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And welcome to the Draft Time Podcast, part of the Miami Dolphins podcast Network, covering your team, your Miami Dolphins. How's it going everybody?
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Host, Travis Wingfield. And on today's episode, our penultimate divisional preview episode takes us inside our own division, the AFC East. Evan Lazar from Patriots dot Com will join us.
That's it.
It's gonna be all Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Patriots right here from the Baptist Health Studios inside the Baptist Health Training Complex.
This is the Draft Time Podcast.
Maggie, Jeff, let's go ahead and jump right into my interview with Patriots dot COM's Evan Lazar.
And joining us today for the AFC East.
Preview for the twenty twenty three season is a man from Patriots dot Com, the host of the Catch twenty two podcasts there for the Patriots podcast Network.
Evan Lazar. Evan, how you been man? It's been a long time since we've talked.
I know, it's been a long time since we've done a show together. Saw each other at the Combine, which is always fun to see everybody that you know mostly from social media, but they get to meet them in person. So that was that was cool, and uh yeah, it's I'm glad to be back and doing something with you.
Were you down here for Week one last year? You had to have been.
I wasn't, actually because I caught COVID in our trip to Vegas for the final preseason games. As the one road game I didn't travel to last year was Miami, but knock on wood all, I'll be back there this year. But I still can't get every road game. That last year. I was like, this is it. I'm going to be every single game, and then it turned out that I missed that one, But I always loved coming down to Miami. I've been down there before for past Patriots games. I
was at the Miami Miracle. Unfortunately, I was at a few other Patriots Dolphins games, so it's always a good place to be.
I sit on the furthest section over closest to the visitors, like reporters, and I remember I didn't come say hi to you. It's like I wouldn't do that if if I had seen you, So I was wondering if you were there or not. But this year, we'll definitely get a look and it'll be maybe good weather, at least better than the season opener last year, and in early September one, it was just hot as hell out there. But the game will be Sunday, October twenty ninth here
week number eight, one o'clock kickoff. Dolphins face the Patriots as well week two up in Foxborough for a Sunday night kickoff on the seventeenth of September. But we're gonna start here before we get into the games against the Patriots. With the thirty thousand foot view of the afast breaking down this division. You and I both have been covering this division for a long long time, so I thought it'd be fun to talk about it with you here
on the podcast. A lot's gone on here, man, This division has gone from one team that dominated for twenty years to all of a sudden, really a bunch of teams that feel really good about where they are heading into the new campaign. Kind of just talk about this division as a whole and how the offseason's gone so far in the AFC East.
Well, ultimately, I still think we're all chasing Buffalo, and until Buffalo is dethroned as division champs, the Bills should probably feel pretty good about repeating as long as they have that nucleus together of Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs on the offensive side of the ball, And even though they lost Tremaine Edmonds on defense, I still think the general outline of their defense is pretty similar at going
into this year as well. So for the Patriots against the Bills, that they have one win in the last couple of years, which was that Gail Force wins game Monday night in Buffalo. Other than that, they don't have a win against Buffalo since I think nineteen when Brady was here, So last so I always look up at Buffalo, but I think what's fun or interesting about this division? And maybe the Patriots, and we'll get to them. I know, individually in a second, have gone about it a little
bit differently than the Jets and the Dolphins have. But it really feels like the AFC East has turned into an arms race where everybody is just trying to load up as much as they can offensively to try to compete with Buffalo. And you look at what the Jets have done with Aaron Rodgers. Obviously, Miami's done with the receivers that they've added around to and hiring Mike McDaniel to bring an offensive flavor to the Dolphins organization. So they're going to score some points in the AFC East.
And I know defensively these teams are pretty good too, but I still think that the quarterbacks and the offense is going to be what ultimately decides the division.
You mentioned the Gail Force wins.
I'm so glad Buffalo didn't put a dome or I guess propose a dome stadium up there in western New York, because, like the weather in this division to meet is one of the more fascinating things you Hays get the wind up in the meadow lands, you get the heat down here obviously, you get crazy lake effects snow in Buffalo, and then of course in Foxborough you never know what you're gonna get with those weather winter temperatures up there as well.
So it's one of the most fun divisions.
Not saying that just because I'm so innundated by this AFC East Division, but man, the off season of just crazy acquisitions, a big time quarterback coming over.
I agree with you.
You know, last year going into that Week three game against Buffalo are kind of mantras as Dolphins fans, was like, we got to beat him first before we can start talking about how we might have a chance to you know, surpass him in the standings. And that has to be the case, you know, going into this year, just like it was for the Patriots for so many years there.
But you mentioned Buffalo.
We kick it off with the Buffalo Bills and talk about their off season here because you know, a change of defensive cordion they're gonna have Sean McDermott calling plays this year. You mentioned, you know, the replacing Tremaine Edmonds the middle of that defense. Let's go ahead and start there on defense for Buffalo because last year a little bit up and down performance, there's lots of injuries on that side.
Of the ball.
How do you see them coming back this year, especially with a new play caller who is their head coach on defense.
Yeah, I think that's a really interesting way to go about things for the Bills. And I understand that they probably feel pretty good about Dorsey on the offensive side of the ball, and Josh Allen maybe even calling his own game to a degree at this point in his career. But I'm never I always have reservations about head coaches taking over play calling that haven't done it in a while, or that's not really the way that they want to
go about things. It's almost like McDermott has to take it over just out of necessity because they don't really have anybody to step in to that role for Leslie Frazier. So I look at the Patriots and how they've done things too. Bill Belichick has never really been a play caller as the head coach of the Patriots. He's been more of that CEO type on the sideline that's just quality control and overseeing the entire operation, and he allows right now. Obviously Bill O'Brien coming back to call plays
offensively and Steve Belichick doing the play calling defensively. So it's gonna be interesting to see how it works out for Buffalo. And I think the other thing that you're sort of waiting for this with this defense is those younger pass rushers, you know, guys like Greg Russo for instance. Are those guys and Head Oliver who just got that massive extension, are they gonna step up and really be a force up front alongside von Miller? Which when does
he come back? Is he gonna come back full strength and be the same guy he was before the injury, I think is another big question. We know about their secondary. They're really well coached back there. They have a good system, They've been good in the past defense in the secondary for a long time. But I feel like Buffalo is still waiting for really Russo and Ed Oliver to truly come into their own and start to take over games.
