From Hot Take: Yes, We Still Need to Talk About Climate

Hey, drilled listeners, We are about to go on a brief hiatus to get to the next investigative season, ready to put out to all of you. In the meantime, I wanted to let you know about the other show that I do with my co host Mary Annaisee Hegler. It's called Hot Take, and we take a feminist race forward lens to the biggest story of our time, climate change. It's a holistic, irreverent, no bullshit look at the climate crisis and all the ways that we're talking and not

Hello, and welcome to Hot Takes, the podcast where we take a look at the climate crisis and the climate conversation. I'm Marianna ease Hegler.

And I'm Amy Westervelt.

Today we're gonna do one of our special in between season episodes. These are the ones that we're calling Hot Take Unwined. Last time we did these, we were drinking wine, but this time we're not drinking wine because it's a heavier kind of week, so we're both going with like actual cocktails and we're not playing around this time. I have a hurricane and it is exactly what it sounds like. It's a hurricane, and I didn't go eat on the wrong I didn't.

So.

I'm having a drink that I'm gonna call you don't want this smoke?

That was pretty good. That was pretty good for someone who doesn't like dad jokes. That was actually pretty good.

Pretty good, pretty good. Okay, and it is. It's basically a margarita, but it's a spicy cucumber pomegranate margarita.

So it looks fancy.

I know, it's very fancy. And then I made my own sort of salt rim with a like a chilly lime smoked paprika salt rim. So it's a it's it's wildfire themed. It's kind of spicy and smoky. Yeah, it's delicious actually, but it's quite strong. I kept adding different liquors to get the color right. Yeah, and now I'm I'm well on my way to being drunk.

I can't wait to see a picture of this. I really can't or to see where this is gonna take this whole conversation. Yeah. So I think it's fitting that our two our.

Two cocktails are hurricane and wildfire theme because we're both about to go through hurricane and wildfire season and that season we're getting into the season, and I'm from Hurricane Land, and you're from fire and land, so it fits. And the liquor fits with the heaviness of this day, of this week or two weeks.

I don't know anymore.

I'm so confused. Like today, I thought it was the end of a week, but it's only what Wednesday.

It's Wednesday.

Yeah, by the time this comes out, it will probably be Friday, and like.

Who knows what sort of what happened exactly? Who knows?

I mean. In fact, just before this, I was reading or just scanning the a ed written by Senator Tom Cotton encouraging Trump to send in the troops. I didn't actually read it. I'm not gonna lie. I read the headline in the first was.

Yes, I can't believe that got published. I really can't.

White guys on Twitter like smart and I'm using air quotes that you can't see smart white guys on Twitter, smart liberal, woke white guys were like, actually, it might be a good thing, because you know, it's so crazy and it's like good to know what they actually think and that's how you beat them. Blah blah. I was just like, no, I'm sorry, there's nothing good about a white supremacist senator calling for military action to crush a protest yeah paper in the country.

And also, just by the record, folks, we are talking about Senator Tom Cotton.

This is a grown man who drinks glasses of milk.

Oh total milk.

The man is a psycho pet. Yes, you can't trust somebody who drinks milk on purpose without coffees.

Just straight milk, straight milkn It's a psycho path. He's definitely a serial killer, yes, yeah, But honestly, of.

All the things that have happened in.

The past week and a half, that's kind of one of the least bothersome to tell you the truth.

Because can I.

Just tell you how awkward it feels to be a black person in the climate space right now? I bet yeah, so incredibly awkward.

I'm just watching, like the way that people are trying to approach you and other black people right now is like very cringey. So I can only imagine actually being the person in that.

You mean to tell you, I have enough love and light to fire up a six flags for like eighteen weeks.

Peace.

Peace. I haven't made so much love and light in my phone right It's like a renewal power source. It's crazy, so that's that's one thing, but also just it's been this awkward dance of now's we're going again into this sort of cycle of now's not the time to talk about climate. And I can't tell you how disorienting it is.

