Episode 357 w/ Chuck D

e FN? This middle Tamate crazy war happy hour makes up? Well, the brother that we are about to talk to today is beyond the icon. He's beyond the legend. Me and EFN, I think this is probably we both agree music because I don't think me and you kind of listening to the same type of music, right, But this case we are both super both raised both. This guy raised me.

He's my stepfather. You don't know it, but he has when it comes to this music business, when it comes to making music, it's I'm just listening to the music again today and I'm just sitting there, and I'm just like, this is timeless music, Like you can put out this the music that they were making then now and it's

still be relevant. When I say this is beyond a legend, when I say this is beyond the icon, when I say this is a person who fights for hip hop, who has hip hop on his shoulder and lives it, lives, breefs, breathes. This guy is a person that we have to give their flowers. We have to show the ultimate respect because he is exactly what we also strive to want to be. Like, in case people don't know who we're talking about, we talk about the one only motherfucker Chuck Wow, James Baumer

is right. Yeah. And then first I'd like to say apologies. Circling each other for seven to eight years unacceptable. Unacceptable. We just happened to circle and then pandemic, you know, for three years out of our lives. Yeah, I like to thank you Evan for giving me a drop on our rap station. I think during the rap station things for like fourteen years. It's Pacifical Networks, it's his own Apple. Think you oft the drop for me? I played all the time. Yes, thank you you my man, Thank you

for just being you. Yes, yes, and all that. I remember I was doing this show. I mean I was doing it actually a project. You know, the filmmaker Michael Moore, Yes, MICHAELA. So he was doing this project and this is like ninety eight and he you know, he's doing all these types of things. But yeah, well I'm bringing that full circle. So you know, he's in the city right in New York, and he said, Chuck, come on with me. What we're gonna do is we're gonna just like go into these corporations.

He's shooting the film, like we're going into corporations and and the places that got sweatshops but you know, like Nike and all these other plot spots. So he goes in the Nike town, right, and he gets like two buses of kids to storm Nike Town and say, yo, y'all are wrong, you know, I mean, and this might be the anti Nike ad, right, but and y'all are wrong. And he got like two bus loads of kids from Harlem to storm Nike Town on their sweatshops. Right. Wow.

But the bust on the way when it parks up, Super Thug comes back and it was my first time here the time and these kids like the teddest bust I want to bust with them up and what what what what they tore this bust up? I said, Nike's in trouble you So so let's let's let's get to up the beginning, right, how about you want to go?

But we said wasn't gonna work because because you know, um public enemy, right, like this was like a group that defied the odds, right, you know what I mean, Um, everyone was kind of at this time, everyone was you know, um uh most like and and you guys took a stance of having conscious like you know, um conscious rap like you know what I mean. We're old wrap that mattered right older. You know, we came from a different time.

And right now when I'm listening to the music, right when I listened to new music, no one is teaching, no one is is it's actually music now. There's there's plenty, there's plenty out there. You know. It's just that that this stuff is not going to float to the top without the concern of how much could get sold or whatever could get sold for a business proposition. And that's that's what it is. It's always business. This is an

entertainment business. It's like they do accounting by numbers. Man boy is better, you know, better is not always you know, um bigger. In my case, it's it's like you could be better with the quality instead of the quantity. But that necessarily is in business. But there's a lot of cats out there. I just did something with young brother named Consequence. You know, just did a video. He caught me.

He's an independent cat. He caught me at JFK said, listen, I could get this video in because you know today who listen with their eyes. You know, they're all screen agents, you know, so it's screen ag Yeah, screen just say screen screen age. And I didn't make it up, you know, you know, I got my antenna is up. So somebody said, yo, chuck, they screen agents. I'm like, thing, I'm a register. But

they listen with their eyes. So necessarily everybody kind of you know, if they got something, they got to put a visual to it. Consequence stop me at JFK. Him and this man got out boom on boom. It's a video clip and it's gone up, you know, viral whatever.

So they out there making efforts. I think the biggest difference Nori and Effing and James would probably agree with me, is that we're seeing the business take groups and individualize them, you know, because it's easy to like, like, it's easier to renegotiate on now cases a hip hop, renegotiate or renegotiate a contract with one person as opposed to a group. And that's probably the biggest difference because what we've seen

since the nineties as individuals instead of groups. So when you first aid groups, it was a group effort from the bomb squad to That's what w's with Griff James Bam, you know, to Flavor and myself. You know, me and Flavor man. I mean people are like, oh you guys man are so different. Yeah, you damn right, were different different, you know what I'm saying. It's like we come from a neighborhood Roosevelt Long Allen where everybody knew each other, small town on the outskirts of New York. All our

people's is from different areas in New York. My mother and father from Harlem on the fifty first Street, right, so you know, people moved out there. You're always going back and forth. We went to all the boroughs, maybe not stat Nilan back then that you won't take turning

into Charlette and I'm talking post forcing d right. But we went to check out everything, and so when it came to do something in hip hop, was taking all the collective efforts of people that did real things in our neighborhood and just like put it to Wax man, put it to rons because and now they would catch

their real things. Man. But then we go back being a little older too, because it wasn't miraculous for a cat in sixty eight and sixty nine to have common sense when sense was common you know what I'm saying. And then they realized that they had to do something against that, and so we decided to do like what would happen in our neighborhood and put it to Wax because hip hop was a beautiful thing. Man. Hip hop

is such a beautiful thing, man. And the seventies before it was Wax, I wish I could have sliced it. And what would Starsky Flash, Mellie mell DJ Hollywood. You know what I'm saying. What they were doing, Curtis Blow, what they were doing. It was like you looked up to them like like they were aliens men, And I said, wow, man, And that's what bit me man. So when we was a group, it was a total group effort. You know, this is Public Enemy is a culmination of a lot

of brilliant parts. They all we all, they all beautiful cats man, and like a big big family and the barbecue, you know, yeah people, oh man, you guys might have differences. Yeah, your damn skippy like family and neighborhood different. Damn it. It's like the original wood tang if you think about it as big as that, you guys with the bomb squad, and then that's one w's like yeah, everybody people rights,

like we won't give everybody in mind Republic Enemy. They know, a great mad everybody returned out differently for public and everybody had him like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah everything. Let me tell you all due respect to the rule because they are just amazing. You know, it's just amazing to this day. I mean, if I if I could be, if I could be another rapper, you would be the client. I would be method Man. Okay, I could see that.

I mean even method Man could read yo man, he could read the newspaper man, and and I play it. But yeah, so did your nickname bust the Rhams? Did you give bust the rams. His name, well, leaders of a New School was a was a bar and don't believe the hype. And we felt that you know, you know, and you know, uh, Custer was a five percenter just like a lot of young cats were at the time.

You know. It was the sort of the sea seeking and the knowledge yourself, right, you know, especially back then, it's like, okay, I don't know what was dope to be smart back then? Well, well now it's dope to be stupid. Well I don't know you yeah, yeah, I mean everything is coming at you right now. So we said, you know, just understand, you know, there's there's a certain lifestyle, social martial arts of being able to see what's coming.

And that's why it was always said quest for knowledge yourself. So at that particular juncture, you know, young people say, you know, it ain't gonna be given out there. So I'm I'm gonna seek. I'm gonna gravitate to the five percenter and still have a piece of myself, you know,

without it being a regiment you know, regimented situation. So you know, he would go back and forth from Long Island to Brooklyn, still claimed Brooklyn because it was yeah, yeah, well you know back then, it's like people were like claiming everybody or pretty much like many people because New York is a melting pot. When you study New York, it's a melting pot. Everybody's from from all over. Man. You when you study migration, that's the movement of our people.

So what youre doing with my water, sir, I I don't understand what's what's going on over so it don't be shy. And I am afraid man. As y'all get you know your thing, I'm gonna still be here for anyway. Yeah, so his name was like what Chillo ski? Oh that was a horrible name. Buster Well, well it kind of worked. But what we used to do. We used to be like, listen, man, I'm a big sports head man and go Knicks because I'm catching the game and big out, big shout out

to my man Cpter Fanchise for Knicks Fan TV. But anyway, I'm a big sports fan. So one thing about sports, you can't just come off the top of your head and say what's what This fact is fact and you got to go off the facts. So it was like, listen, man, we need something to represent the way you spit the way you guys rhyn man. But we got to rename y'all because man out there, man, there's a million rappers right now. Now, it's a trillion. Back then, it's like

you back then, back then, Yo man. That's why you can't tell a streamer yo man. You can't come. You can't come to a New Yorker and say, yo, man, this is that because it cat's been like I've been seeing Ryman for fifty years. Yo. It's so anyway, long story short, I'm like, yo, man, this cat plays football for Nebraska. His name was Buster Rhymes. I knew at that particular time, man, I said, damn if I could pick a new name. And I was kind of a

little established. Wait time out, what did you just his name was Buster Runs. There was a guy and he played, and he played later on for the Minnesota Viking. He has to hate Buster. I think Buster middle later on. Anyway, I said listen to it, and back then I was like, but why you blow in my mind? Right now, I'm like,

I got chills. Well it's documented, so I said, listen, Chiller, Ski's not gonna work you, Buster Rhymes, And that's what your name is of course you get the side the side eyed at the times, like nah, I'm not feeling this Buster around son, you Buster rhymes, y'aller leaders in new school. And Hank named um Brian Higgins, you know, big up the Higgins and Higgins Higgins brother Yo. He named them. Charlie Brown and Dinko d already had a fly and they're teenagers at the time. Matter of fact,

they was around. They was always downstairs and at the five ten recording studios. And when we first came up with the track of Rubbel without the pores, they were just hanging around. So every time we play, I remember them climbing and running up the side of the walls and they're like, sit your motherfucking asses down. And every time we go back to it, they go crazy and doing like they they like like they energies in their music. Yo.

They they like transforming. Their bodies were bending and ship running up the ceiling and I'm like, we got something here, you know what. But I know he always comes to me and I'm like, Buster, listen, man, you your old man, yo. You my fault or you know you stop it, stop it. Our job was our job is like listen, public enemy we servicemen, we service. This is our military man. We don't take the claim and any credit individual e man, this is what we do. We love the art form.

Were just like you know, and I'm not even oh, this is a fifty year hip hop. I'm not Oh I'm sixty two, I ain't it or you know, in my sixty thirty year, I ain't it. Oh something fifty years old. So I'm just like I remember when it was on a tricycle. Yeah, I know, you know, I'm you know, I'm not in all of it. I've seen it on a tricycle. Just don't want to see people

driving into a ditch, that's all. So so I'm saying, you know, we're servicemen and we give things, as Griff would say, So that's that's the thing is trained mental. But the same thing in sports, right you know, young ca they got talent, you want to manifest that into a skill and then you want that skill to work for them, so they do their thing. Because you know this this fifty years of hip hop, but every five years is a generation. So there's ten generations in hip hop.

Ten generations. I mean look from you know recorded wise, right, Well, you got the first generation seventy three to seventy eight. Then what you got seventy nine to eighty four. That's the first five years of recording. You got eighty and

four to eighty nine. Okay, you got eighty nine to like ninety four, then you got ninety five to like you can kind of see changes in Yeah, So every generation got their thing, so they got their ways and and if you can find like comment denominators to teach them how to do them better or not even better

because artist subjective. Man, a lot of people aren't studied in the arts, so a lot of times they put it in a competition mode without saying, well damn, you got license to ill as an art you know, so they's not teaching the art awards, teaching the war of art, right. Yeah, we just had the Isley Brothers on right and they

spoke about um uh, fight the power. Yes they're making that record, and it made me also think it was like fight the powers is saying to fight, you know, against the establishments the regimes that when they made that record. This is what I'm trying to say, how is that record still relevant to this day? Right now? You can still their virginal your Vergi and it's goodness because it's not yea to fight the bout Why the fun were still gonna fight things is Nina Simone once said that

artists should speak in the time in which they lived. Damn, that's pretty and fight the powers. One of those things you don't at the time. You know, you have all these companies and they they in our neighborhood, but they're not giving back. They're not doing anything for the neighborhood. You you you most of the time, and this and this is crazy. We're the athletes. You go to our schools.

Some of the topic, especially in Florida. I grew up here in Pojokee, Florida, right, and some of the top athletes. But these companies that they go to they ain't building nothing. They ain't giving back a community center or rec center to keep them off the streets. And that was one of the things that you know, we understood at that time. You got to speak into the times in which you live.

And I think when Nina Simone said that, that was that was a pivotal time, you know, because these generations they get lost and and right now they keep it. How you gonna be a boy at thirty five. You know, you're a man and they're keeping they're dumbing down rat. Really that's that's that's what I'm saying. I said, you guys, I said, you guys are DM on Twitter lamm Twitter. But it showed a great example of a young cat.

I don't know where they was at, but his name was Ali and young young Cats was in the streets and they had beef. But of course something that's lifted into the style of everybody capturing everything, so it's like you got bystanders now trying to document, but it's become this other thing. And he stepped in the middle of it as a slightly older head. Maybe he was ten,

maybe fifteen years older than them. And you know, I mean, I'm not going to reiterate everything in the video if I could, but I'm just like saying that that example of stand up is what happened all the time, because it's it's standing up with love and whatever you do and approach anything, you know, you gotta you gotta approach with love. Man. That's why sometimes in the business, you know, Quincy Jones, mister Quincy Jones, he says, you know, like

you know, it's straight up, you know, the artists. Art artists love and introducing the conversation with especially you know young men in the street, all that he's got to do it with love. But so his business is happening. You know, once money comes in, God walks out the room. So the love. Yeah, anyway, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta represent you know, um a lot of the times, you know this is the crown iconic. Of course, of course I gotta take because I gotta show my generation.