Yeah, the von Miller thing is really intriguing because I think if you add him to the mix and you get von Miller, all of a sudden, you have a front that is just going to put relentless pressure on quarterbacks. I love the addition of Leonard Floyd and Puna Ford in that defensive line to make a strength even stronger this year.
And you mentioned the secondary, Like you know.
We always look at the acquisitions teams making the offseason, but sometimes it's just your incumbents or guys that you get back. They didn't have Micah Hyde and Jordan Ployer for most of the year last year. Then you add Taylor Rapp and Cameron Danzler, you know, to Ron Johnson's back there, and he's one of the best nickels in the entire game. So I think that's a really intriguing part.
They're on the defense. And you mentioned, you know, in the thirty thousand foot view portion, how the other teams in the arms race kind of trying to catch up to the Bills offensively in this division. I'm looking at Buffalo and they did rework the offensive line, but for the most part, didn't really do a whole lot to add to their offense. I'm curious how you think the impact of a couple of guys will will help that offense, because they really made two moves.
Damien Harris.
Harris, who I love and you know very well and Dalton Kin kid the rookie tight end. Curious how you think those two guys impact this offense?
Well, I feel like, and then with all this stuff that's come out about Stefan Diggs, and it seems like his unhappiness was about how they tried to be a little bit more traditional offensively in the second half of the year to take some of the pressure off of Josh Allen. And that's what I felt like the Damien Harris signing was for, was to give them a true between the tackles early down back. I mean, we know Harris really well up here, and he's a power back.
He's somebody that's gonna be able to tote the rock if he's healthy one hundred and fifty two hundred times on the ground. But is that really how Buffalo wants to play. It doesn't seem like that's what Diggs wants to do, right. They want to air it out and throw it and be one of those teams that we see every single year, you know, passing over expected. Buffalo and Kansas City are always like all the way over here and everybody else is like sort of middle of
the pack. So is that going to continue for the Bills now that they have a guy like Damien Harris, I thought maybe not, and then they go ahead and they draft Dalton Kincaid, who's basically just a big wide receivers. So it is kind of mixed signals I think from Buffalo where they're headed, and they obviously want to keep their star wide receiver happy. So I still lean towards the Bills being a heavy pass team and really putting most of it on Josh Allen in that passing game.
But I think what they need to do offensively, and this is where some of the running stuff I think was supposed to come in, is they need to be more consistent and not as volatile where they could hang fifty on you. But they can also have a game like they did against the Bengals and the playoffs. And when you heavy, is the head that wears the crown right like Buffalo. I say this all the time to
Bill's Mafia when they have me on their shows. We knew it all well and good in New England that you got to target on your back and the expectation is super Bowl or bust. And when you're the Bills, the pressure is starting to mount a little bit to get that first Super Bowl championship and maybe that breaks the damn right they get one and all of a sudden they're a team that wins a couple in a
few years. But until they get that first one, the pressure is going to continue to mount and mount and mount in Buffalo.
That's literally the last bullet point I had to ask about was the pressure that they might be facing this year, because again, like you said, I listen to all kinds of different podcasts around the NFL, and that's one of the things I hear about is this has to be the year for Buffalo.
It's like it does it? I don't know, I mean, maybe maybe not.
And you know you mentioned some of the additions on the offensive line there. I thought they did a great job of going and getting Brandon Shall of Cyrus Torrance and who was the other one up here, Connor McGovern this offseason, So maybe there is a little more thought
there towards the running game. But like you mentioned, I think that the best example of the passing game and being reliant on that and the pressure they felt was like you talked about in the playoffs, because before the Bengals game against Miami, Alan average like it was something like fourteen are yards per throw in that game against Miami, and he turned the ball over a lot in that game, and it kept Miami in the game till the very end there, you know, with a rookie quarterback under center
for them. So I'm curious how, like, I don't know how you could possibly answlis Evan. I'm gonna ask anyways, because we don't know the psyche of the professional athlete. But I'm thinking about your time covering the Patriots because when the first they had that first like dynasty, right, they just won right away and they kept winning after that, So there wasn't like this pressure to go get a
championship at that time. But I think the second part of Brady's career, when the championships weren't coming and they had lost a couple of Super Bowls, did they kind of feel that sense of pressure? How do you think that team can kind of compare to this Buffalo team in terms of we got to go find a way to win a ring because right now we have this all time great quarterback, we have to pay it off with a championship.
Yeah, I look at let's face it, and now in hindsight, we don't have to worry about this in New England. But if the Patriots dynasty quote unquote had just started at two thousand and five and they never had dynasty two point zero in the twenty tens, then you're gonna look back and say they only won three times with Tom Brady, Like that's kind of a failure, you know, similar to how like Brett fav won once in Green Bay in the beginning of his career and never won again,
and Aaron Rodgers won once and never won again. Like that's sort of what the narratives might have been in Tom Brady's career. And I think it's one hundred percent true that in those early twenty tens, like when they reset after the Moss years, like you know, nine to twenty ten around there, they had some really bad defenses and there was a lot of pressure to win another one. They went a decade as much success as they had, and they made two Super Bowls and they won a
ton of games. The Patriots about a decade in between Super Bowls from two thousand and four to twenty fourteen, so there was a little bit of a drought in terms of championships. And I think that Buffalo is in a similar spot where they have to maximize this Allan Digs window and at some point they'll probably turn it over to a next regime around Allen because Diggs is
going to age out and Alan isn't. But will they be able to replenish the arsenal at that point and will they be able to find another Stefan Diggs to pair with a thirty to thirty five year old Josh Allen, let's say, And that's really what they're up against right now, is making sure that the roster around Allen doesn't h and it doesn't wilt around him to the point where
then they have to reset. So I think there's a ton of pressure on Sean McDermott and Buffalo, and I think you have to start really considering the fact that if they don't get over the hump and they don't at least make the super Bowl here soon, how much longer is Sean McDermott gonna have until they look at it and say, well, he got us to this point, but is he really the coach that's gonna win a
title for us? And I kind of go always go back and cross sports, you know, like with the Warriors right with Mark Jackson, and then the finally they bring in Steve Kerr and he's the one that gets them the championship. And maybe that's a similar thing with Sean
McDermott and the Bills. We'll see. But ultimately I really find it interesting to see where this offense is headed and what they do because the two things that have really stood out to me about Buffalo, and this is sort of their bottom line, is that Josh Allen can easily win the game for you as easily as he
can throw it away for you. And the interceptions and the high volatility for their offense, especially like in the red zone and things like that and short yardage has been a big problem for them in these close games against playoff teams in the playoffs like last year. And secondly, they're running game without Allen being a factor. Just their traditional turn it, you know, turnaround and hand the ball to the running back style running game has been bad
the last couple of years. It just has been bad. So are they going to go all in on Allen being Cam Newton two point zero and just let them keep running all over the place, or are they going to try to shift and then talking about the longevity of Josh Allen, right, like how much do you really
want to put on his plate? So I think that offensively, they're at sort of a schematic crossroads of what's really best for the long term and maybe what's best for going all in on the short term to win the championship.
