On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. Anybody who's a contractor Chaz been in this industry, you know that The first feeling people have when they sit down with you is, like, fear, and they don't know why they're hiring you and who they should hire and what questions they should ask. And Right. There's no standardized process. And I think that we're one of the only industries left. That that that is the way it is. I don't like initial healing people have as this distrust.
So it's really important to me that we change that at scale. And that's one of the reasons why I switched to Alaire is because We can affect Wolfe lot more lives with a 100 offices and 200 offices, writing offices out Residential construction companies and contractors have earned the reputation of not necessarily being the most trustworthy and charging too much and change orders and schedule and all the things. So right. It's uphill battle, but we're passionate about that.
You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe, featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars from business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be. We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the reel of the reel, on what it takes to build a successful business today. We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along and how you too can get there.
Through this dialogue, you will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and keys like today's guest. Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, gathering the Kings podcast. See, I've got Stacy Eckman here on the King stage. My brother, Stacy. How you doing? I'm doing well. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Absolutely, man. Know, we were just talking off air.
It's Monday morning, fresh, early, but then but then I realized that you were Pacific time. Holy. Molly, it is really fresh, early Monday, your time. Thank you for being here, dude. So I appreciate that. Well, thank you. It's exciting. I like it. This time, it's it's best because the office is quiet, so it's a good time to recorded. Right. That's right. There's there's something in that.
Maybe if the listeners pay attention, if they don't already have a early morning routine, they might pick up a little extra nugget there from you. But Stacy, tell us what kind of business Chaz you got, brother? Well, we've got a few. My main business I started 10 years ago was Eckman Construction Company. Love it. And with that company is currently just announced we're going through a transition, becoming a layer homes Kirkland. And the layer is a franchise.
It's the biggest custom home and large scale remodel company in the world. Wow. And we're office number 95 in North America. So we we own the franchise there, and that transition is ongoing. It's challenging. Exciting. A lot of work. A lot of early mornings. Yeah. And then I have another business that we Chaz I acquired in 2021. It's a fencing company. So that's Concier Events, and we do residential and commercial cedar Chaz link, vinyl, iron fences, and gates. That's that's a great business.
I was excited to get that. And then I do some real estate investing and development as well. Yeah. Nice. Get your hands full, plates full, but here you are rocking and rolling on a podcast. So there's gotta be a reason why you're doing all that. That's my first question to every guest. Not only why are you doing it, but at this level, you've obviously been successful for a period of time. You haven't slowed down. You haven't sailed off into the sunset yet. Why?
What's the bigger what's the bigger picture for you? My dad was in construction as well. He owned a small construction company. And I really have a passion about changing the way people feel about residential construction companies. We build custom homes, so we build 4 clients. We'd all I do a couple of spec houses a year, but that's not my main business.
Anybody who's a contractor Chaz been in this industry You know Chaz the first feeling people have when they sit down with you is, like, fear, and they don't know why they're hiring you and who they should hire and what questions they should ask. And Right. There's no standardized process. And I think that we're one of the only industries left that that that is the way it is. You know, you go buy a car. You can go to any Toyota dealership, and you know that You're gonna test drive it.
You're gonna go sit with the finance guy. You're not gonna send the contract to your attorney to mark up and go back and forth. It's You know what to expect? Yeah. I I don't like that feeling of, like, the initial feeling people have is this distrust. So it's really important to me that we change that at scale. And that's one of the reasons why I switched to Alaire is because we can affect, you know, a whole lot more lives with a 100 offices and 200 offices, writing offices as it grows.
And we can really change what a whole community and and population feels when they are thinking about just social companies. Now Residential construction companies and contractors have earned the reputation of not necessarily being the most trustworthy and charging too much and change orders and schedule and all the things. So, right, it's uphill battle, but we're passionate about that. Yeah. That's my, like, reason for equity construction is I wanted because I saw how it affected my dad.
He's the most honest human being on earth and people still felt that way. Right? So that's kinda what made me wanna do. Yeah. But I think that like, life over overarching everything is is why I keep going is I worry, I'm really afraid of regretting at the end, right, when I get to the end, like, yeah, looking back and saying, man, I just wish I would've just went a little harder or took that risk or done that thing.
So Right. Is my I guess, driver is I do not want to get there and said, man, I just needed one more day. I almost made it. Oh, almost got what I thought I wanted. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a there's a real fear there for achievers, and and I think that that that feeling, even if the listener also has that feeling, It might stem from something different. You know, it could stem from your upbringing.
It could stem from, you know, it could from a lot of different things, actually, but it is interesting how that is a driver. Like, a major driver, you know. Do you feel and this is more so for the listener. I'm pressing into this a little bit. Do you feel when you wake up Chaz that that fear that we're talking about, I don't get the feeling that the, you know, the minutes that we've been talking here, even before we hit the recording button.
I didn't I don't get the feeling that you're a fearful guy. That you're operating out of fear. But what you just described was that, like, oh, I don't wanna get to the end. So I'm I'm so I'm X Y Z ing now, which is which is, you know, like, it's a delayed gratification. It's a little bit of fear. You know, like, we could you can kinda paint that however you choose, but I don't get the feeling that you're a fear guy.
So How do you how do you wake up with that feeling of, like, oh, I don't wanna miss out. So I'm gonna press in. What does that look like, or what does that feel like on the inside of you it just feels like ambition and and excitement about the next thing and and where we're going and and how I'm developing The processes and and my team and all of the people around me helping them improve. I think that I definitely don't operate out of fear in the business sense.
