Welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. Back in twenty twenty one, we did a season of the podcast on the fossil fuel industry's turn toward plastic and petrochemicals as the thing that would save it as the world turned away from combustion engines. They have only leaned further into that plan over the last two years, but as we documented in our Plastic Pipelines season, grassroots activists have had a lot of success holding them off one ethane cracker
facility at a time. The Foremosa plant that was planned for Saint James Parish back then is still on hold now thanks to various legal complaints filed on behalf of local groups like Rise Saint James, whose efforts we profiled in that season. You can tell the organizers in Louisiana are getting it done because suddenly the industry is organizing against them. Last year, some serious money joined the petrochemicals fight when Bloomberg Philanthropy is committed eighty five million dollars
to the new Beyond petro Chemicals campaign. The campaign is focused on stopping the one hundred and twenty new petrochemical facilities proposed in Louisiana, Texas, and Pennsylvania. So suddenly a new advocacy group has emerged. It calls itself the Sustainability Council, and it's led by big oil companies and industry groups
and backed by local officials and chambers of commerce. The sustainability this council is interested in is the petrochemical industry's sustainability, so it's working hard to try to discredit local organizers and paint the push against petrochemicals and Louisiana's cancer ali
has an effort pushed by outsiders. I got a chance to speak with a couple of those organizers, Samirah Levine with Rye Saint James and Joe Banner of the Descendants Project last month about their ongoing work and what they think of this new challenge to it. That conversation's coming up right after this quick break.
My name is Shamira Levine Ormyra Levine either way, and I am the executive assistant at Rhys Saint James. I've been working with ry since twenty twenty. But I was born and raised in Saint James, so I have first and experience in cancer ally, and I grew up with these industries. And to give you a little bit of
background on Ridse Saint James. It is a faith based grassroots organization that was founded by my mom, Sharon Levian, that is fighting the expansion in the build of petro chemical facilities in Saint James Parish and in cancer rally in surrounded areas. The fifth district, where I'm from and where my mom still lives to this day, is overburdened with pollution from petro chemical facilities. In a ten mile radius.
There are twelve industries. The industries have used a lot of financial persuasion to get the local leaders and politicians to side with them, so we are fighting local leadership as well. They refuse to represent us instead they're choosing to represent the industries. The whole purpose of fighting these industries is so that we can have clean air, clean water, and clean soil. We want to play for our children
to be able to grow up and live in. And if you've never been to Saint James, I highly recommend it you come see it because it's over burden, but it's a sanctuary. It's beautiful and it's peaceful, and it's green, and it's lush, and it's a place that I look to retire at one day, and it's always going to be my home, and I want to go back to live there after we get all these industries out of Saint James.
I talked to your mom a few years ago, and I was so struck to learn about just how rural and agricultural Saint James was before all of these industries came in, and how not that long ago.
That was absolutely My grandfather was a farmer, so I had memories growing up going to his house and seeing the chickens eating eggs at the chicken coop so we can make breakfast, the cows, the goats, the bull that we were scared of, and also growing up a little girl eating the sugarcane that grew in the backyard, you know, just put peel that stalk all down and just sucking the sugar off of it.
It was like heaven.
I thought that I had the paradise of life in James with me, that I can just walk up to a tree and pull the fruit off, or walk in the backyard and eat a sugarcane. So it breaks my heart to see the condition that is in and it breaks my heart to know that the government and the leaders here know that this is going on, and they're choosing to allow it to continue.
That's what breaks my heart the most.
Yeah, that was very powerful. Mayra.
I love hearing you all talk about Saint James and my family. We were in Saint John the Baptist Parish, which is right on the border of Saint James Parish on the West Banks, and unfortunately we share a lot of the same history, the ruralness, the families and family names, and we also are part of cancer rally, so we struggle to fight against petro chemical as well. But Joe and I, how you got started was really our love
for Louisiana, our history and our hair. Our grandparents would babysit us as our parents, who actually worked for industry, were at work. We would come home and we would listen to our grandparents who loved to tell stories about life along the river and their history and talking about their grandparents and the folklore and the folk tales.
So we just had this real deep rootedness in the.
Community through them, like they made us feel so connected to the area that we're at.