My generation took these off. You know what I'm saying. But I would say that I leave one another thing anhing, No, no, no, no, It's very cool to stay in your lane. Catch just like coming to me. I said, Yo, man, I ain't my lane. I got love for it, but ain't as long as it's your lane. The problem is people trying to jump another lane are uncomfortable for them. Bro listen, I ain't trying to peel that nothing. I ain't trying to sell anything. I'm actually you know, my team's always like, dude,

you need to sell. I'm like, I'm in it for the art. They saying, I'm It's the opposite of maybe in big respect, out the Jay and everybody I'm not a businessman. That's real. I've never heard nobody. I am an artist. I'm an artist since nineteen sixty. You know, artists shorts for artificial it's not real. It's a facsimile

of the life that we see and leave. But but that's my choosing, you know, I think when it comes down but I think, well, I think when it comes down to the business, it's like you only could do so much for yourself as an individual, but how much you know, like this this team around you. You you work and you strive to go forward, to evolve and all that for them to be able to come up

and grow. And I've been very fortunate, and we've always had bumps in the road because you never seen me out kid yo, by this, by that, by that, there's nothing against that. But but we've been um as as black folk and even others involved with us, you know, like employable for amongst ourselves for like what thirty five years, thirty six years, thirty six don't think for yourself because a lot of times people are like, oh, man, you're getting this, You're getting us. Not man, I gotta think

for the totem pole of people are coming up. How do they make a living, how do they get their first house? You know what I'm saying. That's the theme of what this should all be about. It's no knock for anybody that doesn't have that thing, because because we're all individuals with human beings, there is a human glitch. But I'm not the one to figure it out. I'm just not in the business and making black folks look bad. I'm just in and I'm saying I'm not in that business.

And there's this you know, there's business is out there that thrive on it ever since what shackles slavery both you know what I'm saying like that, But i mean, let's let's let's be clear, right, you guys had major success, and what success comes you know, all the other parts of the world, Like how come I've never heard be involved in like conspiracy scandal like and but obviously there

was it was around. I'm thinking that we've been one hundred and sixteen countries, one hundred and sixteen I'm sorry, I'm making some noise of that. Well, by the way, let me just let me just be clear. By the way, let's just be clear, I didn't even know there was one hundred sixteen countries. I didn't even know that twenty two. Now, that's how that's I. I thought I had success just now like that just hurt me. Success I didn't even

though it was two hundred countries. Success is relative. Bro, you're very success who you've been to one hundred and sixteen countries? Yeah, But but I just strow it out there. I understand this. I'm gonna just s throw it out there. But look, there's people out there like Master aceh like a lot, I mean Ace out there is always living somewhere else in the world. This is a truck d

you got over some cholch. But the thing about you're invited to go to these places and whole school of where we came from is that you're invited to go to the places, leave an impression, make a path for others to come in and romp shit out because I mean, listen, the positive thing and this to that whatever the number one goal, as we're taught by our master teacher, Dougie Fresh, right right, look at Dougie Fresh as well. Fresh, leave

that fucking stage fucking destroyed. Yes, leave destroy that stage with rap and music and hip hop. We'd be like, no, we didn't make appeal in music. Matter fact, we made music at the same time, like we're trying to make you not like our music. So when you see us, you'd be like, what the fuck is this? You know? I mean it's sort of like that crazy ass heavy metal attitude, like like the groupies outside. Yeah, everybody's everybody and this part of the world, man, the South, you're

in an inner team of business. You know that, you know, the whole the whole thing. I've been telling people all my life. Be like, oh man, I didn't think you were so engaging. I said, dude, I've been in hating the business. I'm not a preacher. I don't have no churches, man, you know, I don't write just or rhythmic dissertations. But I'm saying that I am in the entertainment business. Hip hop, rap music is my thing. That is my religion. I'll

go around and stomp out a ball. I would definitely back in the day, I'll be like, listen, I would have to ask you like a lines of morning we like when I hit that stage, it's like you're gonna come and tear this ship up, Like but yeah, yeah, that's all the big I would see lines of morning with that vein in the savage. Yeah, coming to the court, I was like, and go chake that stage and chew it up. But you know you gotta get taught that and when you first start and and big up to

my man Paul and say, uh he in Possaic. He saw our first show. Yeah, he saw our first show in Prosaic, New Jersey. Number one. End up in nineteen eighty seven, people droping up for the baste boards April first. I got ten years old, was ten years old Capital Theater Number one. You start out right, and I couldn't you know number one. You're trying to like yo, like I'm trying to kno fuck up, you know what I'm saying. And then the Beastie Boys that second show we did

with them, we're in an arena. Were in the arena like like you know, like the same spot I'll be seeing Cash play basketball like we played Providence the second show arena and I'm like, whoa like like the whole the audience looked like a pizza, like a like a Calico rug. Right, how do you why do you and just make pizza sound bad? You don't see nothing. And then all of a sudden right, you know, you know,

I was getting through that tour nervous. I was nervous my whole first year, and you know we finally nervous. You're talking about nineteen eighty seven and the Latin Quarters with Mellie Men get that story later, listen. So I'm so nervous. And one day I've seening Mike D. He was like totally drunk, right, and he did his verses and he like he he just fell out, but he still was on the floor laughing. And I was like,

you could do that. Anything goes. Unless I saw Mike D did that, I loosened up because I'm like, damn, anything goes on the stage if you could kind of like still stay with it. And it was three of them, and that loosened me up like crazy. So um yeah, man, It's like, you know, I'm a firm believer. You're owner to what you think, but a slave to what you say. You know what I'm saying. So a lot of times people are like, oh, man, watch out for valad, watch out for drink Chace man, yo man uh sound bites

and clicks. I'm like, you're owner to what you think, you slay to what you say, Yeah, sick. But by the way, by the way, I didn't say that the fuck out of here. Yeah, listen, listen, you the saw of what you think exactly. Listen. The easiest thing. A lot of people blame alcohol, and it's not alcohol. Alcohol just enhances. Yes, it rolls it out, you know. And

and I'll get to that in a second. But like I said, like, you know, the easiest thing for people to deal with it saying fuck, I don't know you know what I'm saying. You're gonna take press. But see here we in the game. And let me tell you public interview if you say all that, we're the first to take on an interview with a vengeance myself, Griff James. There was no music press at all for black artists in the eighties, you know, Prince and Michael Jackson wasn't

fucking with no interviews. So and then after Rundem scene got accused of starting riots in in nineteen eighty six. No, and yeah, they got accused for starting riots because there was a big conflict Crisson the Bloods nineteen eighty six, Long Beach, California. They had some some and the press didn't even know what to call it, so it must

have been run DMC. So I win. You know, I just kind of bloods holy shit, yeah, because you know, like they had factions and the beginning of the crypton bloods And I'm not gonna be an expert on this, but you know, at the beginning they were neighborhood guardians, right. But then just like in New York, all of a sudden the nineteen eighties, which is R and B, Reagan and Bush, right, they come in and all of a sudden in the neighborhood include now neighborhood Long Island, there's

an influx of guns. There's an influx of drugs out of nowhere, right, And this is on the tail end or the seventies. And y'all saw the movie Un American Gangster and stuff like that, in the whole Nicky Bad Lucas Starry and all that. But also that was tied into other situations. You could go into the CIA and all that stuff. Pretty sure, I mean, you got the name Noriego Snowfall. But but but like there's no accident.

So in the eighties when this came up, you know, all of a sudden, in Los Angeles, what used to be the neighborhood guardians. You know, hey, look, you don't come to this turf the script's blood. Then all of a sudden, you're fueling the next generation the young heads. That's that's like okay, I mean yo, I'm getting this money and old head ain't got no money. So now money is the divide line. God walks out the room. So they turned into a different army with guns where

like boom boom. So it's like where where this thing came from? In eighty six, they got everybody, everybody listening to rap music. Kda's the radio station out there. They got everybody in the spot and just happened to be the meeting place where cats convened and something broke out and they blamed in our rap music in nineteen eighty six, that's what I was saying. And I told Bill Outler, I said, you know what, man, I'm ready to do this public enemy thing because I'm gonna be the motherfucker

that they ain't never gonna see before. Now. I was trained to like do interviews and give interviews and shit like that being a sports fan, so that one thing led to another and the birth of public Enemy. We would be getting large expanses of interviews man all over the world, because I said, Yo, what we have is something y'all don't know about, and we know everything about you. That's the same thing like and martial arts that that these guys do. It's like arts. You're gonna start smiling.

He rode to James. I mean, they they they've been there since minute one. They used to do the security of our gigs with myself, Hank, Keith Shockley, you know, and you know we used to do the gigs flavor myself, Keith was on the radio station doing mixes and stuff like that. So we all just together terminator asks of course, you know. So we bought it all together to be this one thing. And and I'm just finished off the Public Enemy thing. It's like I said no for two

years doing Public Enemy and won't do records. We wanted to be what Deaf Jam was building, and we wanted to be like the motown of hip hop because I mean myself, Bill, Stephany, Hank, we wanted to like trade you see, like what came out of it, like busting them. It was like, you know, and we have more to come out. So I was a key development person. I was like the Smokey Robinson man. I would work with the artists, arrange them. We're naming it, do the art

stuff like that. We would all put you know, cats in a gig. We would treat them right when they come along outland. It's like, man, we'll bring you out, we'll treat you like superstars, and we'll send you back home safe boom. One of our biggest groups that we always had a ball is promoting stets of Sonic was Yeah, man, my man, Daddy O is like thick up the Daddy O. He's like the you know, the guru professor Daddy, like three thousand haircuts. Yeah, always a different sided. Mean to

take it there with it. But I'm saying that that when you go around the world, the number one thing, number one thing to wherever you're at is know the law. Because when you know the law, then you can operate on figuring out it's flaws. When you have no justice to fight the law, you can't fight the lad not knowing the law. Right and then and then expect some some clap back on that. That was a Black Panthers.

Black Panthers was college students, neighborhood activists that knew the law and use the law right and still us you know what I mean. Listen man, the community is always full of thinkers and doers. You know, you need thinkers, but they could come up to a certain point. You need doings, but they just can't just just be doing it. Yeah, so you need a combination and then and that's what we was a combination thinkers do is move and shakers. But also let's let's not get it twisted. We're in

the entertainment business in hip hop. When you're trying to give young people something to do, we're just trying to be active. We trying to be motivating and give young people something to do by enlightening them and not look down on them. Although there's a lot of things you can look down on, but you gotta look across there and say, listen, man, how do you think it's gonna You know, work long term is a good look. You

gotta ask them questions, you gotta engage on that. But that's a lot of work, man, it's a lot of work. But hold you mentioned going back to you saying that you wanted to be the motown, you wanted to produce and development. Was that chance one of the first chances when when Cube, that opportunity came for you guys to produce America's most wanting And how did that all come about? Cause I cannot cannot because that was a marriage of

great worlds. Let me let me just say something. And I watched um math Hoppa and them talk about this fantastic show. So what happened was on there? They said that Smith and Weston at one time, Smith and Weston got down with Tupac at that time where Tupac was hated on the East Coast. So at that time, I'm going to be honest as a fan, I was not into this music industry at all. I was thrown off a little bit too because how easily the ice Cube

was accepted in the East Coast. Because I didn't feel this is me as a person, this is this is not Nori, this is Poppy in Left Frack City. I felt that. I felt, I felt the West Coast would not do that to any other artists other than Public Enemy, Like we wouldn't be accepted in the West Coast. But when ice Cube came here, it was like all arms. In my opinion, this my humble no no industry, no industry, no industry. Here, we're gonna remember we didn't have Instagram

back then. We didn't know that, We didn't know that you had a relationship, So the media wasn't the same. Like people discovered America's most wanted and in that moment discovered that he left n W. That's how I, as a kid, open it up and I see bomb squad And here's the crazy thing about that. I'm sorry, I'm started making this question social, but no, Well, here's the crazy thing about that. Here's a crazy thing about that. I was so much an n WA fan at that time.

I didn't want to accept anything that was going to but I was such a fan of both. To see that marriage. I was listen, is like the best the country. The whole was talking together, and I think the night this is love this. But Q came to the show we did at the Palladium. Man, what was eighty eight? Listen? I'm I'm the only reason I'm a fact checker because all I did all my life as being a sports fan is watched this hip hop ship. And I was a fan of everything everything from from before records. I

was a fan. I didn't want to do it. I just wanted to be a fan. I wanted to do Flyers. That's why I gave you a book I did. I did the best Flyers. I wanted to compete and bust everybody in the world. And Flyers go to the gig Geant supper Storm go home knowing I got my hip hop in. It's a rebel type of thing with me, this ship man, we need the seventies with let's ever listen. I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna go off tangent. I was in high school in

seventy six and seventy seven. Bro I graduated seventy seventy eight. You ain't have a Gumby Niaga up. You had, you know, I mean you you you had to go. I mean, I'm in college in nineteen seventy eight, Broad. Although I tried to be rebellious and wear kicks, sometimes they'd been like, nah, we ain't fucking having them kicks up in here, And you had to make adjustments. You know, I wasn't wearing playboys, but you know I was platforms or whatever getting you.

If you you didn't want to be a wallflower man with the fuck you standing on the wall, it's dance music. Man, this ship is popping. DJ's is rocking and stuff, and so you would standing on the wall, and and and and girls is in the spot when you're gonna get on the wall. And if you ain't one of those big afro do to hustle pretty boys, you better fucking have some fucking game. Better you get off that wall

to make it happen. That party is trying to throw your hands and had shit like, you know, find one groundwe get behind one, let's go, you know what I'm saying. So the DJ's and the MC was like trying to get the party moving. If you ain't moving, security problem, and and and when you have the party not popping, especially if it's lopsided on population, you got penitentiary six. Man, it's a security problem. See today they spend a lot of money on compunity, right, a lot of money on security.

