can get done We just it's just this complacency or it's something that we shut down over time Chaz that is not to renew or I think you just have to expand. Yeah. I mean, I don't know of any adult that's gonna think I can use the brick to stand in the pantry and get the cookies. I'm just thinking of my three year old son right now and what he would use the brick for. That's what led me to that creative thoughts.
Yeah. You know, but you but but to your point, I think that that's just an incredible exercise. For the listener, if you haven't done this, this exercise, just sitting down and just writing out what what are the possibilities that you can use a brick for? It it's actually pretty profound. Thanks for sharing that with us. I wanna go to the speed round here, Paul. My first question is around KPIs. I like to say it like this. You can only pick one thing to track forever and ever.
What would that one thing be? I mean, and I and I don't know if it's always, like, quantifiable or tangible, but it's it's the pro productivity per minute worked. Okay. So and that's not an easy one to to figure out, but look. You you the reality is the the work life balance is becoming bigger and bigger. Right? And you your people are going to be forced if they don't already give their employees that grace. That's going to be necessary, but you need you need your output.
And the other thing that the other thing that comes with that is, you know, we've gone to 4 day work weeks. The other thing that comes with that is is is this this this disruption society. Right? So people get texts all the time. People get IMs all the time. Right? Right. But if you're in a space, it takes you 28 minutes to get back to that train of thought or into the fluidity of that train of thought. Right? If you get disrupted, yet people are getting disrupted all day. Right?
Yeah. How do you get deeper into that creativity space? And so the other thing is Chaz and the reason that it's a measurement, if you need, like, Like, you can do way more in a 4 day work week than a 5 day work if you want to, but you have to have that time captive to working. Right? Right. And so you have to create blocks under uninterrupted. And so that would be the the KPI that that I would be the most and further exploring.
And but that would be the most indicative of of what's what our results are. Yeah. I I agree with you. There's a lot of productivity I guess, hacks. Really, it's not they're not even really hacks. It's just stay focused. But I think that what what what you just said, even even to myself as a an entrepreneur of multiple businesses and lots of employees, and it's like, I still find myself. Me, I know what you just said. I've taught what you just said. And I find myself going, okay.
Wow. I just did three things in the last 60 seconds, and I'd I'm just pinging back and forth constantly. So how how does one overcome that? A little bit of is it an attention thing that our society, our phones, social media, like, all that's kinda trained us to do. How do we get rid of it? It has to be intentional. It it just, like, you're like you said, few seconds ago. You know, the hack is focused, but it but it has to be intentional.
You Yeah. Our society no longer sets up for you to focus on one thing. It it it focuses to pull you in every direction, and it's genius. Right? That's how people get support in 100 companies. Right? That's how it works, but they're set up to work their agenda against you. And the thing that I always the thing, like, my the thing that I will always say is just because it's somebody else's priority, that doesn't make it your priority. That's right. Right?
So somebody's texting you at that time, right, or I am ing you. Okay. That's their priority. Their priority at that moment But why do we feel like we have to reply within seconds? Because we may be somewhere else. But we feel this obligation. Right? Yeah. And there's even a pressure. Hey. Are they mad at me now? Like, why aren't they replying? Right? Wolfe, yep. You need to you need to you need to take your priorities. You need to own them, and you need to abide by them. That's right.
That's right. And I care. What what others think? Or Correct. And it's not easy. We're not set up for that anymore, but but nobody else has your goals. Nobody else is trying to do what you're doing. Right? And so so it's just something to be highly conscientious of. And what you'll find is amazing. I mean, as CEOs, right, As CEOs, one day, you know, what they're literally 1 minute, have to have a very present conversation about somebody whose parent just got cancer. Right? Right.
The next minute, literally, the next minute, we'll have somebody we're talking to somebody about not cheating. I mean, the the they're they're like cheating or they're being dishonest. Right? And you literally have to be able to to staff through The next minute you could be making a decision on funding on overhead on employee somebody on shutting down a division on and you're going through these decisions, right, rapidly. So so, you know, nobody else's nobody else is there.
