On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. A lot of people don't know how great TV is. They think it's old. They think it's branding when in reality, if you do it right, you can get Returns pretty quickly? You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars from business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be.
We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the real today. We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along the way Chaz give a true and accurate picture assess and how you too can get there. Through this dialogue, you will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and keys like today's guest. Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in. What's up, everybody? I'm Wolfe gathering the king's podcast.
Today, I've got Tony Javier on the King stage. My brother, Tony. How we doing? What's up, Mister Chaz? Good to see you, man. Yeah, man. We were just chatting offline. We've got some Midwest roots. Between the two of us. And so I think we'll have just a a good old Midwest conversation here today, but you're doing big things in a lot of different areas, and I can't wait to get some of that. Tell us what kind of business or in this case, business is that you got, brother.
Yeah. So I started a little over 20 years ago in the real estate investing realm by info product on TV. No down payment. No down payment system by Carlton Sheets. A lot of you guys have probably heard that. I heard about that. If you're old enough, I've got some clients that that that are pretty young that are like, what is that? I don't know what that is. So Right. But, yeah, he'd back in the seventies or eighties, I think, is when he start.
And then I think he he passed away about 3 years ago, but I think he kind of faded out early 2000. But any which way about a $200 info product on TV Wolfe I I was waiting tables and in college. So ended up dropping out of college with 9 hours left to graduate, which my mom still give me grief for, but it is what it is. 20 years late. And so over the last 20 years, I'm just, born entrepreneur always cray always had crazy ideas and over the years, some co working space now.
We do in the in the real estate business. We do flips. We do rentals. Now we run TV commercials for real estate investors all over the country Chaz well as other industries. So it's able to start TV commercials over 10 years ago for my business, which was not something that people did for real estate investing. Right. So I was able to crack the code on that and now now we we service all industries. I think I mentioned co working space a little bit, and I just love to play pick up on fly, man.
It's just that's One of those things where you get you get you get a certain place in business, you wanna kinda reap the rewards. And I'd I grinded and hustled for many, many years, which I can probably get into and and give you guys some learning lessons. But so, yeah, I've done a lot of different things. Right. It's that's been a long good journey.
And for those who are looking to get into business, it's people look at it as fun, which it can be, but it's also challenging, but it really makes you makes you strong and you learn a lot. So that's kind of the short and skinny of my back. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. We're gonna dive into a little bit more of that, but you know, it's interesting that so many different dynamics happening all at once. And but I loved how you said it didn't happen all at once.
I mean, it's happening all at once now, but you've built it over the of time. So I think that's important for, especially some of the newer entrepreneurs that might be listening. I think that we all get a little shiny object syndrome and sometimes Chaz hear a guy like Tony talk about all these things he got going on, and we think that that's that's the that's the the right flow. But definitely wanna get into some of this because you've got some incredible.
I love how actually your story started with you buying an infomercial, and then now you sell TV. I know. Right? That that full circle. So that's pretty unique and fun, but it's an industry that we haven't actually had on here on the show. Lots of real estate, lots of investors, some pretty big guys, but you're the only one doing TV, so I definitely wanna dive into that. Before we do, I wanna know your why.
Like, deep seated, you already kinda gave us a little bit that you're reaping some of the rewards and and living some of the the better lifestyle, but you're still at it. I mean, otherwise, you wouldn't be here. So what's the bigger picture for you? Yeah. It's a great question. So I think most entrepreneurs, when they start out there, why is kind of, like, has something to do around money and success. Right?
I I'm sure you've been there at some point or And some people still are 20 years later, but money is great. Money success is great and all that. But it's it's changed over time. And I think still it's gonna continue to change. In the beginning, it was making money and what could I achieve? What success I could have? All that good stuff. Now for me, I think it's I think it's leverage. I think it's been able to do as much as humanly possible.
Make an impact on employees, investors, clients, the world in general, with having to do as little as possible, if that makes sense. Right? I mentioned to you that automated my real estate investing business 7 years ago so I could move to to San Diego. And, I just kept creating jobs for myself. My I automated one business, then I'd start another business, create another job, then automate that one.
And then we're kind of at the point where I do have one business right now that's taking a lot of time in mind, but the the the fact is is that I love I love the leverage points. I mentioned pickleball and flying, like, literally, like, this afternoon, I'm probably just gonna take off and go play pickleball. Whereas the old me would have been grinding until 6, 7, 8 o'clock at night to try and achieve and and get as much done as humanly possible.
But, actually, what I found through that is that when you when you take that time off just like you talk we talked about we're both going out of town tomorrow, right, but you fit, but you only have a certain amount of time to do something. You're gonna figure out how to do it, or you or maybe you don't do it. It's obviously not that important if you don't. Right. So I guess the short answer is we'll just, I guess, fulfillment with with not having to, I guess, try so hard.
I used I used to feel like I had to try so hard. To make things happen and granted I'm 20 years in. So I've got some momentum, and I've got people in place and all that kind of stuff to to to keep me going. But going back 20 years ago, I would do things way differently, and I'd figure how to do them smarter, do them with more resources, and just do it with a lot less effort. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what leverage is. Right? Like, you you may the word.
As soon as you said the word, I think that anybody listening here today that has a big business or that has had any level of success understands that word because It's not just the fact that it's easier. Well, of course, it's easier. It's it's it's literal leverage. Like, you're you're doing something that's lifting a whole bunch more weight and it's easier. So it's like this. Both sides of the scale, I do so much more, and it didn't take as much effort.