Back then, your ship had to be yo, your ship had to be so popping that the most thug, the super thug, got a super thug be like, you know what, I ain't trying to suck this party up, and nobody else better not fuck this party. That's making sure. But he was moving right, and then your crap flashes them wasn't lying you was a whack DJ now only were you might get shot at motherfucker's taking your ship. What you're gonna do? Oh, police stopped this. You know, DJA

is better be lucky. I'm trying to tell you now. You didn't want that problem, man, You didn't want that problem. Also taking black people's money, man, it was a you know, I Hack told me a story once man that he went to this fight in Brooklyn, man, and the act was so whacked. Man. They robbed everybody at Believing Cats and Cats and Brooklyn robbed everybody upon leaving the venue

coase to the act group of God. So yeah, so yeah, My point is before you took me to the dance borld, like thank you, thank you, because let me just reiterate what my point. You wanna take me to another tangent? No, no, it was it was it was something that was had never been done before, Like the East Coast wasn't easy. Number one, you from the four boroughs at that particularly chime,

four Burroughs and Queens is barely hanging on. Damn. I'm point in Queens nineteen sixty all right before forty years before Shake Steadium, the people he invaded Flushing, Yeah, exactly so. And also I live I lived in I tell I tell this Molly and all the time Nas and Cormega. My family lived in Queensbridge the first two years. That makes yeah, queens big after Cormeica. Yes, we got to get um Mega on here. He's having some issues with his label right now. We were like him to express it.

He's a beautiful cat He's a great, beautiful cat man. Guys, come on big, Happy birthday launch Professor, DJ Premier. Damn it, God, damn it lost professor. Yeah, all right, yeah, how does this call happen? He just calls you out the blue. But number one, we come out with Yo brummers to show in nineteen eighty seven we are crue, we ain't from the city and we in car culture. I mean, you're going to get yours as the first single released, I guess and I'm I'm I'll give my love to

my ninety eight Oldsmobile. Really I had a ninety eight Oldsmobile because yeah, the nineteenth posse those were the kind of like thugs in Long Island made, but they all drove ninety eight old Mosobile. Ninety eight the crazy thing about them. Everybody used to come out to Roosevelt, which they called the Harlem a long island, right, and they had the Roosevelt Roller Ring and casts to come from Queens and Brooklyn, and the ninety eight Posse was from Himpstead, Roosevelt,

New York. No, that's for the OUTCA. Now that that sparres another level, okay, right, But the ninety eight Posse, man, they were so unique that they would put their they would put their cars together. They were all mechanics. They would rob you. They would just say, you don't want

to get on the wrong side of them. Matter of fact, Listen, our gigs had standoffs between the ninety eight Posse and the s one ws was a security and then finally they came together saying that anybody did come to our gigs, you better not fuck up, because didn't it. It was almost a war with him one one night in Hempstead,

New York at the Korean ball Room. Yeah. Well, anyway, they ended up being together, like you didn't want to mess up one of our events because you know, you know, you come out there mess up our event, there ain't nothing happening out there. They ain't like we ain't got things like Queens and Brooklyn. You mess up with event out there some problems. So they even got together the super Thus and also the s run W so you came out there. It was the unbelievable experience. Long story short,

um ninety eight posse uh. They would put their cars together, they would cut off the highways so you couldn't get up out of there, and they you know, so they they were pretty much a theme. So bum Ruster the Show was our first album, and it operated around something similar. You know, Los Angeles. You you ain't catching the bus out there. You ain't got no car man, especially you were costing a torrance or the outskirt places cost the city. Man,

you ain't getting nowhere. So they understood there were similarities, and you know and us and Iced Tea, who was out there. In a matter of fact, he was the first big up to my my bro bro Iced Tea

because every every year Iced team makes history. You know why because he's the eldest and he gets in those red air So Iced Tea when he turns the age like sixty four, sixty five, I think sixty five, he's like, man, no rapper ever been there, And then ten years later he was saying, oh so so turns sixty Iced team did this intend doing the heavy metal rap and rappe and doing such a great person a TV twenty five

years and all. I never told me no like because I'm always trying to he He's the Kiss the ring god Father for real. So in Wa when they came out their first record, they did what Wu Tang did, like what eleven years later they had a whole bunch of cats out there, rhyme and little cruise, and they grouped them all together. If you look at n WA in the posse, they wearing clocks from the back of ye I have the feel and feel Fresh crew. Yeah yeah,

they wearing clock yea yeah yeah yeah yeah. At the Easy Old at the end of eighty seven, we started doing you know shows and they started saying, oh Nwa because they had dope Man and stuff like that. Q

Easy had already come out. Easy already came out. Um d Oc was from Exist, but he was part of a crew out in Texas and mccola Records was an independent record label and actually it was a record label from a pressing plant they had in La just kind of took all the rappers at that particular time, and then that time at eighty seven, like grouped them together and that was in Wai was an attitude, but it meant a lot of crews, Raman Prince, all of all the founders, Linzo and all those cats man and they

had this scene out there and this was put in together. And then we toured a couple of times, and that's when I first started, you know, knowing Dre knowing Q who basically looked up to me and said, well, I got my style off for you. And I was like, well, I got this style off for school e D. And

I talked to schools. They pick up the school D my bro bro school D right, yeah legend yeah yeah man so so and I told him, well, I got that style off for school Man eighty six and you know schoolies, I got that ship off a mel Wow.

So were fraternity And although you know, like even after us in the nineties and the two thousands, people don't think that this lineage, this lineage, yeah, so Q, you know, at that particular time, was like, you know, bro Bro, They're coming up in wa and then we come up with Takes the Nation millions and this is funny were playing Vegas and NWA's on the show, and uh, you know, I get the I get the test present from Glenn Glenn Freedman, who actually is the photographer who did The

Nation's cover, though much the show iced Tea. In fact, the first time I met iced Tea in La, he looked just like Ron Paye's cover, except for Darlene wasn't in that in that cover people Africa, It's pulled up in that porch. It was like, yo, I'm gonna give you the rules when you come out to LA and stuff like that. But Glenn Friedman was a photographer and so he was then let in Las Vegas when we played and he had to pick the the takes the Nation album and I'm getting a test present and I'm

looking at it. I'm like, what the fuck is you know, because we're in an art direction down to the team. Glenda Little ain't know because he'd be like the drop shadow ain't right, and Glenn be trying to get a royalty off your off the art work. I'm like, yeah, wait, wait. Glenn would take a photo and he tried to go to depth gym and said, I want to royalty off of the off of my photo. They was like, no,

that's unprecedented. But he tried. He tried, right, you know, like like they say, if you're an asking then you don't know if people gonna get it. So I remember Easy and Dre also being in the wings, and I handed it to them and they're looking at this shit, like what the you say? Easy? Easy? And we were in the same corpridor matter of fact, matter of fact, Mike Tyson was in the same corridor because I was

getting down and I saw John Little from HUDDI. Here's a funny thing, right, you know, John Little Man pick up the John Little from Houdini and also ex sols to my master teachers too. So Mike, Mike, this is this is Mike Tyson nineteen eighty eight, Joy Wheel, John Wheel right, and John lit is like, hell right, he does. My name is John Little. He wasn't telling much that John Wheel, John Wheel. John Little was like, that's the same fifty four four nights in the road and Mike

Tyson hung out with us. God damn it. So man. So yeah, so that at that same corridor, I'm passing that Easy and Dre and then of course QUBE's you know, bro,

bro coming up on that. The developed in the next thing Boom next year, straight out of Compton, which was more like you know, like that East Coast fast speed muscle and and and Dre was a one man, two man operations in there, but he could do all the ship that Hank myself, Eric Vietnam, Sadler, Keith, you know we all in a room, you know, doing some shit. This is a one dude that do this ship with an engineer and straight out of Compton. So and Wa

comes up does that thing. Then again, like I said, groups, you know, you got issues, you got schedules, you got conflicts. And and Q wanted to do a solo record and said that, you know easy and Dre told him to wait maybe a year or two and back in them days man a year or two. Yeah, man man rip van winkle Man. I'm saying so so um Q decided to, you know, do it with us. And it is a key statement right here. In nineteen eighty nine, NWA played Apollo. It was there that night. Okay sold out Yo man,

New York roasted them. It was like you talk about I want to make sure roast no, no, no, anyway you want to put don't say, well, God roasted them. And I told them downstairs, I said, listen, you guys are from three thousand miles away Los Angeles. Miles will be Neptune man, not New Jersey, Neptune out of space. You gotta go through this in New York. Trust me. I'm from Long Island, man. I went through this shit. Next year, if you show preseverance, New Yorker want to

be shown that that that you get up. So I don't want to act like what's that word means? That mean? I keep going. I I ain't got a bunch of big words. Because anyway, you know, like I said, next year, you got to show that you could come back and do so somebody, because this is New York, this is Apollo. They they've been the man. They've been passing coffins out of here for the last seventy years. They bow themself right, you know, yo back. Yeah. Man, it's hurts waiting on

the back of the Apollo every year, every show. Then so so sure enough, Ice Cubes comes back the next year after we do the America's Most one because he had conflict, and then um oh this is after them. Well we did America's Most for America's You did the joint with Big Daddy Kane Burn Hollywood Burn. Well, how it happened. We was in Green Street recording and me and Kine have been circling around, just like me and the Drink Champs, but the studio, Me and me and

Kane were circling around. Yeah, I'm gonna do this record. Yea, I'm gonna do this record with you. Yeah, We're circling. Were circling and found rendezvous where we are the same place at the same time. So Kane came down to do this record, Burn Hollywood Burn. And that's my sentiment and my feelings to this moment, like Burn Hollywood Burn. I'm never gonna have conversations in the Hollywood boardroom. I'm gonna work with a team and they're gonna have those conversations.

I'm about the art, right, So we got this thing Burn Hollywood Burn, and Qube was was being on the couch because I first sent them to like whoa go. You know, I don't want to get a MIDI a conflict. That's the group thing, yo, Yo, Can y'all produce my Albu the brom School. I'm like, I'm not get in the middle of that hook up with Sam Sever and he talked to Sam Sever and I think I sent them to somebody else. I was trying to get producers for for Cube. Cuba was like, man, fuck that, I

want y'all to do my shit. I was like, it was right, we don't want to get in the middle of that, not even when we kill our kids. A lot they got just like it's all about what alliances. Ye, we're out with new True Party. Man, you know what I'm saying. Boom boom boom, You'll figure it out. We got your your blessings in the back whatever. We're sovereign nation, right,

so show enough. One thing led to another. Um. Hank thought it was a challenge once he was kind of told like, you know, like it might be all right, and then Hank was like, Yo, let's go for it. Let's let's do this. And already we already had to knock out Fear of a Black Planet and then Hanking, Eric and him was finishing up the BBD album. But but did y'all change the sound like to make it more No, because Hugh came in with what he wanted. Wow, Sir Jenks was with him and they worked with Eric

Vietnam Saler. We just showed them, like the first thing I did with Q when I went to La and we finally agreed, I said, fuck, all this is that, the bells whistles, Pyro and all this stop by that CBS shot, pick up a ninety nine sent notebook. I said, that's where it all starts. Bro, simple things. I'm not teaching Cube anything. It's like, listen, don't don't try to do shit overnight. Don't try to change overnight, and do what we do. You can morph there on your own,

trying not to say the same thing twice. You're not making an extended single. You're making an album. Make some records that people like, but make a couple of records that some shit. Hey, Cube took it to the hill. He's like, you love to hate, you know what I'm saying.

It's like, you know, just don't always try to please because hip hop is also you know, if you have a boardroom or record company, they're always trying to get motherfucker's just be on their knees and like love me, love me, and hipop has gotta also be like, no, I don't give a fuck if you don't like none of this go to the opposite. Yeah, my job, my job. But see, to me, it's been like almost to a point of like like disservice, Like I'll be like, I hope you hate the ship, so I an beat your

ass with the ship. I mean, there was nothing appealing about public enemy music, nothing, nothing kind of public. It was like it was just a total contrarian thing. It's like, we want you to not like this shit, but we we leave the spot because we said loving and hate is the same emotion, right, you know what I'm saying. Once you once you're flatlining and you're in the middle of the road, and you kind of pleasing, you kind of not pleasing. I don't want to fit nobody, and

you're in the middle. You unnoticed, especially back then you playing with a bunch of acts. If your ship ain't Poppa you sent, you're gonna be sent back home. And and then being sent back home is the worst thing. I remember a couple of groups got sent back home and they were kicking rocks in the summertime, man, and like New York is not the place to be if you know, if Boper is out there on the road

and on the tour. So one thing led to another long story short about que did America's Most wanted um he felt I had to I had to leave out at the end of the productions and head off on tour. But in twelve weeks the bomb squad did you have a black planet? They'll bid the vote wow, And then America's Most won it. I didn't know Bellot and then the Cube was staring into the stratosphere after that, and then once Cuba and that was that. The production was

genius on America. No, but once Cuban Jenis got it and that particular style, man he came out with that kill Kill, that will ep and my favorite record the Cube was jacking verbe. Was there any slack from the East Coast for like just accepting a West Coast artist at that time it was a low interpretation, but you know, like at the same time, it's gotta asked what that word me. I'm sorry it was at you. We don't get but still still the advantage see us get in sidewinder,

it's good a side comment for a second. Bring me back though, bring me back. But in this country, the arrogance of like when they look at people who are multi lingual, they look at them the lesser than when most people in this country no fucking one barely one one language. They don't even speak the King's language. So when they're like, oh, yeah, I got this work of working for me, but they don't know no English, the fuck they know four languages. Man, they have an advantage

over you, and you have a disadvantage. That's only I was growing up. I always thought black was advantage. You know why, I said, shit, I know everything about everybody, but they don't know shit about me. I'm gonna you know, I got I got them. I'm gonna go wherever I want to go. It's like almost being on the court, but knowing that you could go on both sides of both hands. It's like like they didn't stopped me to the hoop. And that's why we try to say, yeah,

this knowledge, wisdom and understanding. You're not gonna get into that microwaves, but you could get it like to the point where it works to your advent. Now everything people like, oh, man, I know who black people are because all I got I got nothing but rap songs and so therefore, yeah, but you're getting you're getting one side and you think you know us, well, you don't know my mom's struggle. You don't know my aunt's you know, middle name and

stuff like that. So let's grow together and stop act like you know everything about us before you selling market to us. Oh, we got them figured out, because what's going to happen is that they're going to say, well, you know, we ain't got you, oldhead, old gee, you on the way out. We got your grandkids anyway, because we have programmed them to go where we want them to go and believe what we want them to believe. That's why you always have to have the legacy of

at least old jeans. They can't be measured by by money. The money is a construct man, just like race is a construct. But we have to understand the truth in the matter is that the darker people of the Earth and these present times and talking the last two under three hundred years, we have been a disadvantaged and ostracized for different reasons. And when we got to come up out of that and order in order the quest to just say, accept us as a part of the human race.

