Episode 394 w/ Grandmaster Flash

He is drinks chests, motherfucking podcast makes He's a legendary queens rapper.

He ain't agree.

That's your boy in O R E.

He's a Miami hip hop pioneer put up as d J e f N.

Together they drink it up with some.

Of the biggest players, you know what I mean, and the most professional, unprofessional podcast and your number one source.

For drunk drink chans.

Mothers Day is New Year's c That's it's time for drink champs.

Drink up, motherfucker?

Would good be you hoping this would have stupid? This is your boy in O R E. What up is DJ e f N. This is Militopa crazy wore drink Champs.

Ye.

When me and e f N started this show, got together and we said, we want to give flowers, we want to give props, we want to give love to the people who came way before us.

You know, to the icons. To literally if.

This man that we're about to introduce right now, if it wasn't for him, this show wouldn't exist, DJs wouldn't exist, Hit records wouldn't exist.

This man has been there, He is is all and is all.

Legendary icon, they said, the first time you ever heard of a scratch period in hip hop, it was his fingers. We're gonna make sure we get a fingerprint of his fingers today. He is a legend of a legend. We are so when we started this show seven years ago, we wanted to give this man his flowers so bad and we are so happy today. Me and EFN as been like, this is Christmas, even though it is a New Year's gift for you motherfuckers, this is Christmas for me and e FN because we we're gonna start this

We don't stop theself.

You know what, why we do the flowers. This is why we get the flowers. It's in case you don't know who the fuck we're talking about.

We're talking about the one.

Man.

Yeah, we are so happy to have you here, and I'm so happy that you're you're like crazy because you got you got.

Notes, you have got back. I think it's the only people who came with notes.

I'm gonna key.

Yes, you know I didn't think mathematically and with science. That's that's pretty much how I do things.

You know what I'm.

Okay, so we're gonna start this off. We're gonna start so I'm gonna get straight to it. Did you ever do cocaine?

James? No, actually, Rick James. Rick James was a musical mentor. Okay to me. Okay, so this is what I mean by that. We were on tour and our tour buss busses were close together, and I seen Rick and Rick sat me down and said, the records you got is really big, man. You're publishing should be huge. Wow you I said, you didn't know about publishing.

At this time.

I said, what is it I thought about I thought it was a book.

You didn't say what is published?

Publishing? Yeah, because books are publisher So me and Rick were talking. He broke it down to me what it was. So when we got back home from the tour, you know, I went to the the first five tour, the Grand Master Fest, went back to the office and I started asking questions.

So let's just.

Say, you know, things got a little rocky. You know, things is got a little strange because you got realized coming from the hood and doing this thing in the streets, we was kings. You know what I'm saying that going to the record business. We know what this ship was, you know what I mean? So, uh, let's just say

Did you hear about warranties back then?

Yes, I heard roughly about royalties, but the publish that they didn't have a clue about that, you know so, and there was a lot of other business factors that I didn't know about. Uh, to find out about it late in the game, shit got really ugly, you know what I mean.

That's pretty much.

And it's crazy that even it's early in the game that you got in in terms of hip hop being monetized, and still it took decades, almost a decade or more for hip hop to get hit to the publishing game and the and the and the legalities of the industry and how the industry was working.

Right, like for example, me being the first human sampler. Like even the lawyers at that time couldn't figure out this division of music is taking a portion of an existing composition and they and they're inserting it into a new composition. How do we quantify that? The music business

Okay, come on, because we had I think we had someone on here and they said that Molly was the first person to sample on record. But you're saying you're the first person in the sample period.

He invented. What I actually invented was sampling. Okay, what I actually invented is human sampling. I took a particular area of the existing composition, preferably the area where there was no singing, just the drummer and maybe light accompaniment might be the drummer in the bassis, the drummer in the throw this. And when I did this with two copies of record, this particular area of the song was ten seconds long.

That pissed me to fuck off.

So I had to figure out the way, how can I take this ten seconds from this? Pop rock, jazz, blue funk, disco, R and B, alternative, Caribbean Latin this one particular section and elongated just enough so that the breakers could have a steady beat to dance on. Later, it became the music bed for the rapper to speak on. Today they called it rap. Back then, we called it him singing. I gotta.

But by way go ahead, because we still didn't get a yes and no.

If you sniffed copd no, no you never said yes.

I know, but but I know because I feel like we're jumping a little bit further than I would want to because I go back.

I want to go back.

Let's go back.

What's you because you started as you were a kid, we started doing this. So who's around you? What does influenced you? What is happening and shaping hip hop at this time? Where are you at when when Hirk's doing the parties? Like, where is this all beginning for you?

My beginning was.

My father was an avid collective of records, but he's his main job was a track repairman in New York for the subway.

Wow, my dad had this closet.

And the rules in the Saddler house was this, never go in that closet where Dad's music lives, and do not go into the living room where the brown box lived. And as a single digit toddler, I was wondering, why is that Dad would come home, Mama feed and his dinner, he'd gave this alcoholic beverage. He would go to this closet and he will open this closet and e there was these square things with art on it, a train, flowers, people, picture of a can. I'm wondering.

What is he going to do with that?

And inside this square thing he pulls out this black circular thing. I wasn't allowed in the living room unless I was accompanied by an adult. He's an adult, So I follow him into the living room where the brown box lives. He pulls out this circular, brown black thing. He puts it inside this brown box and this arm thing goes up. The record goes down as the sound comes out of the brown box. I thought my dad was a fucking magician. How could he pull this off?

I see many of.

These square things in this closet. I I grabbed the nearest one. Now. Remember now, I've been watching him the routine. So I take the nearest square one. I pull out this circular thing. I go over to the brown box. I watched him do the routine. How you press the button. He puts it on this stick thing. It sits up, the arm goes up, the vinyl goes down. Was it called vinyl? Do you know what it was called? The arm goes down? Music comes out of there. I'm dancing

I grabbed this needle.

I turned the stereo partially on so that the arm went and go up, and I took the needle and I put it down on the black disc. I felt vibration coming through my fingers. Oh, the music lives in the black tunnels. From this point on, I got goosebumps.

My nigga, hold on, I'm sorry, man, this is getting real goo ahead.

From this point on, I figured out where the music was coming from. As I got older, I now wanted to I just could not understand. How is it? What is that little red light when Dad pushes his button, and everything in the house that was operable, let's say, was being plugged into this thing into the wall. I'm like, what are these two little holes? And how are things happening? So, as a young teenager, I was unscrewing the back of everything, the stereo in the living room, the table radio, my

Nicola.

This is where I learned about amplitude modulation AM, frequency modulation FM, solid state versus vacuum tubes. What is her own meter? What is a signal generator? These are the things that you diagnose circuits. What is the bread board? What is a resistant? What is the capacitor? What is a transformer? What is a step up step down transformer? What is a diode?

What is a tube?

Now I got to understand what these things was and how they worked. So once I understood what Tesla did, which is alternating current, and Edison did direct current. Now behind the projects of the Throws, next project behind twenty seven thirty Dewe Avenue there was a junkyard people throughout the stereos, burned out cars, burned out.

Stuff was back there.

So now e and NORII, I'm dragging this stuff inside the grib. My moms, my sisters is like, what are you doing. I started to understand how I could take this piece from here and this piece from here and this piece from here, and started building my own amplifier to build my speakers. I had to understand how they work. You had your own speakers, right, I built my own speakers, so listen to me. Can'tflee gods.

We get ready to go. We get ready to go to the rabbit hole. I didn't do this on any other show.

Difference between you and her is that you had your own speakers.

That he had a pretty pretty silence. So my system was shipped. So it's a difference. But here's the difference.

With me.

I had to figure out how the speaker works. So I say my way was math and science. So math is bars how to count them fronts and backwards. This is what DJs do, right. The science is kinetic energy. And here's how I went about understanding.

That's why we're gonna be a DJ. I ain't that some mark.

When you put the vinyl on the platter and you allow it to spin up to speed, and you put the needle on the vinyl. The move of air, it is connectic energy out of the turntable, goes into the receiver. It becomes electrical energy. Out of the back of the receiver, it goes through the speakers that returns back to connectic energy. That's science. There are those and I look at Wikipedia. I'm so angry at them. I came up with this of building a amplifier and human samping from no one.

My mom taught me what.

The value of a needle was, and my father, kicking my ass, taught me the value of what final was. Samuel gomp has taught me how to put it all together. So when I go up on the turntables. This is what made me fall in love with DJ and the disco DJ yo E, my Boya, Larry Levan, Grandmaster Flowers,

Of the record.

But when I thought I listening to other records, I noticed that that part was incredibly short. That made me so fucking angry. And that's when I had to figure out, how can I take this part thatst like five ten seconds and e law gated ten minutes seamlessly, so the people on the dance floor wouldn't have a clue of what I was even.

Doing. No other DJ gave me this inspiration.

The disco DJs taught me the law of being a DJ respectfully for people who's on the dance floor, heads should go like this. If you're playing good Times, heads should go like that. If you're playing Queen, heads should go like that if you're playing jay Z, heads should go like that.

If you're playing.

Drake, DJ should not be hold on okay, head should not when the DJ transition. Head should not be going like this trying to find a beat that is breaking the law of transition DJAN.

And that's where my ship comes from, right Is DJ Hollywood considered a DJ just because DJ When I met.

Hollywood, he was bigger than disco and he was actually king in the discos and he was actually one of the first DJs I seen that was able to have four or five parties in one night, like we would set out, set out equipment up and play form nine to four and the gymnasium or whatever whatever. This motherfucker was playing eleven o'clock at Club one in Manhattan and then maybe twelve to one in Brooklyn, Club two, and then Club three. Is that lowland? This montherfuckers getting kk

Because said disco. Yeah, I know, we bouncing around a little bit.

What is the what is the term?

When's the first time you heard the term.

Mc in.

The first time I heard the term mc in? That's when I took the microphone.

All right. I was playing in sixty three park Frox.

Steve jaying. People were looking at the table. What its his magic? Tricking that shit he's doing. I needed somebody to take the attention off of me. I'll put a microphone on the other side of the table, Norrie and anybody that I could talk to. This new style of djy in lots of motherfuckers was whack. But it was this one guy that I eventually met. His name was Keith Wiggins. Street name is Cowboy, Keith Cowboy, Keith Cowboy. If I played Apache or play whatever, he had a

Okay, let me interrupt you a little bit, because all right, but what are you playing? If this record wasn't made, what are you actually d.

I'm playing Apache, I'm playing Rufus Thomas. I'm playing an incredible bob Go band. I'm playing oh Man. I'm playing Curtis Mayfield. I'm playing all early Man Drill. I'm playing early Barrier White. I'm playing I'm in my I'm in my head right now because I want to establish this.

I want to establish this for all the listeners listening.

You're saying the very first hip hop parties.

Didn't play hip hop. What he was doing was eventually just think about thinking about the lagic of what you're just saying, like, because this is a hip hop Remember hip hop isn't just the music of it.

But we're still think and we still got this hip hip hop the wrapping side of its developing. When he came out, actually wasn't playing hip hop.

And now see this is where we different.

So the question is this what was hip hop back then?

Hip hop was a regurgitation of using songs that already exist exactly. Some of our dopest songs were white records and black records and foreign records. On American records, they were R and B. They would disco, they were jazz, they were Latin, they were but we had to find that little So when I started playing, I can remember guys that used to use what I call heavy on the toe arm type DJ N and as Pete would say, trade records. I was probably the most hated DJ during

I tried getting jobs and clubs. Motherfuckers was like YO.

And some of the DJ that was play ain't at that time when my friends aren't YO telling the boss man, let me get a job.

You're like YO, last day know about you?

Man?

Like you? You moved your record back and forth, you put your fingers on it, you crayon marks in it. I couldn't get a job to save my mother, but they thinking maybe I probably was gonna spread that for me today DJ. So it wasn't until I went to this club on the off days on one hundred and sixty seventy set in Jerome and it's Italian guys own this disco club called disco Field.

All right, come on.

So I go in there and I mean Ali and sal Sal's the son, Ali's the father, And I say to him, well, uh, did you do you think I could get a night in here? Because Salad already heard of me, and I found that out recently. He went to the park and seeing this thing that I was doing. So by the time I got to him, I was like, yosel, you did I could get a Saturday night in your club? He looked at me like I was fucking crazy, right, he says.

No.

He says, what I will do is I'll give you a Tuesday. I was angry as a fucking He said, flash, if you do this, I promise you this is gonna make you huge. I was angry at first. Two months later Tuesday was rivaling Saturday. Then I got a Wednesday. So this is when I started playing in clubs with this. So I bought hip hop into disco Fever. And the people that used to come there hecked the Mansall Camacho, the Gap Band, like all the big stars that if they were in town, they came to disco Fever. They

Okay, what is considered the first hip hop club?

WHOA?

You know, it's hard to say because when we was playing in the parks and this is where I kind of step out of this. In my humble opinions, I do not think a DJ came up with the title h I P H O P. They said Cowboy or love Bucks Dartsky, but they both were rappers, So it's still up for whatever for debate, debate where he came from. I personally think, in my opinion, when we was doing this earlier, early and early on, I think that it

That's what I I personally called it. So it started with Keith Cowboy. That's what I say that I'm saying.

That's what I say. The others say, you know, and this is where I'm really said Cowboy here as well. I'm kind of confused.

It is because, Okay, put it this way.

Coo Hurk incredible, incredible sound system, he played incredible music.

His crew, Cocar Rock, Timmy Tim Clark.

Say, Coclar Rock was one of the first MC two as well.

When I went to go see them, Coca Rock was a DJ. So I don't understand where that comes from. So if I'm seeing, if we jack the word, I'm seeing from the masses, and it's defined as a human being who talks rhythmically on the beat of music. Wasn't nobody doing that back then? We all had echo chambers. HRK had the best echochamber. We were just blabbing out whatever, but serious speaking to the beat of music. Maybe I'm going crazy. I didn't see that yet. It had it

Very humble.