And so it's like this actually, this weird place to be for a minute until you can kinda get settled in to that this is the new normal. I'm curious for you being 20 years in, was there a a point or a a leverage point where you recognize Chaz, like, okay. I'm doing things differently now. I I I put in this amount of effort. It's a different type of effort, which we may may we Chaz get to, but I put in this type of effort and actually get ten times the the reward.
I'm gonna start doing it more like that. When was that moment? That's a great question. So 10 years in, About 9 or 10 years in, I kinda hit a breaking point. I I I didn't really ask for a lot of help. I just kinda put my nose down and just grinded. That's just kinda the way I did things. I'd wake up at sometimes 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning and start working and work until 9, 10 o'clock at night. I mean, I just those days in those week.
And I kinda hit a point where within 30 days, I had to fire my whole staff. And Part of that was me not being a great leader. Part of it was hiring the wrong people, but Sure. I mean, when you have people that are stealing from you and Yeah. I I think all 4. And let's see. 33 out of the 4, maybe off 4 were living in my houses at the time. So imagine having to fire your whole staff take back all of that work that would that they were doing.
And you're Then you have to go and evict them, and then they threatened to sue you because of whatever reasons, and it's like, oh my gosh. So I just I hit a, like it was probably one of the toughest 6 months of of my life just because I went from having this success and and feel like I'm going here to feel like I'm crashing. Yeah. And it happens. It's gonna happen. It may happen again. I don't know. But I realized that I was just doing doing things wrong.
I think that was the biggest leverage point was I was hiring the wrong people working way too hard. And so I went to my sister by the way, I have 7 sisters. Wow. So I so I went to the so I went to the 1 And you're the only brother? I'm the only one, man. Everyone. Yep. Yep. Which which, you know, it it sucks growing up, but that's actually part of my success, I think, is that I I didn't feel like I was really scene because I had 7 sisters, and I just had to stick out. Right?
So Yeah. But that's a whole another story. So so, yeah, so so I went to the one that I thought could really just take a a handle on my business and and help me out. So Yeah. She'd run she'd run her the business she worked for for about, I think, 12 years. She was basically the hub of everything, and I knew I knew how she operated. I mean, she was just no bullshit. Got stuff done. Very detailed. Must be the oldest? No, actually. Okay. Okay. I think right in the pretty close to the middle.
Yeah. Alright. And so so, anyway, so I met it for for lunch, and was like, she thought I was beat down. And I was like, I've kinda talked about you maybe coming to work for me. What do you think if you came to work for me? And I'd had I'd have to bear twice as much as anybody else I'd paid before. Yeah. And I told her my goals, and I said, here's what I'm looking to do. And she got she looked at me in the eye and she's like, I can make that happen.
And I was like, I could see the confidence in her eyes, and I'm like, I need Alright. Let's go. Let's go. So here we are 11, 12 years later, and she runs my my flipping operation. She helps with some of the other businesses I have She's the key point that's helped me too. I'll be able to move here to to San Diego, dream to to live here, and and be able to invest in other places. And so that was kind of the turning point.
And, you know, if you told me back when I was going through all that, like, this is one of the best things that's ever gonna happen to you. You're right. I'd have been like, what are you talking about? How have you been stuck? This really sucks. Glad it was. It was one of those turning points that I'll never forget, and it made me stronger, and it and it forced me to make better decisions. So I think when people get kind of in that medium point, I think Tony Robbins what does he call it?
The I don't know. I think he calls it no man's lands. When you have success, it's great. When you have failures, so you figure out how to how to work that. But when you're in the middle and you're too comfortable. That's kinda when you're when when good stuff isn't happening for you. I'm just a little too comfortable. So I think a lot of people kinda ride that and don't try not to to take too many risks and that kind of thing, and they just don't grow as much.
So so, yeah, so it's one one of the turning points of, really, my my life, but but my business, for sure. Yeah. I I loved how you you gave that depiction of not only just your sister, but but, really, it could be anybody. It could have been a friend. It could have been someone you hired. The leverage point was you thinking different. Number 1, being willing to ask for help. That's what I heard you say first. You didn't say that, but that's what I heard you say.
Chaz you hadn't been able to do before. Number 2, you were willing to at least entertain the conversation around paying somebody who was a professional. Most likely the people you had to let go before were just generalists. They weren't specialists. They weren't somebody who you could go, you know what? Here's exactly what you're gonna do. In fact, was looking at you and the eyes going, I can do that. And when you sit across the table from that person, the pocket book gets a little scared.
But it should get you fired up. And so I heard you say all that. And then, of course, it ties back to a few minutes ago. You said the word automated. So you automated your business. And a lot of people think immediately, you know, that you put some system in place, some software, and I'm sure there's plenty of those that you use. But, really, what you just said is that you found a key Wolfe. You hired well.
And, of course, I'm sure she's built now a team around herself even that has automated that business. Would you like to speak to that? Yeah. So Like I said, I worked a 60 day, 8 a hour weeks pretty consistently, and I did okay. I made good money. But if I look at the money I made in to the money I make now and the hours I work then and the hours I work now, I mean, my my dollar per hour is, like, ridiculous because I only work about an hour a week on my real estate investing business now.
It's that automated. All I do is I look at financials once a week. I glance at them. I approved contracts. I prove I might work 2 to 3 hours sometimes if I need to schedule a meeting with my sister and just go over a bunch of stuff. Like, maybe we're having some issues with some some things. Yeah. So going from 60 to 80 hour a week. So working 3 hours a week, making more money. It substantially increases your your output per hour leverage again. Sorry. What was your question again?