There's no no such thing as alien from another planet. But it's a come up and we deserve the right to come up and be respected. So m you know, you could throw some some some some what when you call it lie in the wash? You know what I'm saying, l y E and the wash, And it could corrupt a lot of different things. So it's always you know, what's constant elevation, man, That's all it's about. So anyway, what was the part I said? I didn't want to getting lost? Q okay Q. So it's a simple fact

of the matter. Q went into the stratosphere. After that, he came to New York And when Q played the Polo in nineteen ninety after the Boy Man, he came back. Man, imagine what. Yes, I'm surprised Apolo was still standing man, because he did. When I forgot what it's his set, I forgot what it said was Jacko fin Beings came in ninety one. I'm gonna tell you how I know New York was probably probably the hardest place to play ever.

Was when I got a call from Big Boy from Outcast one time and Big Boy said, can you come with me to the tunnel? And I said why. He was like, I just want to New Yorker to stand And they were ten million at the time. I don't even think I was gold, so I didn't even like I didn't know the the needs and older was was just there a big boy and we just stood on stage. But New York would not throw a bottle or no, not because I was actually present, I didn't know that

was a cheek call. Yeah, originally didn't matter the big boy at Atlanta. If people from out of town knew that, they knew that. Listen, you know New York we just well crazy shit is I remember Jay telling me this story, and this is recently when we sat down with him and Jay said, Jay said, he said, I always um think about the out of towners, who out of towners think that it's New York that hates on them. He's like, no,

we hate on each other. He said, Biggie got throw on the same bottle that I got, and it looks like it's like but the al of towners don't know that. You know what I mean? And this is a long

song conversation that we have on drink chances. There's a lot of people thought that New York was arrogant, and what they didn't realize was it was just the attitude that we had to Well, I told you, because we have the debate that like for us in Miami, and I think other regions felt industry wise, I always say, it's not the people in New York. The industry that was centralized in New York was being very it was very New York centric too, and I'm talking about hip

hop wise. They weren't letting people in and that's what people were getting kind of angry the South. That's why you know the Jay Princes and the death throws and everybody started to come up to come back that and even cast statement. Yet one of the first, even an outcast statement when when when they um won the award, the South has something to say, it felt like they were saying New York ain't only it, Well, yeah, better they better listen Publican me was the first that actually

in the brain. The Noise Tour in nineteen eighty eight was the first group that not only we had to break the molde to break the mode was like everything up to them was groups coming out of New York on the summertime. You had to what the fresh Fest in the eighty four eighty five, I mean the fresh Fest Philling Arenastball Tour in nineteen eighty seven, and then before that you had Raising Hell in nineteen eighty six on dmc l cou J Beastie Boys, you know, boom

so they you know, everything was summertime, summertime, summertime. And eighty eight they had two tours at the same time. In the summertime you had the Dope Jam Tour, Eric b Rock Kim Big Up to Eric b rod Kim kol Mo d Big Up, the mold you know, iced Tea.

I mean that was like bam everybody. And then on the other tour was us run dmc Z, Jeff Fresh Prince, that's Will Smith for y'all some of you, some old niggas in here too, and also j J fad right, and there's two toy So at the end of that year, man,

we had so much like momentum. It was like we saying, listen, man, we could do a two in the winter time and they say, yeah, but groups is trying to gear up, and Allever I said, you know, we could do a two and a winter time and go to each and every market that got brewing groups and they market too, Shorts from the Bay, Hammage from the Bay, mix a lots from Seattle. You know. Luke is from down here. The craziest thing ever is seeing Luke put the dances

on the when w stands home. Wait, wait, come about what Luke had? He had? First of all, it's Luke the first of all for a big figure up to my bro, bro Luther Campbell. Luke Campbell. Let me tell you, Luther cab it was the first I'm only stayed the chief. He had the chicks turking on the security. We get to that story, right, me back to that muster. Campbell is the first celebrity house I have stayed in my

life downy in Miami. This Goopie Days. Um, this is the nineteen ninety it was you know that was about that was more like no, no, no, that was more like Luke, Luke's commander, Goopie Days. All right, So anyway, so listen, all right, So Luke I was doing this this DVD with him, right because before y'all twisted, but he was caught up in a political scale on the America's most wanted. So we was part of America's most wanted the censorship. Wait a minute, No, I didn't know

what America's most wanted it. Yeah, because because the law had you know, the law down here in Dade County had Luke up against the wall for censorship, but so he needed criminal So so yeah, man, did I take your ass? Yeah? It was just Luke moved so much music and cultural weight in the South. People like just like to say, oh man, Lucas booty and that's it. No, Luke, he did a lot, commanded the record industry because nobody wanted to South. Nobody wanted to South. It's like that

bunky ass keep that over there. Luke was the first celebrity house I ever stayed in, because I did the thing that night and I was like, I'll go to the hotel. Luke said stay at my house, you know, and the white woman comes out with tea and ship like that. I was like, what the fuck? You know, Like I'm looking around. It's like it was like, damn, they like British right, golf course, you know what I'm saying.

Golf course like the fun right, But you know, I mean Lucas the first people we met down here at down the Street, right, James James right, and he was upset about like, man, listen, I'm doing all this stuff down here in New York. Don't know this US at all. And me and Daddy O would be people like, come on in because the death jam thing didn't leave you passes. And then the thing about Luke, I said, he's also the first private jet we ever been on. Lest Let's

see what I tell you. He ran radio book pirate radio stations out of suitcases on top of roofs down here. I'm like, let me tell you. Listen, listen. Luke promoted us in the stadium full of fifty thousand with the old Miami Stadium with the Hurricanes and all the play the old Miami STATEUM fifty thousand heads up in there, right. We got to play a show the same night at the Omni in Atlanta. Luke says, listen, man, you fly out my private jet up there. I go up to

the jet. I'm like, what the fuck? Right? And it got the same logo that's on the record company on the record label. Yeah. I had to touch the plane like this. I touched on it, roughed the back. It's like what And we flew to Atlanta and headline that same night at the Omni they just called the Omni back in the day, And we did two gigs in

one day. And courtesy of Luke's private Brown Luke Skywalker plane. Now, the only thing that stopped Luke was once again they saw him coming because he had a whole area that nobody wanted. Come on. Wrap hip hopped in the South. Who the fuck wants Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, you know, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Luke got want them bumping ass and Luke would put out the tape and rule,

and then the companies wanted in. Later on. That was the blueprint for who but New York, Yeah, late later on, it was a blueprint for master Peak. Yes, but Luke and Luke got up where they they came after them like take the logo away, you know, like you know, I think what's his name, George Lucas and them was

like you can't you. I was like fuck, And you know, that type of shit happened, and then the Lord and then the government and all that other ship and then I was an opportunity for master P to come up in there. And still even master P capitalize on all those territories. Nobody went up by that time, around Nor's

ninety eight, the companies was like yeah, yo, man. Companies tried to make what Master Pa offer because they realized that the young man there's some gold in them Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, Hill Florida Hills. And they tried to make them a deal and Master P was doing so well. Remember you said like five hundred ads in the source. You know what I'm saying. He had his own record stores on

the West. They tried to make a deal with him, and he was like, yo, man, with the fuck, you know, you gotta come in they and they said, you know, we're gonna we're gonna finance your competitor there. And that's what money they financed his competitor should get real and then surrounded it. You know, this is the same old you know, and no disrespect to Cass money, but that was the game that the majors would play to destroy black businesses. You know, it's crazy. I'm gonna be honest

with you. I went to New Orleans around that time where Master P was the ship, and I wanted to do a record with a dude I think his name was Scott dug He originally bind up being on penalty and I remember me being in New Orleans and me identifying with the only other Puerto Rican person that was there. It was a girl. She had fronts on and she was poor Rigan And I said, wait a minute, well, I've never seen fronts at that time because we like like like New York. We excuse me, we had fronts.

We didn't have what they have, which whatever it was, that was the only different. I was like, what is that in your mouth? Pause? And I remember this day so perfect. I was. I say, I'm out there, I'm out here to meet with what what? What? What? What? What? I want to meet with no limit? I want to um. And I remember how saying to me, we on that cash money right now? And I was like what And I kid you not. It wasn't on the radio. It

was nothing. It was like how you just said they funded some totally different sh really like this, Yes, you know, we were, you know, it was like, wow, it's it's it's Jewish now now I remember it being pushed and it was Julie. It was definitely Jewish. It was almost like one of those like don't support this, support this or this label and you know what I mean, that's what you know. I mean, like I said, money to us, guy walks out of the room, but what it does,

and like it's the old game. It's the old game. It's like you can put black faces, you could pimp black faces, and you can put a black business out of business. But I think that, but I think also that this this ways to go about certain things. You. I think numbers is the soul of a robot, and the human beings have a post that we need to understand. Our mistakes are is our mistakes. But bigger is not always better. And sometimes you can make better and keep it like this and and and be able to drive

that small vehicle a long distance. Sometimes the big vehicles run out of gas. A better version of yourself in a more compact situation. And I think that's the beautiful thing about art, because you know it could be anything in license. You can license to ill. That's why that did the dude that did Delbert his name Scott Adams. I don't mean to be doing a reverse plug here, but he got caught in in in a scandal when he started coming off out the mouth of like stay

away from black people and all that. And I said, you know he had the license to ill as all of the if you just had Dilbert do all that people would have gave a fuck the minute you put your face on the camera and start talking to the mic, you out of your lane. Yeah, and you know what, you ain't nobody compared to your to your product. Your

character is the one you should have spoken to. That's your license to ill the minute you put your face on the camera, and that's everybody you know feels that now everybody's equipped when the lights in the camera actually comes on, yes, y'all, y'all see it. Sometimes you'd be like, you know, you think gotta get loosened up because they're be like, yo, man, they're on the fuck up? Or where's the training in this? Somebody throw you three questions?

Can you actually catch three questions and throw four back? And it's like it's a it's a game there, you know what I'm saying. And it's an engagement there too, So it's not trained. So a lot of cats feel nervous. Man. It's like yo, man, that's but the kids is like, it's all right to say you don't know, and it's all right to be an owner of what you think because you know you could be a slave to what you say, So be like, I don't fucking know how

to move on with that. But a lot of these training courses could also do better with having artists have like twenty years your careers, thirty year, forty year careers, those those casts from Motown. Man, I mean you just had Oley Brothers on. Seriously, Ronald Osley said here, it's like, how do you how do you start? It's like like it's incredible and George, oh, George, big up to Aunt George. And I was a wonderful interview. Uncle George is like, I'm he spoke too. I kept jail. Don't don't follow

that path. Uncle oh yo, man, uncause everything differently right, yeah right, it's Oca has done things that we don't even know. He said it and we were shocked. I said, did you say this? He said, yeah, man, un I'm supposed to get to his crib and we're supposed to do some art together, like he said he did. He did art on that wall. They paid it over it did. Yeah, they keep changing, it changed everybody. We had DMX so like every couple of months, well like but yeah, he

just came in the game. Was spray can he just yeah, yeah, yeah, I got documented. Yeah, we document the screen agent so that the work. Yeah. Yeah, So I've been wanting to ask you this question, and I've been in rules I can ask you, well, I can ask you this question, but this is let me ask the question. They can come up and stumble in and they'd be fucked up and nervous. Yes they do, yes, But this is one

of my favorite songs of all times. But I've been in a situation where I could ask you this questioner, I've never asked. I want to know, did you really get a letter from the government? Of course wasn't. Here's the story. It's documented nine and remember born in nineteen sixty Yes, Graham, I'm a grandparents crib. You know, southos In Park, nineteen sixty seven, in June exactly. You know they moved there from Harlem in nineteen fifty five. You

know the you know, it's documents. You know it's come to Queens from Harlem. White flight, you know, wherever black. You know, you gotta study black migration, black migrations, like, oh, we could move there, but white people gonna move out, you know, back there because it's like so um nineteen sixty seven, boom, June. I'm out of school, you know, I'm going to you know, I'm in first second grade

something like that. Right. Um, My grandparents also forced the parents of the year, so there's always boys around, right, twelve thirteen deep. You know it was amazing, like damn they feeding eight people at the same time, a big bat or whatever. So one of the boys, you call him my uncles or whatever. He just got out of high school, went to John Bound right, Yeah, you're doing this is my whole childhood. Let me just say something

real quick. By the way, I never went to high school, but when I was in I was in df Wiles in Sparford, and my mother came to see me and I had just got accepted it to John Bown High School. And so if I didn't get locked up, I would have been in John Bown High School. So you're fucking up my whole childhood right now. It was it was dead before he was born. I'm just like you built up story anyway. Sure enough, he just got out of high school. Wow, to walk up to off the walkway,

fucking military dude. Yeah, uncle goes to the door he freshed out of high school, hand him a letter. Dudes like I mean the regalia man like us marine man. Path gives him that walks right towards his car. They were going down to other houses too. I'll picks up letter, right, it gives you know, seven years old, You're like, whether you fuck you know, move move, move move. I'm like jumping up. I remember I ain't e four, I ain't two. I'm seven, right going on eight. You know what I'm saying.

