On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. Can't recreate authenticity. It's by nature, it's that's what it is. It's real. And I think that as our society grows and how our interactions grow, that authenticity will be, you know, the scarce commodity You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars from business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be.
We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the real of the real on what it takes to build a successful business today. We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along the way that give a true and accurate picture of the journey of success and how you too can get there. Through this dialogue, you will learn the value of growing your network and surrounding yourself with power players and kings like today's guest.
Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in. What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz. Wolfe gathering the king's podcast today. I've got Gary riding on the king stage. My brother. How you doing? Hey, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. It's humbling to be a part of your, your podcast. Got some great people on here and pretty excited to be a part of it. I appreciate that, man. You know, we we just had a little off off air conversation about, like, hey.
How do you these are some really great people. How do you find these people? I was like, man, there's a strategy involved. Obviously, you're a fellow sales guy. You know how to prospect, but the reality here is that we we have to sift, man. We want good quality people. That's why you're here on the show not to automatically toot your horn, but I'm excited for this conversation.
I know that inside of your business as well as a new business that you're gonna be talking about here gonna have a lot of commonality. We're gonna bring a lot of value here to the listener, so I'm excited for that. Gary, why don't you tell us your main business and then also tell us what you're what you're starting up? So I am in the remodeling business we work with. You know, we do home improvements. Currently, I operate a concrete coatings business called Symphony Concrete Coatings.
And we also own a Symphony Home Improvement company, which is mostly focused on replacement windows and that sort of thing. We are a sales and marketing company. We just kinda happen to sell concrete coatings. So, pretty proud of it. This year, we're launching another company called The Roding Consulting Group, where we'll be working with different home improvement companies to help them learn about the process for sales and work on their companies and getting better at sales and marketing.
Love it. Yeah. And to your point, you know, you have a sales and marketing machine. That means you can sell anything as long as you understand the process, and it sounds like you've figured that one out. It's the same thing, you know, just a couple of months ago. Same thing. I have a a remodeling company and but we also are on the real estate investing side.
It's the same machine lead to work the lead, to sales appointment, to estimate, or a proposal to close the deal, Whether you sell the project on the end or or sell the home, it doesn't really matter. It's the same machine. So I'm excited to get into that. I hear with you today. Before we do any of that and hear a little about your story, I wanna know, like, what pushes you? You're obviously, you know, multiple companies, starting even a brand new baby here.
Why are you pushing even at this level of success? You know, there really isn't an end. There's no, like, you don't just get there. There's no, like, finish line. You just gotta keep going for it. And, if you could do one thing well, why would you do another thing well? You know, there's a lot of things that drive my desire to be successful and to die desire to grow.
And, you know, my wife kind of teases me that's, like, it's never good enough, right, even when it's good, even when we achieve something, even when we get to pop the champagne Right. It's still I'm still thinking like, well, could have been just a little bit better if I had done this. If I had made this choice, or done it this way. It could have been just a little bit better. And it's not that I'm ungrateful.
I'm so grateful for the things that are positive, but that desire to, like, just I just wanna make something good, you know. I just wanna create something that didn't exist before that is good. I wanna create a little bit of a legacy Yeah. And, you know, a lot of that comes from motivations where, you know, I really desire to control my life. Right? I don't want other people or people who don't have my best interest at heart to be the ones at the steering wheel.
I wanna be the one at the steering wheel because I believe that I can drive us to the right location. Yeah. And I think when it really comes down to it, most people, they They're not out to get you, but they're gonna make decisions that benefit themselves the most. And when my family and, you know, my kids and my employees my all my friends and, you know, all those people are relying on me. I just don't wanna depend on someone else to do what's right for us, if that makes sense.
So, you know, it's all about making sure that I can do the right thing for the flock and tend to flock properly. I love that perspective. You know, that's a big part of that. And Yeah. Ultimately, I love leadership. You know, it's not being the leader is not about being the number one guy. It's not about being the best. You don't you don't get given Yeah. The title of leader. You earn Chaz. And Yeah.
That comes through having your your best interests, having your people's best interests at heart. You know, it's pretty, pretty important. And I think that I kind of don't trust other people to do that. So, you know, I want I wanna be the one that's gonna do the right So, you know, what do they say? Be the change you wanna see? And that's how I try to approach things here. You know?
So that leadership is one of the biggest motivators for me where I can help people achieve their goals and help people people get their lives the way that they want them to be. Yeah. And, you know, that's kind of the whole point of all of this is let's make something good. Let's make it together, and we're gonna go there, and we're gonna make it happen one way or the other. That's awesome, man.
The the king language that I've started to develop over the last, you know, 12 to 18 months inside of Gathering the Kings, there's this warrior to king transition. And some of that can be in the actual fundamentals of the business, but what you just got done referring to is this mindset, right, of how a king thinks. And most importantly, it's not about you. Right? How a king thinks is you reference the flock. It's the kingdom.
It's all these other things going on in my business, in my family, in my children's life, in my marriage, in my church, in my community, like, the whole flock You know? And for the king, the mindset isn't like, oh, it's it's heavy. It's like, no. No. No. Put it right here. I got it. I can I I'll carry the weight? I call that I call that the awesome responsibility of leadership. Oh, yeah. And it's not awesome. Like, oh, it's so cool to be the leader.
No. It's like you have this awe inspiring thing that you have to do as the leader. Yep. And it's like, woah, that's huge. And I continually put myself in that position over and over and over again. And I'm I'm grateful to be able to be the one to hold that weight. It's my choice to do that. You know, that's, like, such an important philosophy. Yeah. It is. I got, I mean, I got chills over here. I was talking about it. It's because it's What are you talking about? It's something that you embrace.
And and so for the listener, I wanna kinda just correlate this to them if because it's not all glitz and glamour. Right? It's not like, oh, I'm the king. Put it on my shoulders. I'll take care of it. It's horrible half the time. Right? It's stress. Yes. But even in the horrible, you still like it's it's it's like an honor to press through. It it might be difficult. It it all oftentimes is Like, the responsibility. Yeah. I'll take that responsibility, and I'm confident that I can deliver for you.
