Episode 492 w/ Fab 5 Freddy

He is drinks chests, motherfucking podcast man.

He's a legends every queens rapper.

He ain't agreed as your boy in O r E. He's a Miami hip pop pioneer put up as d j e f N.

Together they drink it up with some of the biggest players you know, me and the most professional unprofessional podcast and your number one source for drunk drinks chans mother fu Postquavery Days.

New Year's c that's his time for drink champs. Drink up, mother, mother? What a it gonna be hoping to beat your boy n A O n A What up his dj e f N. This is the military crazy war. Yeah, you have a drinks champs. Yep, you have a man. Ye. When we started this show, we started this saying that we wanted to give flowers to legends, to people who are eye cars, people who came before us, people who have knocked down the door for us. In many ways,

I was directed mad videos. The first video I directed a little before your TV rap started.

Was my philosophy for Kris.

Hold On because I don't don't want to, all right, because I want the kid invest out Brooklyn to you, Yeah, yeah, I want to. You just said your first video, this is your first video? Correct that I directed? Direction directed?

Okay, so for making Wild Style, that was my film school, I like to say.

Right, so so so let's let's let's let's lets let's bring people to the beginning, right, got it? How did you how did you camera? How did you like start thinking that? Because music videos wasn't the thing at the time, No, it was actually radio records and then so eventually it got.

It was to MTV that music videos really tolew up on a national basis. Yeah, so how did you start?

Yes?

Okay, Well I've just written a memoir which is just so many stories I've been just dying to share with people because it's been more.

Than a blessing.

But I definitely started out with a mission. But I came from some place so growing up around my people, I had jazz musicians, my hops. If I had a neclected group of friends, very intelligent young brothers that was wanting changed.

You know what I'm saying.

Things were beginning to happen as they were coming up. Max Roach was my godfather, godfather and my dad's childhood friends. I used to pick up on a lot of the game around these guys. They was mad hip it was puffing cannabis.

Jazz was like the first hip hop if you think about it, thank you, thank you.

And even in the beginning.

Of jazz, they would looked at as worse than gangster rats.

Just come on, now, let's get it.

Don't get it twisted talking racism, you know, one of them things that go on. So this is developing in the nineteen twenties, so this was the way a lot of our culture have been pigeonholed and looked at. So for me, get it having inspired and learning things what I grew up around my pop's friends, Max Roach. You know, these cats were incredible artists, but not always so they used to I used to hear them complain about not

But it's like, hey, I'd like to do this too, So those things.

Kind of rubbed off. So growing up.

Being a wild kid and bed star doing you know whatever, you know, how we come up and doing. I began to you know, I used to cut school and go to the library.

Okay, I was to school and went to a different type of school school to get educated.

I would cut school and go to the museums in New York City. That was like going to Disney Line. I go to the Metropolitan Museum.

Win.

That was just mad curious man though right correct.

Back in the days in the schools they would give you.

Every month you got a different pass. We can get on the trains and buses for free. I was just entertained myself and travel around. At the same time, in the seventies.

Graffiti was strong.

It was everywhere, and it was developing from just writing your name wherever it needed to be, to the letters, the characters, the cases began to evolve, and so I began to Having looked a been in museums a lot and looked at.

The work of pop artists.

Andy Wahall Lichtenstein Rauschenberg, like I just absorbed all of that. I'm like, wait a minute, the stuff that we's doing in the subway is very similar.

They inspired by the same stuff.

I didn't realize that that that was the connection.

So then I'm like, man, if I could figure out a way to, you know, tell this story and just.

Get to some people that would listen to this.

This is before there was any appreciation hip hop is still not even hip hop yet. It's just wild parties going on. I begin to think, like, what is happening there with the music, What's happening with this type of visual art which is really evolving.

There's the former dance. This is a new culture.

If I could get to a position where I can share that with people, you know, that would be a jump off. Plus, I was interested in taking my work from having done graffiti to getting into the gallery spaces, and the idea was to make this film Wild Stops. I had this idea to combine all of those things together. That's the directing part. It comes from no that becomes the first film. I collaborated with a guy named Charlie ahearn Okay, and I pitched the idea to him.

He was so your brainchild.

To be clear, basically, the basic idea that Charlie was with it.

He has seen Lee and Jonis's work and it.

All came out before b Street correct Wild Style is the first, this is the this is the.

Face had some good elements in it. Now, there was a lot of other movies that came out, Wrapping, Breaking, Breaking, two, three four, it was all trash, you know what I'm saying, like, let's just cash in on this. Harry Belafonte and them, they produced that and they was they had good intention and a lot of good heads is in that. But they followed the blueprint that we laid down, which is how the game goes. You know, copy from the best. But basically me and this cat Charlie got collaborated, went

See I like it sounds like a place.

I like, no, this is.

Just to put it in perspective, like, yes, obviously pre internet, like this is pre hip hop, this is definitely yeah.

So like you had to.

Like really go into these places, yes that you kind of heard something was going on, to actually experience it.

The way the music really traveled back then was ya a boombox and I always had a double cassette. So if you, if you was blessed enough to get close to it, your baby, run me a copy. That's what them double concess Okay, man, I run off for ninety minute whatever sixty tep for you. And then the music spread and that's how the music really got it.

It was viral. That was the way to go perfection.

That was the origin, the origins of viral hand but it was hand to hand, you know, really great vine type of stuff. And so the idea was to put all this stuff in the film and showcase it. And that's the movie we made co while style. But I learned a little bit about filmmaking because I was like, you're like the co producer. And then what became when I walked in, Y was playing some of the instrumentals from the film.

I wanted to use your real music. I'm like, what the hell is?

Everything was so underground, but We was connected with Theodore and Flash and Charlie Chase and Tony Ton you know, we was connected with the core of the scene. And Charlie said, no, we can't use those records. And I said, okay, I'm gonna go and make this music. So I pulled together bass player, a drummer, you know, listen to some beats, you know, and told them, YO, give me something like this. And then Chris Stein from Blondie. Him and Kirsten Debbie

Blondie record, Yeah.

That's what So that record rapture comes out of me, Yo, this is what's going on new culture. That shouted me out, shout it out, Flash, you know, say Freddy told me everybody's fly by the way. It's the title of my memoir. And it was just all love. But they really appreciated shouted out what I was doing. You know, don't strain your brain, pain and train. But nobody really knew who I was at the time, but it really put the spark in people like what is this all about?

And it just became a number one. Blondie was like like the lady God got that that era description and yeah, that's a real good description.

And in fact, Lady Gaga was on the club scene coming up. My man Troy Carter brother out of Philly, managed to end the beginning. Get the hell Carter is a genius. You need to have him come through here.

He's just like Madonna was exposed as like they were all in those club scenes.

Yeah, well you're mingling with the hip hop scene as well.

That's right, and you know, we was all tight. And when she came on the scene. Mark Caimans, who produced some of her first records, here, fabous, this is this girl just in from d Detroit.

I'm working on her first records.

But Donna's from Detroit. Yes, oh really yeah, hoodie yeah ye from mom Yeah, okay, you stole that on us. You know you got you got Frank Ocean Blondie motherfucker.

Yeah, rapture, here you go.

No, you gotta go to raps.

Trying to find that one.

Yeah, there you go. Yes, now now you know you don't know, but in New York City record was everywhere else. I mean I was onhere you don't want to be.

Yeah, that's crazy, that's okay. But Number one records wild.

So how does this record coup about?

So basically, once again, in my pursuit to make connections with people to get the movie made and connect and to get things popping, and you know, with with with my visual art and everything, we became really tight. And I'm playing tapes for them, I'm running it down and I'm seeing the comparison between what's developing in the Bronx and the way the new wave and the punk rock scene jumped off, because I just happened to catch on to that early.

And I'm reading this is that's why what they're doing. But that's kind of like what rat was doing, like because they had the spikes, so people were mistaking it for punk rock at first, right, like a black version of punk rock.

That's exactly right, because those things was happening some people, like when Flashing them got real wild, it was like.

A punk funk thing.

There was syenergy, but no, but they was also oh, they was looking at what Rick James and then was doing whatever, which was all good, but it was in the air at that time. But basically they had told me that they wanted to make some funkier music. I mean, out of that new wave scene. They were literally like the biggest group. They just went mainstream in a really cool way, but they still was really about the underground

Tracks on you.

They played me a couple of songs and then they said, okay, here's something a little different.

And then when they put.

It on, I'm like, you know, the singing part, I'm like, wow, this is fly. And then when she starts rapping, I'm like, wow, this is crazy.

I totally thought that.

This was just something they did in the studio, goofing, just to let me hear, because they never said we're gonna try to do a rap record or whatever whatever serious and I thought just that they was playing around in the studio. Here's a special little something just to play for Freddy, you know whatever.

Whatever.

So I loved that, and that was so cool. That's how I thought it was. It wasn't until two months later I was in Paris for the first time after my second art show in Italy, and I'm hanging out actually with two members of the Talking Heads, and we get into a cab on our way to a restaurant and I hear this song in a cab.

I'm like, how does this cab driver like, no, it's you right? No? How does he get a copy of this suit hits the radio? Yeah?

Yeah, they said, Freddie, this is the next Blondie single. This is the next Blondie single on a new album. And I'm like, I never thought it was going to be like a serious runner. I thought they was just playing it goes on to be number one?

Did you think it was Maybe they might be looked at as like a clowning parody of hip hop at the time, No, hmm.

You know, I wasn't too concerned about that because rap, I mean, probably the only thing most people had heard at that time was rappers D light, so nobody was really.

Interestating backlash as well from within the culture.

Well yeah, for obvious reasons.

But in the country, mainstream people had no it was a fun record.

People didn't know it was a real culture.

That's one of the things I wanted to show in Wild Style, which is a part of what WildStar ends up doing. It shows who we are because our decision was to use all the artists, the musicians, the graffiti writers, the breakdances, the b boys, girls to play themselves, you feel. That was one of the concepts me and Charlie came up with for the film.

But basically it.

Was a surprise to me that the record caught on.

The way it did.

I was like, Yo, it's cool that they did it, that they shouted me out, They talked about things we was doing, you know, they shout it out Flash.

It was just like things I told them.

I said, Yo.

As far as DJ's Flash is known for being, you know, super fast with it, fly guys and Fly Girls is how to scene.

You know, to people who represent put the she she freaked it the artist.

Does yeah, exactly, put her own little spin on it.

And it just was a lot of love, you know what I mean.

And so oh so the other interesting thing about the video. So I had told Flash to come through because you know, we're working on putting grand Master Flash by the way, guys le.

Grandmaster Flash.

And so because we're still in production pre production on make the movie Wild Style, and so ik new flashing them. I say, yo, come through. This record just came out. You know, you get a shout out, you know, shot me on the record. Come through and be in the video videos wasn't really a thing yet. And Flash says, Okay,

So Jean Michelle, that's my man too.

That we was all think, Joe Michelle even, yeah too much. Stop me for one second, please remember that story. Right. But the other day, I'm sitting there, right, I had posted a picture with pun and I go to a can forget. I think it was a sneakers stall and the kid is just telling me and he's just asking me about fun and I'm sitting there and all the

Like I'm getting in your business man, like it gets even deeper in these pages that and everybody wanted to people another one.

So how did you meet Boskia? How did this? And let me let me get let me get let me get you the first question. Sure? Sure? Did you know how special he was when he was here?

In a way, yes, like the way you knew plumbing special or somebody that you rock with. Did y'all become like comrades in the game and you respect him, you respect you and y'all trying to get it, get it popping.

It's like it really was just that.

But let me coach you for one second, super pun, there was a heavy d there was a biggie before him. There was there's no other before and there's happening to be no other. So now this course is a little tougher.

I'm sorry, No, No, that's you're one hundred percent correct because it's very few black artists that were able to make the moves, particularly that gen made that we made, and these were things what was so dope about connecting with him? Like I told you, I cut school and used to go to museums museums all over the city. I got very familiar essentially with the history of art, not like on a scholarly level, but a lot of different genres of art I looked at in the museums.

I would look at books and read a little.

I got.

You know, it's an ongoing process, but I was like wow. And then like reading about a certain painter or seeing some work that you feel and then you could stand right in front of it like in the museum, like in the gallery first, and that was like, oh my god. I felt like a connection to that. So when I connect with people on the downtown in New York, like Kristian Debbie from Blondie, Glenn O'Brien rest in Peace, there was a whole bunch of cool people I connected with that.

But he would write.

These little phrases like they would be checking people or really make you think, like messages if you will, kind of poetic, but he would be putting people in check, like one I remember he was like same o, checking those who are on the scene, trying to play art with daddy's money, or little things like that that would be like, oh, yeah, that's really.

What's going on.

Yeah, this would be little tags that would google it. You'll see what these same old tags look like. And he was just writing them, so there was very like you would see them if he was moving through the village.

He would hit a few trains.

Him and his cat al Diz did it together. But then Jean just you know, became like the he became the face of it, so to speak. And so he had did that for a while. But he also was very creative. He was trying to figure things out and thinking about being an artist. He was he was in a band for a while. That was a cool thing to be on that downtown scene, to be in a band. So we meet and then it's like right away he's very aware of art history because you know, coming up

Band thing.

So when me and Jean connect and I'm like, yo, he hood he from Haiti, He from Haiti. But you know, we had similar backgrounds. Both our fathers was like accountants and whatever. But he was like, you know, he basically had left home. His pops wasn't with it, yo, you know, and John just broke off. So he was in the village making moves, bouncing around. And so when we connect, it was like, yo, I know about Warhall, Jasper, John's Rosenberg,

Then we as people see.

The things that I've done with the art thing, and I'm opening and bringing other helping other graffiti casts as me and Lee. The name starts to our names start to ring a little bit. And then we're working on Wild Style where we're gonna feature this so other casts

We was, you know, the move was on, you feel me, and.

It began to take. It began to you know, come together in ways.

That you know, I mean, look at the impact to today, Like we're in wind Wood right now, an.

Example of what that exactly?

Right, let me ask you, Like I said, I knew problem with especially I didn't know how special he was. I didn't know how legendary he was. I didn't know how much he meant to the people till after he passed away and I got to see it, and I see the impact, and I got to realize that my friend always belonged to the world. I thought he was just my friend, you know what I'm saying, and like for not But what we we got to do was we got I got to do records for him. He

That's funny no, but but people ask all the time because of the whole undisbelievable phenomenal success of everything. It's really it's really like a remarkable thing, and the numbers associated with his work, which is just insanity. People often always ask, yo, you gotta ain't at work because you know, ridiculous.

I got a punt birse somewhere later around.

No, it's such a great comparative, you know, type of situation you and pun, me and Jean and me and other friends that were.

Artists, well artists.

Often times we do is they we give each other work or just make a trade.

Like yo, man, I like that.

Yo, okay, I got you. You know what I'm saying.