Really well said.
My first thought was, man, what a tough industry that you have a coach who, for my money, is one of the best in the NFL consistently putting his team deep into the postseason. But like you said, like you never know, and that I love the basketball baseball crossovers here in the podcast to do it all the time. So that Mark Jackson comment was perfect for the podcast here.
But what a tough industry, man, Like, you're winning all these games, and you might, you know, you might have that thought in the future of like can't he get him over the hump? Like I remember Andy Reid dealt with that for years and years before he got that first championship with the Chiefs, and now it's like, looking back in hindsight, yeah, he's one of the best coaches of all time there.
So very fascinating.
And then the Josh Allen stuff man the way sometimes when he gets hit Evan, I'm like, there's no way he's getting up from that.
He bounces right back up.
He is an absolute tank and I'm curious to see if they do, you know, continue.
Having him take that kind of punishment.
I think the front office would like to see him not do as much, but sometimes you can't coach the player out of the player sometimes. And you know, speaking of injuries, he did take an injury last year that didn't cost him any time, but I think it did affect the way he played for a stretch of games there with that elbow injury. Facing the New York Jets, a team that did beat Buffalo once last year and
competed in the second contest with him. But now the Jets all of a sudden have their answer at the biggest position that was a real weakest for him last year at quarterbacks. They pivot here to the Jets real quick. The Dolphins wi play the Buffalo Bills Week four in Buffalo on October the first at one o'clock kickoff, and then the season finale Week eighteen down here in Miami for possibly a Saturday or a Sunday game against Buffalo speaking of the New York Jets, it all starts with
a quarterback, right, Aaron Rodgers. I just want to hear your opinion here of someone's opinion that I really respect in terms of the x's and o's and you know, scheme fits and all that stuff. What do you make of Aaron Rodgers' season last year where it was kind of a downturn from the previous two MVP seasons, And how do you think he can get back to that this year or will he not get back to that?
Aaron Rodgers last year reminded me so much of twenty nineteen Brady, And as it turns out, it was his last year, just like it was in with Brady in New England, his last year being in Green Bay last year. So you look at what happened last year with the Packers. They have a big turnover at the wide receiver position. They traded the Adams the Patriots in nineteen Rob Gronkowski retires, right, So two kind of you know, Hall of Fame caliber players,
pillars of the organization. They leave, and the quarterback is stuck making it work with rookies and new guys and new faces and new places. And they get frustrated. They just naturally get frustrated. Aaron Rodgers has to look at it and say, they didn't give me enough to win a Super Bowl this year. We don't have the talent on the offensive side of the football or the experience
to really win a Super Bowl. And then he's also not playing at the level that we're used to seeing him play, and all of a sudden, now you have a disgruntled quarterback. And Brady's famous line was the Patriots actually started the nineteen season like eight or nine to zero because of the defense, and he said that he was the unhappiest nine to zero quarterback in the history of the NFL. And I think that Rogers probably felt the same way, although the record was worse for Green Bay.
So the question really is with the Jets. And now he's got Garrett Wilson and he's got some some tools and some pieces to work with. But can they get Rogers back dialed in? Can they get that Bucks Brady version of Aaron Rodgers. Because Brady goes to Tampa Bay, he's got weapons up the Yin Yang with you know, Mike Evans and Chris Godwin, and then Antonio Brown comes and Gromp comes out of retirement and they win a
Super Bowl. So it could it could easily go that way for the Jets, or it could easily go the way of a lot of guys at this stage of their careers that move on from the team they spent their entire careers with, and it could go belly up. Like I honestly think I lean more towards them being
competitive than not. But how competitive are they is really gonna come down to is Aaron Rodgers gonna be the MVP Aaron Rodgers or is he gonna just be better than Zach Wilson, which like isn't really much of saying much. So I think that that's gonna be a big thing I think in Miami and New England or hope that is still the kind of fizzled out Aaron Rodgers. But more than likely, I think that he's going to play some pretty good football.
I was gonna say, it's a pretty interesting conversation because you have two guys here that want to see that ladder portion you were talking about where it does fizzle out and we all get to, you know, have our laughs of the Jets that we love to get off so much here but certainly look like the most competitive team they fielded here in quite a long time. And a big part of that goes to the defensive side of the football what they were able to do last year.
And I always look at, you know, top of the line defense and who better to talk to you than this, you know, conversation about sustaining defensive play because the Patriots have done it for so long. And we'll talk about that when the Patriots do come up here next. But I'm always kind of dubious about teams that, you know, they have that really dominant defense that just puts together a top of the line season that really doesn't allow many points in how many yards and just dominates teams.
It's typically tough to sustain that year after year. I'm curious how you think this Jets defense can do that and kind of how it's built upon those two corners, right, DJ Reid and obviously Sauce Gardner.