You know? And that's That's a Where does that come from from you? Is that it's like, is that in the the in your DNA? Did you learn that somehow? Did your dad give that to you? Like, what? What? Who? Who's coming from? Growing up, we lived in a family that was not I don't think other people experienced this. We live I lived in a sales family. So we were an entrepreneurial family. Right? So my dad was when I was young, he set out to be a he's an independent manufacturer's rep. Right?
But he started his own independent company. It was just him. And my mom was a stay at home mom, which we're really, you know, really thankful to have Chaz. And she was really crafty. She's really into arts and crafts. She did flower arrangement. She made bows and stuff like Chaz. And she would sell those at, like, a craft fair. So, like, just to stay at home, mom, and, you know, not just, I mean, such a big job. It's a huge job. But but she wanted to do more than that.
And she took her skills, and she showed how she could be an entrepreneur. So even mom could be an entrepreneur, which I always thought was really inspiring when I was kid. And it wasn't Oh, yeah. It wasn't special. It was just how we did things. It was just our family. So my dad being the very best negotiator I've ever met. He negotiates at Walmart successfully. How do you negotiate at Walmart? Right? So he negotiates at Walmart. That's his deal. That's who our family is.
And so when I was a kid, a lot of my sales acumen comes from living in a sales world in a in our household. Right? So Yeah. Yeah. Part of this was like Let's say, you know, I I always pushed the line when I was a kid. Right? So when I would get in trouble, instead of just getting ground or you're grounded, Right? Instead of getting grounded, we'd have the talk. So I'd sit down with my dad, and it was a negotiation. It's a negotiation.
Talking about what would happen And if I I found out really quick, if I said the wrong words, the punishment was more severe. Right? If I didn't participate or you know, I was just being a jerk about it. More Wolfe punishment. But if I said exactly the right words, sometimes I got out of it altogether. Yeah. And so this was this, like, trial by fire. You got your first deal. Yeah, man. I had to learn how to close deals. And, you know, he's a great negotiator.
So Yeah. You know, he's really good at it to begin with, but that also means that he's very susceptible to negotiations as well. Oh, yeah. For highly skilled negotiation. So it wasn't just you know, our household wasn't about, you know, just the normal thing. It was all about sales and marketing and selling and closing. Right? And and with the caveat, though, that you can't just say anything. If I just was like, oh, I'm really sorry. I'll never do it again. He could see right through that.
It had to have integrity, and it had to be honest. Had to be real. Yeah. You know, that kind of stuff is a big part of what got me into the sales business and got me into negotiating and got me into that leadership component. Because if you want anybody to do anything for you, they gotta want to do it. And that's a huge piece of leadership is how do you help people see what they is in their best interest so that they do the things that they wanna do, which also happen to help you out as well.
You know? So, you know, we, you know, as a child, it was always about, you know, that kind of a a process for us. And, you know, the other thing that really pushes me as an entrepreneur too is that, you know, growing up, my dad was a independent rep, so he was starting his own business. There's no safety net for that. Right? There's no safety net to making flower arrangements and selling him at a show. You bought the show. You bought the flowers, you have to sell them.
There's no safety in there. There's an investment, and then you have to get paid back. Right? So when we were kids, We recognize that there was a lot of risk involved in being in I knew it. Yeah, Mike. And we were cool with it. Because we knew that if you did it right and you worked really hard at it, then it would work out at the end. Right. You know, you gotta you gotta place a bet if you wanna win. That's right.
And so, you know, that was a big part of how we operated everything is really where we we kind of we kind of came from our family is who kind of build this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. You know? I would say the other kind of area where kind of entrepreneurship is, you know, inside me? Like, where did it all start? So your your first question here, you know, it's about our family, but in 3rd grade, I sold candy at lunch. And I know that's a silly kind of thing, but Yeah. I remember doing it.
Right? Yeah. You did it too. Right? I I've talked to so many entrepreneurs where they found that there was a need and that if you bought, 25¢ pack of, you know, whatever, and you sold each piece for 25¢. You made a profit. Yeah. And that was a really eye opening experience. You sold candy at lunchtime, you know, and there was a market for it. There was demand. There was so many things that I learned in 3rd grade about Right. Marketing and selling just from that one experience. You know? Exactly.
And it was like, oh, you can do this. This is a thing. Right? It's okay to do this. You don't have to get your mon your money from mom and dad. You don't have to get your money from, you know, your boss. That's right. My six year old daughter tried to give me a dollar yesterday, and I don't know why, but she wanted to give me a dollar. And with the with the the most kindness that I could muster up of, like, I honey, I can't I I don't I don't need your dollar.
I I need I need you to put your dollar into motion. Right? Remember, I told you to talk to you how how to that is an investor. Right? We gotta put this money to work, which is everything that you're talking about. And so It's funny how when they do have that ability, even as a young kid, and I'm, I know you've got a couple of young ones as well. You're probably teaching them the same thing, but there's this there's this hustle. There's this, like you said, eye opening perspective of like, Wolfe.
If I if I do that that many times, And then I hit repeat. Oh, like, this could get interesting really fast, but isn't that business? Like, isn't that what keeps us in the Chaz, as you said earlier? Like, that we're never done? It's just, like, what if I did this? What if I did that? What if I did this and then that? You know? I think motivating that instinctual thought, right, there's an instinct about how do I make all this stuff work. Yeah. Right. How does business work?
How does how do if I do this, what will happen? Right? And motivating that instinct in your kids is like such an important thing. They're problem solving. How do they how do they monetize homework? You know what I mean? Like That's right. That's right. You know, in in figuring that stuff out, those things last with them far beyond, you know, they they're they stay with you. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine you and me in, let's say, high school with Chaz GPT as our friend, Oh my god.
Right? I I would I would have a whole business associate around out. Like, I I would have been my own client. I was already trying to be resourceful and trying to figure out what happened in the book or what what book report I needed to write, right, that maybe Susie could have written for me or something. You know? Yeah. You know, that's gonna revolutionize every single thing. But the thing is is, you know, AIs and all that stuff. That's the future of where we're going with everything.