So those kind of things is how we dealt with each other in terms of the work or whatever.

But yeah, with Jean, like it was just a unique situation.

He had a sincere understanding of going forward in a really hard way and it was such a unique individual. Like you would cut his head in real wild kind of ways, you know, dreadlocks.

Growing his he was hot top.

He would do real wild different things.

It looks so cool now, but did it look cool back then? Yeah?

But sometimes like being that you know, you got the ignorance that goes along with like racism and whatever. A lot of people was real cool on the scene, but sometimes we'd be making a move walking down certain areas.

This is before Soho or.

Any of that.

Downtown was anything like it is now, and people sometimes seeing us, but particularly Jean, they cross on the other side of the street his head. People dreadlocks were still a new thing, but that's like a come on, what you being so stupid? Then that becomes a style now that people replicate all over the world, but at that time it was really extreme. You really didn't see a lot of that, but people would just react really negatively.

People of color and things changed.

But but definitely Jean, you know, it's just an incredible cat, real cool. We had a lot of fun going to clubs doing things. But uh, you know, he definitely just exploded, which was amazing to see it happened.

It was was he like the because we hear other and this is pure ignorance, correct question. All we hear other black artists, but we don't hear other black cool artists, right right. Was there other artists before him? Yeah? There was, There was.

There was definitely other black artists because of the segregation, and it was a black art scene for sure. That goes back to the time of the Harlem Renaissance and like and what have you. You know what I'm saying, artists like Romar Beard and Jacob Lawrence. There's incredible black artists that made incredible work. A part of the Harlem Renaissance happening was black folks for the first time in our history being in this in this country, and you obviously know the history.

We was coming, we was migrating.

It was called a great migration from the South, and still oppression after slavery ended, Black folks was like we going north, were trying to get to Chicago. We're trying to get to New York. Even though they probably raised the prices on us. We were trying to get away from all that pressure that we.

Were still under.

And I like to think that the celebration that went on of kind of feeling free for the first time that really created the Harlem Renaissance. So people began to start writing intellectual stuff, you know.

Like Harlem Art Flourish and our flourish, you know.

Marcus Garvey, like we move in politics, like we really exercising all the elements. And so they were artists, incredible visual artists at that time, and there were writers like Langston used like zor Neil Hurston.

There's a whole you know, why was the the artist hip hop and breeze. That's a great.

Question, And I guess it's the cool factor.

This is so great to see all this chance.

You I'm trying to throw you. That's a bit of that.

But yeah, absolutely so was.

It was it back then? Was not seen embracing him because I want to see sorry, I want to look at it like you you are to go all right, this this art and hip hop right, Yeah, hip hop is art right correct, that's one man percept. But I want to credit you. This is my opinion. This is this is not bad saying. It's just me saying that what the person who brong art into hip hop?

Yeah, I pulled that true because because now you see, you see jay Z.

I had a conversation with jay Z for two minutes and he was talking to me about art. I knew nothing he was talking about, but I was saying so.

Once again, I was like, yep, because I did so at that point in the game, clearly you're getting I'm the kind of helping lay down the foundations of this.

And it's not too many people.

But in the conversations Jean and I would have, these are things we would sometimes talk about. We knew that we would eventually get it. It's just that we was in position at a time. We was just way ahead.

And so.

What I think a part of what happened is which was fascinating for me because most people know me from what I've done, even though my foundation and background is making art, exhibiting all of that stuff. Along with Jean and these other people, I had other interests as well, to work in film to work in music. Jean did as well, and so Jean starred in a film called Downtown Edy One. We talked about producing movies. We was into foreign films. He turned me on the foreign films.

I turned him on.

This stuff like the surrealist films of Lewis Bounell, that Salvador Dolly worked with them doing wild stuff on films.

So we was he everybody he was Yeah, it was like a surrealist, but he was a brilliant guy. That was.

That was a big influence on what Andy because he was the most famous artist until Andy, like he became that that was a very specific thing and so damn, these are the things that we were We were all focused on, you know at the time, and uh, you know, and Jean definitely we were. This is the part of the thing that we shared. We were both aware of, you know, how the game had been played, but being artists of color, how to maneuver and how to make

And so it felt like the all of these, all of these scenes are like the counterculture scenes of the time that were correct, correct, correct, kind of they kind of saw kinship and all being counterculture.

Absolutely, And that's the part of what I dug too, even though I'm a little kid when I'm reading about stuff that happened in the sixties, when Andy just popped off and.

The Warhol, Andy Warholl were.

Talking about the sixties, we talk in rock and roll, We talking that whole cultural revolution.

That went on.

Andy Andy controlled, he didn't control. Andy was like dominant forcing that, and so looking at those other elements, and plus they was having mad fun, we'd all look so cool to us. So we definitely were inspired by that and looking to do in some regards our version of that,

Now someone's the same question with Andy Warhol. Right, if a person has Andy Warhol in the house, right, that is like a safe that's that's like you know, you shouldn't even have it in your house. Yeah, it's crazy. Now.

That's why once again the question that I get asked about if I have Bosky, It's like, wow, it's an awkward question.

I feel like you guys like stuff that he do. That said because.

Because of the value, like like you got people that have you know, when the art gets that crazy, you have to have.

You have to secure it. It has to be ensured.

You want to you have to have next levels of.

You know, security.

Sometimes it's like like do you want to have you know, you got to make sure everything is right.

It's crazy because.

Do you feel weird though that you're in certain country? But do you feel weird that your friend's work is so valuable and that you now you have maybe something of value that but this was just your friend, you know what it is?

It is you know, the whole thing about John, not just that the whole way it's developed. It's just phenomenal that his unfortunate, it's so unfortunate that his life was so short. But that the effect continues and resonates at a level that's just unprecedented, and that's so dope for me twenty seven which unfortunately people talk about.

Twenty seven Club exactly. That's crazy.

Jimmy Hendricks, Jimmy Wyerson, Amy white House, someone just recently just wow, passages I forget.

Because that's what a bunch of sixties once again iconic people that just was happening and running things. Jim Morrison, right, Jim Morrison, Jimmy Hendrix, Jannis Choplin, probably some others. So it's just an unfortunate thing. But oh the other thing, I lost the train of thought to answer something you

Of hip hop folks curious.

People will run up on me, You're father, like I was checking, you know, this cat out Sean Michelle whatever, you know, it's hard to say his name at first. Now people can say.

It, right, Yo.

I saw that, you know, y'all was hanging and everything like what's up with that? And I'm like, well, and I love that so much because I'm like, this is one of the things once again, Jean and I wanted, we wanted our people to connect with it. People coming from where we're coming from the understand this.

And that has happened in great ways now.

So as far as black artists that I talked a little bit about from the Harlem Renaissance or whatever, and it was popping black artists all through time, they just was kind of like everything largely was segregated. Now there's a lot of younger black artists that are doing things that are definitely making serious inroads. And because of the awareness, more people are now looking at those older black artists

That's another stupid question. It's not stupid.

Who painted the Good Times poster? Oh that's a great question, by the way. That's an artist named Ernie Barnes. Ernie actually was an NFL football player and sand and his side thing was just doing He had this unique style of doing them characters and then be and in Good Times and Marvin Gaye's album I want to say, what's going on?

What's going on? Made?

That's the cover. He did the cover art.

It made him iconic, and once again, I think he's passed away, but there's a people now realizing his work that that value and you know is.

And I think Eddie Murphy said he has the original exactly believe it's eight million dollars or.

Once again, which is a reflection of the fact that people are like, oh my god, this is an important work of art. It was also connected to the TV show to a great album. So that's another very good point, like Ernie Bond's incredible incredible.

Yes, yes, real quick, I want to go back to the making a wall style and yes, the place, the time frame that is being made this is is this pre Zulunation or Zolnation around this time as well.

Good question.

I think that's probably around the time because we like we're doing this early eighties and a lot of that happened.

You know, this story about Zulu Nation and whatever and bringing all the gangs together, coming.

To gang, the gangs coming together, so so the gang thing kind of ends. That's a wind down late seventies, like from Brooklyn. But that was kind of you know, you look at the documentaries and so that they begin after that, and as the parties grew.

You know, you would hear uh you know, you know, the Zulu Nation.

Because BAM's name was growing as playing records at that in that side of the Bronx and whatever. He was strong and other groups around him, Soul Sonic and a few other ike you see. You know, it was a bunch of other things under that. But Yo, while Star was like I would say, when we started making a movie Rappers the Delight, I don't think have really even.

Come out that came out.

I don't think the time Charlie and I had begun to really work on the film, there was some local records that came out that I thought were very important, like on the label called Enjoy like super rapping, and then Spoony g. It was like a solo So there were a few things that came out, but it was sugar Hill the rappers d Light really opened a lot of people up because they got it charted or like across the country. Yes, that's one of the kind of

Of how they did their graffiti.

So it caught a lot of people once you if you were tapped into the downtown scene and were very curious, like who is this cat? And when he emerges and we actually meet at this party, it's a great story in my memoir. I meet these guys that have a big loft, like and they're trying to create this like scene, like this art scene, and they and me and Lee connect with them and we painted these big class lead sheets. Lee star and is he Puerto Rican?

Yes he is, He's Puerto Rican? Lee, Yes, he thought it was him that's his name is mister Lee. Mister he got yeah.

Now was like the pinnacle of graffiti. What he had did that was like groundbreaking at that time.

Obviously, most graffiti really is on.

The size of trains, the letters, the characters are developing.

The colors. Lee paints on.

An entire handball card, the image of how.

It can you remember the story? Absolutely? I didn't realize how racist people are. WHOA. I went to a handball court the other day. Ship.

Oh.

My comments was now we really know you Puerto Rican. I'm like, oh wow, it was the most racist black people played him.

Ball to y'all.

But you know what the fun up Ship, well was they did. They just attacked my Puerto Rican side, bro like they destroyed me like they was like it was like your only Puerto Ricans is going it was. It was the coldest day in Miami. I saw in Miami and I found out there was a handball I could not exist. Was like this real Puerto Rican Ship. I'm like, damn, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I had he said that.

He used to do pieces of my hand damn giant handball card.

The image of how with the duck.

It was like, wow, nobody had did anything like that. You know, I was up about twenty thirty feet, you know, And so Lee was the master of the game. And when I connected with him with these ideas once again we said, he was like, let's get busy and do this, and that led to us having an exhibit at a

A next level of pop art.

And when he saw who we were and we had I was standing in front of Lee's wall.

In fact, because Lee.

Along with being super super dope one of the best that was doing it.

He was the.

He was the most warned graffiti artist in New York City. They literally have like posters wanted by the by the transit police at the time. It was like real serious. So so so Lee had the kids. Part of his part of the skill of being nice in the game

You know.

We inspired by the same stuff as Warhol, Roy, Lichtenstein, whatever whatever. This is how this our dealer gave.

Us a show and that was huge.

He's like the original what's the British dude that's anonymous? What was his name? The Wells is inspired by Least there describing it that you guys get it well Banks? Yeah, because Lee say he wants to meet Banks.

Yeah he's super low key, but he's no. But we we exchanged, you know people, because he keeps it low key but he definitely no. But you gotta you have to reach the people that have engaged.

But what he's doing is so specific.

You have to respected gangst of all that because it was brilliant. But I'm told he was inspired by Lee's character in Wildstyle because whoa least character and Wild Style is Zorrow. Essentially none of the other graph people know who he is, which is inspired by how Lee actually got down.

So that was weird.

The ideas of the story of Wild Style come from things that were going on all around us, like we're about to connect with the art scene.

We go to the art collective spot.

You know, Patty Asta plays the journalists coming to write about us, and you know, so it captures that period when the culture is just beginning to get taken serious and looked at in a in a wait a minute, what's going on here? What are you guys doing? And so, yeah, so that was but it's.

So rough it almost feels like a documentary reality. That's exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it feels.

Sort of like a docu drama because we intentionally wanted it to have an energy like that. Because all the people that play the characters were really who they were, so we gave them little direction, here's the idea of what we want you to say, say it how you'd say. And then you have people like Busy Bee, who literally is like a start.

He steals every scene he's in.

So when me and Charlie are going to the parties, constantly taking notes on who we want to put in the movie, Busy's just had this most unique personality. In fact, when we the first time we go to the Bronx to start our research.

We go to a park.

It's called a valley way up in the North Bronx and we walk in and we were checking things out. It's me and this white dude, Charlie, and we walk up on Busy and Busy kind of kind of what's going on? And then Charlie is like, Hey, I'm Charlie.

This is Fred.

We're here to make a movie on the rap scene, and Busy goes what Busy runs right up on the mic, brings Charlie up.

Yo, y'all, he's here.

To make a movie about me, about him, about him, And we became immediately connected because he's like, what's going on? Like you just see no no kind of white folks going out to the Bronx.

And that's in the Stick is the Stick Apart. You've talked about this before. There's like the part where the guys come up to like to rob y'all or something in the.

Oh God, yeah, that's at one of the parties we was at and this cat was on dust, big strong, overly muscle bound cat and I'm looking at this cat like this, this dude is crazy and and I'm like, Charlie, you know, because this is you want to stick up kids and all this is going on at this time every time. You know how I used to get down, and so going up to the Bronx, which is not my territory, I'm constantly thinking this every time.

But you know what Busy told.

Me, and I'll get back to the to the to the you know the big, big guy of a smoking dust. Busy told me when we first walked up to him, he thought we was the police, like the mod squad or some ship like a like a like a.

Par typical box people.

We didn't.

We looked like, who's this white guy? Here's this black guy with They gotta be undercovered. It's party, got to be playing clothes cops. This is this can't be happening and that and anyway. So we had this party one night and this dude is walking around looking crazy.

He had his shirt off, he cocked diesel.

Everybody's moving out of his way. And this is at a jam. So it's you know, people thugging it, but jam is.

A party, guys.

Yeah, the whole night we did. You know, cats is down. I remember Cold Crushes on the mic. You know, a bunch of cast of characters, you know, typical uptown party at that time. And I'm constantly going man, I hope this cat don't lock onto us because this looks like it'd be crazy. And then me and Charlie because Charlie would always have a camera and we're taking pictures. You know how, we did all the research, like you look

Six six everybody.

Yeah, he looked he definitely dusted because he dude's moving kind of kind of crazy. It's like, the fuck is going on? And so I'm looking for something to get my hands on because I'm thinking, yo, it's about to go down for real. So he walks right up to us. He's standing there, and Charlie goes fred, I think he wants me to take his picture. The ship was super white, funny, and the dude looked at Charlie.

And he just turned and slid off the ship. We must I.

Mean, I'm like, I swear to God, like I felt like I didn't breathe for two minutes because I'm like, yo, this is about to go down. He about to hit my man. You know, I got to jump in it. But this dude looked crazy, you know. Anyway, that was just one of many that was you know, nothing really went down, which basically is.

The whole thing.