Yeah, I think the big thing with the Jets defense
is that it's also built on the system. And we know that the system is sound because it's traveled from San Francisco to New York and to a few other places that Robert Salad you know, Kyle Shanahan masterpiece of really what has morphed I think in the Jets at least, you know, I haven't studied the Niners film quite as much as I have with the Jets, but they play a lot more quarters in like two high structures at this point than that true Seattle three system that we've
seen with Pete Carroll and the Seahawks back in the day. So I think with this defense, you really have to have great linebacker play in order to pull this off. And we know in San Francisco they have Warner, they have green Law, they have two athletic range ye really good zone coverage linebackers. And with the Jets, it's been Mosy and it's been Quincy Williams, who's kind of an
underrated player. I think in the middle of that entire defense are those two guys mostly I think is getting a little bit up there in age but still a good player. And Quincy Williams, like I mentioned, a little bit of a of an unknown to kind of under
the radar player. Are they going to be able to continue to dominate the middle of the field at the second level like they have over the last couple of seasons because I think you know what you're gonna get on the outside with Reed and Sauce, Like those two guys are going to be good players, especially Sauce. Gardner is going to be one of the best corners in
the league again, and especially in this system. It's I'm not going to say it's easier for corners, but I do think it's a little bit easier than some of the man heavy systems that you see across the league to just control your side of the field, play bail, play cover three, play a little bit of man to man Situationally, it feels a little bit like Sauce should basically be the same that he was last year, if
not better. But I look at this defense and I also remember, you know, the two games they played against New England last year, what really stood out was how good their front was. Quentin Williams. Obviously, John Franklin Myers, I think is one of the most underrated players in the entire NFL. And now they out add Will McDonald in the first round. I thought, I don't know about you, but I thought it was a little bit early for
will McDonald when they drafted him. And I know the rumors were that they were, They were after Roderick Jones and they got passed over by the Steelers. Who knows what actually ended up happening there. The Jets claim that's not what happened, but who knows. And then Bryce Huff I think is a really good situational josh U j edge rusher type that plays on third down in the
passing game. They absolutely ate up the Patriots offensive line for two games last year with that front, with Quinn Williams playing out of his mind for most of the year. So I look at this defense, I think it's going to be just as good. I think the systems sound and really travels and translates year to year, and then you have good players. So I don't really see where the dropoff comes for the Jets. I think if you are a Dolphins fanner you're a Patriots fan, and you're
hoping that there's a dropoff coming. Maybe it's at the linebacker level with Mosley starting to show his age a little bit, but it's hard. It's hard to see it. It's hard to see the Jets defense being much worse than it was last year.
You nailed it with the how the Niners played their system for so long they're under saloon and really with Tamiko Ryan's now going forward, I'm sure with Steve Wilkes, but they the cornerback investment wasn't a position they really invested in. You see this Jets team they have, you know, invested heavily with the number. Was it the number four overall picked at saw was a couple of years ago? And then uh, excuse me, then DJ read obviously a
big free agent acquisition. But then, like you talked about that front, they have gone after that position, you know, year after year here, Michael Clemens.
A year ago you mentioned John Franklin.
Myers got a contract, Carl Lawson got a big contract, while back Bryce Huff and Will McDonald the first round pick. This year they go out and they get Solomon Thomas as well. So, man, they have waves and waves of pass rushers. And if we can pivot back to the offensive side here, because I agree with you, I think the defense is going to be their calling card once again, and if Rogers can make it all happen, then obviously that that makes them a really dangerous out there in
the AFC East. By I think you talk about potential, you know, trapdoor scenarios, because I look at what the Packers had last year and Rogers got hit a lot, he was under pressure a lot, and that Packers old
line was awfully banged up. What do you think about this Jets offensive line and how you know they kind of pivot from excuse me, evan, from from that Mike Lafloor to Nathaniel Hackett and how the offensive line kind of comes together because I'm looking at a line that is really relying at that tackle position on a couple of guys that have been banged up a lot last couple of years, and Mkai Beckton and Dwayne Brown.
It's a great point, and I would definitely point to the line as being the real potential Achilles Heel for the Jets. And as much as Aaron Rodgers over his career has been mobile and been able to move around at this stage at forty, like, who knows how mobile he's truly gonna be. And I look at that really that right tackle spot with Mkai Becton, like how many
times are we going to do this? With Mkai Beckton counting on him as being a full time starter and somebody that doesn't just you know, half a season, but his seventeen plus games and potentially into the playoffs if he gets injured. I just don't know where the Jets go from there. Max Mitchell, I think he's more of a left tackle. He's, you know, a guy that's a little bit thinner, a little bit more athletic. Carter Warren. I saw him at at the Shrine Bowl, I believe,
and he's a big, big dude. He's a massive guy. He's a rookie out of Pittsburgh, and I think he's got potential and he's got tools. But he's a developmental project, I would say. And then we know about Yodnika just up here and how that has not exactly panned out for him in his NFL career also due to injuries. So he's not really somebody that you can count on being healthy either. So I look at the tackle spots for the Jets, I had big time concerns. I like
Joe Tipman. I think that was a good draft pick by them at center and kind of solidifies that interior three with Elijah Veratucker. But where do they where do they go at tackle? Do they kick ver Tucker back out the tackle? I know he's played tackle a little bit in his college career. I'm not sure if he's played much there in the pros. I think that's a big thing. But with Hackett and with Rogers, you do expect them to be a little bit Shanahan, McDaniel Lee.
I'll give it, you know, McDaniel ye as well. Where there's gonna be outside zone, there's gonna be motion, there's gonna be misdirection, play action, boot action like things like that that are going to try to move the pocket, are going to try to change the point of attack for the defensive line and the pass rushers, and maybe they get by with a smoke and mirrors type of approach to an extent up front, but they're gonna have
to be well schemed, well coached. I always look at it at those offenses have to be really well synced up right. You have to have the play action and the run game and everything sort of marry up so that defenses tend to fall for it and really take the cheese there. Otherwise, I think if you're gonna have to straight up with their tackle situation, especially with what
they're going to face. At all three teams in the AFC East have pass rushers that can get after the quarterback as edge guys, they're going to have their word cut out for him if they're going to have to just block those guys straight up.
Well, Evans providing excellent analysis here on the AFC East as a whole. We're going to take our first break right here and come back on the other side and get to Evans team, the New England Patriots talk about how they might impact this AFC East Before that, real quick Dolphins faced the Jets twice late in the year, Black Friday Week twelve at New York for a Friday, November the twenty fourth, three o'clock kickoff, and then week number fifteen down here in Miami Sunday, December the seventeen
for one o'clock kickoff. Let's take that break right here with my guest Evan Lazar, come back on the other side, talk about Patriots and Dolphins on the AFC East Preview edition of the Draft Time Podcast, your host Travis Wingfield, brought to you by Auto Nation, picking it back up here with the AFC East preview for our summer preview series here on the Draft Time Podcast, My Game, Today's Evan Lazar and Evan great stuff on the Jets and Bill.