What else is doing, what you are doing, and understands what you have to do, and where your mind has to go, how fast it has to go in order to make this stuff work. So anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. There's a silo that's created because of that. I wanna ask you about that here in a second. The the the that we have to dial in or even be able to help our people dial in.
Like you said, I think there's this ability that we're gonna have to have as entrepreneurs as CEOs to be able to produce a culture for a work week, remote, whatever the the the solution is for your organization, Some of the knee some of those some of the organization listening, neither one of those things that you and I both do mostly remote or 4 day work weeks for me I need for you. They don't work for that. Like, okay. I have portfolio companies.
We'll, okay, within a remodeling company or in a like, you you just, like, sorry. We gotta go to the job site and do the remodeling. That's just not how it However, being aware of those things or, like, what you call the work life balance, I think is important. It is funny, though, because I wanna transition using this because I've dubbed the phrase work life obsession. For the entrepreneur. And and so I've just been using us, so I mean, by dubbed, I haven't done anything.
I do on the website actually obsession. I I did buy that the other day. I've been saying it enough. I'm like, I should probably buy this. But here's what I mean. As an entrepreneur, it's I I find the balance, quote, unquote, very difficult because there there is no real line. And to me, the the definition of balance is taking one to give to the other, and that's just not how it works for us. For me, I I really do feel like it's a it's a combination.
It's an obsession of your daughter and the businesses or whatever it looks like. So for you, my question is, How have you done that? How have you gone after all of it in a burning desire obsession way like you did in your side of your business, but also with your daughter at the same time? So When I had a child, he might contemplate it. 1, I knew the world was going to hell in a handbasket know that I wanted to expose another human being to that.
2, I wanted to make sure that I was going to be the best parent that I could possibly be. Yeah. And so and so I don't commit to anything that I can't immerse myself into and give it and give it what it needs. And so good. So I made a conscious decision to be a parent. I had my child at 36. And at that point in time, I had enough patience to to deal. With the things that are required to be a parent, the patients that's required to be a parent.
The other thing is I've learned enough about being a CEO that I could also manage the organization. At the time, I could also manage the organization and set the organization up that it didn't need me. Every second of every day. Right? And I still needed me, but it didn't need the intensity. You know, before I had my daughter, it was 16 day work week, 6 days a week. Right? Yep. And and and once I and then and I traveled all the time. Right?
Now I haven't been away from my daughter for more than 1 night because of travel. Right? And, yeah, does that mean, like, you know, a red eye from, you know, Cleveland, New York or whatever. Yeah. It does. Right? But but I wasn't going to sacrifice being a parent for my business. Yeah. Well, I love what you just said that that that it read eye example, I think that that's it's just an incredible confirmation of this work life obsession that an entrepreneur must have.
You didn't wanna give up the meeting or the reason for travel. But you weren't gonna give up being there for your daughter either. And so there is no balance in that scenario. It's both. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna freaking execute the meeting, and we're gonna freaking win. And I'm gonna be back for dinner. Yeah. You know? And I was talking to a guy and in our mastermind group gathering the Kings for 7, 8 figures, but literally just yesterday, we were both on flights. And, he's traveling.
I got delayed. He got delayed. We're going in two different directions. And he was like, man, this stuff makes me just wanna drive sometimes. I'm like, forget that. I'm trying to buy a plane. I got the king the king air, whatever, whatever identify it. Like, I'm not trying to drive. The point is is that we both wanna control so that we could still we we so we could do both. Right? That's that's really what it's about, and so I just love that example.
You'd be willing to give up this extra little bit of sleep or in whatever because they're both important. I think that's just an incredible example of exactly what I mean. You wanna add anything to that? No. The only I wanna add is, like, if you look this side of the view, it's the it's the private. That's a private airport. That I watch. And then and it's, you know, I watch these planes come in and out all day. And, yeah, it can provide some motivation. That's right. That's right.