Everything was cool, and we made the movie, which still is like a remarkable thing. Hold lot said so once, Like I said, so. One of the things I did I made all the instrumental beats because with Charlie was like no, which I mentioned earlier, and so I went into the studio and made basically what I was considering like a record of breakbeats, about eleven tracks, all instrumental.

Marti gras seven minutes, you know.

Things of that nature that the DJ classics, classic shit. And then we used those tracks and we pressed up about one hundred pieces of vinyl and that's what each.

DJ is cutting.

So they were playing them in the film.

Yeah, they literally playing them, and then that becomes our soundtrack. We record the Cold Crush, the Fantastic Busy in Them, Double Trouble, all rhyming in the movie that becomes our soundtrack.

Before we get into it.

But the reason why I went and asked about Zulu is because it sounds like when you made While Style, you kind of made a decision to bring these elements together.

Later on everybody would package as hip hop.

Yeah, well that's fun because not but later on.

Hip hop, you know, corporate America. The industry comes in soups, in.

Grabs rappers and kind of divides and conquers the culture and divides the elements. Again, very true, and we've been all ever since trying to hold it together.

Very true.

Wow, you definitely see it clearly.

Yeah, so at least, you.

Know, our attempt not that we could predict everything. We was just trying to represent it for what it was, based on that initial idea I had. I wanted to show this was all one thing, and I had this idea to make a film. Charlie was like, great, idea, let's make this film. We made that film and it kind of carved kind of an understanding of what the

Because some of the first tours to Europe.

We did the first tour of Europe, which was France, primarily about twenty or thirty of us, Yes, you know, we did that, and that they went crazy. That's still the second biggest market for hip hop in the world. And then we went to Japan the following year eighty three, about twenty about thirty of us Rock Steady Crew, Rap is Dgit whole shit. This is eighty eight, eighty three, eighty three, eighty three, when we go to we go to Europe in eighty two, we go to we go.

To Japan in eighty three.

Crazy told us about that.

Yeah, crazy, that was an incredible trip and that plants to diseased. But we had no idea it was going to take like it did. It's still remarkable to this day. Yeah, I mean is global and global in every kind of way you can imagine.

So, and sometimes represented even better in other countries.

That's so true, you know.

But you know what I find that I like is when you go to places where people it's like a level of poverty that, especially in New York.

You don't see anymore. Like, you know, that's what it is.

And these people, when you see the way it's applied and the way they adopted, it's like it reminds me of where it came from and how the Bronx was really bombed out. It was the most horrific ghetto on the planet because it was a poster child and from that Bronx, the way the Bronx in the seventies.

When I'm researching you, that's when I found out that that it was actually landlords that was burning down their property. Yeah, apartment. I didn't know that.

That's a big part that happened. It was a combination of things with people.

The burnt down Bronx, But I didn't know that it was self inflicted.

Listen, I you know what I'm saying, Like, I didn't.

Know that a lot of it was a lot of it was because it was was they can get more and get out with the insurance money.

I did not know that.

So it's huge in the Bronx and it was rampant.

They had people that was just like that's why it used the whole blocks in the South Bronx, but maybe one or two buildings left. It was just rubble. It was unbelievable. Looked like literally like bombs have been dropped. There's a famous I've seen I talk about in my book in the seventy seven Yeah, in the seventy seven World Series when the Yankees is playing seventy seven seventy seven Reggie Jackson, that hard show. I remember watching them

Come on, it was nothing.

It was like always worried in the Bronx and that was always like Arlen lu like you know a joke like burned down Bronx. But we didn't know that.

Yeah, participate from the South Bronx. Yes, yes, that was really devastated for.

Us from Queens. We just the Bronx was the Bronx talk for Brooklyn.

I didn't really know over that later like years later.

You know what I mean?

And this is where hip hop is born out of them, Like did you watch the Rubble Kings documentary.

I was so amazing.

Yeah, largely, what do you why did you say largely and not totally in terms of hip hop out those Yeah yeah.

Yeah, oh because the origins of hip hop or what leads to hip hop.

This is a lot of people.

Yeah, no question is look and people are entitled to their opinion.

But this is what happened.

Tell us this is what happens. Yes, there were.

DJs, and it's wait before I go, I'm gonna get I'm gonna run this down.

It's incredibly want to shot? You want to shot? You want to shot? Let's wait for big time, okay, because I feel like you're getting you know, no, listen.

I've been waiting, you know. I wanted to get on here and sham.

I'm sitting down like although I'm not to listen. I am in school right now. There stop. You know. You know what I can tell you what you know this is.

This is a good one that I'm passionate about it.

Okay, because obviously.

There's dollar different stories there is about the Jamaica connection and whatever and.

The dance hall.

I'm deep into that since the seventies as well.

Growing up in Brooklyn.

You know I'm going to you know, hearing all them early dancehall records. But there were DJs that, damn there, go back to the late sixties that were mobile DJs. They wasn't cutting or scratching that they was mixing one record to the other.

That was the big innovation.

Everybody else had a record player going back seventies, going in, going for the back. You put four or five forty fives and the arm would swing, drop a record.

It would play, and.

That's how people listen to music.

You understand what I'm saying.

They lost the DJs, what they were considered DJs.

No, you was just playing records, were just playing records. Now, the idea of the DJ what is that short for dis jockey?

Thank you? Who was the.

Disc jockey in those any time? Thank you? This is the real inspiration for what the dance hall DJs that sound system scene did in Jamaica and what these early DJs were doing here. They were emulating the black radio DJs like and because they was the ones talking kind of slick doing the talking over you had a little job talk slip slang. It was Jocko who was out of Philly in New York had a little slick shit

Records by talking over them and well just.

Really bigging up who the DJ was and shouting him out and promoting him. That was what the original foundation was because even.

In hip hop, the DJ was the man, way before.

Thank you DJ was the man. He had the system, he bought the music.

Colweys DJs didn't want to be better.

Believe it, Okay, that was one hundred percent and that was a huge scene that developed like like through the seventies, like Herkle tell you Pete DJ Jones, the original grand Master of Flowers. My boy, it was a list of these cats. Queen's had, people like the Disco Twins, you know, the Infinity Machine, my boy Hassan and Ron Lawrence, Ron amen Ra who was one of the you know the hit Man Man Man. He's doing all them cool like AI clips now with people talking about hip hop, and he takes.

The photos and make a move a little bit.

They made a documentary a little over ten years ago called Founding Fathers that details, Yeah, it was only on it was on YouTube for a bunch of time. It's about to be on to b and the Founding Fathers really interviews and talks about this era of the game and these DJs.

When we say found fallers, I just want to reiterate that we're talking about the founding fallows of hip hop.

Correct, Well, that's what it implies, but it's really like it doesn't say that in the title, but percent right. But in terms of what led to that boom, what Herk did, once again is genius because he took that structure of the DJs that was mad popular all over the city, and then he brought something new to the table. With the breaks, through playing the breaks, picking up doing that like needle drop type of technique and flashing them will tell you they they got what he was trying

But it was a researcher, but he did. He did research for.

Every turntable until he found out that the Technique twelve hundred was the one that had.

The direct drive.

And then he Yeah, there was a drag before you got to.

So we had Flash on here. Flash was amazing on.

Here, Yeah, Grandmaster, Yeah, crazy legs on here.

Yes, I seen that. And I feel like.

All of them do say they credit her, Yeah, they credit him for what becomes hip hop, but just that a lot of them may not know. Flash will tell you about Pete DJ Jones and the DJs that made you want to be a DJ.

It was a thing.

I think was it herk on here or maybe Flash told the story?

Had not her?

I meant to say, kaz Or Flash told the story about if I'm not mistaken. When he went to battle. As soon as Pete DJ Jones turned his system on, he was like, yo, it's trying to pack up and go because these dudes not just was nice with the records, but they knew how to put the systems together.

It took some it took.

Bread, and you had to have some real tech gets the same thing in these eras, like you had to be able to have access to the equipment or a studio or whatever.

As you noticed, the story goes the black Out of seventy seven when cats got their looting on a lot of Bronx. Cats got access to equipment because let's be real, the Bronx was the poorest borough in the city at that time.

It took some money.

A lot of times you hear stories about casts that have big sound systems and queens or whatever. Their parents spent two, three, four or five K. That's a lot of money there.

That's incredible.

When casts told the story, a lot of casts went to where the where the entertainment electronics stores was and got busy, got mixes, got real.

Stuff for the first time, you know.

And so that I was born in seventy seven, I helped that ship. It was me. It's my magic.

So those are some of the incredible stories about how it really got built, but definitely what herk did was taken in another direction.

Also, the other thing that's.

Interesting about those DJs that I mentioned, the Flowers and the pet DJ Jones, there were there were clubs that came up in Manhattan where promoters would rent out like a restaurant and they would take the chairs out and they would promote that as a party for people coming from the burrows, not in the grill. No, this is way before the brill. This is like Nell Gwinns. I didn't go to these places. I'm still shorty, but I'm well aware of way before all of that.

It's place before club it was. These were legit clubs too.

But this is what once again turned the heat up on this whole.

Idea of DJ.

Your mobile DJs go from playing in the streets to getting high bodies promoters. Their names are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. They're the ones that's really developing this whole disco thing.

Frankie Crocker, this is pre disco. You're saying, this is what?

Then this is what Mexico and Frankie Krocker doesn't get enough credit. I go into him deep in my memoir because when he took over BLS FM. Most black people or most people listen to their.

Music on AM.

When Frankie Kraker takes control of BLS, it's stereo for the first time. In fact, when it was a big thing, when you would hear it at the speak like they would do the station ID, they would go w B L S. It would go from left speaker back to right. People would be like, oh my god, that's next level. And that made people want to go and get stereo systems because most people it wasn't about stereo. And so Frankie Kraker became the dominant DJ. His style was more smooth.

On the radio.

He was Frankie Hollywood cracker. That was his whole thing. He was real smooth, real fly, influential and so with his energy and everything, I'm telling you, that takes it over the top. Then it Then we get Studio fifty four. Then we got high end clubs. Because now it's a thing. I didn't go to study, but that was some ship where they invented. I'm still a short time, I ain't really deep in the mixed yet, but they would pick you. That's where that whole velvet rope things start, and they

People would be crying in man, listen.

It was the biggest thing in the media. To get up in there to get picked. That's where the whole rope thing started. James, when my ship got popping, and the mud Club did the reverse instead of the velvet rope. The mud Club had a little chain outside and when me and Sean Michelle rolled up.

If you're like, oh, Freddy Jean, come right on in.

You know, we had five or six cats with us. So that was our scene, which was a change from the whole Bougie's Studio fifty four, but that was super four.

It was you. But it was like it was like yo, man, you know fab and they downtown, they got they got the white girls they were.

That's all that was then.

You know, opportunity equal opportunity, and you know we would have you know, we wasn't trying to discriminate.

Girl. Then the other white girl, my friend Sundy d over there right. I thought he's a white people whisperer, was like at first, at first I thought it was embarrassing, and then I thought about it. I was like, yo, these white people like soon as he talks, they let their guard down around him, like he's he is a white person whisperer, I don't think relate to other Haitians related. That's crazy. Do you think do you do you think you're white people whisper?

Well, well, you know at that time, that's mostly who was on the downtown scene.

And you know, it was a crowd that was very open.

That's the thing. Everybody in New York. You know, New York was really polarized back in the day. It's like if you you know, casting different neighborhoods, they didn't really intersect segregated in that way. Yeah, it was more or less. It's very segregated. You know, you could roll through different neighborhoods. It was a fight like you know, even when people like me and when we were sure he's going through Brownsville.

Cast was check you, what's up. You have to get busy on some knuckle ship.

You know what I'm saying.

Yiggas don't know about the fifty two blocks for real, you know what I'm saying. You had to know how to handle your ship. And that's New York, you know. And so certain neighborhoods where you had tough you know, cast would get busy. And so that was the That was a dynamic on the downtown scene. It was very open. People was on some artist ship. It was different. It was so we even though me, Jean, a few other

With CBGB popping out us.

CBGB's was popping them up in there. You know what I'm saying, I'm making moves through all of them spot.

And that's one of the first venues that was then.

Yeah, but hip hop was was the first part to performing there.

Okay that I missed.

It wasn't like BC's and then like all the well the.

Beasts, Yeah, they wasn't doing anything. I was around the b c's when they came up, Bacie Boys. You know what I'm saying. They was definitely had that punk rock energy.

They were pu Originally they were a punk rock group.

I thinks, well, they had a punk rock thing.

They had a punk.

Rock attitude, but they was mixing hip hop with it. The first record that I loved blew Up was was called Cookie Puss, which she probably never came out where they recorded this this TV commercial of for Carvel ice cream and they just sampled these ship. It made a wild, crazy, goofy record. It was a lot of fun, but it had a punk sensibility. But they was rapping, and that's a part of Russell's genius, seeing these white guys and thought this could work.

You know.

Rick Ruben stepped in to work with them, and that shit blew up way beyond. But we was all hanging in that same downtown scene at that time because some of the clubs that we frequented as different rap records are beginning to come out sugar Hill other doing things you know, hoo DEENI and whatever. The downtown clubs was

We did a show. Keith Herring had put me on.

He said, Yo, the owner of the club wants you to curate a show which.

Is a flex. Keith Herring is a flex right now.

Yeah, that's my dad. He was a part of the whole team at that time. And he said, the owner, Keith is just starting to come up and we were super tight, and he asked me to curate a show which I did called Beyond Words, and I included a lot of these other graffiti artists I'm talking about Jean Michelle, Futurea, Crash Days, a few other people to show that.

We moving into this scene.

And the dude knew I was connected to this rap thing which is starting to bubble.

He said, Yo, can you put something? Get some of them groups?

So I got like Bam and Cold Crushing Busy. All of them came down to perform at the opening and that was a lot of people's first experience with hip hop culture on that downtown scene show was in.

They was just yo, this is dope.

They felt it beyond expectation, and then more and more people began to mess with it, and so that became a place where we began to do our things, so to speak, and people were open to this new thing coming on. There's a venue for the bill called hip hop. Yeah no, not totally yet.

When do you hear it called hip hop? Like what is okay?

So what happens is oh boy? And I elaborate thoroughly in my memory. There was no name for it officially, and looking at new wave and punk rock, those scenes were named and you could notice styles that are different.

Groups like the.

Sex Pistols, Clash and groups like that. The Dead Boys were punk rock, but then new waves like were like Blondie Talking Heads.

Be fifty two.

But these scenes were clearly defined, and they were being written about and further defined and explained and working on wild Style. As we were coming towards the end and going into post production, and I'm like, Charlie, what are we gonna call it? We had did an event. There were two events that well, it was an event that we did, which was because you know, I used to spit on the mica a little something something and we come together. It was the photos of Henry Schafon and

They would photograph this stuff.

