On today's episode of Gathering the Kings. People are searching for meaning in their life. And 1 third of their life is their work, and it generally. Yeah. If you are contributing as a, as a leader in a company to, to helping people see meaning in their life and in their work. Right. You are making a major contribution, and you're gonna make more money. Yeah. You are listening to Gathering the Kings with Chaz Wolfe featuring fellow 78 and even 9 figure business owners who have real battle scars.
From business and life, but have prevailed as the king that they are designed to be. We welcome high performing entrepreneurs to the stage in order to reveal the real of the real on what it takes to build a successful business today. We dissect the good and bad decisions they've made along the way Chaz giving true and accurate picture of the journey and surrounding yourself with power players and kings like today's guest. Grab your pen and notebook because we're about to dive in.
What's up, everybody? I'm Chaz Wolf. I'm your host of Gathering the Kings, the podcast where we bring kings to you like today, Robert White. On the King stage, my friend. How are you? I'm well and delighted to be with you, Chaz. Yeah. You know, I, I appreciate that, you're delighted because, man, we get to do some cool stuff here today and, deliver some some, hopefully, some nuggets to some people listening and who are hungry. They wanna grow and change, and I know that's what we're both about.
So, anxious to dive in. But before we do that, Robert, tell us what kind of business that you have? Well, I've spent most of my life, founding and leading 3, training companies to high impact experiential learning for executives. And, today, I, I work, with executives directly as a mentor. And a coach as a as a business adviser. Love that. Well, we're gonna be able to pull all the nuggets from you today. We're gonna get them all in one podcast now. I'm gonna sure try.
But in all seriousness for the listener, I want you guys to pay close attention. Decades of experience and, and and coaching coming at you here in a hot second. So before we dive into your history and maybe some nuggets you can give to listener, Robert. I wanna know why. Like, even at this stage in the game, you've you've had success years, decades of success. You don't have to do any of this. You don't have to be here today. Why?
Well, I, had this incredible experience in my late twenties of of one of the early human potential movement trainings. It sounds like a cliche all these years later, but it changed my life for the better. So part of it is that I've operated for years, and there are now a 1,300,000 graduates of these programs from, companies that I found it led. But what has fueled that for me, first of all, was my own personal experience.
Of of going from struggle and guilt and shame and a whole bunch of negative self talk into living on a fifteen thousand square foot house on seventy six acres in Aspen, and, and, having my own jet, and, you know, all of those symbols of success. Yeah. I like sharing that. I really enjoy it. I know there are people that that yearn for the beach or something like that. You know, it's just not me. I love being with people with the executives that I work with.
I love sharing their struggles and their wins. I love all of that. It just, invigorates me. And, and also I've got a, I've got a personal project I'm working on in terms of, of, a trust that I'm funding. So there's, there are a bunch of reasons for doing it. All of them are, are good. Yeah. I mean, along with all the frustrations of running a business and, working with clients and all that, overall, it's just it's life affirming for me.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's just so good because, I mean, there's like you said, you have this revelation when you're in your twenties. Obviously not in your twenties now, but there's these moments that we have of, like, re upping, you know, like, oh, this is why I'm doing this. And so it gives you a new a new perspective, a fueling of sorts, you know, to dive back in again and to kinda re sign back up to the greater purpose. And maybe we have a a a clear vision of what the greater services.
And so it's just, for me, at least, it's really encouraging to know someone with, at your level, with with the history that you've had. To be able to still feel that because selfishly, building a business, doing all those things that you just talked about, even the goods, the bads, the struggles, even doing it inside of our mastermind group, sharing those things with other entrepreneurs, it really fuels me.
And so to know that, you know, I still have decades to go and I can still be fueled by that. That sounds pretty exciting to me. It a little selfish because I like the dopamine hit, I guess. I don't know. What would you say to that? Something like that. You know, when I, I was mostly retired at 46 when I moved to Aspen from Asia. And, you know, and I had wonderful friendships and ski day, day, day's a year and, flew around on my own plane and stuff like that. It was wonderful.
I remarried and had, 4 wonderful children, 2 birth children, 2 adopted children, And everything was just wonderful, and I started waking up. And I, that's way beyond anything I ever dreamed of growing up in in poverty and on the wrong side of the tracks in in Green Bay, Wisconsin, I never imagined a life like Chaz. And and I'm living it.