I just had the ball even showed, because I don't think people would understand what he means by picking up the tone arm, the DJ wasn't mixing, blending and bringing it on beat. They were literally picking up the record and putting it on the record like.

Beat was crashing into the right. They weren't trying to make it sound smooth.

They were just bringing it close enough by just bringing it up and down, bringing it, just dropping the needle on the record to switch the record.

I'm going to remonstrate that when I get up there, you know. So for me, like last summer, I sit back, I watch all the press that comes out hYP Hop fifty. You know, first of all, they shot it on the Bronx for years and years and years. Oh this place has all the fires, the political upheaval, cops taking payoffs. You know, the Bronx is fucked up, and all of a sudden, now the Bronx is the blomb now and it's this, that, that that, and now it's mainstream. You know.

Bottle of water.

We need we need to get this ship right now because we're trending, because after that it goes into history history books incomplete or incorrect. And this is why I find it critically necessary that I do as much speaking and I'm only one of four, what I want to do as much speaking as possible because Norwy, you need to know, because you're an expert in your field. You

You said one of the four, who's the other three?

Quirk bam botta breakout flash? The four of us the ship ain't just one person at one time frame. This is a combination of a lot of things. I got a bullet point thinking, Man, I'm gonna go all now, I'm a fucking geek. Imma, I gotta I gotta do this. Like you know, we need to to congratulate the breakdances, to congratulate the like the producers. Why the fuck are we not talking about to producers? Because I'm telling you

Going, right.

Somebody got a say in the room and put that bitch together, yep, And that is the producer. Why aren't we talking about these people? Premiere Dre Oh shit, I gotta fucking lift Pete Pete Rock Can I missed exactly? Timberlind like exactly? We have to Kanye West. Let's talk them about that because the nine times out of ten, if you would have asked a rapper with his truncation with a sampling, what is equeuing? We don't know that ship right, Oh, thank you so much. They don't want

I said, who fucking maybag is that?

No?

You looked at me and said, hey, man, so let me ask you a question.

I was clear something you mentioned Marty Mark what I think? What what he said and will is that he recreated with flash. He was one of the first producers or the first producer to recreate on record.

Yeah, on record, that could be possibly true because it was Cold Child and Water Brothers was probably one of the first. But then it was Death Chair two. You know, it's it's up for debate, but the insertion of music inside of a new production and the human beings speaking on it. There were three major labels that was pretty much doing that, and that was Cole Chilling, Cole Chilling, Warner Brothers. Marley mar was and he was a producer for all the artists, but Big Daddy Kane and bis

And it just went from there, and it was Uptown.

Records, bad Boy Records, and it goes on and on and on and on and on. So this thing has so much of a story of substance. And when I look at the press that's happening, I'm like, who is controlling the narrative of the press, because they're leaving out so many things?

But it isn't. I'm sorry, but this is kind of like the NBA, Like like when you look at the NBA right now, right the NBA and anybody playing in the NBA, I got so many friends, so many people who have my phone numbers, so.

Do not call me.

Not talking about you particularly, but the NBA kind of seems soft right now, right And it's like like and and when you compare it to the nineties, right and it's like if you don't have these old clips.

Of the nineties.

These people don't understand that the NBA was like playing right as out. It was like right as a boy, and now it's like playing in fucking Barbie Land.

You know what I'm saying, like like Disney learned.

I'm sorry, Like.

People, please don't hit me. I don't mean it like that. But what I'm trying to say is, isn't it isn't it? Isn't it? Isn't it?

Like when you see these young kids, right, these young kids they twenty they they are twenty five and under, and they would actually sit there and be like, Okay, I'm gonna go get to the New Jordan's. But they're making money through hip hop. Yes, they're making money through hip hop, but there would go and they don't. They haven't seen Michael Jordan play or Doctor Dre But why wouldn't they go? And yeah, yeah, why wouldn't they do their research if they're making money through hip hop?

That's my biggest thing.

Okay, But this new generation is like I think you said it earlier, like like you said, the people.

Need to know and that's what they need to want to know. That's the biggest problem too. But you gotta teach them to know, like you have to drop the science to these babies and say this is what it is, this is what it is. Now go look at go

And who did it?

Some people lost their lives, some people ain't here no more. That helped make this ship what this ship is. And this is why I find it really important. I think the DJ is extremely important because there was a time before the game change. Record companies like Death Jam and all the other labels shoots to bring me white labels one o'clock in the morning, knocking on my door saying this shit is fresh off the fucking prints. We need you to tell us what this record is. Twing we DJs.

You was the influence, said before influence, it was aflu.

And so all this constitutes the building blocks of why this thing is still here. Why don't we do this step by step by step by step by step.

It's just.

Just boggles my mind. Let's continue the mixtape. The mixtape. Okay, wait, wait wait.

I love how you control on an interview, like.

Not get it to the mix tape. I like that. I like that. I think that. I'm sorry, you know, I'm just really crazy comfortable here.

What is the first term? First time you heard that term mixtape? And was it because it was mixes on the tape because I actually got an album on the tape cassette. There were two there were two versions of mixed. There were two DJs that would record this shows when we was playing back then, me and Bam Bam, and.

That's what we called it because a DJ was mixing on tape. There's two types of tapes.

The Bam always have beats is one point.

He never had beats. I'm gonna talk about Bam in the mix mixtapes. Two types of mixtapes.

There's the tape. There's the one. There's the one.

You pop in while we're performing and the whole group is, you know, doing anything. The DJ is the rapper. That is the customized tape. Let's talk about the customized tape. I would get called to do customized tapes for the.

Drug dealers, the street vendors, the.

Street, the street. My client teller was the street farmaceutical people and they lived in the hall in the Halem and the Bronx, and this.

Is what they would ask me. They said.

I would say to them, just give me two souls that you like. That would give me an idea of what they like, and I would build around that. I said, so, well, how long do you want this cassette tape to be? If they said sixty, I say, here's my price, a dollar a minute, so and I would look at the distreet pharmaceutical person and say that's what it would course they said, so what they says, all I want you

They're wrong or we got that shit from Grand Master.

And I would and I would say, all right, what you want sixty ninety one twenty Some would say ninety.

I say ninety.

Dollars one twenty one hundred and twenty. Some wanted a real to real and it'd be sixty minutes or one side and you reverse it and that you recorded, and that was two hundred dollars. So this is the common kind of money I was making. When I wasn't making money doing the parties. I actually made more money do doing the tapes than I was doing the parties. So now a mixtape, I think now, correct me if I'm wrong. It's like the pre album. It's like an artist that's not signed what mix tape even.

Signed today today out of their label Big Safe today, but finished with you.

Yeah, I'm not trying. I'm just trying to because I don't really know what it what it became.

Today exactly, say today savent finish with you?

What you think?

I'm thinking it's artists that are so dope but they're not signs yet and they can make money without the label.

This is what I'm thinking.

But it's it's artists that are signed as well doing street albums.

But is it both?

Is he either or it's both? It's both, Yes, both both.

It's both because even artists like Faustis has a mixtape and he sampled a bunch of beats, but he also actually paid for the samples, you know what I'm saying. So the fact is it's not an actual album, so it doesn't go on sound scan as an album, but it does, I guess because they still got to pay the producers, and ultimately.

If you ask a newer generation what a mixtape is, they just think of an artist doing a street yes, street a street album.

So it's not just so.

It could be a street album that's signed to a label, or a street album that's not signed to a label, and it could be an incredibly dope artist that's not signed to a label. Right, And it's usually using beats that they're not paying for. Usually that's what it is. That's really, that's what really is what the mixtape became.

They're taking instrumentals, they're taking whatever, and they're spitting over whatever they want and not clearing any of these beats.

Okay, so okay, then I want to ask you, how does the mixtape today quantify the sales? How do you know what it sold?

Or is it more like we called it an audio flyer or.

The first audio DJ drama.

That's how let changed after you got everything with Internet from the mixed ere I started doing mixtapes on cassettes, then on CDs. I didn't like as much, but I did it. But once everything went Internet, that to me changed what it meant. A mixtape meant the culture. Mixtapes to me ended.

Because even even like let's say fifty he kind of like ushered in the artist mixtape, he.

Was still putting them on CD dipset as well, and say so that's.

That culture of physical Once that physical culture ended.

I feel like kind of like the mixtape era ended in a sense, people still put stuff on streaming said this.

Is my mixtape album all But I.

Think at first when it got to the fifty dipset era, I think that that they were the first time that it wasn't hosted by DJ right, or that was hosted by DJ yeah.

Most of the yeah, yeah exactly.

Still a lot of those those mixtape albums incorporated the DJ putting it together and and and doing like you know, drops Ford and hosting it.

Okay, got it, got it, got it? So okay, I understand. So executives got the record labels, man basically get some love to man. Yeah, all of them. There's some fund up people that there is there, there there is by me, I'm gonna go with a few that I know. Pretty cool, that's right, And I'm sure you share the fucked up when as I called him to you, Sylvia wrong, Electra the wrong. She drew as album as well, yeah, Russell Simmons and Leo Cohen Depth.

Jam specifically up even though either my definitely.

Have no more flash, right, you know what I'm talking about earlier Onstable here, Yeah, yeah, historical yes, Tom Silvanan and Monica Lynch, Tommy Boy Record Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't know that one. Okay, Okay, Steve Stout r c A Records, I think what a J jay Z's first record label, Sleeping Bag Records. Will sockle Off Okay, yeah, wait, hell his name is so off SoC st Yeah, Steve uh will will sockle Off Right, leave that alone, Okay. Sylvia Robinson, Sugar.

You Records, your Sugar Hell Records, you had a second ago, Steve Riston, Yeah, Aaron Fukes, Tough City Records, Fred Bounet, Select Records Back.

So there's a few, but there's so many more. And to the people that's watching and listening, like, if I do not say your label, you know or what you've done, it would take me like five years to say all the names, so please excuse me. So in the interest of time, I had to put together a short list of.

That because we could have easily added and easy with Ruthless Records, or yes with two life with absolutely Skywalker Records and a J Prince will.

Wrap a lot records right exactly. So for me, this thing has like, you know, I haven't been on the train in fifty years, but if I were to get on the local, not to express the local, every stop is something, Every stop is something, Every stop is something. Every there's something to talk about until you get to hear that's it really really important. Man.

Let me ask you flash. Aliens come down.

They come down, Aliens from a different planet, a different planet. They hire as a motherfucker right. They high, They on alien shit, they on alien ship. They come to you, flash, they flash. We need one record to describe hip hop, one record to describe this fifty years of hip hop, this fifty one years of hip hop. They don't want one record? Nah no, this is his question, brother Dominicans,

He just an alien. One record.

Nor can we go to no get too alien? Say you know what, go ahead, you want to you top three? It's just too to its two records. I think o that and this is that that that are the absolute top. If you were to say these records help start a movement, would be Coherks discovery of Apache and my discovery. I'll take me to the money grap by Bob James, one A, one B.

And look for the Remember who we're talking to. Some people that don't even understand when you say discovery of that record what that meant. Okay, so record shopping digging, by the way, can I stop me for my second?

Let me just tell you something, Just show me she have a DJ friend and y'all are on the road.

If you ever want to do something cool for your DJ.

Friend, find a record store.

It's like leaving a gamber at a casino.

I can take.

Anywhere in the world, and I can leave him at a record store and a casino and I could go out for six hours. No one would never know what's mission.

So if you ever know to any DJ, listen, any artist, anybody you've had a DJ friend, go overseas or go somewhere you can bring him to a to reconstr herm and her or her all they you know this ship is real out right now?

You know what I'm saying.

You know what I mean?

If you don't want to fend nobody. Everybody can use every bathroom.

But if you want him to a DJ friend, you bring him to a record store and they will enjoy the ship out of the store. By the way, these records don't have to speak at English.

Don't matter.

These records don't have to be hip hop.

You prefer they could be harmor. But DJs are so crazy they can listen and be like, oh, I'm taking this.

I'm just telling you DJ's and producers, that's a treat.

I'm sorry. I gave you out a tea cold for.

So record shopping.

Record shopping.

I'm in my teens.

During the week I have to do my chores and do my homework. Uh, do school work. On the weekend, I'm getting up about eight o'clock in the morning, getting dressed, washing my ass. I am going record shopping. I'm going to which I think used to Will the godfather of eclectic records was Downstairs Records, Nick and Barry. Okay, in the village, and what street was at all thirty Street,

You have VIP before VIP. I respect it.

Go ahead. We in there all day in the turntable. I'm in there looking in the cup one. I'm holding the record up in the air because you could see the break on the record, and how you could see this the area of the composition has a bright spot, so that tells you that the most of the band members are not playing. The figures not playing in that area. I would find that pop record, put it on. All I needed was four bars. I'm buying two copies of that.

Like there was a storm who was just thirty fourth Street and eighth.

AVEU called disco mad and this motherfuckers this store must have been the size of a Walmart. So you just in there, just searching. And I would go to the pop session in the rock all of them, and I would look at the cover. That's what spoke to you first, That would speak to me first. And I remember this one particular one was I was in a rock session. The fucking album said toys in the attic. I'm like, who the fuck wants to put their toys in the attic?

But that shit was talking to me.

And Disco Matt no privileges. Once you break the street wrap, you buy it. If there's nothing on it, you fucking stuck with it. You gotta go to the cash register and pay for some I call it a.

Stiff as a scram. Joe still call it.

And I went over to the turntable and I played most of the records whack whack, whack, whack, whack whack.

Then the band put the.

Bam boom bampoo, put the drum break in a front of that ship.

I'm like, oh my god.

This group was new then, Columbia Records, didn't nobody know much of who it was, and they had this they had a really real weird name, arrow Smith, and the cut on it. I would have missed it because that end of the cut prior got the man, this this nasty, fucked up guitar piece. But I stuck with it and I let it play, and then it got quiet onto the next section. I was like, oh my god, I'm taking two of those. But there are times when I look at the album cup and the fucking shit was

So this is what I did.