The rock Steady Crew, a DJ from my block in Brooklyn, DJ Spy I got on the mic, and another cat that I brought.

Into the scene named ramel Z.

And this event we were gonna we were calling it graffiti rock. But Charlie and I were like, well that was the term we had used.

We're like, what are we gonna call it?

So every other rapper at the time, many rappers would in between rapping, they would and I used to consider it an opportunity to catch your breath and think of your next rhyme. They would go to the hip the hop hippie dibby divvy, you know you don't stop. That was a part of the like a break in between your rhymes, you throw your hands in the air, different things that a lot of the Foundation rappers would do.

And so that's essentially.

How that began to help push to help nudge that into place, because to promote the film the first real descriptions, nobody was writing about this as a culture and in the promotional wild style, this is the beginning of it being seen as this broad picture as you know, together together the culture, the elements four or five whatever, people were determine and this is what it's called because it

The first time it was used in print.

And this cat Michael Hoeman, who once again.

He did a TV show early.

But the but the but the but the goofy cornball suits that he had to deal with didn't allow it to go syndicate it and it was called Graffiti Rock. You've probably seen clips of it online where you see like coom o d and running them perform. It was and he's the host on it. He had the Gazel's on, you know. He he was somebody that I put on and he dived right in. He would manage the New York City Breakers, they were like the rivals to the

Let him know.

Listen, we're gonna call it all this.

We're beginning to promote the movie, this whole special section in the East Village. I was like several articles the first time this had ever happened about different aspects of the culture. Futura and Lee had art that was included in that issue. And Michael Holman does an interview with Bam Bada and uses that term for the first time in print.

Vam Boda says it because that's what I know.

Well, Michael is talking.

Michael brings us truck in fact, to make it legit, to make me feel like I was on the right track.

I called Bam.

I said, Bam, I'm thinking that to promote the movie. We're thinking of using and Bam said, yes, I totally agree. So he agreed because we were like, look, we want to call it something on No Flyer that you see and the flyers and collections everywhere, No Flyer called it. It was no name. They were just promote who was rapping, who the DJ was? You know, those classic flyers by Phase two and Buddy Esquire and so many others.

So we were like, what are we going to do and so that's how we help.

So we're kind of saying that you can't up with the term hip hop.

Oh no, no, no, I didn't come up with it.

It was being used rappers.

Was Cas told us. I forget who he said was saying it because.

Yeah, okay, the first yeah, I tell that story grade. And there's another component where Flash says a girl he was dating back then her it was her brother going into the army. Flash says that she heard, but Flashes just as a little to it.

This girl.

It was this girl's brother and she.

Was at the party and she started it first. Then Cowboy from the Furious get on and they both are just teasing him pop, you know, like the way they would do the marching drill sergeant type of thing, and

So like already there you just it's what I'm.

Saying that I just said, let's let's use that because.

It seems like everybody's like when people would talk about yo, I was at this jam, and I remember people would say, what kind of music? Because you still had DJs that just played music, and they'd be, no, it wasn't just like music.

It was one of them hibbitty hop joints.

And you would know okay because they would be Typically you would hear it at any party where people was people was rapping it. Often you would somebody would do that oftentimes. So it became like a synonymous way to describe the kind of party it was makes sense, which was different than people that was just trying to be a disco type DJ, which was cool, but everybody wasn't with that or had somebody that would get on the

So Ballpark figured real quick, how many white girls you take? You fuck out? Mash Man like like like, I mean, I mean, you know downtown, this is downtown. I mean.

I don't, I don't kiss and tell.

The culture this you see the culture man, like, well.

Listen, speaking of I'm sorry but speaking to Sean Michelle. Please you may not know he dated Madonna, right correct?

Yeah for a hot minute, that's that's hard date Jehan Haitian Puerto Rican?

What Yes, John Haitian Puerto Rican. He's Hatian Puerto Rican, Haitian for his father's Haitian.

Get out. I didn't know that.

Yeah, I got so John spoke. He could speak a little Spanish.

Oh he's knocking anything, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like Madonna, man, I know we've touched on her a little Biteah yeah. Madonna is like I don't want to say the person that's invited to the cook out. I think she's actually bringing ingredients to the cook She's like bringing she's actually bringing her own version of three potato. That's a great description.

That's a great discription.

She's invited, she's in the kitchen prepare now.

Like Madonna has several kids, and a couple of her kids which she's raised for quite a while.

They're African.

Yeah yeah, yeah, me and you. Yeah yeah, I'm trying to the same nigga. Okay, Big Daddy came to Madonna. He had the Leopards said was crazy.

That was the sex Book. Yeah, oh my god, that was wow. I remember when that came out.

Flowers Flowers, man, listen our show. It's about giving people flowers where they can smell them. Oh man, we've been waiting so they can tell them and we want to give yours better than the Grammy because it comes from this people and we your people, and we want to you know, let me just tell you something, man.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

No, listen, if something man, just we've been we've been waiting to give it. We've been waiting for ten years, you know, and congratulations on ten years. But but let me just tell you something, man, like you made media fly man. You know what I mean a lot of people, you know, when you you look at people in the in the hood, they wanted to be the artist. They wanted to be the basketball player, they wanted to be the you know, even hockey player, football player, whatever whatever. Correct.

We're all we're all.

Following your footsteps. You know what I'm saying and what you're doing. An excellent job, you j that's right. Yeah, he pronounces your name correct. I'm like I thought, I'm like, my bad did you ever think because honestly right, Uh, it was Ralph McDaniels. Yes, you better believe it.

Video music box baby, Yes, I was locked in.

And this is this is this is my friend, you know. And he always tells us, tells us sometimes he said, you know, New York, you guys were cocky, right, and I kind of don't realize it it's me yeah him.

Yet Oh, because I'm coming from the perspective of.

What you're well researched, you know a lot of his So let me break it down.

So what I didn't realize is when we had a show like Ralph McDaniels, which is Video Music Box. It was on Channel nine or te.

Was on in New York cable Saturdays. I believe, okay, yes, which is what I didn't know. And you you said it to me, He said to me, very very mean what you did say to me. And you were like, yo, you know we saw Video Music Box, but we had.

To see it on VHS. Wow, you know what, how spoil we were as New Yorkers right point, and so I'm just talking about it. I'm like, damn, you know it only came on in a certain channel, you with a certain cable right on a certain cable station. And then we had the rest of the world that was VHS, which he just acted the sign. So these tapes were circulating, right, And I said, New York, We're so spoiled. We don't even know how special this is. Because this is on

Time my cousin cousins, So y'all can talk about.

It, so we can talk about it in real time.

Wow.

Wow, that was like the first So this is a degression one. Do you know how many lives you fucking jamed? Wow?

You know it's a humbling.

Feeling and when you realize it, and I just want to say, I mean, look, MTV at the time when it hit the incredible stretch, it wasn't a long stretch, but it was a pivotal stretch. It was in pivotal stretch for incredible artists, Emmerson, your first time seeing artists that defined a whole host of spaces. You saw them first, and I'm super honored that they stood next to me, and I kind of was the first time.

You saw X, Y and Z and you think they reached out to you to hold the show because of wild style.

That was a part of it.

So there was a cat that I knew initially named Peter Dougherty who was on the downtown scene.

He knew the moves I was making.

He was at the mud Club show I told you about.

He was a.

Underground music, a fictionado, and he got a job to be a producer at MTV early on, so he would get tickets to a rock concert. I mean he took me to see like Judas Priests and he actually got me to see the Jackson five and it was on to it. So his name was Peter Doerty, and Peter knew what was going on. He was close enough to know this shit is bubbling. There was a few records had come out by this point that have gone goal, some run DMC shit and some Houdini and you know things.

Curtis flow exactly.

Things beginning the bubble, and he was in their ear to do a show.

He used to mention it to me.

I used to always be like, get out of here, man, Boom boom boom.

Then he linked up with another kid at MTV.

His name is Ted Demied. Yes, indeed, me and Ted became like super tight. He was the nephew of the Oscar Award winning director Jonathan Demi, who I became tight with later. Ted was a white kid from Long Island, grew up loving hip hop, really got it down. Pat Peter had seen the development. He was tapped in. They lobbied in, campaigned to get it hopping, and Peter was like, he's the guy that should host it. I was like, what, He's the guy that's in the raption video. There's this film Wild Style.

He's in.

He's connected, he's downtown. And so Peter was like kept telling me it was Peter's idea and got with Ted Demi. They were producers on the channel they wanted to do a show. Also, I must give props to a French chick, a black French woman named Sophie Bromley that had been in New York early on, hanging in the mix taking pictures of the very early stuff going to the fever,

She and she got.

Friendly with mad people, so she knew so many people. Her vibe was just incredible. So they did that for about a year. Meanwhile, Peter is like, this is where it's born. This needs to happen here, and they were lobbying other executives. We should we gotta do this. Look like we're in boom boom boom. MTV was mirroring the way quote unquote pop radio was, which pretty much was all white.

That was the rape radio was.

Radio was very segregated in most places. So MTV was just mirroring what radio was. That was what they were basically doing. But these producers pushed and Peter was like, pitching me to be the host. And then he said, man, like we actually did a screen test, he said, if you if he knew I'm creative and I'm getting busy, he said, man, how would you want to do this?

That was this little screen test.

Next thing, I know, within a couple of weeks we were shooting the first episode and they bugged out and thought that the Nielsen ratings must have bugged out because it was the highest rated show that had the channel that had ever been on the channel. We've been saying, Wold, that shit took off like a rocket being you know, I was. At first it was a half hour, and then we went to an hour, and then they asked me, after about a year, did I want to host a

You know? Play my shit?

You know?

I mean, man, I don't want to be overexposed, you know what I'm saying. So they asked me if I wanted to do the Weekend. I said, nah, that's cool, and so Ted knew at Lover and Peter knew Doctor Dre because Doctor Dre.

Was a producer. He produced just he produced a.

Couple of records on Deaf Jam Real early on. I came remember the name of it now, but it was that had some eight o way base was crazy, and they put them together as the week as a week crew, like kind of like in a clubhouse like Aving Costello the week say, a weekend weekly, And I did there

Like the first time Yo m TV raps travel.

It was to Miami to cover Luke Skywalker and the two Live crew.

Talk about that.

It's crazy, you know, this is the before South Beach got sexy. It was like a re It was like a retirement community as you if you remember old the folks sitting out in uh walking chairs and uh. But we went to Liberty City and I got to hang with Luke and he broke down what they were doing. I understood then, oh, this is just a lot of fun because I'm into lyrics, you know, I want bars and ship like that was once I saw how to get down spinning.

It was just spending that ship.

But I felt like it was it was there was.

Yeah, so that's one hundred percent what they were doing.

But I realized, like, this is a whole different thing, and it was fascinating to be able to showcase it and then to go to other cities. That was the biggest most exciting thing to me, to go to Houston interview the Ghetto Boys when Mine playing Tricks was the hottest record, you know, to catch be in San Francisco with Digital Underground, when you know the Humpty Hump and all that.

Just just broke out.

It was just the hangar on he Yeah, when I first interviewed he had they hadn't even put him in the mix yet, But then soon later he would be in the mix, and then I would interview him. The first interview I did with Tupac was when they were filming above the they were filming, Oh God, above them, No, not above the rim juice. I'm sorry, Bang, And we did something special because I'm in juice, I make a

So it was real special and that was a catalyst to spread hip hop everywhere.

Oh, this is the thing I've been meaning to say. The VHS tape thing is so special to me. People later, Your MTV Raps was one of the only shows MTV produced because MTV was franchised out in about six or seven other countries. It was MTV Europe, Brazil, Asia here there our show was the only show that was in all those other markets, but particularly in Europe. Like the first time I went to Africa, I went to Nigeria and I met some young Nigerians from affluent families, and they all recognized them.

I'm like, what the hell is going on? How do you guys get it?

Oh, we have the satellite thish, this is a this is twelve. Yes, we have a dish, which made me know like their people had paper, but they were able to pick up the European feed and they would make they were recording on VHS and sharing it with their friends like mixtapes, just like mixtapes. So sometimes I'll meet somebody brother be just so moved to tell me they had a relative or somebody would send them tapes of your TV raps and that's how they got tapped into the culture.

That's mind blowing, fucking mind blowing.

So that was like you said, going viral back then, but that the VHS tape and the cassette tape.

Were critical to the culture.

Should I remember speaking to Luke even uh, Well, this was pre DVD. Luke was putting out them videos and on wild parties.

And then the Peep Show.

Yes it'd be we'd be like, oh my god, Luke was x rated, but he was a brilliant businessman.

We got to talk about when you went to Compton.

Well once he again.

So we had interviewed Easy on the show a few times when we won Easy and.

Uh, they were great. Videos came out before it was Easy first.

First people don't know that.

They had been in the lab working on stuff, but I think the story goes it might have been draining them. That was like, yo, Easy, you should rap because Easy was bankrolling what they were doing. He's getting money on the street and it.

Was his label. Ruthless was his label.

Yeah exactly.

So he was working on putting that together and so they got Easy to actually came on first and it worked right, So we it was one of the early videos that we had.

I remember when your.

TV rap takes off.

So after you know, a few a month or so period of time, a couple of months, we'd go out to La you know, Ted was like listen, Easy's got this new group. We're gonna go out there and do a show.

With him in La. When you say Ted, Ted.

Demi was talking about Ted Demi. So I'm like, okay.

Ethan was incredible with videos, were great, well produced. A good friend of mine named Kevin Swaying was the was the director of Brother from Cali who's produced.

A million things, but.

Back then he was cutting his tea for music videos as I was. And so we go out there to do this show with them. So we're in a new town. Now We're like okay. Because Ted we were in sync, we got to do something interesting because we were conscious of wanting to show the rest of the country this new group, this new area where I had been out in LA but mostly wes Hollywood, because I had had a big exhibit a couple of years prior at a

Then I got my chance.

But now we're dealing with some with some hood ship which I had I knew nothing about. So the night before we go out to do the empty d NWA interview, Ted calls me in my room. He says, listen, everything is set up. What we're gonna do is we're gonna rent a truck, a flatbed truck.

Oh it was a flat bed. I thought it was a pick of It was a flat bed.

Yeah, it's like a big flat bed, a big truck. It had like, you know, rails around ship we could like it's like a hay ride type of without any Hey, we're gonna drive around. We're gonna meet with Easy. We're gonna meet here in Compton. We're gonna learn a little bit about Compton. Then we're gonna go to the swap meet where they get their little street gear in whatever, and then we're gonna ride out to Venice Beach. So I'm like, wow, we're gonna show people different spots in LA.

You know, it's the whole thing.

And a bunch of other cats, including the doc and the funny story I like to tell is I'm standing there and some cats roll up in a sixty four whatever once again. Oh and the night before Ted said, oh yeah, don't wear nothing black, don't wear nothing red, or don't wear that black.