You know, I take a lot of what I'd hope are good risks. You know, some of them work out, some of them don't, but I, you know, I just keep it pushing. And That's right. I think the fear is that afraid of being too afraid to do the thing. So I just do the next thing. You know, I that is my life motto or or what I lived by is just do the next thing because these things that I wanna do are enormous. You know?
But and and if I just didn't it's like the simplest, and I learned that I was going through a really hard time in my life. And it was literally, like, just, like, the next minute and the next hour. And, okay, now it's time to brush your teeth and now it's time to go to bed and and and and it the simplest of things. And so I'd break it down just like that. Like, this morning, it was like, okay. The next thing is I gotta do this podcast.
I don't love talking on on camera and and I love all this, but the next thing is okay. I gotta prep a little bit. I gotta think about it. I gotta watch a couple. I gotta, yeah, I gotta figure it out. So that was the next thing. And so and then all of a sudden, I'm here. You know? And we'll get through this, and the next thing will be know, my my first meeting with one of my leadership. Yeah. Yeah. What I'm what I'm hearing from you is that, of course, it's not fear.
I'm glad that we kinda the distinction there because I think the listener could have, you know, maybe grabbed on to that because you're right. It's not fear. What I'm hearing from you is that it's permission permission to go for it. Like, I don't wanna get to the end and regret. So it's not fear today. It's actually permission. It's like, no. Like, go for it. Take to the risk. Take the Chaz. Get up. Just do the next thing. Don't worry about, you know, kinda like the rest a little bit.
Don't be regretful. Just like, go for Is that is that what I'm am I hearing the right thing? Yeah. It's yeah. It might have been the wrong word. It's like, I am not going to get to the end and regret it. You know? That's that's it. Is it? I'm just not that's not gonna, you know, that's unacceptable. So I'm just gonna keep going. You know? I I hope the listener's paying close attention, dude.
We could end this podcast freaking right now, and that sentence that you just said, it, like, I hope they they if if I'm like a tonality, you know, voice, like, person. And if you go back and listen to Stacy's inflection, his conviction in what he just said. I just got chills. Like, he there's no chance he's getting to the end and it not being exactly how he wants period. And that is that is like a you wanna call it deafness of purpose. My goodness. Alright, dude. We gotta keep rolling.
Tell me Tell me how you got into construction. Obviously, it was your dad. Tell me a little bit of the backdrop, like beforehand, you know, all the fun stuff. Well, I didn't really wanna do construction necessarily Chaz the story goes. Yes. But how I you know, I I learned the trade with dad a little bit. It worked with dad, so I knew how to do it. And yeah. Yeah. You know, I was broke. That was at at no no dollars. So I could do that and make some money.
And and Yeah. I was doing it just kinda on the side and and on the weekends and kinda accidentally got forced into getting a business license because I was operating out of business rules here in Washington State, and and Yeah. Got opportunity to do that. And so I did that, and then Nexina was here. I think that, you know, entrepreneurship in general for me, I probably always had it a little bit. You know, I was always you know, whether it was baseball cards or or bicycles or whatever it was.
But I think that where it really kicked in for me that I was Again, I was in the I was I Chaz no no money, and I was living at a friend's house and and had no way to pay them anything. And he and I decided one night that we were gonna live on Craigslist and find free couches Yeah. We were gonna take them to the car wash, and we were gonna clean them, shampoo pump, and then we're gonna put them back on Craig's list in the morning and and make some money. The first couch went amazing.
Like, we got it for free, and it was actually a nice couch, and we got 80 bucks for it or something. And it was like, well, we have made it. I had a pickup truck, and we just kept doing it. We ended up getting a storage unit, and we them lined up in their stacked up. We would get them, like, on the 28th to 30th because people were moving out of their apartments. They couldn't sell them. They had to get rid of them. They would sell them. That's right. 1 through 5 the next month.
And that got me, like, excited about, you know, buying and selling things and and you know, thinking about efficiencies and how we do that. And can we sell the thing before we unload it? Can it still be in the back of the truck after we drive? You know, it's We'll sell it for 60 bucks if we don't have to unload it. If we unload it, then we gotta sell it for 80. You know? So yeah. It got me thinking about that. Love it.
And then I got into got into business, you know, down the road, you know, years later or whatever. I end up getting into business and I really enjoyed the business side of construction. I didn't think that, you know, like I said, dad's business was a small company. It was him and one guy usually. Right. And so I'd I did and I'm from a small town. I'm from Yacama, wire, and Chaz she's washing it is outside of Yakima, and I just didn't see it as a a business. You know?
I just always thought it was a man. I'm gonna shut up just when you're here in my whole life. You know? Right? Yeah. Exactly. I once I got into business and I started meeting some other contractors and learned what like Microsoft Excel was and oh, Wolfe. What an estimate is. You know? I was pretty pretty rudimentary 10 years ago when I started. And I got excited about all of that and then developing myself and my team and all that stuff. Yeah. How are you? Yeah. A fairly natural progression.
I I what I loved about that just a few minutes there is that it wasn't just this, like, paved out path. Even though, yes, your dad was in the trade, it wasn't necessarily like you had this, like, Hey. Here's exactly how to do it. You still had to kinda, like, stumble upon those things.
And, actually, the last thing that you just said there, which is very similar to my story, which, you know, like, you just get excited about learning and and, like, oh, if we did it like this, then maybe we could do it like this. And then, oh, Excel. That's just this Let me let me let me tinker with this for a second and then, oh, but it can do this, and it can do this. And and if I yeah.