No. You're good. I was just lost in your answer there. I'm not even sure if I'm I'm I'm gonna remember myself. Oh, automation. Yep. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The, you know, automation of humans, really, is what it is. You use you used people to automate. Yeah. It's it's multiple things. It's it's definitely the right people. So, I mean, and I'm not perfect. Like, I I had to let go of two people in the last 30 to 45 days. That's real. But luckily, it's not two people out of 4 this time.
It's two people out of 15. But so it's It doesn't hurt as much, but I kinda got rid of the the weaker links, and I made a really, really good hire, 2 weeks ago. And she's been I've known her for for a few years kind of same story. Friend she's I was friends with her family, so I'd met her many times. Worked for another business for 20 years.
Just perfect opportunity and brought her on board, and she's light years ahead of, yeah, like, basically me hiring her, replace the two people that were weaker, at least. You know what I mean? Just easily. So people is definitely a big leverage point. I used to spend too little on people. I would I was like, man, if you if if I could get someone at 10 to 12 bucks an hour, I'm hiring them.
I just thought Chaz, cheap, cheap, and didn't realize that the the more you pay typically, the the the the more you get back. And then systems, see, people talk about as kinda cliche systems, but I have really good systems because when I get I was actually on a a mastermind call with some real estate clients of mine. And I showed them my system behind how I approved deals.
And I showed it to them, and they're like, well, well, how do you know, like, they were just drilling me about this and Chaz? And and I told him, I said, I've got a team. I've they run the numbers really well. I don't know about any properties until they put them on a contract. I'll get an email that says here's where the property came from, the lead source. Right. Here's the the deal analyzer. Here's the comps that you wanna look at them.
Here are the pictures And within 5 minutes, I can tell whether that's a deal or not. And the 990, I've only disapproved maybe one deal in the past out of hundreds of deals in the last 7 years since I've been out of that role. And so creating good systems around good people. And when you get good people in place, they create the systems for you too. So it's not just you having to create the systems and then having the people operate it. Right.
Good people are gonna bring good systems or or help with good systems. Yeah, I think those are the 22 big leverage points is getting good people in place and either you creating the systems for them with them or having them create them. And when they create them, it's even better because Yeah. You don't have to do the work as much and they buy into it more because if they're the ones Chaz created the system and they're working it, then they feel like they've got ownership.
Yeah. I wanna ask you a little bit more on Chaz. It's funny. We're we're in, like, 1 of the 4, like, main veins of of what Gathering the Kings exist for is leverage, number 1, but inside of the different leverage points, time. You have to buy your time, how you buy your time Chaz building teams and creating systems and process. And so I love I love this lane. The what you were just talking about as far as hiring somebody and then them creating an assessment for you.
My question for you is if the listener's hearing you right now and they're like, okay. I'll go find an a player. They'll create all the systems for me. We know that this is probably not how it's gonna happen. How do you know that this person is good enough or that they they're the right one to create the system. You know what I mean? Cause you got a lot of people who will raise their hand and go, but then they create a mess. And you're like, I gotta I gotta fix it. You know what I mean?
Yeah. I mean so the the 2 that I just, like, one of them I don't wanna say Chaz a perfect resume, but, like, they they had the experience I needed. They had the personality they had the right answers. They and and and hiring for sales is the toughest thing because usually slaters, man. Perfect. And and talking you into that they can do x yz. That's right. When they get into it, it's like, can they perform? You just don't know until you until you get in there.
So There's a lot of things you can do to figure out if it's the right person. For me, there's there's a few things I look at. One is longevity at other businesses. Anybody that I've hired that has over 10 years with one company, and it's even 5 years. Like, that's a long time. Think about it. If someone dedicated 5 years to a company, that means that they had the dedication to stay there for 5 years.
And that means that their employer wanted them there for 5 years unless they just did did what a lot of people do and kinda let things go. But chances are, I mean, 5 years, they're they're doing something right. That's right. 10 years, that's you don't I mean, that's, like, less than 1% of people. I bet I've worked for the same business for 10 years. So when I get a resume and I see longevity. That's one big thing to me. Another thing is culture fit.
Like, when you talk to someone, you usually can tell if they're gonna flow well with your business. Sure. And having your employees interview that person is gonna tell as well because someone might go, you know what? I just don't feel a good vibe. Something maybe I didn't feel. Or someone may say, You know what?
This person said something that just doesn't jive with our with with how we work, but so hiring for the culture is big because if you have One person like, one of the people that go, they they had a pretty decent resume. They had pretty good energy, but when it came down to it, they weren't a culture fit. And then we didn't under we didn't understand it until they got in got into the business because then they started pointing fingers at people and my team, they're they're all about teamwork.
And so when you have someone coming in saying, Wolfe, it's your fault. And that and it's like, dude, that's that guy sticks out like a sore thumb. And it just it I let it go a little too long because he was working on some big projects for and and it it ended up working out because we found the other hire that I just mentioned. And I could go on and on about the things you look for. You can check references and dig deep into there.
You can obviously do background checks and all that kind of stuff, but, unfortunately, you really don't know until until you get them in there and they start working and they there's there's a saying that says hire slowly and fire quickly. Right.
So if you can tell that someone is not a good fit for the Wolfe, no matter what kind of responsibilities they have, I probably could have done it a month or 2 earlier for one of for one of those one of those fire but just it is what it is, but fire fire hire slowly and fire quickly means take your time and make sure you have the right person.