We knew nothing.

About that, so we were in black.

I didn't understand all this gang culture at that particular point in time, so whoy And when we get out there, n w A isn't all black. So I'm like, okay, yeah this is you know, we're all good. And I'm standing there and a car rolls up. It's like some casts in the sixty four, like Impalla and and and they kind of recognized me. So they're looking at me and I go like, hey, what's up? And Cube comes

That's a gang sign.

I was like, oh, he says, so we we have you have to do it this way.

I was like, okay, which way you did it? You did it.

This is like open hand cast, so you gotta.

Do it this way, he said.

He said this was because that was some some some some you know nothing, but the first hit time hearing any of this and not understanding how ill it is or what that culture is really all about. And that was the introduction, which then turns out to be a lot of people's favorite show because they get introduced to this group.

We drive around.

I always remember something that stuck with me because in between segments, Cube kept asking me, you're fab.

I hadn't even.

Listened to the record yet, by the way, to keep in mind, what's what's up with g rap?

He's cool? G rap cool?

And then he asked me again, you're fab, tell me something about it. And that's when you discovered that He's.

When I later listened to the album. Mom was blown where they was going. It was like they was also inspired to go as hard as Public Enemy was going musically, which they was doing, but they was talking about this is where we're from, this is what's going on here.

It blew my mind. Cube going to what is the Public Enemies producers?

Yeah, you gets to New York. I'm the first person he called. I'm like, because we're tight. Now we got everybody numbers cool and not only that. Oh man, this is another good story. I had did an interview. Andy Walhol had had a magazine. It's called Interview Magazine.

Wild. Okay, it's this.

Story where and yeah, any Weell had a magazine, so I'm you know, I know Andy now and they would interview interesting people doing interesting stuff. It was a cool format, like a big news print. The photos were big, beautiful. It was like nothing was like it. And I was like, yo, let me reach out to them. I wanted to interview this new group because I had did a couple of interviews I did, and I did an I interviewed ll for interview.

I did a few people.

The first one I did was for Spike Lee for She's when She's got to have it came I'm in that for a second.

Anyway.

I interviewed n w A all of the group's.

Members on the phone, and then we set up this photo shoot, which is happened in a few days later, and I talked to the photographer who's based out there, and I'm like, make sure you you know, these are the members of the group, you know, make sure this. So I set it all up and I talked to the photographer a little later. I go, so, how did it go? He said, he said, oh, fab, it went great. I go, so, so who was there again? And he runs down all the members of the group. I said,

Like a consumer, we didn't know until we saw America's Most Wanted Like that's how I found out.

I was like, what is this?

So when he comes to New York, I'll know if you get called me and I'm I'm.

Like, what's up.

He's like, man, I can't work with.

The squad man. That's the only one I can get busy with. I'm like, whoa.

And then the rest is history.

No vascinate all that ship South Hell and I'm like, wow, oh, you know what was incredible about that moment that I really loved Cube was the one that prominatly like water Jerry curl In beginning which was a big l a style. Black folks had the Jerry juice to Jerry Curl going on.

When Cube did.

His first performance at the Apollo, he.

Shaved his head off.

He came out with with with the bald and hallm went crazy. I'll never forget like how that hit so hard because everybody was used to seeing them like that and that was that ship. Like when that baldy hit, you know, that was a look right then, like that was that was official and uh and that was the beginning of him becoming like, you know, taking it to another.

Level, crazy Jack. I'm gonna do our drinking game. Okay, drinking, so but he's your designated drinker.

Sip if you want, you got wine. We got whatever you want, got go ahead, we got vodka. He said, he's the baka. See I told you man.

You said it as you said it, all right, So here are the rules of the game. We're gonna give you two choices. You pick one the choices. We don't drink. Nobody drinks.

But if you give the politically correct answer, which is either both you say I just this both or neither of them. Okay, we all love for both. Yeah, yeah, you say I love both of them, or I don't like both of them. We all drink.

But this is really, this is not to just anybody's really for stories, anything that any of these choices bring up a story for you.

Please give us the story. You know what I'm saying.

Okay, okay, okay, the bathroom?

Thank you? What'd you send it? As? Holy a million? No, I don't got it.

You got it the picture?

Yeah, that's it. Click above it. No, I don't see it. I see it you ready, Yeah, Dick, I don't see it. Let me get it. It's right to here, bros. Right, No, I don't see it. Oh, I see it now, my bad, bad, bad, ahead, I got it ready, don't forget that.

I want to get on to talk about this.

Absolutely. I haven't gotten that at all. Okay, yeah, absolutely, Biggie or big l WHOA your criteria.

And it's your criteria and any stories with anybody as well.

Because you knew you bet them both, big al I met briefly stripped club in the Bronx.

Back then, Golden Lady, go, that's what you made Golden Lady. Okay, I feel my mom.

Was there, yes, but I did a yo.

MTV raps with the whole digging in the crates crew Show Business AG and them and the other brother that passed away with the with the with the on the turntables. One of the executioners, rock Raider, was there, and also.

There was I'm glad you got scared for him too.

I was big l but at that point I didn't.

Know who he was.

He was literally just getting on large. Professor was there. So the whole scene opens, everybody's digging in the crates because that was their thing.

So we was like, yo, y'all, what up here? You know, how do my thing?

We helped up here Show Business AG's laugh and homies digging in the crate recently, Yeah, one of my and so Big I'm like after later, I'm like, oh.

My god, that's big out.

So I love him, but I'm a little obviously Biggie got to produce a bit more, you know, I got to connect with Biggie. Put some blunts in the air. He was a he was a blunt chainsmoker. Yeah, well yeah, our gin. Of course we didn't engage at that point, but when we later met and connected, just the vibers, right, and then I do the whole interview with him, at the Bad Boy Officers, him and crag Mac. You know, that's his national television introduction.

You know, wasn't that the time y'all introduced the Big Mac's that it.

No, we into the Big Mac, but we're both in the office and but you know, but I asked Biggie a question because it was similar with referenced one of his rhymes. I was like, he said, sometimes the rap game, you know, was comparable to the crack game.

And being that he had he was like.

Yeah, you know, his answer was if I was flipping burgers. You know, if I was telling Burgers, then I would have been rapping about that. But one of the answers to that, that was a great moment with them, with them to Spittters Hot Spitters.

Tupaca easy rest piece of both man.

You met them both? Yeah, neither oh man, no question, that's so wow. Wow, I go it easy, Yeah, just because we look. I mean, I love them both.

But had that.

Connection and introduced the whole scene if I got But I.

Loved the episode. We did your TV raps.

You had it on earlier when I walked in and Tupac. That was the first time it was recorded because I knew, and it hadn't come out then, he hadn't become this, you know, the megastar in terms of you know.

The movies and whatever.

But I knew he had a Black Panther connection and found out and it's the first time he stated it. And Harlem, yeah, no, we were in LA because oh yeah, yeah, yeah, No. The Panther twenty one all happened.

In New York when his mom was involved and.

He was conceived. It's a crazy story.

His mom was in and his the brother that was his father, they were both a part of the Black Panther twenty one and they were on trial.

They were under heavy pressure.

They had a moment together in the holding cell or whatever when the people that know that they break it all down because they was caught up in.

The system for a while. That's how he was conceived.

It's crazy. Yeah, So he came out of there.

So when I asked him about that in that episode, and he says, he breaks that down, like I come from some you know, from some revolutionary stuff, like my mother was a panther, my father and they met he was a hustle on hundred thirty Fish Street and they got together, you know, where they was down trying to make revolution for real.

Crazy, So that was a good moment. Smith and Western or m O P. M O P.

I love Smith and Wesson too, but you know, being a Brooklyn cat the way m O P represents like they.

Defined brown from Brooklyn one my time, Smith Wester is from Brooklyn.

Oh yeah yeah, no, no doubt.

I should be more specific and say Brownsville, very specific energy the way they articulated just the one. I feel like, what you know, like the best of Browns veil on some on some street, wild ship.

They all my brothers too. Yeah, shut out all care rest one Ques or rock camp. Man, this is torture. I mean, come on, I mean, you know you drink if you if you don't want to pick, you know he drinks. Oh man, I'm sorry, yeah, thank you? Yeah yeah, yes, I don't want to know you don't want to pick? I think I think I mean you didn't have to remind him like that. Now we're gonna drink. No, thank you.

I totally forgot the rules.

I'm like, man, I want to have been said that, like, yeah, thank you, man, I would have been you know, I'm spazy.

You don't want to do you want to shot one little piece on somewhere. You're dignating the whole hair. I love it, y'all be having all right?

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, come have a shot A shop for bad man.

All right, so much? You know I got take your shot? Yeah, took me. Thanks for reminding me of the rules of the game. All right.

For Duke Ellanton or John Coltrane or John Coltrane, I can't you gotta take a shot.

I take a shot. Cool cook, that's the killer. He likes the killer. Yeah, go ahead to drink it out, coolie rapper, slick rick Man to drink up. Oh damn.

Damn, come on man, y'all y'all, have.

You got any good stories with any of them? Once again?

Well shit, yes, I mean I directed.

Oh this is great.

I love to tell people because at this point when I'm directing the director board. Yeah, so I directed about sixty or soul music videos. The first one my philosophy. Hype did his thing. He had a whole incredible style.

So love Hype. Love to see that.

That was incredible, very exciting period of just a lot of people learning how to use film. And once again, wild style was my introduction and I had these ideas. It was a period where I was frustrated with just making paintings, having shows one solo show a year, a couple of group shows. I had this experience making wild Style and I wanted to do something with film again, and that's why I wanted to direct the videos. I'm you know, I was trying to do a public enemy video.

Job Records.

The woman that.

Ran the head of the whole, An r Anne Carley, had heard and hired me to do my philosophy video for a charras one.

Oh he's the first video.

Yes, and then I go on to direct the whole bunch of videos in that period, and I directed Rode to the Riches for Coolchie Rap Crazyright. And what I'm most proud of in terms of where we were in that time, the crack game was really going on, and the song is about the rise and fall of a crack dealer.

This is like ninety two ish if.

You will time frame wise, and you know I'm from these streets, so I know that story band. So I put that together and if you remember the video. What I was also proud is I'm the first video to put an image of Scarface that became a super iconic thing. And I'm a film nerd as well as the art nerd, like I noticed it and I was like, I went to see Scarface the first day to film over.

I'm a Brian D. Palmer fan.

Who's the director And actually it was Oliver Stone that wrote the screenplay. So I was like, unbelievable film. And then to see it become such a big thing and the culture was fantastic. So bang I direct that video once again, which is the story of the rise and fall of a crack dealer like the shop of that to.

The Richards, cool gi rap.

And another little piece of that story is there's a brother named George Jackson Rest in peace that was in jail. He got no no, no, not the black not the black panther. Okay, okay, that's okay, no no no. I love that because you know, it's funny. I used to think of that early on, but then as you got to know.

George, he looked at who he was.

George was a brother from Harlem that went to Harvard on a football scholarship and worked his way into into Hollywood. And I think he worked on he might have had something to do with Crushcrew. He was hanging around doing things with Richard Pryor, and then he came he being there.

He was from Harlem.

He had this idea to make a gangster film and the film George came to me to assist with. There's a film called New Jack City. I'm an associal producer on that film.

Thank you, Thank you.

The story was actually based on the Nicky Bonds story heroin Whatever, but that's set in the nineteen seventies. George didn't want to set the film in the seventies. He wanted to set it which was current day. Current day, which was the early nineties when Nwjack swing is bubbling and about to explode. So he wanted to do a

The Road to the Richards video.

When George watches the video, He's like, oh my god, this is the idea in the movie which I see and is the cop you know, infiltrating Nino Brown's organization. When George had this, put this in front of me and he had gotten his brother Sadly, he passed not long ago Barry Michael Cooper, who was from Harlem, but he was nice with the words. His word game was crazy. And Barry had written a couple of articles and being he was from Harlem, like writers that was connected to

But he was from these streets too.

When he saw a couple of articles Barry had written, and that in fact, one of the very first articles on the crack epidemic, about to happen. Think it might have been a spin magazine. George was like, this brother can write this script. And George got burried to write

So that's crazy, makes some.

Change exactly exactly.

I love it. Christopher moment.

Yeah, yeah, that was.

Listen.

I remember when we were shooting that scene New Jack City where Wesley stabs Christopher Wims and I never liked you anyway, pretty motherfucker that ship. Every time we shot, there's moments when you're on a set, if you got actors at.

That level, when they do that, the whole crew is like.

No, everybody is everybody has stopped doing what they do in the watch, like yo, he's doing his thing. And when he did that ship, it was so crazy. I was like what, I never like you went like just to stab a nigga, like in the hand like that, like you like your crew was ship.

You know.

That was the dynamic. Let me tell you another listen, let me tell you another interesting dynamic about that. And this was my role on that film, being that I know what time it was and George wanted to the archetypes were people in the game and the thing the model for Nino Brown in our heads and this me that no, you know, it's what I'm in brought on to do.

Was Big Daddy came.

It was that was the model in terms of the art type.

We can see that.

I see.

It was a character in the way his the way he would do his wrap thing and uh, some of his early videos boom, so we you know, I see was definitely you know, so I'm bringing all these names to the table.

But we had.

Audition Kane, he was incredible, but we had heard.

About this brother that was it was.

I think it was, Oh my god, was it not No Better? What was the movie? Wesley debuts and it might have been White Up. No, i'mna be mad at myself, That's what I'm thinking.

Was it Mo Better?

Wesley's first film?

I think he was about to start shooting all the time.

Bobcats Wildcats.

No what I'm talking about.

No, not that this was specifically a Spike Lee film.

I think it was Younger Fever.

And George had had, you know, had gotten like a line on this guy. He said, Yo, there's this actor, young actor, Wesley Snipes. He's about to be and he's just shot this next this new Spike lead film I believe was Jungle Fever. He said, I think this could be our Nino Brown. And we went to the after party for Spike's film and I meet him for the first time. He had been in another film about baseball. He was playing a baseball player, but it didn't really

The soundtrack together.

We is, yeah, oh my god, telling myselfday Tuesday, Yeah, tell Teddy.

Tell Teddy.

I talked about this.

He gonna light up because I'm in the studio like I'm hovering over like boom boom boom, and we we go.

We pulled Wesley to the side, and you know.

He's auditioning everything like he's incredible, Like you know, he's he can do it, like he can cry and the scene that we need, he can do that whole shit, Like he's a whole acting package. So we said Wesley, like, yo, man, like I'm telling him. I said, man, you, I said, this film is really going to make you a star. He said, no, fab that's not gonna happen. Man, I said,

To happen, because we felt the tempo this was coming now and the.

Gangster but still like attractive with a dangerous sexy. We had the whole shit mapped out like what we needed this character like to be, you know what I'm saying, and shit worked and Wesley blew up. It was just beautiful to see it all explode bigger, even bigger than I think. You know, I didn't know people was we see it was, you know, bullets was going.