I took the two copies of the Stiffs that I'm stuck with, and I soaked them in the bathtub, and I soaked the heat and the bathtub too, until the label came up. And then I switched them. So now follow so when that DJ would come there seeing what that ship was, and I got to tell you years later, we all at they said, flash, we cleaned our house, cook the food, let the fucking album play, and the break was never there. We had a way of keeping our secrets. But today, ah, you know, I I there

But we had to have a way.

I used to mark the record with magic marcle or scrape the label out and call it. If the ship was called fucking Fiji, I'll call the shit can C A N. So now the motherfucker's going looking for a record called can. But we had to have secrets. We had to to keep our fans. And that's what record shop was to me. And I might record shop from nine in the morning till ten o'clock at night, and I may go to a record shop and find one and twenty one copy in the fucking store. I'm like,

And this is their version of having an exclusive ry, saying they're hiding the record so the other DJ's camp couldn't see right and get that record exactly, so that.

Drum beat to continue that drum beat, norway, I had to continue it. But I had that shit covered because I didn't know who was in the building, and I wanted my fans to stay with me, so I wanted all my heat to stay with me. Herk was always up high, bam Barda had goons, breakout was way up in the north, so everybody was just protecting their own shit.

But let me ask you because what you're saying, and you're describing right there, is you're describing a DJ like being a producer.

Right.

That's actually kind this is kind of a producer. So it's kind of like to say, if you do it the way that you're describing.

Which is the wrong way, louse. You don't play a turntable that way. I came up with the wrong way because your theory is the wrong way.

That But what you're saying is basically, if you're a DJ, you're an automatic producer. But if you're a producer, doesn't automatically make you a DJ.

Right, But I'll tell you this much, and we're gonna go We're gonna go back to the producers. If they were fifty producers on the first batch that went out in the eighties, forty eight of them with DJs that understood the law.

Of a seamless loop.

So from Dre to Pete Rock to Premiere to Battlecat you know, to Christ the Glove tailor, all of them they were DJs.

So they knew how one.

To make a seamless loop, which I'm going to show you what that is over there. Use it and the sampler inserted at New Kicks Snaars make that shit sound incredible. So the rapid could come in and say what you can say that, he'll go leave, and then it's the producer and that track and making that track as fat as possible. That's what the majority of the DJs are

You said that's the first beat machine in hip hop?

Yeah?

Yeah, what is that?

Yes? The big box? Okay, it's called the beat box B box.

I always thought Dougie Fresh was the B box c B.

Doug You're gonna talk right after. We're gonna talk later on today too okay, so nor Red, this was my secret weapon. Evy DJ back then had turntables. Right now, there was this guy uh Dame escapes me. He lived in a Jackson Projects and I would hear this machine being played out the window. I made it a point to keep going back there, keep going back there, till finally I met this guy and I asked.

Him what was it that he was playing?

He was playing this. He was a drummer, but when he were practice, he would practice with this. I said to myself, if I can learn how to play this, just basic, I could come off the turntables and jump on this. So ray Challa, I'll manage. At that time said we're gonna put that on the Flyer. Secret weapon, the beat box. The Furious came up with the saw. It was a party and his own me I was on this sand and people.

So l.

So this became a secret weapon. And this got us more more fans. Years when by later and they were these super people. I called them this Markey rest in Peace, Dougie Fresh that decided to replicate the sounds of a drum with their mouths, and they made huge records off of this. But this is this box that I found and I called it the beat box. Wow.

So I'm gonna just mess around a little bit.

Wow, so pretty much. And Meldon the Boys wrote a song on it. So now see knowing these are the kind of things that I'm talking about, and I appreciate you. First, you will eat Huh. That's the first you can say the person first drum, drum machine and hip hop period credecessor for yeah, the cast cast didn't even have a C yet.

It wasn't even see you on cast.

It wasn't around yet.

You know, this is why I found it critically important to come here. And I appreciate the EFN and and and nor to allow me to expound, expound on this. Appreciate you because I'm dragging you guys in and out of the rabbit hole we started. Okay, so so.

This song right here some of nineteen seventies, when it was me try to snap here.

At the house Parkings in my mom's house or my bucker's house, the backside used to move more and his break still going, still going now, I thought back then, and I was twelve or thirteen, old records have the break like that, But when they didn't, that's when I became very angry and that's when I had to come up with this thing where I extended to break. So now all, let's I'm gonna move through a couple of things here. I'm gonna try to think within the five

Hold on.

That was all the genius of the producer to put this in the computer and a sampler and the incredible rhymes of nas.

Let's continue on.

And some of these records were popped. Were rocking with Jason and Blues, were funking with disco, they were R n B.

You know.

So when people ask me know where to do a set, I played pop rock, They're like, what the no, what the fuck are you doing. I'm saying, I'm playing a hip hop set. I'm playing what I know.

This song here has has the worst name in the even in the world. Uh Sweet green Fields, Shields and Cross. The producer that did Cliff one. The producer that took Cliff one, the producer.

That followed me.

Now that's the black part.

So all the producer did is take to see this loop theory that falls under the quick mix theory and made big records. Why doesn't the press talk about this? But it was in front of me. I would keep it beat steady, those you can still do it. Let's gettue on. Oh, thank you, thank you. Let's shit. Let's go here. Uh m hm, Let's go a little further. Let's go a little fir Let's go a little first, Let's go a little check the Ryan.

So much, so much.

If Piggy was in front of me so much, it's crazy. He's showing you the where he started and how that translated in the production. This one's quite special. H This recon probably would have been double leg that was sold a copy until it's incredible. Rapper put his voice on this feat one of my favorite freaky mules.

Y're going, it's like it's where.

So that's wh just playing this produced this ship out.

If it's not damn record right, mel hold my god up. Let's play some disco. Let's play some disco. Let's play some disco. Let's play from disco. Let's play some disco. Let's play some disco.

But the motherfucking producers, he said to yourself, let me let me slow this down. And these are the things are Presice not talking about. Why not jazz heard Albert don't care about this racket? Nobody? Yes, crazy, I watched the press last last summer. I'm like, how on earth, how on earth could he let stuff like this goes by? I'm sure Bam got a story. I'm sure Breakout got a story. I'm sure her got a story.

So now sure should I wait?

For now?

We canna keep talking. Okay, let's get geek. I'm gonna take your guys down a rabbit hole. Let's go, let's go over to the to the easel.

Yeah, okay, so.

Guys.

This took much thinking because the way DJ's playing music the right way was heavy on the tone R. But in order for me to e to connect the short runway, I needed a quicker way to do this. This took me about two and a half years to put this formula together because I kept saying to myself, the non disco DJs I heav you on a tone are to disco DJs to heavy on the tone. Are I have to stay heavy on the tone ar And it turned out that I couldn't right. And here's my formula. It's

About fifteen sixteen.

And there are DJs that make incredible sounds with this.

But I'm not talking about the sound. I'm talking about the mechanics, the reason why you do it. And here's the math. Guys.

Four bars four.

Way equals six counterclockwise revolutions equals full yeah, loop extraction. And I'm gonna do this on the turn tables in a little while, but I'm gonna show you to be deep in a rabbit hole right now. Guys, final one. Any watch outs I can see clockwise? Thank you.

My drawing is fucked up. I'm not good like that DJ mixer. I'll this run table.

This one is going counterclockwise counter and is this without you queuing it in headphones? Is this why you can?

But I didn't.

I didn't figure that out until later. You could, But you're absolutely correct counterclockwise, so four bars forwards, it's equal to six counter clockwise revs r evs. This way of DJing, the mechanics.

Of this has not changed them fifty years.

That's not.

I said something on the internet many years ago. I'll put up ten grand for anybody that can do this without using my mechanics. Not the machine, not a computer. I'm talking about human.

Beings like you and me.

Let's see still waiting, Hey, do you want to do this?

Man? So, God is wonderful. I've been able to Nori. I'm trying to figure out what's going when you Okay, If then I did this when I was sixteen, I'll be sixty seven in the week and a half. God is absolutely wonderful.

Bring bring cheering for Scram Jones. Is bring Scram Johnson.

Because I want to get into the music.

But before we get into that, we're somewhere.

You played overseas that you was just like wow, that you was shocked that you went to Brazil.

Brazil, ninety thousand people she but there were a few that I played sixty thousand. On the average, I played twenty five thousand, fifteen thousand. Now light work, I don't. I don't do.

I'm like, you put them over there by on that side, by bad, yeah, over there on that side, yeah yeah, by my bad.

Oh, come on, you're supposed to be holding the chair, not Jamie Jesus.

Yeah, riggers, ramming, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I called us do super fingers. The fu's Graham Jones.

You just want to shine out of here, bro.

So you said Brazil is ninety thousand people. Get the ship out of me. What was really cool about it?

It's like.

The big E d M DJs. They do that ship in the regular So when I first okay, got into playing with them on the lineup, I remember my my agents said, I'm gonna put you on the lineup. That's a little different from what you used to do in the clubs, you know. And the whole ship, you know, it's this E d M DJ So I'm like, what does that mean? Electronic dance music. I'm cocky as a motherfucker, you know. I'm even the office, the whole ship. We drive to the to the to the thing for the

I'm like, oh m hm, I I'm going.

Into laptop e hip hop paray. I'm gonna flip this motherfucker upside down and yep, Apache take me to the Mardi Gras.

Weren't that bitch.

Down.

From that point on, I said to myself, this is what I want to do on this level.

I got to insert hip hop and every anti hip hop circuit possible so they know what we fucking DJs can do.

To see.

Ninety thousand people go like this, yes, stupid that energy Mine Woggley And then I talked to some of these idiom fans. It says.

We come from nineties hip hop.

Yep.

I'm like, well, he says, yeah, we come from eighties and nineties hip hop. But we just got introduced to this is where we are.

So when I'm playing these joints, motherfucker's just reacting. I'm like, let's go hard, let's go apatche, just go this and that that flip the whole room upside down. Wonderful, look, man, wonderful. Look what's going on with the scram Scoop? So good to see your baby.

Because when scramplay DM, he takes ecstasy.

I guess you got it. You don't have that experience. You don't, I'll just ask, you know. That's what talk about. I'm straight sober when I play because I got I'm seeing things go reverse fort reverse forward four six six four four six, the inversion. I gotta be really sober when I do it, you know. But you know, you know, out of all of this, I love the idea of watching my mechanics and watched people like Scram play.

Not the name Flash right? Was you a comic book guy?

No?

I got Flash on Flash Gordon.

No.

I lived nine twenty seven Fox Street in the Bronx and then down the block. One of my best friends was named Gordon. Now what I did do is I ran fast. I ran fast, so Gordon named me Flash. And then three years later I moved my UH set and I got down with a gentleman by the name of Me and Jean, and it was it was on Boston Road where I started doing my parties at a place called the Black.

Door, right, And.

I want to say seventy two, seventy three, seventy four, I can't remember exactly.

One of the most notorious gangsters.

Like, when we did our parties, we knew our motherfuckers is gonna try to pluck it up, so we had security. Some people were allowed to carry the gun, some weren't. Joe Kid was allowed to carry the gun. We knew he wasn't gonna pop off for nobody. He was kind of just watching my back him in a castanovs, right. So yeah, they were security. They were my security, you know, along with the Boston Road Boston roll crew. And it was New Year's seven. I'm gonna say seventy three, let

Now I'm going.

Master, grand Master flash.

Master, rand Master, rand Master Flash.

And I got used to it, and did Rach Hanner put it on the flyers grand Master Flash and the beat box, you know, and then our crowd just got bigger and bigger and bigger, you know.

And now you, you and Grandmaster Cast ever had anything because of the grand Master's.

I mean.

Grand Master Cast was called something else before that original grand Master. You know, I have, I mean me and it.

We love each other, we ain't be for with each other, right, But.

So how did you feel like because you had to use the first grand Master, then he was going about a different name and then he came up with grand Master.

I mean, we we grew up together. I didn't. I didn't have no problem with it. You know, It's just that I learned quickly because I was an idiot when I signed to sugar Hill. When I got older, it's like anything you do copyrighted trademarket because what happened to me in the record business. So I you know, if you're going to use it, if you're gonna use grand Master, I'm gonna pop up first.

So there are a few people that want to call himself.

Grand Master, but they're saying Joseph Sadler is the owner of the title.

Joseph Sadler's me.

You know, you learned. You learn when you get burned, you learn. And it was a time when I was ignorant. I'm dumb, So you get smart after a while and you pick a shit out, you know what I mean?

How competitive were were you guys, the different crews back then?

You know something, we didn't really battle with each other too much. You know now that you know hindsight is this. We were like four corporations. Breakout had the North, Cork had the West, I had the East, Bam had Bronx River. Whenever I wasn't playing, I go see herk or I'd go see Bam, I go see Breakout. Me and Breakout never played together. I think that bad or HERK played together, but I never played with HERK. Me and band played together,

Nuts.

You go into a wrong area, you might not make it out of there. So and I'm talking about the black space of Black Pearls, Savage Skulls, seven, Immortal Freeze Donation, because that's what right now. Now we're gonna go into Bam so Bam shopping for records having the most beats Numero Uno Bam had more beats. If you played a patche he had four different versions. If you played the bells, he had six different versions. He had records like where did you get that from? Kind of records. You couldn't

If I were to.

Do a short blurb on Bam, King of the Beats, absolutely and he's doing that calmed down this gang violent shit. And I think, personally, in my opinion, if he didn't do that, they wouldn't have been too many block parties because their motherfuckers would have been up in there shooting, stabbing the whole shit. So a lot of them groups he turned them around, and then these groups became security for a lot of us, like a lot of the

He was big on that.

Uh HERK if I do a short blurb on him. He had a sound system that we all wanted. He could play some of these old old house party records on his sound system, and that ship was absolutely amazing.

His ship was.

In incredible sounding. His record collection was also pretty decent. The technical aspect, me and him, we go back with that, back and forth with that. I say me, he say him, wait it again for part, the technical part or who did one on the ones and the whole ship and how it works out? You know, his thing it's called America around minus is called the quick Mixedterey, you know. And I love the ground he walks on. You know.