Yeah. Well, you know, there's, like, there's a there's a pilot in our group, and then there's, like, 3 or 4 guys, you know, that are just a little bit crazy enough where we're like, you know, hey. It's actually a really Let's just going together on this thing. You know? So maybe maybe, we'll have a a separate conversation after the recording here, Paul. There you go.
Yeah. I wanna ask you about intentionally networking or Mastermind, and you talked earlier about making decisions or kind of doing things in a in a rapid pace, which eventually, what you said is that there's no one else around you like that. It it it creates a silo for the business. Or for the entrepreneur, I mean, the CEO, we know this to be true. So I wouldn't guys like you and I even get on a podcast.
It's like, man, we could just flow because it's like, man, I don't really get to talk about stuff like this with my team or my spouse or my kids. You know? So Right. What have you done around networking or maybe even mastermind groups that has helped you or what value have you gotten from other entrepreneurs So so first of all, I did it wrong most of most of most of the time. I really put myself on an island, and I really would get lonely. Right? Yeah. It's true.
Yeah. Chaz lonely as solving my own problems, not not collaborating with anyone. I ended up joining a CEO group later on down the road, and that CEO group you know, in your group, you're there's not allowed to have anyone in your own industry. So it's literally, you know, I was I was sitting here and, you know, I'm a I'm an online platform guy and, you know, and I was and I was talking with people that are doing metal stampings. Right? Right. Right.
And the trust, right, completely separate industries, but I realized that we all have the same problems in this group. And and, you know, what was what was my stressful you know, anxiety ridden month is somebody else's, like, Tuesday, 10 o'clock. Right? I'm like, wait a minute. Like, okay. Why am I sitting here bringing on so much burden trying to solve these problems that other people have solved a million times? I'm reinventing a wheel That's that's that's ironic. Right?
And so when you start to talk to people, you realize that all of these things that you're stressing out about are literally They're they're literally somebody else's alleywick. So so quit. Quit overstressing about it. Quit overthinking it. Right? Go go educate yourself on how to solve for that problem and then and then make a decision and execute and move on. Right? I love it. I love it. You said you said one key thing there that I think that some people still missed.
Maybe they were even part of a group right now, and they go to the group specifically looking for an answer, which is fine. That's okay. When people join Gathering and the Kings, I'm all I always ask them, you know, you're gonna spend time money effort Like, what do you want in exchange for that? I gotta make sure I can deliver it. Otherwise, there's no sense in you joining. But sometimes the the the back and forth, the value isn't necessarily a specific answer or a specific key.
Like, here you go, this solves your problem. Although that happens, plenty of times, and I'm sure it I'm sure it did for you as well. What you just said though was I got into a room of people that thought differently And Chaz, by itself, just the energy of someone else having my big problem as their little problem, it it changed my perspective. So when I went back to the table of thinking how to solve this problem, I didn't get the solution from the guy. I just got a different perspective.
And so when I sat down to actually solve the problem, what you said was then I was able to think about it differently I was able to research and find the right answer. I didn't get the answer from the group. I'm not saying that you shouldn't expect answers or advice or whatever from a mastermind group, but what you're looking for is think. I wanna throw up a solution. I wanna I wanna throw up a situation. I want Paul to dissect it, and I wanna just watch Paul.
I don't even really need Paul's answer. Paul's answer. Okay. Fine. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's for me. Maybe it's not. I don't know. As an entrepreneur, I need to figure that out, but I wanna throw something up here in front of Paul, and I'm gonna, like, I wanna watch him look at it. I wanna watch him turn it around. Which angle does he look at it? How does he turn it upside down? How many times does he look at it? Was he taking notes? Like, Who would what movie making?
