Drive Time: Talking Play Callers with Jourdan Rodrigue

Callers podcast. If you haven't had a chance to hear that yet, pause this podcast, go back and binge that, and then come back and listen to us here because she detailed the Shanahan coaching tree, including some great insight on our very own Mike McDaniel. Jordan, thank you again so much for coming back on the podcast with us.

be very detailed in my reporting. And it's it's funny because I would be on the road for expanses of time, so I would be kind of dark on RAMS stuff and on other NFL stuff, and I always want to say like, no, it's for a good reason, like or explain what you know, but you but then you're like, nope,

that would be totally beside the point. Of launching this, but yeah, over the last year it's it was quite the quite the endeavor, and you know, a lot went into it, So I'm glad it seems to be resonating with people.

and forth. He's the best, we love him, and I want to get your take on him in general. But first, just kind of the project as a whole when you kind of remove yourself from it. Now a couple of months after it published, what about the project Jordan really stood out to you? Was there like an overarching lesson or a takeaway that you took from this podcast after getting it all done?

on the coach and the players. I thought it was really important for people to hear that in their own voices, and from that, I wanted to tell a story that was very malle to how where you were or what perspective you came in listening to it with. So what I mean by that is it was sort of a roar shock test in many ways. If you were a coach,

you interpreted it one way. If you were a fan of one of the teams that was of the coaches that were in it, a wide variety of head coaches from offensive and defensive trees across the league, and then you thought about it a different way. If you were new to the sport but wanted to learn more, you were welcomed into it and thought maybe thought about it

in a different way. I heard from CEOs of companies of other sports, of different cross corporations, things like that, who also listened to it with an entirely different perspective. And that was really my goal coming into it, is like, this is a story for you, no matter where you're at in terms of your football knowledge or ability or passion,

because it's a very human story at its heart. And I think what I learned from that is just how just how important it was for people to interpret it in the way that they wanted and in the way that they felt that they that they were seeing it

and hearing it. And the various people I know, we'll talk about Mike McDaniel a lot, but it was really interesting because I heard such a wide variety of perspective, most of it positive about some of the things that he said, some of the things that resonated with people, some of the things that I've heard really kind of cool stories about, like coaches in other sports or even at the college level, like playing different clips for their

teams and for their coaching staffs. Because there's so many things that people latch onto within the course of it, and I wanted to make that available to people without being too broad, because you can cannot possibly tell the full story, and a lot of people deserve credit that you just are not going to get to through the

course of a five hour show. But also people were able to pull things and extrapolate different things that really resonated with them, and that's what I was really hopeful for, and it's something I learned and learned for the first time. No, but it was a really good, healthy reminder of why we are in this why we love this sport, why this sport fascinates us, and also sometimes some for some of us, it destroys some of the people in it

as well. And all of this complicated mess is sort of highlighted in this series that I wanted people to attach to the things that moved them within it.

in your works journey. And you know, in part of the series we do talk about what it also means through where we're at right now with some of the poor hiring practices in the league, when people don't have

that access, when they don't start out that way. And I think Mike's story is really insightful in this regard because because he has a different background coming up, you know, socioeconomically and all that, a different background than a lot of these coaches who were born and raised in these football buildings, and he understood early on, by the way that he was trying to make himself valuable to Kyle Shanahan, he understood how important it would be for him in

his broader career long term to fight for access to those ideas and to put himself in rooms where he would have access to those ideas. It wasn't it's not enough to just get in the door. It's now creating more doorways for yourself and then hopefully leaving those doors open behind you.

for how he feels for guys. He got emotion the other night talking about Daywood Davis, our rookie receiver who had to be taken off on a stretcher, and you just you can just feel that compassion every time that he approaches the microphone. And you know, for someone like me, that is really, you know, a pretty emotional guy, like it really strikes a chord with me, and I love

him for that. And you know, he's a little bit different than the rest of the guys around him, and I thought one of the things that really stood out about him that said he was different and the best way possible was the first note that I wrote down here, I'll listen to the podcast about you know, he had this level of humility talking about I think he had discovered something, So forgive me, Jordan.

not going to be strong in. And he kind of, you know, bookended that by saying that there's a humility about you know, the truth of play callers thinking that their play call is the reason that you know, this play worked or didn't is acid nine. But also like I have, you know, here's here's what I did do to put my team in the best position. I'm just curious how that humility of his but also confidence and those two things together came off. When you took when you spoke.

he always like this? And and but but in over the course of doing something like this, you understand that how genuine that that personality is. I think in that example, and then that what you're talking about with humility and what he talked about with like ego list play calling things like that, that was such a huge theme in the series that I think he embodies really well. And that's why I was so glad you spoke so openly about it. And I'll tell you. I'll tell you why.