I'm saying, what's up, old man?

He said, Yo, I'm cool, old man, I says, Man, lots of wars, lots of we went through, you know.

He looks at me. I look at him.

I said, I ain't fight no fucking more. He said, I ain't fight no more either. Man. We're too old for that shit.

You know what I'm saying.

But now it's a time. Yeah, yeah, Cause me and Heck we hurt. We battle about who did what and what did who?

Right?

You know so me.

I think these years now this year especially Nori is show and tell no more quiet, holding it, marking it, you know, and hiding what it is. It's time for Hirk's crew to talk. It's time for a Breakour's crew to talk. It's time for band like it should be. And quite frankly, I would love it if all of us can sit down at one table. This will be the biggest This would be the biggest story and hip hop ever, just sit down, have it and tell stories. How was it at your mom and dad's house and

All right, So it's four y'all to get together. And then y'all say we want to add one MC.

Why you gotta fuck with me regard actually give you if I want to have one MC, one wrapper one in this.

Y'all falling one rapper at Eddy ever in time, any area in time. I'm getting the about it any aer in time, won man, It's on you, everyone say flash just you will to pick the m C.

Every MC want to be there too, Okay, m HM one one. I'm not Yeah, that was warned about your father.

Want to he said, are you gonna ask.

Getting questions? One?

I want see join y'all at dinner and talk some ship.

It's up to you not to one one Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get you too.

Before if you were still here, I would say cowboy que cowboy yeah makes a noise, fag.

Don't forget the fourth the blurb for the fourth. But you said body he said, hrk yourself.

Yeah, and breakout?

Did you say the blurb for him? What you would say about him? All?

Breakout because he's like, out of everyone that you name, he's like the.

Least known of right.

That's that's why I wanted.

Breakout first DJ to have a female MC shot Rock up the shot Rock Shot Rock, you know, Like now, I.

I felt so sorry for us because this is the male dominated that.

Was grew up on my back down right now, absolutely connected, I'm going back get it. She was only the MC that and she had to contend with all of us. You know, So DJ Breakout in the four plus one, so break your Shot Rock has shot Rock sound system. It wasn't pretty like herks, but that ship was loud like hurks and if I could speak scientifically, his base bottoms will reverse. The wolf was put in reverse and he threw the hole in the back. They re poored

We love hearing it now, White lines how much cocaine was in that studio session.

This guy, let me be totally honest with you.

By that time, by the way, we was looking at the lyrics coming here.

I don't write lyrics, okay, So like we were probably the tightest unit in the streets, mean and five, you know, we just go being easy, Mike. Then when we got into the record situation and I realized that we weren't weren't in a great situation. I was the first one that wanted to leave. Uh, but it didn't happen that way. So from the six of us, three went with me to Electra and three pretty much stayed back. That record

Wow, I'm not gonna lie.

Whenever I met a like a like a like a white industry party and that record, come on, you know, I.

Know the white people, but I know it's a great Millie is a great rid. But by that time we had split, you know, and yeah, that was his record.

You found out sample of the Cavern.

Of course I did right your record because people credit that to the some say reality rap. Right, so people say that's the first song that details reality rap.

And then some people.

Outright say that that is the first message because white message was first. Yeah, but that's broken glass. Everybo thea talking about getting coked. That's a message I ain't gonna live man, white. And we thought they were subtle until this morning we listened to the white White.

Dig I'm like, Diego, you know, it's record better than me. But I come to find out Diego's.

He's he's reading the words and I'm like, damn, these words are pretty foul.

Like a great writer, tell me split by till me split, and uh they continued on, and we continued on with an electro pretty much.

Sylvia Rome wasn't there yet all Sylvia Rome was there.

She's not.

She wasn't in a powerful position.

And she said now and she deserves every bit of what she did because she was always the first one to say, let's work it out.

She didn't she she didn't really Sylvia.

It wasn't really business business talking was more like friendship, like what does you what you want to do?

How can we make it work? Could we tweak it a little bit?

You know? She had like a heart. That's how I remember m Sylvia Sylvia Rome.

And how about the masters? Did you guys go back and get your masters?

Like everyone?

No?

Whoa so yeah?

I said no. That got a little messy with the record label and the group. Yeah, you know, because after a while we we broke up. We all went out in separate ways. I went on and did what I had to do, but then we got back together to figure out how we could.

Make this happen.

Because New World now, shit could be played on things like Spotify and all this. It's a new all these new lanes and the whole ship. So we had to get together and figure out how we could. So we got a company who handles that right now, so we get royalties coming in, you know, I get a couple of checks now finally, So it's it's not bad. I do think if I had understood the business back then, things would have been financially much better now.

But you live and you learn.

You know, there's some things, you know a lot of things. I'm perfect at that type ship contract with illegal and this and that that that didn't have a clue about that.

But now our ship plays, we get paid.

And Rick James was the first person to tell you because this like roomors like even a prince like not wanting to deal with artists who didn't own their masters that, yeah.

He didn't want to deal with artists like not not not to with it, like he didn't want to nas.

It's the famous story like we act nas like what is the person that turned you down? And now I said, one time he asked Prince to get on the record, and Prince just asked him, do you own your master's and then Nas was like no, and he was just like, yeah, well get back to me.

When you own you probably you probably he knew what the game was like. And this is back then Prince ben dead like ye, Like.

He said something like I don't want to put the like the executives of the I don't want to put their kids through college.

I'll put yours. That's hard, that's hard, that's hard, you know what I mean.

I think of how young Prince was and think.

About how much he must have like NOAs my brother, think how much he must have fucked Nas up. But you know, you know, you don't expect that, like you can't do a record with me? Yeah, do you own your own master's you know what I mean? Like that feels it's probably like the smartest answer you could probably you know, answer with So.

WHOA I didn't know about I didn't know that about prin don't know that about Rick James.

Because like Rick telling you, like yo, you're schooling you about publishing? Was that like like that type of insensative I knew I was in trouble after I talked to Rick. Business wise, I knew cocaine and all that. Rick still knew his ship.

I knew we was in deep ship. We know, uh learning the business because we learned the business too late. Wow, we was really young. So but I'll say this again, with the work that I put into this, that's why I say birthday, I don't give a fuck about it my death day. What am I going to be behind for you younger people?

Yeah, because man, I'm gonna just tell you man like you are, like, I'm gonna I'm gonna read a message and I'm gonna y'all tell.

Me and I want to talk about some people.

Many you gotta return whatever you you said something up over there too. Yeah, get me to do some Get me do the analog version.

This is someone who says Grandmaster Flash to not hear his name mentioned in the Crazy Legs with disrespect. F y I Kirk cannot dj as we do today, he cannot blend records. Flash invented turntable lism as we know it today. There's no debating this. Flash invented the slip matt, which required a slip matt and the art of juggling a record to seamlessly extend a break, which allowed a rapper to wrap.

Cowboy was the.

First one to do it Kirk and Bambarda did it like Jamaican's.

I don't know if that was I don't know if that was like a shot.

Yeah, hold on, I was born in the Bronx and did it like Jamaicans did. They just chucked the records and breaks on without blended. Herk refused to learn how to juggle flash style and has invented flash to advised Flash to this day, Flash can tell you the story himself. You need to interview him. He's the godfather of hip hop. Herk was the godfather of hip hop party. Bambada had the streets, big Big, I got you, I.

Got I got said, I don't know what they took a shot?

Yea, what did you?

What do you think about?

The hell?

On?

Who?

Well?

Just let many.

Okay, y okay, okay, lady. The enemy, that's the enemy. It come to the turntable wants to cut me off. So when you first bought the turntable, it comes with this.

And I'm gonna tell you, ladies and gentlemen, okay, Mike move man.

I do not to this day, fifty two years later, I don't understand what the purpose of this survey, because, like I told you earlier in the interview. The disco DJ had a long runway I roll with it was really short. So when I moved the microphone closer to him, guys, So when I put the record, I'm saying to myself, I gotta get to the beat quicker and connect the duplicate records quicker to make the seamless loop when I put the needle down, because this is the right way,

The cartridge.

Contriin comes in two classifications, ceramic and magnetic. The ceramic culture came out in the sixties the seventies, but it didn't translate well over records that had heavy bottom. So here comes to the magnetic cartridge. Then I studied the needle. The needle was called the stylist. Stylist comes in two classifications. There's the elliptical. Now this is the groove. The elliptical needles sat in the groove halfway because when I tried to spin it back, it kept spinning out of the groove.

Like a nail.

So when that sat in the groove, and I went back and stayed in the groove. Although the elyptical needle sound better, the conical needles sound like shit, but it stayed inside of the groove. Needle figured out turntable. I went in the backyard, took as many turntables out of this brown Blox stereos that was in the backyard. Maga the box Fisher price seen if One day I was coming home from the school, there was a store and

Let me, that's case saying.

Felt. I remember member felt because in grade school we used to cut out letters and if you cut out letters looking really good, you get five stars. You'll be going home.

Mommy would like love you open that up. So felt, it's limb, pray limb.

This became the enemy. Well, mom wasn't looking. No before Mom, I ran to the material store because I used to watch the ball make clothes. I'm going through the.

Aisles polyester, rayon, cotton, silk.

Felt. I bought two pieces felt that was the size of two albums and it was very very length the felt. So when Mom was looking, I did. I took this spray starch and I sprayed it on what I called the wafer, and I called it a way for ladies and gentlemen. It's because during the Easter, Mom used to get us shark and take us to the neighborhood church. And I don't know if you guys know about this. What during the easy to give you this to a white wafer thing to eat I called it a wafer.

When I put the wafer on top of the platter and I put the record on top of the wafer, there still was a degree of resistance because I could feel it. My sisters on my mom used to make these chocolate chip cookies on this type of paper.

I cut out the circle amount of it, and then I put I put the wax paper on this on the platter, and I put the wafer on the wax paper, and I put the record on the wafer, and now no resistance. When I went counter clockwise, problem solved.

How long is that presence?

Give me a second four block or with six counterclockwise. This is where I got stuck. And this is where I almost walked away. When I walked away, for about two or three weeks, I got stuck. Why is it the vinyl going four bars? Let's take good times? Four bars? Do do do do do, don't do doom doom doom do do do do do do do do four bars. Statistically, it takes the brain four bars to understand a new song. So for me, the problem for me was I had to.

Play the songs the wrong way. So what I did was, first things first, I put crayon on.

The mark because this break happens to be on the top. So now we're gonna do this with one record first, four boss first, and we're gonna count four bars one, two, three and four right now, four boss forward? Why is it if I bring it back four bars? Why might wrong place? Four bosses went by? It passed the line four four times, and this.

Is what stoped me, goes Ram, you wear your white hand wall loom.

Don't don't as the.

Going I wear four moss, Like, why didn't I go fit the best? Why?

Why it's not really a clear instagram?

Don't answer that with the speed. No it doesn't. That's to me. That's what I'm thinking.

Speed if necessarily amount of it?

Answer, but she was choo, I don't know what he did guns right? Go on?

Okay, it's because the average you were cloth the average seed all that album best falls inside fins thirty three.

And a third.

Because of forty five that will.

Be different than.

Say eight the same year season two more, but I have to re arrive on the top of the break, and I'm.

Gonna show you how it works. And the Bird of the Quick three weeks to feel three, three weeks I walked away. I was mad at the fall four pause four with why can't I go? Four bars back? And I'm in the wrong place.

I got a question.

So any any speed be right? Eddie speed me four to six, four to six, forty six, any b any speed forty five, thirty three, sixteen, she could be a that could be whatever right, I'm gonna show you. Member, man, hell but I'm kind of seeing four. Okay, I'm gonna show you right now, let's do. Let's go through it, man, let's go. Let's go through it now. Good, let's go. And I'm doing the real basic, no fancy ship seem as lou.

One two three four five six shick throw, one shoe three four five six shack.

Throw.

Let's do it with a rock record. When I told him, I howk that ship? Let's go.

We a white point record, down, white record, right down, here we go. One tchoo three four five six shack throw one two three four five six check.

Throw.

Let's use a jazz record. This's a jazz record. This is a Jazz records tough line two three four five six check bro one two three four five six check.

Now.

So now, now there's some songs that are an exception to the rule and it's just two bars. And if it's two bars, now this becomes two b effort, this becomes three counterclockwise resume revolutions, full loop extractions all at this.

How I almost slipped on this record when I heard this and I put I put the deed.

Now this one. When I went in a record shop, this death. It was annoying as fucking It was long as fuck. I almost missed this bitch, and so I let it play for a little while.

One two three check call one two three check go one true three check call. This is the quick knick theory because no, it's because the drunk PAM was so short. Okay, so if because most of.

Those were similar to BPM.

So my question is would that apply for a one a house factor or something like that. I'll try that. I never tried that, But it has to be four bars, because four bars for four bars like this this this device, this, this device is static. So four bars on a house record would still be six counterclockwise to get back to the beginning of that particular section. You did what I'm saying, Like, if it's a house beat and it goes into something funky for four bars, you still would have to go

Just now you have no control, no control, right transition the law come on talking, no, no, no, don't talking, don't talk in private.

That's it.

The sign between the drops. I seem like you disgratuated, like bringing it.

Back now.

That what's the sign that this is?

This is this is DJing the right way. This is DJing the right way. You don't put your hands on the record too much. You don't you know, and you put it down and you move it over right, scram We break the law. Louie turned this into a more code. We break the law. We're touching our fingertipty and making the record dirty. We're putting stress on the platter. This is breaking the law. And it took me almost three years to break the law.

And when I did this, when all rappers in front.

Of me, he's in good hands telling his story. And this is when the rappers who were I mean the producers who were DJs. They knew how to take a seamless loop and put it into a machine and then produce the shit out of the fucking beat. So when people like Nori walk in and says wraps and get out, he's in good hands. Producer gonna gonna complete the mix. You know how a recording console. It's like fifty two fadus a lot of work to put a record together.

What about forty.