I got a little sense about me. I'm I'm a nick fan, right, yeah, sure enough. He takes the letter, his face drops and he's like, drops that fucking letter on the on the table and goes just to the fucking backyard me. You know, like, I'm picking it up, and I could read a little bit seven you know, so so so so, you know, because I couldn't read them the big words. But you have been drafted United States Marines are route you know through Campler June, North Carolina,

or route the Southeast Asia Vietnam. Wow, drafted into your summer. Dude. You got to be in Cample of June in a week. And this is before Ali made these statements on this is this is in that period that same man, I mean by six sixty seven, man, doctor Martin is the King makes a speech that that kind of kicks everybody in the stomach, like, oh no, he he's beyond having a dream. He's like saying, you know, motherfucked the Vietnam War.

The day was like tucking that to the back. We can't have we can't have, we can't have to dream us say this. Yeah, even the even the government and the presidents, like I thought, I thought MLK was my man whatever. So that was going on. There's no TikTok. Yeah, no TikTok. So that was going on. You had Muhammad Ali June fourth, nineteen sixty seven. That was going on with Mohamma Muhammad two weeks after Brown. All of them was in that's the black. I believe that that was

sixty eight. I got it June June four, ninety sixty seven, nineteen sixty seven. I stand corrected Bobby Mitchell and had Bobby Mitchell. You had Jim Brown center at the time. Was later Yeah, yeah, because because at the same time, you know, the only one that had a voice in the microphone. This wasn't athletes back back in his head like they give him a athlete to mic and then pull it back. But Ali wasn't having that. He wasn't like that. I'm taking about im driming. I'm pretty all

due uh to respect and praises to our Allah. Who's Allah? You know. It's like, you know, every time, you know, every time they want to mess with black folks, they just I'm gonna just fuck up your name, like Kip Farra Cans. I was like, the fuck is Afara ca do it? Like, oh yeah, you know what the fund? Who the fuck is Alla Fu. It's like you you have more to see, but you gotta be like I kim Elijah one, you have grace before I smack you. But anyway, yeah, he got that letter, he dropped it.

I read that. I was like, yeah, no, he's fucked up. He's not going he ain't gonna have a party this summer. And back then, you know, Motown's popping, like you know, like four times, shake me, wake me, two is over. You know what I'm saying, Seven rooms are gloom, you know, motoil, let's get it popping. You know what I'm saying. Nope, he's going up Vietnam the Marine Corps. That yeah, And that's where that story came from. And the fact is that he and a couple of other uncles came back,

they got strapped. No couple came back, you know. And they used to come back with these purple hearts, and me and my brother used to play put them on the g I Joes because they didn't give a fuck about the goddamn purple heart. This is why I why a lot of cats was fucked up, man, A lot of cats were sucked up. And when nineteen sixty nine seventy seventy one, man seventy to seventy three, because we got to go back and forth to cousins of relatives in the city all the fucking time, man, and going

back to the Bronx. Man, it was tough, man, because cats is like they backed from Vietnam, cast is shooting up of arms, man, and and the thing that that that stirred me away from drugs. Man, it was like I was like, a look at them and cats a shooting in there. I'm like, I don't fuck I mean that the whole You know that they destroyed the Bronx too, And they destroyed the Bronxes, yeah yeah, yea yeah, but Black and Porterbeca y'all lived there, and fuck that. You know,

we never gonna service it. And fucking y'all. Y'all gonna die there, like yeah, it was a war zone and this is why. Yeah, yeah, and this is where we're back into. You know, when we did the documentary, I had to mention them dig up the Laury Bruler, my magic partner on that and Kevin Kevin a in the house, you know, and Dominique Um listen um, the BBC PBS series, Uh like the power Dig up to Asley Brothers for sparking that that whole thought how hip hop changed the world,

important words the world. But out of that seed, out of the Bronx, it was just in franchise left for Dead, out of that seed of you know, it rose like a rose out of the ashes, like a phoenix. It's like people that had to do something. And big up to the Grandmaster cash Man, pick up to the Grandmaster Flash Bambar a cool hrk you know all the cats

in the beginning. Man, that's just made something out of nothing, man and I want to do't call it nothing, but it was left foot dead and we have to also the key thing is this, we can never ignore the context of time. Time has its context. A lot of things we're in the fast forward go on and check it out on YouTube, check it through the screen. The reasons why our books stand up because books appear on

your own time, Like I don't understand this ship. We'll take your time and saw it down to the context whenever you read through a phone and digital man to cold appear and disappear. How many casts you know always got got by three card money? Now you see it? Now you don't underneath the clam and the crab, you know, cats is like, whoa, that's what social media is. I got you what you thought you saw. You probably didn't see. Man, do you think, oh say you thought you saw it right?

Maybe you did. Maybe I'll give you something else instead, like oh yeah, and they got you shaken to the lights. Oh my god. You know like that, digital appears and disappears at somebody, somebody else's behest. Now we're in the time where people are attacked and attached to their gadgets, and I make Nolan, I give no slander on scholars on scholarship, you know why if we want to read, right, what's the deal? We read what we like to read. We're not fucking around with shit. We don't want to

what we don't want to read. Scholars read every fucking thing. They mostly read the fucking, the fucking bad, and the ugly, and they read the good and they process it. That's why you can't have a conversation debate with a scholar, because the scholar read the pro con in the middle side to come up with understand the perspective, right, the only thing you can do. It's like, yo, by the fucker, I can't fuck with you, you know, say that because like even in sports, it is based on a fact,

it's not really based on opinion. When we start talking about the arts, we kind of get into the world of taste, what makes you like distaste and that taste versus in the world. But then you go and if somebody through, if somebody threw you some chief ship that hurts you in the fucking morning, that right, So then they g I don't have mimosas. So taste is a charting thing when it comes down to the art. But also we should have a broad vision where art is

before we grade what art should be. You know what I'm saying. But it's a it's a it's a custom taste, you know, And scholarship. When people have a debate about a lot of different things. Man. I think we should hold scholars in high regard, man, because like I said, they spend it most of day time reading that bullshit they don't want to read and that they don't want to be. And the thing about the speed of of inaccurate bullshit out there is beyond what the human mind

could fucking catch. Because I mean this ship, the speed of what ship comes through your phones and come and the new and understand this and culture every hip hop, every generation is five years, he said. But mister, mister, we we like to praise you and give you your flowers to your face. Oh man, flowers anything I want I want, even if I want you to know the flowers. Listen, I want you to know how these are flowers. Okay, flowers. I like that. Flowers. Yeah, well I got It's like

a Grammy sounds like this from you. She's dropping me all the way. Because we want you to really understand, man, this is special. We want you to understand how important you are to the culture, to to us. Yeah, to the world you are. You are a teacher, you are you are our scholar. How about that? Wow? Man? Those other scholars is nice? Wow? Yeah, man, I mean and you said it earlier. You said you said you ain't

going to church or whatever, but no I ain't. If you were to open up a church, If you were to open up a church, I bet me be the first two people to sign up. Actually, hold up, Hold up, because we need to talk about the hip hop Union, because that is the first thing way to say. You're gonna kicking me out already. No no, no, no no no. We getting drunk. You ain't gonna drink. Make sure make church. He's good, make sure she's good. He had a drink.

There's bathroom breaks and whatever you want. Let me go back to the fight the Power thing. You all listen the first in Fluorid the reason when will fight the power? We were commissioned to do that song? Or Spike Lee, Yeah, because a lot of times you don't like, yo, what's crazy? What's crazy? Last year with the Elvis movie Man, I got Yo, Man, it was like Elvis trolls everywhere. Man, So Captain's coming at me, like yo, Chuck Man looking at me sidewise, Why the fuck you do that to Elvis?

Someone was a herold the most screen ag. So you saw a movie, So you saw a movie, got all sensitizing shit. Now you coming at me? What I said, the line wasn't elvits What was the line? Elvis? Was he? But he never meant ship to me. Now listen, listen, listen. I'm commissioned to do a song for do the right thing right, what's the key area and do the right thing? That's jumped ship off my man, Jim Posito radio, No there this, there's a theme before that. Jim Carlos Borsito says, Yo, Sun,

how come ain't no black people in the wall. The whole fucking movies about that. You got a company, you got a business in a black new a changing black neighborhood. You ain't got no black people on the wall. And so I was like, Yo, man, the fuck it ain't gonna change. That's the whole fucking theme. I gotta write a song for the theme of the fucking movie. That third verse, basically it's saying, I'm scraping them fucking heroes

off the goddamn wall. The cats be coming at me, and like, oh I didn't know that that that that the powers in the movie. That the fuck the beate with me about one thing? One thing I know is my ship are you gonna know me better than me. You might know verses and shit like that I forgot because I'm not good on memory. One thing. I'm on memory on this is the other thing about me. I think if I had a good memory, like for bars and shit like that, like like fucking cane and iced

tea could say sit from fifty years ago. I think my head's too forward. Shit. I never had writing block. I can't remember ship Man. Take me like eight years to remember one fucking verse. But if I did have a fucking memory, I'd be the greatest motherfucker of all time. But you know, you know, I'm up in a hundred, so I'm all right. But if I don't have a good memory. But as far as facts and picture memory

of the events, it's just crystal fucking clear. El Me was coming at you, yo, Yo, they were coming at me like yo. I saw the movie Man, and I'm on fucking butter heard. I'm like the fuck man. Okay, So what happens in this movie? I don't understand. They're just saying it made them like Elvis the movie Yeah, okay, and me I'm a music historian, Okay, Yes, Elvis had attributes. I've seen you give props to in times, badass white boy, right people whatever. But at the same time I'm talking

about I was sixties, in the seventies. We'd drunk on Elvis and all you gotta do is look for black people. Look up black people in commercials in the sixties and the seventies, and how many fun It's like society happened, and we was a part of that motherfucker at all. We've always part of the news. It's like so and so got arrested and throwing in the squad garb of the fucking first ten minutes of the news were in

that motherfucker. You don't see black people at the end of the news, not even in the weather, no commercials, maybe on the ball field and shit like that. They wasn't given them the mic. They were afraid of Ali. I'm saying, Dave Parker, people like Reggie I remember Reddie Jackson first comes to New York. Is like he's a problem because he talks to fucking But when you keep asking the questions and shit was like, you know, can I tell you how much as a growing black young man,

I was insulted by society. I was fucking insulted. But but you know what I said, it was my advantage. You keep thinking I'm a dumb motherfucker man really seriously, and that's why when hip hop came about and I heard people like Starsky, I heard, I heard Mellie mell Man, I thought, yo man, he he dropped from god Man, I said, I never heard nobody, no Mellie mel before records. Man killed Mellie mel and Flash the Furious two three

mcnes and Ryan Heman. Yo Man, I I was like, I mean, he's the first MC and this is the Mellie mel moment, right, A bunch of mail stories up in here. But I'm a trunk kate and trunk kit means condensed, compressed. I didn't know that. For some reason, I moved in, um yo, Mellie mel Man. You know, I used to like how rap was before records, keep the party moving. I like to be broadcasting. I saw Marv Albert was very much a hero because the way I used to hear how he broadcasts, not just say Marvel,

Marv Albot man mar everybody. He would be like, I mean, he would those styling man, That's what I heard. I would he would, you know, he though styling is vernacular, you know, you know, you know, and just a flow because you gotta you gotta flow. When you announced basketball games, man, and I was like that I wanted to become a sportscaster. But then hip hop came and I said, Dan, that's

sort of like the same ship. So I used to go down to the parks and just kind of like be on the sideline just talking shit right and pass. It's like oh right, boom, And then hip hop came. I'm like wow. So I would go to advance, Man, and everybody just thought they could rhyme at seventy nine

and seventy eight. For some reason, they couldn't. Yeah, because you try to get your dance on ye and the worst thing is somebody on the terretators that can't fucking DJ and somebody on the mic they can't can't mc MC, I mean that you had to rhyme. Maybe you had to move the crowd, make an announcement at the door and some ship, you know, but move that ship, you move your car, whatever you had. The MC had to

keep that party a couple of plays. I would go, Man, especially at the colleges, Man, and I'll be like, you know what, man, I'm gonna get on the mic the sit these motherfucking whack motherfuckers down so we don't stop fucking my dance ship up. And that's when Hank saw me at one of the colleges and said, Yo, man, we need an MC. I'm like, I just want to go to the parties and do the flyers. Man, I don't want to it. And then that became a whole another thing, man. So that's what got me jumped off.