That that's what I'm really wanting. Would you wanna add anything to that? One is we aggrandize our problems. K? We make them ten times bigger than they really are, and we may and and what happens when we aggrandize is that we add complication That's right. Do it. Unnecessarily. Unnecessarily. And one of the things that I do, so so the personal life included, k, and this is and this actually help a lot of people. It it really helped me.
When we're making decisions, we are we are we are cloud we are clouding and polluting Chaz decision was so much emotion. Right? So much personal bias, so much emotion. And so what I started to do is I started to figure out ways that I could bifurcate or silo out the emotion from the problem. And when you start to do that, then you're actually solving for the problem. And so one of the things that I do is I pretend like I'm watching myself in a move Yeah. Right?
And I'm like, what would I be yelling at the stream? Because usually, the answer is crystal clear. Right? And and we've we've we've complicated it to this point. So so that's that's my that's my secret on how I can how I can declutter The other thing, and this is this is, again, this trans this translates to personal life as well. People Wolfe for symptoms 90% of the time. If not, 95% of the time. Go force yourself to get to the diagnosis. Yeah. K? Actually.
Like and and it's one of those things, like, okay. You could solve a runny nose by getting issue. You could solve it by getting allergy medicine. You could solve it by getting cold medicine. You could solve a runny nose by cutting off your head. Right? But if you have pneumonia and you took allergy medicine, right, you got a problem. And we do this all day long. We chase down these symptoms, and it's so exhausting. Yeah. Because you're you're solving 5 things instead of the 1 culprit.
Yeah. It's good. It's good. That is probably one of the most impactful things that the listeners probably heard all day today, probably that they're gonna hear all week. That's just such a hard thing to do, though. Anything that you could think about, like, okay. Listener just heard you. Tomorrow, they're gonna schedule some some think time, and they're gonna sit down with a notepad and a pen.
And, okay, I'm gonna do this thing Paul told me about and try to find the actual Wolfe What what am I doing to find the root? Yeah. So so one of there are a couple things. I told you I had to teach myself emotional intelligence. Right? To me, it was just simple. Why the fuck can't you see this? Right? It made no, like, like, it's so it's so transparent. Right?
Yep. The the the thing, the other thing that came naturally to me, but that I found Chaz I really needed to work with others on is critically thinking. And so and so this is something that you truly if you don't have it in trends sleep. You're not naturally wired to critically think. This is something that you actually need to pick up a book. Yep. Or a podcast for whatever your medium may be, and you need to you need to figure out how to critically think and work through it.
And there are scientific ways to do it. Again, you're not on an island, but if you don't do it naturally, if you are capricious, if you are I hate this word. If you're if you're a slave to the whim, if you're a slave of the ebbs and flows, you gotta stop. And if you don't know how to stop, you just go educate yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Critically thinking it needs to be pervasive Yep.
Throughout an organization and And and this is something that I I've candidly failed at for a long time Chaz that I'm making sure that doesn't move forward. You when your organization is critically thinking and they know that they're in a safe space. Sounds like a silly word to a lot of old school people, but it's the real word. Right? Right. Psychological safety is a big word. Right? People and p you you need your you need your people to have psychological safety to speak.
Because you need to have substantial conflict because if you can't if you can't if you go through your critical thinking cycles, and they're going through the critical thinking cycles and no one's afraid to talk. People are are willing to share. Yep. Then you can get to the right answer. Right? Right? It's very difficult to get it if everybody's silenced and scared.
Yeah. Yeah. A super practical thing that just happened to one of the folks that says in one of my businesses, just this past week, he was being controlled by his phone. And he took a phone call that he should know. Then I'm like, bro, why did you take that phone call? He's like, well, I answered my phone. I'm like, but why? Why?
Just a simple task of answering any call that comes through, know, first off, I own my calendar, just like we were talking about earlier, I will determine when I take a phone call and who I take a phone call from, but he's in a position in the business where he wanted to make sure he didn't miss a vendor or miss a a sale or, like, in but had not thought about, okay. Well, the people that I should be talking to, I should just save in my phone.