It's like just the excitement of that propelled you to the next thing, which actually goes back to what you just said about the why, it's like just next thing. Just the next thing. Just the next thing. Right? Yep. Exactly.
I think and then that, you know, at some point, I started to realize that It's more efficient for me to, you know, I got to a point with Microsoft Excel that I You know, it's I can get my way around the spreadsheet and I can build a spreadsheet and all that, but, well, it's best for me to hire somebody who is really good at that, you know, and then I can go and learn almost enough of of something different and and just keep growing those those that team behind. Yeah. I love it.
Okay. Let's talk about, I mean, you've got you've got a decade plus of of a business ownership here, so I wanna dig deep here. What is a good decision that you've made even early on, potentially, where you can look back and you go, I would do this over and over and over again. What is it? Couple of things. K. First, most importantly, I picked the right wife. Uh-huh. Yes. She has been amazing. She lets me word. She knows that I'm passionate. She's passionate as well.
She believes in me it's really important. I think it's very important. And but then, you know, on the business side, when I realized that the goal was to hire people that were smarter than me that were better at that thing than me, you know, and I Remember, I absolutely could not afford to hire my first production manager. I had a couple project managers. I had I had, obviously, carpenters and things like yeah. But, I mean, things were, like, not going really well.
Profitability was not there, and It's just just like, oh my gosh. I typed it. And I couldn't afford it. I I had a mentor who was telling me that you need a production manager. You need somebody who understands the light finances of a project. You understand the finances of a business, but project by project and task by task. And somebody that can deal with that while you sell and run the business and mhmm. Tim, I can't. I where's he gonna come from? I don't I'm not paying myself.
Like, I he said, Yeah. Well, you're never gonna. And so I just did it. And and and I hired a guy. I'd I'd moved him here from He was down in Oregon. I moved him up here, and it was amazing. It did he was perfect for the time we were in. It was one way we're like, I think we were at, like, 3,000,000 a year at that time. And then, you know, he got us to 8 really get up to about 6, but then it was a little much for him. You know?
And so then we've he moved on to another $3,000,000 company where he's really happy and And, you know, and then I've then I brought in VP of Operations and an estimator and and, you know, a real leadership team now that has has got us to where we are today, but making that decision to even when you don't feel like you I couldn't see the the end of the I couldn't see the light, you know, but just trusting that somebody that I was asking for advice knew the right answer and and to just do it.
And this I mean, it was like, what what's the worst I'm I'm not gonna make it without them. So you know, write it out. So I think once I Like, the actual answer there is that I would hire the right position over and over and over again, even if it is gonna cut into my salary or or or profitability for a while because the Long game is is there. We develop a company instead of a job. You know, I had a I had a job that I was I was building for myself. Yeah. Wolfe got I got several questions here.
I love this answer. I've I've gone deep on this topic. In fact, in one of my companies, I just made this same decision, like, last week. I'm going, okay. P and L says we shouldn't means we should. It's time. Okay. So inside of that, the listener potentially might be thinking, alright. Well, you said you didn't have the money, but you did it anyway. Chaz doesn't make sense. Where'd you get the money, Stacy? I mean, we had We had flow. Right?
We had well, not necessarily positive flow, but there was money. Right? There there was money. And I don't recommend being in that position because that's how contractors have earned the the, you know, the reputation of being overbilled and and and but I was already there. So what I did is Chaz I said, okay. I'm gonna hire this person. And, I couldn't train them because I didn't know the position. I couldn't hire for them, so I had somebody help me hire. And then I said, okay.
Once I do that, I'm just gonna get out of his way entirely. And I'm gonna trust that he knows what he's doing, and position, and then I have to go sell. We've got to grow. And we're I've got to sell a bunch of jobs and get the company financially and a spower. We can sustain his salary for Yeah. At least a few months until it starts to work. Right. It worked out. Yeah. I was not operating in fear. I was done. Yeah. Exactly. It's the opposite of that. You were like, here we go. I'm jumping.
You know? I really hope the listener's paying attention because you gave super clear, like, this is how you can go do it, even if you don't have it, which for the brain that's like, I don't understand. 1+1 is 2. It's like, no. Not always. And and sometimes you just gotta get in and kinda figure it out. What I also heard you underneath you say is that Okay. Well, negative positive flow. There is flow.
Well, what that means really is that when you hire somebody like that, you're not making a an 80 or a $120,000 decision. You're making a $6000 a month decision. Exactly. And okay. So when you break it down like that, you're like, okay. Well, worst case scenario, I hire this guy who's supposed to be great. I'm helping this other guy's helping me hire him. He's supposed to be great. I'm gonna get out of him his way.
I'm gonna give him 60 days, 90 days, whatever the scenario So we're talking about a $18,000 decision. Well, I gotta go sell one more house. I can do that. So now you start breaking down worst case scenario. Night? Okay. Now I'm practical. Okay. I can make this decision. That's how I actually jump off the ledge and make that decision. The re the the other part of it is, like, you just gotta do it.
But if you can if you can if you can do the math a little differently, then sometimes it works out a little bit better. The the freedom that you had in that moment to then go sell or maybe the pressure. Talk about that for a second. Yeah. I never Well, rarely. It never is a big word, but I rarely, like, feel the pressure to sell. I'm not much of sales with. It just sit with people and explain to them how I wanna change the way they feel about it. But, you know, I'm just selling an experience.