So that play was really smart and special to do in game at the NFL level, Like it's something that you know NFL play calling offensive or defensive. It's like sometimes this like monolith, right, and now where you go in and you think you know the things that you're going to call. It's why these call sheets are so detailed. It's why they spend so much time arguing debating over

play calls. You go in with your A plus game plan, your B game plan, your C different adjustments, like you go in with all of those things, but there are going to be things that teams throw at you that you're not prepared for. And in this case, you know, we see a lot of times if a team sometimes has to throw out their plan adjusting in real time,

especially in the NFL and especially back then. Now, I think there's a lot more coaches that do this very well as this younger generation and also the Andy Reids of the world and Phil Belichick's of the world and the Sean Payton's of the world are still holding it down. But like I think, you start seeing these monoliths sort of like avert courses before they hit the iceberg, basically

in a much more obvious way. But when the part of the reason why it was so important that he was able to do that, just to change the way that they were trying to their front structure that they were trying to attack them. Was a simple adjustment, but it was an empowering one, not only because of how relatively low he was at that time on the coaching staff, but also because it worked and it was a it was a fix that somebody who again was not the

OC that was not the quarterbacks coach. You know, he was a quality control guy who came up with that adjustment and that idea. And that's part of the reason why it was so important, because something's so small from somebody and I say this respectfully of that time relative sort of significance in the hierarchy of the staff was able to avert the course of the ship for that moment,

right or divert it. And that was super significant. But it also explains how football is because you know, you hear, like, I heard from a lot of coaches from across the country about the show, and I heard from a bunch of high school coaches about that moment specifically, and they were talking to me about how like, that's something that's

pretty prevalent at the high school level, including that specific adjustment. Now, because you have to work with whoever you have so often at the high school level, and you have to figure out how to be constantly pivoting because you're not picking and choosing million dollar athletes like you're got your teaching, You're also teaching these guys in like pe class right, there's no trademarket, right, Yeah, And like I thought that was such a cool Like Mike McDaniel when he told

that story, embodied so much about the ecosystem that football is and the variety of perspectives that exist within scheme within that ecosystem. Because to them, they were like, well, why wouldn't he make that adjustment, you know, but to but to that within the structure and hierarchy of an NFL staff, you know, several levels above and the monolithic sort of qualities of those things, that was like an

incredible moment. But it doesn't take away from how empowering it was for him and how life altering it was. But also at the same time, it totally displays and demonstrates what this series is about. It's how football works and how everything in it sort of interconnects and clashes

with itself. And Mike McDaniel I thought in that story specifically and also carrying that with him and remembering how that felt, but not letting it overpower him, and in terms of that sort of that ego of the victory in that moment, like not letting that forever overpower him, Like I think all of it, all of it at once, it was, it was right there.

Like you are the guy that everyone's looking to for answers, whereas otherwise you might be the one, you know, looking up for answers from someone else.

I'm excited about that because I like a lot of the guys we have here in terms of just who he's cultivated from former players and guys that he's kept from previous regimes. It's a good staff that all kind

of seems to be growing within the same direction. And then he also touched on Zach Seeler's contract extension as a good example for the rest of the roster and how here's a guy that was cut in December back in twenty nineteen, picked up on waivers, and all of a sudden, here he is having a flourishing career at the Miami Dolphins. I like that example probably sets itself pretty well for how those guys under him had worked.

You can all see this, and how they've hired out their staffs, how they've sort of cross pollinated their staffs because it's a very specific personality type and it trickles into the roster too. You know. They they want to see how like every single step of how the sausage gets made, essentially, like not just because they're the ones making it, but also because they want to see and

troubleshoot every piece of the of the process. And so like you, I think that he when you talk about you know, this contract extension and all that, like you see him gravitate toward people who are on a similar sort of journey in terms of that process and being very very immersed in that specifically less so the contract itself or the sort of results itself, but like very very immersed in the why of every step in a journey, whether it's a player or a coach.

and stuff. Through the course of the weeks, I learned the most about people watching them in training camp because we could see the whole practice every single day. Now, the parameters of the credentials are that you can't report

any of that stuff. So it's like the way he knows that, and so the way that you learn about who someone is isn't you know from those things, but it's from when you're at the podium and you're talking to people and you're the cameras are on and there's a live stream going, and how are you going to be and how are you going to treat it? And so that was sort of like small window of opportunity. I think he saw it as that to show, not to prove necessarily that he was different, although he did.