And so that way when people that maybe I should take maybe I should. I don't know. I'm not saying that I shouldn't, but maybe not right now. I get to determine, and I'll try to just show him in the moment as that he didn't have a choice. He was literally a slave to the call. And so he felt as if he was impelled or, that he had to answer every single time, period, because it was, like, he was gonna miss something. It's like, bro, you are a slave.
And and so the determining factor in the or the the critical thinking in that is, what what is it that we're trying to accomplish? What are you trying to Take good care of vendors. You're trying to take good care of, you know, maybe some clients. You're trying to have a good experience. Okay. So, finally, let's look at how how the experience is. When are you meeting with those people, and what are you communicating with them, and how are they reaching out to you? Are they saved in your phone?
The next one, like, the vendor's like, we can do the same thing. Let's just backtrack a couple more steps and actually solve the problem of you running around all over the place because this is not gonna work. Right? So this is something so simple that I'm sure many listeners are are are still struggling with. I was at a conference 6 months ago. This guy has 200 something employees. He was on stage with 5 other very large business owners.
And he he said something about his phone, and he showed it. And he was like, I've gotten 30 text messages from from being helping here on stage. And I used it later when I spoke in a in a breakout room. I'm like, that shouldn't be happening. Guy shouldn't be receiving 30 tax messages in the 45 minutes that he was up on stage. Like, he needs he needs a few more people in place, or he needs some different systems. Like, dude's just getting crumbled in his mind. You know?
And so, anyway, we're kinda getting off off topic here a little bit, but it it stems from your critical thinking. So anything that you wanna add there before I move on? Just real fast. So I removed the email apps from my phone, and I turned off notifications. So that I don't get the dings, and I don't see. I, you know, I was I was I was with somebody yesterday whose inbox was 137,000 messages. And, like, in what universe can you even deal with that? Right?
And then if you think of an email box Chaz has 137 and you think of the notifications that ding every single time that email comes. Right? How much is that? And then what is the psychological response to that that Dean. Oh, I'd we know what it is. Chaz a human being, it's, I have to reply. Think about paying and that you're putting yourself through and the pressure you're putting your body through Right. By by those behaviors.
So so Yeah. So I made conscious decisions to say this is my email time. Right? This is my this is my phone time. This is and so that and when you talk about the balance work by obsession, when you talk about that, like, like, That's the only way that you're going to get it. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta own it and control it from the top down. You I I wanna ask you a question about a resource or a book. You kinda mentioned there's different mediums of of, I guess, resources.
What would you suggest as far as a favorite book, a favorite podcast, something that the listener can take away and and go study? For me, For me, my my my bible is how to win friends and influence people. It's great. Look. Here's the thing about business books. Right? Business books have, like, 90 percent of business books, 95, maybe 99 have 4 paragraphs of unique content. Literally, you could boil it, but they're not gonna sell a book on 4 paragraphs. Right? That's an article.
So then they have to, you know, they have to inflate it. Right? It's literally inflating. The book is, you know, the book is inflating it. The thing that I love about how to win friends and influence people is that literally it is chalk is chock full of value. It's value per word is is is throughout the book, and it's and it's great. Warren Buffett's Warren Buffett's book, but there's a biography.
Actually, I found just fascinating to say, because it just gives tangible examples of what almost anybody could do. Right? Yeah. And achieve I really enjoyed the Phil Knight book as well. And I don't just read them for the stories. I read them for a application. Yeah. Absolutely. And so and then the other thing is anytime you have a chance to be around success, Right?
Anytime, like, you have a chance to watch a billionaire, watch, you know, these people who have had the success that you want, go. Like, figure, like, figure out ways to do it. Absorb. And and and you you'll watch how they carry themselves as differently. But they're not different. That's the thing. Yep. Get a success presence. Yeah. Those aren't gonna change anything soon. Yeah. So I I loved I loved how the, EQ theme has has continued for you throughout the show here.