That's right. Explaining an experience. And it in that moment, it gave me the confidence Chaz if I sold it, we were going to execute. You know, I could pass it down and I didn't need to follow it all the way all the processes, and I didn't need to hold the client's hand. I could hand it off once I got it, quote, unquote, sold. And that gave me the the, well, the confidence in that moment when I was talking to the client.
I mean, that comes across whether you're pretend like you're confident before Right. And talk somebody into believing you're confident about your process or or Right. You know, when it's real, people can feel that. You know? You know, you just have a different demeanor. And so was selling got, like, a really efficient at that and improved the data, and we were better at estimating because I could actually I wasn't doing all the estimating as Wolfe. And and Right. So it was it was just better.
And then then I could start picking the jobs because I didn't need for the longest time. It was like, I don't to sell the shovel. I don't care if it's a a a ditch that needs to. We gotta sell it because we need the flow. I got a that's 6000 bucks. I need it to pay production manager, you know. That's right. So but once we got to where we were profitable on the jobs, I was able to say, okay. Well, we don't actually dig ditches, you know, where we build houses. So Right.
It it put me in a better spot to see. There's so many, like, building blocks here that you just identified. So I I am not I appreciate just sharing that, but it's it is true. When you as long as, I think the mindset of the owner in that moment is to then go do the next thing in the business Chaz opposed to you know, sipping my tie somewhere. That that's not gonna help with the flow. Right?
So hire the guy that you need or the gal and get out of their way And go sell some other projects and or the next level of your business. Go go take it to the next elevation because the only way that number 1, you're gonna pay for the thing that you just did. Number 2, that is growth. It it's the desire for the next thing. In fact, actually, this is kinda cool. I heard this weekend. This guy I was watching, he's talking about desire and the fact that it's not, like, be content.
You can be satisfied, like, thankful for where you're at, but to have a desire for more, the want of more, which is where you were in that place, you're like, okay, if I stay at 3,000,000, okay. It's gonna always be like it is, which isn't necessarily great. It's it's alright, but it's not great. I want more.
Okay. So in order to get more, you had to, like, creatively put your mind into a situation where you thought of a different solution, which was hire somebody better than you and then be able to, like, force yourself into, like, okay. I gotta go get to the next level. So anything else you wanna add there before we move on?
Nope. I think that that that describes it really well Chaz I just I'm always wanting the next thing, the the more, and it's not always more money, but the better company and the better processes. And and I think that The only way to do that for me that I've learned is the only way I'm able to do that is I build the company before the sales. Right? Like, it it it well, simultaneously, but I'm always over delivering the experience, it sounds like.
Yeah. Exact I treat the the $2,000,000 client, like, the $8,000,000 client Man, they get the same service level because when my team wanted to when we get the $8,000,000 client and the $12,000,000 client, I needed them to have already gone through that process even though it was only on a smaller project. You know? So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It it would just keep building. Yeah. In inside of Valin the King's mastermind, we call it grateful, but not done.
This position that you were just talking about of, like, thankful for the $2,000,000 guy. We don't wanna always necessarily serve just the $2,000,000 guy or the $200,000 project, whatever the scenario. I want more. I want more. And it's okay. It's okay to want more. It's okay to wanna go to the next level.
Like you said, I love you gave a a good a good picture of a better team, a better operation, a better company, a better brand, it doesn't always necessarily have to equate to more money, although it's oftentimes the measuring stick. Yeah. Alright. Well, Stacy, tell us about a bad decision. You did something that caught you some bruises, and we wanna stay far away. What is it? Chaz, for me, is a tough one. I I I have made a lot of bad decisions, but I make them quick and and then I give it quick.
So Good. I don't any that I would necessarily do different. I think that that same exact time Yeah. When I hired the production manager Yeah. I didn't understand my numbers and up until that point. Sure. I thought that there was always there was always money in the bank. You know, there was always money. But when I realized how much of that money was client's money that we had not produced on yet, opposed to what was our money and and help with none of it was our money.
And we didn't have all the clients' money at that moment. Chaz was the moment that Tim told me you need a production manager. So I was not only said I not afford it. I was, like, in debt to these projects already. Yeah. And that feeling, we won't ever be in that spot again because that was it I was I was I felt fear in that because my goal was to to do it diff to be different than what you hear about companies going out of business and leaving projects half done with Right?
Lance money and all that. My my my was the I was I was accelerating how people feel about Yeah. For construction companies. And so Yeah. I I won't get to a spot where I don't understand my numbers. I at the I needed to get things the ship righted. I needed to kinda continue down that path for a little while. I needed to sell like Chaz, and I needed to hire somebody that I couldn't afford, but that were. And then once we got to back to even we we won't do that again.
We had a amazing finance team here that that takes care of all of that and keeps us, you know, right side up. I mean, I just I'd like I could not sleep at night. I was so uncomfortable with that. Not because, like, I didn't have anything for him, but they, you know, like, I wasn't like, woah. At that point, I I wasn't married yet, you know, I it was not like and they weren't telling me to get I also didn't have a house at the time.
So Chaz that they could have the truck loan, you know, like, come and get it. You know? Right. But just what I was how I was gonna let those people down and let my dad down and my family. And I'd been telling everybody how I'm gonna change the way people feel about residential construction companies said I was gonna be on the front page paper, the guy that, you know, was just like everybody else. So yeah. I won't get in that spot again. That's for sure. What do you know now?
Or what in that moment did you need to learn? Because when you say numbers, okay. Fine. So you're you're you're cost analysis, you're in analyzing your c your costs, your your project, the flow, the timeline. There's lots of different nuances that go into either project management, or even if we're talking about, you know, a year in PL.
