On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. We're all human. We all make mistakes. We're gonna fail at some point in time in something that we do. How do we treat the employer? How do we work with each other on that to make sure the learning experience is critical? Otherwise, everybody puts their head down and, you know, they're not willing to take risk or to try things. Even though they know it's the right thing to do, They're not willing to go there in case there's a punitive side to it.
You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars from business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be. We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the real today. We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along the way Chaz give a true and accurate picture of the journey of 6 and how you too can get there.
Through this dialogue, you will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and kings like today's guest. Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolfe, gathering the Kings podcast, and they've got Craig James. Here on the King stage. How you doing? Good. How about yourself, Charles? Big to be here. I'm doing alright.
You know, it's it's funny with you know, letting letting people see the insides of a production. You know, I beef the people don't know this listening, but before before we hit the record button here, I was calling Craig, his last name, by the company's name.
And we'll we'll get more of the story here as far as his involvement with the family and the story and all that fun it's it's always good to let people know that, you know, 300 episodes in, and I still fumble on some names every now and then. Either way, Craig, I'm happy to have you here. And I'm excited to have this conversation, especially with the information that you've already given to me off air. Tell us what kind of business that you got. Yes. So a pleasure to be here.
So thanks for having me, Chaz, and Barry House's ed was founded in 1934 where a coffee roaster still family owned 100% here in the New York City market. And a phenomenal business. It it started with Maxwell Goldstein who create he started the company with his cousin. They Chaz a joint company together, and then he stepped out on his own and started the Bronx Coffee company. Hand it over to his son, Herbert Goldstein when he came back from World War 2.
And when Herbert came back, his first born son was waiting for him, and so he renamed the company, Barry House Coffee, and that's where where we get our name from. But, yeah, we've been doing coffee since for the last 89 years. And just amazing family said 3 brothers owned the company, Barry, who's our our chairman and president, and then Paul and Ron on golden Chaz as well. So, yeah, just great folks. Yeah. Love that. Love that story. I love how you know it too.
Yeah. I mean, it's the DNA of where it comes from. You know? You know Chaz you're coffee experts because you are. Yeah. You know, that's the one thing about the 3 brothers and and what Dave passed on through tradition over to me, in what was passed on to them is just their whole focus Chaz always been quality and and the cup, the quality of the cup. So as I tell my team, every sit matters. It's a very fragmented industry. Lots of players in there.
You go down the retail aisle and somewhat overwhelming. There's 30 plus brands of coffee sitting on the shelves. No. It it matters. You know, some if you disappoint a customer, they don't have to come back to you for quite some time at that time ever at all. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of choices. And so when you're in the choice, I guess, wrestle, you've gotta you've gotta be different. You gotta an expert, you gotta be unique. We're gonna get into some of that as far as how you guys do that.
But for you specifically, Craig, I wanna know what's your why. You kinda you've talked about the family story, but but why are you doing this? Even though you maybe aren't necessarily, you know, the next generation of the family, but you're the next generation. So why you what's the bigger picture for you individually? Where where's the business going like Tell me the why.
Absolutely. So I I guess to tell the why I have to give a little bit of the past of where I came from and and the journey that I took that led me here to Berry House. So, originally, I have the pastry chef. Graduate, the culinary is to the America, just up the river here in in the Hudson Valley. Did pastries in the Washington, DC area, and Philadelphia, best of Philly for wedding cakes. I've decided to hang up my toe and go back to school to get a 4 year degree.
And as I went back, I got picked up by Mobile Oil. So I went from being a pastry chef into the oil industry. Mobile was bought by Exxon or merged with Exxon. Right. Amazing 22 year career all within the downstream side of of that business working around the world Chaz part of their global business is managing some units over in the Czech Republic lived in Europe in Prague for about 4 years, managing a lot of these. In Europe and Africa and the release. So Yeah. Phenomenal time.
Great great training ground, if you will, in regards to learning leadership and and how to run a really good business. Yeah. So then I had the opportunity to meet the gold steams more just to kinda lend in the air and provide some advice through a mutual friend. Once I met the gold season, I was really impressed with where they were and what their thoughts were in regards to the business and how they wanted to take it.
They had pretty much come to the point of where They wanted to step back from the business a bit. So I helped develop a strategy for them, and then they wanted me to be the one to execute it. So I was find an ExxonMobil company to work for, and and my career was still moving forward quite Wolfe. But I, you know, I've figured how often you get the to me where someone comes to you and says, hey. Here, I want you to run my company.
I think we have a strong connection, and Wolfe feel that you're the one who can take it to the next level. So I knew I would never be the CEO of ExxonMobil, but I I thought this was a wonderful opportunity to step in and kind of you know, test myself and and my resolve of how we can take a family business that's been around for, at that time, 85 years, and and move it forward. How do you set it for the next level?