Yeah. But that's not gonna replace entrepreneurship or or SAS. Yeah. It can't. It can't. There just isn't a way to do that. No matter how good it gets, and I think that that's one of the things that's exciting about our sales business to is that it's like, you can't replace this. This isn't this is about this is a human experience. Yep. In one form or another, it's always gonna be that way. Exactly. You know?
Yeah. And I think that's where you and I, especially when it comes to maybe sales process or even sales mindset, really align.
We talked about this a lot before we hit the recording button, but you know, when you can when you can develop a human experience or when when you understand that it's a human experience, then you develop a process that mirrors the human experience and very similar to what you said with your with your dad, if it's not a matter of necessarily saying the right thing at the right time.
However, there is an equation to tonality and what you're doing through the process and you don't do certain things before others because you lead people to the ability to to be able to get the deal. But but the human experience part is the it's good for them. It's not like I'm getting over on them. I'm actually helping them get what they want. I'm helping them remove themselves out of the way so they actually get what they want. There's there's an authentic good Salesforce does.
There's an authenticity component to it as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, you you can't recreate authenticity. It's by nature, it's that's what it is. It's real. And I think that as our society grows and how our interactions grow, that authenticity will be you know, the scarce commodity. That will be the thing that people are seeking out. You know, you can't leave that. That's the most important part.
That human connection, we try to distance ourselves so much but that human connection is the thing that matters. You know, and that's that's one of the core pieces of being a great leader and being great at sales. And marketing is how do you make an authentic connection to people? Yeah. That's true. Important for sure. So true. Okay. Well, let's go into your journey here.
You've given us a little bit of the backdrop in story, but give us a little bit more about this specific business, this, home remodeling, this coding business. Like, how did you become an entrepreneur to begin with? Well, So, you know, as far as, like, how did I get into the business? I was a musician, and we had a band. We played New York and played some clubs and fun. And, you know, you can't pay the bills getting paid in beer, though. You know? Nope. And it was great.
And I learned something really, really important as a musician. I learned how to practice learned how to rehearse. Yeah. And I also learned this really, like, crazy thing called the pursuit of perfection. This idea that you're trying to get somewhere great, and the best you can ever do, if you put a 100% effort in, you can get halfway between where you are, and perfect, and that's always true.
You know, even at the very highest level, you know, when you're nearly perfect, you can only get halfway to perfect. Right? So Right. The concept here of trying, though, like, actually trying, not saying I'm good enough. Yeah. I'm better than all of my peer group. That's not good enough. You're trying to get better than that. And even when you're, you know, at a high level, those are very small gains.
Yeah. Well, those small gains take every single ounce of effort to get there, and it's worth it. So I learned some of the stuff. I was not a great musician, but I tried hard and I loved it. I was very passionate about it. And I got into a situation where I was just deciding I'm gonna get married. I'm gonna start my family I'm gonna do whatever. I'm gonna go find the the highest paying job that will hire a musician. Right? That's not you know what I'm saying?
So found myself talking to a guy about a replacement window company. Okay. And he was like, come in here, save the script. Yeah. And you'll make a 100,000 bucks. And I was Oh, man. I would do anything to make a hundred thousand bucks. So I didn't really believe I thought I was really skeptical. I was like, there's no way. Right? It's not the position just nowhere close. Yeah. The most I'd ever made was, like, $25,000 a year. Like, so but I always knew I had sales acumen.
I knew I'd be good at sales. And I said, okay. Let's let's give it a shot. Commission only too. I mean, talk about risk. Right? So I wanna make money at totally commission based, you know, no no safety net at all. Alright. Let's go for it. What's the worst that can happen? Because I went in there. I learned my process. I made $10,000 the 1st week. Wow. And I was like, let's do this. I think I could do this. Yeah. I can do it. And so real important, though, is I had a lot of success up front.
And then 3, 4 months in, I completely failed. Disaster. Alright? Like, almost 0 sales for the month. K. Was that seasonal? Was that the lead sources? Was that all these other things? Could have been. Doesn't matter. I took on ownership and responsibility, and I went, how come I was selling so much in the spring, but I'm not selling so much in the summer? And it must be something that I'm doing. And I went, and I was lucky to have a great sales manager who was like, yeah.
Well, take responsibility, figure out what's wrong, and then fix it. And so I went back to the drawing board. I stopped thinking that I was great at sales. I started thinking that the system that I was doing was what got me to be great sales. Yep. So I went back to the system. I started learning that stuff again. And then as a result, my sales picked up. That's right. And then I became a sales manager, and I grew with the company. You know? I had the same experience happen as a sales manager.
I got in there, and I was like, oh, I'm the best salesperson. So I must be the best sales manager. Here's this here's this title. You earned it. No. You don't earn. Right? Yep. So you earned the you earned the title of servant is what that sales manager is. Exactly. Yeah. And and, and, you know, you're awarded that title, but to be a real leader, you need to earn that part really you know, I got in there. I thought my ego was through the roof, and I was like, oh, I'm the best.
The best there is at sales. Everybody, listen to me how good I am at this. That's awesome. And what I figured out was Chaz was not a good way. So I failed immediately at that too. Yeah. And then I went back to the drawing board again. I said, what makes a good sales manager? Why? How do I want to be led? You know, how do I, you know, how do I get the best out of my life when I'm working with somebody that has my best interest at heart. And I changed the way that I approached everything.
And I also had to make sure that I was giving people the tools to successful. So instead of just saying, okay. Here's how I do it. I started doing a lot of research on why things work. Yep. And as soon as that happened, My sales went up, and it also coincided with the 2008 recession that we had. And so, how do you get someone to sell the most expensive product in the market. Yep. Alright. During when people are freaking out about losing their jobs and all that stuff.
So I had to train people with zero experience just like I was I was when I got into the business and teach them how to sell when the economy was the worst we've ever seen and the most expensive product how do you teach someone to sell during that? Well, you better be an expert.