Material material quake time? Break him in.

No, I wait for he to come back for that one. Damn, I ain't never better.

Okay, we didn't actually we talked about Rick James. We didn't understand. We didn't talk about the meaning of that record. Which one p I m P the s I m P SIMP that's mel did that record with him? I didn't even know about the record. Simp the pimp something like that, Yeah, pimp the sim.

You know it is. And this is the ship that got Sylvia so pissed off because Sylvia Robbinson, what cause sugar Hill Motown called sugar Hill for Mail to guest star on a Rick James record. So, but Rick James knew who I was, he knew the group, and he knew that Grand Master Flash with the trademark, with the mark that was going to.

Sell the record.

So when he didn't put Melody mail, that made sugar Hill Records very angry. But that was a mail and that was a deal. Long after I left right, was doing a few things that nothing happened. Let's put it that way, Okay, okay, But if I had it to do over again, I do just exact same way, man, because I love what I do, all right?

And then talk about get down the was that on Netflix?

Is that based on you?

No?

Here's here's the thing about Boss Lehmann. Bos Lehman would take this big can and he would make this ship look like the most incredible ship ever. And this is why I love Boss learning so much because nobody else other than the people who made Wild Style gave a fuck about wanting to come into the Bronx and film it. So when I met him, he wanted me to just be to help him with uh how the clothing was back then and kind of like a you know, a

I said, well, if you can master.

Money that I make on my toys and I'll stay home and he did. Wow. So from there then one day, you know, shooting, he says, man, I need to put you in this.

I need to get to find somebody to play you in this.

I'm like, well, let's get the fuck out of here, so I'll get down to get down, you know, he tells you this.

You know, I'm going to my area to work.

He's going to this area to work, like passing each other in the hallway, like I'm like, yeah, whatever. About three weeks later, I come to work. He asked me to come in this office.

Yo.

He and I walk in the office and I'm like, who's your mother? Just like me, Oh shoo, who's your mother? Wait about hold on, yeah, except who's your mother?

Yeah?

Who's who's your How you walking in the office? Who's your mother? No?

No?

Walk in. I looked at him and I said, because I was like, what's your mother's name? Because he looked just like me. And sometimes we do things.

You know, and we don't know.

On the hunt. No, I thought that he was my son, I know, not.

You know so to smart.

So bos Bo's got his bozs. You know. He said that she to be in pastor in the hallways. So I didn't take that shit serious. And then he says, your class coming to AUSO, come in to office. I want you to meet somebody I'm walking here. He looks at me. I look at him. I asked him, what's his mother's name? I respectfully, because I mean, I'll say I had fun on the road and I did some things, you know, and people.

That is knw listening to this. He is saying he was the original snipe flo.

Oh my god, why over there? Take down? So I asked him and then I found out, you know who was you know? He told me, told me his background, his family background. I was like, okay, let's go to work.

Let me teach you.

So I taught him somewhat of the basics. I didn't want I didn't want to play the role. He needed somebody younger to play a young flash. So he had to scour the world in front of somebody, and he found he found his dude. That ship I'm Michael. That made me think, on planet Earth, we all have a duplicate. The double Ganger is that what they called it.

That's legitimate, what they called a double ganger. Everybody has an exact twins somewhere in the world.

Double ganger.

Oh ship, I think right, like, Oh, that's bigley up.

Were especially do before good Kid Man.

Good Kid took me a by the month to teach him how to just do the basics, you know, so that you can form on the get down.

So let me tell you something.

That was not a realization of the hood in the Bronx. But that wasn't the intention, right, The intention was to take elements and then glorify it with his story. And the one good thing about that that ship gave attention to the Bronx. It gave it. Even motherfuckers saying that fucking ship was whack. It wasn't real.

It was whatever gave attention to the Bronx.

Was you an executive produco in that series?

I was a producer. I was a producer. Curves Blow was the producer. It was a few, but I was producers all. It was the greatest experienced to be able to just see how a soundtrack is written, and seeing the motherfuckers with the strings and the whole ship, and to see how a movie is made, like to be in the back room and see how it's constructed.

Fucking amazing.

It was.

It filmed in the Bronx. It was filmed in the Bronx and it was filmed and then Boz rented the area in Queens and this must have been the size of ten fucking walmarts and they replicated a bedroom in the seventies, they replicated and this is where he asked me to go to the clothing department to make sure that white clothing at the time, you know what I'm saying.

Silver Cup Studios and Queens.

Oh was it.

As soon as you get the bridge. Yeah, this ship was like this ship was like a whole city block and each room had a replication of like the kitchen, a bedroom, you know, clothing and the whole shit. And he asked me to just kind of oversee a lot of this and then from there he did this glorifying thing that he does, but it wasn't real, but he damned Sho'll put brocks on a map on it with that shit there for real?

Thinking for that now, on that soundtrack, you got Teddy Penneygraft on that soundtrack.

Yeah, did you work with Teddy Penny.

Gra No, I actually did the remix on it.

Oh, that's the remix.

So what happened was they needed certain records in the show with less talking, so he I guess he cut a deal with Sony, and Sony allowed me to go into the vaults and see the masters, and I was able to take masters like I wish I could go back in there now, Like you know, you and I we we look for that shit forever and ever. But imagine going in there and seeing motherfuckers with really white coats on. You got to put gloves on because his masters are so old that they could break, you know

Wow, And they're gonna let you open it.

Up and you know what you want. And they baked.

They baked the poppy dams.

You can't stay. I need a baseline from No no, no.

No, the.

Studio they let me do it. They cook the stems back because they don't want us, they don't want us to have that.

That's a museum.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's that's pretty much that.

Man.

You ever met Prince of Michael. I met Prince when I was when I did the Chris Rockshaw was his music director, and to sit down with him and just talk to him about life, very low speaking, very calm, very intelligent. That ship blew my motherfucking mind. Man, to see that ship, man, Prince, Prince else I never got yet because she's she's really a little guy, little guy, you know. So it was wearing heels though, man, whatever it was.

He was a great fucking artist.

Yeah, it was so doing that. Doing that, you know, I got a chance to meet you know, that's probably when I first the first chance I got to sit and talk with jay Z because he came on the show. Wow, you know, so I had it was quite a moving experience to learn TV. So I've been behind movies and I've been behind TV shows and I remember when the

Ship was hot.

It's pretty cool.

Let's talk about B Street, the street That wasn't me, that was Mail twelve and single Vital get the fun.

Damn you got your name on everything. It was all over, Norrie. The business did what the business did. I'm much smarter than now, a much moreder now. So limitally are you teople who's tuning in right?

When you google this? When you google this actually comes up right, all of these these words with your name attacks you're saying for people who don't know that most of this this was the record label because your name was hotter at the time, or was that name?

Grand Master Flash and.

The Furious Five together simultaneously.

It's that humantained clan. Okay, it's like this here, grand Master Flash and the Furious Five. It's six people. Grand Master Flash was hot from the streets, made hot by the record label. And there was a time when I had to go in to court to fight for my name because it was getting a little bit out of hand. I think at that particular time, I lost everything. But when the day came when the judge says that this marriage has to be ended, and Joseph Sadness awarded his name,

I ran out the.

The judge said it in judge terms, and my lawyer is looking at me, like, what's.

The matter with you?

You just got your name back. I ran out of that courtroom. And the way the courtrooms are is like the White Steps. I felt that all my knees and I thank God, and I was crying like a baby because all I wanted was my name back. Whatever you took for me financially, okay, fine, please take that. Because I think at that particular time, I had done enough imprint in the business and our little business of hip hop that the world would take me in.

And they did.

So that's when I started all over again. I started in clubs and I started playing alone. And I took the theory to the next level, and eighteen years later, here we are. So it was rough, but you know, there's faith and his belief, and I'm very spiritual. I'm big on gods. You know a lot of things that I do.

Guess now, what was your name before before DJ Flash? Just know you said, but your boy didn't do that because you was fast, run fast? So what do you have a name before that?

No?

No, no, Mines was empty Yahoo with the ball to being. I had a funcked up name. You ain't have you just a flash name. He's always had a fly Repeat that again? Is the name empty Yahoo with the ball to Bean.

You didn't come out with the record with that name. That's big, That's what you always came up with.

Flash. You always had a full flash.

Yeah, okay, the Grand Master was put in front of it, you know.

But other than that, no, I wasn't. I wasn't nothing else.

Right, So we got a quick time.

Yeah, they could do a quick time. But Scram is gonna be the designated drinker because you're not drinking.

I'm not drinking drinking.

No designated drinking. Come on, no reason, I'm fast.

No, Yeah, Scram gotta take shots. Man, Yeah, come well, you gotta do it in the name a motherfucker.

I got three questions.

At the quick time, quick time, quick time, the quick time stop quick.

He wants you to drink it.

It means you have to answer everything because if you do know, answer and I gotta take a shot.

You got slain them rules, Oh shipla, the rules. Explain them. I'm gonna ask you one one thing or the other.

Some some controversy questions.

That's one thing.

Get it more complicated, bro, It's just it's just we're gonna give you.

Two two names, two things. You pick one nobody drinks. If you say both or neither of them, then we all drinking. You're not drinking.

You'll see. It's so easy. But but just answer everything.

Multiple choice, Get to pick one nobody drinks, you say both and neither were drinking.

We're drinking with you. We're drinking with you. Ready here, scram, scram, just one shot glass? Come on, you can just be easy.

I he's gouts right, it's not me. Okay, ready for you guys, have a sign? Sign Yeah what you drinking?

What's drinking over there? I'm not the drink. Tell you I want you.

You said you ain't drinking.

I'm gonna say.

No way, all right, Melly Mail or or keep Cowboy.

Oh, this is what I'm saying, load up, scram drink.

And this is is actually a positive thing we trying to bring. We want to talk about these people in a positive way. You can pick up. It's not that you're just say one.

Or the other.

Yeah, we're scram drink.

Melly mill or keep Cowboy? Yeah Mail, Okay, you got it? Yep, cool Hirk or Bambara?

Oh man, just either or either, but you could say both are neither both if you say both scrammed drinks.

I'm sorry, man, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Oh I get it now.

Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah.

Look yeah, it's like we ain't we ain't going crazy. I got one hold hold on, let me, let me get me get I'm outing.

I'm out. Yeah, the b Boys or the mcs.

Oh man, scram o w you love you man, you can't leave do it this man, just both goad go square scare.

I'm sorry, scramm sorry man.

Who Dani or run DMC?

You don't set me up?

Oh my god, man, mascot this ship.

But these guys come up in this. Get these speak English, Run run DMC, run DMC. That's cool, all right, you got it. The Beastie boys or fat boys, Oh, the beef Boys, red Alert or DJ breakout.

Oh ship, I'm sorry man, Both go ahead, square square at the boil bro.

I don't got no line. I've got no chasing.

Nice champs. Biggie, you want some water to go with? Biggie or Big Al? What is this water? Yes? Water, so if you want to chase it?

Both the ones?

Well you said big.

Big yet big gl Big Al, Curtis blow or slick Rick.

Both go ahead, grabbed tiggity you're supposed to be doing. Let me ask you eventually, I'm drinking alcohol.

You would have guessed. You'd have guessed we got a kter Go ahead, I guess and.

That's right.

That's right, Come on, get that. That's top alcohol going.

Oh my god, only because this is an honor to be drinking. Thank you, Thank you. Crush Groove or b Street crush groove. Damn the next one I know we drinking. You would have went be Street.

Let's see, let's see Primo or Pete Rock both. I'm a don't leave the witness things out there. Man, I knew he was gonna say both. Yeah, both, I'm skipping in George Clinton or Rick James.

I don't know what you gotta you gotta say.

You gotta say that, I gotta say that.

You gotta say that both both again.

Sorry, I'm sorry, man, I owe you. I'm sorry.

Curtis Mayfield kind of with James Brown.

Oh my god, just pick pick a better one, a better second to breathe. Yeah, you gotta say both.

I have to say both.

You have to say both.

Go ahead, go ahead. Shot, that's okay, it's tiny shot, and you're spending tonight.

Right Hey, yeah, I tell you man, I'm high and don't want to we yes, I'm fucked up right now.

This is a chance for we see other shows taking this question.

We don't show us up. A lot of shows, see a lot of time.

Man.

But it's all love.

It's all just all love of my favorite fan goodies, d m X or Tupac.

Great questions.

M hm hm.

Both Yeah, hey man, go ahead. I'm sorry.

He wants you to have fun. I'm a d J to tonight, but I don't worry about it. I didn't learn I'm here with bad luck. It's not with somebody ahead.

I'm drinking with you, Okay, Benz Markey or O D B. Yeah, if I thought to where you're at, chiz mark.

Next one's good analog or digital?

H I gotta go in my world?

Man, what's the analog? Don't need to witness my bad, my bad judge. Yeah, bro, no, I did it a couple of times. Already a man along for sure. Yeah. So we're taking a shot.

Get Scram Jones or Scram Jones, all three scam drones.

Take a drink. Take a shot for yourself. Oh okay, look at it. L L cool j or Big Daddy.

K Now, this is offensive because I'm thinking they saying light skin against brown skin.

I'm thinking this what they're going.

They both they both look their lives a lot.

Hey yeah, both of them, both of them. Let's go.

Ok this is this is lethal. This is lethal.

Grab Master cast or Cool Mode.

Coumo d m hm.

Sounds like you still got a little smoke.

I love him. Okay, you got it.

Molly mak you put your head back with Molly ma or Diamond d oh ship.

Both sorry, both both put them are incredible.

Walk wol or dr period walk, Wow, DJ Clue or funk Master flex.

God, you get political, then I can get the car down.

Right, say it again.

You can also say neither.

That's so you can say you can say or both, or you can say or flex, d J Clue or Master Flex.

He's like the last of the masters, right, funk Master.

Both both? Okay, Then I got the Then I get the shot. Hey man, I'm drinking out of my cup. Now I'm switching in. I'm just look, I'm just that's a good one.

Crazy rock him okay, verst one, Oh boy, both both, Marvin.