And I started waking up with this nagging thought that god was not done with me yet, Chaz there was something that I was supposed to be contributing, and I hadn't contributed it. And I tried to push it away, frankly. You know, you know, in talking with people about faith, I it's interesting. The number of people that are like me, they don't. When god when god speaks or indicates things or however you wanna say Chaz, that we avoid it and push it away. And that's what I did for for a long time.
And then and I kinda woke up one morning and met. Oh, okay. Uh-uh. I get it. Yeah. There's some there's some there's some things here I need to do. Exactly. And I would and I would I would parlay that right into isn't that how we deal with most things, whether it's, like you said, god talking to us about something spiritual in our life, or whether it's something that we know we need to do in our family or in our business. We know what we need to do.
We know that it's time to level up It's probably why the listener is listening right now, or, like you said, someone who who hires an executive coach or joins a mastermind group, like, Gathering the Kings, like, before that before that action. They knew. They knew. They just they just hadn't taken the yet, which is the same exact thing that you're talking about, even on a spiritual level.
It's like you know that you should change or grow or mature or return back to your faith or whatever that that inkling is. We know it, but we just fight it for a while and then a while longer. And sometimes our frustrations climb up to a certain level, or maybe we just get a clear vision or we see someone else, you know, have something maybe that we don't, or whatever happens, this is that boom, that moment where, like, I've known that I should do this, but now I'm actually going to do it.
Yes. Do you have anything with that? Well, the, you know, our our former press Bill Clinton, in my lifetime, probably the best politician. You know, recently politicians have such a bad rap Chaz Wolfe forget that it is a profession. And I think as a profession, he was probably as good at at it or better than most. I don't share his his, politics, but I I just I admire what he was able to get done as a professional.
And what he was famous for was was called compartmentalizing, you know, that he could take certain things and just put them away. In his consciousness and go after what he was going after. And, at the time that I heard it, I thought, well, that's terrible. You know, should be a principled person. And and but then, you know, and working on myself and with myself, And then with clients, you know, I I did this informally.
I I guess I was a mentor, an unpaid one for many years, with friends and acquaintances and our graduates. And I enjoyed it, but doing it professionally is different. And what I realized in doing it professionally is that many of my clients come to me with, a severe case of compartmentalism. They've taken blame, shame, regret, guilt, and even past success and pushed it aside. Right?
And it's it's a in in many many ways, it's a positive quality because they're so driven and they're smart and they're and they're aligned and they're committed. So they push that stuff away, but that doesn't mean that it went away. That those, those events from the past are kind of in you bubbling along in the background or using the computer metaphor. As part of your operating system.
Yeah. And then you start wondering, you know, like, why didn't I pursue that opportunity that was in front of me? And now it's too late. Why why did I get rid of that guy, that woman, when actually they were really performing well? And something just drove me to get to somehow see the negative and all of that. What are these patterns that show up all of the time? Where do they come from? Well, It's actually known where they come from.
They come from your past, from your belief system, even from childhood. And, So that that journey for me turns out to be something that a lot of my executive clients, entrepreneurial clients identify with. They they get it when you you start when you start talking about what keeps you up at night. Yeah. Those kinds of conversations. What's the pattern that you repeat that doesn't work work for you? That kind of question. Yeah. Yeah. Those are those are pretty powerful.
There are things there are things that we hear sometimes, whether it be in a book or on a podcast like this. And and we shake our head, we go, oh, that's good. That's good, Robert. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then there it goes. Yep. You know? And so my encouragement to the listener right now is just to pause for a second. Take these, even just these two simple questions that he just proposed. And you just think about it.
Actually, think about why what these loops are that you have and why you have them, if they're destructive of any kind. And, and think about maybe where they come from. And how you can adjust and grow and and mature past that. Because you're right. Having, 45 windows open on my screen, usually slows it down eventually. Right? Good metaphor. I think I think everyone's maneuver can relate. If I if I opened up just about anybody listening right now. If I open up their computer, I guarantee you.
I'm gonna go and count real quick. 1, 2, 3. I it's at at least 25 on that one, and I got another 4 screens, you know, it's like the jeez. How can you even do all this? But okay. So, Robert, let's go practical a little bit here. Let's go, I'll I'll give you a couple different ways you can answer this. Of course, you could answer it through some of your clients and how you've seen them. I'd really like to hear maybe from your uh-uh personal experience, but either way, it would be fine.