And so I applied some of the experiences being a musician of rehearsing and practicing and and trying and pursuing perfection, and I applied some of those things to being successful at sales and not just for myself, but teaching others. Yeah. And enriching others and teaching others to be successful was the single greatest tool for helping me be successful in understanding how things worked. And that to me was the thing that drove me for entrepreneurship.
Like, man, this was such a great experience of getting someone to sell for the first time that never did it before. Right? We're getting someone to have a a particularly great month or number 1 month. Yeah. I mean, that's the best thing ever. And I wanted to share that with as many people as I can. I love that perspective. And, obviously, that led you into business, but furthermore now into making a business out of doing exactly what you're talking about.
And so I just have a lot of I have a lot of passion for Chaz. Obviously, in my years of sales and sales training, I've I've done a lot of Chaz. And it's just something it's a skill set that literally it'll it'll pay you forever and ever and ever. And and and there's marketing, like like, and and sales and marketing are different. And and I know that you help companies with both, and there's a huge mindset difference between those 2, but there's a lot of similarities as well.
But if I had to pick a skill set, man, to be able to communicate whether it be on the marketing side or or through the sales process, it's something that I'll I'll never have I'll my family will never worry. As long as as long as I have that skill set and I'm pressing into it, I remember this is, I don't know, handful Wolfe years ago. I had some individual 101 sales clients that I was working with before we started working with more business owner type.
And this guy was like, you know, what are you reading these days? And I was like, I'm reading sales mastery something something something. You know? He's like, I pay you to teach me sales, and you're reading a sales book. Like, that seems odd. And I go, let me let me reframe your brain here. Wouldn't you want me to be the absolute cutting edge, the sharpest tip of the sword for you? He's like, well, now that you say it like that, yeah.
Because sales in itself, the mindset doesn't change, but, you know, maybe maybe the way that we communicate or social media versus text versus a phone call versus in part, like, all of the tactics might change a little bit, but the mindset, you can always grow in. Do you have anything that you'd share in them? Yeah. I mean, you know, sales is a weird thing. It's an oral tradition. Yeah. Right? It's not like other other parts of our society. It's not science. It's not history.
It's this oral tradition that we passed down from one generation to the next. I mean, I study a lot of stuff from, like, the fifties. Right? And I know that doesn't maybe for some, that doesn't seem that long ago, but I mean, the fifties selling in the fifties and in entire we didn't have the they didn't have the any semblance of the internet. You know? And TV was there.
News. Yeah. Think about how to sell them versus now, and those techniques are still just as valuable today, but that's that oral tradition. I mean, think about how to win friends and influence people. Yeah. I mean, it's still just as valid today as it was in the twenties or whenever that was written Right? Yeah. Think about how crazy that is. So this, like, think about through history, the oral traditions of you know, tribes and different cultures. I mean, sales still holds in that regard.
So the more we can read those stories in hear the stories of people who know better, who've passed down the stories, the better we're equipped to help other people and to share it ourselves and to carry on that oral tradition. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. And and to kinda almost back up and maybe even give you a little bit of a promo here. But as as someone listening here right now and they're thinking, oh, well, I already know sales. And that's great. I was that guy.
Like, not only did I know sales, but I I taught thousands of other people, but at some point, when you're building a business, it just like every other role, it, at some point, no longer becomes yours, whether to be the actual salesperson or to even then teach And so whether that's working with Gary, or not, my point to the listener is is that, look, you individually have to be good at sales. Like, you have to be a good communicator. You gotta be a good leader.
I think you've made a very clear foundation for the listener right now, building a business, you must be good at these things, like, period. It's non negotiable. Number 2 then, you have to teach other people. And then number 3, you're building a business where potentially someone else is doing those things for you. And so whether wherever you are in that spectrum, it's incredible to know guys like Gary who who can either walk you or your team through that process.
And so I just think that there's a there's a level of, like, as a business owner, you have to understand the pieces, the pieces of the puzzle. And even if you're the best person for that piece, you won't be the best person forever or at least you shouldn't be. Wolfe you would you agree? Oh, totally. And, you know, it really is about, like, culture too. Right? So if you are leading if you're a strong leader, And that's great. You're like, you're the man.
You're like, I've seen I've seen some of these leaders. I had one boss one time, and he was absolutely magnetic. People would do, and they would run through walls for him just at the slightest suggestion of it. And and he was just full of charisma. Right? Yeah. And that's great. That's awesome. You can do amazing, amazing things. It's super successful with it. Right? But the thing that was most powerful wasn't his charisma. It was his culture, and the culture of we do these things.
We're winners. We're successful. Not he's successful. Not he's the great leader. We're part of this culture. And that is the most amazing thing. If you want real success, you take that vision, you take that leadership, you take that training, and you've you feed the people that work with you. And so they reproduce that culture as well. And then the culture is exponentially orders of magnitude larger, more impactful, more you know, way better than anything that you can say.
You know, your culture leads your success. And that's a huge piece of Chaz, and that's kind of to your here too. That's like the 3rd component. You know, you gotta be a great salesperson. You gotta be a great leader, but you gotta build great culture too. And, you know, that's it it's such a kind of like a buzzword, corporate culture, and your business culture. But to really, like, embrace it to, like, to own it, that the culture that you have is made, whether you're intentional about it or not.
You choose that culture, or it makes itself if you're looking at your culture right now and it's not what you want, whose fault is that? Right? It's you're the leader. It's your fault. So Yep. Instead of letting things happen to you, be intentional and make them happen. My, I mean, long answer. Right? So here's here's the here's a one real important piece of this, though. This tends to be super good when I was a kid. Right?
So, like, you can talk a lot about my background and everything with this, but My dad said some really heavy stuff to me when I was a kid. He said, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. And when you're eight years old, that's like, woah. Yeah. Woah. Because that doesn't mean what it means when you're 8, right, compared to what it means when you're adult. When you're 8, you think I can eat candy. I don't wanna eat dinner, so I can eat candy for dinner.