And and what I mean, it doesn't necessarily mention EQ or or emotional intelligence in when how to influence influence people, but That's like, like you said, it's the Bible of how to how to understand and then communicate with other humans, which is emotional intelligence. You just have to be able to move the needle and guess what? People are the needle. Right? Yeah. Paul, I got one last question here for you, brother. Yep. If you could whisper in the younger Paul's ear, what would you say?
I'm gonna abbreviate a story. So I went to Costa Rica 2 weeks ago, and I did an Ebola journey. K. So a BOGA is you take Ayahuasca and you put it on steroids, right, And I was in the middle. You know, it's a ceremonial place, and I'm sitting there. And and the coolest thing about a boat is it forces you to meet yourself. Like, literally, it like, you you get an inventory of your life. Right? And and and you're sitting there and you have to face it.
And all these things that you hide and suppress and you don't deal with, they come to the surface. Right? And so and so I realized during this 1 week, and here, you know, I'm forty six years old. I realized during this 1 week, a couple of things. 1, I'm okay. I beat myself up a lot. I beat myself up unnecessarily, but, like, when I was getting an inventory of all these things that I've done and I actually faced it instead of ran from it.
I actually was okay with me, and I think I think a lot of us beat ourselves up. I think potentially we do it unnecessarily because I was really healthy. Other thing that I realized on night too is I realized that 90 and Mark Twain said it a 150 years ago, so you know, shame on me, but I have manufactured all of my worst thoughts, and I've manufactured all of my biggest fears. They're not real. Right? Like and I'm talking about, like, as an adult, as a child, they were very real.
As an adult, they're not. I've literally created things that didn't exist. I've literally put roadblocks in front of my way that were Mirajas. And so and so, you know, those, like, what I would whisper is just, like, Wolfe tell myself some signs just to shut the f up. Get out of my head. Right? Yeah. Like and and I'll I will tell you this. Chaz I gotten there, you know, at any point in time before this, the warranty would have been a little bit more fun. Yeah. And it can be.
We, a grant, look, anytime you're an entrepreneur, it's not just you have to be. It's because you want to be. So literally every single one of your problems are voluntary. Yeah. So quick acting like it's critical and must and and I get it. Like, you employees. Right? You have other people you have to take care of. The the here's the deal with employees. They can leave you at any time. They don't have to sit by you. K? They have they are making a choice to be there.
Yeah. Your your obligation to them is for everyday work, you have to pay them. Right? But other than that, right, you don't have an obligation because they are there voluntarily. Right? And so and so quit putting stuff on yourself or what I was for me. It's like it's like quit putting this stuff on myself that doesn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. It's just because yeah. Like, it's like, like, I dealt with, like, gold or, right, or iron iron ore. Forget that. Just deal with the gold.
Yeah. Get rid of the war. Yeah. Love love that love that message. The listener who's overwhelmed in their head, maybe a little stressed, maybe a little anxious, you know, trying to hit deadlines, maybe, you know, putting the weight of the crown, as we like to call it, on themselves, in in a negative way, because the weight's there. No matter what, there's there's there's there's a responsibility. But in a negative sense, it's it's weight.
And so what would you say to that person who's like that now? You I should let it go or to yourself. What practically can they do that you wish you would have done back then? I was literally talking to my friend who owns a jewelry company. On Saturday. And and, you know, the the pressures of the he's a genius artist. Right? He's genius. The business stuff isn't as easy for him. Right? Right.
But he's but he's but he's this he's this amazing artist And, you know, he's stressing a little bit about business and and there's anxiety there. And I literally said, well, well, one, If you just wanna do the art, right, you can go work for another company and you could be a designer. You could sell your designs to other people. There are ways to dust that. 2, go get another job, right, and make every night design your jewelry as a hobby. Right?