So far, we saved the best for last in terms of the teams that we cover here and the New England Patriots and the Miami Dolphin. Let's go ahead and start up there in Foxborough with your Patriots. And I think the biggest question Dolphins fans or anybody would have for the Patriots this year is the shift from the offensive system a year ago back to Bill O'Brien this year and the impact it might have on Mac Jones.
How do they get Mac Jones back to more of that rookie year production where he was a really good quarterback and Bill O'Brien's impact on the offense.
What are you seeing up there so far?
Well, there's two ways to discuss this. I think the biggest thing is sort of the bird's eye thirty thousand feet view of is competency on offense and competency really as an organization, because let's face it, last year, especially offensively, but I know it didn't necessarily trickle into results defensively, defense was pretty good. I think overall the operation was kind of a mess, right Bill Belichick held it together with duct tape, But let's face it, the way that
they offer offensive coaching staff was set up. It was a ticking time bomb and that really set the tone I think for the entire season and the entire ceiling of the team last year. So is competency is having professional coaches in the right spots where they should be coaching. Is that going to be enough to really flip the switch for mac Jones and for the entire offense, because I still think that they have question marks about high end talent, like do they have enough high end talent
at receiver? They also have tackle issues right now on the offensive line, with Trent Brown coming in a little bit overweight right tackle being an open competition between a couple names that we can go over that aren't exactly exhilarating. So their top end talent is not what Buffalo has, It's not what Miami has, especially at the receiver position. And is it going to be enough to just be a professional operation on the offensive side of the ball.
I think it's going to be the number one question going in to the season for the Patriots. Notwithstanding if they've signed DeAndre Hopkins like that obviously could change that outlook a little bit. But a thirty one year old DeAndre Hopkins. I don't think all of a sudden we look at it and say, oh wow, the Patriots are Super Bowl contenders. It makes them better, But how much better,
I think remains to be seen. The other question schematically about the Bill O'Brien direction of the offense under Bill O'Brien and what it means for mac They at least in the spring had a pretty good Alabama flair to some of the things that they were doing, and it kind of looks like a combination of the Bill O'Brien traditional twenty eleven Patriots playbook and what they were running in Tuscaloosa over the last two years. So I think you're going to see a lot of twelve personnel, two
tight ends with Hunter Henry and Mi Kasicki. I think you're going to see a lot of spread. I think you're going to see a lot of the same things that they did in eleven with pace and five wide and Brady in the gun just kind of surveying and making plays and a lot of stuff in the middle of the field up the seams. Like, I don't think this is going to be a bombs away offense. They're not going to push the ball fifty sixty yards down
the field. Necessarily, it's going to be more of that Death by a thousand paper cuts that I think Brady obviously mastered and hopefully Matt can as well to a degree, and then some of the Alabama stuff, motion RPO things like that I think will also maybe update it a
little bit. So I'm excited about that. I think that the overall approach of let's do what we do best over the last twenty years, but let's just bring it to twenty twenty three and not be stuck in two thousand and one with it, I think that's going to make good, mean good things for the Patriots. But it comes back to Ken mac Jones take that next step and can he be the high end talent piece, right, can he get into that next upper edche line of
quarterbacks where he's driving the bus. I'll give you one stat the Patriots in the mac Jones era, this is going back to twenty twenty one. They're owen thirteen when the opponent scores more than twenty five points oh in thirteen. So they have not won a shootout, they have not won a thirty five to thirty two game. They haven't been able to score enough offensively to win that style
of game. And when you play Buffalo, when you play Miami with their weapons, when you play Aaron Rodgers, you're going to get into a lot of games like that where it's not going to be enough to score twenty four, it's not going to be enough to score twenty seven. You're going to have to score into the thirties. And can the Patriots put up the numbers to be able to do that.
Well, it's fascinating to hear you say that, because my next question for you after you just gave us a very comprehensive offensive overview, and I don't think see any holes in your argument.
It's pretty much comprehensive in that way.
But it's that they do always manage to find a way to have one of the top defenses in the NFL. And last year, Evan, maybe you could disagree with me here, I thought might be the year they drop off a little bit because of the personnel and the guys they lost, and just how the defense looked going into the year. But I was wrong there, obviously, and a lot of
that probably has to do with Bill Belichick. What they do on defense there from a schematics standpoint, but it's crazy because, like I agree with you in terms of needing to score that many points and how offense in today's NFL is probably a little more sustainable in terms of winning games and having a great defense and not such a good offense, but talking about those defense and how they can help them win those twenty four to twenty games, because you know, I think even the personnel
looks good, but even beyond that, you typically have to account for the Patriots just being better on that side of the ball than the some of their parts.
Yeah, they are so well coached on that side of the ball. Obviously starts with Bill Belichick, but Steve Belichick has really come into his own as a play caller, and Drive Mayo is a future head coach in the league, So they really have a guy in Mayo who has that DC head coach makeup, doing a lot of the just organizational type of stuff, I guess, like the CEO
type of stuff. On the defense, he does a lot of presenting, He does a lot of coaching in practice some of the things that you would see a DC do. But Steve helps a lot with the game plans and calling plays themselves, on Sundays or on game days. So that's sort of their set up on defense and what they are defensively in terms of scheme is they are a true game plan defense. And I don't know if that many game plan defenses to the degree that the Patriots do it necessarily exist. I mean, we just take
last year against the Dolphins. They played in that second matchup. I know it wasn't against Tua, but even in the first matchup, to an extent, they're playing a lot of zone. They're playing soft coverage, and they're really hoping to keep the top on it right and not let Tyreek and Jalen Wattle hit those big plays down the field and make the Dolphins march down the field. But then in other weeks they'll come out in and they'll play man the entire game, right, It just depends on who they're
playing and what the opponent goes up against. They have one of the most comprehensive playbooks and rollodexes of things that they can pull in the NFL, and I think that that's what makes their defense so much fun to watch and to break down, is they have everything in their bag. Like they have post safety, they have man they have zone, they have too high, they have blitz like they can pretty much make it work with anything and anywhere at any time, and that makes them really
fun and unpredictable. That's really going to be a big thing for them this year in terms of the players getting into sort of the individual players is unpredictability or just spinning the dial on quarterbacks. The one big loss that they had defensively, they only lost one starter, but it was Devin mccordy and he retired after thirteen seasons with the Patriots. Obviously a massive, massive loss just in
all walks like leadership. Communication on and off the field in terms of the leadership was huge with Devin, and he's obviously played that role better than just about anybody I think you know in the last ten years. He's one of the better free safeties in the NFL. So he's gonna be a big, big shoes to fill there.