P and l. What were some specifics that you didn't know before, but that you knew maybe through the p m, or once you kinda started to, like, this Chaz your finance team, like, for sure, for sure, does now Chaz you'll never get in that spot again. What are some of those practicals? We do our financial tracking sheets per project. At the end of every month, the project managers own that process, which in which includes a cost to complete. So at the time, now we're 100% cost plus. Right?
So so we're not fixed price. But at the time, we were mostly fixed price. Okay. And so those fixed price projects, it's, you can easily get yourself in a bad spot if you've got slippage that you're not catching. You're not realizing that that that that The the $100,000 that you think you've produced $60,000 worth, so 40 of it is technically yours.
That would be an amazing project with 80 of it, you know, and 2020 of it is technically years, but then you realized that you still got $8000 left on the project to complete or left on Chaz. You had some slippage when it was only supposed to cost 80. Now it's gonna cost 88. And and you don't if well, you I just wasn't keeping score. Right? If you're not keeping score, you're losing. And That's right. Chaz WIP report worked with progress report and all Chaz.
And then actually doing an over under billing entry every month so that You know, Jay, we did $1,000,000 in a month is what money came in, but we only produced $600,000 worth. We reverse Chaz, you know, so we operate on a it's a cruel basis, but it's it's a percentage of complete basis. So we actually take that revenue, that 400 that is in ours, we do a journal entry and and pull that out of our revenue from that. Right. It kicked to the next point. And that keeps us keeps a clean diligent.
You know, we can I can open it up and look at it? So Yeah. There's Chaz. And then This overall slippage of a with with, you know, I learned about that. It it's yeah. Yeah. You know, when they're just selling and doing all the estimating and you're just trying to get to the next the next project and you know you need cash and all that. Right?
It's eye opening when you realize how much money gets lost in time, days Chaz you go over a schedule, and then you know, just spending a little bit more and not track and change orders in that conversation. So Yeah. You know, it it's it's it's an interesting in my retail franchises, it's the same thing.
I remember being early on and thinking that, you know, I had a little bit of money and Chaz you get to the end of the month and you know, I've got a $9000 tax bill, sales tax that I collected, that I was just passing through. And it was like, Dang. That was not even my money, but it was in there giving me false hope the whole month. And it's the same same exact thing that you're talking about.
And so whether it's sales tax or whether it's, you know, the flow of someone else's money, I mean, whatever that scenario is, it gives us this, like, fog where we can't make good decisions is what you're saying. The decisions that you need to really be able to determine how to get to the next level. So, like what you said, being able to decide What projects to do?
You there's no way for you to determine whether you like this project or you don't like this project because you didn't know you just were saying yes, Once you start doing the math, you're like, that was a lot of work for not we're not gonna do that anymore. Like, it becomes, like, super obvious. Yes. Yes. It it did once you can start making decisions based on data Yeah. It it's a game changer.
When you're making decisions 100% based on feelings, or or or, yeah, feelings and emotions and just wants, like, what you think you want, you know, like, it it it's impossible to make a good decision, well, regularly. You know, sometimes you sometimes you nail it, you know, you're like, yeah. That worked, but you don't know why it worked. So you don't know what part of that project you should do again? Or Yeah. You know, that's what the every little, like, everything in life. You know?
If I buy a car, If you don't go in there with some data about what you want and what you should get and what it should cost and all those things Yep. You leave there and you're like, what are? What what what am I driving? You know, I should've got that car. I like that car lot. You know? And all of a sudden, you start looking into it, and you made a bad decision. So getting some data before making those decisions is is important.
Yeah. I wanna give out the the listener just one last piece of encouragement because you might be in a business that maybe small right now and you're listening to Stacy talk about, you know, having this data and just then, you know, making quality decisions, it doesn't happen overnight. And it's okay that it doesn't happen overnight. It's gonna be a progression of you making a decision going, okay, I'm going to know my number.
Whether that you're in construction or in marketing, it doesn't really matter. Per client or even per month or 4 quarter. However, you're, like, breaking that down. You gotta know the inflow and the outflow so that you can make decisions, and that's gonna it's gonna Over the course of the next 30, 60, 90 days, a 120 days, like, really work into this. You also haven't said this, but you said it. Underneath all of that, This guy named Tim was giving you advice.
I'm gonna guess that he was your business coach, which was an investment that you made in a time where you said you weren't even paying yourself very wet much, like haven't even talked about that decision. So if you're listening right now, be encouraged Chaz, literally, Stacy was paying someone else to have him, like, take in good advice. And then also it took time to implement this. So if you wanna get to Stacy's level, it's okay. You may not be there today, but you'll be there one day.
Anything you just wanna add there before we move on? Just that that, you know, you say 30, 60, 90 days, you will start noticing once you start looking at data or, like, just asking to see some data or figure out how to even develop the data. It gets better quickly in that 60 nineties, but This all started happening 7 years ago where I made this decision to do this.
And, like, every single week, I meet with the finance team, and we think about how our data could be better, what we could look at differently, or what we're messing up You know? Oh, man. That that WIP report. Chaz that's not quite right. You know? So it's it's it's a never ending picking of data. You know? Yeah. You gotta get gotta go to the next level. If the data is what got you here, data in a different way is probably what's gonna get you to the next level. Yes. Alright.
Well, let's go to the speed round here. We talked about your decisions and even just a little bit of your process there knowing the data, I think, that that's just super applicable. What What is the thing that you're tracking? The data point, if you Wolfe, if you could only pick 1. What is that? If I had to pick 1, it'd be sales.