Gay Movie Roberson scream Marvin who I smell it? Wow, Oh my god. I feel for you, Dog, I feel for you.

Kanye West or Pharrell Williams both.

I'm gonna hold you up there as soon as you know supposed to be done.

Here, Goad got yeah, yeah, alright, man, you.

Michael Jackson or Prince both.

Double fisted, bro, No worry, man, I'm respecting from a flash two sober to to not sober. No, that's not the way this works. Come, you gotta follow the rules. He's saying, he's grand Mescenory right now. Your TV raps or video music box.

Don't bring me no more. I'm getting your music box.

Ralph McDaniel's we let you having you, We need you all here.

Yeah, it's not it's a good question.

Stevie wonder away, Charles Stream Yes, scramming man both both. Yeah, yeah, I see that coming.

Oh you see that? He said you you in the djus killed that? What about you kills that shot with me? Fand oh god, I can't do that, man, I'll sleep for a week. Are you ready?

I'm like, I'm.

Ready to take your shot.

Take it.

You've got a lot of shots you ain't taken.

Look at that.

Yeah, but but look at if you're twenty five. Come on, bro, come on right now.

Come on at least come on, come on, I'm on to the next one. You got to take at least two of those. Come on, bro, you're embarrassing us. Jamie sitting over here, You're not even come on.

Jamie's like He's like, She's like, this is the work shot? Yes, ever, come on? Come on? Yeh we hard But where's my toast?

You brother?

You the heat man and the DJ yea, what do you say?

Take the shot?

You want to take the shots? Sheep, don't put me on the man. You want shot and you want shot. It's okay, you can't.

Shot from.

You ready about the quiller, he's livery suckers. So we could be here today, Tequila? What you not me? Bro?

Your dreams Lieu Richie or Teddy puttograph it's horrible ass.

That's a They both was dope right.

Yo, this segment is open.

We were almost over thirty more say Teddy Teddy.

Okay gang star or E P M. D Oh.

Come on, scram ticket.

We're not gonna give you new shots and please take it.

Take you're five older children.

Speeding though you speaking.

Chill out, chill out, You're never gonna be invited back.

I called you personally. Can you come out here I'm doing I'm not gonna be good, you know, come on, come on. They're good people. They're good people.

The good people ain't gonna let you shoo off front of your airline.

They're good people. Taking a goddamn cherry. Come on, just take a shot. Thank you?

Goes all right?

Oh man trip coll quest or day lot so oh.

Damn man'll slam up man A segments over Bro, No, no, come on, scrap, we're talking here. Both both yeah, man.

Okay, n w wah wu tang clan, Oh my goodness both. I was gonna let you do the ice ce No, No, there's uh they got a square walk the executioners or the scratch pickles both. That's three you scraam.

Come on ice Cuba, scarface, I need to yeah both, he's got enough for the for the three year limit.

Three and then you got this litt you're almost you gotta take those three though, come on, I'm drinking.

Drink Champs Christmas Party.

Want to get back to the interview. Loyalty or respect? Mhm say both? So he could just spoilt.

Man, you gotta take all all of those shots.

I'm gonna take a shot with you though. Thanks for taking one one shot I took a couple.

Were talked about flash we access to the heavy guess and it's almost like a cliche type of question, but it really isn't.

Not we went accident to you. You want to manage it?

Hey, no, sod conversations.

You heard them.

We're in the resource room staying there.

That's just.

Did you ever think that hip hop would make it this far.

Back then? Like you got to see it from the.

No, no, I think, especially during that error, this coat was very neat.

White people always burp it.

This coat was very neat and like they had they had it together. Yeah, it was pretty neat and hip hop.

Even to this day it's tattered.

Right. You know, we we swag a little different. We were closed a little different. We we dressed a little different. We were I this this or like this, like we do things many flavors of hip hop. Yeah, we we break the laws too much. I didn't think that a major corporation, a major situation, would say, how we're gonna take these guys who were their hats backwards, who don't dress like the average partygoer, We're gonna invest money in them.

What is that?

It could have been ill and ill. I don't think none of us would be here. We will probably be doing some other shit. I'll be doing something different. I would have hated it, but I would have been doing something different.

You wore a lot of spikes back then.

I didn't, but yeah the crew did. Yeah, No, I didn't win no spikes. You know, you know we wore we wore a lot of leather. Lets. We know we've heard different stories. Why, but what's your take on why?

That was the I think we wanted to be when we we we we idolized rock and rollers, rock and Rollers, Parliament and Parliament pumpadelic, Like they dressed one way when they went in the streets and they dressed that way when they were on stage.

So we were like, let's let's not go buy leather. Let's hire somebody and fly him around the country with us to make our ship.

So we had a letter name was Mickey.

Yeah, I had stylist from back then. Yeah, So we like if we wanted like turquoise in black, you know, just way in that way. He would high home and then a week lady he would come with six suits boom is he French? Is black?

He's black black French.

You're hele the shop. He's so hard Okay, we told him close that ship down.

We're gonna pay you.

Wow.

And he took care of us.

God damn it.

Man got to take a shot for that man. Take a shot. Take a shot.

This is his boss side. Right.

Do you like going in the studio making records or do you like performing records?

What is? What is?

What is what?

I like doing both? Okay, I like doing both because producer records is technical and that's where I come from. That's a scientist, that mean. But then the performance side of me is the other side, all right playing, So I would say both nor here I say both.

Let me ask you because like the way you broke this down, this was very scientific.

This was very biology.

Like.

This was like this was like a science project how you broke it down. But then I got a lot of friend DJs that's dumb. How do they get over DJ? Because they're not smart? He did all the hard work for it. Oh you literally you know all this shit.

And somehow it transcended to me as a d like we did all the hard work and it just all that information came to this is the top tier learn how to DJ. I don't go this. Yeah, you know how we all just screwing the ball.

But we didn't fucking do all this ship for the light to turn on right the DJs afterwards.

Don't get me wrong.

There's DJs that are really technical, really amazing. But for the most part, he did the hard part. He created the ball.

We just screwed it in.

That's probably a good way to put it.

Okay, okay, So basically, you ever walked into a party and the DJ is DJ and off his.

I pard or his I haven't seen that yet, but I've heard about it.

I haven't seen that yet.

We you do.

If you walked in the party right now, would you say, damn, it's come a long way? Or would you be like J mister Lee for the Dominican Republic was back there damn into his phone.

The Dominican guy. Let me ask the question, would it be like a party with people dancing? DJ?

But he's looking in the mirror though when he's doing it, because I can imagine you're doing that.

You know, you know what I say to myself? What would you? Yeah, I'm a scientist, right and I'm always wanting this to see people push the envelope, to see somebody DJ off their iPod.

What is it two iPods that one.

Would be ins iPhone. Now there's no more. It's his phone. He got, he got his phone, so he's getting so he's just pretty much just playing. He's playlisting.

Yeah no, they actually have little turntable apps in the phone and some people are.

Actually I've never seen it, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, showing this despicable showing I heard about it.

Never seen someone.

Yeah no, I've seen you in your phone from.

Anybody just playing a playlist off their phone saying their DJs.

That's the most disrespectful shit in the world.

You at least have the app that you're doing, like a ticket ticket and then fucking.

I think I've seen Shot get busy on his phone one time.

I bet you, I bet you has he's a DJ bro He's yeah, he has a better Shay app.

Yeah, it was a shock.

Who was that's big in sports? Play for the Lakers. Point god, you know what I'm talking about. Play for the Lakers. He's a DJ, early early Lakers, when the Lakers was killing it. Magic Johnson was a DJ really.

Hell yeah, he played the Pay's.

Been older for twenty five years. Yeah, played for the like Magic Johnson want to DJ Jesus right now? The masic was the DJ. I didn't know that. I thought you was talking my home Russell? What Russell? I want to show up to.

The breakdances? Who like I see them? I see them?

You never see these motherfuckers do that crazy leg like crazy legs and and and and in the shott that's going into the Olympics. Yeah, it's incredible, like the way they contort their body.

And do that ship they do.

Yeah, absolutely shout out to do on concrete early Breakers, my early breakers, BAMS early breakers, and then the second tier that came along the Breakers, you know all.

Absolutely one.

Can we actually go go back to the convo of that's when you that's the beginning of you wanting.

To continue those breaks was for the breakers, for the breakers, the breakers where the stars the rappers hadn't arrived yet, right, they hadn't arrived yet, you know.

And and sorry sout, but the audience came to hear you and see them right right or you could see a Breakdan So with the boom box on any corner the Street corner doing a ship with the cardboard, with the cardboard exactly.

Come look at the.

Back of your shirt real quick.

Please, I want to say, by the way, we get disestablished and we laced you with some drink Champs gear right there.

I got you.

Yes, can you read that for me?

Scram First DJ to make the turntable an instrument, you know, to have a rapper that's makes no noise for that.

DJ to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Face. First DJ to be on serious ex DJ to get a Grammy. It was DDA to get a polar price.

Can't you read the box?

Thank you?

You're good?

Yeah, we got Yeah, you took a lot of them shots. Man, you're good.

He took it for the culture. What do you do with your Grammy right now? Like? Do you sip out of it? Actually? I do a show on Twitch every Tuesday, New high Noon Experience and then Thursday's eight pm. Uh my Grammy is in my studio. Okay, well, well I do my show. Yeah, you know, like one is on one podium, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame one is on the left podium, the Grammys on the right, and then all the other awards are kind of.

You know, uh sped around, you know, so good because k Rest said that he boycotted, not boycotted, but he didn't want to participate and the Grammys ceremonied because like forty years of hip hop. He's like, yo, that could have started at forty seven and gave us a warning and you know what I mean, And he's like, you guys just want to you want to ignore us for fifty year.

But he said that he didn't feel that hip hop was fully represented in that.

Yeah, like the B Boys, the Big Girls. Yeah, I mean I would agree that needs to be seen on a major network. Four elements. Nobody has done that yet, So I do respect charts KRS one four four elements is to break, Yeah, and then the fifty artist abatable and yeah, four elements and the knowledge yourself and be boxing are always like be boxing, I don't know what that is because the B boxes right there, So you think about being boxing that falls under wrapse speaking, you know, musically.

Do you feel that everything for fifty Yeah, for fifty years hip hop, whether it was author or not, was it positive because you know a lot of obviously a lot of corporate interests show advantage of Oh, okay, it's hip hop fifty. So we're gonna have we're gonna do all these things. So your question is what now, Like, do you feel that it was positive in general for hip hop?

Yes?

I do in general.

I just think that, as I said earlier, the detail of where it came from and what it took to get here has not been properly represented. And this is what I say to the PR people and to the press people, like, if you want to know like at the beginning, beginning, beginning, you got to ask somebody that's around sixty. You have to. You can't ask somebody thirty or twenty five. You just cannot. And this is why

You know what I'm saying.

No, what is it?

Five?

What is it?

Five to twenty?

Cedric?

What is iteen twenty Saturday, fifteen twenty? That's herks Plax? Mine is is twenty seven thirty two we Avenue. That's a two part question.

Is that actually the first hip hop party that ever was there?

I didn't see it, Okay, I never I didn't see it. I don't know what's here. And I've never talked to anybody that went to this party. And I'm not saying that it didn't exist for sure, but I haven't seen anybody on the internet talk about I was there. I that's what crazy, legs, that's what crazy.

He said that the discrepancy with that party is one of the biggest contested things really the history. He feels that that flyer keeps getting remixed, where people keep adding names, taking names away.

Yeah, that's he said it on the show.

He said that that's a contested event, like nothing it happened, but how it happened, or who involved or what.

Yeah, I'd love to know who was there and how the party turned out, how many chicks were versus guys when you break it, Like, I want to know that too, Like I want.

To know the mayor go around.

I want to know what that technique of minds to the quick mix theories.

I'd love to know, you know, what was that for us party? And what's the merry go round?

When did you first hear about that party? Like when was it first?

Like when did people start saying this is the first party identifying it as the beginning of hip hop, is that you remember, because that's that's crucial. You would be the one to tell us because we wouldn't know that's way before our time, right, you would say, Hey, you know what, guys, I really didn't remember this being talked about as much. And that's kind of like what Crazy Legs was kind of talking about.

I don't want to I don't remember.

I don't remember what he said. I can't remember because it's all rallying around that point. That's why we're celebrating fifty, right.

But then if we're going to celebrate fifty, then we got to talk about the party, who was there, right where it was, what happened, and this is you know, this is probably probably why he's he's he's saying that, you know, like I would respectfully love to sit down with Hurricane, you'll sit down with his crew. That's why it's crucial that he does what you're doing.

It's it's it's extremely important.

And I can tell you even on my streams, I have people who were at my parties in the beginning when I was nothing. Uh, that that will tell you what my party who's like the They remind me of ship that I forgot about his Cookie Monroe, Anna Monroe, Jacqueline Tucker, like these people that are still here, and one of them actually works works with with me in

Was going on?

Like, what was happening?

We need to know that. It's critically this happens before August eleventh.

That's just my opinion.

Respect August eleven for making fifty one years.

After that it becomes of fifty one years and then it's over. You know, next fifty years, I ain't gonna be here, you know, So do you think I remember? That?

Was another thing that Crazy Legs was playing was that hip hop is older than fifty.

Yeah, he's saying because and DMC said this, he said documented hip hop, we can call it fifty. But he said hip hop was happening before that that's what even DMC was saying that, Yeah, okay.

Let's define it. If we define it, guys, it's the DJ only and playing what we call bastard music. The C cuts, the D cuts, the F cuts off the album. That's where hip hop. To me, that's where we had no title. It wasn't it wasn't named yet.

That's why it.

Could be up for discussion, you know, because there's two ways to look at it. When it was fully formed and all four elements came into into play, that would make it me seventy four because that's when hip that's when Cowboy joined me. But if we go pre then it was just the dj M and the breakers and the graffiti artists. Coclorac says he's a rapper, but he's not.

He was a DJ.