Early on in a business, like, ideally pre big team and millions in revenue. That's where the listener is right now. What decision did you make that was such a good decision? Or a client decision that you've seen over and over and over again Chaz is just it's repeatable. We should go do it. We should stop everything. We should take note of it. We should replicate it. What's that? Well, it comes out of a failure.
And and I've all I I've shared with, people close to me that it was the most valuable failure, that I could ever imagined. And of course, I didn't want it, and I hated it. And I was embarrassed by it and all of that. So part of my history is I worked for someone else for 4 years. That company that sponsored that original training that was so good for me, they ended up hiring me as their president. And so I ran that company for 4 years.
And, the founder was the, the idea guide, the the vision for the, the whole idea. And I just ran the business most of the time. Yeah. And, And the ownership changed. 1 of the owner's side, and everything went upside down, and I ended up reporting to appropriate judge. And, if any of you ever have that opportunity, I highly recommend you pass on it. Yeah. Sounds complicated. It was It was horrible.
I went from working for a visionary leader to working for a probate judge, and I don't recommend that. So I quit. And, I started a company called LifeSpring. Now LifeSpring went on to have 17 training centers in the United States and over a half a million graduate. So it turned out to be a huge success, but it did that without me. 6 months into the founding of the company. We're active in 3 Cities, Chicago, Portland, and San Francisco.
And I couldn't I couldn't stand the thought of going to work in the morning. And it was my company. I owned it. And So, I later looked at what it was that such that that that was true, and that informed my later success, and it was this. I didn't have these terms at the time, but I lived the experience. And that's purpose, vision, and values. And I believe that's the foundation of any company, small, medium, or large. That you need to know your purpose, why you exist.
What is it that's unique about what you do in terms of, of what you're providing? And then secondly, that you've got a, a huge vision, not a big goal. I'm talking a big vision of the difference that you're gonna make on the planet. And that probably is not gonna be realized during your lifetime. That it's that big. And, also, that you are operating from life affirming positive values. And and they're not just on the coffee cup or on the wall.
You're living yeah, with you and everybody in the organization. I didn't know that, but I was the beneficiary of it when I was president of my Dynamics, that company. Right. Alexander provided all of that in his very being, plus his actions. And I just didn't get it. I didn't get the, you know, the I've lived and worked in Asia for 23 years of my working life. And so a lot of those Asian sayings kind of wander around in my mind.
And one of them is from Zen Buddhism that fish did not describe water very well. That whatever we're living in, we don't see it. You know, and, you know, that famous in the sixties, you know, the, great essay. What is error? You know, we we don't notice a lot. K. And that's what I didn't notice.
So I got into starting my own company, LifeSpring, and I assumed that all of the early people that I attracted were aligned to me and with me in terms of purpose, vision, and values, even though I didn't know those terms, even though I didn't understand the power of that idea And so the company was fractured from day 2. The moment I hired one person, because I couldn't express the purpose, vision, and values. I have been the beneficiary of somebody that lived it. Right?
But it also did also didn't express it. So today when I work with organizations, That's the basis of my work. How clear is everybody in this company around their purpose, vision, and values, and, and their strategic intent? I added that. That 4th quality. And, because, ultimately, if you look at what the leader's job is, whether it's a three person company or a 30 or 300 or a and that Mike is around 300 people, it it's focus alignment and commitment.
If those three things aren't present, in terms of your results, things are gonna get not good really fast. Yeah. If people need to be focused alignment committed, then, of course, the question is what are you focused on? What are you aligned to and what are you committed to? That goes back to the original 3, purpose, vision, and values. And your strategic intent. So all of that is just theory.
But in practice, what it adds up to is today, people are whether we like it or not, you Chaz have a long philosophical discussion on this. People are searching for meaning in their life. And 1 third of their life is their work, and, generally. Yeah. If you are contributing as a, a leader in a company, to helping people see meaning in their life and in their work. You are making a major contribution, and you're gonna make more money.
Yeah. Wow. I I couldn't agree more, and I don't I I normally have something to say, but I think I think you led us right to the place of pretty clarity, or having clarity around those things. The I I wanna explore, not not for the sake of exploiting your failure, but kind of because you were vulnerable with that. What did that since you didn't have those? Why did how? Why did that lead to someone else taking it and doing all those incredible things without you?