Chaz doesn't mean I, oh, I don't have to do my chores because I don't wanna do chores. I don't have to make my bed because I don't wanna do that. That's what that means when you're eight years old. Yep. But that's such a huge thing to know when you're eight years old and look at that through your whole life and that decide that You know what? I don't want to do this thing. I don't want my culture to be this way. I don't want my life to experience this way.
I don't want to I, you know, I don't want to have to worry about every single paycheck. Yeah. Right? And so there's this thing about you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. Well I love that. If you neglect to do things, there's consequence. Right? And I don't want those consequences more than I don't wanna do that one thing. So you have to be bigger thinking. Right? And I I wanna avoid I know it's a very negative mindset, but I wanna avoid the bad things as part of that concept.
And the real bigger concept here is, you know, some parents say you could be anything you want when you grow up. Well, that's not true. That's a wish. You can't be anything that you wish to be. You can be anything that you are actively pursuing a plan and setting a goal for you can accomplish goals is what they're meaning, but just, oh, you can be anything you want isn't really right. Right. You don't have to do anything you don't wanna do is super though.
And the bigger picture of it is I am in control of my destiny. I get to choose what I am and who I am. Yeah. And since I get to make those choices, I'd like to choose success. I'd like to choose positive things. I'd like to choose things where I can impact my fellow man in a positive way. And I don't have to be a piece of garbage. I don't wanna be a piece of garbage. Right? I can do good things and get good results.
And I don't wanna have, a difficult life with my family, so I wanna give my family good things. You know? That's right. So we can do those things together if you choose it. You know? It's really important stuff. The choice. You've highlighted it already for for many years. I've said a very similar sentence, and then I wanna see what you think about it. But I've said it like this. I've said people do what they wanna do.
Yeah. And and so you don't have to do what you don't wanna do or people do what they wanna do gave me not only realization or permission for myself of, like, well, first off, people do what they wanna do. So if you want to do it, if you're saying that you want it, but it's not happening. It's because you don't want it bad enough. Oh, yeah. To be honest. Right? So that that it's given me, like, not only permission, but also, like, a bar of, like, okay.
Well, for a long time I said family was important. It just wasn't important. Enough because on my calendar, it was full of other things. You know? And so there's this self realization, but then also then now for other people, to your point, again, if I understand people do what they wanna do, I no longer have to convince anybody of anything Yeah. They're gonna do whatever it is that they wanna do.
Now that doesn't mean that as a salesperson, I don't help them go down a specific way to be able to get them what they want. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Or as a parent, to be able to guide my children in a proper way. But at the end of the day, people are gonna do what they wanna do. And and so that releases me. It's like, I don't have to carry the weight of persuading you to do anything. In fact, I wanna do the, in fact, opposite you know. So I just I appreciate your perspective there.
I don't know when I had anything there before we'd want. Super right on. I mean, like, so when I'm doing my conversations with my team, Mary, I'm really into this my new year's resolution. Right? So my new year's resolution is to run on the treadmill every day. And I've been doing great. I've been doing it all all year here. I've been I lost £15. I'm very excited about that.
So I'm trying to make a, you know, not a big deal, but, you know, there's a lot of people that do better, but For me, that's a lot. I've never ran in my whole life. I've never been a, a gym kind of a guy. And so this year, it was like, you know, getting myself a little healthier and getting more stamina is really important. If there's those mornings where you wake up and you're like, oh, man. I do not wanna get on that treadmill. Oh, god. I hate it. Right? I don't know.
I don't know if anybody else relates to that, but, oh, man, I hate that treadmill. Right? Yeah. But the thing that gets me on the treadmill is that I want to accomplish my goal more than I want to not be on that treadmill. Yeah. And that the thing that I'm trying to do, the thing that I really desire, that goal, I wanna hit my goal more than anything else.
And so, therefore, because I wanna be able to brag about my success hitting with the goal, and and I want to measure my success, and I wanna be able to see specifically. I did this thing, and I I accomplished it. And I got this result that I I wanted out of it. I got my reward for my goal. Because I want that reward more than the agony of getting up on that treadmill, right, choose to do the thing I didn't really want. Right? I choose that because I want my end result more.
And that's right, you know, you gotta do what they wanna do. What your priorities are Sometimes you're so focused on that little, tiny, detailed slice. Yeah. That slice isn't it. There's a bigger picture to it. You know, being aware of that bigger picture and saying, okay. What do I really want? Yeah. And then focusing on that super important, super duper. Yeah. This this is obviously a little outside of what we normally do but I hope the listener's paying a close attention.
This this mindset, I mean, you can call it sales mindset. You can call it growth mindset. You can call it figure it out. Do what you say, which do what you say you're gonna do. Like, you can put a bunch of labels on it, but it is what makes someone successful, period. And it's because there's a discipline in the mindset of No. I'm I get I'd not only get to choose, but then I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. And so And I want to. And I want to.
Yeah. Because of a greater result, I mean, I want to be on the treadmill, but I want to be fit where I wanna lose weight or whatever. And so the the identity is part of the bigger deal. I I wanna move on to some decisions. We're talking about decision making here and and and the mindset behind it. I wanted some examples inside your business, maybe early on even. So maybe relate to some of these listeners here.
What was a good decision that you made that you can look back on and go, man, I'm so glad I did that. I'd do it over and over again. How can we learn from you? Well, I think the number one thing, it all stems back to this one decision. I got laid off. I've, you know, I found myself in a big huge company. They missed the round of funding, and they started laying off everybody. Right? And then a year later, they got they shut the whole thing down. A $100,000,000 home improvement business. Right?
Huge. And just gone just like that. Yep. And I just like everybody else in that company, we're a phenomenal group of managers, great salespeople. We were a really tight group. And I found myself out in the job market, And there's a bunch of home improvement companies that I talked to, and I had a bunch of offers on the table. You know, I was you know, I'm very successful at leading us. Yeah. You can go anywhere. You know?
And I could walk in the door, and I had a bunch of pretty lucrative options. And I decided to take $1800 out of my bank account and buy a home show. I went dumpster diving for window samples. I called up a a window rep that I knew in the business. I called up a guy I knew that did subcontracting for window installations. I went dumpster diving for the samples. I put them on the home show table, I bought a $80 banner from Vista Print.