But I think what they're gonna do is really mix and match and change up the look for quarterbacks with Kyle Dugger, Adrian Phillips, Tabrill Peppers, Joshua Bledsoe had a strong camp in mini camp, and then also Jalen Mills is transitioning to a more slot safety hybrid type of role versus outside corner now that they have Christian Gonzales. So their secondary, even without Jack Jones, who we can talk about if you want, goes eight, nine to ten deep in the back end of guys that can play
at an NFL level. And then their front is exceptionally good as well, with Matthew, Judon Barmore, Dietrich Wise and Josh Uch coming off the other edge. They have a pass rush that was third in the last year in pressure rate, near the top of the league in sacks, so they can get after the quarterback. They're going to be sound in the back end in terms of coaching
and how they structurally set up. And now they are some couple of rookies too that I think really have a lot of people here optimistic about maybe putting them over the top, because I think the one thing about their defense, Travis, is that they're a little bit of a paper tiger. Sometimes they absolutely dominate backup quarterbacks bad offenses, like if you come into New England with Skyler Thompson,
like you're not scoring a very many points. But when they go up against Josh Allen, when they go up against Patrick Mahomes, when they go up against the great quarterbacks in this league, those guys can score on them and have scored on them. Allen's really kind of figured them out over the last couple of years. Lamar put up thirty seven points on them earlier in the year last year. So can they be a defense that doesn't just dominate backups and bad comp petition, but can also
control the game against elite offenses? I think is gonna be the next step for the defense? Does that exist? I don't know, Like does that defense exist in the league anymore? I don't know, But if it does, then maybe the Patriots can take that next step.
Yeah.
It's a great point.
And it's funny because every time I do a Dolphins Patriots preview, I'm like, you're gonna get eight possessions on offense for either team here, and just see how many points you can get out of those, because, like you mentioned, they do a good job of keeping the top on the defense, or at least against this Dolphins offense, And it just seems like it's always a twenty to fourteen or a twenty three.
To seventeen type of game.
Get we match up with the y'all, and then you know John Jones comes back this year as well. Jonathan Jones and his matchups on Tyreek Hill, He's gotta be one of the best cornerbacks to ever cover Tyreek Kill. For whatever reason, he seems to have his number in that regard, So it's always a fun matchup. There a couple more names we didn't really discuss the Patriots added this offseason, Riley Reeve, Juju Smith, Schuster. You mentioned Mike get Sick he as well to go on with Jabrill Peppers.
I think you mentioned him as well. So fun matchups this year. Every game this division is gonna be fun. I think the Dolphins will face the Paige. It's like I mentioned week two and then again back in Week eight down here in South Florida. Let's go ahead and take our last break right there and come back on the other side, and we'll finally get to the Miami Dolphins here with my guest today, Evan Lazar. Draft Time Podcast, your host Travis Wingfield, brought to you by Auto Nation.
All right, Evan, you were as comprehensive as can be
there talking all things New England Patriots. Didn't really have to ask you fall us, because you pretty much nailed down everything I wanted to ask you in each of your answers, So we'll kind of go ahead and spin this thing forward here to the home team here on the Drive Time podcast and one of your all biggest rivals in the Miami Dolphins, And I just kind of want to hear your perspective on the Dolphins offseason, their outlook heading into the year because I have like three
things I'm focusing on for how they can get better and improve upon the nine win season a year ago. But I definitely want to hear in a punt's perspective on this Dolphins twenty twenty three operation.
Yeah, I think the big thing for Miami, besides two his health, which goes without saying, is just how does Mike McDaniel adjust to some of the things that defenses were doing to them later in the year when they came out And I know that to his injury played a big role in why their offense wasn't quite as efficient towards the end of the year as it was in the beginning of the year, but they came out as probably the best offense in football from like an
EPA perspective and then it kind of started to really tail off. And then when Tua got hurt, a nose dives and is that simply the quarterback getting hurt? Is it schematically that the defenses were seeing more things on tape from McDaniel and started to catch up to him. I know the Chargers kind of put a blueprint out there about how to handle the motion and the different things that they do pre snap with Tyreek Hill. You know what point do they adjust and do they make
some different things happen. I know with Sean McVay, he was able to take the Patriots Super Bowl as a learning experience and be a little bit more multiple in the run game and throw some different things at defenses to be a little bit more unpredictable, and then they win a Super Bowl with Matthew Stafford. So what's What's that one of those Dolphins decide internally was the real reason why their offense went from where it was at the beginning for six weeks of the season to where
it was at the end of the year. If they chalk it up to just Tua getting hurt, then I can totally understand that, and it's probably a valid reason. But I'm curious to get your opinion on do you feel like that was all it was, or you know, is it something else, because I still feel like this team needs to win with the offense at the end of the day, especially with the division and schedules and things like that.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And you talk about the Chargers game and the Niners game, we're kind of the two that seemed to tilt the offense a little bit back more towards the middle of the pack and the way they produced and obviously the completion percentage went way down. The Chargers game was just kind of like the biggest blip on the radar in terms of not really being productive at all.
But what was funny about both those games.
In the Niners game, I thought I thought Tua was better than the Charger game in the Nighter game with how you missed a couple of throws that were schemed open for him and just didn't quite get him on target. But even in those games they struggled, they still had the explosive plays.
You had the.
Crazy Tyreek fumble return for a touchdown, which I don't count that as like something you can count on, but the fifty six yard touchdown pass to him in that game and then a forty five yard touchdown pass to him in the Niners game. To me, it comes down to being more efficient in the short yardage and not being so I guess, you know, negligent in the pre snap operation because there was way too many instances where
that the play got in late. They were up against a late play clock, They had false starts, offensive penalties that set them back behind the chains. If they can just get those things fixed, I think they could be more efficient, keep the ball for longer, and then you have not just an explosive play offense, but hopefully also a ball control offense to go along with that too. So it's really fascinating, man. I can't wait to see
what it looks like this year. Like you mentioned how McDaniel justin how he changes.
Things, does he run the ball more?