So bringing everything that I knew about ExxonMobil in regards to process and structure and safety and roles. So we brought that into the business slowly to build a foundation that we can really escalate the growth of the company and and move forward quite strongly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously, your skill sets are a perfect fit or maybe a a strong connection Chaz as you said.
But what I heard underneath there is that you had a little little a little glimmer of, like, I wonder what it would be like to to be, you know, you were calling shots over there, but, like, now it gets to be a little bit more moldable. It's a little bit it's a little bit more clay, a little bit more, you know, you get to kinda have a little bit more control. So which is the entrepreneurial spirit? Right?
Yeah. Do you feel that the environment there for you is, like, just so much more entrepreneurial in comparison? Absolutely. You know, coming from a very structured company into a family business and most family businesses tend to one person, two people make the decisions throughout the organization relatively flat.
So coming in, and was really an opportunity to build a leadership team, build a mid level management team, develop a hierarchy for the business to operate off of and culminating all my experiences from ExxonMobil to bring that together and and, you know, pick this company to the next level.
We also built a board of directors brought in 2 external board members plus the 3 family members to give some good balance to it and really, you know, set off to to take this company, which, again, operated as 85 years as as a family business but have it professionally run to that next level. The family did a phenomenal job and growth and to get it to where it's at, particularly paying, like I said, strong focus on the quality of coffees.
But it was there's so much opportunity of what you can take this company. Also, we were primarily private labels. So most of what we were doing were for other people's brands in the same care and love and passion we put into their brands make sense to put into our own as well. So we launched the Berry House brand in the middle of the pandemic. And just really it's it's all about telling the legacy story of the company itself and the young I love it. I love it.
Well, which is how you started, and and it's an emotional an emotional grab on the heartstrings, and you're like, oh, yeah. Especially coming back after war. He changes the name for his son. Like, this is all fantastic. Okay. So there's a lot going on that you have inside of a business as the leader now, but not being a necessarily the founder. And so I I wanna kinda stay in that lane there. I just love that.
For for the person that's listening right now and maybe they're just beginning, they're, like, below a 1,000,000 in revenue, or maybe there's if someone listening right now, it's 10, 20, 30,000,000, and what they don't have is what you are implementing at another level inside of, you know, Berry House. And so you talked about mid level management. You talked about structure. You talked about a board of directors.
What what is those things give a company that, you know, like, maybe the listener doesn't have now. What would be the value of maybe one day or today? Maybe they should be looking at something like this for their company. Yeah. I mean, in regards to all that, I think it really boils down to repeatability on a day by day basis. So it's one thing to one day you know, have an amazing product and put out the quality and and kind of hit all the boxes.
But to do that consistently every single day, regardless of all the internal influences that are occurring or internal influences, you know, I I think it really gives you a platform to be repeatable. And when you could be consistent like that, now you start to really make some strong movement with the organization, the direction that you wanna take it as part of your overall strategy. So the structure in my mind is is critical to being able to develop to that next level.
I feel that you can go so far with the business just kind of running by the seat of its pants, but to to be able to really tap into the industry and really become a player regardless of industry You gotta have a structured approach to it. A lot of times with family businesses, you know, the person who's who's in charge or running it they're pretty much deep involved in any in everything.
There's no way as you grow a company that you can maintain that control over the organization to that same degree. Just not enough hours in the day. And so to be able to to develop folks around you and folks below you because that's the feature of the company itself. It's not the leadership team. It's the mid level managers. Right. Does it put a lot of time and effort and and development into them to make them future leaders of the of the organization.
That's really where you can start to delegate and relinquish control and Right. You have trust and faith in folks that they're gonna gonna support the vision that you put in place in order to move the company for. Yeah. Does someone listening today have to wait to be in business 85 years and, you know, a a a larger business that that has tons of employees like Barry House to to be able to start implementing these things? No. I think it can start pretty pretty quickly.
I think, you know, the first my sense is in The the 1st year or 2 of an entrepreneurial company or a startup, it's it's really, you know, all hands on debt. Usually, the majority of it's the vision of the entrepreneur of the owner of where he really sees his he or she really sees that company going. And so to inspire those around into start to build that out.
So I think it's probably a little bit of a challenge in the early years, but once you get that consistency, you have the a solid customer base in place and you're really focused on repeat repeatability at that point in time, then I believe it becomes more critical. So by the 3rd 4th year end, depending on, you know, the birth of the company is where I would see you'd have to start putting some structure and, like, what's the process? We know how to roast coffee.
We've been roasting coffee for 89 years now, but how do we roast the cough? And if we're we have employees that are 30, 35 years with us in in our organization Chaz they retire, How do we make sure that we roast the coffee the same way that we that's been very successful for us in the future? So if you can start to put that in place earlier on in the organization, I think it will help benefit and and, you know, as the company grows now, you've got a a stronger platform to grow upon.