Well, it, you know, it showed up on the surface as a power struggle, you know, among the early people that I attracted into the company, and that's no fun. And people that you I'd worked with Chaz, you know, the primary person being my vice president at Mind Dynamics became my vice president at LifeSpring, and And, it was a big change that I didn't recognize. And and and so the power struggle part, and and also I experienced it as a failure. I Chaz put all the money that I had into life spring.
I was the only funder And, I sold it to the the staff for no money down and forever to pay. So if things became vivid very quickly, in that I had now I have no money, no job. I've got a a a Wolfe, a family, a mortgage, you know, all of the standard stuff. And, all of that, you know, you can experience that as a an opportunity and, you know, all motivational speakers often talk like that But I I experienced that as a crushing burden, you know, as a and as a failure.
Yeah. And, so that learning about what actually happened came later for me. You know, it came through, whether you call it meditation or prayer or being quiet. Yeah. And really looking at, how I sourced it. It wasn't somebody else that did it to me. There was something missing in my leadership that created that. And that's not an easy thing for the male ego. I'm I'm, you know, you notice how quickly I I third partyed that. That's right. But, it was not easy for me. It was very painful.
And, also, the the fact that it was somewhat public in our industry. That was particularly, you know, my friend, Charlie Kiefer, and Lynn Slessonshire, they wrote this wonderful book about an entrepreneurship called Just Start. And, it's actually the the book I recommend if if somebody's gonna be an an entrepreneur other than my book. Of course. My book is more personal, and and his is more organizational. And and it's it's absolutely great.
But, you know, the Charlie, was, you know, he's a very bright guy. He's got a master's from MIT and Physics. You know, he's just way smart, but he also was an entrepreneur and a very successful one. And when it got right down to it and what what's the and Len Slessinger was a full professor at Harvard Business School, And then chief operating officer of the limited with 2000 something stores. Right. I mean, the these are 2 superstars. And they wrote a book where the title is. Just start.
Yeah. No. It's it's so true, though. And, for me to just start again. You know, that's where the mystery comes in. For me, or I think for any entrepreneurial end, why we do what we do is, there wasn't any question I was offered a big time job. There's a there was a company called S EST at that time in our industry and, and the biggest company in our industry. And it's now called Landmark. So I was offered the CEO job, and I I I did work for them for 1 month as a consultant just to check it out.
And, but it was just so clear to me that even with the failure Chaz I really wanted to be on my own. I really wanted to be my own boss even with my dynamics, it was like being my own boss because Alexander gave me so much space Yeah. To operate. And where Chaz where that kind of drive comes from. I don't know. You know, but if you've got it, you've got that disease. And then then you'd be best preparing yourself. Right? And your background is, you know, I don't know.
How many companies have you been involved in Yeah. Yeah. Numerous and and probably too many. I'm I'm now learning that I should have been less, probably. More with less is the story now, but Right. You know, you've given us quite the picture here, Robert. I mean, obviously, the hindsight that you later discovered of purpose and vision and and having these things in place, even as a small company, you're right. It's so important. And we get we get busy. Right?
Like, we get busy, trying to get a client. We get busy trying to execute the project. Chaz a trades guy. I get busy, you know, building the website or whatever I'm doing. I get busy on the finance side, trying to make sure I'm keeping track of all the the numbers. And, if we do that too long, You would probably encourage them to do it day 1. I would say, look, sometime in 1st year, at least, gather some time.
It's tough to do it, and maybe you could speak to this a little bit because you've got quite a bit of experience, but it's tough to do at the beginning because there's a lot of analysis paralysis, a lot of thinking before action, So I'm a huge action taking fan. And then when you have a little bit of a mess, okay, let's let's let's, let's come back to the table and clean up a few things, add some direction, and and some vision here.
But then you gave us the the the, I guess, the the caveats to that, which is, okay, really what what that failure gave to you is this super clear vision of who you are. What you want, what you desire, you know, and so how my my question, my question to you, my follow-up question is, how does the listener find that in them now without having to go through this huge, thing. And then years later, discovering it, through prayer like you did.
Well, you know, the the the the most commented line from my book when I when I first introduced it, you know, you send it, the PR company sends it out to all these media people, and then somebody reads it, usually not the interviewer. Some grunt, some hapless intern reads it, and they come up with 5 questions. I mean, that's that's the routine. By the way, one of them is always snarky. So if you're gonna do that kind of thing, just know you're gonna get Be prepared for the snark. I got it.