He does say he regretted not running the ball as much as he did, as he didn't do last year. But I also say, like you've got Tyreek kill jaylan Walla, why would you not just throw the balls then every single play?
So it's it's an interesting there.
But we're all finished this Dolphins discussion with you on is the defense and I respect your opinion so much on x's and o's and sitting the all twenty two, Evan, is the Vic Fangio impact because you mentioned the offense typically does win the day. In the NFL, the best offense is find a way to get to the big game.
With the Chiefs and the Eagles a year ago.
And Eagles defense is pretty good too, but offensively those teams could fly out role. But I'm curious how you think Vic Fangio can come back off a year away from the game and put his fingerprints on this defense and all of a sudden has Jalen Ramsey to go along with Xavi and Howard and Javon Holland and Christian Wilkins and Jalen Phillips and Bradley Chubb.
It's it's a who's who of star players out there. Can he get them going right away? Do you think.
It's to me? And I look, I this might be a little bit of a hot take, but I think the biggest addition to the AFC East is Big Fangio. And I know Aaron Rodgers is going to be the one that gets all the headlines, but Vic Fangios terrifies me because I just feel like he's going to get that Dolphins defense to the point where they aren't just a bunch of star players with big names and actually
aren't playing as a unit as one. And I know under the Flores they had really good stretches, but really I felt like what happened with that was like the zero Blitch package just took people by surprise, and they didn't exactly hadn't really seen something as exotic and as different as that, and a coach that was willing to dial up the pressure as consistently as the boyer you know,
Flores Era, if you will, were able to do. And then last year I was just stunned by even against the Patriots, who, let's face it, tray they stunk offensively last year. But some of the decisions that the Dolphins made on defense from a schematic perspective and like a game plan perspective, I'm mainly talking about the second game
up here in New England. They were playing man to man and just allowing the Patriots to single up you know, Hunter Henry and some of their other guys that could actually get open against man coverage and making the picture
pretty clear for mac Jones. They were really predictable in that game, and that was the only reason why the Patriots were able to move the ball a little bit offensively against them, because it certainly wasn't the Patriots master game plan or or they're great play calling that was
allowing them to do it. So I was shocked how much you know, man blitz they played in that game and just straight cover one they played against the Patriots, because that was the one thing the Patriots could could do was if you're gonna man up against us, we're gonna give our skill guys a chance to make plays down the field. And we feel pretty good about it. It was defenses that like Fangio's that play you know, too high palms, like these different coverages that Fangio has
really popularized across the league. Now that that give the Patriots a ton of problems, like deciphering the difference between you know, Cover six and quarters and three and Fangio's system is not easy, Like it's something that really starts to blend together. So I'm concerned as a Patriot fan about Fangio being in the division because you look at the talent is clearly there, right, you got Chubb, you got you know, Jalen Phillips, you got Christian Wilkins, you
got all the guys in the secondary. Like this is a really, really talented defense, and they just haven't necessarily been put in the best positions to succeed always. And the last thing I just remembered about that second matchup, they were down to like their like fifth or six cornerbacks right like it was like Keon Crossing and like some practice squad guys playing and they were still playing man to man against the Patriots. So they're not going
to do that this time this year. You know, they'll be well coached and they'll be ready to go.
A lot of long past interferences last year that really kind of extended drives and input points on the board, Like you mentioned, the attrition of the cornerback spot was it was clearly a focus this off season going and getting Jalen Ramsey and then turning around spending your first draft pick on Cam Smith, another cornerback that can play both inside and outside there as well. So I think they're pretty well intent on not letting that happen again
this year. And you know, it's kind of funny because you mentioned some of those Patriots defenses in the paper Tiger Element. I kind of thought the same thing was true of some of those Dolphins teams from yesteryear. They would really get after backup quarterbacks when you see Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen, and they would go for thirty five to forty points on you. So hopefully, hopefully no more of that going into the future.
Here.
Really good stuff there, Evan. I agree with you on pretty much everything you said. Gonna be a fun battle here in the AFC East. Let's go ahead and finish up with this real quick and just real briefly on each of these categories. Want to get your take. We've done this for all eight divisions now talking about the division superlatives, the best players in the division by these categories,
and we start this one to me is obvious. I'll go ahead and throw it to anyways, who do you think is a top quarterback in the AFC East in twenty twenty three?
Still Josh Allen to me, I think that he's still the best and most dangerous quarterback until I see Aaron Rodgers play like he did a couple of years ago at an MVP level. I still would give it to Josh Allen. But We talked about it a little bit in the Buffalo. I know it's supposed to be a quick answer. That's not really my thing, man. Yeah, we
talked about a little bit with Buffalo. But his superpower is his athleticism and his ability to extend plays and make things happen in like that playground back, you know, backyard football style. If they want him to play more in structure to preserve him, I wonder if that is making him play too left handed. And at what point do you have to just say this is our guy, like, this is what he does, this is what he's good at.
So I would put Dak caveat on Josh Allen, but I still think he's the best quarterback in the division.
You go back and watch the Week three game last year against Miami when he was forced to take the short stuff all game long. You could just see a bubbling and prickolating in terms of how frustrated he was by doing that and not being able to get off those those big plays and scramble plays that he makes
so routinely so far this point of his career. But that's that's my pick as well, Josh Allen, until someone else proves otherwise, how about your top player on offense that's not a quarterback in the AFC East.
I'm going Tyreek Hill. I think Tyreek Hill. And look the Patriots. He mentioned it with John Jones. I always ask John Jones, like, how do you cover Tyreek Hill better than anybody else? And his response is always just run really fast, Like just just run fast. He's like, there's no like secret to it. It's just with him, it's not about building up speed, it's not about like pacing out the route. It's you need to get on
your horse instantaneously. And I don't think if there's anybody else and maybe in all of football that's as dangerous or as scary on a football field as Tyree Kill because he can just house it from anywhere at any time really in any type of route. Like he can take a slant, he can take a drag and go eighty yards, or it can beat you over the top eighty yards to the house. So I'm going Tyreek Hill high.
I still think he's I guess maybe DeVante Adams like has a case, is the best receiver in football, but I would definitely say Tyreek Hill has got a case.