K. It's a tough one because I feel like the right thing to say is client satisfaction, or the right thing to say is employee satisfaction, or the right thing to say is gross prop. But none of that exists if you're not if you're not closing deals. Right? So you you gotta start with sales. Yeah. It it's so interesting to, obviously, I get answers of all of those and to be able to see the the the math, basically.
So for you, a sales number, and then you can go, you know, all the way back down to the the rest. And and that's in essence how we need to run our business. It's not that we don't have access to any other KPIs. We need to be able to quick glance, make a decision, and move, pivot, like you said, you haven't had these detrimental decisions because you pivoted quickly.
And a lot of times, that's being able to see things and watch trends and make decisions, and you don't know that unless you know what KPI to watch. So for you at sales, I love that. Anything else you wanna add there? Nope. What book? What book or resource would you recommend for a business owner trying to grow? Well, I'm trying to grow. I really like never split the difference. But I also one that, like, really made a big difference in, like, how I ran the business was leaders eat last.
I'm Simon Senate. Yeah. That's a great place as well. Literally changed how I looked at my job. You know? Why? Because I I realized that I hit my job, quote unquote, had shifted from owner of destruction company to be a leader. And I have always kind of been a natural Leader people follow me for a certain amount of time, you know, until they realize that I'm just kinda, like, goal you know, I I don't know. I tell where people at.
I'm go go go go go, you know, but I realized that what I needed to really start doing was develop leaders instead of just have this people following. And that that that book, again, that that I read it at a time of my life where I was really struggling with leadership team here, and they were we weren't great leaders. I read a couple of chapters Could I just opened it up? There's a long story. We could do a whole lot of podcast about what has actually developed from that book in my life.
Wow. But it it I opened it up and and a whole bunch of kinda serendipitous things happened right around it all at the same time. And I was like, which is, ultimately, it's I think it's probably why I'm why I'm doing the all air because more Yeah. Sara did but he happened just each other. And I I tend to, like, not the big, like, you know, fruit through a guy, but Now when the when someone smacks you in the face a few times, you know, I should probably spread the attention. You know?
I I think that's so honest, though, Stacy. I mean, I, you know, the kumbaya, the fufu, the get together, the the the rah rah. Look. No. I don't think any of us, you know, regular guys doing extraordinary things like we talked about before the recording. I don't think any of us, like, necessarily patch that on ourselves that we like that stuff, but it's still meaningful. And when you pay attention to the little things, you're like, okay. But I love what you says.
You opened up a book about leadership, and then other things started happening at that time. It's not that those things maybe weren't happening. Possibly they were. Your mind opened when you read the book. You started paying attention. You started seeing the things that were happening around you, potential opportunities with a rebrand, Chaz aligned with what it is that you actually were saying that you wanted. Yep. That's exactly right.
I don't remember what they call that, but it's like when you think, oh, I wanna I really like yellow varieties. All of a sudden, you see them everywhere. You know? Yeah. Yeah. At greater or lesser desire when you can clearly state what it is that you want, or in this case, you read a book that's like, well, like, yes. I've I'm I haven't thought about it, but like that before. And your and and I your mind's open to the possibilities.
I'm sure you were just, like, tinkering with solutions for days or even weeks. And that's where you're buying. Just you're constantly looking to fill the gaps with that with that equation. What's the solution? How do we solve the problem? And you don't get yourself in that situation if you're not constantly, like, agitating the situation or your brain, you know, like reading a book on leadership. Oh, I'm already a good leader. Probably why you're not growing as a leader, you know. Exactly.
Okay. What what do you think about intentionally networking or master mining with other entrepreneurs? I believe that's great. It's it's good. I think that my business. A lot of the people that I sell to or or that aren't a client base of mine are other business owners and entrepreneurs. And so I do that every single Wednesday at 5 o'clock. There's a restaurant right here in town that that We have a standing reservation for 2.
And, Alyssa, my assistant, she finds a new architect or a builder or anybody that might want to sit down and dinner for for cocktails, and we do that. And I get so much out of it. I've been a part of a few different construction based groups. Yeah. You know, I spent time and money and and to go all over the country to meet with these people and and learn about each other's businesses and things like that. And now with Alaire, It's more of Chaz, you know, every single Wednesday as well.
We have a partner call. It's a 140 of us on a call. And, you know, they always teach us some somebody speaks and teaches us something and everybody to shout outs. We talk about, you know, good things that have happened and bad things that have happened, and I think that it's it's valuable. And the the but the real value there is you end up getting some connections with, you know, more personal connections with other businesses that are kinda like yours and within that 140.
And you start talking regularly and you start asking each other questions and and it it what I think it the value of it for me especially when it's within industry and within, like, the same company, this Alaire deal, is that our innovation or the way we learn and and change things within our companies with I don't have it doesn't have to all be my idea anymore. I don't have to run into a wall and say, oops. We better go right instead of left there. Which is how I would train my staff.
It's how I developed everything. It's okay. We're gonna go, go, go, and then we're gonna hit some. And we're gonna, okay, back it up and go around that Wolfe. And go, go, go tell now it's like, hey, man. He did this before. What did you hit? What what where should I go right? You know? And so it it really helps us accelerate Chaz. Yeah. That flywheel of of who we are and and where we're going. You know, I I think it's it's extremely valuable.
Yeah. There's what I heard you say, there's there's some humility in there. You're you're coming to the table with an already extremely successful business. And, but yet, you're still willing to reach out to the other guy. He's in the same business you are, or maybe if he wasn't, he's an architect. He's coming to have a dinner with you or cocktails. I just both of those examples are just super practical ways.