But the first MC that I ever heard on the mic in live and Living Color, that really fucking blew me away. No, Mellie Mel, Yo, man, Mellie Me. Mellie Mel's first when people came a recording artist, Yeah, I called Mellie Mel Will Chamberlain because between Mellie Mel and the second dude, and you can say it's Kaz or Moldi or whatever, Mellie Mel is like world Chamberlain. Man, fifty points a game on your point game, It's like he up here in the second and the third, the

fourth and fifth is down there. He had the longest, the widest gap or the best and the next best to me my personal opinion, ever And then he had a dude on the turn tables. That was just fucking Mellie mellon flash. But we shouldn't even really well, just went vibrale because he said that. He said that he believes that Eminem wouldn't be that great because he I don't want to miss call and he said Kendrick rid doesn't resonate with people or something like that. Ten generations

and hip hopping wrap. Every generation got this thing. Um and Mellie Mel's generation. I think there was no gap. He was. The gap was so far between him and the next cat. MODI would admit that and ship say what the fuck? I was a second and fucking Melons on the mountain. But Eminem and Black thought, big up

the Black thought and the roots and also Eminem cyborgs. Man, they cyborgs and computer and but let me tell you this, we can't also get caught up because you know, you got future generations and then you got people who ain't going to even get on the register who was so dope, like sky Zoo it's so dope, was saying out right now, Scots was so dope. But it's just like so many as a trillion mcs out there. So Cass is going

into their style. But here's here's what we could get a little USA arrogant and let me tell you, and they confuse average what you was talking about earlier, the confusion of arrogance and confidence and swag and audacity and moxie and all that shit for a long period of time. Wherever you were in the world, when the New Yorker walks in the room, do you feel it? They said we were cocky. They said we were cocky. We just

said that. Wherever you go on the planet Earth, when the New Yorker walk in the room and you ain't from New York and be like, oh, here coming that New York ship. But we don't mean it. That's what's fucked up about it. We don't actually need it, don't don't it a certain confidence? I know you, I don't mean it, but I'm but let me give you some relevance because the USA is make the same arrogant move to the rest of the world, right smell if you

from the USA. And in fact, number one, if you call themselves Americans, like nobody else can the America since you America could ri be American, South America, Bolivians now American too. Now that to account, because we really the fucking Americans. That's the same motherfucker checking everybody to speak English, everybody mean by the British to say all y'all getting the fucking shit wrong. I'll tell you, I'm sorry, you got Listen, I don't know. I tell you the funniest ship.

Excuse me. Whenever I see somebody who's like racist a little bit, I always say to them, you know, we should go to Europe together, because in Europe we're all Americans. They hate us equally. Like the only time I've ever been, and this is real shit, the only time I ever like felt like like America was accepted. I'm gonna be honest with you, this is when Obama was in office. When Obama is in office, it was like America, you guys are pretty cool. But then when Trump got back

in office, oh yeah, oh yeah. When when Trump was in office, that was the end of whatever was left the black of the black card that we used to get. Going back in the morn, we traveled the world. Listen man, our first tour we traveling. Let me let me tell you travels. I got fifty books in me only put out ten. I got forty to go, I gotta figure this one out anywhere, because I got stories listening. We playing in Germany, West Germany at the time. No, that's

that's West too, that's West Germany. Were playing in West Germany, but we traveled on the bus and we got to play Berlin. Now, listen, you you love postmodern Berlin. This is now in order to get from the line at the end of West Germany, you gotta take this one motherfucking road to West Berlin, which is in the middle of East Germany. But it's flit into two areas. So the minute you get to the fucking line, be that's it. Four o'clock in the morning. They waking your ass up

with dogs and flashlights. Who know, the machine guns and machine guns in your fucking face, and what do you do? You know what I was like, we concert music, black people, It's like, it's your ass, every single one of your asses off the bus in the middle and three o'clock in the morning and Skippy's man, and we're gonna look in your eyes and see if you're lining up with the passport to take this one ass road to West Berlin,

and don't straight to get off this motherfucking road. Wow, you go to West Berlin and you see a wall bob wire and dividing the city in half. I performed in West Berlin one time next to a Nazi club. I went outside the smoke a cigarette by eightiot that I was, and you ever feel somebody looking at you and you know they're looking at you, And I turned it all smoking a cigarette and every one of these guys had the ostica And one year was that that? Okay? So that was that was That was ten years after

the war, So it was it was fully integrated. Both. The thing about it, everybody from the East Berlin side, the former phil Curtains, the Soviet well as they call communists socialist side. You know, we're like, okay, listen, we're supposed to be one Germany now, but I ain't got no fucking leg up. You know, y'all from West Germany got money in the bank, We got like a driver taxi cab for five hundred years to be able to get an apartment. So you had a lot of that

shit going on with to your damn right. Nazis was like, you know what, we're not gonna be loud about this ship, but we need to bring Germany back Germany great again. Right, So back then, it's like we got fans on the other side of the Berlin wall. They want to come to the gig, but at the wall, the motherfucker's like this, you get a bad case of the deads. You know what I'm saying, All that fight, the power of shit fucking stops right here. And this is what I'm saying.

Wherever you go, you can't be like wearing. It's like, oh yeah, I'm American. It's like what part of America you're a US ayer? So we gotta kind of like tone down and once upont of the time, we didn't have a black card, because we had a black card because because people recognize I struck, Oh yeah, Marl Luther King that killed Malcolm X. Y'all. Motherfucker's the rebels. You know, you're invited any year. Then later on when President Obama and I call him president, I don't call him Barack

like people think they know him by name. What the fuck? You know? President Obama came in. I knew that shit man, all right, he's president. Half of that black card disappear because now he's the president in States. He ain't gonna be the president of black people's president of the United States. What does that do for you, Chuck? You get a chance to buy some time four years. We get a chance to buy the time to go to where we gotta get in the world do order to connect with

our people. The diaspora is very important. The diaspora is black brown people around the world. You know, it really is the human race. But we gotta say black folks around the world where it's like, okay, population, this is what thirteen or fifteen percent, I don't ever know where the two percent means black people in the United States of America? Right, what does that mean? You outnumbered? So you got to connect with the days. You can't have

no differences. Sometimes you might have to say, you know, I got to get an idea from this cat that's in Swaziland, and I gotta connect with this cat. We got gadgets, we got computers that they're able to sit, better computers than they had when they sent something to the moon. And I ain't gonna get into that conspiracy theory either or whatever. I'm not even getting that because I having conversations with people that think they've been there. I'm like, you were point in nineteen ain't he want

the fuck it was the director. They said that he did as the first person of green screen. Hey, the model with me, I believe you know my motto, I believe everything and nothing at all. You believe everything, everything and nothing to fuck at all? This model as it rolls, I gotta like evaluate this, sit with it a while. I sit it to the side, like you know, I get back to that later. Man, I'm not gonna tell

you what I believe or not believe. I gotta do some evaluation before your ass tried to tell me what it is. So, I mean, the point that I'm saying is that that you know in this in this way to go around the world. I just think that we could be more aware. I mean, this place is in the world. Seriously, we're playing We're playing Taiwan where they say, shit, you didn't see that. You say that. They said in the war, when you hit the airport, anything boy in

this country pelts death. Yeah, I didn't read that. They kept my ass in the airport. I had a sword that we use on the stage. Yeah, left me. Where's James? The little dudes had me in the corner and says you cannot bring this. They have a smile on their face. None of them matters. They had machine guns. Little dude. I went the signal bare. I went to signal bore, and when I landed, you can't spit. When I landed the signal bore, they put me to the back. I

thought I had a key lord cocaine. You know what. They put me over for cigarettes. It's illegal to buy cigarettes if it's not from signal. I think that's where they last. There was an American kid. I think in the nineties that they gave lashes too for doing graffiti. Well, let me tell you this. You spit, you go to jail. Let me tell you this. Know the law. Know everything about the law that you go and know exactly. Just know that is Understand that. Man, there's two hundred and

twenty countries on this planet. Are twenty twenty two that the James recently said, I thought it was two fourteen. The place is splitting in the different factions and ship know it. I was playing the Jacarta with prophets of raids. They got the prophets of raids. Yo. Man. It was like, listen, play your songs, do not speak to the audience. We're gonna tell you once. I can't say it again, right, I'm sorry your songs. Play the song, but don't speak to the don't say shit to the audience right now.

Now here's another thing. How would you do this? You just you play your song. I can't say throw your hands in the air the audience. No, no, stop the song. By the way, I think that you can't be like your whole girl in the purple. You look good that the line, I mean, we played the basin back in the listen. We played in places when it was was just for your your ship. But Beijing, I got I got lost without effort. After I said, I was looking like he's been trying to correct you all day. You

just his hero. You need this a Mike Tyson ding. He just looked at He's like, I'm not correcting the job. But my drop, he said, dj Ef, No, he loves you. He loves you. Listen as you is he crying in the bathroom. Yeah, that's come up with some funny. I'll be fucked up trying to. By the way, Ef, it's like yall on two different days. It's like fathers. I'm so sorry. Another probles. He goes to crazy Crazy legs are right yes, crazy and pick ups the crazy legs um one of my hills. Look, man, he said, I

don't pick up his phone right. Every year he would ask me to come to rock Steady. We was on tour every fucking year, and I was like, bro, I'm sorry, and it would be around July, which would go into my birthday and it was like, damn man, every year and every years on it. I didn't even show up to ice CU's Big Three because every year he would have at July in August. And that's why I said, finally, when the when the locomotive slowed down, I was like, now I'm able to see places on my own time. Man.

It's like, but yeah, big big, you know, apologies and yeah, I mean I don't pick up a phone. I mean I'll be looking at it. I'll be looking at the phone and I'm like, I'm never answering this motherfucker whatever. You know, so you gotta text me and and I could give you or whatever back, but you know, it's it's it's just what it is. Man. We circle. Man, It's like, you know how it is now? You know

what's crazy hearing you say that? What I just thought was I'm not revisiting places that I've been to for performance, Like I've been to Hawaii so many times, Honolulu, but I went to it for business first, so big even

I write that first half of this show. But it was crazy because I you know, um, I've re visited places now that I've only been to for work, right, So, like it's so many places like Hawaii or so many when somebody paid, oh yeah, because you know, you know what they pay you to come to the So now what somebody said, can you come in and actually pay the fucking flight. You know, it's a totally different thing because I remember me actually hating Paris. Like I'm sorry

for people that live in Paris. I'm sorry y'all. Didn't we deal in at first your own listen, your own names of what you think. So at first I used to go to Paris and I used to be like, I don't want to be here. I no Eiffel Tower, nothing attracted me. Right, I met my wife, God bless her. My wife said, motherfucker you getting out this hotel room and we're gonna motherfucking go, We're gonna eat, we eat the brand. I fucking rode a bicycle. I was felt

fucking retarded. But I was just like, I was like, Okay, this is culture, Like this is what we're supposed to do. I didn't know that being from New York. We want to keep on, we want to keep our timberlands on in the ocean. We don't break. And it was the first time was my wife just was actually showing me that, listen, culture, this is this is what you you kind of do. But I took all of this for granted. I took you from New York. Se how much culture is in

New York? That have you? Have you visited nothing? I've never been in I've never been in the Statue of Liberty. A lot of New York is when you tell them, like, listen, there's so much in New York. You really kind of ain't got to go nowhere else, but you got to go to New York, none of them listen. You've been to my studio. I've had a thirty second in Madison. I had a studio across the street from um down

the block from Empire State Building. I've never had the urge of walking in my whole life, right who life? People in another country are dying. You know what's crazy? This is what this This was crazy. When you go to Europe, right, and you speak to someone from Europe, right, they always say, because the States, by the way, I hate stop calling us the States fucking assholes. Right, this is the States. That's more accurate than not saying American.

But here's here's here's it. If you ever speak to someone from Europe they say, so, you say, it's like yeah, because you know in the States it'd be like that, and I'll be looking at them. I'd be like, okay, so what state have you been to? And then the spect to Seattle. But then they'll they'll say something like, oh, I've visited Seattle and they went to Seattle for two days and they based the whole America office before they

visit for Seattle. And I'd be so happy to crush their dreams and to say you've never been in America, sir, But just you've been to Tacoma, but your your culture didn't style the first thing you said, douster doff. But but but to play Germany, you play eight different places because you've you've also employed the Hamburger, right, but pulling you place. But the Irish person is going to go to one city on the trail Ima go to Hamburg and come to fuck. You can't judge Germany over Hamburg.