But if you're gonna be an entrepreneur, you gotta figure out ways to manage it. Right? Otherwise, it's gonna consume you. But the thing I was trying to call out for him is look, You are volunteering to be an entrepreneur. Right? I tell people, look. If you love baking cakes, you may not wanna start a cake baking business. K? Because it's gonna be about everything but baking cakes. That's right. K? It's not necessarily about your passion. It can be great to have that passion.
That can also, like, ruin like, a business can also ruin your passion, but it is a business. Right? You are there to make money to do those things if If you don't love it, if you can't figure out how to manage you, if you can't be tolerable to those around you who love you, Right? Make it a hobby. That's okay. Yeah. But if you're gonna be in business, like, like, be in business. Figure out how to get a business center. Yeah. Figure it out.
Well, hopefully, they're taking some of your advice here from today. They're they're trying to do Chaz, become a business owner, because you're right. It's it's not about the widget. It's never about the widget. That's why a guy like you and I can get together and completely you know, different industries altogether and have an incredible conversation around business, around teams, around ideas, because that's how that's the widget of business.
So I I've just so appreciated all the things that you've shared. Paul, how can the listener find you? So number 1, you got a couple of different, maybe, products that they can reach out or maybe that they might need. Please tell us about that. And then also, how can they just find you as an entrepreneur? Maybe they maybe they wanna connect with you about to Yeah. If you wanna connect on Africa, I love it. We're doing an amazing thing.
We are providing whiteboards to we're providing individual whiteboards Con Villages, and it is phenomenal. It's revolutionizing the way that they're elected they can teach because they didn't have resources for paper. Right? And so and so literally, like, they're teaching these children. They're dictating Chaz the children, the children can't give that feedback. Now with these individual whiteboards, the teachers can get real time feedback to understand where the kids are at.
Sure. And they could help the ones who need, you know, who need it. It is it is is blowing my mind. It's it's so simple. It's so simple, but so critical. And literally so we so I've I've done I've done All all of it. Right? Bathrooms, classrooms, food. Right? I've don't like, you name a donation. Right? I've I've I've been there, done that. The whiteboard 1, I've never gotten the kind of feedback that I've gotten on the whiteboard. It is, like, teachers will record messages for me crying.
Because they can teach different than they've ever been able to ever before. Yeah. And that's what they feel like they're a thing out of poverty is. LinkedIn is, you know, I think I'm Paul S Moss on LinkedIn. That's the easiest way to get a hold of me, and I welcome these conversations. I love these conversations. Yeah. Right? Because people have done it for me. Yep. So so I mean, if you have something you could teach me, if I'm getting it wrong, Please light me up. I don't I don't mind.
I don't have that ego that tells me. I'd I know that ego that I had for 15 years ago, I started the company. Once somebody told you know, worry about legal and and and accounting, and I blew them off. Right? I love learning, and I would love to hear it from you. And and so, yeah, LinkedIn is the easiest Wolfe, that's just incredible. The the whiteboards, I think that's so so cool. Even as entrepreneurs, a white a whiteboard can can change a lot of things.
You can get you can get some good ideas out. And as simple as that is, that can change a business. So I can see how the power of that could demo village. So listeners Wolfe put all that in the in the show notes. Of course, they can connect with you on on either of those topics, but, Paul, I just so appreciate you being here, man. Like, you just vulnerable, sharing from the heart, and also from experience.
Just wish you nothing but blessing, man, on on all the things you get your hand to in 2023 business and and all the other things too. I just really, really appreciate you man. Thanks so much. Thanks for doing this. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself. What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple business and multiple different industries and now interviewing literally over 2 or 300 other very successful 789 figure business owners is that It's tough to do it alone.
And so gathering the Kings literally exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
So if that relates and and resonates with you, and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gathering the king's dot com. I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.