Yeah. You said it perfectly. You said the the purpose and all of that is to create repeatability. Whether the owner wants to just wear less hats, which is obviously the the key eventually or even eventually handed off to somebody else, there has to be a repeatable process even if the owner's still involved, like, the guy lives in right now and, you know, he's only got, you know, five or ten people on his team.
What's holding him back is organization and being able to repeat it over and over and over at a faster rate with just more customers. Right. Right. You know, I I've read a quote recently that, you know, success is getting there, but excellence is is staying there. And Love that. Yep. It's one thing.
And and a lot of us, I think, have come across of where we're successful in certain things, but to be able to maintain it on a day by day basis and then continue to push the bar up on it and and increase the standard, You know, it's really where excellence is. And and, again, I'm I'm a big process structure guy, as you can tell. So to me, you've gotta have that structure in place be able to maintain the months out.
Yeah. I also loved how you snuck in there, the he or she entrepreneur because, obviously, you told me before we hit the record button that your wife is a a CEO and and founder of a great large organization and and kicking butt like you guys are like you are. So I'm sure I'm sure your dinner table is super fun as far as when it comes to business structure and strategy. We do. Absolutely.
And, you know, coming from a large corporation, as I did, stepping into a family business, with the experience that she had of of developing starting and growing a business, she had to that small business midsize business mindset where I had them large corporate mindset, and so she helped me quite a bit.
As I settled into the organization here at Berry House, because if I tried to put all that structure that we have at ExxonMobil in place immediately, I would have crushed it, you know, and it wouldn't have been successful. So Being able to understand it and get feedback from the organization of where you're at allows you to say, okay. Now let me start to push a little bit more in this area or a little bit more in that area.
So the overall objective stays the same, but how you're getting there, you've really gotta temper that in versus where the organization is. You can't just standard or or or sorry about that. You can't set a standard or or set a a goal and and just say, okay. Wolfe I wrote it down, the business will get there. No. You've gotta bring the organization along with you.
Yeah. You're I I'm just I'm marveling at the the the goal that's coming out of your mouth, honestly, but because first off, it's encouraging to the little guy who's listening, going like, oh, no. Like, I'm a mess. I need the process of systems today. It's like, well, yeah, you do, but, like, It's not gonna happen today. Like, you just need to start on it today. Right. Don't don't let after this podcast, like, don't end without starting. Exactly.
To the guy who's listening, who's doing maybe 10 or 20 or 50,000,000. And it's like, if they don't have them either, that, like, it's like, wait a second. Like, you're really operating at a pretty high level of intense chaos, really, which kind of a lot of companies do anyway, but there's some stuff inside of there that they can start doing. Is there is there a way that you were able to kind of take this, like, approach to be able to identify what area was first?
Is there, like, a red, green, yellow? You know, like, how do I how do I know which area to kinda focus on? Yeah. I mean, for me, coming into a manufacturing organization, particularly with the with the safety mindset of ExxonMobil. I started with safety, and that really was a way to change the culture here at Berry House as well. So within the 1st week, I came in. We're manufacturing. I wanted everybody to have vest. I wanted eyewear.
I remember one of the first days I walked out into the warehouse I had my vest done and my eyewear on, and I was the only one. And everybody's looking at me like, oh, he's serious. I'm like, yeah. Like, it's important. If you take care of your employees, and and teach them how to take care of each other, they'll naturally take care of the business itself. So, you know, 1st and foremost, we want our employees to go home the same way Chaz came with to us in the morning.
All all ten fingers and ten toes and, you know, a little bit of extra money in their pocket from the day, but but safety is it's key. And and to me, that's started the ball of of changing culture. The other aspect of it is communications and and the where Berry House was before I noticed that there was a breakdown or in in conversation with the owners. There were breakdowns in communications and and how the how employees were motivated around here.
So first thing I did day 1 was I took off the door to my office in to truly live an open door policy. It's, you know, it sent the message to the organization. Like, things are changing. And I do wanna hear from you. You know, we are in this together. If there's a hole in the boat. If operations has a hole on their side of the boat, it's all of ours. We're in one boat together. So, you know, we have to work together, row in the same direction and and really move the business.
And and so connecting with the employees has been extremely important. Yeah. Well, I mean, whether you're building a team or taking a team to another level, trust is a big deal. And it's an open door or the literal no door. I've I've removed the the barrier, you know, completely, which I think you're right. It's a statement. It's a little bit of a of a of an exercise, but you can live it out. Exactly.