I think Chaz, have grown you and anybody listening can do both of those, like, super easily. It your 5 o'clock standing, a reservation is right here for me. Like, I get to meet 1, 2, 3, sometimes 4, 5 entrepreneurs all across the country right here across Zoom. And like I was telling you before we hit the recording, but sometimes that turns into a deal. Sometimes Chaz turns into maybe a mastermind client, maybe maybe a a friend that needs to know a friend.
Maybe it's a 2 guests that need to know each other. I don't know. But here it is. Standing it's a standing reservation. And so you just just shake hands, get to know people. I love that. I got a question for you about about family. Every entrepreneur, we've talked about, you know, good decisions, bad decisions, We've talked about the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, the wins, the money, the the lack thereof, the times of press, all of it. Right?
And what I have found is that 100% of the time, that every entrepreneur I talk to on this stage, as well as many others, is that there's this obsession in the business. Right? Like, that's how you become successful. You're dialed and you're obsessed. Okay. We agree there, but it's also the way that we become successful in our family or as dads or right as parents.
And so my question is, how have you done both at the same time because I don't believe that it's either or or this thing called balance. I think that we have to go hard on all of it. So how have you done that? Well, I, of course, I'm sure I could do better as a dad and and as a husband and and all of that just because there is a lot of work You know, we all could. Everybody could could do better. But I just I mean, I just keep going. You know, I do, worked Well, I get up really early.
I get up at 3. I I start my day at 3 so that I can be offered a reasonable time. I can have dinner with the family. I can I can go all over and and watch watch his baseball watch case and baseball games and try to participate as much as I can and all of that? Yeah. Don't have time for that right now, but, you know, I can coach him on a personal level, one on 1. That's right. I I think that You know, the other way to do that is is you just left. You just make a commitment.
It has to be a priority, and sometimes that's Sometimes I'm really good at that. And, you know, if I'm being totally honest, sometimes I'm not. And that's one of the reasons why Danica and my wife was such a great choice is Not only does she let me do all of that or all the stuff I wanna do and and need to do. She also reminds me when I'm not doing the other stuff Chaz because she knows that I wanna be a good dad, and she knows that I wanna be a good husband.
She knows I wanna be a good son and a good brother. So she supports it even when it's like calling me out and saying, yes. Hey, buddy. You said you wanted to do this. And now you're not doing it. And, oh, you're right. And if there's one thing about me, like, she knows that on when I die on my gravestone, it's gonna say something to the effect of here lies Stacy If he said he was gonna do it, he did it. So is super important to me. So she knows that's important, and she she holds me to that.
And I think that Anything we want, especially people that are driven like you and and people that are listening to this show. If they want, to be a good family, Matt, they will be. Yeah. Yeah. People do what they wanna do. I I love what you said there about your Wolfe, almost being, like, the ultimate you know, mastermind member, you know, because that's what that's what accountability is.
That's what that's what getting together on a podcast like this or on your 5 o'clock deals or just joining a group or whatever is that you can put out your plans, and I don't necessarily need someone else to hold my hand, but it's just in those important moments where it might be any little encouragement or need a little tough love and go, hey, bud. You said this, but you're not doing this. That can work in the business. Guy to guy, and we're like, oh, yeah. I'm all about it.
But then as soon as soon as the wife does it. It kinda we we call it nagging, right, or we call it whatever. It's like, no. No. No. Like, she's she's just saying what you said. She's just reminding you of it. And we've also learned that a good way to do that is is we write them down, right, at the 1st the year. Typically at the 1st the year, and we do a check-in couple of years ago.
I guess it wasn't this last New Year's, but the year before I said, hey, We are gonna go out on 1 day night every single week no matter what, and we're gonna meet for lunch one day every single week no matter what. And You know, that's all Chaz that's not easy. Commitment. That's the commitment. You know, it's not easy. It's okay. Thursday night's Wolfe. Hold on a minute. We've got this thing. No. That's not what we said. And first, we we want some out of it.
You know, we'd get 3 out of 4 in a month or Alright. Would you all wait a row? And then, well, she's got nothing to think about. But then now, you know, we're a year and 4 months in, and, I mean, we don't miss it. You know? And it's really important we we talk about what we wanna do as a family, you know, how we wanna be seen to the world or, like, how we wanna affect the world as as a couple and as parents and and those type of things. So yeah. I think it's really, really important.
Also, though, have a little bit different view of, like, What it is for me to be a successful, like, family man. That's like, I think the most success for the most important thing is that I leave something lives longer than me. And I I I We'll sacrifice some family happiness for that because as a family, we're gonna do something bigger than just us.
You know, and and I'm gonna leave that charge and everybody says I it's yet to be seen, but, you know, you read all the stuff about nurses, They tell you what people say at the last. Nobody ever says they wish they would've worked more or they wish they would've done this. They all would've spent more time with family and I don't I don't think that'll be me. I think that what I will say and what what what I will say is is It did it either here. I I'm gonna die tomorrow and Right.
There's still something behind in my son. Gets to either continue that or drive by it every day on his way to work where he wherever he wants to work and tell his wife and his kids that, yeah, you know, Grandpa, he he started that and he did that, or, you know, the state can can can support, you know, colleges and things like that.
And and I just believe that if if all you are Oh, I mean, it sounds like I don't value it, but if if if you're just a really good dad and a really good husband, then you create something that maybe you're rich, you know, and and things are good while you're here. But, like, how many generations re remember you?