I put it up behind me, and I started talking to people at a home show. I set a bunch of appointments because, you know, I know how to do that. Yeah. You know, you don't forget those skills. And I got in front of my first customer, It Wolfe the the business was hours old, really. And I sold the first job for 6000 bucks, and then I sold another one. And then another one, and another one, And then all of a sudden, I had a business. Yeah. But that first decision to jump in Yeah.
It wasn't to test it out. It wasn't a, well, you know, we'll see. It was $2000 when I was laid off, and, yeah, I had other prospects working. I just couldn't see myself working for any of those other companies. Yeah. Alright. I wasn't gonna get to run the show the way that I wanted to, and I decided to just go for it. I didn't have a plan b. I really didn't have a plan b. Yeah. Plan b is like the worst thing that can ever happen to you right there.
Because if you have plan b, you're gonna use it. As soon as things get hard on plan a, oh, I just gonna back up to plan b. It's fine. So I didn't really have a plan b. So, you know, this sounds kind of reckless, even if they say it, right, because I had I had a one year old, you know, it was like, and then, you know, it was difficult. Right? It was difficult. So so we ended up just going for it. And I put myself out in that home show.
I worked, you know, 20 hours in the home show standing on my feet. It was miserable. And I figured some stuff out, and I made some sales. And then I pursued it, and I kept going. And I didn't stop. And then I said, oh, this is working, and I'm happy. Let's keep it going. Yeah. You know, let's do it. And then we grew the business, and I hired some people to help out. And then all of a sudden, it's a thing Yep. You know? And so if you're looking back at the decision, you know, okay.
The decision to start the business, that's a pretty heavy duty decision. And there was a lot of factors that go in it, but the thing about it that was most important was to just go for it. Yeah. Just to do it. You know? Burn the ships in the harbor. You know? You know, we all relate to it Chaz that and and here's what I love about this because, you know, I've had a lot of this similar story on the show. And what I love about it is not it wasn't just one decision.
It's actually, like, an identity of I I continually go all in. I continually burn the ships, as you said. And I think that, you know, as you grow your business Chaz looks maybe a little different, as you go, your risk mitigation might change over the course of time, but it's still the same mindset of, like, I'm willing to put it all in. And, there's just a level of that, man.
I just wanna encourage a listener to be, you know, whether they're just starting out or whether they're running a $10,000,000 or a $100,000,000 business. You we just talked about one that went out of business. There were some decisions in there that probably, you know, kept them from from you know, weathering that storm. So, anyway, I wanna flip over to the coin to the the the bad choice. And so, again, same thing. Reach back into that memory book.
Tell us something that you did that just did not work out at all. Man, that's a much longer list of of things than good decisions. You know, you got you learn how to make good decisions by making bad decisions. That's right. Like, you've you've gotta get you gotta get your nose broke a couple times. Right? Yeah. And so there's a whole bunch of them. But the things that, like, stick out to me right now is, you know, when I first We started having something, right? The business was a thing.
You put a lot of you put a lot of faith and You just think that the people that are gonna work with you, you know, you love them. So you want them to be great, and you just give them a lot of leeway to do things that aren't necessarily in the best interest of the company. That's right. And so choosing the people that go along on the the journey with you is so critically important. And not everybody, not everybody is the right person to drive the bus. Right?
Not every bird buddy is belongs on the bus. So specifically, we had a couple things like agencies that we work together. So Okay. Yeah. There was an agency that we worked to go with for doing bookkeeping. You know? And I had I actually had 2 of them. And now I didn't have a background in accounting. I did have a background in bookkeeping. When we first started everything, you know, I had a little quick book self employed thing, and that was about it.
And then as we grew the business and we you know, had more revenue to work with and we wanted to have better analytics on our business. We needed to really do a good job at that. So I brought somebody in to help set things up. And it was a friend, it was referral, and, you know, that that whole story and liked the guy, and then, but he didn't do it right. So we paid them all year to do this bookkeeping thing. Delivered inaccurate information.
And then in January, we're going to get ready to do our taxes, and it's all wrong. And the accountant goes, yeah, we can't do anything with We have to redo all of it the whole year. So we spend the whole year on him and then another 1000 of dollars to re to do forensic you know, fixing. Now we got it all fixed. It was fine, and we moved on from that situation. But since I didn't have the experience with Chaz part of the business. I had outsourced it to somebody else. I just didn't understand it.
Yep. Right? And ended up making the same mistake twice, which is our. That's the dumbest thing. Right? So, like, this other, right, so I get this other agency. They say all the right buzzwords. Oh, we're gonna do a much better job for you this time. Same story. They set it up wrong. The accountant goes to it, and they can't do anything with it. 1000 of dollars to reconstruct and fix the whole year again. And at that point, I was like, okay, we're gonna do this. Right?
And I found another agency that's been very, very good and had no issues with it. And all of a sudden, I have much better analytics, and I have much better understanding of my spend. And all of a sudden, you know, those places where I thought it was really doing great, weren't as good as I thought. And then there's some other areas that were better than I anticipated as well. So, you know, that was a pretty big mistake, not knowing all of your numbers perfectly. Man, it has rippling effects.
It sets you back. It sets you back. You know? Yeah. It's a big deal. And and, of course, the listener right now is going, oh, no. The that's the numbers talk again. But I know your numbers, man. You gotta I know the numbers, but the bigger decision for it that you're that you're referring to is is knowing how to collaborate, whether that's when you somebody or when you hire an agency or when you collaborate with even a potential partner, you've just gotta make sure that there's alignment there.
Would you would you say now that there's, like, may process that you follow around finding that alignment so you don't try to make those the same bad choices? Well, I think one of the important parts is one of the first places I should have started was coordinating and getting referral and getting, getting some consultation from people who really knew better. One of the places that screwed me up is that, I mean, I thought how hard could it be? I thought I knew better.