It's in the country. I still live there by the way.
In my same little neighborhood, our village that was started by my great grandfather. So about one hundred or so years ago, my great grandparents bought land and my great uncle, their son, also bought land when he was fourteen years old. So through those land purchases, my family created a village and we were all able to live together. So our days as children were just spent running through the neighborhood, through the cane fields and the open area with our
cousins because we lived in like this sanctuary. Almost there's no such thing as immediate family. I like to say, like I never knew that term existed because our family was so big. You can never just consider your parents or your siblings as your immediate family because everyone is immediate to us. And it just offered us a way of support and sharing and nurturing and just also good times that you like.
That's part of the American dream that we hear about.
So having that lifestyle, having that connection made us really love our culture, and that led us into the tourism industry and tourism and our part of Louisiana is plantation tourism. So the best way to tap into our love of our area and our ancestry was through plantations, which is bittersweet that that's the way we have to access our history if we want to make a living through that, if we want to stay in that space.
But anyway, Joy and I like we did that.
We worked for Our first job that we had was at Laura Plantation. My ancestor descended from Laura Plantation, so we've started there. But it was the best African American history that I ever had was being on that plantation, Like I understood what it meant to be descended from
the enslaves and their intelligence and their skills. So I say that as a good thing but also kind of a bad thing that I had to go there at eighteen years old to get that history, the history that has not been allowed to our people.
It's been hard to access it because it's trauma, so.
You almost have to be buffered a little bit to kind of get that history. And ironic that it comes from a plantation. When a history is done better, you know, I'm not going to say it's always done the right way, but when it's done better, it can be cathartic and it could be educational. So that led us on to the being in the space of tourism, and Joy later
worked for Whitney Plantation as the director of Communications. I worked for a tourist commission in a River parish, so I was representing eleven different plantation halls in addition to other attractions. But being in that world, what it exposed me to was just how much Descendants were excluded from our own history and how we were not allowed to participate.
We were not given the same access and space that these plantations were given, and when we tried to like infuse our own narratives, our truths, we were shot down because it wasn't making money.
But in addition to tourism, what I saw was that tourism.
And heavy industry and the petrochemical companies are in bed together in the River Parish in Cancer rally. It's not an advocate for us, it's not an advocate for descendants, for the past or the futures. And we were getting eaten up by the policies of both right, one that was not giving us the space to have participation and contribution to own history, and the other one, you know, killing us and trying to run us off of our land.
So we started the Descendants Project to counter that it was really initially what it was first like, we want to be engaged in tourism, we want to have this und each other owned story, and we also saw it as a way that descendants can engage in a healthier industry. So if we're involved in this, we don't have to work in plants, we don't have to work in the industries that are killing us, and we can do something that speaks to our creativity, to our humanity and the
humanities of our communities. So that was what we wanted to do, knowing that environmental justice is part of the overall well being the descendant community. But as soon as basically six months within us starting our organization and starting to formalize, we then had to face a green terminal from Greenfulle Louisiana that's proposing to locate on the former grounds of Formosa Plantation.
So, because of zoning that happened thirty years.
Ago to facilitate for Mosa, Formosa didn't come, thankfully, although I hate that they're trying to locate to Saint James still, but they didn't come. But the land stayed zoned for Formosa, so that allows any heavy industry to come in histor reason why we have to now stop a grain terminal that causes a lot of pollution and it would destroy our community.
That's so interesting.
Thank you for sharing that both of you, and I'm really curious to hear more about this quote unquote sustainability council that has just started. What were these folks kind of doing before and how have they organized into this council to try to work against the work that you're both doing.
Well, what's infuriating to me is if you look at this council, there's a lot for example, the Tourist Commission that I work for. I don't know if the Tourist Commission will participate, but they are one of these people that's on the list, which is something that I've always.
Known about these through lines.
