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A wide Dolphin touchdown time, Rickquel uncelievable, just move by it for a second time.
Don'tknew where he was going right away.
I want to hit that though.
Man, I'm gonna help you. Someone will up on the bandwagon.
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Up myers touchdown.
It's Waddle his sixth touchdown pass the team.
Drive Time with Travis Wingfield begins.
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What is up? Dolphins? And welcome to the Drive Time podcast, part of the Miami Dolphins podcast Network, covering your team, your Miami Dolphins. How's it going everybody? I am your host, Travis Wingfield. And on today's episode, we continue rolling here on the Summer Visional Preview podcast series. We're going to take a look at the NFC West with the great Jordan rod Rigg today, Plus we're gonna hear from one of my favorite guys in the entire team, Rob Jones,
stops by for his walk and talk. All of that and more from the Baptist Health Studios inside the Baptist Health Training Complex. This is the Drive Time podcast.
Hey caffish, let's.
Go ahead and get to my guest today, Rob Jones. What's up, guys, Travis Wingfild Here another edition of one hundred Yards with Travis Wingfield Dolphins Offensive. I'man Rob Jones with us here. I'm gonna go ahead and make away to the field here. I want to ask you, you know, getting here to the summertime, about ready for training camp, but not quite yet. What have you been up to this offseason? What he got coming up? For the little mini break here?
One guy coming up is you know, I'll probably go to Jamaica, travel Viay, go back to Chicago, see family, spend time with them, and do a.
Lot of pilates. Get my core right. I think Politie's been helping me a lot and doing it this offseason. It's kind of fun. It was hard at first, but I don't get used to it.
You just got into it this off season, Yes, sir, how'd you get into it?
Uh?
During the season, you know, Tis Stead. I know it was like emphasized this no doing a lot of polates. Hope, like just event a game and I tried it at least twice during the season, and I fell in love with it and I've been doing it ever since.
To around like a coach in the field, isn't he him?
You know, it's dope.
We got a lot of experience, you know, who played at a high level for a very long time, still playing at a high level. You know, he's just like he just you know, help us see things from a different perspective, help us, try to help us be successful.
You get to slot in next to him and Connor Williams last year, two really good veterans positions. What was that like playing there and getting that staring experience as well?
Oh, you know, it was fun getting out there, you know, get an opportunity and going out there, you know, believing myself.
I know I got two guys you know next to me who believe in me, who helped me be better.
How do you feel about the second year here in Coach McDaniel's offense is going to make you, guys, A lot of you guys take that next step.
I think, you know this a lot of us our first year, you know, in the same offense, I think we get a lot better and you know, I was just being comfortable and just understanding, like what really our assignments are.
You know it's gonna be huge.
Now going into your three here right the Miami Dolphins. So you've you've been around the block a little bit. What are some of your go to spots, whether it's a restaurant or you know, a place to go chill. What do you do down here in South Florida for for fun?
I got two I got two spots. My first one was a restaurant called Komodo No Gas. They got these Waggo tacos amazing and the Short River is amazing. And those spots on Spider open on Saturday and Sunday. It's called Smorgasburg Down and Win. What a whole bunch of different food stands.
Dope?
When what's the best man? My daughter loves that place. We go down and played right around all time. So you talk about food, who's the best cook on the team?
Best cook? It has to be Connor Williams. So we had an old line dinner. He cooked up some food and I was surprised, Beu. I thought he could have cooked it was pretty good? Did you know that he? I think he?
I believe he did some type of cooking school something with food in school. I believe it's at some point in Texas at all he was. I read in his his bio his background like he's like a cook or something. I believe totally tracks. How about funniest kind of team? My vote is maybe for you. We just had to Sean Elliot. He's pretty good too. But who's the funniest kind of team? To you?
Outside myself?
I think Rob Punt Like he's hilarious, Like if people don't understand, like he's very hilarious, and it's like he's just come naturally he'd be serious.
Everyone was just finding so funny.
Has he got you in the nail paint yet? Man?
Not chat?
Yeah?
I thought about trying it, but you know that's his thing, and I'll let him do it. And you know, I get I ball out like he.
Did, I do it. I appreciate you.
And there he goes the hilarious Rob Jones checking in with us here on the Walk and Talk edition of Drive Time. Let's go ahead and take our first break right here and then come back on the other side with the great Jordan rod rig Her and I went almost an hour because of how much we both love this league and this game. That's next on the Drive
Time podcast. Your host, Travis Wingfield, brought to you by Auto Nation and joining us today, is the co host of the eleven Personnel podcast and one of the top features writers in the game. You can find that work of hers and all over coverage on the Los Angeles Rams and the NFL at The Athletic. She's Jordan rodrig Jordan, welcome back in. It's been just a few weeks last talk to you here.
I know we had such a great conversation. We're like, yeah, let's do it again.
I mean, Jealen Ramsey, Los Angeles Rams, NFC West. I just I thought you were the perfect person to get on for this, and we'll talk about something at the end of the show that makes you also a perfect guest here on Drive Time as well. Here in just a moment, but first, let's go ahead and kick this off with how I've done all these divisional preview podcasts. Here the thirty thousand foot view of the NFC West.
I think it's one of the most fascinating divisions right now in the NFL, which maybe a few years ago it wasn't that, but now it is tell us just kind of what you're looking forward to heading into the twenty twenty three season here in the NFC West.
Yeah, I think it if I were to like come up with a slogan for the NFC West right now, it would be very existential, Right, Who am I?
And what does it all mean?
You know, because there are these teams that we have seen for so many years that this play in this division that is so competitive and it ends up, you know, cannibalizing itself in terms of these teams that place each other twice a year and they're so competitive, and that you know, it really shapes really what some of these playoff brackets look like and some of these things that late in the year, and these teams are really fighting
hard so late in the year. The division is almost never just settled so early on, and they're all at the same time going through a little bit of an identity questioning, right because some of them are very much in the window. San Francisco is very much in the window.
Seattle has to prove that it won't regress after surprising everyone and delighting everyone really last year with how much fun it looked like they were having with Gino Smith and Arizona is like, are have you fallen off the face of the earth or are you still here?
Like what's going on? Blink twice if you're not okay?