Be ready. Be ready for the snark. But the most commented online from the book was life is simple. This does not mean it's easy. Life is simple. This does not mean it's easy. Many, many people have that 180 degrees, apart from reality. People want life to be complicated and easy. You know, once I figure out it out, it'll be easy. But the great teachers for thousands of years You know, Buddhist said all life is suffering. The existential philosophers say that life is hard, and then you die.
You know, I've been following Jordan Peterson recently, the psychology professor from Canada. He says life is tragic. And our job is to figure out how to navigate through the tragedy. I mean, great teachers have always said that. And you know, I I spent 2015 through 2020 in China, and I was in front of over a hundred thousand people. And and worked closely with 20,000, you know, in in a 4 or 5 day training format. Yeah. And I noticed my I don't I don't do scripts.
And, I mean, I have a general outline of what I'm gonna talk about, but I don't script it. And I just noticed myself quoting two people that I really didn't want to quote. One was my former wife. You know, who broke my heart and put me through a hell and all of that kind of stuff, but she had a lot of wisdom, and I noticed myself occasionally quoted her because she had this ability to capture a a complex thought in a simple sentence.
Yeah. And, but the other person I found myself quoting was the late, and I'd say revered, Steven Covey. Who wrote the 7 habits book. Yeah. And that that that kind of speaks to how you kind of started this subject, which is He said he he made the distinction between, important and urgent. Yeah. And and that that part of his book, I just think, is so powerful. It was so good for me when I first read it, and I see it with my clients also.
That we get caught up in the urgent, in the problem, in the in the customer that's complaining, or the the product that got mismanufactured or couldn't get inspected or, you know, all of that kind of stuff. Or or the key the key person grumbling and thinking he might wanna quit. All all of their stuff that flies at us every day. It's the urgent. And what we don't pay attention to is the important And I like how you language this that, you know, that you get in the business. You just start.
You scramble. You get a few clients. Things start moving. At some point, what's needed desperately is to sit down with yourself and or your team. And it can it can be an either direction, by the way. Yep. Yeah. And to take a deep dive into purpose, vision, and values. You know, why are we here? What do we stand for? And, you know, I one of the most interesting books I've read in the last 20 years was the Steve Jobs book.
And I found myself falling in love with this guy and then hating him within the same, you know, within the same 3 minutes. Yeah. And he was such a jerk with people and and Right. All of that. And yet Yeah. A level of brilliance and entrepreneurial, whatever. Yeah. Chaz is an incredible. You know? Well, there's a video on, YouTube. You know, he left Apple. He was in effect fired Yep. From his own company, something I can identify with.
And he started this company called Nex, N EXT, and which was also a failure, by the way, in in many ways, except that the architecture of next is the architecture of Apple today, you know, in in technical terms, I understand. Yeah. And, but there's a meeting that he held about a year into next, at some ski resort in Northern California. And it's very informal, and the video is kind of choppy and, you know, like, kind of amateurish in a way.
But it and it people are sitting around on the floor on on cushions. It's very California. I guess in a way. Yep. Mayor Steve Jobs. And I highly recommend that to entrepreneurs if you wanna be a little bit thoughtful. If you wanna look at somebody that won big, as an entrepreneur. Yeah. And the struggles he went through him, but also his quality of leadership. Because his leadership of that group is as good as, I mean, I'm a reasonably good facilitator.
I mean, we over a million graduates, and I know something about that. Yeah. Steve Jobs was as good as I am. And, frankly, and Chaz wasn't his profession. Right. But he was one hell of a leader. And and, the way he interacted with his team, because it was this entire company in that living room. Right. Chaz probably an Airbnb that they rented. Sure. Exactly. So And so what you see there is he's looking at who are we? What are we really up to here? What is it that's gonna power us forward?
And and with these radical ideas and that, you know, he always had a radical idea or 2 or 3 or 4. And, so that's I think that's the key is that at some point, and then, you know, there are there are great books. There are videos. There are mentors, coaches, as as ways to accelerate it. Another way to say it, You don't have to fail. Right. You you can head that off. You can get some help. My biggest, you know, you talk about your mastermind.