And if they become not the right person quick quickly in your business and they show you who they are pretty quickly, just listen to your instinct in the beginning. I've I've Like I said, when when I fired those four people, I I'd probably had them on way too long way too long. I let things go. I've They were showing up late, not performing, and it just I I was still pretty young in my career, so I didn't really really know know better. But now now I see the signs and and know better.
And your business is your baby, and someone's not coming in and doing what what they need to. Don't feel bad for letting them go because If they're not thriving in your organization, then if you're keeping them around, yeah, they're getting a paycheck, but they're still not thriving either. You're not thriving. They're not thriving. And nobody's winning in that situation. Yep. I agree with you completely. I wanna ask you about some good and bad decisions here.
It was kind of the the MS of the show. You've already mentioned hiring your sister kinda was like a, like, a huge leverage point, but I wanna know of a specific, maybe, or even practical decision that you made inside the business, or maybe even one that she's made, interesting in light, because you've given her that autonomy, that you can look back on. You go, okay. That one thing right there, We would do that over and over and over again because it's it's it's good. What is it?
That's a great question. So I can't remember if it was before we hit court or after, but I started doing when I mentioned TV commercials, when I started I started doing TV commercials for my business about 11 years ago, I ended up meeting a guy at a poker game that was on TV. This is how it started. And I was like, oh, that's his name's Chad. And I was like, oh, dude, that's Chad from TV. So I kinda started talking to him and make you aware.
It's like, man, how how your commercial's doing for you? And he's like, dude, I do we do 1,000,000 of dollars a year from TV. Wow. And I'm like, Really? That's interesting. He's like, yeah. That's the only marketing we do. And I was like, oh, that's cool. So I just started asking him questions, and he's like, you know what? Why don't you talk to my guy, Drew? He's the one that got me on TV, and he can he can tell you all about it. So I called Drew. And I was like, hey, Drew.
Chad told me that, you're the guy. You're the TV guy. Tell me about it. He's like, and we'll tell me about your business. He goes, let me do this. He goes, let me go to the stations. I'm gonna negotiate some rates for you. I'm gonna put together a budget. Bring it back to you if you like it. Let's do TV together. And if not, then totally understand. Yeah. So it comes back to me, and it's like, it's a lot cheaper than I thought it was gonna be. Wow. And so I was like, let's give it a shot.
I'm I'm I'm worth get I'm worth throwing things against the Wolfe. See if they're gonna stick. So I created the scripts. We went into this we went in and shot the commercial together. He kinda coached me through it. Within 30 days, I was on TV. I became a celebrity in my market. 10x to my money in the 1st month Wow. Which pretty much paid for my whole year. And then I was off and running from there.
And then the crucial decision I made was 3 years ago, you know, over the years, people are like, why don't you show people what you're doing? Why don't you show real estate investors, your formula, what you're doing, that kind of stuff? Yeah. And there's barely anybody doing TV in the country over the last 10 years. And so a few years ago, again, someone talked me into it. So I went to my guy, Drew, and I said, hey. You got me on TV. At that point, it was 8 years ago.
I said if I were to show people what I'm showing my commercials, my scripts that I've tested, we've tweaked all kinds of different things to kind of perfect what we do, where I said if I marketed it and showed real estate investors what I'm doing and create program around it, would you do the fulfillment? Would you negotiate with the stations like you did for me? Would you do the production, all that kind of stuff? Yeah. He's like, yeah. Let's give it a shot. So we did a we did a test launch.
I called, I think, 10 real estate investors that I knew that were doing decent volume. And and eight of them said yes. That we could do a test launch with them, and they started getting similar results that I did. They they in the 1st month, they were just crushing it. So so we scaled it up, and now we're we have over a 100 real estate investors running TV commercials with us. Wow. We're we're doing real estate agent commercials now.
We're getting into the other businesses as well because my my guy, Drew, that does TV commercials, he's been doing it 25 plus years. Yeah. And so talk about leverage Yeah. I'm able to market it and show people how great TV is because a lot of people don't know how great TV is. They think it's old. They think it's branding when in when in reality, if you do it right, you can get returns pretty quickly. Wow. And then he does all the fulfillment he does all the back end.
He I do what I do well, which is marketing and relationships and all of Chaz, and then he does the fulfillment, which he's great at. Been doing TV for 25 plus years. His his sidekick Heather, who is the fulfills all helps the with fulfillment. She's been with him 15 plus years. Yeah. So literally when I pass a client off to them and I say, you know, do your magic. Yeah. It's kinda like when I have to do with my sister in my real estate investing business, I know it's done. I know it's done.
I know it's done right. Is it perfect? It's probably not. Yeah. But I don't have any complaints. I don't have anybody complaining about my sister. When she's doing her job, I don't have any complaints my media company that does the fulfillment, that that right there is true leverage.
And that kinda goes full circle with leveraging Tina for Tina's my sister for my real estate investing business and then being able to find Drew and his company and then be able to leverage them by creating another business around, which is 10xtv, which you can see the the logo on the hat behind me there and creating 10xtv where you know, we we get people in front of a 10 times it's 10 times more people, 10 times faster with 10 times more credibility than any other marketing channels.
So that's why we call it 10 x TV. I love it, man. I think that you're you're, I mean, we're just cut from the same cloth when it comes to the word leverage and that you're just giving us such great examples. One of the other main key areas, leveraging key relationships, and you've given us just some great examples of this. And this is often how it happens too. So I just really wanna encourage listener to, like, kinda go a little maybe a layer or 2 deeper into your story here.