You know, those types of things, And then the RAMS are in this state of can they really do this remodel on the fly that they're trying to do, and like also this wild vibe permeating through the building that they actually think they're going to be better than we on the outside think they're gonna be. And that's actually like genuine They're not just saying those things, and that to me, I'm wrapping my head around that, So it's who am I?
And what does it all mean?
I think they're all going through a various stages of existential crisis here in a good way and maybe in a bad way for some.
That's that's fantastic. And not only that, but you went through each team in order of how I have it here, how we're going to talk about them. So that's just randomly awesome here for the podcast. But I totally agree. I mean that the RAMS thing is fascinating to me, and you obviously know that team as well as anybody, just because I trust that coaching staff in the same way.
I think a lot of times you have to just put your faith in certain you know, organizations, the way they do things with the coaches and the personnel people. So that's so fascinating. Plus getting your you know, your Super Bowl MVP quarterback back helps as well. And you know, Cooper Cup still there. All that stuff. We'll get into
that here in a minute. Let's go ahead and revert back to my former stomping grounds, the Specific Northwest and the Seattle Seahawks, because you know, Jordan, I do my my division or my season preview every single year, every single summer, and last year I was pretty confident that the Seahawks will be picking in the top five. And not only did they not do that, they made the playoffs and really kind of went toe to toe with the Niners there for you know, three corps of that
football game and that wild card playoff game. But now I think you look at this roster, you might say, you might say the top ten roster, with where they've built this thing from the ground up with a couple of really good draft classes. What do you take away from what they accomplished last year? And is that kind of like a message to the rest of the division, like just because you're down and out right now, like for Arizona for instance, doesn't mean that it has to be that way for a long time.
Yeah, I think they really send a signal not just to the rest of the division, but to the league overall.
And we saw Philly do this a couple of years ago too, where it's like, if you do a rebuild, quote unquote, it doesn't have to be a multiple years long thing, like you could come out of the gate swinging if you put the pieces in place, if you really crush certain parts of the of the year, like if you are a team that now has to really find players to draft and develop, you have to completely crush that section of the calendar and making sure you know if you can do that, then that sets you
up on a trajectory. They can be really positive and so I think it was a lesson for a.
Lot of the teams.
Was a lesson and I know we'll get to them, but certainly was a lesson to the Rams, and I think for a lot of teams in the division, but across the league in general, because I remember the conversations previous to last season where it was like, oh, they're going to finish in last place. The division is stacked. You've got these teams. You know, the Rams are trying to repeat and the forty nine ers are ascending and you know, still don't know what the Cardinals are doing.
But okay, and like you had this, but it was the Seahawks are going to be terrible. That was the narrative,
and they weren't. And instead they not only that, but they had so much fun and I doing it and you could really see right out loud there how much a lot of the people on that staff returned to some of their coaching fundamentals, and so I actually think that that part of it too, That element was inspiring to people and really attention grabbing, because you know, if you have the right people in place in the building and you have the right process, I think that you
can do a lot of really cool things, but there has to be that those those parts of the calendar where you crush it. And the Seahawks have been really impressed with the way they've drafted the last couple of years.
Yeah, you talk about the draft, that's where it all started, right, And I think it's a good example for folks you know around the league, for people like us and also fans that watched the game so intently to realize that you're not necessarily your last game or your your last season, because you know, Pete Carroll's been under so much fire for I don't know what I mean, He's been one of the great greatest coaches in the league for a
long time. John Schneider kind of similar after that really good draft class he had where it was you know, Richard Sherman and Cam Chancellor and Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagging a couple of years they had there, and then he basically did it all over again last year, right like the draft class with Charles Cross and Abe Lucas and Kenneth Walker and Tariq Wollan. IM probably missing a couple of guys in there, and this year I feel like with Devon Witherspoon and Jackson Smith and Jigba, they
might have done it again. So it's it's kind of a cool referendum in terms of you know, how you're not necessarily what your last draft class was or your last regency period was. Like it's a big body of work. I think these guys have proven time and time again. So I want to go into that draft class with
you here real quick. I just kind of touch on this, because have you seen a better class, Like I go back to that twenty seventeen Saints class with Latimore and Ramcheck and Kamara and Hendrickson, Like this might be the best draft class since that one twenty seventeen.
Well, you could see where everybody fits, right.
You can literally look at the roster, you can look at who they drafted, and you can say, Okay, I see what your potential ceiling can be right there. Like that's and I think that's when you can draft that way, where the path is clear. If it's clear to people on the outside, it is certainly clear to the player and to the people on the inside. Now, of course, we don't know until we know. We don't know until
we see these guys play. We don't know really how strong the class is until we actually see it unfold out on the field. But I think the Seahawks are showing us data that says, hey, you can you can believe us.
So like we've gotten our.
Ways back together, Like we've gotten it figured out again in terms of the draft.
And I just I like I like the way that they've done it.
I like how they've they've really found and some some real bright players and and real bright spots without using necessarily always premium picks. Finding a player at a premier position, you know, at cornerback, but but not necessarily in the first round, somebody who is going to have some some be battle tested and have some scars right out in public, right because you're going to make mistakes as a rookie.
But but continuing to hammer and that that faith in the player and continuing to develop them in that way. I think the two things they have to marry, They have to marry each other so cohesively, and I think being able to find, first of all, find a player with that type of upside at a premium position, and then you know, and then they're doing it again.
You see it this draft class as well.
You know they're they're doing that type of strategy again, really trusting you could see trusting the the way that they develop players and the system that they're in on offense or defense. And I think that's really that shows a cohesiveness that I think has Like you said, I mean, it's like the draft in a vacuum. We can give it grades whatever, but when you really apply the class itself and the personnel they went out and found within the structure of the system, they're they're going to be
deploying that draft class in. I think that's where you start to see this is where they've started to separate themselves a little bit.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the idea of hitting these premium positions. And there's no better cheat cod in the NFL than to get a premium player, you know, late in the draft, like a fifth round cornerback like Tarik One I think he was, and then Abe Lucas, my guy from Washington State in the third round, who was a really good looking right
tackle for them right out of the gate. But they also had a veteran that essentially did something at the most important position that hasn't really been done before in terms of like was he year nine? Like a year nine breakout for a guy as doesn't happen in this league.