Right, So, now you have tourism that is fighting against the things that they're supposed to be protecting. But you know, the Paris presidents that ignore us, that refuse to meet with us, are now meeting and this other space they're talking about, you know, Mike Bloomberg and money from the outside quote unquote, which is ridiculous because if you think about Louisiana, the reason why Louisiana was made or was created was before for commerce, international commerce to make money
from other areas of the world. So the fact that they have the same people that will brag about international or interstate correct commerce on a daily you know, are now saying that this is a bad thing because it's somebody that is going against their interest and they shouldn't have any interest. We are the locals. We do try to talk to them. They ignore us. They ignore us, so you can't we are hyperlocal and they refuse to talk to us. So now they get mad at us
because other people listen. You know, when we gave them the opportunity to talk to us and they refuse, they now get mad because other people want to listen.
I agree with that.
Joe very Well said, I find the humorous almost that they do not want outside money coming in. However, these chemical plants are owned by foreign owners, so Formosta itself was is a Taiwanese project. So getting foreign funds is the name of the game when it comes to petro chemical industries. But I think that the sustainability console quote unquotes is worried about Bloomberg helping and shining light on this fight because of how successful his Beyond Coal campaign was.
It reduced seventy percent of the coal emissions and shut down all of the facilities except for one, if I'm not mistaken. So you know, when Bloomberg gets involved in something that's starts to campaign for something, you know things are going to change, there's going to be success. You know that he has the power and the authority to do it. And so I was very honored whenever he launched the Beyond petro Chemicals campaign and had my mom come and reverende would attend, and I intended as well
to watch this monumental moment. So of course, but listen, like Joe said, they wouldn't meet with us, so not as someone else is listening to us.
Now that's a problem, So you know it is what it is. Amy.
So have they not reached out to meet with any of the environmental groups directly.
No, and they never do interesting.
They meet with the parish council and the local leaders, and those local leaders do not represent the opinion.
Of the people.
And we have the fifth district councilman on tape saying that he knew that the community did not want Promosa to build there, but he's still voted yes for Promosa indirect conflict with.
What the community wanted.
But it shows you too when you have somebody like Mike Bloomberg and beyond Petro team come in and saying, Okay, well, you know here's money.
They don't want that money, that money is not good or that money is the wrong type of money. So it's not only just about money. Would It shows you it's about power, which is why we are.
You know what happens when you have a system that's so tied to slavery, it's still to this day it's still not enough of money.
Is that they want control of us.
And they hate the fact that we are showing them they do not have control of us, and neither does Mike Bloomberg. By the way, you know we are this is a person who wants to listen to us, and we listen to anybody if whether they donate a dollar or whether they donate eighty five million, We listen to everybody who listens to us. So you know, we love everybody who support us, and it should be no different with Mike Bloomberg.
Yeah, the grassroots groups there in the Gulf had some big victories pre Bloomberg funding, So I can see why they might be worried that with additional funding that gets stronger. But it's not like the only reason that your work is winning is because of this new money. Have you seen anything prior to this, you know, these messaging slides
and stuff being leaked. Did you notice anything coming out of this sustainability council where they were trying to push this messaging that like, oh, it's out of state elites that are trying to tell Louisiana what to do and that sort of thing.
Yes, I did.
We have an intern that's working for us and she's been, you know, researching and keeping an eye on it, and she came to.
Let me know, oh, there's a bunch of.
Different industries and people that represent industries that are saying they're forming a council to combat what we're doing. And I looked at her as she told me this, and she showed she pulled it up online and showed me some things they had put on social media, and I was like, this is so interesting, but it does not intimidate me whatsoever, because I feel like, this is my opinion. We want clean air, clean soil, clean water for our kids. To have a sustainable future. We want to be able
to live and breathe without illnesses and disease. We want what any parent will work for their child, their grandchildren, their great grandchild. So even the people that's working in these industries, we can relate on that same premise that you want to keep your job most likely because you want to be able to provide and make sure your kids have sustainable future and healthy that's what you want. We want the same things. What we're saying is we're
not against those industry workers. We're against the collution that's coming from the billionaires that own these facilities. That they own these facilities, they let it pollute and then they go on and leave and go back to their country or their city or their state. But most of the industry workers don't live in cancer rally, but the ones that do, you are facing the same problems that we have. The wind doesn't just blow at our house. The wind
blows all around and you cannot escape that. So we are not in opposition with the people that work in those industries. And I see the Sustainability Council and I think that it's a joke because you're trying to deny that we only want to live a healthy life, and I know that the workers there want to live a healthy life as well. We're a lot more similar than we are different, So I'm not phased by this. To me, it tells me that they're worried and that they're scared. Yeah,
and they're concerned about what we have going on. This fight was brewing up a long time before. My mom was lit up and decided to fight back. But now she has fought back, and now the power is with us. We have had victories. We have gotten fromosa's permits revoked by a judge in September of twenty twenty two. We have stopped South Louisiana Methanol from being able to build. We saw wandwaff for coming in, but only because we want to have a healthy environment for our kids.