What he what Tony said was that he did something for himself. He took a risk. He took a chance, and that worked out. Okay. Cool. But then it turned into something that he could then make bigger for himself, of course, but really it was actually him helping other people. Because of a specific relationship. Because of a chance that he took at some poker game is like, hey. I kinda maybe know that guy. And, like, me, let me go talk to that guy. It all stems from a key relationship. Period.
I almost guarantee you both you and I could sit down and, like, reverse engineer everything back. To a specific introduction. And a a big reason why I do the show, man, it's like, I don't know who's gonna be on the other side of the Zoom. I mean, I know, like, detail wise because we we do an interview, but, like, I don't know what's gonna come after this. Maybe I get on TV. I don't know. Yeah. My point is is that it all starts with a key relationship.
And when when the listener, hopefully, they're they're picking up what we're laying down for him is that everything starts with a person and building value, and then of leveraging that relationship, oftentimes, can lead to just so many other things that you can't calculate right away. You can't say, I met this guy, and then the next 5 years, I'm gonna tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. It's like, it doesn't work like that with with relationships. You just have to you just have to go.
You have to be kinda just trusting a little bit, add value, of course, and then let it unfold over the course of time and some you just you just hit. Would you agree with that? Yeah. You hit it right on right now right on I mean, because what's interesting is I talked to you about not getting help and all that kind of stuff because of what happened 10 a little over 10 years ago, I started joining mastermind groups and and getting entrenched in that and getting help.
Well, I ended up starting my own mastermind. And this guy, it it was is the weirdest thing. This guy called me out of the blue. Let's see. Probably What was it? 2016, 2017? Might have been 18. I can't remember. But, anyway, he would call me out of the blue. He's like, I heard you're the TV guy. He's like, I don't know anybody else doing TV throughout the country. Yeah. And he's like, I'm I they consider me kind of the radio guy. I I crack the code on radio.
And, Swenio, I didn't really think much of it. He called me out of the blue randomly. Then he called me again 6 months later, and I was a good guy. I talked to him, shot the shit with him. Yeah. And he kept calling me. Like and I was like, okay. And then so, anyway, so I started this mastermind Yeah. Online, and I thought of him for some reason. I was like, Hey, Chris. Want you wanna join our call? Like, we're getting to know each other a little bit more.
I feel like you're doing some good things. Why don't you join? And he was the one that convinced me to do TV for other people. He's like, I'm doing it for for for radio. Why don't you do it for TV? Since he sold his business and and it's a different story there, any which way it was relationship. He created that relationship with me. I actually rewarded him really well because he helped me launch it, so I paid him to to help me launch it. Yeah. It stemmed from relationship.
You hit you hit the nail right on the head. My sister, obviously, I knew her from growing up and all that, but that's relationship. So Yeah. I really and the the event that I'm going to tomorrow speaking at Chaz a relationship. They came from another relationship. They came from another relationship. So you never know when you're gonna meet someone introduce you to someone that's gonna introduce you to someone. That's right.
I'm I'm negotiating with one of the sharks for ownership in our company. In fact, I've got another call with the team this afternoon, And that came from a relationship. So you hit the nail run on the head. The more relationships you can create, and like I told you, I didn't ask for help for the 1st 10 years. I didn't care about relationships. I'm like, I'm working. I'm gonna work.
And what I didn't realize if I would have stopped, created some relationships, those relationships would have been leveraged for me not have to work so hard. Yeah. Yeah. I think we could probably just drop the mic, wrap it up, package it to the listeners in a in a nice little bow, but but there's more to the story. So can't let you off the hook yet because you haven't told us the bad decision. And so what what is that, Tony? Tony, you you fumbled around. You you lost some money.
You you something happened to where we can stay clear of these bruises. What are they? I'll give you a great one. I start some, but I'm not sure by heart. Right? So I've I've I I've got some money sitting around. So I'm like, okay. I've done some lending. And someone actually came to me, I think it was, like, 5 years ago. And he's like, I've got I mean, he's a hard money lender. He's like, hey. I've got some guys that that need down payment money. Like, they're experienced.
They've got the credit. They've got great properties, but they just they're cash strapped. Most people are. Yeah. And so I so he's like, we if you lend the money, take a second position, they will pay you a 20% fee to use your money for 6 months. I did the math in my head. I'm like, that's 40% return. And if they do it in 3 months, that's an 80% return. Right? Like, alright. Let's give it a shot. So lend to a couple people.
Actually, technically, I think I did, like, 4 or 5 deals just casually within 2 years. And then someone's like, wow. You're getting really good returns. Have you ever thought about creating a business out of that? And then my entrepreneur hat comes on, and I'm like, no. Let's do that. So we put a website up where you can do all that kind of stuff. And I and I made some huge mistakes.
So we lent a lot of money to a lot of people and one lady who came from a relationship, so relationships Chaz can be bad too. But That's right. That's right. She she was a part of my virtual math mind that I created. So I thought I knew her well. Yeah. And she said, hey. I've got this house. It's gutted out. I need $80,000 to finish it. So I'm like, she's legit. Didn't do a background check. Didn't do a credit check.
Wired her the $80 without doing any inspections without doing any draws Chaz gave her all the money. I was like, it was kind of early in the lending thing. Sure. And then I find and then 3 months later, she comes to me for another deal. She says I can't get title work on this deal. And I was like I was like, why? She and she made it some kind of excuse. I said, well, I'll tell you what. Why don't you have the have them do a title search and tell me it's a free and clear. Whatever.
They there's only that one lien on the property. She's like, okay. So she goes to the title company. Send and then she sends me directly. So I sent it to the title company. I was like, why can't you not get title insurance on this? Yeah. And she goes, what are you talking about? She's like, that's and that's not the title work that I sent her. And so I went back to the other deal, and I was like, I'll say her name because she's in jail now. Suzanne. I said, Susan, what is this?