Gino Smith, I know like you. I think you and Greg Rosenthal on the Around the NFL podcast talked about him a little bit, and you guys were excited about his his outlook and his future and he's certainly proved that right, tell us about you know, what did he do to take that big step and become this breakout, you know, top paid quarterback that he was year ago and going into twenty twenty three.
Well, you could just.
See that confidence. I think it's it's multiple things. Obviously Gino himself and the way that he approaches the job. And you heard a lot of stories about the way that he worked at it and the way that behind the scenes, he really wanted to see how see how how high his ceiling could go, right, and he really approached that process the right way. And then but you also look at what they're running now, Shane Waldron's there.
They're running they're running a system that legitimately does raise a quarterback's floor, and the ceiling becomes so much higher of a potential when the floor is raised, right, because the system and the personnel that they're putting around Gino also helps. And I always I always think it's it's been funny or reductive, even when people have oh, it's.
The system, it's the system. You should have a system that helps your quarterback play free. You should have a system that helps your quarterback feel confident. You should have that, and vice versa. Your system should have a quarterback who thrives within a type that type of workspace. You should your system should have a quarterback who has good decision making, who's smart with the football, who throws a beautiful pass the way Gino Smith does, who can who can make
things happen out of structure. I think that those those like, all of those things should work hand in hand.
And I think in the in the NFL, we get so obsessed with credit, right, and so we are like, oh, who's either who's at fault or who should we give the praise to?
And I think it's bold.
I think we absolutely should give Geno the praise for all the work he put in behind the scenes, but I think we should also give praise to what they built around him and the way that that offense is functioning as a whole in terms of all the pieces that it does take. In the modern leaguehere you have to do so many different things well all at the same time. In the play caller, I think it does you.
You also should send credit that direction too. At the same time, it doesn't take credit away from anyone else. It's just more credit to go around, right, and so I think that's that's all really important. I think the way again, the way they showed that cohesiveness, it was very reminiscent of you know what those RAMS teams used to look like when everything was clicking together and all the pieces in the parts were interconnecting and in the way that makes the whole machine run.
So that's the second place team in at AFC NFC West the season to go in the Seattle Seahawks. Let's go ahead and pivot now to the division champion real quick that the Seahawks also had Dremont Jones thought it was a great addition, brought back Jeron Reid, Evan Brown, Devin Bush, Julian Love, and Bobby Wagner back in Seattle. What a great story that'll be for him to come back and play in front of the fans there in
the Pacific Northwest. So let's go ahead and pivot now down to California and the San Francisco forty nine ers. And you let off talking about this team being, you know, one of the one of the premier teams in the conference and certainly within their window to you know, pursue a championship and almost got there last year, despite going through some of the craziest attrition at the most important
position in the NFL, quarterback. But that's kind of the lingering question now heading into twenty twenty three is what does happen at quarterback? Are they Is it going to be Trey Lance under center? Is it going to be Sam Donold? Is Brock pretty gonna come back? I don't recall a team with this high of championship aspirations having such a question mark at that key position.
Jordan, I have some theories, and I'm gonna sound like I am on mushrooms. I'm not, but I have some theories if you would like to hear them. Okay, so okay, So first and foremost, I think that looking at the San Francisco forty nine ers is the ultimate like roar shock test. I think it's like ink blots, right, because you could either see it'll tell you whether you're an optimist or pessimist. Because you could either see what happened to them at quarterback last year and be like, Wow,
Kyle Shanahan just wrecks his quarterbacks. You could you could be that way, or you could look at it and you could say, wow, look at what they're able to do with literally anybody at quarterback, you know, like it's a total it is a total test, psychological test of like how you're wired as a person to look at that roster and what your instant reaction is.
So that's one theory. My second theory is that Kyle.
Shanahan knows this and understands this and has decided over the years to instead of necessarily thinking about the quarterback position as the position that runs the show on the team, which I think every coach does, but in a way, I think he's actually created a run game that has become his quarterback if that makes sense.
Like the run game is.
You can there's so much more predictability in how you can take concept and put it into tangibility like lot something live that's actually happening, living, breathing, something that's actually being deployed with a quarterback. Sometimes even if everything seems like it's lined up perfectly, an edge rusher comes out of nowhere and hits the elbow of the guy, or you know, you know you you you take off on the run and then you know you don't slide the
right way and something happened. You know, anything could anything could happen even if everything is set up so perfectly. And it's not to say that the run game is a total predictable factor. It's just that with the way that his quarterbacks have been operating, it seems like taking the element of control and the element of multiplicity, the element of here's how broad a playbook we have in this phase versus maybe what they're asking the quarterback to do.
It just seemed to me like that is the way that he has taken, uh the idea of the engine that makes the offense go, and he's lifted it off the quarterback and put it directly into the run game and made the run game his quarterback. And it's it's interesting because I think that that's something definitely that probably will get them through the first part of the season because there is so much unknown. I mean, we don't know what we don't know. I don't think any of
us have seen Trey Lance, you know, rep Live. We won't see that until in terms of this year. We won't see that until training camp. We won't see that until you know, I don't I don't even want to think about what the conversation will be like if he plays in the preseason, you know what I mean, because it's so such a difference of opinion on whether players should be playing, you know, and and so we we just don't know. I am interested to see what steps
he's taken forward. You know, the reports out of forty nine ers camp and it's been the spring have been really positive. But you also you can't ignore what rock Perty accomplished for this team. And you know, I think that one thing about that locker room from Afar, watching from Afar is it seems like they're all already used to this.
So you they're all all the.
Other guys are probably seemed to be of the mindset where it's like, Okay, put someone in there, and we'll rally behind that person, you know, because we like all of these guys, and so you put someone in there, will rally behind this person. Again, because it's not necessarily about that person. It's more about the functionality of the entire system and all of the other people working in sync, and especially that run game being able to do what
it does and really control games in that way. And so I think that that's been fascinating is as things have gone so out of control in terms of what's happened to that position over in that building. You've almost watched Kyle Shanahan go find a way to like bring in some stability however possible, and like that has meant really shifting some of that identity of what they do to that run game.
So those are my crazy theories.