I used to go watch him and if he was talking on the mic, you know with the echo, Chambers was just rambling. So there are some things that are up that a subject. And I want to give Perk all his flowers. He deserves everything that he's done. But there are some things that are up for question, and I think either all of us or one at a time, like Cochlar Rock, Timmy Tam, I think he's passed away. Clock can't the original clocks, you know, and the twins,

It would be a lot of you guys together because you could cross reference, debate things, and hash it out of that moment.

Speaking on cross referencing Wikipedia, they have been extremely just suspectful to me. There's supposed to be the standard for information for the world to see old and new. Right. They got my birthday wrong. Fifty eight supposed to be fifty seven. I was born in the Bronx. They are you know their process on how they say yes or no to something. I tried even talking with them. They said, mister Sadler, I say I did this. They say, missus Sadler,

Of course there's no reference because I didn't talk about it.

I just started talking for a long time, and I'm gonna tell you why, Because talking these things and this math is geeky, and for a long time, geeks weren't cool, right, so I shut the fuck up. For a long time.

Now geese ruled the world. I'm talking.

So, yeah, you know, like Wikipedia, once you hiring.

Me, Yeah, Wikipedia, hire motherfucking grandmaster flash, please.

You hire me. I can really help you with, especially with the historical area and your process on how you say something is credible versus something that's.

Not, because they allow people to go in there that are like Wikipedia approved, so they input it. But it's like like, like how can they You can't for yourself think right?

Wrong?

Right?

They're talking in the horse's mouth like you're talking to the person. No, we're sorry, Uh, we'll get back to you. And then when we get back to them, all we couldn't find no reference. You ain't gonna find no reference. Put you on the right link when links weren't available at that time. But you know what, the references the streets, right, that's a reference.

No one's gonna check you.

Who's gonna say that I didn't do it.

Here's the man in the science, and then I physically done it. That leads me to a thought.

And I don't know if you guys brought it up before when I went to the restaurant, but is there any documentary that you would co sign and say this is the best documentary right now that tells you the history? Oh?

Man, there's so many I seen ship, so many that I seen. Oh, I can't answer that question right now. There was a few that was pretty good. I think Rebel Kings was really dope. I don't know if you saw that. No, I didn't see that one.

There was a man fresh dress which felt like a complimented rubble guy. I don't know everybody saw that saw that. But I felt like those two documentaries need to look at I need to look at those. It tells the Bronx history, like what was happening through the Gang Wars all hip.

And I think for me, the documentary that I'd love to see is if someone paints a picture of the beginning and then slowly take it up.

Here.

A few of the of the documentaries I did see, they're incomplete. They're not wrong, they're just holes in it. You know you can poke holes in it because you got to say, wait a minute, if that was that, then how did that get to that?

And that there? I'd love to see you ever got to be Biggie?

No? Oh wow?

How about Tupac?

I sat next to Tupac at a gathering and we talked for a few minutes, but we didn't.

I didn't to talk to these two.

I would have.

I think.

When I heard what happened them too, I cried. I didn't really know them. I never had coffee and t with them. I know their parents, I kN know nothing, but they've done so much for the culture.

I think.

This thing has to stay. If it has to exist, it's just stay competitive. Nobody should lose their life over this. That there is insane, like why did they have to die? And then here is the crazy shit. Please can't find out who did what what? It's still a question mark, right, it's a conspiracy. We don't know nothing. What the fuck is up with that?

Why is this they held in public places where there's witnesses.

That makes me crazy? And them two going at it east and west? What's healthy to hip Hopa's healthy competition? But people losing their life come on. I tried like a baby, and I never met them personally because of what they meant to the culture. We have a big fun You ever met Big Pun I met him once for a brief period of time. I didn't get to talk to him much either.

Nor if you get asked to do a party right now, and this party is sixteen to twenty one, they're saying they want new music.

What is a new artist?

A new artist that grand Master Flash is getting the party jumping to him.

Can I be totally honest with you, Yes?

Please.

I have a lane, and respectfully, if I'm not an expert in what I do in my lane, I don't go near it. I don't know enough about the music that the sixteen to twenty one's love.

I couldn't play a two hour set.

I don't. I don't.

I don't know enough to play to know this.

And scram could definitely identify and you there's that nine o'clock record, and there's a record to.

Hold to one o'clock.

I'll probably played the one o'clock record at nine, like I will probably screw the whole fucking shit off.

You know what I'm saying.

My children they't tell me about records all the time, you know, and I check it. But I am not going to try to be something that i'm not and service because I'm a servant and if I can't serve you properly, then I will serve you at all respectfully.

It's like one time I was hanging with Bust and I'm be paraphrasing or thinking this in a different form. So if I if I if I get it wrong, then I apologize. But bus one time someone calls him and they wanted him to perform at an old school event, and the fact that they called it old school, I don't think he wanted to participate, you know.

What I mean?

Hmm, because he felt like, yo' I might be old school to some, but I'm not old school, So he didn't want to participate in that. Is that something like if it's like a new school jam, like you don't want to like indulge in because no.

I'm not saying I don't want to indulge in it. Don't do him. Yeah, I don't write because I'm gonna do me right. And they're gonna say, what is he playing? Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do what we understand. I'm gonna do with everybody in this room understand what a sixteen year old gonna say?

What is that right?

And why are you playing that right? We don't want to hear that, And I had nothing. He has nothing to do about whether I love or hate or whatever. I don't know that music enough anything that I want to put sick my teeth into. I'm really having to master it and understand it and know it so that when I get on them ones, I know where to take you.

All right, what else you got your notes?

Let's let's listen all let's see. Yeah, I'll make sure we get every data. Yeah, exactly, exactly exactly.

Oh, let me just.

I want to make this clear. There are so many DJ techniques that has that has happened, and I want to make sure people truly understand DJ's played turntable is the right way. I don't know how to play that way. I played DJs, I played the wrong way. So there are some of the DJ techniques that I didn't create. There's a few that was a great creative by me. Because everything that's going to last has to be taken to another level. There's incredible DJs out there. What I'm

Right now.

That's crazy, And they fact checked they said that in fact, Magic Johnson is a DJ.

Oh you the checks, Yes, Google, Can I ask you a question?

Okay? But before you do that, can I just can I just shout out some people?

Please, let's go let's go. These people I'm going to talk about made hip Hop, Bic Business, Doctor Dre kg, Jermaine Duprie, Diamond D, The track Masters, the beat Nuts, eaz Mo, B forty five, King, Just Blaze, Timberland, Dallas, Austin wyclef, Arthur Baker, DJ Scratch, Egyptian Lover, Herbie Lovebug, The Rizza, Molly Ma, DJ Tuk, Pete Rock, Rick Rubin, Warren g j as EJ, Kick, Capri, DJ Battlecat, The Bomb Squad, Kanye West, DJ Premier, Teddy Raleigh, Manny Fresh,

What's your question, man? My question is you just showcase what the fader does.

But the fader never existed when they just had the knobs, when there was no dual turntable action going on. So what was what's up the invention of the fader? Do you have anything to do with it when it was created? Okay, let's go back in the rabbit hole. The actual terms for the faders called the panometer and the round nob is called the potentiometer.

Oh shitter, you please research.

It, you'll find it. It's true. Back in the day, right, the cross fader wasn't there.

We were doing to up and downs, up and downs, up and down, so we ups and down ups and downs with because the faida had to come into play.

I've seen the fada coming a play when it was a company by the name of Gemini. The DAC two thousand X mixer silver Face. That was my first mix in them.

And when I.

Made that mixer at the industry stadd Mixer, I had been looking for someone who.

Has that mix.

I paid them any money for them. I'm saying it on television because it's a mixer that I brought to the world. Bring it out here FN. And then the first turntables was the SL twenty three's. That is how I created the seamless loop so that Cowboy and the Boys can rhyme, you know. So these are the things I need to talk about. And the breakdancers. Can I talk about the breakdancers too?

Of course?

You know. Uh, let's go to the to the breakdancers, see the DJs, the Breakers, the Breakers, like the original Breakers were, they were black.

And here's some of the names.

Sasa, Tricksy Dancing, Doug Black, Jerry Easy, Mike, Flipping Mike, Female Breakdancers, Sister Boo, Mother Earth Janie. Then as years went on, it's where the Latins got involved, the Spanish people got involved. And here's some of the names rock Steady Crew, Dynamic Breakers, New York Breakers, Electric Boogaaloos.

Here's some soloists, Future two.

Thousand, Fab five, Frettie was a Breaker, Lady Pink Scene, Lee Quinnones. These are kind of people I want to talk about because they're part of the story of They're part of this whole move for me that she can't be. Yeah, and now we're right here, we drivingized cars, we living comfortably. So how did the fuck it should happen in the beginning? How did it happen? That's where I'm at.

Have you ever went to a hip hop show? I'm been disgusted, like people rhyming over the vocals. They're not having no routines, you know, I think, Okay, you're talking about the performance aspect bad. I think It's extremely important.

If you know your craft, know your craft with no net meaning you should not be rhyming over the vocal version right, because even if you make a mistake, that's what makes the performance so incredible. Like when jay Z was at the Garden and you tell the DJ, throw it Paul, it's the instrumental, he would say the rhyme, say the right, and he would stop rhying for a few seconds. Then he'll he'll jump back on. Just let y'all knows no net here. You know what I'm saying.

No, they won't.

That would be because some of them, some of the rappers say they're incredible, But to see, like I love to see. I love to get Drake on a break. I love to get Nas on a break. Jay Z already knows how to do this. You know what I'm saying.

Nas done it, Nas has done it.

I don't know about a lot of footage, but I know Nass wrapped over breaks Drake would be dope.

Yeah, I know, let it be yeah, back in then break down like, uh, what's his name?

Redman and.

Method Man l a cool Jay's thing them with the DJ, I said, Pucker was pulling that ship down and throwing it back in and rubbing in and it was I'm like that there, And I walked up to him and I said, that was fucking hip hop with sure and the DJ was the name escaped me, Please excuse me, but they were so when you become one with your DJ, nor when you become one with no look like you ain't got the word. You ain't gonna turn around never.

Little forwards works, you know, doing the pull a painted down for one ball pulp and bring it back and you know how to do it.

That's hip hop.

That's when like the DJ's name was always first Eric B and Rock Cam, Jazzy Jeff in the Fresh Pins.

You know that. Yeah, I think I think. I think it's an injustice to people who paid forty dollars to come in and say a hundred dollars to go see you, to talk to rhyme over your tour.

Yeah, now you're just getting the parents, but you're not getting a performance.

Yeah, it's not it's not it's not fair.

Some people call it lip sync and it's lazy, even though it's not. Some people yea lipsticking my motive vocals.

I think that rapp should run to the instrumental of the track and make a mistake if you have to, or add a new line in it, and I go back to the red do it, or go like put the mic out and let them say it.

Like there's a lot of audience into your performance, and.

You know, it's crazy. You know how I found that out. I did it overseas one time, and and like I had to do like an hour show. And at the time, all I was doing was like like you know, the hats or whatever. So but over there they wanted it was in the contract an hour show, so like you know in America that I'll do, you know. And as soon as I finished, I was like I killed that right, and they're like, you had the vocals, and I was like.

Like the hour. I thought I was doing like an hour and they were like, yeah, we liked it, you did an hour.

But and I was like, I never did that ship again.

I never did that in America. Whose school be to that. Let me tell you something. Your seasonal fuck around. They take they take this hip for miss aspect of this ship. They take this fucking ship deadly, deadly like we we we we take it banished because we here. You fly with that motherfucker's ocean and you land your ship better be tight. But they gonna let you know world up.

I remember one time I was I say this on the show all the time. I went to do a show and the promoter he paid us and left, and.

We're like, what the fuck?

And he came back because he went and did a graffiti piece with our name component No, and he comes back.

It's paint all over this ship.

And I want to look at him and be.

Like, it's not that serious, like but like, you know what I mean in America, he really literally showed us a piece that he they love you, we don't.

I think that that's the one thing that one of the other things that I think needs to happen in this country is that we need to appreciate this culture because it's appreciated around the world. It's actually one of the I would say it's one of the biggest cultural exports this country has, and it's impact the world, but we're losing our grasp on the world because they are looking at.

Us as sellouts to the culture.

I had a person like I was coming out the back.

Door, hey man, right of the concert, and this guy.

He pushing through the crowd and he takes off his fucking shirt.

I'm like, shits about to hit the fan, thought, just get ready to be a real mean one. He had me he had a picture of a tattoo of Medjing on his fucking back. I thought to my knees, like, whoa you painted no fucking back, life for life.

That's there for life.

They take that ship so serious, Like did you have a drink with them? You have to drink with this No, I just came drink them. I jumped to the car and was like just quiet all the way to the hotel, like this motherfucker And it looked like he wanted to start a fight with me and fight backwards.

But fucker said, look, boom big, No, it's truly appreciated.

It's a lot thing that what the fuck?

I just yeah, you gotta sign that for me. Don't tell me you don't co sign it, because then I'm come on, because I sign the record. He walked in.

He threw your record. Whatever the record you have?

No, no, no, my homie gave it to me with that. Well, you signed this one for me? I know you say you didn't, jus let me tell you why because we was already going. I know you said it and I already like this got record. Yeah yeah, but see you guys, you signed my figure. Jesus Christmas. What's that record?

Though?

You know gonna say it?

What is it? He talked about? The other one was sugar Hill Record Label.

Okay, that's what I prefer this.

It's all good.

We got a couple of the things for you decide.

It's all good. You guys, enjoy yourself so far.

Listen, man, this is we live in history right here.

This is history.

We want to just say this and I'll give you the question. Man. We wanted to do this for so long.

Man, you're really you know what I'm saying.

One this is one man, you know we want to do this. And March is eight years of drink jams. Yes, yeah, we can't believe that.

Whoa.

Yes, a lot of like just come and go because it don't last. It's a lot of work. Yes, that's a lot of world.