And and, you know, to your point in regards to trust, you have to put the, you know, psychologically safe and by environment in place for those employees. We're all human. We all make mistakes. We're gonna fail at some point in time in something that we do. How do we treat the employer? How do we work with each other on that to make sure the learning experience is critical? Otherwise, everybody puts their head down and, you know, they're not willing to take risk or to try things.
Even though they know it's the right thing to do, They're not willing to go there in case there's a punitive side to it. Yeah. Yeah. Right now in the Chaz gathering the king's mastermind, we're going through You know, we've got some pretty big companies, but going through Patrick Lenciones, 5 disumptions of a team, and the first dysfunction is is a lack of trust. Basically. Yeah. And so it it breaks down.
Like, here here's a box of things that your team is likely doing if there's no trust, and here are the things that they're doing if there is trust. And everything that you just mentioned is, you know, concealing weaknesses, not speaking up, not asking for help. Just put your head down. Don't don't say anything. Just do do what you're told, but there's a, there's a freedom that comes with trust, which then is autonomy, which then can maybe lead to lack of control.
So I understand how some entrepreneurs are afraid of Chaz. Although the end result of that is actually lack of trust, which then demolishes pretty much everything you're trying to build anyway. Right. I mean, you do have to build the safety nets. You have to put the processes in place. You have to put, you know, we we run our business by KPIs now. And we've got Kaplan balance scorecards across each one of the department heads.
And and we're a data driven organization is what what we've been heading toward because You know, the the numbers and the data will tell you what's happening within the organization in addition to walking around and and talking with each one of the employees and checking in on them and seeing how they're doing.
But it also clarity of the communication of of where we're going and KPIs are a strong strong help in that area helps them understand helps our employees understand where we are in the journey and where we are within the short term goals and the longer term goals itself. And how they even play into that or how they're how their counterpart plays into that. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Love that. Okay. Well, let's get let's get into some some nitty gritty here.
We talked about so many good things that you've done. So maybe we'll repeat ourselves here a little bit, but I wanna know the good choice that you've made inside of Berry House. That's, like, when you look back, you're like, I'm glad I did that. What was it? Yeah. I think one of the first things coming in being a first time CEO and stepping into a a well established business was I got myself a leadership coach.
I I knew that I had weaknesses within myself that I needed to work on in regards to not having this experience. And so I reached out and and through my wife, I was or to an amazing gentleman. I retired colonel from the marine corps. So I literally called in the marines to help me help me get the organized with Colonel John Boggs. Retired from the Marine Corps.
No nonsense approach to leadership, but, you know, one of the the key things I learned about the Marine Corps is how much focus they do put on leadership. And the and the responsibilities of those involved or or those in charge, regardless of how many folks they have under them. So they're responsible for each and every single marine. Doesn't matter if you're, I'm probably gonna get it wrong, a a surgeon or something down in the lower ranks.
Or if you're a kernel, full blown kernel, or or general, you know, you're still responsible for every single person. I think one of the best things I ever did was bring in a leadership coach. Highly recommend anyone stepping into, or even if you're in a a business for quite some time to get a a coach. And John helped me quite a bit. He helped me establish the board, helped me teach the owners to be owners. Yeah. They're so used to being in the day to day.
For them to to change and and take that full step back. It's a big change for them. Yeah. And then, you know, helping helping me establish the leadership team and and put and develop strong leadership and then drive that leadership down into the mid level managers and teach them how to be leaders. So a huge huge proponent for, for making sure that you've got the right tools in place. And and John was a a phenomenal individual that left me with a lot of good tools.
Yeah. Underneath everything that you just said, so first, I thank you for the the honesty, vulnerability, the recommendation, even even the details of what he's been able to help you do. Underneath all that, I heard you say someone who, like you said, took a first time CEO opportunity, but had this lifetime career of success in corporate America.
Who's, in essence, had leadership training in one of the best organizations, quote unquote, maybe, his whole life, his whole career, and and But yet, taking in a new position, I'm sure you celebrated, but it was really, like, okay. This is another level I need to take this seriously. And so what I need to do is become a professional, even though you're already professional, you took professional action and got a leadership coach. I just I love the humility of that.
It's really what it is because even somebody listening right now who's, you know, maybe been in business years, or maybe they've been in business 10, 20 years, and they're crushing. There's still things. There's another level to go to, and so I I get that. That's the message I'm hearing. Would you like to add to that at all? Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I think one of the biggest misconceptions of leadership or ownership is you're supposed to have all the all the answers. And him, we we don't.
You know, I I'm I wanna be one of the dumbest people in in the room, not with my folks, because I mean, literally, they are experts in what they do each and every day. So the way I look at myself from my position is how can I take down the barriers keep them back from being the best they can be? And that's at all levels of the of the organization. So I'm big on on sagely chip on how we can move the entire organization forward in a positive way.