No, it's great. It reminds me of like one thing I always do every summer is I look at each team and think about what the trap door scenarios are, Like what could happen to this team where they could go from potential playoff berth to like, you know, picking top five in the draft. What could happen to the
roster that would cause that? And talking about you know, your theories there with Kyle Shanahan, it sounds like, you know, you mentioned you can't necessarily predict everything, but it's almost full proof in the sense that you have a bigger range of you know, potential I guess for people that input their production to make it more widespread, so you don't have that one situation where you know, if Patrick Mahomes goes down, the Chiefs all of a sudden are
a way different football team than the Niners was in their quarterback and you know, we had McDaniel before. I think it was when he was still with the Niners, talking about the investment they made on the offensive line, even going into last year on paper, like the Niners offensive line was Trent Williams and then five or four other guys that you didn't really know much about and
they still produce at a high level. Then you go out and you get Christian McCaffrey, and I think that trade was more valuable to them than really anybody else in the NFL because of all of that. So it's kind of cool to see these teams that zig when everybody else SAgs, but do it successfully because we've seen it happen before where it didn't work out. But you get the Bill Belichicks of the world, the Kyle Shanahan's of the world, it does seem to work out for them.
And where also I think it works out for him. And this is kind of my next my next portion of my questions I had for you. Was one of the best skill groups I think in the National football that you talk about Adam Christian McCaffrey obviously, but Brandon I, you can Deebo, Samuel, George Kittle. Is there a better group running back, tight end receiver wise than this one right now in the NFL.
You know, in the in the entire league, you know, I would look at I'd probably look at Miami. Just the speed element is is crazy. Yeah, you are welcome. No, I forgot where I was for a second.
That wasn't even intentional.
I was like, yeah, that was really should be talking about.
But like, and you know, I think you obviously you've got to respect the rams and what the RAMS do. You've got to respect the way that they Matthew Stafford and Cooper Cup that dynamic.
You really do have to respect it.
But in terms of the the diversity of concept and the multiplicity that exists right all out of the same the same pre snap looks, all out of the same pre snap concepts where you you've watched them go heavier personnel pre snap, but then they're doing all kinds of crazy stuff, you know, out of those pre snap looks, and it's it's fascinating because it goes back to it's not just that they're great skill players, they also do
so many things. When you have those hand in hand, it deepens your playbook in a way that is an absolute nightmare.
For other people to cover.
And that's why I do think you look at them as you know, ranked among the top in terms of their skill positions, ranked among the top of the league, is because it's not just that they can hurt you in the air. It's also all of these receivers become extensions of the run game too. Christian McCaffrey and Deebo Samuel.
I mean either one of them could line up, you know, split out wide on the line of scrimmage, or or they could line up in a stack on the line of scrimmage or a bunch, or they could be in motion,
or they could be in the backfield. And when you have to account for so many different things, but not just with one player doing so many different things like we used to see in the league several years, you know, years and years ago, not just one positionless player quote unquote, but higher skill group full of positionless players, you can't You almost have to revert back to your most simple basic forms of defense to account for it because you
don't know what tendencies to play because they could do anything. So I think when I look at the ability, first of all, it is obviously there of the players, but when I look at how it broadens and deepens the playbook itself. Again, we talked about cohesiveness that we saw in Seattle last year. That's where player and system match really really well together, and that makes it an overall collective threat.
That definitely is.
Again, it's something that people have to account for in ways that with other teams they just don't.
In one of the ways you complement that strong running game, and like you mentioned, everyone that has a part in that running game is with one of the best defenses in the NFL. And I think you look at, excuse me, this group this year they lose Amigo Ryans. I'm most curious to hear your opinion on how Steve Wilks will
kind of, you know, put his fingerprints. And I think when the whole process of defensive coordinators kind of picking their spots was, you know, being reported out there, what I saw, who knows what's what's truth and what's not, was that the forty nine ers were looking to really stay more into their system they had previously rather than going after a Vic Fangio who might you know, alter things quite dramatically, and so Steve Wilkes kind of brings
that same mindset, so that concept and also pair with adding Javon Hargrave, which to me seems almost unfair for this defensive line.
Yeah, And what people forget though is like when when Robert Salo was there and then also when Dmiko was there, like they did they do play quarters like they do play those types of sort of like what we think now is like Fangio esque before that a little don kper Zy, like we think about those things as like Vic Fangio, right, but and like the modernization of this league.
But you know, back when when Robert Salo was there, like he and he and Kyle Shanahan, like they put in some of that stuff and then started like sort of broadening it. So even though you're like Steve Wilkes is considered to be a little bit more, uh, he's not in that He's not necessarily in that quote unquote Fangio tree that is very very like hot to hire right now and league he also, I mean, this is stuff that's that's been happening, right and so I think that.
That's really interesting.
What I'm most interested in is so Steve Wilkes, he's he's a coverage guy, Like he is someone who that's his background as a DB's coach. I covered him in Carolina. Cannot speak more highly of him as a human being. And he's also someone he is He's going to be the right personality, the right presence to build things because
sometimes you get coordinated. And this is the reason why Mike McDaniel goes out and hired Victango, which he talked about is like, you want someone who can challenge you and and challenge you to think about new things and can present a really tough to defend look in practice
that you're also troubleshooting. And Steve Wilkes has that autonomy, has that control, has that ability to do those types of things in a way that hey, you know, you're bringing elements from the stuff that they've already run before, but you're also thinking about different voids, different structures, different ways to sort of hassle or even just simply reacting to the offense in different ways than maybe they'd had
in the building before. So it's that combination, that blend of what can you add to this that maybe they didn't have and also, you know, running those foundational principles that they installed, you know, years ago, back in eighteen and nineteen with Robert Sala. I think that's going to be really interesting. And Wilkes is a like I said, he's a coverages guy, so I don't doubt that you're going to see some fun stuff out of them. And again we talked about like raising floors. So he's a
really great coach because a really great teacher. I think that was like it somehow went a little bit under the radar that they that they hired him, but I think that was a fantastic hire. And frankly it had to happen because the forty nine ers, their window is now right Like I saw this a couple of years ago with Rams, you have to go now, and I think that's where they're at.
So you have to bring in somebody who's going to.
Immediately pick things up and immediately get you, you know, that much closer to where you need to be.