How does yeah, especially for you, but to hear now is the time to listen to black people but also not the time to talk about climate.

It's such a strange experience to me to have white people come to me and say, now's not the time to talk about climate because we need to be worried about black people.

And I'm like, do you not see can you see my face? What do you think I am. I don't have to like.

Suddenly care about black lives because I live one. I always care about black lives, and the two things are not are not extricable from one another. And what I hear when I hear people saying that they can't talk about climate and talk about racial justice at the same time is that I feel like you don't understand either one first of all, and also just you're less invested in one than you are in the other.

Yes, totally, it's like the other side of the don't bring your identity politics into the climate space coin. And it's totally bizarre to me that people who would totally reject that argument are making this argument now that like, you know, don't bring your climate stuff into racial justice. Like what the whole point is that they're combined, guys, They're the same thing.

There's no like special kind of justice.

Actually, Like the way that we sort of separate these things out is like, well, now's the time for racial justice.

We'll get to climate justice later. Where do you think these black lives are going to live if not on this planet?

Right?

You know what I mean? Like my problem hasn't.

Been and what else is threatening these black lives? Climate change, air pollution, environmental racism, Like it's all pandemic.

Yes, all of this it's the same shit. So like that, and it sort of felt like it kind of feels like you're always.

Like swimming upstream or like I don't know what the right metaphor is, but it really it feels like climbing the wall. You know, I'm honest, because I always feel like I have made this point, you know, like I write one essay and it's like all right, you kind of got it.

Then you write another essay and then you do something else.

And like, I can't figure out how to get the climate movement to like understand this that talking about one does not mean you stop talking about the other.

I don't. It's so frustrating.

And I think also I personally feel like I find myself in this position where I am kind of looked to in the climate movement as the climate movement's black friend.

Yeah, yes, and yes, yes.

Love y'all, but no, that is not that is not the service that I'm here to perform.

No fun another one.

But like, I've seen a lot of people circulating my Green Voices of Color list, which like, I actually hate the name of that list.

I just couldn't think of anything better.

But and it sort of seems like people think I created that list so that white people could then find people of color to find.

I created that list so people of color could.

Find each other. Actually that is why I created that list. I created that list because I felt lonely and I felt like a lot of you know, white folks were basically treating me like their black climate friend on Twitter.

And that was happening to lots of other people of color in the movement too, right, that like, yeah, greatment to.

Yeah, it's like, Oh, something racist happened, Mary, What do we do?

I be a fucking human try this.

So, yeah, it's been.

An awkward position. I'll talk more about it in this week's newsletter. But and it's just it's tough because this is a painful moment, like I'm actually it might be a teachable moment for other people, but right now for me, it is a painful moment. And I've had to take a step back from social media because it just became like this endless river of trauma porn and I can't

I've never been able.

To watch horror movies or you know, documentaries where people get hurt like I actually feel like it's happening to me, like I physically feel the pain. So that's one thing, But then you layer in that the people getting hurt are getting a hurt because they look like me, and should I leave my apartment that could easily happen to me. Also because I live in one of the cities where that's really you know, it's really serious right now, So it feels really different and I can't just like, I

Yeah. Yeah, well, and then on top of people texting you or people sharing their various takes, there's this, uh you know, I know you and I have talked about this, that there's this kind of like, excuse me, woke Olympics happening right now on.

So I would like to if I like to call it the wokies, the wokies.

Yes, yes, I like, I cannot watch any more white women lecturing each other to try to like prove how much more woke they are. It's just like guys, just yeah, honestly, like I do feel like well and this black Square thing too, Like you want to take a break from your self absorption, just shut the fuck up and get off social media for a day.

Then, you know what, that is very fy. You can do that for free, ninety nine totally free.

You might not get any credit for it, but it will actually help.

Or how strange it is to have white people tell you as a black person that Black Lives matter.