I thought, well, it's just, you know, doing the math. I mean, I do that. I did that in 3rd grade selling candy at lunch, Right. You know, if I buy this many pieces of gum, I Chaz sell them for this many, and I can buy this many more. That's super intuitive to me. I'm like, how hard could bookkeeping be? And ultimately, at the end of the day, it's not it's not rocket science, but you need to have someone competent doing it.
So since I didn't have enough of a background in it, I wasn't able to be educated in my decision making. I wasn't able to make smart decisions. And so I think now if I was gonna go back and do it, what I did last time was I I have learned from my hard mistakes what to look for, but there are people that have already made those mistakes that you can talk to Yeah. There are people that you can consult with that will help you point you in the right direction.
And probably have somebody that works with them that they can just say, hey. Look. It's been working for me. You don't have to make the bad decision. Yeah. You don't have to make a bad choice, but you do need to take the time to educate yourself and to actually put the time in there's no shortcuts. The shortcuts are so expensive. They're unbelievably expensive. So good and so real authentic.
Even Chaz you said earlier, I wanna reiterate that point I move on the authentic point that he just made of that you just kinda have to do this. There's no shortcuts. What that does, what it should do for the listener is it should go Okay. Alright. Okay. Like, it's been 3 years. It's been 30 months. It's been 3 months. It doesn't really matter if it's been 30 years is what I meant to say, but doesn't matter how long. It's like, okay. This is a process. I'm putting this thing together.
There's something majorly successful about sustainable process and growth as opposed to just all of a sudden, you know, you're successful. And so I just think that you bring it real, you're giving it right. I wanna move on to our speed round here. I got kinda couple major questions here before we end. What's the most important KPI? Inside of your businesses. That's the one that you would track forever and ever. NSLI. K. Net sales per lead issued. Alright.
Net sales per lead issued is the efficiency rating of your success. Right? It's like it incorporates your closing percentage, your average ticket, and your retention. So it is the most comprehensive single digit number that will tell you how the company is operating. Now That's in our industry. That's not necessarily in everybody else's, but our industry is about generating marketing to generate a lead, cultivating that lead selling that lead, installing that lead, because it's unfinished goods.
Right? So, you know, those are kind of those three steps. We have a marketing, a sales, and a production department. So if you monitor that NSLI, and you have good systems and operations, system standard operating procedures in place, you have good procedures to deliver that product. That NSLI tells you exactly how successful you are.
Now there's another number called CPLI, which is cost per lead issued, that's how much all the dollars it took to generate that one issue that you gave to that salesperson. And the common denominator is issued appointments where you give it to a salesperson. Right. Now it doesn't matter how much that salesperson sells. Right? If they sell you know, 10,000, or they sell 10,010 times. Those are the same net sales per lead issued.
For every lead that you gave them, they generated a $1000 worth of revenue. Right? Does that make sense if you give them, sorry, give them 10 leads to make 10,000 Right. Or they 10 leads to make 1000 every time. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So that is your efficiency rating. And really, at the end of the day, we want high closing percentages We wanna help people achieve their success and reach their maximum potential. But, ultimately, what is this person generating in revenue for the company?
And then how does that compare to the cost of generating those numbers? And you simply divide those two numbers into each other, and that tells you what your your budget is. And now you have to set a benchmark for that. If your budget is, you know, 10% and you're generating a $1000 NSLI, then you need to be generating less than $100 cost per lead issued. If you get those two numbers balanced, Yep. What else is there? Sky's limit. Yeah, man. And that's it.
Now you gotta, you know, those are just arbitrary numbers. Everybody's business is gonna be totally different. And Yep. Nowadays in the home improvement business generating a $100 lead is very difficult. But but that means that whatever that cost per lead issue is, That's what you need to get out of your sales team, NSOI. Right. If you can't change your cost per lead issue, maybe that goes from a 100 to 200, Wolfe, now you need to make sure that your sales team is generating $2000. Right?
And you do that, you directly impact that through sales training, mentorship, growth, and development of your team. So if you do NSI, right, if you do CPLI, right, What else is there? Yeah. I'll boil down as the efficiency ratings. Encompasses everything. I love it. I've got a question for you. That's a little bit unique. I kinda give you a little bit of a heads up before the recording, but you know, we're we're in business. We love business. We're obsessed with our business.
It's our it's part of our family, but oftentimes, we we we neglect the actual family for the business, and that's what we do as entrepreneurs sometimes. And so I'm on this journey, obviously, just like everybody else, and I I've had some success in this area, but I've also stumbled many, many times. And so I'm curious to know what you've done over the years to be able to I hate the word balance, but to obsess maybe over both at the same time. What what what would you say?
Yeah. You know, it's it's like super hard. Right? Because you have you have a passion for what you're doing, and you have a passion for loving and caring about your family. Yeah. And, you know, 1st of all, nothing nothing is more important than your family. Nothing. And you gotta take care of that first. And if things aren't right at home, you gotta focus on building that business first. You know? And it's not a business. It's more than that. It's it's so much bigger than that.
So you've gotta you've gotta take the time to to care about it. And I think one of the really important parts is, like, you know, I spend a lot of time developing and working on things. And the goal is not necessarily to build my business so that I have a good job. I'm building my business so that I can spend more time with my family, and I can deliver those things that they need to have a good life. You know, we're we're a pretty humble family. We're not We're not buying sports cars. Right?
But the things that we do buy, you know, are to enjoy our time together. That's the thing that we're spending our money on. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what we're what the whole point of it all is. It's the entire reason for getting out of bed is to to take care of the family and do things right. So at the the thing is, though, is that the job can't come at the expense of everybody else. You have to have priorities.
Like, if I get this thing done today, then I can spend more time this weekend. And so you kinda have to balance that. I think the other thing that's really important, and I'm guilty, and everybody, I'm sure, is guilty of it. But when you got your, when you got your phone out, during family time. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, you've gotta focus on the thing that you're doing. And if if it's family time, we've gotta do really good family time.