Yes, speaking of that window now, they have so many veteran players that are just at the peak of their primes right now, and it makes the most sense, like a Christian McCaffrey. And I'm looking at their draft picks right here. All their top three picks this last year were traded to Miami and Carolina for Trey Lanson for Christian McCaffrey. So, like you talked about, the urgency is now Javon Hargave, I thought was a great now urgency pick to get Sam Donald to can just give you
more in that quarterback room. Really right now, the only healthy quarterback we know for sure that's at the time being to Sean Gibson, Cleveland Ferrell, and Colton mckibitt some other offseason editions there for the San Francisco forty nine ers. Let's go ahead and take our last break right here and come back on the other side and talk about
the other two teams here in the division. We'll talk Arizona Cardinals and Los Angeles Rams with Jordan rod rig Today, my guest from the Athletic on the Drive Time podcast, your host Travis Wingfield. We are brought to you by Auto Nation. Let's go ahead and pick it back up here in the NFC West, talking about the other two teams after Seattle and San Francisco and the Arizona Cardinal team, Jordan, that you talked about kind of not really understanding where
they're at in their cycle right now. We know that they've been aggressive in terms of adding draft capital for future years. And I think it starts at the quarterback position, which most teams it does, and obviously a new head coach there as well with Jonathan Gannon. But I'm most curious to know what their plan is heading into the year at quarterback because Kyler's not going to play right away, right,
so is it a pup thing? And if that's what he does, then if they start off slow, what's the you know, I guess the urgency and bringing him back into the lineup. To me, it's so fascinating because I haven't seen a team that's been in this position where they're kind of you know, reset in the decks, but have this highly paid, franchise level quarterback. What do you make of that situation right now in Arizona.
Yeah, that's why it's unique.
And you know, again when we talk about like existential crisis, I just don't think we know what their identity is going to be on the field. Like I think structurally it's pretty it's pretty obvious to see what.
They're doing, like they're totally resetting other than again at that quarterback position, and they're stockpiling for twenty twenty four to really have good positioning, whether honestly, whether it is a quarterback that they want to go after in the next year's draft class is supposed to be.
We always say the next year's draft class is the best quarterback draft class, but this one really is, like this one's really great, right So it's and I think that's interesting. But yeah, in terms of on the field, we just don't know what they're going to look like or who they feel like they want to be. And it feels like, you know, players are smart if you kind of are set up structurally the way that they are.
I mean, how are you going to convince players to play for you if you are setting up the decks, you know, structurally the way that you clearly are. On the other side of it, what's the messaging?
You know?
They they had some friction in that NFLPA survey that came out earlier this year about like paying for your own gym time like things like that, where it's like, Okay, what is the messaging happening?
And we just don't know that yet.
We don't know because we don't have enough data yet, right So, but in terms of the quarterback situation, I always tend to think about it like I'm a little more empathetic to like the player, and if I'm Kyler, I'm like I'm you know, and I'm sort of almost almost like forcing the issue if it were me in terms of not wanting to rush back, because first of all, why if you're not gonna if you don't even know.
Let's this is a hypothetical obviously, but like let's say you start to think, Okay, maybe they are really going to try to go after a quarterback. This is a new coach, this is a new GM, the organization has sort of been going through this, the structural change quarterbacks. A lot of times you just don't know if the
inherited quarterback will stay. We've seen it happen before. If I'm just thinking about this logically and I'm thinking, oh, maybe they want to go get somebody new, then I'm thinking to myself, Okay, well, I have to do everything I can to make sure I am as and am in as great a shape as possible and mentally everywhere I need to be in order.
To be ready for that if it does happen. And so for him, I think it's so complicated.
Like I said, I am empathetic to feeling like that because in one sense, you can't wait to get back right and compete with your with your teammates and and and to really show the organization, show the fan base, show the coaching staff that like, you can do this, that you can lead, that you can come back from this injury and be the franchise guy and all of that.
But on the other hand, it's like.
You're gonna have that that that feeling, that voice in the back of your head that's saying, are they doing all of this just to move on from me? What does my future look like? You're going to have those those real thoughts. You're a human being, right, and so I am empathetic to that situation. And frankly, that's the
biggest question surrounding this this franchise. I think it's it's been almost to the point of like embarrassing at times how clear they've made it that they aren't committed to Kyler Murray in some in some ways, like the money says one thing, but like all the stuff that came out before the contract was signed, and then some of this teammates have been out and then like you know, some of the stuff that was leaked and and you know, it's just been you have If we have that doubt
on the app outside, imagine how he's feeling on the on the inside of the organization.
Right.
And so that's where I think that is the number one question. And and then you think about what the effect that is to the rest of the roster. If that question is has not been answered. How are you feeling about that? If you're another player in any part of this roster, how are you feeling about players like you know, and we say you know, players who are a little bit more veteran, you know, Buddha Baker or you know, You're you're looking at players who are like, Okay, what's the plan?
Where do I fit? What's going to happen?
And I think that's where this gets really complicated, is yes, that's the biggest question for them to answer moving forward. But the ripple effect of how you're addressing the messaging of that question in the meantime is going to be sort of like looming over this franchise for the next several months.
You've already seen Buddha Baker request a trade, right, so that's out there is something that's already You've already made that impact in terms of you know how that ripple effect impacts the rest of the football team. And I forget which podcast it was, because you're the seventh one of these I've recorded so far in terms of the
division previews. And somebody made a comment about the true Detective time as a flat circle Matthew McConaughey scene, and I'm thinking that applies here because not that long ago, Kyler Murray was the first overall pick when they had a quarterback taken in the top ten the previous year.
And like you said, if they get the first pick in the draft and they fall in love with a Drake may or a Caleb Williams and that's where they want to go after, then all of a sudden, Kyler probably is their biggest trade chip to get more capital back in their pocket to replace that and replenish that draft capital. So it's so funny how this league comes and goes and the cycles that it follows through, and you know, repeat to self sometimes it's just that's why
we love this league so dang much. And for this Cardinals team, I don't really have any veteran acquisitions to mention here, but I did like their draft. Paris Johnson bj Ojalari, Garrett Williams, Michael Wilson, all really good players in the top three rounds there for them. So I think we can go ahead and move on from the Cardinals and finally, Jordan get to the team that you know the most about here in the Los Angeles Rams. You've talked about him a little bit here so far.