That is genuinely disorienting.

Yeah, because it's like, what did you think before? Did you think I didn't know that or did you not know that? Both of those things are disturbing and it's awesome. And also it's like I pisces.

Me off that it's like every time there's an example, like an extreme example of racism in this country, like police killing a black person in custody who is unarmed, which unfortunately there's been many examples of, but it's like every time there's this whole upswelling and all these hashtags and Twitter avatars and whatever. Yeah, and like if any of that did anything, then we wouldn't still be having that should happen, you know, right, Like right, I don't know.

Folks?

Yeah, yeah, be careful about the amount of pressure that you're putting on your black friends right now, because.

We're all like very clearly at a breaking point. We also don't want I've ranted about this on Twitter. We don't want to process everything with our white friends. Like we might love you and respect you and value you, but I don't want to process everything with my white friends.

I just don't write like there's.

I remember this actually when when Beyonce's Lemonade album came out, like that was a very big moment for black women, and I had so many white women friends being like wanting to talk to me about it, and I was.

Like, can I kick you back the fuck off? Or like after speaking on a panel.

And I know a lot of other women of color I've had this experience because I've heard them talk about it. You speak on a panel as a woman of color, and all of these white women are waiting for you as soon as you get off the stage, and they're like in tears about how much you move them and how much you talk them and blah blah blah blah blah, and you're just like, now, you got to console on me.

Now, you gotta put this bitch back together.

And on the other side of her as all these other women of color that you actually want to connect with, but they're trying to give you a moment, and I'm like, could you please bum rush her?

I think you are right, I.

Don't understand it, like they, like a lot of people think that they're reaching out to support you, but what they're actually doing is asking for emotional labor from you. And I just feel like people need to be way more careful about that.

Yeah, you know exactly.

Even if it's like I just want to make sure you're okay, or I just want this or whatever, it's just like, you know, I don't know, Yeah, just like be careful about asking for anything from the people that you're that you want to be helping.

I guess yeah.

Actually what I what I said is I get that you want your friend to know that you're there and that you care. Like I understand that, but it really makes a big difference if you say something like I don't expect you to respond yes, that makes such a huge difference. Just like to you, it's like, oh, one text, what's the big deal, I'm being a nice person.

I also apply that by seventy Yeah.

And then you get an idea of what I'm talking about here seventy emails, and now you have to respond to and get into like deep in your feelings about like how you're doing really and like, yes, separately process this extremely painful thing with seventy different people who who, by their own admission, could never understand.

Whereas I could.

Just go talk to like my cousins I've known my whole life and live the same experience as me, or like my college friends who you know, like I could talk to my black friends. Basically, It's what I'm saying here, like I don't have to process this with someone to whom I'm also having to explain what racism every day feels like.

Right right. I was thinking about it in terms of of like maybe maybe a helpful way for people to think about it would be like if your friend had a family member or close friend die, like you would send them this, like hope everything's okay. Don't feel obligated to respond right now, right Like.

I feel like people should take that approach right now, right and whatever.

You do, don't take it personally. Yeah, it's not about you. So if your friend doesn't respond.

Or if your friend like you know, says I just I literally can't deal with you right now.

It's not about.

You, Yeah, exactly exactly. I want to talk about a little bit more about sort of why it's so problematic that people are doing the like it's not time to talk about climate now, and how much that shows about how much farther we have to go for people to understand that these things are always interconnected and that they're just you know, one type of justice and that's it, and it's like, you know, worth talking about all the time, because mostly I'm seeing that sentiment from very well meaning

Also climate change and heat waves and hurricanes.

Actually makes police murders more likely because it makes all violence more likely. So like it is a threat multiplier, that's what that's what a threat multiplier means. So police brutality is an existing threat, climate change will multiply that by ten. And there that's yet another one of the reasons that we actually don't talk about about why Black people are more likely to be susceptible to climate change

I don't want to hear, actually, this is the climate march, and you're.