I'd say that if I had it to do all of it or again, I would have joined a mastermind. Yeah. But I was the lone wolf always. Right. And that was a that was a huge mistake, on my part. You can't do those things over. I'm not gonna beat myself up about it, but in my way, it would have been smooth if I would have had some friends who were, my term that I now use committed listeners. They know what I'm up to. And they'll call me out when I'm off track.
Yeah. That that kind of and I think that a good mastermind does that. You know? Yeah. You know, you said you stand for this, this, and this, but you're doing this, this, and the, hey, buddy. Right. Yeah. Sort that out. Yeah. No. That's good. It's tough love. What on this topic, I just had this, you know, because you've seen, you know, not only just such great success with you, and and we talked about ego earlier, but now you're leading, executives who have success and and also have ego.
We all do. And so I guess my question to you around this mastermind thought is or at least what I've seen is that the people who get the most value from a coach or a mastermind, but specifically thinking mastermind because it's a this this peer table, is the people who let go of the ego and they're willing to learn from different perspectives, different backgrounds, different people of different varying degrees of industry or success.
And so this this place that you're talking about being able to get to How do you how how would you suggest that the listener do that? Whether they join McGowan and the Kings or some other group, it it doesn't matter to me. Them getting to the next level is what this podcast is about. That's why you and I are both here today. And so if if you're going back and you're telling Robert, to join a mastermind group. Inside of that, what's the strategy? Or what is his mindset?
What's the action plan that he takes other than just joining? Well, I hate this next moment because I'm, like, I'll quote my former wife. You know, The answer is awareness is is and she weigh she languages that slightly differently, and I like it a lot. She calls it a higher state of noticing because what happens with the ego is we come up with an image of who we are. K. And we come up with a belief system about the way the world is and about how we operate in it. Right?
And quite often that has no connection to reality. So what you need, and it goes it's like It's the purpose of that book or that mastermind or that video or of going to some training. Right? Chaz is to develop a higher state of noticing of yourself, of other people, and of the world that that you live in. Look, we had, in my in my last company in Asia, 70 full time trainers.
And these are people that you know, that took anywhere from 1 to 2 years to train them to get up in front of 300 people and confront 300 people. Right? So people would say, well, how do you select your trainers? They're all these superstars. How do you how do you how do you evaluate them? And so I had to think about that. Mostly, we did it by intuition and, if somebody loved the training and seem to want to do it. We'd hire them and see if it worked out.
And sometimes it did, and sometimes it did frankly. Right. And I started noticing we were spending a lot of money on on training trainers that never made it. Yeah. So it would behoove us to figure out what are the qualities to look for in advance. And I came up with 2. One was, empathy that people had a ability to get their ego out of the way and just be with other people and see them.
Yeah. But the other one sounds like under the exact opposite and in psychological, in many ways is, they needed to have a strong ego, a strong sense of who they were because, particularly in our kind of work where we're confronting people and pointing out, you know, that your baby is ugly kind of self so to do that, you have to have a strong ego. You can't run away from it. Yeah. Yeah. And so and and there's a zillion example that people like that.
We we know We know people that have figured out who they are, what they stand for, and they're unshakable. Yeah. So the interesting thing is ego becomes like an enemy. I in pop culture. Well, he has a big ego. Well, if I'm gonna if I'm gonna do anything in life, I'd better have a big ego. But I better be aware of what it is about how I hold myself, how I'm selling myself in effect, and to have control of it.
And, you know, the the classic one minor, does does your ego, do you own your ego, or does it own you? If it owns you, you'll get in trouble. You know, you'll you'll screw up. You'll you'll wanna look good in a certain situation, and it'll all blow up on you. But if you own it, if you know who you are, and and you own that, you take personal responsibility for how that go shows up in the in the world. Yeah. That's powerful.
Yeah. I'd this whole conversation, we could do a whole podcast just on this, but just to reiterate for the listener here because I I mean, their their head their head is swirling right now with just phenomenal information. I wanna I wanna just bullet point and summarize the this the ego piece specifically. Because you're right, they're opposites, but they actually they fulfill 1 at 1 at 1 another. In my opinion, the ego is only healthy if you can put it aside and be with other people.
And so in order to have a healthy productive ego that's gonna drive me, I have to have the heightened level of self noticing so that I can see other people. And and I would say looking back on my history, very, very specifically, thinking ego and ambition and the moment thank goodness for me. It was when I was younger, then, you know, some people, it's when they're older. But, this this transition.