You know, we gotta we focus on really high quality family time. And part of family time isn't just hanging out and having fun. There's growth and development that happens. And, you know, how do we How do we we're playing a game? How do Chaz, as, you know, how do the kids react to losing in the game? How do kids react to winning in the game? And those are all these, like, growth things, and that's what we're doing when we're doing family time. It's not just about playing the game too, you know.
Yeah. So, you know, it's an important thing. You gotta you gotta be you've gotta be deliberate and intentional. Yeah. And the more your intentional with your actions, the more you actually are trying to do something instead of just kinda going with the flow Yeah. And just kinda letting it happen. The more you're intentional with your actions, the better everything is. And, you know, your family is number 1. There's nothing more important than that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's an intentionality.
Like you just mentioned, it we can circle that both back to sales process because if you're intentional, then that's when things happen. You mentioned that earlier that there's a math equation to it, but to put put a little you said something that just really struck to me that you said you're not buying sports cars. It's funny because most of the guests, I've, you know, we're probably 250 episodes in and we're gonna record another 323.
And and I've got, you know, some I've got some I've got some really great business owners inside the Gathering King's mastermind. And I would say that the majority of them, 99, if not a 100% of them would agree with that. And they would say, you know what? I'll take that same $150 or $250 and buy an asset that produces, you know, family freedom or family vacations for years to come Chaz opposed to the Lamborghini. You know? And it doesn't mean that that the sports car is maybe the wrong thing.
It just means that cars are super fun, man. There's a reason. Everybody I like sports cars. Yeah. But, man, you know, you can do what they wanna do. Right? You get your kids trapped with you doing camping in the middle of nowhere. Right? That's another level. That's a whole different experience Chaz driving by yourself or in a two seater down the the highway at a hundred miles an hour. That's it's a much It's a more fulfilling way of life. You know?
And it's not, you know, it may not just be your family. Maybe you don't have a bunch of kids. Maybe you don't maybe it's just you on your own. Alright? But finding fulfilling things in your life that are emotionally gratifying and gratifying to your soul more than material possessions. Right? The material stuff comes and goes. That's right. You know, it's not that's, you know, it's not the BLN. It's not why to do this stuff. That's right. You know, the y is, like, Everything. Everything else.
Gary, I got one last question here for you, brother. I wanna know if you had the opportunity to whisper in the younger Gary's ear, What would you say? You know, my immediate reaction to that is like, you know, what would, you know, what decision did I make in the past that I would change and do it all differently? Right. But I wouldn't. I mean, like, I did everything even though I made, like, able decisions along the way. I needed those.
Those were so important for my growth, and I literally couldn't have done all the things that I have accomplished without having gone through that process. So, like, I wouldn't wouldn't go back and, like, change my my path. Right? Yeah. I don't have giant regrets in my business. I, you know, I wish I bought coin at 10 cents and sold it at 60 k, you know, but maybe, like, yeah, maybe that's what I'm like, hey. Buy Bitcoin. Right? Like, 100%.
But, like, but, I mean, even that, though, it's like the money isn't the thing that drives me in my life. You know? It's the facilitator for the things that drive me in my life. It is the it's not even the reward. It's just the thing that I can use to to gain the reward. You know? That's right. And, you know, it's not about getting rich. It's about doing something. It's about creating a legacy. And so maybe I'd say, you know, keep doing it, man. Go for it. You know?
I think I think the The one thing that I would say would be, be more kind. And I think that one of the things in my career, not to get super personal. Yeah. But one of the things in my career is I put my goals in front of other people's feelings more. And I think if I and not to accomplish my goals, but just to be a better person, you know, learning how to be a person is a we all go through Chaz. Right? How to be in society and how to be an adult.
And I think that in general, I think everybody could use a little bit more kindness, a little more empathy in their heart, you know, even the people who are not very nice to you. Deserve a little bit of a a break. You know? And I think given a little bit more kindness would be something that I would have liked to have done my whole life. You know? I think that's something maybe you only get to reflect on when you're older, though. That's right. That's right. Gary, you've been sensational.
We've we've gone rounds on all of these topics How can the listener find you? So whether they're just a business owner, they wanna pick your brain, especially if they're in the home improvement space, or maybe they're actually even looking for sales training. How can they find you? Yeah. So Symphony Concrete Coatings is our business that we do concrete coatings. We try really hard to do a fantastic job.
We have a really incredible sales team that's designed to give high integrity consultations, point you in the right direction. Sometimes that's we're not the right fit, but we'll tell you that. We wanna get you the perfect fit here. So symfonyconcretecoatings.com. You can check us out there, see our business there. The new thing that we're launching right now is Rod And Consulting Group. Chaz visit me at rodding Consulting Group right now, roddingconsultinggroup.com.
And you can drop an email, and we can start staying in touch for consultation services where we can get on a Zoom call. We can have a chat. We can talk about your business, and I'm working on Chaz. Right now, it's launching here right now. So I'm really excited about it this year. One of my New Year's resolutions was to share and help grow other people. And, you know, this is one of the things we're working on. I'm really excited about it here too. So The website is just a placeholder.
Right now, it's gonna be growing throughout the year. We'll be doing some more of these. Oh, you'll be doing some free webinars talking about sales techniques and getting into some of the stuff that I love to talk about. That's awesome, man. Well, I'm sure there's some collaboration down the road as well for even some events that we'll do. And so I look forward to pressing into that relationship with you and again, thank you for being here.
You were incredible, blessings on your family, your businesses, everything that you put your hand to in 23. Thank you for being here. Hey. Thank you so much. Really been a pleasure to talk to you. I mean, I love this stuff. It's just my favorite thing. So It's all we do. Really humbling to be a part of your be a part of your team here. So thanks very much. Appreciate it. Thank you for listening to Gathering the Kings today.
I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself doing it all on your own. And carrying the weight all by yourself. What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries and now interviewing literally over 2 or 300.
Other very successful 789 figure business owners is that It's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings literally exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. In fact, we are putting together 1000 kings, specifically who are grateful, but not done.
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities, and here's what we believe that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. So if that relates and and resonates with you. And you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com.
I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 kings. Talk soon.