At the wrong march. Like, no, they're at the right fucking march. You just don't understand what justice.

Is, yes, exactly. Yeah, like the idea, I've heard some people say like, oh, you know, we shouldn't be having climate marches right now, it's not the right time, or like, you know, to put the climate strike on hold and whatever. It's like, no, this is it's always the right time. And again because we're out of time, because we're out of time, and these things are all different aspects of the same issue, which is a total lack of justice, you know.

Exactly exactly.

And I've also heard people being like, you know, how did we get here, And the answer is this is where we started.

Yeah exactly, we never been here.

We've always been.

We never moved.

So and that's also where you get a crisis like climate. It didn't just come out of carbon molecules that just you know, happen to wind up in the air.

Change is a was a preventable problem and is a solvable problem. The people and the structures that have prevented us from solving it are totally part and personal with colonialism, white supremacy, capitalism. It's it's power imbalance. It's like it's not a science problem, it's a power problem. And like, you know, I just I don't understand why that is still tough for people to get like, it's not it trust me, it is really not about figuring out energy storage.

They would have been extremely like, you know, rejecting it.

Yes, yes, yeah, So I'm glad that there are calls for climate groups to get out and march with but it's almost phrased as this, like let's do a favor.

Rights like charity work.

Yeah, and it's like then the now no, like these are all again, It's just it's all the same issue. It should be all the same groups of people fighting for it, right.

It's like.

They're like, yeah, we need to talk about black lives matter, so that means we can't talk about climate for a while, we have to put climate on ice. No, you don't, right, I have never even when I was talking about climate, I always talked about how black lives matter. I always talked about black issues because these are all my issues. I don't see a conflict in talking about you know, don't shoot me versus don't you know, kill me with the carbon magnifying glass.

If that exacts sense exactly, Yeah.

I don't know. I find it.

It's such a frustrating place to be, and it's like, no matter how many times I try to find the words, they never seem to penetrate that these are not separate things, right.

These kind of conversations and arguments have been had with people in the movement or even outside of it, who you know, are kind of quite conservative and are and make the argument that like, oh, you know, these justice issues are a distraction and it takes too long to solve social justice and all of that, and so's it's actually it's really frustrating and kind of surprising to see people who would never buy into that argument now making this,

I'm like, no, you too, Yeah, yeah, I thought we've been over this.

Yep, yeah yeah.

And I think it's because the climate movement has always sort of acted like they see themselves as being in this really professorial kind of position where they're like going to come in and teach other people. So like, I think the way that they see it is if we connect climate or if we talk about climate now, then we're going to be usurping the conversation.

Yes, we don't want to take up space, blah blah. But I feel like part of that is that is like seeing climate as a white issue too, you know exactly. They totays see it as I don't want to take up space, and it's like, uh, this isn't everyone issue. It's a justice issue. It's not like, in fact, it's only minimally a white issue.

Yeah, most people on the planet aren't white, surprise, surprise. But I think they always kind of see them.

The way that they can.

Issues is always like, oh, well, you're worried about, you know, police brutality. Actually you need to be worried about the polar bears because that's a bigger problem, right, Like they always have to trump, for lack of a better term, somebody else's problem, right, Like we saw this, we talked

Bigger than yours.

It's not really not necessary, right right, yeah, right, Like you can just connect the dots because they're not unconnected. They're damn near bleeding together.

Yeah yeah, so yeah, yeah, it's frustrating.

Okay, So in our full length episode, we are going to talk about this rising movement called the Boogloo Boys. They're actually not rising. They've been around for a long time terrifying.

They are terrifying.

And I found a few articles about it and I shared with Amy, and I terrified her. We're gonna talk about that, and we're also going to talk about the Boogaloo boys reminded me a lot of the vigilante groups that terrorize New Orleans after Katrina, and so I'm going to terrify Amy even more by making her read through

Yes, do it, This is gonna be good.

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