But but but our platforms as big as a guy, whatever it is, it's always been for people like you, you know, because we are you know, I might I might be. I call myself a major label type of guy. He calls himself an independent type of guy. Okay, But besides all of that, our hearts hip hop. If you can, if you cut, you cut my skin, or you were gonna bleed hip hop. You know what I'm saying you, We're gonna bleed hip And that's really what it is.

Like it opens up this mysterious.

Box of hip hop that like you know what I mean, Like Crazy Legs has his version, you got your version, Coohirk has his version. This band Bottle who got his version.

There's so many.

But the thing is it all all in this beautiful pot of hip hop. Yes, this is beautiful soup. It's in this beautiful beautiful whatever it is, it's hip hop.

You you know what I'm saying.

And when we get pillars like you would get legends like you would get I cars like you. It's like, I think, this is one of the most quietest I've ever been, And.

It was you guys.

It wasn't because I was quiet because I didn't have things to say. It was quiet because I was soaking up the knowledge. And as much as I've been I still learn things, like I'm they'll learn it so much.

It's so beautiful to see you.

Just and and then a lot of these people, you know, like, it's so good to see you in great spirits. It's so good to see you, you know what I mean, spreading the hip hop because so many people, like like some of your your statesmen, you know, they don't they don't open theyself up to people, you know what I mean.

They're like, you know what, I'm a part of the royal family. Fuck you. You know what I'm saying. I'm saying so it's it's vice versa, like, oh no, I feel it's critically important that this, this, this, this this information gets shared because you know, once again Wikipedia.

This is not on the internet.

This is not a lot of this stuff that that I talked about today.

Was not on the internet.

Is because I didn't talk right, you know, and Bam will say the same thing. A Hurdles say the same thing, and Breakout will say that say say the same thing. You know. And it's wonderful to have platforms like this because there's a lot of new type platforms out there, So a platform like this to say, let us play honor to the people who did things that have passed right, it's wonderful.

Before I think, I want to add to what Nora was saying, it's what I think is what we're trying to do was critically important to hip hop. I think right now most importantly is that we steer people away that the young generation that looks at at at social media numbers to dictate who are the leaders of the culture. This is why just just numbers in social media, that's that doesn't matter, because what taught us is I remember listening to artists speak about what was going on before

We need to do that. We need to elevate the real leaders.

Of the culture, not that social media or popular whatever dictate this.

You You are the leader.

Thank you, Thank you so much, so much.

Up man, Well, I got to give you my flower your flowers too.

You know, you invented hip hop, you invented you invent hip hop, you invented rap music, and you invented turntablism, and that's what I've been obsessed with my whole life.

And thank you man.

You are incredible in them once baby, thank you man.

But but it's just crazy that you actually it's actually surreal that you invented what we do in them turntables, and you invented rap music because it would be nobody rapping over the breakbeats if you wasn't bringing them back and passing the mic off the cowboy or whatever. So it's kind of surreal when you really think of that. That's just the dumb it down for the listeners like you. You are the number one inventor. I'm just gonna give

I just want to say that not beating around the boat.

Supposed to dude that invented the peanut. Oh yeah we have George.

Warstone Washington car. Yeah, yeah, you like.

So I got two questions and jumping around, but all your stories was in the Bronx. My question is what was your relationship with the other Burroughs. What was going on with hip hop? Did you was you tapped into Queens and Brooklyn and stan Island?

What was they doing?

Or would you even or you in your own little bubble, you know what.

I'm saying, like what we did?

You even know what was going on in Queens, Brooklyn, steyn Island? Good question? Okay, and this is I think I said this earlier. Well, Hollywood did Hollywood. Hollywood would do five parties in one night. So what we started doing was renting a sound system that wasn't ours, cause that's what takes the longest to take it apart and no ship, renting a sound system, renting other DJs and

So all these ladys you see where they way behind the bronx, so they was they was had their own little movement.

This is what I would hear.

We heard the tapes and hearing the concess tapes, who was asking ourselves how the fuck is he doing that? That's how the world got around. When we got near town to plays like we want to see you do that live? Because on the mixtapes this ship sounded impossible to do. So that was like our audio flyer and that played a major role that allowed me to go to different boroughs and get an interest on we want to go see these motherfuckers do these ship live? And

A lot of people got their flowers yourself, cool heart, But obviously ban Boda was excluded.

You think you should have been excluded this year due to what was going on.

Would never exclude him? Now, let me tell you you didn't exclude him. I'm talking about the masses. I didn't see any tributs, not even.

Right about that.

Let me tell you something.

I still don't know how that that case, let's call it that case, how it's going to turn out, on what's going to happen. But you can't deny history. I cannot. It'd be a big hole in this story if I took him out of the mix of me speaking, it'd be and if somebody would catch me out there okay, well when the gangs were around, what were you doing then? When on my line say oh, all the gangs was in it? No, bam turned him around. It's just he plays a major role in this ship man and the

He kept his word.

She seen me and she made it absolutely clear to Freddy, I'm going to write a song about the way he does those things on the turntable. Freddie told me, I'm like, hit the fuck out here and all of a sudden in between, like when you record an album, you rest. You can record an album and then you rest during the rest perty people say, yo, you got a record.

I said, noah, we.

Be resting. There's some record with some women talking about cars and bars, and I'm like, what's And then when I heard it, I'm like, oh shit. She kept her word. She called sugar Hill and asked them can I be in a video? And sugar Hill said no, oh wow, oh yeah, you weren't in that video. I seen him and that's why the other one other person played the

But she said no, So I never got on that.

But I thank Blondie for bringing me into white people and Germany people and that other world I needed. I needed to get in that world because I didn't want this thing to just be just black or just Latin. What year was that though, I'm just trying to like put it in. Shot Rocks, shot Rock with the seventies, so brodid yeah, early eighties. Yeah, it was not you know when we're making records now, we're in the record

Uh, that was wonderful as well.

And I can remember I was standing there all day waiting to get shot, and then started raining and Charlie had to return the camera back. It was a Sunday hit, return the camera back to the movie house Monday, so they had to drop me off home. We never got to shoot me. The shooting team, the producers team says, we got to use the bathroom. It shull come upstairs Cyprus Avenue on thirty A Street. The shooter says, you know, Charlie, who's a producer, why don't you shoot flash right there?

So they shut up. Shout up all the cameras.

I cut bondi gras and that came one of the biggest scenes in the whole the whole movie. So shout out to Charlie, you know. And that's another story that needs to be one of the first representations on film, right, absolutely the first, absolutely the first. And he can't enough to come into the Bronx and film us. You know,

So a director comes to you, see for lack of for the first person, I think of Opportuno and Antoine foul Quad Okay, together, it comes to you and says, flash, I want to do a movie about hip hop? Is this movie about you by yourself? Or is this movie the four people You've been naming this whole time.

Always some four people, but it's not.

Let me finish my question, because this is now we're getting the lucrative park. Go ahead, because they're saying, Yo, do you want a movie about hip hop?

We don't mind if it's you or it's four.

If it's you, you eat this whole bag, whatever this bag.

Is, but you will.

We can take the story for you from your from you, and you can break down these four stories if we can get it from you. Or do you want to consult these other two these other three people? Do you consult them? Or do you take the whole bag and say I'm another story position?

No, I go get them and I split the back up.

I have to, Okay, I have to because you know the reason why I have this, Because I don't have to complete, complete, complete, Yeah, I don't have that story I have. I have what I've seen in public, but I don't know Mom and Dad, their mom and Dad's story. I need I need that, and then we have our second tiers. They play a major role to continue to push.

It as well.

So I'd have to put back and say you this is what it is. All right, do we do this together? Do we not?

I want us to sit down for free. And I've been saying this year for you guys, need to do, need to do. I would love for us to be somehow involved in this and to put the cameras wherever and just let us just talk.

It's Mount Rushmore. Just call it the Mount Rushmore with your.

Four This would be absolutely wonderful because I'm sure that our stories run parallel some way, or somehow it runs parallel, and then for you guys that are watching, it'll all come together like, oh, that connected to that, to that connected to that, and that connected to that, and that's why that is that and that's what you don't have yet. We don't have that story where we're all there. Pork is not well, but he's got a team of people. Bamits in a situation. He's got a team of people.

I want to comm into us trying to make that we definitely, but let me ask you right because me and if it is something that we have been saying since we started the show as well, is that hip hop can have.

Our own union, right, you know what I mean?

Other than all sports and all the all the other you know people entertainers other than boxing, hip hop is the only other like entertainment, uh form that doesn't have unions.

And union when you mean my union like sag like a sag.

Yeah, yeah, like insurance saying you know, like a sad too, like a sad actors.

You can let me do the question back at you would be what would be the duties of this union to take care of our people if you need. I mean, this is what I would.

Okay, let me expand on that. I love this. I love this cool.

If we can make a union that would put re lease our own if a person is in trouble. He's getting in trouble. Send him to the union. Like there's too many rappers. You can see them on their way to going to prison.

From their own rights.

We got right.

The car crash. Before the car crash, let's grab said hello because some of the because some of these hip hopis may not have elders people around him and say listen, you know you're getting ready to crash. If we can police our own, a lot of the ship that happens today would not happen. That's just how I see it. We should police our own. It's a great, great idea. Nor hopefully before I leave out of here, I would love.

To see Chuck Dee and Kris and I think Curtis blow they created something, and Kimming just well that's not that created that fund.

But see, but what I love about what NAG is doing. I think it is absolutely wonderful. It's beautiful. I think it's so beautiful. But there's so many people, that's the thing, that are much more needy. With Rock cam Worth that absolutely, Scott is worth that, absolutely, but there are three other elements of people that don't have that are struggling doing that. And if he'd had done it the full the full element way wouldn't.

Make that ship so much.

There's a lot of unsung heroes that need their dues. And then the reason why I.

Think SAG is such a good example of of of a type of union is because SAG is whatever you give to give into SAG, you get out of SAG. So that allows everybody at every level of hip hop to be a part of this union. Wow, SAG even has and I mean again, I don't know one hundred percent. I'm not a scholar. I actually just joined SAG recently. But they have housing for like be actors that never made it big in Hollywood that when they become homeless, if they become homeless, they can live in these homes.

Thank god.

Oh wow.

But you know, as long as they their dudes were, you know, they had they were members cer certain amount of time. So I think that SAG is a good thing for us to look and I think that that the chuck them.

Aligned with SAG in some way.

I think we need some But the problem is is that it's such a big undertaking that you need someone that's well schooled in finance and banking and insurance to be able and nobody.

Like we all talk it. Yeah, but to do the mechanics of that, that's it nothing to killer. Mike could do it. I love killing killing.

I love kill them, killed them all the money, go ahead.

I love killing Mike. Actually, when I've heard the name, I'm like, dam it's supposed to be a real motherfucker killer, motherfucker. I went to I went to a family of and he was there, and I sat down with this guy. This guy is off the hook, intelligent, like total, He's incredible. Man. I hope he was God. I hope he wins the Yeah, he's up for grounded.

I hope he wins that ship.

Intelligent jeim and really nice guy, really really nice guy.

Man.

I don't know if that name fit him. Don't killing Mike, but he's like nice Mike, you like that, you know what I mean? He was killing with the words calm Fano phantom except so.

Let me s because you know I'm black, but I'm half perto weecan two right? What was the first Puerto Rican you ever seen in the in the hip hop or they was always around?

Keep it Real?

DJ Charlie Chase.

The first Puerto Rican DJ ever see this see as you guys asked the stories.

You know, to go from here to there. It's ludicris, Yes it is. We just had little Chris Is on the shore as well.

Yeah, DJ Charnie Chase and the group he used to DJ for was the Cold Crush.

You know what I'm saying. Like he has a story.

I know I've been knowing him for decades. Yeah, we church is ready to come on drinking. He lives in Orlando. We gotta have him on.

You should have him on.

He got stories. I only got a smidget of what he is. Only he could tell his story. And that's.

Dominicans, he said, none of the Dominicans.

You ain't gotta get him.

No problem appreciated.

Oh my god, because yeah, yeah, yeah, what's up?

But now listen, man, let me just tell you man one more time, man, how much we appreciate this a lot of you.

Man, This is what we do it for.

You know, I called Scram Jones, I call my DJ, butch Rock who Scram Jones is my DJ. But you know they both kind of my DJs, and I wanted them to come in because I know how honored they are in the DJ for Fielder as much as I am as MC as honored to that.

There's always DJs.

They're the people that not only throw flowers at your feet, but they're even the ones that pick the flowers to throw your feet. And I want you to know how appreciated you are in hip hop and his totality, but in the elements of hip hop. That's why I wanted the other DJs to come and help me throw the flowers. And if you appreciate you are the Princess Munda. You understand I'm saying you are exactly you know, hip hop royalty.

You are.

I was.

There's no artists in the world, especially a hip hop artist, that you should be able to call and they not answer you within twenty four hours.

I've been, I've been blessed, and they do.

And we don't we know.

We know flash let's take let's give you flowers.

We know that. But I'm just saying. What I'm saying is, thank you so much.

If any artist is out there listening from a twelve year old artists to an artist that's two hundred and twelve, figure it out. If this man called you, drop your grandmama's pancakes out your mouth. You split the tick tack out your mouth, you unlace your Blissiyaga slippers, and you get to this.

Man whatever the fuck he asks you for. If he asks you to eat a honeybug and your nose, you know you do it.

If he acts you to clip your toenails with watermelon pills.

You do.

If he asks you to put oranges in your espresso and drinking his coffee mates, you do it.

There's nothing in this world that this man should ever need, axe or want, And as long as drink Champs are alive, we're gonna be there.

To help a.

Drink Champs is a drink Champs LLC production and association with Interval Presents hosts and executive producers n O r E and dj e FN from Interval Presents executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg.

Listen to Drink Champs on.

Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs hosted by Yours truly, dj e f N and n O r E. Please make sure to follow us on all our socials that's at drink Champs across all platforms. At the Real noriagon I g at Noriega on Twitter, mine is at Who's Crazy on I g at dj e f N on Twitter, and most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news and merch by going to drink champ m dot com.

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