You've mentioned a lot of the really I guess bones and structure of their defense when we had you on for the Vic Fangio podcast or the Jalen Ramsey podcast, I should say, talking about him playing in that defense
under brandis Tally and then last year as well. But the Rams here, it's again another one of these teams in this division that to me is in such a fascinating place because they're kind of opposite of the Cardinals in the sense that maybe on defense they have you know, you don't really know what you have there, but offensively you got one of the best receivers in the game, one of the best quarterbacks in the game. Still, I'm
just curious how you make sense of all that. And you talked about how the Rams have kind of given their opinion that they believe they're going to compete more than the public thinks they are. I'm curious where you come down and all of that.
Yeah, for me, I'm just.
I've got to be skeptical, right because I've seen nothing but as the kids saying, the vibes are immaculate, right, everyone's happy. Sean mcvay's back, and he's doing better than
he was through the course of this last season. I think he's really like sort of dove back into process, and he likes his coaching staff and you know, which he wasn't necessarily super thrilled with at times last year, and and then you know, fired a bunch of people and then brought in a bunch of people that you know, he actually had time to go through the full hiring process, and and they're really teaching things that the reason why I can't say definitively is because like, dude, they're going
back to teaching kids how to do drills because they've got like over forty rookies on their roster right now and they're back in Like I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, I've never seen this drill before. And then I'm realizing why I've never seen this drill before? And it's because they've all been they've always been such a veteran loaded team that this is literally the step before the step before the actual drill that happens.
And it's it's been wild to see that.
And so for me, it's like I've got to be skeptical just because you're you're a realist and you're like, there's so many young players on this roster. But I've also seen really good energy from this group overall. Like I think that I don't think it's even like we have a chip on our shoulder. We're going to prove everyone to everyone that we're not going to just completely suck the way that maybe the public thinks that we're going to be, or we're going to prove that we're not tanking or whatever.
I don't even really think it's that. I think it's more so like.
Everybody's really seems to be enjoying every what the days are, what learning is like, well, competing, They're they're opening up different parts of the practices in ways that maybe they hadn't before in terms of having that type of energy. The coaches that they've brought back Aubrey pleasant being a huge factor here. That type of energy is being brought every single day. They're allowing young players, even though they're
wanting them obviously to stay within their technique. They're allowing young defensive players to really try to challenge the offense in terms of trying to make plays on the ball if they see a play to be made, and those types of things sometimes you'd see in the past with all veterans it's like, okay, install is install, right, We're not.
We just kind of go through the motions and we're going to make sure we just at the mental checks done and we're not going to really quote unquote play because there's so much physical preservation to be done with that, especially with older players.
This time of year. But in this way, in these practices, you're seeing this like youthful sort of vibrance and this youthful energy, and I think it's been really good for a lot of the more senior coaches on the staff. Sean McVay included, which is hilarious. At thirty seven, he's one of the more he's the senior coach. I'm staff right, but I will tell you there's going to be some bumps in the road. Again.
The parallels to what Seattle did are are very clear. There's definitely going to be some bumps in the road. Their defense, it's going to have Aaron Donald, Ernest Jones, and Jordan Fuller as the only three as coming back with significant starting experience, and Jordan Fuller is coming off a pretty significant leg injury that held him back last year. And so when you're looking at that and you're looking at how many positions have to be filled by rookies,
the offense is still kind of top heavy. I really like what they've done with their offensive line. They've sort of beefed up their offensive line. You could tell that they're moving away from that pure outside zone as they have been for years. They'll still have those elements in it, but they've got like people moving guards on the interior now and they're like trying to see if having a
bigger center will work, and like it's just there. They're larger in that regard instead of those those really light, shifty, like horizontal movers that Sean had always gravitated toward in the past. And now you could see they're still top heavy in a lot of spots on the offense, but on the defense, you're going to see a lot of learning in public just like what we mentioned was Seattle at the top of this show. It's like, you're going to see a lot of learning in public, You're going
to see a lot of coaching in public. You're going to see a lot of mistakes. But you're also what they hope is you're going to see these guys start to grow and really develop when they're thrown into the fire in that regard, and I think that's what the mindset is. It's like they I'm going to just put it bluntly, the defense was the sacrificial lamb of this
like partial rebuild. They basically said, Okay, Raheem Morris, we know that you can handle this, and we know that you're a really good teacher, and we know that like in general, like just the mindset, like you can handle something like this, So good.
Luck, yes and so, and that's kind of and that's what they're doing.
And Sean keeps his offense and his quarterback and his receiver and all of those things right, and so that's how you make everybody happy while also understanding like they're going to try to rebuild on the fly, right, And so I think that's what you're looking at here.
It's gonna be really interesting.
I've heard when I'm talking to people in the organization over the last several months, I've heard things like, Oh, they're just gonna go be like the Golden State Warriors and shoot a bunch of threes and like not play defense or whatever. It's gonna be like, Oh, we're just not gonna We're gonna be like a run and gun team, Like we're just gonna try to outscore people.
And I'm like, yeah, all right, well that's entertaining, so sign.
Me up, you know absolutely, I mean, that's it if you're gonna compete with one side being lopside. I compare Todai that the offense is the way to go in today's NFL. So it makes the most sense, especially with the coach like Sean mcvab. But I do love the Raheem Morris, you know, possession on that defense in terms of having a guy that's been there and seen it all.
And Jordan, when you said forty rookies, like I remember they had a lot and I had to go look at their page here and see to be sure, because you're right forty exactly. And I'm thinking about your work day on the last day of the draft when I had eleven day three picks and signed twenty six udfase. Holy moly, that you must have been busy for weeks after that, fourteen draft picks in total. Was your draft weekend? Just you went the Rams the draft.
House, right, Yeah, I was there, I should say that, like in a really haunted way, like I was there.
But yeah, it was wild that I had a thirty thirty two ounce hydro flask just full of this crazy cold brew that I make, and I had team employees come coming to find me to get some of that cold brew because it was like just a little extra rocket booster, you know, because of how crazy things were getting.
Yeah, it was wild, man like. And you sit there so that here's the thing though, too.