Again, more of a learning learning and development approach to to mistakes, but Really, it's understand and have that humility making your yourself vulnerable to your employees, I think, is a long way to truly connect with them. But I I I do think one of the biggest misconceptions about leadership is, oh, well, they have the answers. I'll just go straight to them. And that's not true.
And and coming into this, I knew right out of the gate, even though my culinary arts experience helped me helped me quite a bit with understanding coffee, I drank a lot of coffee in the corporate world to stay during all the meetings, but I really didn't understand coffee until coming into into Berryhams and and what good coffee is. So I think putting tools around you and setting yourself up success.
You gotta be humble and and understand where your vulnerabilities are and also share that vulnerability with your team. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. It's good. What about the flip side of that, Craig? I wanna know of a bad choice or something that you did that just didn't work out that we can learn from. Yeah. You know, I have no regrets in life.
I I think I think every opportunity is an opportunity to learn regardless of the results I I don't think there were any major kind of failures or or those type of things I've been pretty fortunate. The hardest challenges, I think, through were really around the pandemic time. Sure. You know, specific to to Berry House, you know, having to make some hard decisions early on when the pandemic was You know, we thought it was 2 weeks, 4 weeks here in the New York area.
It was a tremendous impact to business. And a a good portion of our business was focused on food service and office coffee, which shut down pretty much overnight. So we did hold on to every employee. I didn't do any any furloughs or layoffs and and that in itself posed its own challenges, obviously, from running a business that's been impacted from industry impacts like that. Yeah. But it was hard to, like, go with my leadership coach. I'll be honest.
You know, and and at a critical time of where we were, you know, the fog of war, we're in crisis mode, you know, to have that person right right beside me Chaz I could things of it. He was always open to it, but for me, just, you know, we had some really good coaches and contractors and folks and and to to bring the proverbial wagons, circle the wagons. It it makes sure we take care of our own.
It was a hard challenge to make because I I, you know, wanting to keep on the path that we were we were going on in the growth. 2019 was the strongest year we ever had in the organization and it's just 1 year after I came in and said to build upon that and suddenly go into a crisis mode from everything going on Right. Post a lot of challenges.
So I guess, long long answer to it, but I would say, you know, having to make those decisions to cut some some key contractors and some key or or coach was the biggest most challenging aspect.
Yeah. Which, you know, you can look at that and you can, you know, maybe there was some pressing through that could have happened, but what you were had in mind which I love what you said was we gotta take care of our own first, and it's not that I wanna get rid of this or that I think it would be it's valuable right now to let go of this, but in essence, you were kinda willing to sacrifice what was good for you for the benefit of of the others in your organization.
Yeah. Hey. You know, where I where I really struggle with it was the benefit to our mid level managers because we were really starting to turn the the wave in regards to their development. And to some, we have that abruptly stop. Trying to tackle it ourselves was with everything else going on was a challenge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How how in those moments do you think that you're able to weather that. Like, again, what you just said, you kinda gave 2 things happening at the same time.
Of course, the pandemic. And so you've got stress and you've got literal change in revenue. You've got, like, just this dysfunction and fear, like, the whole thing. Right? We all know that. Okay. Fine. And then over here, you've got people that are being developed, they're probably younger. They're probably, or at least younger in tenure, and you're trying to build up this this people.
And so you're they're managing this group of people, to manage others through all this craziness and the guy that's helping you build it all, you you can't afford him anymore. Basically, you're trying to be a good steward of the resources. So I mean, tell us just a little bit about that. Like, what what was that like on a day today? Yeah. I mean, it it was very challenging, extremely stressful.
Like, my COO and I were here every single day, And even though we sent the front office home to work from home for a couple of weeks and 5 months later, we brought him back. But every single day, we were here, and and we were in the trenches with our So we'd walk around. We're manufacturing. You can't send men manufacturing home.
And so now we we create these different pods these different teams, make sure they were separated so that we could keep our manufacturing production going, and then just checked in on them constantly, not only from are they doing from a work standpoint, but, you know, how are you at home? What are your challenges at home?
You know, we're all struggling through this the challenge of somebody being locked in at home and not really being able to go out and and, you know, enjoy life as we had before. So what can we do to to work with each other and and kinda help each other any which way that we can.
And so I think communication right from the start really having empathy with your with the team and and going and checking on them constantly really helped get us through the first parts of it The second bit of it, just from a personal standpoint, with with the challenges and the stress levels, like, I started physically having some issues because of the the level of stress and and my CEO as well.
I turned to to meditation and and kind of really, I always have been athletic and enjoyed running and stuff like that, but I I really needed to settle the mind because the mind was just Yeah. Constantly on. Yeah. And so meditation has helped quite a bit. Well, Yeah. I think the what you just said of settling the mind. I mean, there's a lot of ways you can do that, whether it be with activity or, like, being quiet and and meditating or praying.