And she started lying again. And I and I I I remember this conversation specifically. I said Suzanne, bullshit, and I just, like, called her out. Yeah. And then she fessed up. She's like, I'm sorry. Blah blah blah blah. We ended up finding out. She did this to a lot of other people. One person, she took half a $1,000,000 of wiped out their whole retirement. And so she ended up going to jail late last year's when she got since. But, anyway, so so that was just one deal.
Yeah. Chaz another deal that was almost similar. This time, I signed my name to the note because they needed a cosigner. Me, of course, saying, okay. Let's let's do it and be aggressive. Well, because I'm a top tier borrower with the lender, they would allow pictures to be sent over over to them without an inspection Chaz I didn't know that. I thought they were going out and inspecting the property. Wow. So 80 and almost the exact same number is either 70 or $80,000 worth of draws later.
Was taking pictures of parts of the property that were finished. She'd paint, like, the corner of a a room and put a little carpet samp sections there. Yeah. And so after a while, I was like, I haven't seen pictures of the kitchen or bathrooms. Like, you've taken this much money. I was like, you need to send and she kept not I was like, I'm not giving you more money. So come to find out she drew. It was about $80,000 worth of draws and didn't do anything to the property.
In fact, even the work that she did, she stuff. So we we had to redo. So we just sold that property. It totals a year and a half to find contractors to get the property anyway, I've got stories and stories and stories, but, like, you know, so So takeaways there are are due diligence, credit check, relationships, Like, even though they're good, but, like, double check, like, what else would you add to that list?
So I think I think the biggest thing there is, like I said, sometimes I throw things the wall and see if they'll stick. And sometimes that's not the greatest when there's a lot of money at stake. Yeah. So what I did what I did wrong is I I'm really good at creating systems processes, but usually it's along the way. This one, if I were to step back and said, okay. Here's our box. Here is are the people that we should qualify. Here are the properties we should qualify and have that.
Yep. That right there would have been a game changer because some of these people are newer investors. Yeah. Some of the price points were higher than I probably should have done, and it was a strong market when we were doing these. So I'm like, if the market dips, it's gonna be a while. So the properties are gonna continue to go up in value.
Well, that that was true and correct if they would have gotten the property done in 3 to 6 months, but when you go a year, year and a half, things can change. So the market shifted Chaz last year. And so, yeah, I mean, I I think just blending to the wrong people, potentially the wrong properties, And I just got super aggressive, and I let my ego get get get get a hold of me a little bit where I'm like, you know what? I'll figure it out. We'll we'll get aggressive with these deals.
We'll be able to take over the proper is a rehab if we need to now and and was a little bit careless. And so it was a big learning lesson. I I realized that that was the opposite of leverage. Because 95% of my issues were coming from that one business. Nothing else. So looking back, had I not created that business? I mean, I would have hundreds of hours back of my time just just trying to clean that stuff up. But, again, it's alert lesson. It's not like, at this point, you kinda call it tuition.
It's like, you know what? The next business that I that I really get ramped up, I learned something from that last business that hopefully come back exponentially in return in the future. Yeah. It's good. How do you take these leverage points as you're calling them, or are you even just new mindset around I learned this, and I can put it in the to the future. A decision comes across your desk today. Do you crunch that decision in a certain way? Is there a process that you follow?
What what would you say to the listener? Are you talking like an opportunity to to do something else? Or Yeah. Anything. Yeah. Great questions. I get people hit me up all the time that are like, hey, man. Look at this deal. Hey, man. Look at that deal. Even people that I know, Right? And I'm like, I kind of ask I'll ask a couple questions or sometimes I need to ask questions around.
If it's someone I don't know, if I'm really busy, I'm like, I'll tell my assistant or whoever just be like, I I can't take anything else on right now. Whereas before, I would be like, I'll figure out time to look at it. Foma, I did not wanna miss an opportunity. Now it's like, I've got enough opportunities on my plate that I'm gonna concentrate on those. Something comes across Chaz it's, like, intriguing.
I'll look at potentially, but even, like, with my sister, she'll send me she'll send me stuff. And she's like, I need your decision on this. And if I'm too busy, I'm like, I trust you. Make the decision. If she loses $10 because of that decision, whatever. I the multiple times that I did that saved me many, many hours, I've been able to get my time back that I could create something else. Yep. And so I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty strange it with my time.
But if I give up my time, I know that it's gotta be something that's gonna provide something in return. I don't typically take those I've got an opportunity for your meeting. Like, if you have an opportunity, send it over to me in one email where I can look at it in one minute and decide whether I would have the conversation. And if they can't provide that to me, I don't take the call. I just don't. Because chances are they're gonna be like, I have an idea.
And it's like Yeah. Put in writing, but you don't have to have a full business plan. But if you can't put an email where I fully understand it and and get excited about it, then I just I just don't wanna touch it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That's a clear indicator. I I get the same messages where I'm like, No. Actually, no. It's not it's not that I think, actually, we both love those conversations because it's it's it's conceptual, and it's and it's inspiring.
And it's like, oh, we could, like, really maybe do something here, but to your point, when you understand the value of time, You're like, okay. I can't I can't spend time doing that at the current moment. I've done plenty of that for all of us. Let's just let's just be honest here. Both of us probably but I wanna go over to our speed round here, Tony. First question is around KPIs, and I wanna know you've got multiple businesses, different types of businesses too.