He does quite clearly come across as someone who had that sort of proverbial chip on his shoulder to prove himself. But I think just like genuinely this is who I am and testing it, I think testing to see whether the league would accept him for that, or or the space of those rising ascending coaches would accept him for that.

So I think it was an experiment in a way on his end, but I also think that it was certainly something where that was going to be his window to detach from the monolith a little bit and to really show what he could be capable of and how his how his mind worked. I think most importantly like the why. Again, it all comes back to the why with all of these guys, and with Mike, that's very

much the impression that I got from that. What's what's funny is that you know those are mandatory, so like the the the NFL requires that the coordinator speaks once a week. And it's interesting because that was sort of like that's how it is now. But it's interesting because it was sort of like, well, like why were that's mandatory? So why weren't you getting that opportunity before if you were the coordinator? And it was like midway through the

season or something. He was talking about how he shifted into and it was like he kind of talks about in the series, it's like once once he saw that window and that opportunity to show, you know, not distance, but like differentiation from the monolith of where he was and where most built, what most buildings are. He was going to take that window and use it to really help people understand the way that his brain works.

it was very cool. But we were talking and we were like kind of going through this with each other too. They're like, Okay, which is your favorite quotes and what are the ones that you're like, Wow, that's like tough or whatever. Actually, when Mike McDaniel, he says the word asinine when he talks about like, I think it's pretty asinine when you think that play callers win or lose games. So to me, that's my one of my favorite things because it's very honest and you never hear people who

call plays say that. But also the way he says the word asinine, it's so dripping with derision and it's just like it just melts your face when you when you hear it. And I sat there and I was like, okay, So this is a goal of mine, like, never never be asinine as a human or a reporter or anything enough to where somebody, especially a person like Mike, uses that word that way to describe your work and describe you. Because it was so like it's God, there were so

many layers to just that word. Like I said, it was just like face melting, like dripping with like this disgust. And I was like, oh my god, like don't I never want to hear that ever again. But you have to hear it like six hundred times, and you went through at it, so it's like, oh man, every single time we were like we this is can't do this.

and led to the blueprint in the Super Bowl. Just wanted to get your take on just expanding on that and how we can expect to hopefully see VIC fans you have a similar impact here in Miami.

And it's very ancient Greek like Greek times where people, you know, modern medicine had not evolved yet, and so people, kings especially or people in high positions of power, would ingest small amounts of poison, thinking that that would help them build up tolerance to poison in case someone ever tried to poison them, and then that way they would be immune to these specific types of poison. That was the thinking, right or wrong whatever. But the word is cool,

so I kept it. But I wrote it down after I watched Brandon Staley and Sean McVay clash against each other and practice Branda Staley obviously being from out of the big Fangio system, Sean Fay being so wholly obsessed with that system to the point where he was willing to bring someone who would would actively remind him of his own failure every day into his building and collide with them as you know, mono imano like head coaching

against each other every single day. I mean, they have a good relationship and good friendship, but like that's competitive stuff right there, and you have to be willing to ingest amounts of that in order to build up the tolerance to it in order to use it for himself. And that's what Sean McVay wanted to do. It was a huge impact moment for me. And then you kind of fast forward it and that's actually where the idea for the entire series came from back in twenty twenty.

And then you fast forward it today and you think about how these guys all think and how they all troubleshoot against each other, and then you think about someone like Vic Fangio, who is the godfather of this defense, and how he just spent time this last year thinking about new ways to put people in hell. And I think that, like, that's the next chapter of this I think, because it's not going to look the same as it always has because offenses have figured out different things to

use against it, and so that's that's the series. That's that's football. That's how it works. It's collisions and clashes of ecosystems of people at the apex of their profession, of ideas, of players, and how what happens as a result of that, like nuclear and essentially that comes out of that. It's like football and the Big Bang and tree rings and like all this stuff. So I sound crazy now, but that's fine. I even have my hands

in the air, but that's fine. But like, that's that's what I'm excited about because Vic Fangio is now going to push forward what comes next, and that's why Mike McDaniel hired him. We've talked about this before. Mike even talks about it in the course of play callers about you have to lack a certain ego to do that. And what we're going to see if people say, hell healthy, caveat, caveat, caveat, is we're going to start to see what comes next.

And I think that's going to be so exciting. I might, you know, get a time share there in Miami just to just to check some of it out. But it's going to be really interesting. And I learned so much about the utmost like respect and sort of it's like this, you know, Vic, It is just this this like presence in a lot of these guys timelines, right, just like Bill Belichick is. And I think that that was really fascinating as well.