It was that weekend.

It was quite a sensation. That was a long story. That was great.

Thank you, Jim.

That reallyed to me being a producer on New Jack City.

Miles Davis or lowis armstrong man. Y'all got a drink, man, I'll drink.

So yes, Miles I met because of him and Max Roach were tight and Max was a big fan of all the hip hop stuff as it was just beginning to emerge, and so uh he was really into it and as was Miles. Like I like to say, Max, Max Max Roach, who was the drummer that was my godfather. If I didn't if we didn't talk about him earlier, and he was tight with Miles and Miles and they would talk about different things going on. Miles was you know, he switched from the classic jazz and went into the jazz rock.

And they were very they're very they a very open minded.

And so is it true that Louis Armstrong asked for a week card.

Yeah, that's in my film, Yeah, in my in the documentary I made about the Week Yeah, this is legit. Yeah, the documentary I made for this ship.

Yeah.

Yeah, so it's yeah, now it's legal. But Louis, it was such great logic in that moment in the.

Sixties he asked for that.

It was known among many people.

He said that you could get a gun license.

That's in that film.

That's exactly what he said. Yes, makes so much, doesn't thank you?

Telling his manager his manager was yeah, his manager's Yes. His manager was a real deal gangster that they were super tight and he was able to the gangsters controlled a lot of the music industry and what have you.

And Louis manager was he was.

The real deal.

He sold a letter they didn't write the letter, but he wrote what Louis Armstrong would do. He would record how he felt. There's hours of him just expressing himself.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was heavy duty.

Pressure that they targeted people in the music game, and they knew Louis and other people that got pressured the most for this plant that never killed anybody.

And Louis was you know, it was real. He was well renowned and we believe and.

The research I did with other like cannabis experts, when because he sometimes referred to it as a golden lead, I've been looking for his connection. Really knew how to cultivate cannabis for the flower. When we was coming up, most people just smoked everything. Damn there, you didn't know like, you know, it's when the weed got got that sticky stuff on it. That's the flower giving you like the real state of the art in in cannabis, you know,

So his weed was consistently great. Louis had Branson back then. I loved that part of your documentary. Yeah, Branson and BIG's on film, and that's probably two of the last filmed people in the listen. Branson is my boy.

It was really hard work to get Branson and the day we were initially were shooting him, he stood up my whole crew and I'm like, I got made people my DP Malik Sai. These are feature level cinematographers, you know, brother in the gang.

That's what I mean.

He was just he was Hype, Hype Williams name cinematographer coming up. They designed that that look of what Hype was doing. But uh yeah, that was heavy. That was heavy pressure. Said let me, let me, let me just say something that we're here.

I tell the famous story of one time I was drunk on one hundred and twenty fourth Street. This is the first, Uh, I believe it's Fruits of Life. And we were we were drinking. We were drinking, I mean Harlem. Obviously I live in Jersey, but I was I was, I was drunk, but I was sober enough to know if I get if I make it to Branson Block, yeah, I'm safe. Uh No, I tell the story. And Branson recently that co signing story, right, I went, he's been on a part, right he did.

He did.

Let me break it down because there's a part of this story that's super missing. Wow. No, it's with me. And I'm telling Jada Kiss this. Jada Kiss knows exactly what it is. Okay, I'm sitting there in Harlem. I drink tager Bone. This is tager bone fancy.

We had that tagle Bonejack.

So I'm one hundred and twenty four form Foods of Life. I live in Jersey. I'm on my way ahead of Jersey, and I'm like, I can't make this. There's no way. I don't even want to, like risk my life, Like

That's the Japanese can.

They had the Japanese candy that. Seriously, you will go back there. You go use the bathroom, Biggie Smalls will be coming out the bathroom, I kid you not. For us, Branson created an experience. It wasn't about going to buy. But I come from means I'm literally almost an hour and a half with traffic, and it's always traffic in New York City. I would come from Queen's ninety seven DA thirty fifty seventh Avenue and go all the way

I was like, Yo, where did you go?

Because I was drinking with Jada Kiss. That's the reason why he was there with me. But I went and I parked the car and I just looked at the first person that I know I saw in Branson, and I was like, yo, I can't drive. I gave the kid my key. Is that the kid that had to have the dreads? No, No, you talking about Eddie, you talk about Okay? You know that that that was that was that was that was his people inside. This was the people from the block. How much? What's how much?

Back in the day.

And I went and I went home, and I woke up and I had no worries in the world. I promise you. I went right back to the same block and everything was good. Kid was sitting there, waven be like, yo, you're good, Like, yeah, that was the right thing you did. You couldn't have made it to whatever the fuck you? And what I'm trying to say to you is Branson. When Branson answered this story, yeah, he answered it as if it was the respect for me. I have to I have to take that away. This is a modest cat.

The I made how to weave back.

You used to look. Yeah, but let me just describe you because you also in your documentary you said sixty over sixty rappers shout it out brands.

Yes, right, he had to tell you put together.

So let me tell you why, Gush. You come from Queens, you come from Staten Island, you come from Jersey, you come from anywhere in the world. And then with those three blocks, because he did not only have that one block, he had all these other blocks. I would buy my butt, bring some champagne, and I would sit there a Queens dude. Wow, I get my car washed out there. That's that old school hall. Let me tell you something, there has never

It's just so beautiful to hear you articulated like that.

That's something I got to get. Listen. I love it.

And when I moved up to Harlem in the early two thousands, I got really tight with Eddie and he would tell me how they got down and the way Branson numerous times they would he would have cookouts and he would buy food, the real classic Harlem stuff that went down that you hear about.

You know Branson did that.

He cut He's cut from that cloth of those cats from that seventies era. He didn't go that direction, obviously, but he treated people like that. He was super tight with another Harlem legend. Rest in peace, my man Vaughn. Zip Zip had one hundred and eighteenth Street the same way they took care a whole bit.

Zips club zip cod.

Yes, zip Code came later.

Yes, indeed, he got an incredible fly club in Harlem. He managed Mike Tyson for a minute, along with my dear friend Jimmy Rosemand you know aka Jimmy Ah.

Yeah, you know that's my man.

But So Branson had that classic Harlem get down that really unfortunately, you know, nothing lasts forever. But that's a big I think a big part of the reason why he had Why the block shows you just was the way that went down is just unbelievable.

But just think about it. If I'm telling you, listen, listen, I'm smacking.

Drunk out of it.

But I still I knew enough to say, I know where's safe. Act I'm already in Harlem one hundred and twenty four and I believe correct me if I'm wrong. I believe Branston was one hundred and fifty.

Yeah, it was Satan one Fitch spot is right down the block, right.

That's how I get the Branson fish sandwich.

And then I go, yes, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, what's that famous fish.

It's famous fifth yes, and Saint Nick.

It's the best fish in the world.

Get the fries.

That's the only thing. Yeah, Miami, I need to understand where fish like that?

Yes, I need that's the Southern thing.

So it's mostly fried pogis and whities, this is what's typical.

In New York.

And then some fries, you know what I mean, a few other.

Size but it's mainly like fried whitings and fried pogies. Yes, yes, it's typical what you're getting most fishing. They might have a red snapper here and there.

What is it what I got? I have one spot that I love here. It's in the hood snap snappers. That's what I think, my New York niggas. Listen, lit, I got New York fish out here, and like we're now, I me just like it.

I'm sorry for jumping like it was just an anxiety moment. So so Branson, because he's exactly how you described classic hustling. I'm not trying to be telling everything. I'm not trying to that's so much a weird part of the culture now casts is ready to tell everything. Branson is cut from that classic cloth of you don't talk nobody talking,

People in one second, because let me just say something. When you say jaw jar is different, because something you broke down in your documentary is his twenties was in triangle, correct, and his fifties was in brown bags.

Okay, but no he I think he might have had two sizes of triangles because I remember sometimes it's like a twenties no, no.

Because sometimes I had tosstic and sometimes he had the green. Somebody he said he had the brown. Okay, I love you. I might have been likened to bring twenty t isssue there, like because I'm going to take a ship and it's going down that serious. I'm dead serious. Yeah, I loved it so much. That's so they had to hit a tosstick in the twenties. Then he had any the green in the twenties as well, but then the brown bags of the fifties, and then if you had a jaw that was like was one fifty or more?

Yeah, if it's about it was. That was a jaw a quarter or like a half ounce.

It was. I ain't gonna lie to you. I don't know.

It was between the two and one of them.

Yeah, that was when you was a baller, like exactly.

That's what they called the rapper, which is the way you would hear it referenced you.

You had some paper and you knew you he was.

He had the most consistent, high quality cannabis that you can get.

It was really like a dispensary.

I'm gonna get. I'll never tell this story. I gotta tell the story. Capone gets locked up poems like Juli Kbone was like, yo, you know, I need some bud you know what I mean? Like them, But he's like, nah, I want that. I want that band. Was like I I go up down about everything that I need. Then I buy everything. Component I don't know. I don't know to wrap ship up for jail niggas. What the fuck? Okay, okay, okay,

He didn't know where it was actually going to go.

I'm sure to that is that my problem? Like I'm paying for it. I'm wow, wow. And but when I tell you, when I tell you, Jesus, every that whole week was like he was the man, like he had the whole jail brands. Yes, yes, this this out. It's allegedly anyway, No, it's not allegedly. Was his name?

He assistently had that.

Had I had a person like fab a person like me, person like us, have we knew that you could legalize this shit eventually? Yeah, Like this guy was the first of everything. Branston Like, I'm just being honest, like like he's my friend, I love him. I don't want to say that he doesn't want this props. I just I want to say what you said. He's from that old school where it's like you don't claim this ship, but

Well he sort of referenced that I didn't want to go expend expend too much on that, but I'm gonna say that that was part of the dynamic in terms of the injustices that too many people have had to go through for this plant, which is basically a harmulous medicinal plant that has been going back to the nineteen thirties that I illustrate, they just whipped it into a frenzy.

So Biggs was one of the victims of that.

Wasn't it a guy who killed his whole family or something like that, and they said it was before we and he was a stohistic.

Yeah, but thank you. The guy was a schizophrenic.

But they whipped it and made it seem like this was a cannabis So that was a part of the of the lies that they used to whip and get congressmen to like criminalize cannabis in nineteen thirty seven. And which was always the guy's name was yeah, but the guy's name, but it was only because people of color were using it and as well as Spanish ber they even gave it the name. That's why people in the cannabis business never used serious. People that get this don't use the term marijuana because.

That was invented.

It was invented by the people that went that went to criminalize cannabis to make it sound Mexican. That word did not exist for the plant in Mexican society, so they got marijuana like Tijuana.

You know, just checking my film.

So there's real serious.

Racism when you dig in to how they targeted certain people and we were victimized largely for that and.

The people around the guana yeah go ahead, Yeah.

That became a nickname for it. So those are all things that they used to get cannabis criminalized.

But cannabis is.

Largely medicine, and that's the thing that we now know more of.

When you get especially good cannabis, there's medicinal value. And once scientists really looked at the plant and studied it and understood there's these various cannabinoids different components, began to isolate the and be like, oh, this really heals pain. It takes the inflesh in inflammation away. And it's the medical usage of the plant that have broken down all these lives and states like California, Colorado, which were out

It's usually medical first.

A couple of years and then people got look, it's helped me with this it's helped me admit that it helps people with pain issues. So a lot of these things are in the process, and you know, I happen to make a film talking about this, showing this his to read the music connection from the jazz people to the hip hop people.

Snoop gave it up for me.

I got my man, you know, uh be real, be real from Cyprus and and then really speaking about the plant.

That's the only part I like, be real to the the the Mount Rushmore and he was like him, Snoop, mav Well, that was yeah, that was like your I'm my invisible I'm with I was like, damn, nigga, I've been here for years. That's what you know. You clearly but segue into into your product.

So basically once again loving cannabis growing up my dad, all those jazz guys with bigger fictionados. It's actually my business partner, Ron Samuel where I.

He was. He's from Cali. He's a brother that was in the game.

In cannabis, seriously moving packs around.

You know, he was in the game, hustling doing this thing. But he sorted.

The legal business opening up and he wanted to dive in.

But being that had he had, he had got caught up in the system, had you know, spent a little time.

They forbid, which.

Are the people that really pioneered it, They forbid you in a lot of these states to be able to get into too the business.

So he was fussing to have a background.

Correct and you've been convicted and you know, felling me whatever it may be, so boom. His whole thing was I want to be a part of this. And he was going to the conventions thinking, you know, this is going back ten or so years as it became a medical thing and a big business in California. How could I be a part of this because I know this, I've done this. And we had a conversation one day. This is back like I think about twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen.

He said, Yo, I figured it out.

I'm going to start a consulting to see company and I'm going to call it forty acres and a greenhouse. And so the idea was to play off for like the forty acres, which really didn't get I was given and taken away and.

That was a that was the idea.

That and to get into the game and you be a be a consultant because all these all these business guys are getting in that really don't know cannabis. He's the cat that did it all up and down Cali Humbo grows, you know, moving packs of serious, high quality cannabis. And so when he said that, we I just cracked up and I was like, oh, what a great idea, what a great name for the for the company.

And this this is my business part in the cannabis.

Brother name Ron Samuel, who's been in the game a long time, he wanted to He said, I'm gonna start a consultancy company called it forty acres in a greenhouse. And I said, that's great. And in the conversation we cracking up and talking, I'm like, but wait a minute.

You know, black folks made.

Jazz records and bigged up the plant back then. Then reggae artists did the same thing, Peter Tosh saying about legalized it over forty plus years ago. And then in my artists that I introduced to the country Snoop, you know Redman method Man. All these cats were the modern day proponents making big hit records about the plant. What

And that's how you discovered be Noble.

Well, how I discovered how b Noble came to be.

The story that I chose to focus on to illustrate just the unfair, just harshness.

Of this criminal justice system.

Was a brother from Louisiana that was given a thirteen year sentence for two joints worth of cannabis. He was in just seven. His name was Bernard Noble. So all people that were fighting two joints of cannabis crazy, A couple of grams, a couple of grahams of cannabis in his pocket, this is what it came out to. So basically enough to roll two joints, we break it down to two joints, but it was.

Just a little bit of week.

You maybe could have rolled like one blood, but basically some shit like that, right, two point whatever grams and this is just illustrates how a lot of the prison system still works. Unfortunately in certain states they're looking to put people in prison just to make money off that prison industrial complex.

All you know, all that nonsense that state that this guy's for a joint. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Listen when Bernard Noble, which is the brother's name, we interview his family because I'm covering the jazz scene in my film, and Louis Armstrong, who's a big part of my film, as you've seen, is from Louisiana. That's where jazz is boring, so we covering that. But then we interview his family, his mom and sisters. They break down, really a sad moment. He's still in prison.