It's like you walk out to practice and again I can't emphasize enough the RAMS have been so top heavy for so many years in terms of those more experienced veteran core players that have been there forever, and now it's almost flipped on its head. So you walk out to practice and you're sitting there and you're like, oh my god, that guy was born in two thousand and one, Like, oh my god. All three specialists are rookies, Oh my god.
And you sit there and you start to have like this personal crisis where you're like, oh my god, I don't recognize any of you, and you're looking at the roster and you're like, oh my god, there's so many young people.
But yeah, it's it's been crazy. That day was crazy. It's been wild. But but and it's like, and it's crazy.
It'll hit you at different times, like you'll they didn't even work on they hadn't even been working on kick returns at first, because you have to figure out the covered structures first.
You have to do those first, and so it's.
Like, oh, we're you know, I'm really watching a back to basics scenario. That's been fun too, because seeing in the process start from scratch is not a luxury I have had because they again, they've been so top heavy. So this is fun in a whole different way.
Yeah. I always say that twenty nineteen training camp was one of my favorites because it really tested my scouts side in terms of, oh, there's an undrafted rookie cornerback they moved into safety today, let's see how he plays there. Like it's just watching football. To watch football it's not about the names of the decals on the side of the helmet. It's just straight up football, So you'll have
fun with that. Let's go ahead and close this podcast before we hear from what you're working on here in a second with our division superlatives here, just give me the name. You don't have to tell me why you think this way. Maybe a brief description, but just a quick description on a few items here of the best in the NFC West. And we start where we always do with who do you think is the best quarterback in the NFC West?
Right now?
I am going to have to say Matthew Stafford.
I have to.
I shouldn't say it like that, but I think you know what I'm watching is a healthy, healthy Matthew Stafford, which is which is significant because also a happy Matthew Staffort. And it's also a problem solving and a troubleshooting and a collaborating Matthew Stafford. And as we've seen, that can be a very very dangerous thing for other teams when channeled in the right direction.
So he's feeling great.
He was there obviously through the entire the entire spring, even you know, voluntary stuff because it is so important for him to be getting the reps. Remember he didn't throw the entire spring last spring, and he's a full go this year. So I think that's significant and certainly something to watch for the Rams.
That's where I have to go too. I'm curious about Kyler and his rehab and getting under an offensive minded coach that can maybe take his game to the next level. But we'll see. That's a different down the line type of answer there, But it's Stafford for me as well. How about and this one's a lot tougher. I think your best non quarterback player on offense in the NFC West.
Oh, that is so hard.
I always want to go with like alignment right because because they're so important, So I would just say that position in general.
I really liked what Seattle did with their offensive line.
Obviously Stamford Cisco you can never count them out with the offensive line.
But in terms of if I'm going to.
Say like pure skill player, I'm really curious to see with a full season with Christian McCaffrey and and Deebo Samuel together, I'm really curious to see how that shakes out,
how that unfolds. There's so many great players in this division, so I certainly don't want to leave anybody out, but in terms of concepts, then concepts turning into tangible action and execution, like I'd really like to see how those two are utilized, how they interchange, how they compliment each other, and then how they they use some of those misdirection and those those pre snap and post snap book changes.
I'm really curious to see how that goes this year.
It's so funny how in stink we've done the entire podcast because you talk about I put George Kittle because of the extension of the offensive line that he is, on top of the passing game prowess that he offers. So we're in lockst up there again, not in terms of the player, but in terms of the thinking. And then, like you know, Trent Williams too, it's hard to ignore, guys, there's so many plays.
And there's some caveats too, Like Cooper Cup it's obvious seas in that conversation obviously, but there's caveats because again, he's coming off that tightrope surgery.
He hasn't been a full go. They're just onboarding him really carefully through the spring.
So it's like it's almost like, Okay, well, ask me again in five months and maybe my answer will completely change when some of these guys are back and healthy.
But yeah, Cooper Cup's always got to be in that conversation.
Well, just like this one. Who I think you have three good options, but I think there's one that stands above the rest, and I think you might go in that direction. But we'll see top defensive player in this division.
Oh, Aaron Donald in the world.
I agree, I agree with you.
I'll tell you what.
I'll tell you what too.
It's it's Aaron Donald obviously coming off his first and only significant injury he's ever had in his entire career. He's never missed time before. He played with broken ribs in Frozen Green Bay a couple.
Of years ago.
But this was something where it's like, ah, the season's in the toilet, time to go get tightrope, you know,
not that he wanted to do this. It's like, Aaron, we should sit you down, you know what I mean, Like you have to convince someone who's wired like he is to sit and so and like so for me, though, it's like there's there's he's so competitive, there's got to be that just like that sour taste of like I am not having this be the last word, Like I Am not having this be the mark on my on my legacy, and I just I'm really it's gonna be.
It's always fun watching him play, but I just I have to say it's like he did not lose a step last year, even when he was like the last man.
Standing on that defensive line, did not lose a step.
And I expect him to be really really itching to remind people who he is this year, which is going to be interesting to watch.
Yeah, I'm not sure if you take between Donald Bosa and Fred Warner, if there's a better three sum of defensive players and a different division in the NFL right now, those those players are also this This division is awesome. I just I can't wait to see it play out this year. And let's go ahead and do two more here. You're best coach in the NFC West. I know it's such a loaded question.
For you, I know, especially when we talk about this project I've been working on.
You can pass, you can take the broadcasters pass.
I'm going to take a broadcaster's past, And I think, and I think just because I just think The biggest thing is I would have said Pete Carroll last year, actually, if this was last year, I would have said Pete Carroll just because of the way that he totally subverted expectations and really re like there was so much ego in what he did in terms of they change, they completely changed their defense around as we've talked about. And then also, you know he's he's got a Sean mcvag
guy calling his offense. Now, like that's a that's a lead your ego at the door, because we've known that that system has had Seattle's number, whether it's Kyle or Sean or whoever, Like, we know that that's had their number for and so to go and find that guy and bring that system into your own house. Like so last year, I would have said Pete Carroll. This year, I'm kind of like I'm going to take a broadcaster's pass because we'll see how it goes.
No, it makes perfect sense. I mean, it's it's another thing where we have a bunch of really good options here. I mean, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, bo if you know, the playoff runs one Super Bowl championship there as well. In an appearance in the big game as well, So I mean it's you really can't go wrong.