If you can only take one thing to track forever and ever, what would that be? Probably income. K. Off top of my head. Income. Why? Because nothing else I mean, I wanna say nothing else matters, but if you're if you're not able to bring money to the bottom line, then you can't live, you can't survive. And if your chances are if you're making enough money, most other things are lining up for the most part. Yeah. Understood.
K. What book or resource would you recommend to a business owner trying to grow in 2023? Book or resource. There's a book called Who Not How by Dan Sullivan. Yeah. Been a part of his just strategic coach before. It's a great book about leverage, finding people, instead of how to do it, it's who can you find that will help you do it, or that you that they can do it. Right? Yeah. Resource. I would say just in general masterminds.
If you if you want to get to the next level, join a mastermind, find a group of people that are in your industry, or just in general business, that feel like they can get you to the next level. And what's gonna happen is you'll create relationships in the in those groups. You're gonna get ideas from that group you're gonna get inspiration from that group. You're gonna get connection from those groups. Yeah. So I definitely say just finding a mastermind to join.
Yeah. And and, of course, I'll give you a second here. I know you've got a mastermind specifically for real estate agents, give us just a half second here. If you've got a real estate guy listening right now, who who's this a good fit for and and tell him how they can how they can find you for Chaz? Yeah. That's interesting because I I started the mastermind 5, 6 years ago, and I was charging good money for it.
And when I launched my my program, I decided to give all my clients my mastermind for free. So I give people a $20,000 mastermind basically for free for being a client And that's another that's probably another probably just quick value add is just over delivering. People hire me to do TV commercials for them, but I'm like, you know what? I love helping businesses, and I know pretty much everybody who comes to me could use some kind of business help. I can use business help.
Everybody can use it. Yeah. And so I just wanted to really create a a bigger community around that. So School. So, yeah, it's it's mainly right now for real estate investors, but we're kind of shifting it probably pretty soon now that we're servicing other industries for TV Chaz we're gonna make it a a general mastermind.
And for those of you who haven't really joined a mastermind, a good master mind is typically a combination of weekly, biweekly, or monthly calls where you can consistently get on with people in the group and ask questions and learn from them and give value yourself. Yep. And then the other part of it is in person meetings. And just to touch on that again, when you go into a mastermind, the I have a saying the more you give, the more you get.
Yeah. Because when you give to the group, they're gonna feel Chaz. They're gonna understand that and the more they're gonna wanna give back to you. And that's the great thing about it. You get the right people in the room. They're just giving, giving, giving, and you're getting back and what you're giving. So it's a pretty cool community to to be a part of if you can if you can find what you jive with. Yep. I love that perspective.
You couldn't have defined how to successfully integrate yourself into 1 and get the most value out of it because I've been part of some, and I've, obviously, I've had even clients in our gathering the Kings mastermind that For a period of time, they don't realize that, like, it does not Chaz it take work. It takes work. It's that it's just some intentionality.
Around, like, the relationships, adding value, because if you just sign up for something to be able to just get teaching or kinda like just come and go. It it just doesn't work. Yeah. Absolutely. There's gotta be reciprocity, for sure. Yeah. Alright. So I got a question for you about family. And, just the dynamic of entrepreneurs today and and, I guess, entrepreneurs are obsessed. I would say that you probably put in that category, we've been successful because we're obsessed.
How would you suggest or maybe some examples that you've given or that you've done over the years at where you can be obsessed about the business? And family and kiddos if you have them, that type of a thing. Like, there's this interesting word that people like to use balance, and I'm just not a fan of the word balance. How do you go after both in a hard, obsessed way? Yeah. That's a great question. So for for me and my wife, we're we're cut from a different cloth, for sure.
I mean, we're, like, I'm very business and analytical. She's doesn't like business and she's very emotionally driven. Right? And so for her, it's like, it's why don't you just take off at 2 o'clock every day and come home? And it's like, okay. I could if I wanted to, but I'm I'm just I'm not like, I I want to do some big things. Right? So I I still wanna put my time in. And so I would work some nights. I would work some weekends. And finally, I made a rule.
I mean, she pushed me towards this, and and and it's a good one. I'm home at 5 PM every single day. That doesn't always mean I'm turned off. I I'm gonna I'm gonna come home, and I'm probably not gonna be present with my family. Chaz happens But what it does is it'll it it it gives me that timeline of, like, okay. I'm gonna try and shut this off at 5 PM. Yeah. At least spend time with the family. Again, it's not perfect. I'm there's some times where I'm solving problems in my head.
So for those who are freaking outgoing. I there's no way I Chaz stop at 5 o'clock. And there's times where at 8 o'clock, I'll be like, hey, sweetie. I've got 15 minutes worth of planning or emails or something like Chaz. I see a knockout. So I I do a little bit in the evening sometimes. And then weekends, I used to just free float the weekends and just jump into my emails, go do something, then jump into my emails and go do something fun.
And it was just like, I never really got a lot of time just dedicate off to that I could do I could just decompress. So now I take weekends off. Every once in a while, I'll jump in for an hour and just be like, I'm just gonna clear out a ton of emails. That's right. So I would suggest if you're the personality that are like, I can't take off 2 full days, which I've done many masterminds, and I've asked that question. Who here takes 2 full days off. Doesn't touch email.
Doesn't there's almost nobody ever that raises their hand. There's always, like, someone's checking their text messages or emails and trust me. I've been there before, but I recommend if you're gonna work weekends at all, just time block a small amount of time to work.