You know, we call it this warrior to king transition, but this this mindset shift where it it's not just about me. It can't be because that's all it it only drives me so much. And very quickly, it has to be around, you know, the person that I'm sitting with right now today. The the children and and the wife I was telling you about that I got a quick break with right before this podcast.
The the clients that we go back and forth with on different things that are having to do business related or just because I'm just checking in and seeing how you're doing, brother. Or so many other examples, right, of just being in, that space present. And but but at the same time, having that confidence in who you are, which is identity and and confidence to know that, like, this is who I am, this is who I'm made for, And so we use some of the same language.
I'm I'm I'm curious maybe after the show here for us to digress on some of this and talk about it because the warrior to King transition is this. The warrior is selfish. He has to fight for the battle. He's in survival mode. He can only look out to the left and the right. Maybe. You know? And that's okay. There's a period of time in life and business where you have to do that.
Yes. But, man, the what you're designed for, the king, the king mindset, it's you, your family, your community, your church, the people around you, the team that you have, the families, of your team, like, all these people that are counting on you. And, eventually, when you make that shift as an entrepreneur, and this is my this is my hope for the listener, Chaz when you make that shift, it all becomes so radically clear, but yet so big.
It it's confusing and a little overwhelming, but it becomes clear of Well, I gotta get going. There's so much more to do. I'm designed for so much more. What would you say to that? Wolfe, I'm, I'm I'm blown away. Frankly, that's not only a great summary. It's a great challenge. You know, leadership is not determined by your title or your how much money you're making. It's by your followership. You know, are you really able to move the people around you in a specific direction of your choosing.
And then that it becomes their choosing also. So it's all about results. You know, it and and the biggest truism that came from me pretty early in my career was you can have reasons and stories and excuses, or you can have results. You cannot have the 2. Yeah. That's right. You've got 1 or the other. And in terms of leading people, you you have to look at how successful. Am I at sensing where they are so that I can lead them? Yeah. So that's that that push pull of empathy and a strong ego.
Yeah. You know, that you you've you know, it's the opposite of the so called imposter syndrome. Right. It is that I'm here for a reason. I'm the person. I'm the perfect person for this job, or if I'm not perfect, I'm on my way to that. And I need to pay attention to how to appeal to every person that I that I've I'm challenged to lead.
Yeah. Because they're they're gonna need to I'm gonna have to know who they are, where they are, and how to best approach them if I'm going to be successful with them. So it's it's this interesting, push poll between ego and empathy. And and and it's all taking place in on the battlefield to use your metaphor. You know, it it it isn't like you're you're able to be this contemplative monk sitting on a hillside, you know, smoking dope. Gotta be an action. You gotta be an action.
You gotta handle the urgent. To some degree. But, you know, my pitch is always what's important is, ultimately, what's important is gonna be the long term success piece. Yeah. Yeah. So good. Okay. Wow. I wanna give you a chance here. We're gonna go to the speed round. I'm gonna kinda fumble through a few questions here, but my my question's always, round up book recommendation.
I wanna hear about your book and maybe something else that maybe you'd recommend in addition to, but Please tell us how to find your book. Give us the synopsis of it. What are we looking for? That type of thing. Well, living an extraordinary life is the title. Living and extraordinary life and certainly available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all those kinds of things. Available on Kindle, it's selling about 10, kindles to one hard copy I've noticed recently.
Yeah. The world is definitely changing. And, but if you wanna sign a copy, go to my website, the robertwhite.com, the robertwhite.com. And you also have an opportunity to sign up for my weekly easing, which is called an extraordinary minute with Robert. And I I take an idea that kind of fascinating me that week and a few comments on it. It's all designed to be read in one minute or less. That's the pitch. And it's a way for us to stay in touch.
Included with that is a a 28 page summary of all I've learned about success. So, and that's free. It's shareable. It a lot of people have used it like a book club, that little 28 pager, with their team. But it gets us in relationship, and that's really what's important to me right now. The book that I recommend highly always is, man's search for meaning. You know, the the Victor Franco book, the story of what he learned from having a number on his arm, you know, from, from the Holocaust.
And it's, it, it's like the Bible for the personal development industry my point of view. There are a lot of other good books. My book is about, a lot of some people complained about it. They said it's not about you, you know, about Robert and his extraordinary life. No. It's not. It's the interaction between our material what we've learned about the human condition and success and real people and their reaction to it.