You gotta. But that's why artists have the window to teach the world to those you know, it is Hamburg, Hamburg, yeah, and Frankfort and Frankfort yeah. And I didn't need a Hamburger on Frankfort there. That's the license that artists have. It's like, you know, give us your time and we'll give you the world. But you know, some times when it came out, I want to give you a black side of the world. But everything about us is fucked up. It's like, you'll come on. Really, it's like we ain't

got some We can't even say the word beautiful. That was the thing about Kid Lamar. He used a beautiful in his vernacular. You know. Uh, Kanye has done things like that makes you say, wow, that's just beautiful. You ask me about Kanye, I'm like I said this for years. I say, well, he started his own religion, and the dude is like salvad Or Dolly. Oh shit, that's a good. But if you don't know Salvador Dolly, it's like, well,

I mean I said bars and lyrics. I said, you ain't gonna catch up to this ship until you become coaches. It's like, but I'm not trying to educate you at fourteen. That's somebody who's twenty that you love has got to do that job. Me. I'm like, you know, I'm like, I'm like me and we were sex egenerians. Man, that's our official title. You know you're your sixties man, so you should talk about things A beautiful thing man. The world is beautiful man. Yeah, but I mean yeah, nature,

nature will destroyed so much shit. That's the fucking ugly aspect of it too. You can spend your time on the Weather Channel will always talk about the next disaster, but you're giving me a sunny day some goddamn time. God, everybody just can't do that. So it's a It's a beautifu. Hip hop is such a beautiful for him. So back to that that early the hip Hop Alliance Please yes, which is hip hop's first union, because I heard that you know that that you guys also mentioned that we

try we try to start it ourselves. We were talking about early on, but I'm sure you've been doing it. God, God, big up Curtis Blow, who seriously has the longest timeline of anybody in recorded hip hop history. He signed the first major record contract in nineteen seventy nine. Matter of fact, I think even at seventy nine, they went to look and scouted, They try to sign Eddie Cheaper or some of the other star warts, and they end up saying

Curtis Blow is the perfect person. And by no surprise, and ain't no accident, you had what Christmas rapper Alan nineteen seventy nine, Blow, Yeah, he's hurt Curtis Blow, and then you had the breaks so and and then by no surprise, if we cast at first doing records, they were the best that did it because nobody else was doing it at that level. It's no surprise that Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five recorded, you know, first for

Brazilia in October. Then they did enjoy with Bobby Robinson's label super Rapping, because them two was a super rapping, super rapping Mellie mel Kid Creole and also free Kid Creole. Please, but that's why we have the hip hop SPIONs. Well

Kid Creole. You had Raheem Mix, Mister saka Scorpio and Keith Cowboy, who invented the term hip hop as far as the recorder story, Yeah yeah, I mean and each one of them MC's the Pulleys and you put them together and make five MC sound like one with Grandmaster Flash. What it's like, by no mistake, there's like you gotta

do records so big. All opposite sugar Hill Gang because they the first and really it's debatable because King Tim the Third was on with playing with Fat Back Band with you know, King Tim the Third, which was I mean, Fat Back Band was my favorite, one of my favorite groups. So when they came out I heard them on w KTU in July nineteen seventy nine, I was like, damn

he rapping and that's something wold. But when sugar Hill came out, the thing that puts sugar Hill over the edge they rapped on the Good Times, and my god, there's never ever, ever, ever been attracted monumental the hip hop and rapping like Good Times nineteen seventy nine, nineteen

seventy nine. Man, the summer nineteen seventy nine hip hop was so crazy with Good Times because it was like what it's from chic and show good Time record by Bye shep Okay, and they were like what they were like they got coin disco because they made the Raider happened to play in disco. You know, they're quite what freak out that before that everybody dance, so they was like they weright they So they got kind of like coined as a disco band, but they was just a

badass motherfucking band. And so when they came out with Good Times of seventy nine, I remember being at the party, you know, and they said this new record by Eddie Chievera broke it right. He came out the long aud and he said, Eddie, you got this new record by Chic you know, and everybody's expecting, like the music be up tempo like that. They played Good Times and that ship started like that, and we were like, what the fuck is this country slow shit? Right? He played it

two more times that night. It's like, okay, she is loaded the tempo down to some country funk whatever. But man, in two weeks, DJ's got a hold of that motherfucker and down to the blank gang Gang Gang Gang, Good Times boom boom and that yo. Man, I'm telling you, you can't even describe how hip hop was in June, July and August in nineteen seventy nine. There is no explanation for it. There is no and there's one tape that's going around, but I called the greatest hip hop

nighte ever was October nineteen seventy nine. It's out there on YouTube. I've played on my radio show a bunch of times. Big up to everybody at rap station. Yo, man, it's Starsky on the Turntables. DJ Hollywood's Eddie Cheaper, it is DJ Divine from Infinity Machine. It's Grandmaster Flash, Curtis Blow and Mellie Mell and they are like, yo, man, you couldn't take your eyes or your ears off of them.

But it was inconceivable that somebody would make a rap record because even me was I was like, rap record, How the fuck are you gonna put rap on the record. It's a three hour thing. Man, It's like I was like, it's impossible. I was like, impossible, and I I ain't no kid, I'm nineteen years old. I'm like, it's impossible to make a round. How the fucker. And then when King Tim the Third came out like he was like, m okay. And then when sugar Hillcad sugar Hill did it,

it was like, Yo, that's it. And the thing about it, bro, that ship was sixteen minutes long. Yeah, the ironic thing is why you always got put time in the context, the sixteen minutes was not how long it was, It is how short they got it. That's short because yeah, because they got it down to sixteen minutes. I'm gonna tell you that this this, I've said this a few times. I was apology getting on the mic to sit whack him seats down. They played good Times. I'm rocking the

fuck out of good times. Right all of a sudden, I ain't your words behind me, DJ's Larry t Worries behind me. So what do you think I did? I did the fucking miliev nilly. I kept moving my mouth and the crack and I was rocking for fucking twenty minutes. Remember I was on. I was rocking a good time before. So sure enough, man, people were like, damn, changing this voice. Even the chicken tastes like boyd all that shit. Right at the end, Cats is coming up to me like, yo,

he's a bad motherfucker. He's just round on and on, because back back then he's like he went on and on, you know, to the break of dawn, like hot butter on the what the popcorn? Right, I'm with non stop run. I turned around after people are like left. I looked at that and say, what the fuck? But what's that? He showed me Red Label Rappers the Light sugar Hill Gag. I was like what I was? My brains looked blown. The next day, WBLS, this is Frankie Crocker and I

got a new record by my friend Sylvia Robinson. This is called Rappers The Light by the sugar Hill Gag. You heard it, you know the city was on fire. The city was on fire by the next Thursday when I did the thing, castles like you nice Chuck, But come on, man, that's how long I've been Robber, I've been riding with since they sneak a record behind me,

got words on it also fuck oh man. But let me tell you, man, I can't even I can't even like, I can't weigh the magnitude of hip hop before records man, and that record Good Times Times just I can't imagine it was. It was fucking it was. It was. It blew to this day thinking about That's what I'm saying.

The time, the context of time is everything because you can't go back into time the same thing about like when when Mellie Mel might say I could get any rapper, but well, the thing about you got to hold the context of time and time is real. It's like if you say, whoa Mellie Mel, Let's say if he wants to take on Well, it's exactly. I mean, that's a number storm not gonna say it right, but but I respect.

All you gotta do is say, well, Mellie Mel, if he was nineteen in nineteen seventy nine and you wasn't born yet, then you couldn't compete. That's why when they say boxes like put Tysons get Ali, I was saying, but when did we start? Did we say when Ali is seventy something and Tyson is thirty or dude? Or do we do and Ali was twenty and Tyson wasn't born yet? He was a zygot and ship. You know, I mean, what do you so, what do we compare it? Oh? You're trying to move time to make that. You cannot

compare errors. You cannot move time. We don't have much changes in that time. The construct. We could dream of some shit like you know, like well so and so and its prime versus so and so and knit prime, Well, how are you gonna know what the prime is is? And so it's art, It's it's fun to do these things. It's fun to make listen shit like that. Everybody, Oh man, rollers, do you think Flavor flags? Yes? Is Boosey's pops. We

always come with questions of what we think Flavor. I felt it, but then when I seen them together, I was like, maybe this is not as fun as I think the kind of really do. And I love Lucy. I love you Bucy. Where we were, I love it. But my good brother Nori. When you study the diaspora, you know that many of us got twins and triplets everywhere. Matter of fact, when we first played Ghana, they wouldn't let Flavor leave. He had that many kids out there. No, no,

we don't believe. We won't believe that you're not from here, yea like they do. He was, You're not right. We had to show hate. I'm not I'm not from me, I'm somewhere else. So yeah, they did. He from Ghana too, I'm sunny. Yeah, no, he from Haiti from he from Haiti. But they don't accept him in Haiti either, right, they don't want him at Big Up to Haiti. They kick him out of Haiti, but guys hit the whole world

still man that Haiti? Right, Yeah, it's big up to Haiti anyway, Pop Alliance, the chairman caress one up in the brasses mc light Curtis blow founded it as could I be down. But it's not especially this problem. But it's not about like who's at the topic, because now it's like the more the better, And you have to have people who are concerned about the infrastructure of artists who've been in the business a long time, never understood, you know, like Okay, I recorded fifteen years ago, twenty

years ago, Like what does that mean? They got their kids grown up? They have no idea what their dad even did or better yet, like, how do we it's a legacy to be passed down, how do we go after it? Who do we go to? Uh? My dad did bars, But what does that mean? There's something for everybody, trust me. If you don't go get it, somebody gonna go get it. Oh yeah, but he only did a guest collabor on a feature like nineteen ninety five. You don't think somebody is on the tail end of that.

So the young you know, now I wouldn't just say young because that's subjective to man, what is what is young? Man? But our people are are or in the business without understanding of what this whole business is, which means that you have to have people that come along that that even aligned by your family or some organization that lets you know what what is you know? And that's what I think the Hip Hop Alliance UM can do. Number one, Really it's in partnership with sag after right, which all

the time was a perfect that's the biggest play. But because Curtis Blow, you know, because is that for actors, right, provides that same type actors anybody in because me and if I don't know, if I don't know how much if it's always been pushing this hip Hop Union because I feel like anybody I know how hard it is

to be famous. It's the worst job in the world, right, because you can never take off your mask, Like I don't give a fuck how many times I could do, Like if you could check into McDonald's, you could check into construction. Once you take your vest off, you're all. I'm never off. None of us is never think about doing no crime shit ever, So before cameras don't think about like, yo, man, I could do the dirty dirty or whatever. It's like, yeah, okay, all right, you know

you got the ID. Everybody's trying to fucking get right. So I say I say this to say I always felt like it should have been a hip hop union for us and and and especially people. And I get it, like sometimes you say, well, what if the person didn't make it, What if the person didn't go platinum? What if the person didn't didn't go go It's even more we should take because they had to endure the looks of being shown and saying okay, this guy was a rapper and he didn't make it, like or even work.

The one hit wonders, right, the guys that have one hit, all the participants, I mean, I mean girls like I feel like we should take care of them. I feel like it needs to be the home community. I feel like I feel like I feel like this is me personally. If you are participating in something that makes you famous and it doesn't actually work for you, I feel like we should are. It's in us to take care of that. It's in us to say this is inhumane right here,

because it's so hard to be famous. Man, it's so terrible, like like you can't go to CDs. I don't want to go to CVS, but I want to get in carbone early. So so yeah, so what's up? You look at younger? Shit? You fucking this mother? But I feel like the Hip Hop Union, by the way, we want to sup We gotta support it. We gotta support whether just for people seeking fan because there's a lot of people behind the scenes that are not seeking. I also deserve to be taken. That's what the hip hoper Lines

has done very clearly. It's not based on again with the faces that draw it in, but you need infrastructure people. This show is built out of also infrastructure, people that make it click and make it work. The masses out there. Sometimes we confuse confuse, like when it comes down to us, they just say the masses they just moved the m over. They consider our masses them asses and thinking that we ain't masters the masses. They just moved the m over to them. At I got bars that passed people like

taxi cabs eighty six. Let me also ask you you sued Universal. I've sued and been sued man. Matter of fact, it's so many damn I mean in that world. The average person has no fucking idea how many times that you're it's it's a gunfight. No, but universal? Okay, which which which lawsuit was? Because I believe did you sued on behalf of hip hop? Yeah? I've been perfect class, so okay in my contract, let me relate it to me. Right, you've read every page. Never, That's what I'm saying. Let

me tell you this. When when the average person says, well, how come you rappers and read the contract? I said, you did the same when you accept on yes, you bought a car or whatever, like I just accepted. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm just sorry. Get lawyers if we feel that this person we can trust. But yo, man, it's it's it's such a thick business. And then you got a contract that's like this. And somebody told me, he said, the reason that contracts are like this because every single page

is a fucking lawsuit, right, fuck with children? Yeah, I never when your penalty records. Yes, So when I went back and I looked at it, nothing digital says anything digital about They didn't have any digital rights. There was no digit first one that says what. I don't remember. I just wanted the money we all do it perpetuity in the universe territory. It's the world and what the universe? How the fuck? Which is the universe? Fucking up? Tuning shit?

You know they side they're taking your records that you put out in Mars. Big up, big up to jay Z because jay Z is like our Jupiter. And the reason I say Jupiter, it's like, you know, if you study the Solar System, Jupiter absorbs all the asteroids, all the collisions that would destroy Earth. They don't go because he's He's big enough to absorb and protect the Solar System with his magnitude, which allows us to fucking do anything.

God damn, God damn pick up the jay Z. I mean, I'm gonna people say no, no, no, that It's like shit, man, He's gonna absorb all that shit. Ain't no asteroid hitting me. Wow. So that's what I'm said. With fame, famous, a fake construct, there's a famous, a four letter word. I chose to tell people. I said, listen, I got a second story. I got a second story office in the world of the entertainment business where I always could go to the

penhouse whenever I want to. But I choose to stay on the second floor because you could walk up the staircase before you catch the speed elevator. Now talk to me before you going up there. Sometimes it castle. I'll take the speed on the elevator up and then they'll see me. I said, I'm gonna go back to the second floor, But the speed elevator doesn't go to the second floor, goes straight down to the basement, maybe even the crash landing. See me before you go up, because

it tells you how to handle the world. A fucking fame, which is a four leather word that is synonymous with fade because because it's a false construct, fame has a tennessee to fade. It's not it's a false construct. It's not really real, and that means it's another four letter f word, f A K E. Fame might fade and it's faked. And if you don't believe that, you're fucked. See me on the second floor. Because I get up to the get up to the penthouse whenever I want,

I don't stay there. I mean I'll be like, who you know, man, I'll go back right back down to the second floor. That's where I'm comfortable at. But cats see me on the way up and there their rise and their levels to wherever they gotta be. I applore that. I just say, enjoy it, man, I mean, come on, man, I mean enjoy enjoy the process of dancing with fame because you're better than fame. Fame is a construct and you do real art. You're a real thing, so it's

something that you do. And I think eight listen Man sixty two is from six going my sixty thirty. Yeah, I'm it's good to be fucking me. No, I don't want to be bigger. I don't want to be I want to be better always, but I don't want to be bigger. I just want to just be me and

and and be able to continue to help. And when I see my man and and and other people my my, my, my fam and the group and all that, and they have things and they're able to do things, and people that work with me, like the Sea Doctor under my record label, you know, a flat line and the rap station. We just came out with um the Bring the Noise app, which is cultural media. It's not social media's culture media.