Do you think kinda looking back on everything we've just talked about that that might have been the most important thing that you have shared, or is it, like, the underrated Yeah. Maybe? Yeah. I mean, I think from a Berry Health standpoint, yes, you know, the the one thing within ExxonMobil, it it's hard to make bad decisions in ExxonMobil because the amount of Chaz are involved in any given decision in the organization. So they they set up quite a bit of their own security nets in there.
I think from a personal standpoint, just when I was living in Europe and and making the decision of of work over family, I, you know, that's there's never a regret in my life. I think that's probably one of where I chose to to really focus on on work and it it came at the cost of my family at times. So Yeah. Well, I definitely wanna chat about that in a minute but the the process of your decision making, at least through the pandemic, it was just really helpful to hear. So thank you.
Do you have now, like, a process of thinking about certain decisions. I mean, obviously, you you just talked about safety nets with Exxon? Like, have you employed that same type of mindset within their house? Yeah. I mean, the approach that that we have to making decisions is what are you've gotta really evaluate it. You just can't gut react and and go with incision, you know, regardless of how tight that time frame is.
You've gotta always take that step back, take that deep breath, and then, okay. Where do we go from here? But the approach that I really like is, first, you've gotta take a look and see what must we get out of this? You know, out of this decision, we're making what are the results that we absolutely must have. And then when she classify that as what do we want? On this.
So if if this is what we need or what we must have, what do we want out of it Chaz well with the decision, then identify the risks associated with it. And you have to come up with a couple of options. You just can't. Not every decision is a one answer decision. It's you've gotta look at your options and say, okay. In any given circumstance, where do I go from here and and what are their alternatives do I have to it? So, yeah, I mean, that's how I I like to approach it and and take a look at it.
You know, the other bit of it is you do have to listen to your your gut. Your gut is your subconscious. And with all the training and all the learning and all the experiences that we go through, we our existing state of mind can't keep up with it, but our subconscious can. And so being able to kinda tap into that, take the deep breath and step back gives you a chance to say, you know what? I think it's really gonna be this with all the alternative alternatives that I have and then move forward.
And once you make that decision, the decision made, you gotta you know, you can adjust it. It's you don't have to sit there and say the stake is in the ground. It's never gonna move. No. You can pick that stake up and move and say, you know what? Maybe this is a little bit better a little bit better, but, yeah, at least have to take a direction and set off toward it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you just gave us some really, really great insight.
The for the guy who's listening right now who, you know, I I just remember years ago, just run him and gun it. Like, quick decisions. And I and I've got a couple of startups right now where that environment is more like that where he was like, you know, ping ping ping ping, and it's fun. And there's a lot of energy and and some entrepreneurs are drawn to that, right, where it's like, no. I don't wanna slow down and think about this and think about 17 options. I wanna just go with this one.
And a lot of times, it bites you. Right? Not all the time, but that's typically where our, you know, we look back or we probably could have done that a little different. So what would you say for that guy who's You know, he he kinda likes maybe the running and gun in. What's the value for him to go, okay.
Wolfe, rather getting, you know, one marketing agency to look at or rather than having just my own self thinking about what what this process change should be, but rather bringing in my team and and maybe considering 2 or 3 or maybe 4 other options, and really spending some time on this decision. What's the value and all that? Yeah. I think it has tremendous value. Again, you know, we don't have all the answers.
So to be able to get other folks input and and based off of their experiences, I think it's critical in the decision making process even if it's bouncing something off of someone outside of the organization, you know, a trusted friend or or network or another executive or or peer set of of the CEO. I think really helps quite a bit. I'm unfortunate because I live with 1.
So, you know, I can go home and bounce some things off of her and her experiences, but I also have other networks that I tap into just to it's always good to have a you know, you don't have to inundate yourself with a 1,000,000 different data points, but to have more than one data point helps. Yep. I agree. The data and and over the course of time, what that does is it gives you a history of looking okay. So, like, here's what here's what we analyzed. Here's where we went.
Chaz was a good choice, or maybe it wasn't a good choice. And so now that now you have another data point to be able to compare it to. Okay. Let's go to the speed round here, Craig. I wanna know You said you're a data driven organization now. What's the one KPI that you would track if you could only have one? Yeah. That's a hard hard one. Obviously, it would either be the customer experience index or a or an employee experience index.
And if I only have to pick 1, I'd probably go with the employee because if we have happy employees, then they'll be very good at their jobs, and we'll have half customers from that. So, I would put it more on on that aspect versus the EBITDA or any income line or anything. I think the the most important bit of it of really the health of the organization is with the employee base. Yeah. And so you are referencing an employee kind of a index.