And those are the ones that you were there. That's his family. I'm in the it's all three girls.

Yeah, it's the mother and his three sisters, I believe two or three sisters. Really sad moment that illustrates what this has done to families. Over two joints for the week, his case had become celebrated and a lot of people were campaigning illustrated. In fact, Weis had did a show called Weedkett and that's how I had first seen this episode this his story. A couple of years before, they had a show called Weedicket on Vice TV.

I didn't see that.

It's like an Indian guy that hosted different topics around cannabis.

What was it?

What was it about this particular episode of this show which would do all different types of cannabis coverage, did a show on this brother that was in prison. I remember them talking to his kids and maybe having you maybe heard him on the phone. He might have called in. But when you hear how much we and how much time he got, it was just unbelievable. So I was like, that's the story I'm going to focus on in the film.

Comes out, he says, man, I didn't know what was going on.

There's people in there for less weed Like, he's just blowing my mind.

I mean, I interviewed the former prosecutors that said I couldn't do that anymore looking at how unjust there's certain towns in some of these states the money is made from this local prison which they got to keep full. And this goes back to a film made a Duvene made a documentary also on Netflix called The Thirteenth, which is about the Thirteenth Amendment, which was supposedly the ending of slavery, but it shows how the prison system still manages to enslave people and has.

Working for slave wages.

And it was like this business, this big business unfortunately, like publicly traded private prisons, you know, you know what.

So that motivated me to do a.

Brand in the brother's name and we work with him, and we made a connection with this company, Curely, which is really big cannabis company.

And so we've we've been in the numerous states the.

Non states already, right correct, Yeah, we've been.

Up to nine.

And this was our initial product, which is a two joint pre roll which reflexed read he got popped for little stuff you mentioned that.

Yeah, this is I'm sorry, I get you so this is yeah, I'm taking that.

No, No, like we got you, we got you covered and I got you know yeah, no, we got you covered. And the flower is really incredible, like from really high quality flower that the company has been making sure as a premier brand with a compelling story. I mean, come on, Cannabis is big business, but a lot of brands is just like colorful packaging. And my weed's better than yours.

Now. You know, you only just seven. So we're going to finish quick time with Slim. Yeah.

And by the way, we started another new brand called Jungle Girl, which is only in New York but just a female focus cannabis product. Here as sister named Natalie from Calli who has a fashion brand called j.

Oh No No No. Anybody can smoke it. But what we learned in the in the.

Cannabis scene, particularly people people a lot of people that are.

New don't get bathroom breaks. I love our casual Its.

What we learned in the business since we've been doing this now for like a few years now, a lot of women are now getting comfortable. People, a new audience is getting comfortable with cannabis, and a lot of the chicks can't roll because if you think about it, it takes some time to learn how to prepare and.

Put a joint together.

So pre rolls, particularly for women, are very easy access.

And that's a pack of pre rolls.

Yeah, there's a five pack of little kind of nice, medium, small joints. And we have various like vibrant, you know, euphoric and different kind of things. So we're not trying to get into all the wild names.

Of various strains.

People want to feel a certain way without making it too complicated. So this has taken off really well in New York. Were in a bunch of dispensaries with Jungle Girl and the b Noble brand. You know, we're expanding and it's just really been an incredible run, you know, helping it inform people about these aspects of cannabis. Like just to keep in mind that a lot of people have suffered as a lot of states legalized. You're supposed to be able to expunge your criminal record and stuff.

I didn't realize what the cannabis laws actually were like.

So a lot of and some of the companies that are benefiting off of it being legal, or these huge corporations Larborough.

No, not yet.

Well, the company that we did this licensing deal with, Currely did literally big.

They're very big there in many states.

They started medically, hence the name Cure Leaf Curing, but they really wanted to step up and represent a brand that was speaking to this issue because when you understand cannabis,

It was seriously.

Oh yeah, mostly you know, I mean it's.

White folks as well, but mostly they was pressuring us, whereas in the white neighborhoods kids were smoking just as much we Popo wasn't doing stopping first and running down on them in the same way. So the hint as a hint you have so many people getting jammed up. They really structured the legislation, particularly this state representative, Crystal People Stokes out of Buffalo.

She fought hard for the legislation that we have and.

Whereas if Governor Cromo tried to chop up pieces of the bill, she was like, no, we got to have it like this, and then finally he signed it.

So that's how people get on like that.

Other states have talked about helping people, but it never really came to fruition, you know what I mean that they helped as many people as they said they wanted to. But New York there's a lot of people that you know, have dispensaries now giving it a go, and player they.

Be noble baby fat boys or beastie boys mm hmm boys, Jay Z or Big Daddy Kane. I can't touch that.

Y'all got to drink up, love them both to death. Big Daddy Kane is from not far from where I'm from in bed style.

You know, I'm from Hancock.

Lewis and Garby used to be Lewis and Sumner and Kane is from Lewis about four or.

Five blocks away. Yeah, big daddy.

He was on one of the first episodes of your TV raps as well Him Rock Him Yes, okay, Charlie Chase or read Alert. Wow wow men, I can't do neither one of the I love both of them.

Man.

Wow, this list is murder. But y'all gonna get drunk. That's no I'm cool now.

I'm just saying yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They knocked it back.

Drink champs are serious, you know.

Debbie Harry or Cydy lap Oh man, you know I love Cyndy La. Gotta get my shot ready.

Debbie Harry is Debbie Harry's family, so you know, love it, love love me some. Debbie Harry, b Street of wallstof I mean, come on, y'all, wow, the first, the best, the original.

DMC or E P M D. You know I ain't touching none of that.

I directed one of the e PM's early videos. I directed Strictly Business, Strictly.

Business, E P M D. Okay, Nas or L L COJ.

I directed one of the early when of Nas is the early videos which one One Love, Yes, One Love.

Did you know that?

No?

I did know that. That's great man.

Yeah. I literally filmed in his apartment in Queensbridge. His moms were still up in that apartment. Nas was just beginning to take off. But I shot the scenes right in that apartment.

So let's tell us about that, all right. So you get the call from Faith. No no, no, no, no.

I know Faith going way back, it would happen often, which was a really a blessing. I'm hosting your MTV raps, so Nas once again makes his national television debut with me on your MTV raps. Of course, the buzz was phenomenal, you know. I of course heard like, you know, Live at the Barbecue actually had happened already, I think, so I'm not sure about that one, but definitely Live at

I'd be like, Oh, okay, that's sort of thing in there.

If you know now you talking about when you really get him going, he'll come out of it. So I knew I wanted to And then when so when we did the interview on your MTV raps, he was They told me the story, how, Yo, man, I can't believe I'm sitting here with you. This is this was no, this is actually On the part of the interview, he says, man, like, my pop took me to see wild Style like when I was ten, and I can't believe I'm sitting here talking to you and dah and so then he's asking

And so that's how that started.

Right there, because he realized other things I made, like I did just to get a just to get a rep of course, but I also did yeah, just getting as bad and rode to the riches for g wrap those is real now of storytelling. That that's you know, I knew I could could handle that, and so yeah.

Well it's full circle being that he used whilst all in the project too.

It was just connection was incredible.

Plus being at his father was a jazz musician, I could sense that sensibility in his whole attitude and flow. And then as you learn more later, that was shooting fact as Pops used to live.

Near me in Harlem. Olu Dara is his dad who's a really.

Renowned you know, horn sax player, and his dad introduced him to a whole lot of you know, conscious stuff, and you know, it just it was just perfectly. It worked out perfectly. He made a young prodigy. And so that song One Love was like a script. I mean, it's perfect the construct of that song.

You suggested you film that or they called you.

Well, when I met Nasa and I told them things I made, and he said, oh you know you made just to get a rep.

You did. Wow, you know I want to work with you.

My philosophy every because the videos the only MTV at a point started putting the director's name up mostly you didn't know and then you know you, people didn't know who directed was, but the MTV started doing that, so it was really a good look. People got to know Williams, you know fab or this one Lionel Martin. Different people were directed and it was people begin to pay attention.

But with NASA's thing, it was perfect.

I was like, oh man, I got this.

And the hard thing was the casting and something that I'm really flattered about with the one Love video is hyped to the scene in Belly, which was very kid, the young kids sitting down in a bench and so yeah, and they recreated a scene very similar with Na sitting on the bench talking to this young want to be thug type cat.

The problem I.

Would often have with music videos, the budgets wasn't enough for me to really hire actors, so oftentimes I would have to run out and try to find somebody that can be the character that I needed. So I know, I need this young kid for this scene that I have in my mind, I'm riding around. I don't know where I'm going to find this kid. But we was in Harlem one day and I saw this kid, this is before cell phones, was really mad.

Comment.

These two young kids on the corner with a with a with a house phone, a Courtland's house phone, fronting like like brick on the brick phone. Yeah, not as big as a brick, but the same idea. I got a cell phone and it was fronting like and they really was swagged out. They was like thirteen ish and so I drove by and I seen these two kids on the corner. I said, yo, I told my man, I said, yo, spin back around, let me run over

Hey, how you doing, shorty? We on what your name? What you doing?

So we had a little conversation with him, and as I'm talking to him, I said, yo, I think this kid can do that because he was trying to be like a lot older. He had a real hard rock swagger and boom. I got his mom's number and I reached out and booming and that made it happen.

So that's the kid that's on the plays that whole Yeah.

You know, dad, that's all. I can't remember the lyric, but he's like.

I would go when I come back home, nobody's out for short. He do roll in two phillies together and the bridgerie called him hu and you know, the whole thing and ship, and the kid played the ship off lovely. You know, I wear a bulletproof or pack of you know. He was that he had that whole ship that I need care. Caught him on the corner bee and got him to play that cat.

I talked to him from Queensbridge. But so in the scenes when NaNs, you know, I do the whole shooting scene and whatever those was real.

Those was the real Queensbridge cats, Like people was really playing themselves. Then I do the jail scene, you know, and I bust a bunch of them cats out to this.

We found a local like.

A local jail that looked like an old style prison, had tears and ship, and that's where we did the jail scene where his man that's writing him is in jail, you know.

So that was fun to do.

That video because it was the song was perfect.

I just had to put the right. Don't one kind of like made a song like that prior to that? Right? No, I don't think. I don't think.

I think everyone not with that level.

I mean I would like to think so people like I think people tried to be like cinematic and tell a story.

But that was my thing. I knew I could handle it. But not only was to telling the story he was he was telling a story for right now, for a person that's in jail.

Oh you mean in terms of the the way that he wrote, man, No, listen, it's beyond yeah.

It was yeah, man.

So let me tell you another thing we did. There was a cat in the directing game that came up under me, brother from Brooklyn, name named Black. Name is Brian LeVar. That was my man, and he got on you know, he was the PA on some videos, but I saw he had flavor. He was a real deal cat out of Bushwick, Brooklyn. So he worked his way up to where I knew it was time for him to get a shot directed. So I'm setting up and developing everything to shoot the video for One Love Ye.

Bring Back. This is Philly Blunt beautifully Road. It was Boris. Oh he eat is chicken and fries. That's it. That's so, and he's a vegan.

So basically else I'm preparing. I'm preparing to do the one Love video and Nas calls me and says, Yo, I want you to do this other video I want to drop. It's a remix to the World Is Yours. He wants me to do that too.

But you know, I'm like, man, this is a lot so.

But my man, who was like my right hand on doing videos, he was assistant director, like he learned the entire game and wanted to direct. So I basically got him to direct the remix to the World Is Yours.

And what we came up with. What I told my man we should do is I said, listen, because the box.

Was really popular, and like, you need to note it now exactly. You call it up and you could pick the number you did late at night, the video would.

Come right on.

So I said, listen, come up with a story in the video with it is a kid that a character.

We'll both cast him together.

I'll make sure he's right, and then at the end of whatever you come up with, this kid is going to run away to get away from like Popo or something like some setup he had with the popo was raising like a gate.

And dude got away and he ran.

And that cat who ran we worked it all out with the same outfit and everything is the kid that you see in the beginning of the One Love video running and this is a kid that plays that whole character in jail whatever that Nasa is writing the letters to and you see the kid run. The video opens with him running and the police jump out and they lock him down. The Nasa is in the project window and he's like damn. And that's so we the whole

He says, Yo, what up kid? No sh rush When the cops came to my crib time looking back and.

Done, Puss, congratulations, you know you got a son by that point. By that point, you seeing him in jail now readognized his letters.

I think that is genius.

That was a moment I was so proud of.

And my man got to direct, and now he was in the game because now he'd have made his first video.

He went on to do a lot of He did a lot of ship.

In fact, he did a video for Big Al you know, and he got his he got his ship on them. He's still in the film game. My man, my man, black, what up?

Black?

Yeah?

Yeah, man, So that's a fun story.

Yeah, yes, yes, yes, speak time. Oh yeah, please all right? Scene or Zephyr, Oh man, you're gonna have to drink on that. Hold up both for the cast.

I mean, Zephy is one of the stars of Wild Style. The scene is incredible. Man, my man, seeing from the v X.

Yes, eighties or nineties hip hop?

Wow, wow, damn n, y'all gotta drink.

I love them both eighties and nineties. How y'all.

I'm so cruel with these company.

I can't.

It's hard to shoot on nothing. Cocaine section over there, you shot on anything over here? Drink look for this one. No I did that. You get to put it? Look. Look I'm waiting for come on all right, basket or Warhol Oh man, these.

Every time there's people that I really love, like.

Bro, he said, Haiti night.

I love both of them, man, you say both ball man and yes.

Yes recipes, Yes, the recipes of both.

Of them, man, both of my homies right there, all right?

The Ramones or Agnostic Front, Oh wow, definitely the Ramones.

I know Queen's right cool, the Ramones. I think they was just right. Really, yes, they from Queens. You don't watch the Entourage. I mean it's been a long time. They showed the Ramote being from Queen.

I think they definitely was from Queens. Yeah, they was definitely New York casts. Interesting rock and roll high school.

Talking about that. So Queens was b X. Wow, don't say both man, Wow, to go back to you, I mean, I'm from Brooklyn, so you should be Queens.

Yeah, neither.

I can't.

Yeah, I can't ship on.

Queens qualified queens.

In the boogie down Bronx.

You know.

Grandma's a flash or cor work.

Y'all gotta drink, man.

Jesus Chris, one of them be.

We're not gonna be able to be here with you, right found man, y'all gotta come with some crazy ship. You should have some some people that were certifying.

Kill us over there? All right? Oh, we gotta drink. Guys are the Dominican and uh oh my god, cypricill or House of Pain. Oh man, neither man. I love both of them guys too. Man, So you say both of both ship? Yeah, yeah, same crew.

That's what I'm saying basically, I mean, come on, I gott drink both of them debuted your TV baps.

Relaxed Sonny mann't even oh drink yo, This drink Champs is real. I see that.