Yeah, and Travis, like we know, like Sean's coming back from something significant too, you know, almost walking, you know, the whole thing is is like the personal stuff that he went through last year, Like that's all real.
So it's it's like you need to see before you can actually make it.
Just how is some It's almost like it's just with a player with an injury, like how is this person going to return from this crisis? How is this person going to return from adversity? And so it's almost like the Kyler the Cooper caveats, like I'll wait and see ask me in a few months, because I'll wait and see. I'll have to see for real, like how someone has returned from this situation that they were in.
I'll hold to that. Maybe we'll come back in a couple months and then get that answer from you here down the line. So I will ask you for an answer on this one before we get out of here. Division champion this year? Who you taking?
Probably San Francisco. Yeah, it's their time. They have to And honestly, it's not just that I think that they in that place right now. They have to be like, they have to be dominant this year.
They have to really this. They have to make this run that they think that they can make. It'll depend obviously.
Honestly, I think I'll depend more on the run game than the quarterback, as I've noted. But there are some big questions to answer there. But they absolutely have to finally max out this window with the championship.
Again.
They've traded all these draft picks, They've built their roster a certain way.
They have to do it.
This is like they're I hated when people said this about the Rams because it wasn't necessarily accurate, but this is like they're all in year.
It's they're all in window. They have to be doing these things now.
It makes a lot of sense. I think them and Philly and Dallas are really the teams to beat right now in the NFC, and it's probably how it's gonna play out. Again. We'll see, though. It's a long season and we'll have a lot of fun covering it. Jordan, you cover a lot of things in this league. I want to go ahead and close with this about First of all, where can the folks find you? What are you working on? I understand you have something big coming in the pipe here.
Yeah, thank you so much, by the way for asking about that. I'm stoked.
Obviously we've talked off camera about this project that I'm working on. You guys can find me at the Athletic dot com. You can find me on Twitter at Jordan rodrig Jordan with you. You can also find me. You'll be able to find me very soon. I have been working on a narrative podcast series, uh and for the Athletic and it is a deep dive into the dynamics and the rise of the Shannahan McVay coaching tree. And so the four main characters of the series are Kyle Shanahan,
Sean McVay, Matt Lafleur, and Mike McDaniel. So, Dolphins fans, I think you will be really fascinated as I was by this, because not only was Mike so gracious with his time in working on this project with me, but also you're going to I think hear him in a way that I think you guys on the ground in Miami you see a lot of a lot of him, right, but like the the mass public, they sort of see him, Oh,
that's the guy who always has the funny quote. Oh, that's that brilliant guy from Yale who like can scheme up this great like he's he's he's one of those like, you know, boy genius types kind of kind I think people think. But really the development of his character, I say character, like the stuff he's made of, Like the development of that he is so open about through the course of this series, in how his experiences working with these other coaches and also his own life experiences have
shaped him into being the coach and the person. And I think that's something that as I talk to him and as I talk to people around him, started to
really understand, is he is wearing that out loud. And I think that's why you've heard some of the players talk about him the way that they have is because he's showing them who he is, and who he is is someone who can empathize with a real, lived and human experience because he has really lived it in a lot of ways other people in this series have not, and and certain everyone's got different lessons in their lives and hits, different adversities and hits different things that they've
experienced that shape them as a human. But the way that he's talking about it and how much it interconnects and becomes part of the identity of the football, the football brain waves, and how much his identity shows as a play caller and as a designer, Like it's all shaping you're you're watching himself and then all these coaches who who talked with me for the series, and so many people from across the league, coaches and analysts and
former players, and you're they're literally growing up right in front of us, and they're showing us how they're doing it if you know where to look. And so this this series is sort of a roadmap into that and and basically how football works, how systems clash and react to each other, and kind of what this modern moment is that we're living in the NFL right now.
Yeah, we might have to get you back on conclusion of all that, maybe do a recap, because I am fascinated to see this and like, you know, you talk about getting spend time with coach every time he leaves a press commerce, I'm like, we I hope those guy's here for thirty five years. Like he is so much fun to be around, and just the way he allows you to be yourself and not just from a player standpoint, but everybody in the building, like he is all about, you know, be your true self and you know, be
the vulnerable. If you want to be vulnerable, be vulnerable. I just think I think so much of Mike and obviously you know I'm not just say next time the pay why. I really appreciate what he's done down here for us, not just on the football field, but in every way, every aspect of the of the profession. So that's awesome, Jordan, And you've given me about an hour of your time now, so I'm very grateful for that.
Thank you so much. Thank you for coming back on the podcast back in March when we got Jalen Ramsey on the team. You've been awesome. You've said it all. Thank you so much, Jordan for your time. And we'll check out that project for years.
Yeah, thank you for having me. It's out July tenth.
Wherever you get your podcast, you will be able to find it and I will be an annoying person blowing up Twitter and everything else talking about it. So thank you so much, Travis. I always have so much fun talking with you about any of this stuff. So I'll come back anytime, and it's great to see you and it's great to catch up.
Yeah.
Likewise, and thanks again Jordan and the way she goes How much fun was that? I mean we I told her before the podcast I was shooting for a half hour.
We went almost double that, but it's difficult not to and we probably could have done another hour on her Mike McDaniel projects she's worked on and put together over the last several months here, and I think we're going to have her back on sometime during training camp and be an off day to talk about that piece and how much great content she provided there with Mike McDaniel and really kind of getting to know our head coach, not just that, but also the x's and o's into
the offense. So great fit on the podcast obviously. Hope you guys enjoyed that episode. Let's go ahead and get out of here. I believe the next one we have for you guys will be on Monday. We're going to move that around because the fourth is the holiday, So check out the AFC North podcast on Monday, July third, the next one you're hear from me here on drive Time. In the meantime, you all please be sure to subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your
podcast from. Follow on social at wingfold, NFL at Miami Dolphins, check out the Fish Tank with Seth and Juice, our YouTube channel that has a bunch of fish tank content, Dolphins Today, media availabilities, and much much more, and last but not least, Miami Dolphins dot Com. Until next time. Finn's Up, Carolina and Cameron Daddy's Coming Home.