So it's real people's stories about awareness, about personal responsibility, and about communication, about developing a master in communication, So, it's, you know, when I wrote it, I I I was I avoided writing it for 20 years, Chaz. It's embarrassing. It comes back to that avoidance. Yes. And the reason stories and excuses, I had a few as the song goes.
And, but, it it a lot of people have have felt Chaz it's valuable, you know, people like Ken Blanchard, Jimmy Colano, and people that are real winners in the personal and business development space, I've bought lots of copies for their friends, and that makes me feel really good to know. I I've contributed a bit. So I recommend the book. I recommend the free stuff. And, you know, b robertwhite.com, you know, there's a little button to click to get 30 minutes with me free.
So, those are all ways to just kinda get get to know what I'm up to and how I might be of service. Absolutely. I wanna I wanna ask you, one more question before I get to my last one. And and it's maybe maybe more practical than we've been, but, being an executive or an entrepreneur, we have mindset and we have tactics and all these things in between.
And so, tactically speaking, I wanna take we've talked a lot in in theory and talked a lot in mindset, and I want you to take me into actually running a business. What do you believe is the most important KPI or the one thing that you would be tracking if you could only pick one thing? I think it's different for every business. I had 5, I mean, I ran a I ran a $45,000,000 business. And and I only I Chaz just watched five numbers, frankly.
And but I think it's, you know, General Systems theory is something I know just enough about to be really dangerous, but the general idea of it is that it supposed to be the theory that explains everything. Right. Yeah. How's that for a claim? Yeah. And it is complex. And, but what they basically posit is that everything is too complicated for the human mind to to gather.
You figure if you looked at Wolfe hunger, or you look at manufacturing, or you look at, politics or education, everything's too complicated. But that within all of that complication, there are leverage points, points where 1, one unit of effort produces 10 units of results. Right. You know, the classic thing about a lever. Give me a lever. I can move the world. And So I think the challenge for entrepreneurs is to look at what are the and I I I I chose 5, but I think 2 or 3 is even better.
2 or 3 things that I have to pay attention to. I have to wake up to them in the morning. I have to have them for lunch, and I have to re review how we did on them for dinner. And and, I don't think it's different for every company. I'd certainly cash flow is king. It's the oxygen of business. If you if, you know, it sounds kind of rude, but Don't let your tax accountant or your lawyer run your company. Yeah. Don't make decisions out of that.
Make decisions out of clients being happy and how much your how what your cash flow is, if it got right down to it, because cash is oxygen. Without it, you don't live very long. Yeah. So good. K. Last question. Robert, if you could whisper in the younger, Robert's ear, What would you say? To deal with blame, shame, regret, and guilt earlier. And realize that I can't change my past, and that when I get that out of the way, when I tell the truth about my current reality.
I can choose a future, because way beyond what a lot of authority figures projected for me early on. And, that would be the big thing is letting go of the past. Well, as the listener, today, if you haven't been inspired and challenged and given some insight. I don't know where you're gonna find it. If you didn't find it here you weren't listening. You didn't pay attention. You need to go back and review it again.
But in all seriousness, Robert, you've been incredible We will put your, information that you gave a few minutes ago regarding your website and the book, and they can get some time with you on your website. All that fun stuff will put that in the show notes so they easily connect with you.
I highly recommend for any of our listeners who, who wanna reach out that you take Robert up on his on his offer to connect And, and to begin the relationship, as he said, I think that, so many of us, young guys in business are learning that it's relationship and then the rest. And so you've you've displayed that here to us today, and so we just appreciate that. And, we wish you nothing but success. Blessing your business, your family, everything that you touch your hand with.
Thank you for being here, Robert. Thank you, Chaz. Been a wonderful experience in conversation with you. Absolutely. Thanks for listening to gathering the Kings. We hope you got a ton of value today and learned a thing or 2 about taking your business to 7 figures and beyond. If you desire more and want a community around you to help you get there, I want you to go to Gathering the Kings dotcom.
That's Gathering the Kings dot com and I want you to apply for our next becoming a king 90 day intensive. We are extremely exclusive by nature as a group. What that means that we're really wanting only the entrepreneurs who take their business and targets super serious to apply. So if that's you, you think you got what it takes, to level up your business, I want you to go to gatheringthekings.com and apply. And we will see you on the other side.