That's it.
So if Bloomberg recognizes that and see the humanity in us, maybe they should try it well.
And I think Joe you said this earlier too, that you know the out of state money pushing this industry in Cancer Alley has been there for a long time. I don't know, it seems like a weird talking point to try to push are you seeing them try to need this talking point in the media. Is it working at all? Or how's the public responding? Is anyone actually taking this council seriously?
I will say that, And you know, I think with shamar made some really great points. But to add that, I think.
It's really it's it's racist to feel that. So you think about the victories that you know that.
That Shamira and her family and Sharon and Rise and you know, Sierra Club and and Earth Justice and all these groups have been working towards how much success they've had. But now this is Mike Bloomberg into the picture. Wow, we got to make a sustainability council.
Right, we were winning before, Right, we have our case.
We have a hearing tomorrow about the zwning on the land, you know, for the Grand Terminal. So all of the success, right, but only now they make a sustainability council when a
white man enters the picture in that way. So I think that's such a racist trope if you ask me that now our success will be tied to just this one person now, and not to say that these campaigns, campaigns don't help, and that we need we don't need the help but let's get credit where credit is due to the many people who have fought through all to get to the space to buy time, right to buy time, so that we do have this other layer to come.
But what I have noticed is that they're using sustainability as part of that title.
They knew what they were doing.
And also, like if you go to that websites, any of these companies websites, it looks like it's an environmental justice group.
It's totally green. There's like flowers everywhere. They have the lead so buried to where you look on.
The first two pages of their website and you really see more about the climate and the new processes that are making everything better. So they're very skilled at what they're doing when it comes to green washing.
I will give them that, But we're not falling forward.
And I think more people understand that this is a trojan horse and we know exactly what they want, which is they want to destroy us.
Is there anything that you guys are.
Planning to do to sort of like publicly address this. I know you're doing some media outreach. Is there any kind of campaign you're thinking of or you just kind of like, Eh, we don't need to because it's such a nonsense.
Well, we're always in the works of campaign and advertising. I have a feeling that they're going to do you know, a lot of media, a lot of advertising, and so we're preparing for that. We're preparing to dismantle their argument. We're preparing to show the hypocrisy that they are, and we're preparing to expose the projective that they're doing. Even
the name Sustainability Council is a joke. But as always, we know that we have to fight the politicians and the local leaders, and we know that we have to fight the people that's in the industries. But we also plan to connect with these workers. So let them know, you know, we're moms and dads and grandma's and grandpas that care about their kids and care about the environment and care the future.
I would like to add, in attempts to protect our area, we have been named West Bank of Saint John in Baptist Parish, which includes Wilace, has been named to the National Trust of Historic Preservation's most eleven most Endangered Historic Site for the country. So being on that list, it's kind of like, yeah, it's good to be on the list, but it is scary, but out of the three hundred and fifty sites that have been placed on that list,
only a handful have ever been lost. So the media attention and also like the historic preservation fight that we've been putting up, especially in regards to the Army Corps of Engineers and going through that process has been so helpful.
And also we want to let them know.
Like Joe said, with Bloomberg, we're so grateful for his help, but we've had victories before Bloomberg, so we're planning to continue to keep fighting. This is only going to add few to our fire. This only excites us and motivates us even more.
That's it for this time, Thanks for listening, and we'll see.
Time Drilled is an original Critical Frequency production. Our producer is Sarah Ventry. Sound design, mixing and mastering are by Peter Duff, who also wrote our original score. Our First Amendment Attorney is James Wheton at the First Amendment Project, and the show is recorded, written, and hosted by me Namy Westervelt