We've had that We've heard that a few times in the podcast and would definitely appreciate the love for our guy down here and just the way he's so detailed in his routes who I think really gets underrated in terms of how he can create separation and continue and I should say finish each route because some guys can kind of cut those things off sometimes, but he is detailed to the to the tea and gets that stuff executed. So the next one here, I think, is where you
have a lot of options. I'm curious to hear where you go. I think pretty much every team in the division could put someone forth and say this might be the best player, but the best defensive player in the AFC East.
Who who you taking this year?
Oh man?
A tough one.
That is a tough one. So the way I see it, I guess, you know, based off of last year and solely just off of last year, I'd probably give it to Quentin Williams at the moment, But I don't know if you're looking at it, you know, it all depends on how you look at it, I guess, but I think just strictly based off of who was the best
player last year defensively in the division. I'd probably give it to Quentin Williams, but each team has a guy that could dominate, Like you said that that has a really good case.
Yeah, that's probably my pick two. If I want to go Homer, i'd probably go one of our guys down. I mean, Christian Wilkins had a hell of a year. I you know the guy that I want to float that I think is going to have a monster year this year, Stealan Phillips. He's really been coming on and was really good in terms of pressure. The quarterback just had so many pressures where it was like the balls out in two point three seconds, you know, Tom Brady
style for the Patriots there for so long. So he's kind of my dark horse pick to maybe be the answer to that question next year. But I think Quinn Williams right now might be my pick as well. And then I think this one's pretty obvious as well. I'm not gonna go away from the goat the legend that he is. But the top coach in the AFC is just for posterity, Evan.
You know, it depends on who you ask up here right now. Yeah, He's It's funny because I think that there would be probably twenty nine teams that would fire their coach immediately and hire Bill Belichick if he became available. But yet here in New England it's a what have
you done for me lately? Town? And at some point I don't think it's yet, but if this isn't start to turn around, and based off of the decisions I really think that Belichick made last year with the coaching staff has really left a sour taste in people's mouths. And Brady leaving was sort of strike one, and they were like willing to give him a little bit of a leash to say, Okay, like the greatest coach of all time, we're not going to pick you over a
player that only has two more years left. But now that they did what they did last year with the coaching staff, his his good favor is starting to run a little bit thin in New England. I don't think it's quite at hot seat territory yet, but it's certainly at like warm warm butt season in New England. But it's still Bill Belichick. I'd still give it to him, although I will say that I think Sean McDermott is a really good coach as well.
That's my pick as well.
I think we have again, just like the rest of the division in general, I think you have four really good coaches here that I think are going to be here for a long time.
So great stuff there, Evan.
We got to finish this one too, which I'm going to be a homer and take the Dolphins. I'm just going to say it right now, but give me your pick for AFCAS champion this year.
I'm gonna just I'm gonna play it safe and say Buffalo. I still think that they're the best team in the division until proven otherwise. I always sort of operate under that. But I think what's cool about the division and I don't know if i'd necessarily include the Patriots yet, but I do think that three out of the four teams
have a real case to win the division. And talk to me in like you know, Halloween about the Patriots, right, like, maybe they show me something in the first half of the season, because I do think they have the talent in the two phases of the game, three phases of the game. You want to include special teams in the coaching to be competitive in the division, especially if one star receiver decides to come here. So I think that
they have the chance to be in that mix. But right now, I'd say it's a three horse race and I'll give it to Buffalo. But if you told me in January that you know, the Jets or the Dolphins won the division, I wouldn't be totally shocked either.
It's gonna make for a very, very fun season this year.
At Easy Lazarre on Twitter, Evan Lazar, Patriots dot Com Catch twenty two podcasts. Evan, appreciate your time today, man. I want to give you a chance for to go ahead and promote what you're working on over the summer. Maybe you're going on vacation. That's why I'm getting all these prev podcasts cranked out right now so I can play them out over the summer. So I'm going back home for a couple of weeks, I'm not even gonna
turn on a computer. What are you looking forward to doing the summer and what are you working on there at Patriots dot com.
Yeah, we will have vacations.
You know.
My my co worker is on vacation for the next couple of weeks and then I go on vacation. So we're kind of staggering them a little bit. But we have some things going on on Patriots dot Com. We'll do you know, roster projections, camp preview, summer previews, sort of roster reset versions of those, and then before you know it, as you know, Travin will be at training camp in a month and it'll be to you know, go time. So we still do the podcasts, Catch twenty
twos once a week, Patriots Unfiltered twice a week. Even in the dead season here of the off season, we still do the pods and the radio shows and things like that, So we'll still have you covered the Patriots. Like I keep kind of hinting at, you know, in the DeAndre Hopkins sweepstakes, there's some hotfield stuff going on with Jack Jones that we're gonna be covering and things like that as well. So there's never a dull moment. They're always in the news somehow, so we'll have you covered.
Yeah. Even the six week break of the NFL that we get every year is like still still talking football, man. I this is my time of year to kind of go back and watch them tape and look at you know, to kind of get ready for the season and just see what I might expect for the upcoming NFL season.
So Evan, you.
Said it all, man, appreciate your time today and go find that beach somewhere man and kick those feet up.
Yeah you as well.
Thanks, Thanks Evan.
And what he doesn't know, or if he does know but maybe didn't realize there is I live twenty five minutes from the beach.
I go there all the time. My daughter loves the beach. All right, that's gonna be it for the AFC East preview. We have one more of these to do.
The NFC East will be on Thursday, and then we're going to be back to five days a week and maybe even six days depending on how the schedule works out for training in preseason games. But we have arrived, man, the season is here.
We're gonna be.
Doing positional previews and rolling out some more of the walking talks the next couple of weeks and then in what two weeks from now or so, give or take training camp, which you know where to go for the best reporting on Miami Dolphins training camp right here on the Draft Time podcast, also on Twitter at Winkle NFL and the Miami Dolphins dot com Training camp notebook, all coming your way this summer this fall in the meantime,
that's gonna be my time. You all, please be sure to subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, Stitcher, tuned in Google Play, wherever you get your podcast from. Leave us a rating, leave us a review. You can follow me on Twitter, like I mentioned at Winkle NFL, the team at Miami Dolphins. Check out the fish Tank Podcast with Seth and Juice. Check out the YouTube channel for media availabilities, Dolphins Today and so much more, and
last but not least, Miami Dolphins dot Com. Until next time, Finn's Up, Caroline and Cameron, Daddy is coming home.