So it's the first app and it easy to make it Twitter and it ain't no no stay everybody can stay at Twitter. They can stay you stay Twitter whatever. And it's a funny thing. It's like, you know, back in the day, you know, I would have somebody say, well, we'll watch it, chucky, you know them people like that. I was like the fact, I don't every guy trust these things like they know, people like Elon Muskas, Zucker Burnley give a fuck. So with me, I'm like, I'm

not telling people to come along. This is just gonna be there. And it's about sam, It's about film, art, music, and if you want to put your thing there, will co exist. Small little piece of real estate. Won't try to be social media, which sometimes you know, like scar face pick up the Brad Jordan's scarface. Yeah, he says. Man, you know, Chuck Man, you know shit is a sandbox. Man, you can't have the strip pole in the sandbox. And you told me that. You say, yeah, it's a great idea. Though, okay,

we'll keep that to yourself. That thinks Dixons and a whole other things. It's just like, you know, the poll is a good thing, but the sandbox is where kids play that part oh you forgot that? Everywhere everywhere today, man, It's like it's to me, it's like everybody got the listen this ten generations. Man, there ain't no reason why fifteen year old ship try to appeal to a twenty year old, right, no reason, not not really. I mean, if if all forty year old appeal to a twenty

year old, just be yourself, they come. Cool if they don't come. But in social media catches up in a they're competing against each other. It's nope, just be who you all grow gracefully, embrace aging as opposed you know. I mean, death is a real thing. Man. Twitter, now I'm in with black Twitter came along. I was like, I did you know? And no, no offense because if they all come at me a black Twitter, I ain't read it anywhere. I'm just saying that Twitter up, Well,

I don't listen. Listen, we gotta watch these other platforms because somehow the platforms, it's like other people are on the platform and I'm like, that's like motherfucker's throwing cotton each other each other on the fucking plantation. Like you know, I'm on that person plantation and now I'm on that place the plantation cotton. I built my own platform, and I'm like it's whatever. I won't stick to the culture. But you know, I mean plantation was a social media man. No,

we don't need it. Yeah, oh yeah, matter of fact. Open So I'll answer you a question. And like I said, we're family now. So we've been found white media. Yeah, white media. Okay, shit, we didn't know we're going there when I did the PBS series. Big up the PBS and the BBC commendation. Obviously, I have a long read out of obligation. So it wasn't like I was ducky or we were circling. Don't work. Listen, you don't have to explain it at all the way for your present whenever, listen,

white involvement everywhere in here, y'all. Was a little mad at you. I see you doing the white media. I was like, well, what's he doing? Come, come, come home, come home, come. I was very pleased, but I can't. And I saw the neighborhood. I said, well, at least this ship is in the neighbor that I recall a matter of fact, down in Miami, right I committed where

we are right down in Miami. I remember they even built Miami Arena in the hood, and said we can't have this ship here no more, and they fucking tore down That's where one of those sources of words happened in old I was like, why would they do that? They said, you know what, we can't have our fucking arena. Then I said, that's the first place that well, not the first places we played, but the first arena arena that we played down here where the Heat first. So

they don't arena. That's how they are, that's who they are. Tell us tell us just too highly on you. So tell us dj E, tell us dj e, what happened with that? They just I don't know if that's to me. I don't know, because now we don't know that. Nobody know that you movie the Miami was an old time. No, he's talking about the old that was overtown and can you passed up shopping because they built up something talking

about the Miami Arena where the Heat first played. Yeah, radio right right there right, Robbie Cyclly, I want the Ronnie Cyclly, Yeah, Miami. I think it just became a money thing to build a new one, so they had to tear it down the old one. That's what I think. Something somebody there, you know, I live in Miami our local pretty so yeah, he's now. I thought the New York was the Foules conrupt his place in the world. I was our local government is Miami is paid to

get on probation out here. This is real, This is real alferation. But so we noticed, we noticed. We noticed back in the day because Luke had so much power here, they hated every every move that Luke would make. And Luke was also hip hop. He was in everything. Man, he's a pioneer and everything. And I said, damn it. But Luke, you know, still made changes. He helps sports teams out and he's the person to go to and

get it by. So yeah, but before we get up out here, I need I wouldn't keep it sealed, No, man open a couple of days. Look, look, I got this ship coming out a lot, and I mean, I'm not here to sell ship or the place. People's asked with the past and shit like that. But this is one of my pride. But I got to talk about that because that's what I gave y'all. It's my first art art book, and yeah, it's my fine arts book. And so I ain't got to read. No, you ain't

got read. Look at the pictures drawing it. I got it. Market shit, I'm reading a little bit. Let take it a little bit. And and this is, um, I'm just passed around. I gotta take this back. That shit is have you some motherfucker? Yeah, man, I could throw that shit and that hurt somebody. But those are my naphet grovels. And what I was able to do we all my years and hotel roo especially a prophets arranged is that

you got a hotel time, hotel time, man downtime. It's like and I and and uh, when when my dad passed the twenty sixteen, um, I thought that, uh, you know, I'm getting back in my full time. My downtown was the best therapy in the world. And then um, I did Awaska? You did you do drugs at the other times I've always wanted to do. DMT is a drug? All right. Also listen, listen, I'm educated from the best sense say a person you ever having. That's a great

be real in Cypress Hill. All right. So but um yeah, DMT is when when my dad passed, as you know, I'm not hearing all that. Oh he's in a better place and all that than whatever I said. You know what I feel that I need to know where this spirit you know, is that? And sure enough my polates coach big up to kl she's part of a community. Um people who did introduced you to? It was? It was, it was going around, right, and then the conversation, the

conversation was going around. And at the same time, Timmy, who's the bass player and raged against the machine. He does everything. And Timmy was telling me about, you know, his trip but doing DMT and he said, you know, like cats do mushrooms. It's like you see, you know, elephant and you shake your head. You don't see the fucking elephant. He said when he did DMT one time, you see the elephant, shake your head. And now, motherfuck yeah,

I'm the fucking elephant. I'm like, I said, Timmy's coming from the greatest rock bass player on the planet where he tells a fucking story. His stories is just like you lean in so far, it's like what the fuck are you a nuts? But you're like wow. So he told me this and I was like whatever. And then when my polates coach said, she's the part of a community. Remember, Iawaska is the sacrament, it's the spiritual sacrament of the

of the journey. Yeah, so I was like, so anyway, I was like, man, you know I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. She's gonna cut the shaman. I know it's gonna come into my house. My daughter's funny. She's like dirty smoke weed first. So I'm like, you know what, I need to know where where when my dad's at You know what I'm saying, because I feel he's at you know what a nobody giving me no answers that I need to know right now. I mean, he talked to a man fifty five years and all of a sudden, boom,

the silence. It's like, yeah, you know, and my dad like said my dad. My mom is like, people tell me about heroes out there. I say, well, everybody's a stepped down from them too. It's like good shit. Then you know when Cats were saying your chuck your pops, man, you know when Cats is a hundred, your your pops is a thousand, I'm like you damn right. He's like that dude was amazing. So anyway, I'm gonna know where his spirit was. So sure enough, the shaman who always

go back and forth to Peru. Remember it's like pug, yeah, there you go, there you go, and he already knows to travel. So she came into the crib and I felt when it was administered through chocolate, it's illegal in the country and all. But at the same time, you know, you're going through enzymes, you're going through all kinds of training and the padding of the chest. I was as funny as a motherfucker, you know. The room started defending all that. But I felt, for a split second I

had this communication. I was good. It was like, fine, I'd have to do it twice. I felt for a split second I was communicating with your father. Yeah, man, for real, I mean like like like and it was like kind of like three quarters through. So so let let listen. A year later, I know this is just a short sorry. A year later, I was like, you know, I did it, already got my answer. But a community came.

It's like, well, you want to come to the community, to to my house, you know, and and actually you know, revisited with a community and see, like I don't know. I was like, I got my answer, you know, I ain't got to do I watch it again. But then I said, okay, cool, I'm gonna try something. Well, I went to the community, I mean too a house. About ten to fifteen people were there, seem shaman, and I was sitting there. I was like, okay, okay, all right, we got a group of people, so I asked her.

I said, give me a ream of paper, a bunch of markets. So I sat in one spot in her living room. And then of course our wasaka was administered and the sacrament and all that, and sure enough, yo, I went through eighty five illustrations right in four hours. But the crazy thing was, right, I was drawing shit out of every wrap you know, computed memory ship, and I was drawing with a style that you know when you draw a paint or whatever. A lot of people do the exterior and then they go in. This ship.

Was the energy on informed the exterior. So I was going like this and not even looking down at it. Right. So the thing is when I stopped doing it, but then the room started to bend and shit like that. Right when I started again, the room as clear as I'm speaking to y'all right now, so I'm gonna just eighty five illustrations, right, came up out of that ship. So after you know, you descended, I'm like, cool, but

my hands were doing this. Now. Remember I told you earlier I believe everything and nothing to fuck at all. Some things ain't meant for us to process and understand why and what. I got my answer the first time and the second time I said, well, it doesn't mean like, okay, I need to get ideas to fucking go and do high washker So I could go into that zone and

get idea and I don't need that. Well, I was told, is that because I am my artists and this is an important thing for artists, and this is why we're in the war of art instead of all the war. We already have the ability to go and descend and descend inside ourselves on an elevator of creativity. We're pregnant with ideas. Everybody has art in them, not everybody can get art out of them. So it's a real opportunity when you have people create. And I'm gonna creative furnace.

Ever since that time, I've done thirty thousand illustrations. Yeah, I got Downtown. What the fuck else I'm gonna do? Bom bom boom by. I'm very fast because I worked at courtyards. Um not court, your courtroom speed and courtroom speeds. Back in the day, you have an illustrator and and fucking I gotta do this ship and get to the news station. Well, now you know, cats can do their

shape and fucking email or zippet to somebody. But back then cats used to have the boom, go in the courtroom, sketch out the courtroom, and get to the fucking courier, get that ship to the TV station, get that shit in there at six twenty and shit like that. So you have to be a fast illustrator. So that's what these these books have come out. And these are early works where where you know, and I didn't mean to cut you off before, I just wanted to get to it.

Just as a matter, I've always been asked, oh man, how could I get this? Because social media really allowed out to come out. Back in the day, if somebody was an artist, you'd be like like, yo, man, come to my gallery. Yeah yeah, I like going to the art show. The social media is like, go, I'm gonna put some ship up. Damn wow. And then that shit led to like, well how could I get this ship? Do you? Prince? I know? Not just put download this shit.

I don't do, and it just got bigger and bigger and bigger, and then people like, why don't you do books? Come on do books and pop up and that's how that led to that. I mean, so everything in this business I never sought out to do, from the Deaf Championship to the Prophets of Rage to art books, they always been a demand that dragged me in it. The shit I like to do is unattractive ship, you know, the ship that people wind up wanting me to do. It's the ship that that like, oh man, we will

make that shit something. It would have been crazy that if people to put Awak on his list, you know, because a writer like that's the most the most famous, um my most part of the show is when I asked, you know, the artists, what do they want to drink? What do they want to have? And like like on the list, if if you would have put out and we watch a certain you got to bring the shot man, yea, we remember, you know. And and and every ritue, you

guys have a ritual where it takes you. It takes you to the place that any result, it's like you're having a good time, you open up. You know. I had never been a person and you know where we come from. We're like listen, man, I mean, anybody could do anything. The crack epidemic was a problem because I mean there's a lot of problems with addiction on drugs that are forcing in the neighborhood. Because like back in the day Boom, we remember, we're doing We're doing parties

and shit like that. Man. I mean, come on, man, we were up there rocking clubs. Man, I mean to five in the morning, and you think it's like a music and cass ain't blinking and ship They're like yo, keep going. He's like, it's like yo, you think it's like yo, man, we roasted this fucking place right class, Like yo, man, It's like I got blinking that shit again. So it was the politics of the game. It's fucking

people up. It's like yeah, now damn yo, I don't give a fuck if you smoking wear in a cornfield. Now you're gonna bust my window, fuck my ship up, and steal my ship to keep your ship going. That's the problem I have with that. Or Betty up, you're gonna come into our gig. You're gonna wear fucking dukie ship to get robbed and break up the fucking party. We used to tell people no goal. You can't win no goal in this party. Ken fucking just like yo,

I walk. I worked that fucking Walmart fucking all year to get this gold chain and coming there with my my pretty girl. I'm like, dude, don't do that with this ship right here. Pick this shit and we say leave your ship in the car. Every once in a while you get some asshole man ship enough yeah, right, and then you don't talk around. You gonna look at six cats and you want to take him on. This party is ending. Man, we can't have that. So we so public enemy did practical shit. Take to go, Take

to go. Don't wear the goal because you can't protect a goal. It's like you won, cat man. This cat's looking at you like like a take on a planet like my man to wear my chain? OK, I don't know. They wrapping me up talking to the listening. Hold on, I've ever done this group. I gotta give you a hug, man, man, Thank you so much. Man. I really appreciate I really you have no idea how much you mean to the community. And we're gonna always support you. And I definitely want

my order to forget that. Drink Champs is a drink Champs LLC production and association with Interval Presents, hosts and executive producers n O r E and dj e FN from Interval Presents Executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg. Listen to Drink Champs on Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs hosted by Yours Truly, dj e F and n O r E. Please make

sure to follow us on all our socials. Let's at drink Champs across all platforms at the Real Noriagon, ig at Noriagon on Twitter, mine is at Who's Crazy on ig at dj e FN on Twitter, and most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news, and merch by going to drink Champs dot com