Yeah, they're playing over here when we take the pictures like we can at Bernie's.

Okay, what an experience you guys.

N y C Breakers of rock Steady Crew.

Oh man, definitely rock Steady Crew. Okay, I was afraid say both of them. I mean respect to New York City Breakers, but rock Steady Crew for sure. Baby, come on, we made history together here.

It's your favorite. It's done wild style baby.

Wu tang Oh wait wait hold up? So NYC Breakers were not at all washed all? I don't know, No, just just Rocksteady, rock Steady Okay.

Yeah, Wu Tang or n w A, oh man, I can't mess with that, y'all.

Come up with these on such another man's shop, bro Colombian and Dominican section of Idea. They come up with the questions what y'all is? Yo?

That's why point y'all out? Oh my good.

Man, how you how did you do this? We did? We did? They on that day?

A Rahap City or video music box, Video music box come one percent?

All right, here we go. Last one loyalty or respect?

Wow, I mean both are essential ship both for mandatory, so just so we got to do both.

I like it, but I want to get on it because grow Oh cool? What the fuck?

Man?

You don't even both for mandatory. Yeah he's been around.

Yeah, No, I've definitely been around.

And those are those are.

That's foundational right there?

You need both?

Lord, man, you know what's incredible?

DJ Premier it was this twenty nineteen, right before the pandemic. So my film drops on for twenty and twenty nineteen, Grass is Greener my documentary on Netflix.

Over too many people viewed my joint. It was crazy.

I'm sure a lot more said that was numbers I got back. Then DJ Premier called me up because so I did. I did two videos, well, I did just to get a rap and then I did another video for Guru and a French rapper. That was a real pivotal, pioneering French rapper that opened up the scene named EMC Solar, not the other empty Soular.

That was the one that was involved with Guru to us and that was.

Another I'm talking about the original one in my book in Guru's album though, So hit me out the story I'm getting too. That's the story I'm telling you. This is French Guru, I'm sorry, French EMC solo and the song is called lobiena Lamar. It was on that Jazmine Tag record. I direct that video and so yeah, the shot I shot it in Paris. It was the idea of the video, which was a you know, being in past I used to. I fell asleep on the Paris metro once and woke up and I was like, man,

Similar, Like, but you're gonna wake up neckad in New York, New York, You're gonna wake.

Up neck know you want to try it? You know how you just doze off.

Those off are different from one of us.

Know, you're right, you know you're doing to change, Yeah, and you just it's amazing how you can go to sleep on the train pack with people, but if you ride the subway in New York, that's something you can do. And I had this would have this like a vision of this happening.

So the way that.

Video opens that video for that song, Guru gets a call from MC Solar. He runs down the New York City subway, he comes out of the Paris Metro and they run.

We run all over Paris filming them do this song together.

Uh.

So I was like, you know, a really really uh But anyway, so.

I did two videos that and the just to get a wrap and so Primo calls me and he says, listen, man, there was a legal fight with this other Solar person and we got back the rights or all the other materials that Google when he passed. This dude had hold held on to everything and Primo and his family, so you know, you know, you know the half on that. So Primo is like, listen, man, I got this one track and I created a new bee for it. It's called Family and Loyalty this track.

And uh, the most recent.

This is the most recent, you know. I yeah, it's a real good. So the idea was in the hook of the song Diamonds. It is a reference to like diamonds in forever, like you know, yes, diamonds are forever, like like he's just like lawyer, see thank you.

Thank you, thank you.

So it's this whole thing about diamonds, and I'm like, man, how do I deal with this without being like a gratuitous bling bling kind of thing? But how do I address these diamonds? So I came up with this concept which the video opens with the reading of Guru's will, and in his will, this lawyer states and Guru's will these raw diamonds were given to him by an African prince, and Guru's son, Primo was like, his son has to be in it.

Sons like a young man now twenty two, twenty whatever.

And basically the concept of the video is when his son gets these diamonds, I shoot him going around Harlem cast selling t search on the street, go to this juice barn one forty fifth and they bless the people with these raw diamonds, like on some gratitude shit. So it's a whole nother way of dealing with the stones and stuff. Anyway, it was a fun video.

Ja Cole is also on that. Thanks for remembering, Yes, Jacle that's from the newer game, the newer Gang Star Joint.

Yeah yeah, Jacole, we go down to North Carolina and I shoot Jacole. Anyway, it was just such a special vibe that guru and artist that I work with, and here's a song, you know, like a new song.

So it was a real privilege to.

Do that video, which felt like videos back in the nineties, like I did it real rough running gun.

You know, and uh yeah, anyway, thank you, thank you man.

I can't thank you enough man, because it's been so much fun waiting no no, no, not your turn.

This is your house, thank you your place. You know the fact that black media is to control of black media or hip hop, it's take control of hip hop media and me and I think could like sit back and say that, you know, we kind of like I was trying to do that, but when we spoke about that, it's always been about what you've done for us, and

Yeah, it's a thrill and a blessing that you know, just seriously to be kicking it like all, kept it, keep it real, basic and organic, and I'm still my mind is blown that just continues in such an incredible way, especially not just I mean, everything has gone on here, I see how real it is. But once again, like I said earlier, you see how it's touched people.

Around the world. You know, it's like the world it really is, man.

And that's one of the sad things in a sense, because we're in a culture now that technologically has completely changed and things happen at hyper speed literally from the technology that's coming into play, every other weakest in the AI advancement and this is happening and more and more

Fly is way possible. Props was a currency completely and so.

All of that, I think the roots went down really deep, and that's I think significant to where it has.

Blossomed so much fruit.

That's so continuous, and this thing when it seems kind of flat, it'll switch up on you in real unexpected way, which.

Is that's optimistic, man, I hope that to be true.

Well, it's been consistent for me.

There's been many times, and you know, I've been involved for quite a while when it seems like it's kind of flat, it's kind of corny, it's kind of whatever, and then there's a whole new energy. That's why I don't just difference was like a lot of times old it heads just you know, try to say people mumbling or just skinny jeans. And you know, I get that because people lock into the error when when they emerge what they hear. But you got to remain open minded,

Yeah, my only concern with it is the is confusing what the overcorporatization of it versus what the real art is. Like, don't let the corporate push convince you that this is what it is. When ye let your heart tell you what the heart is. You know what I'm saying, that's that's I don't know if that makes sense.

No, it makes a lot of sense.

But along that line, the way the dissemination of music now is so completely different with DSPs. I mean, anybody can post something on YouTube right now. I mean, it's kind of amazing. You you know, it doesn't make sure you guarantee you you know what I mean. So the democratization is there, but it's also like, you know, you know it's it's a it's a it's a whole new landscape of stuff that's more open like those companies that had control.

That's no more. I want, I want to take a quick advantage of homing of ours. Scam come over here really quick, just really quick to show your face. So because of the art aspect that you bring to everything you brought to hip hop. He's the guy that created our logo. This is scam off, you know, scam. Yes, but he did the album cover for beach Rhyme and Life for Trype called Quest, the Eminem artwork, amongst a lot more. I always use those two beach rybes in

Tips a good buddy of mine. Man and him connect all that's amazing. Congratulations, that's one of your images.

I just want to shut out because he's he has that's that's yours. What's what's what's on the show to now? Okay, yeah he's and he's from here from Miami Herald City.

Yeah yeah yeah, Mario bro Yes, yes, man, that's well.

I love the logo, man, this is that's really fun. It helped us. We have an iconic logo and this is definitely wow. Congratulations.

Yes, yeah, this is a great logo, great great, great branding.

Yeah you know, yes for pleasure man. Yeah, so this has been iconic. Man, man, thank you man.

I was so I'm the one that this is so great. You guys got such great energy one time.

This is your house. Thank you so much. I will be back. I appreciate it so much.

I used to feel so bad. I know, people on your team hit me up a few times and I just liked. You know, the last few times I was in this neckative Woods Miami was to go on the reggae cruise like the people that promote that and put that together. Yeah, the Marley's and what I want to Oh no, man, this is be in the hogh Seas with all that great reggae.

It's that's a big reggae he you know.

I directed all the most of the mostly all the shava ranks this video.

The fuck out.

Yes I did shiploaded and I was deep into that scene trailer loaded girls, mister loving man, slow and sex scene. Yes, yes, yes, I did all most of the shoppers about by at least five videos for Shaba at the same time.

I was out there. I'm sure he was great.

Great over here, man, I was deeply immersed in that dance sall scene because we would cover it on your TV raps. But coming up in Brooklyn, I was around like, you know, from back when the Posse's was popping and I'm hearing, you know, the earliest dancehall people.

I was tuned in.

So when I got to work with Shaba, I was able to go to Jamaica for the first time and meet some of the Illis cats, you know, and really get immersed in the ghetto culture. You know, Willie, I God and Bogo like I was moving with them cats in jungle and because once again I'm coming down there, I'm a super cat. He was coming off the stage performing that sting. He introduced me to Willi. I got

I see Willie, he said, Man, people.

Calling me from everywhere if I'm London to see me with you, I'm like, whoa. So we got tight and I'd hang with those cats quite que quite seriously, that was a fun experience. Man.

The book comes out, What's yes.

March tenth, everybody's fly and bookstores.

So do we take a shot for the book? Just one shot? I was, but we gotta let you choose what we got here. What's that is? Mamajuana Dominican? What is that? That's some hip made in a bathtobe. You can do a religious ceremony, or you can enjoy your drink. I want baby, go with this. You're gonna go fireball. I wouldn't suggest that you want that. I talk about it. You want to.

I'm gonna just take a little bit. I'm thank you so much. I just want to taste it.

What is that? Okay? All right? All right, all right, so you you got to body? I got I got a Runners drink.

I'm taking this, don't you?

Yeah? You do me under the bus.

I just thought the story behind it was so dope. I mean, I want to take something that.

Runners is just with but hold on, holdt me, just take me and I'm a partner right here. Yes, we love hip hop, man, absolutely. I might love the more fashionable part of hip hop. He might love the grittiest part of hip hop, but me and him have the same exact passion. And when we know that we have fucking Freddy, we were so excited. We both like, I love the fact that no matter where we at in life, we always come together and say, this is what we

I'm tasting.

That's what I do.

I'm gonna taste some cinnamon whiskey. The brand is fire. But take the mother the fact that people.

How you the guy stop taping, Yo, just taste good.

It's like I told you, like like mouthwash.

They call them drinks li coure that you mix with it tastes good. They give you the means yea more time on your yeah. Let me tell you something, man, thank you so much, thank you for what you did, because I want you to on a Sunday, on a Sunday, on a Sunday, I want you to open up it's called black Internet is open it up and it's gonna be fifteen million podcasts if you could look at it. And I want you to say to the y'all, owe me flowers. Because the first black media that made it

You guys man, this is definitely one of my top hip hop media experiences. Yes, because you guys are so passionate I've watched salute on ten years in the game, like you can feel it.

It's and even.

Everybody in the room that's down, I've heard people clapping. I get to see everybody up in the building.

This is really special.

You guys are doing it so salute to doing something so real and definitely carrying on like literally the baton in terms of realness.

This is it.

I mean, you don't fake this ship. That's why people try you guys.

Yes, yes, uh h you on like white people's shows. And I said, this is squad because it's like, all right, cool, I've seen what what like MV like my man, I mean, man like certain like when I was watching your interviews that I watched black and I watched and I was, you know, I'm trying to you know, trying to be official, you know what I'm saying. But when I see you and I'm like, yo, you know how to do that?

Prison allowed us the time to like read things, study things, and sting like that. So it's like, if I'm in a peaceful room, I'm peaceful. If I'm in a room on some bullshit, then I'm with that too. If I'm on a room, that's that's If I'm in a room that's about progression, then that's what we're talking about.

That's what we're on.

Adaptation, adaptation, right, being able to adapt, that's the way you stay here.

We ain't always gonna be hot nigga, be like, oh you watch stuff. You old nigga.

You ain't who you used to be. But that don't define you. You still gotta you still got to be able to turn those corners. So being able to adapt to the times, to be able to adapt to climate, to be able to adapt.

To the wounds that we're in. No nigga, that's me.

But I mean that's not normal. Like you, you're a genius man, like trust me. Like I I was, I was taking a jog this morning. Well my boy Henry, and I was watching all your interviews, watching it all, and I was like, Yo, this dude is mad smart like and it made me mad that six years ago people well that's all they were saying, Oh, you're a street dude, your doug dude. And I'm looking at your progress to where you're at. I'm like, yo, man, you you're a smart dude. Bro.

Me being a street nigga is smart is a footnote in my life. Bro, that's a little that's a small part of my life. I look, you know what I'm saying.

Look that ain't.

That ain't gonna be ever be something that I denied. That ain't ever gonna be something that I'm ashamed of. That where I come from, what I come from, what I've been through the issues that I had. Yeah, but that also helped define you, right, because what you've been through helped shopping you in a certain way to make you who you are.

Right, whatever it's meant to be will be.

So it's like, yeah, I've been through prisons, I've been through wars, I've been through I've been through extreme violent situations. Right, l L told me this.

L L told me say, Yo, don't let your past failures handcuffed. M hmm, I said what you mean? He said, Then you might drop a white album. It won't sell, But the fuck that keep going? Nigga act like act like you did. Nigga, act like you just went platinum. Don't let your past failures and that and that that that's attributed to every angle of life.

If you didn't been in prison, you've been in the street.

Like just because you started one way, that doesn't determine how you finish. So what we've been involved in this, that don't mean that we can't put our suits on and sit in these rooms and talk to these.

People about life and build on some progress. They don't mean that.

It don't mean that at all, my nigga.

You know, Man, I can't thank you enough.

Man, I thank you.

Man. I wanted to give your flowers.

Man, thank you for thank you for giving me my motherfucking flowers. I never had too many flowers.

And fog.

I want to put you on somethingcause I'm here. I'm down here for the weekend because a friend of mine is just open up a restaurant in Miami and.

It is.

Probably gonna be the the top restaurant in the city. Talk about it.

It's called Nouveau. Shout out to my people, Ebony Caro, shout out the wrong. Shout out to Yandy because she's involved with that. It was yes, big grand opening last night. And this is why I'm down here. We out here celebrating that. You seeing what I'm saying is it's in one what Okay? So it's right here, right here there, right here. It's new Veau.

What I'm telling you.

The food is good? You like y'all?

Come on, I've been right now.

Yeah, we can do that, absolutely, absolutely, you can do that. All right, he can do that? Hey you do that? Yes, take the picture.

Drink Champs is a Drink Champs ll C production hosts and executive producers n O.

R E and d J. E.

F N.

Listen to Drink Champs on Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs, hosted by Yours Truly dj E f N and n O r E. Please make sure to follow us on all our socials that's at Drink Champs across all platforms at the Real noriagon ig at Noriega on Twitter, mine is at Who's Crazy on ig at dj E f N on Twitter, and most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news and merch by going

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