Are there certain things that, you're tracking, measuring? You're looking at every quarter every year. How give us some insight Yeah. So we do an annual employee satisfaction survey. And, you know, surveys are good, but it's a point in time. I think the best way to really understand, just get on the floor with your employees, you know, walk around and talk with them and and be present and all the times. And when you're chatting with them, like, truly engage and and listen.
Yeah. The biggest part of communication is is listening. It's not talking. And to to understand and kind of, as you've done to me numerous times in our discussion, Roy, you're like, okay. You said quite a bit, but your underlying you know, remark in there or or or tone is really focused on this. So you gotta really pay attention and understand what's going on with your employees and the health of their of them to get an an understanding of the health of the organization. Yeah. You're right.
And to your main point there, Can't do it if you're talking or not even there. Right. Right. Right. This this thing's a big deal. Yeah. And, I mean, we're all busy. Right? You know, there's a million things on on our to do list and and meetings that we have to go to and customer visits and everything else, but you gotta take the time. You gotta walk the floor. You gotta really connect. It's all about connection. It is. It is. How how did you come to realize that?
Because there's a difference in, like, hearing you say it's not connection purposely going on to the floor, not just, like, making the rounds, you know, let alone even even if someone's not even doing that type of an action. There was something that happened along in your career where you're like, no. No. The connection. It's actually about, like, human to human. I see you. I will actually value you, value your opinion. Wanna hear what's going on in your world. Like, I care.
Like, how did that happen? Yeah. Great question. I, you know, I don't know where I I think I get an opportunity to really tap into it coming here. You know, ExxonMobil, it was results driven. We are very result driven organization and and heavy on KPI.
And everything else, but I think the human factor was missing to some degree, and not to take away from the great work that they do and and the leadership they build, but, you know, it it's just think based off of the type of organization that is, it's it's all about the results.
Also being a a public company, you know, Wall Street was constantly in the shorts of of the company to make sure that they were, you know, hitting the results that were expected and regardless of situations that were going on. So for me, I I think I've always had it in in me, back when I was a pastry chef, I I always I worked shoulder to shoulder with folks. And, you know, regardless of the situation, you just jump in, roll up your sleeves and and and go for it.
So I think it was in me and just coming into Berry House. It was an ability because I didn't know coffee, or this type of manufacturing I wanted to learn. And so being hungry to thirsty to grow, I I just always put myself in the back and and tried to spend as much time. And then, you know, really getting to know the folks, getting to know the employees, Cockey Chaz been really good to the family, and and the family wants to take care of their employees.
And and the that's one of the core things that's shown when I I was first talking with him, which is why I took that risk of jumping across and and coming to bear. I love it. All great answers. What what book or maybe resource, would you recommend, Craig, for a business owner trying to go to the next level?
Yeah. I mean, the the one that I just recently finished up that I really liked was the road less stupid, It's advice from the chairman of the board, and I think Keith Cunningham was the one that wrote it, but it's really all about taking that time to think. And in leadership positions, again, with everything's rapid fire and coming at you and on any given day, but you have to have some downtime Chaz truly think.
I think one of the things I really miss and what I enjoyed at at EXAM, what was all the international travel where you when you're locked into playing, your phone's not going crazy. You're not gonna get the emails, and you actually can sit there and strategize and understand, okay. This is where I am today. Where are we gonna go tomorrow? And Are we still on track to the vision we have for the company in 2 or 3 year, 5 year plan?
So Yeah. You know, the book is really heavily focused and gives gives some good leadership advice in it. But it also poses some really pointy questions that you should be asking yourself. And at the end of each chapter, there's a list of questions to to go off and think with. And so I I really enjoyed that book, and and I've shared numerous parts of it with the leadership team here and with the mid level managers. Yeah. That author is big on think time.
So I think that's a that's a great result to get from a book like that. I also too, just a second, your opinion on travel. I'm a super urgent, like, hurry up quick and make everything happen now type of an individual. So it's those built in moments where, you know, I'm waiting in line or sitting on the plane. Like, all those moments where it's like and you can actually go to that place mentally. Of course, you know, I'm sure like you, I've built some of those times in throughout the week now.
Sure. But, man, those travel moments, a lot of people don't like travel for that reason, but I'm like, I've learned to love those moments because, man, those are those are those are great built in. I can go wherever I need to go mentally moment. No. I absolutely agree. And, you know, I don't have my team appreciates it because every time I step off on the airplane, it's like, hey. I had this great idea. We're gonna let's look at this, this, and this.
And Yeah. But I I I do believe that you need to take that downtime rest rest everything, you know, rest everything that's going on around you and step back and and give yourself some time thing. Bill Gates does it perfectly. Right? Every every year he takes 2 weeks off and he goes out and he reads a 100 different books and you know, he takes time to really understand and think and and build upon himself.