Because what happens is just like I said, if you're like, I'm gonna get some work done on the weekend and you don't plan it, you're gonna start your emails and then your wife's gonna ask you to do something gonna wanna go back into your emails, and it's just you're never disconnected. So if I ever work, it's like, okay. At 10 to 11, I'm just gonna knock as many emails out as possible. Get it done.
And that way, at least I feel a little bit accomplished on the weekend if I feel like I need to work. But, actually, after time, you figure out how to mentally kind of unwind and and not worry about weekends. Now now I look forward to weekends. I still hate weekends because I I I felt like nobody else was working, and I was, but now it's kinda the other way around where it's like, I feel like I'm not working much, but I see a lot of other people working weekends. So so, yeah, always perspective.
Well, those are those are really, really practical things that I think that every entrepreneur deals with. Very similar story. My my wife has pushed me into a lot of those same very, very, very, very similar thing. So the reality of it is is that that's good. Like, the the the stallion needs range Okay. Fine. Like, as long as we understand that that I'm gonna push hard, always. It's okay to get the tug sometimes and and realize that, hey. Now is a now is a time to be obsessed over here.
And I can take that same energy and just do it over here, building my children, building building your marriage, you know, all those fun things. Yep. I got one last question here for you, Tony. You ready? Yep. Let's do it. If you could whisper in the younger Tony's ear, What would you say? No. Honestly, when people when people ask me that question, what would I basically kinda like, what would I do differently? Maybe starting out or back in the day. One would be get support.
So coaching, masterminds, a meetup group, mentor, something where you can bounce ideas off of somebody not feel like you're alone because that's what I did the 1st 10 years of my business. And then, honestly, like I said, TV commercials, I wish I would have done those sooner. A lot of people think their business isn't big enough. A lot of people think it's it's way more money than it is.
And it's something that has changed my career, and it's unbelievable the amount of fulfillment I get when people will message me and be like, dude, the 1st 30 days x, y, and z happen. I had so and so reach out to me that whatever. I actually we just got one yesterday. Someone their 1st week got 18 leads two contracts and was giving us some data behind, like, their 1st week on TV. And it's like, dude, you you hopefully have years if not decades of TV left in you.
And so that's that's why I love doing what I what I do now is because not only is it great for our business because it's an easy selling a no brainer for a lot of people, but It just creates some really good results for other people. And that's that's why I had started the mastermind because I saw I saw my first mastermind I went to was 7 years ago, and it blew my mind.
Like, there are people that are actually coming in and sharing everything they're doing, and they're doing this high level, like, I thought I was the big dog in my market doing, like, 50 flips a year. And I'm like, that guy's doing a 100. That guy's doing a 1000 transactions a year. Yeah. Like, It just levels up your game. So, yeah, it's the those are the 2 things that I'd recommend going back. And and, actually, that that was from a business perspective.
From a personal perspective going back to, like, a young me Yeah. I would be I would probably say it's all gonna work out. Always works out. No matter what happens, doesn't matter how bad a day you have, how bad a year you have. Things happen. I even just 4 years ago. Like, I thought my flipping business was gonna kinda cave because we just had a ton of competition come in in our market. And we took a dip for a little while, and it was scary. We had a lot of people had bunch of people go.
Yeah. And I found I thought I was gonna go back to the same position I was in, you know, 10 years ago where I fire everybody. And and it was it was a low for about 6 to 12 months, and we figured out how to get skinny. We let some people go. We you know, did some smarter moves and we're back back to where we were before, but it it all works out no matter what. It just all works out. I love that. Tony, you've been incredible.
You you gave just a little bit of information earlier how we can find you, but how can the listener, number 1, if they wanna be or, I guess, if they wanna hire you to get on TV, which then also might give them access to your mastermind, but or if they just finished a business owner, they wanna reach out to you, not not to share an idea because we already established, don't do Chaz. But if they wanted to reach out to you strategically to be able to collaborate with you, how can they do that?
Yeah. So if you're looking for TV, I would go to 10xtv.c0not.combut.c0tenxtv.c. If you wanna check out some of the other stuff I'm doing and, I think there's a way to maybe message me there. You can go to my website tonyhobbier.com. My system will heavily screen. No. I'm just kidding. Good. Kenny, but not kidding. Now reach out to me. I mean, if if it if it's seems like a good fit for us to to talk about and collaborate on something my my assistant will pass it on to me, but I do.
I got him on the show, so he's not that hard to get ahold of my skin. What's that? Said I got you here on the show. So Yeah. Yeah. After I mean, you paid me a lot of money. You know? But so now yeah. Yeah. Go go check my stuff out. If you wanna reach out to me, if it if it feels right, I'll respond and, we can do some business together. But, yeah, I love I love relationships.
So if it's if it's something Again, I I think I think the biggest thing is you can tell when someone's just trying to get something from you and they don't really it's like they don't really care to give back. So, anytime you reach out to someone, try and figure out how to make it a win win for them rather than just trying to trying to get something from them. That's right. That's good. Good coaching there for the for the listener. So, Tony, we just appreciate your time.
Thank you for being here. You gave selflessly. And for that, I am appreciative, even on behalf of my audience. So you. Again, blessings on your family, your businesses, all that you're doing in 2023, all the entrepreneurs and business owners, and investors that you're touching and bringing value thank you for being here. Thanks for having me on, man. Thanks for doing what you do too. Thank you for listening to gathering the Kings today.
I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
What I have realized, not only in my own journey, from multiple businesses and multiple different industries and now interviewing literally over 2 or 300 other very full 7, 8, and 9 figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings literally exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe. That in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you sharp qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com.
Take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.