You know, like, like, Obviously, I'm not gonna turn into Bill Gates, but his name will never be forgotten because his name's on everything, and he really changed a whole bunch of the way things are for better or worse, whether you like it or not. He doesn't ever die because it's people will say his name for ever. And I think that, you know, best case scenario for a lot of men is that they're grandkids. Glad you talk about them.
Maybe great grandkids talk about it a little bit, but then it's sober. They're they're nobody goes and visits their grave. Nobody says another guy changed my life. You know? So Yeah. But and I think that it's just as important to me. And then it's good that I have my wife to balance out and keep me honest with the other stuff, though. Yeah. Well, you're right because she she's in the day in the the the day day.
She she's the one that needs attention and affection today Chaz well as the kids, obviously. But what I heard you say, which is just so right up my alley, because I I I although I've maybe expressed it differently in different language, the family that you're talking about is just a couple of generations down the road Chaz you're also claiming responsibility for. And so that you got big shoulders. You're like, hey. I'm gonna take care of my kids.
Don't worry about Chaz. But I'm gonna I'm gonna sacrifice a little bit of that so that my kids and their kids and their kids and maybe even their kids have something to build. And then even and it just Chaz, like, a personal thing to add in here, when I started recognizing that it wasn't just about the money. Like you said, it wasn't just about leaving them money or something.
It was how can I spend time with them, building with them, whether it be in the business or in their mindset so that Whether my kids or my grandkids or my great grandkids, when I'm gone, have the thing that really matters the most is how you think and what you do with it, you Chaz have the asset, the business, the real estate, whatever, but it's gonna be gone in 3 generations? That's what stat say. Right?
So how do I how do I, in the meantime, spend that time intentionally building them so that way it actually continues. Part of that is making that sacrifice. Part of that is that they they cason, my son. He knows what he's 12. He's old enough to know. Why I do it? Which is hate. I'm gonna I don't list his baseball games. Right? I'm there for those, but I'm not home early every day to hang out at the house. So but he knows why that is because, hey.
We, Equins are creating something for the next tech wins and the next tech wins. And maybe if we're really Wolfe really do everything that we wanna do, It's maybe it's worth creating something for some other families too, you know, like maybe we're changing Chaz a kid who's eleven years old right now who their parents are are just had a house bill Maybe they're gonna say like, Wolfe. That was such a great experience. Contractors, man, they they they've really turned it around.
And so that kid doesn't think that contractors are jerks and take the money against kids. Right. Look at they listen. Right? And then I Well, I don't wanna be a contractor. Bears hate on. You know? You don't want that. Right? So maybe that kid becomes a contractor who opens in a layer who continues this Generational thing changes his life or her life or, you know, it just it can really grow with you Chaz a family, make a commitment that they work on a to get up. Yeah. It's a family decision.
I love it. I got one last question here for you, Stacy. You kind of hinted at this at the beginning that, you never wanna you know, reach the end and and be regretful. So my question is this. If you could whisper in the younger Stacy's ear, What would you say? Hurry up. K. It took me it took me a while to get on track. I'd I'd I wasted it. I'm not wasted, but I let a lot of years go where I didn't have really an identity. I didn't know who I was. I was drinking and drugging.
I'm 4041. 42. I'll be 42 this year. And, you know, so I I started this whole thing really trying when I was like, 31 or 32 and and really, you know, I was really just barely getting like, I wasn't really trying to build a business. I was just trying to eat dinner at that point. So what for 5 years or 6 years, maybe. I've been really Right. Out and Right. And if I woulda started when I was thirty. Yeah. It I'd be in a totally different spot.
So I think I would say, hurry up and and take care of your knees if you're gonna get tired. You know, get going early. That's awesome. Take some take what are they? What was that? The vitamin for the knee knee health? Fish oil or something. Yeah. Exactly. Stacy, that's awesome, man. I appreciate the vulnerability. How can the listener find you? Number 1, if they're in your area in Seattle and they're looking to build a beautiful custom home. How can they find you?
And also, too, how can they reach out and just pick your brand as a business owner as a as a contractor trying to change the industry? Well, we've got All of them. So we are you can find us on our website, which is www.allaire Turkland, which is alarkirkland.com. There's our Facebook, which is Alair Kirkland, There's my personal brand, but personal, but a layer base Instagram, which is stacystacy.echmanekman. There's our company, instagram, which is Claire Kirkland to all one word.
And then LinkedIn, of course, Stacy SDSC Y. Last name is Eckman, e a j m a n. That's a great way to connect. And then if you need events, www.contourevents.com, and I think that's it. I wrote them all down, but I don't have them as friendly, but I I I I think that's it. That's all good. We'll put you in the email as well. You know his email. And my email address is stacydot Eckman. That's e ajmanallairehomes.com. Love it. Love it. We'll put all that. Super easy to get in the show notes as well.
Thank you for doing that. I just appreciate you being here, man. Like, you, 6 AM your time here Monday morning. I hope that the listener, not not not, like, appreciates that, but what you gave today being already up for 3 hours, you know, on a Monday morning was fired, dude. And so I just appreciate not only just the time, but just the fact that you've been doing this thing, for long enough to where you could share what you shared today.
So selfishly, I appreciate Chaz, and thank you for doing that. Blessings on your family and your business your team. All the things that you touch in 2023, we appreciate you being here. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Listening to Gathering the Kings today, I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself. What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing literally over 2 or 300 other very successful 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone.
And so gathering the Kings literally exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe Chaz in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you.
And you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go gatheringthekings.com. I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings talks in.