I I don't think many leaders or there probably should my opinion, more leaders should take time for themselves as well. And I don't think as and I fell into the trap numerous times in my career, addicts on mobile, and and early on here at Berry House, you you one person, and and you're not Superman, but you've gotta be able to to take some downtime, rest of the mind, rest of the body, and things will become much more clearer for you as well.
You know, challenges that we have that we struggle with throughout the day, suddenly, and 2 o'clock in the mornings, both upright and bed. And you're like, I got the answer to that. That's because the minds had a chance to relax a bit and say, okay. The answer is there. It's just a matter of of receiving retrieving it or getting that to getting to it. Yeah. Love it. Craig, what do you think about potentially networking or master mining with other entrepreneurs, CEOs?
Yeah. I I I chatted a little bit about this. I think, you know, you have peer set as a great opportunity to learn. You may not have had that experience yet. And when you go through that experience, you may have the opportunity of catching up to it even if it's just a little tidbit of what somebody else went through that may be able to help you out through it. So I'm a big proponent of mentoring and and working with peers and and networking for sure.
I think a lot of opportunities come from networking as well. You know, Barry House was was through an end of a person that I knew and and that in my overall network. I hadn't kept as much in touch with that person, but when they reached out to me, they're like, hey. Would you mind chatting with the gentleman? He has a coffee business. I was like, I'll help a friend out and sure. And so you just never know where it goes. You just never know. I love Chaz. So that dot dot dot at the end of that.
Got a question for you about family. Yeah. Craig, you mentioned earlier that, maybe one of your biggest regrets, but maybe maybe what did you miss there, or what do you do now where you're able kinda go all in with Berry House and marriage and kids and all the things you have going on. Yeah. It's being present. You know, regardless of where you're at and and again, it it it's even here.
If I'm in back, talk new employees, or if I'm in a meeting, I'm not You know, I'm looking at my phone or I'm wondering awfully in my mind, Wanda, you're not present in the moment. So Yeah. From a work standpoint, I think, being present is incredibly important. It's a respectful thing to do. If, you know, for me to be looking at my phone right now isn't respectful to you.
But, likewise, when we're home, You know, it's the the center of the my world is right there, and so I wanna give her all the the time and energy that I have. And and we understand the demands on each other and you know, there's things that have to get done and and so we carve out time, but it's being in the moment and and being able to to be present at that given given point.
So that's, I think, is is really changed my mindset overall because to sit there and stress about work and stress about resolve and stressed about this and stressed about that. It it's not healthy, and it it literally can physically change who you are. Yeah. Yeah. Got one last question here for you. Are you ready? Sure. You could whisper in the younger Craig's ear. What would you say? Things. Yeah. I wish I had the wisdom in my head now way back when. That's a very good question.
I'm I'm a little I think you stumped the chump there a little bit. I think the, you know, the thing that just initially pops in in my mind is, you know, things will work out. And, you know, I think we get ourselves into situations or times, you know, whether in in business or in in personal personal life of where Wolfe feel like that's a sudden abrupt end. And there is a tomorrow. There is a a way through.
And even though it may feel like life altering and, you know, aside from diseases and those type of things and or health challenges, but more business focused Look. There's a pathway through. It may not be smooth, the highway. It may be a a bumpy ass road, so to speak, but there's a way through.
And so just to have that that understanding Chaz, regardless of what comes your way, you'll be able to handle it in some form or cash make it to the other side, I think, is is what I would tell myself because I think that would have kept a lot of anxiety down and and that kind of kept me a lot calmer in the earlier. Thank you for that. It's a pretty pretty incredible message. I mean, so, hopefully, hopefully, some younger Craig is listening right now and can take that.
You've been incredible and and sharing and being being vulnerable about your story and how you're helping all these new things come into the very house. I just so appreciate your time. How can the listener find Berry House, or how can where can we buy the product? And Yeah. And, of course, how can we connect with you? Yeah. Absolutely. So we have our own web store, and we're on Amazon, but our web store is Berry House dotcom, barrihe.com. We do amazing paired trade organic coffees.
It's all about giving back to the industry and giving to the communities that we live in. We also did quite a bit on gender equity with women farmers and organizations focused on elevating the awareness of of inequities within women in the industry. So trying to do our part with Chaz. So our coffees are really focused on on that aspect of it. For me personally, they can reach out to to me at cjains@berryhouse.com or follow me on LinkedIn.
I'd be happy to connect and and share anything that I can to help button. Absolutely. Well, we will put all that information for them to be able to grab in the show notes. You've been just a great guest sharing all kinds of wisdom here us today. And so I just thank you for that. Blessings on your company and your team, your family, all the things that you have coming up in 2023. Thank you for being here, Craig. No. I appreciate it. Thank you, Janice.
Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself, doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself. What I have realized, not only in my own journey, from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing literally over 2 or 300.
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